Gamers don't want to sacrifice 60fps for 3D - Peter Moore

EA sports boss Peter Moore has claimed that gamers would rather keep games at 60 frames per second than play them in 3D.

Speaking to CVG, Moore said that he didn't believe gamers wanted to "sacrifice" a higher frame rate for 3D.

[Gandalf]

And yet some games can't even retain the 30 fps in 2D. Isn't that right Epic?

[DoucheVader]

http://www.insomniacgames.c...

Insomniac did a study about this already.

[DatNJDom81]

You know he quit smoking?

[nveenio]

I would take the 3D at 30fps because I think the level of immersion for 3D at 30fps would far outweigh the immersion given from 2D at 60fps.

[NYC_Gamer]

most games on console are 30fps anyway

[pixelsword]

aye, most people don't admit that.

[edhe]

Hence the problem - you'd end up with 15fps games in 3d.

[Gue1]

What I can't understand is why games like Killzone are 30FPS locked but now all of a sudden they can do 3D that is basically the same thing as 60FPS? Then they must be sacrificing something to achieve that stupid 3D effect nobody cares about cus you have to use glasses to see it... Killzone 3 in 60FPS would have been something to behold.

[dosgrtr]

sacrifices resolution in 3d mode

[raztad]

Dunno about sacrifices. I'm expecting the game to be 720p. KZ3 is the game that will make buy a 3DTV set. The last previews from TGS sound incredible promising.

[dosgrtr]

killzone 3 is native 720p in 2d but drops down the res in 3d

[CobraKai]

Doesn't it have to cut the resolution in half or something to support 2 images. I think I would rather have 720p than 3D for the most part but 3D does look fun.

[peowpeow]

Good thing they give us options :)

[8-bit]

Gue maybe if you bought yourself a PS3 maybe you wouldn't sound so bitter.

[edhe]

Very few people actually think that current 3d tech is the way forward.

[koehler83]

I don't know. 3D in sports games seems to make an awful lot of sense to me. Though I can't disagree that 60 frames is also important in that genre as well.

[Nihilism]

Agreed, but console games only run at 30 so this is irrelevant for 99.999999999999999% of the people on this site, if I had to choose a console game at 30 frames with no choice of 3D or 30 frames with a choice of 3D i'd take the choice. But if it was a multiplat and 3 3d version clearly had degraded performance or visuals, I would choose the non 3D version.

Lucky I get all options...non image loss with or without 3d + 60 frames :D PC gaming ftw.

[koehler83]

How was that last Madden game on PC?

[Letros]

Madden 2008, and its STILL the same game today, thank god for roster updates.

[Nihilism]

I wouldn't know even if it did come to PC, I don't play $#!+ games.

Have is sub HD with 55FOV, noaa 30 frames with drops down to 20, screen tearing and linear gameplay and DLC treating you. How was AVP, BFBC2, Dirt 2 etc in DX11 for you?

Or what about Starcraft 2, Civ 5?

I was gaming in 1600x1200 in 2003, you need to like catch up and stuff.

[likedamaster]

Such a braggart dchalfont! Fair comment though(the first one).

[insomnium]

This second reply shows exactly the kind of person dchalfont is. So mighty and powerfull indeed.

[koehler83]

@dchalfont

Dude, you act like owning a console and PC are mutually-exclusive.

Sensible people choose their platform(s) based on the games they want to play. Fanboys do it the other way around.

[Seferoth75]

Maaden? LMAO you had to pull up a POS game that is the same every year and PC people arent stupid enough to support the same game every year.

Must be a Sony fan. Only they would say something that stupid

[DaBadGuy]

Yeah I don't want 3D if it's going degrade the quality of the game. I've been gaming in non-3D since NES, I'm used to it.

Just curious, what kind of setup have you got? I've got an Asus G73JH laptop. Had it for about a week now and so far it's great. I probably could have gotten a desktop but I wanted something I could take around.

