Will Microsoft Introduce A New Console Next Generation?

Blip74 with GamesOnSmash points out a few alarming details of Microsofts gaming division and asks the question, "will Microsoft introduce a new console for the next generation?"

[KingKionic]

Yes....

But im having too much fun already...hmmm

[Shadow Man]

Xbox720 with blu-ray, and natal built in.

With gear of war 3, and Halo Chronicles at launch. This would make the biggest launch in gaming history!.

[Mo0eY]

I'd laugh so hard if it came out with a blu-ray player. The next PS would already have won the next-gen console war.

[-MD-]

How exactly would a bluray player on an xbox win Sony a generation? I'm very interested to hear what you have to say.

[Mo0eY]

Royalties, guy. For every single blu-ray disc that's sold, say a penny goes to Sony. You're looking at a fat chunk of change to Sony which they'll do a turn-around and could possibly push this into their first and second party companies. This money could allow the first parties to do whatever they please. In time, developers will see what privileges Sony has given their first party and will want to work on that system. Sure enough, the next Playstation will skyrocket with first-party exclusives and the lead platform to be developed with.

This is just one example and a fairly overblown one at that, but something along these (very loose) lines could happen.

Regardless, M$ paying Sony for blu-ray discs would be funny. It'd be like the Sega Dreamcast paying Nintendo to use their N64 game cartridges.

[Shadow Man]

In that case what do you have to say about sony laptops using Microsoft OS?

Think before you answer.

[-MD-]

You do know there's like 15 companies that all take a chunk of the pie from blu-ray right? The money Sony would get from a Microsoft blu-ray wouldn't be notable at all.

You don't see Sony folding over with Microsoft's OS in every single one of their computers do you?

[El Botto]

And yet every xbot wants a Blu Ray player add on for the shiat60 or for the heater720?

What happened to "digital downloadz will take ova by the endz of 2008orz"? You bots are a joke.

Btw youre not getting Blu Ray anyway.

[-MD-]

I already have a bluray player that I've used a total of 1 times to watch the dark knight.

While I doubt the 360 will bother with bluray the next xbox will have bluray guaranteed.

"shiat60 or for the heater720" - Nice insults are you twelve?

[Sez]

360 owners don't want a blu-ray add on. nor do we care for one to be in the next xbox. if we did want one. we would just buy it. they cost less than what the ps3 is now. matter of fact you could probably get 2 for the price of a ps3. why do you think that ps3 sells have been in a decline lately.

if anything sony would hope that MS and nintendo would put a blu-ray player in their system for next gen. to recoop the money they are losing this gen. and IMHO blu-ray hasn't really done much for this gen. it's not like they are making games longer/mutli-plats better. i mean since blu-ray hold so much space. why are only the graphics benifitting from the disk. and not the lenth of a game.or make mutli-plats better on the ps3.

[Stryfeno2]

So what if MS use Blu-ray on the next Xbox...That will be another feature added to the Xbox brand.

Sony needs MS to help with the PS4 OS...If they don't, the PS4 will be another fiasco like the PS3.

[AngryTypingGuy]

Vega, you're right, I don't think a lot of Xbox owners care about a Blu-Ray add-on for the 360, I know I don't. But make no mistake, the next Xbox needs Blu-Ray or some other format that allows for mass amounts of data storage comparable to Blu-Ray. The 360 can survive for the rest of the gen on DVD9, even if some games are multi-disc. But next gen, the graphics will be so great that the amount of storage on DVD9 won't cut it.

Of course no one has to worry about that. The next Xbox is pretty much guaranteed to come with a Blu-Ray or something new and comparable.

[darthv72]

I can actually see the next generation of consoles going back to the ways of solid state storage. No moving parts will produce less heat and require less power. It would also be less costly to produce. Currently the capacity is the issue. Flash memory can only hold so much while hdd is increasing dramatically.

Using magnetic media like hdd would still require moving parts but would hold far more amounts of data and allow for faster streaming of the data to memory. Optical will remain for a while longer mostly for movies but I can even see sony turning to higher capacity faster storage mediums. They have shown their interest in DD by the simple act of making games and movies downloadable. They will evolve to bigger games like what MS will be offering.

I guarantee if it was sony offering games on demand it would be heralded by the masses as revolutionary. Because it is MS it gets criticism.

We evolve from carts to optical only to go back to "carts" in some form or another.

[drdistracto707]

what happened to "Blu-ray is worthless"

hmmm?

[ShabzS]

... but not too soon i hope 360 is doing pretty good ...

and they do have plans for the 360 its not like they are just sitting around waiting for games from third party.... they are expanding xbox live to great lengths year over year and with project natal they are heading into new areas ... think of the bigger picture blogger...

[pixelsword]

-The 360 should be hunkering down with Natal being an addition to the 360 which may include additional capabilities itself to keep the price down so sales can continue

-The PS3's cell processor is still comparable to the FPGA and GPU's coming out now in terms of performance, so the PS3 could get away with stretching out

-Nintendo is the only company poised to take over newer tech and "start over" with a HD version of the Wii.