[Nihilism]

I spent a fair bit on my PC. If you want to get a PC and do it right, you don't buy a PC just for gaming, you incorporate the gaming parts when you buy a new PC every 5 years or so...it's a lot cheaper.

The next generation of CPUs are coming next year and I can't recommend upgrading now. Also the 'refresh' video cards from both ATI and Nvidia are coming next year, a good upgrade is an informed one, and this is a bad time to buy.

[pixelsword]

To be honest, Moore just doesn't want to put the resources of EA into researching this to be used company-wide at this time. If it blows-up and the sets become cheap overnight, I'm almost certain that he would change his tune.

And the PC has 3d games? I didn't know that. Sweet!

[Letros]

Plenty, PC pioneered 3D gaming.

http://www.nvidia.com/objec...

[edhe]

So you'd like the option of 15fps in 3d. or 30fps in half res?

No - you'd then moan it was half-assed.

[corroios]

Wait 60 frames games in HD. Im happy when they are locked at 30 frames and at least at 720p. This dude doesnt know what is talking about.

[yippiechicken]

Maybe I misunderstood, but are you saying Peter Moore doesn't know what he's talking about?

[masterg]

@yippiechicken

That is exactly what he is saying and I agree 100%.

People are worried about 3D making their games worse than they could have been. This is not what is happening. In fact 3D games are way more optimized simply because all the extra power that is being used to make it 3D.

This means the 2D version is running way better than it would have if it was not for 3D. We have already seen this in games. After Super Stardust went the 3D the 2D version got way smoother simply because the code had been optimized for 3D.

I for one am excited about 3D games. I can not wait to play a great 3D racer. The people who wants the play it in 2D can be happy because it is running even better than it would have if it wasn't for 3D.

[Ares84PS3]

MS doesn't need blu-ray, MS doesn't need 3D, MS doesn't need first party studios. It's just so funny.

MS is like a 13year old little boy who's friend got cooler stuff than he does so he sais that he doesn't need that anyways.

360 fanboys, I understand that you like your console and there is nothing wrong with that but to call 3D an blu-ray usless and stupid is just tells us (normal people) who ignorant and foolish you are. You guys are those old grumpy man who argued that color TV isn't needed.

So how about stop hateing on progress and actually try and embrace it.

One thing I learnd in my 25years on this Earth is that people will bash things they can't afford.

[DEA Fresh]

But either way Xbox doesn't have any of those thing you listed and they're doing pretty good. So obviously they don't NEED them.

[Ares84PS3]

..all we need is water and some food to survive. Why all these luxuries??

[yippiechicken]

Yeah, that whole 25 years on this earth has given you a lot of insight and experience.

:)

[Ares84PS3]

But what I said is true.

You can laugh all you want. Just shows your character.

[yippiechicken]

Dude, just having fun!
Did you see the little -> :) <- I put on there?

Oh, and by the way, you seem a little angry? Not everyone is going to have the same wants and likes as you. When you say other people are "ignorant and foolish" just because they don't have the same views as you, it seems like you should try opening your mind a little bit more.

Don't forget, this gaming "hobby" we have chosen is supposed to be about having fun. :)

[edhe]

Funny how you mock all these things they don't "need" yet their strategy is solidly pounding Sony and now even beating nintendo.

Oh shiznit - guess you're utterly wrong.

The problem with embracing progress is that it's not always the right thing to embrace. IE 3d glasses, IE massive data medium when data product delivery stops using media. Do you really want to wear glasses to watch the screen? buy a half dozen pairs fro the family and friends? Do you think that companies are going to be pushing out millions of BD in the future when they can just publish it once to an online service and make even more profit?

The tech might be cool, it might be revolutionary but it's not the way the market's progressing. It's temporary at most, and folly at the least.

NB i love my BD, but if i get digital delivery over fibre that hits 50mbs then even a bd can't match that bitrate - i'll take convenience over hard copy any day.

[Bordel_1900]

So where's the list of EA games running at 60fps on console?

[rdgneoz3]

He probably meant to give another quote saying gamers don't care about 60 fps in his games, which is why they do only 30.

[Pandamobile]

Don't the sports games run at 60 FPS?

[jaosobno]

"Gamers don't want to sacrifice 60fps for 3D"

Says console that can't do it properly.

[edhe]

He's at EA, not xbox.

[divideby0]

CVG is really turning into one of the worse trashy gaming sites...
I NEVER give them a click...

[Sprudling]

I want both, and I hope this will be common next generation.

30 fps for shooters is just bad. It might work when people are stuck with using a controller, but in fast paced games on the PC it's impossible to play optimally with such low fps. Back in the days of Quake 30 fps was laughable. Even 60 fps was considered sub-par. Most played at 85, 100 or 120 fps.

[lightningsax]

I'm a stickler for framerate in certain types of games, especially those that really need precision when a lot is going on - arcade racing games do well at 60, great combo-based action games (DMC3, Bayonetta when it's working), platformers with a ton of enemies/stuff going on (Ratchet series). I also like the more cartoony games running at that speed - it's a bit like having smooth animation in an animated series. Joe Danger works really well with this. Also, shmups can do very well at a smooth framerate. Einhander immediately comes to mind (and when on earth is that going to be on the US PSN?)

Some genres just don't need it. I don't care that FFX was 30fps - I'm making menu decisions, it's okay. Shadow of the Colossus was pretty darn slow, but the decisions you were making were more calculating and slower-paced, so that was fine. I didn't even mind the constant 20-or-so that Zelda: Ocarina of Time ran at, the gameplay was appropriately paced for it. Third-person shooters running at 30 are totally fine with me, also. It looks a bit more cinematic (that framerate's very similar to the framerate used in most films), and that's important in those types of games.

What I don't like is when drops and skips in framerate get in the way. Ninja Theory is absolutely awful at this so far (just played the Enslaved demo, can you tell?), and Platinum learned their lesson with giving Sega the Bayonetta port for that same reason. 3D shouldn't be a huge sticking point versus 60fps, because it's a matter of necessity for the game. Some games don't need 60fps at all, but they need to at least be good at the framerate they're at. 3D games should be made for 3D gaming, not just a tacked-on, stupid, and ineffective gimmick.

So long as the game's made well for what it is, neither should be a requirement. Come on, EA, you've been around for a while. It's all about quality.

[Sprudling]

Films are captured with cameras and will have natural motion blur. Animated movies are prerendered with motion blur.

Just having bad fps won't make a game look like a movie. You need motion blur, and doing high quality motion blur in real time is so gpu/cpu intensive that the devs might as well just ramp up the fps instead for a better experience.

[lightningsax]

Cool. Thanks for the input, that makes a ton of sense! I guess an alternative would be hardware companies getting their butts in gear and starting on those new consoles, so we could support better motion blur with hardware instead of just compromises.

I also wouldn't categorize a constant 30fps game as having a "bad" framerate, but it works for some games and doesn't for others - 60 doesn't always work either. Cinematic 30fps games just remind me more of watching a movie, since that framerate is a bit closer to what you'd see at a movie.

[futurenana]

No, most gamers don't actually know what frames per second, is.

[pixelsword]

Ooh, ooh, I do!

It's how many glasses you need to put on per second to see the game stand still!

Right?

;D

[lightningsax]

They don't know what a lot of vocab words are, but that doesn't mean they don't understand the difference. When I was a youngster, I had no clue why some polygonal games ran more smoothly than others.

Then, of all games, Battle Arena Toshinden 3 showed me the light. You could toggle an option that dumbed down the graphics in order for it to work at 60FPS - otherwise it was 30. When I did that, it hit me - so that's why these games move differently!

So it'll definitely affect players across the age/intelligence board, but I can only speak for my preferences, and I clearly noticed the difference before I knew the terms.

[cliffbo]

super stardust 3D mode of the game running 720p at 120fps (60fps per eye)

check it out
http://blog.eu.playstation....

but does it matter if a game is running at 30fps as most games run at that on the 360 and you dont get people complaining about it so why complain when it is on the ps3.

[divideby0]

I cant take a lot what he says to heart...since we know where he comes from

Sure EA rather continue to milk a games engine (Madden choke) vs investing into something new like 3D

[tacosRcool]

I like getting 60 fps on my PC when I play games so I would like it when I get 60 fps on my PS3. More frames = smoother gameplay == more fun

[despair]

A lot of people don't even know if the game they're playing is running 60fps or 30fps unless they're told, sure it sucks sometimes to have lower fps but its not that bad, especially considering the rendering and quality output from 30fps can be higher than 60 with the same system capabilities. As for 3d, I really don't care and won't until it becomes financially viable and loses those ridiculous glasses.

[PickAShoe]

3D is an option. am i right?

[whitesoxfalife]

stop hatin on 3D dammit its the future of gaming on consoles i just got to get a pair of glasses for my tv in which it cost 400 for two pairs and the mitsu adapter and im good to go whether on ps3 or 360 bitches!!!!!!!!

[Xfanboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[gypsygib]

He's very right. I don't want to sacrifice FPS for better textures even. Or AA.

I say make a game look as good as possible up until the point the graphical negatively effect how it runs. Every game can and should run smooth with no jaggies, if it can't lower the details.

[theonlylolking]

Most gamers dont care about FPS unless they are PC gamers.

[imvix]

PC gamers happen to be more inline with how tech works, Console gamers on the other hand well most of them on this site anyways blindly believe what they are told.

Its only natural people who are aware will point out when they see something working in a sub par way.

[Ri0tSquad]

"Most gamers" don't even know what 3D gaming looks like or what FPS is. And sacrificing FPS the reason why people don't want it? I'm pretty sure it's the price for the set up and 3D content available as of now. The ramifications of having 3D enabled in games should be worth it, or it's poorly implemented IMO.

[tiamat5]

Awwww!!!! That's so sweet. Every third party developer and console company is so concerned about Sony these days. That is so cute.Well i think that Sony is a big boy now and old enough to decide what path they want to take with their technology. If they listened to what everyone they wouldn't have the PS3 Slim, the Move or be catching up with Microsoft by only a few million or have the epic first party games we have now. Why don't you just concentrate on your own companies and stop acting like Sony is some newbie company that needs all of you to tell them what to do.No one asked your advice. Let us decide what we want to sacrifice.

[hesido]

Just check out the Lucas Arts 60frames star wars demo video. The difference is night and day. I'd take slightly less detailed 60fps over 30 fps anytime of the day. (I say slightly less).. Even people who says they cannot tell the difference can actually tell. They just don't know what causes the difference, but 60 fps will be perceived as smoother in any game that the camera pans, or where there is fast movement.

[Captain Tuttle]

Don't talk Peter when none of your games can do either.

[writersblock]

I cant tell the difference between it and 30 unless I really pay attention

I can easily notice the difference between 2D and 3D though

[zaherdab]

i didn't know what i didnt want to sacrifice untill i read your statement MR peter ... thanks thas so awesome

[tenmohican]

would sacrifice 60 fps for 3d. Motorstorm Pacific Rift 3d for example.

ie wiki

The game has been generally well-received by critics, with an average review score of 87% on Metacritic and 82.45% on GameRankings. IGN gave the game 8.9, praising strong graphical component, and calling the game "a worthy follow-up to one of the PS3's early must-have titles."

GameSpot praised the number of well designed tracks in the game as well as its multiplayer element both online and offline though it criticized the inconsistent handling of the vehicles. 1UP.com praised the level of improvement the game achieved in comparison to the original game, notably the game's new "awe-inspiring" landscape as well as the improved aggressive A.I. competitors, it also praised the game's seamless transitions through various in-game environments such as jungles and beaches rather than just the monotonous desert of the first game

[gcolley]

that is BS. gamers without a 3D TV don't want to sacrifice 60fps.

[Darkfiber]

3D is a stupid pointless gimmick. I'd rather have a smooth running game than a headache.