But they won't.

- Likely Microsoft will come out with a newer console and drop the price of the 360

- Likely Sony will bring out the PS3 slim and keep the PS2 on the market.

- Likely Nintendo will Drop the Wii to the cheapest console of all (under $50) and come out with a reasonably priced Next gen console (or NOT reasonably priced, depending on what junk they add in their assumptions of what they think they need to add to their console)

[indysurfn]

Yeah Microsoft is doing great! They did make a profit for the last two years. Isolating one last quarter where they had a one time charge relating to NATAL is not a reason to be concerned. Instead of Microsoft hindering NATAL support, and charging for the development kits for it, they simply eat the cost as a one time charge. They simple sent out development kits to all developers that had a regular development kit at no additional charge(they did announce this at E3!). Sounds to me like that is a move you only make when your in it for keeps. I can see it now, we have made money for the last two years we don't want to play anymore, here Nintendo, and Sony you can have our share we was just kidding around the last two generations, our bad! We don't want to play video games anymore. We lost money that one quarter that we revealed NATAL, and the cost associated with it to our share holders, and customers. It scared us! I mean come on, we only made 3.99 BILLION DOllARS with a B that Quarter. We could hardly afford to buy Sony with that small profit!

[LiL T]

@SakO'sh!t .....what is that question suppose to be in english?

on a serious note: Don't we have enough of these stupid speculation's every 5 minutes. Should you not be reporting on oh I don't know GAMES.

[kaveti6616]

Let me show you a diagram that will change your life.

[ShabzS]

haha.... lol... that was awesome

[LiL T]

LOL thats a good pic. If you are talking about sak, then I understand jokes better when written in proper english. If your talking about the article, I didnt get to read the full thing because my piece of wood ps3 web browser keeps freezing on that site and I refuse to turn on my mac because my apartment is already hotter than a mofo. If the article was a joke, thats cool but the headline is wack. I really don't want to see a new xbox next year because I want to buy one this year and not have to buy another next year.

I still believe there is alot left in both consoles. Why woul either one show all thier cards if they have long term plans. The ps2 is way better now than it was 8 years ago, imagine 360 & Ps3 5 years from now. Alright im tired of typing with the controller now.

edit: oh yeah if it was about sak then I ended up with "It probably was not a joke"

[callahan09]

@ Kaveti6616:

But where do you go once you've determined that it wasn't a joke? The chart just ends there and doesn't lead to the "Get On With Your Life." So I suppose I'm not supposed to get on with my life just yet, but what's the next step? Oh no!

[PS360PCROCKS]

Uh-oh Kaveti I can't let my fiancee see that chart. She would say I need it badly. She tells me something, I say it's not funny, she tells me it was a joke and to get over it. Haha too perfect.

[sak500]

Lil tiny brain guy i'm sorry for my comment as your tiny brain couldn't comprehend the irony in it. So only way i can express my appologies is by PMing you.. Sorry about the blatant use of F words in the PM.

[LiL T]

AWWW! Did I offend you little boy. Ya your pm shows your maturity level, seriously is that the best you come up with. I could care less how much you use the mofo and F word, you are still a little douchesak hiding behind a keyboard in you gay dads basement. If you look at Kaveti's flow chart there you would always end up with " GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE SON". If you are going to take the time to pm me take your time and come up with something at least half good. Thanks for trying though, have a nice day and maybe your dad's can help you out next time. I guess thats why your so butt hurt, two dads would do that to you I guess.

[The-Director]

The big three knows the huge future of gaming, it's the entertainment of the future, so no matter how much loses they're making now they're all in it for the long run with their eyes on the prize, and the fact is like almost evrey thing in live, we need competition, it's good for us consumers.

[Why dis]

*720 this!, 720 that!.
*360 is doomed this!, 360 is fail that!.
*360/natal super console will screw owners this!, natal+360 master console will fuc* most owners of the old console that!.
*360 will have blu-ray this!, 360 will need blu-ray that!.

See the pattern? if you don't all the speculation has to do with wishing the 360 was out on the market making up fud hoping MS loses or leaves this generation so it won't be in second place.

[Rusco87]

2 years im guessing, that will just be its annoucement at E3 2011 release date of late 2012 or early 2013

[CharlesDCI]

The only thing about Blu-Ray in a 720 is this. Blu-Ray is heavily associated with Sony. It would be like a PS4 operating off of windows. Sony doesn't own Blu-Ray, but has heavy ties in it.

[-MD-]

From what I read they're involved in blu-ray by less than 8%.

[El Botto]

2) it doesnt matter what the % is because when they say no, not one company is going to say yes.

So keep on dreaming.

[-MD-]

Actually they would all say yes.

Toshiba supported HD-DVD and they're supporting blu-ray now.

Apple
Dell
HP
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.

And no the figure was pretty much 8%

[sak500]

So it means sony will be only be selling their Laptops and pcs with Linux or MAC OS right ?

[Jdoki]

Of course they will - the question is...

What will the specs be.

Nintendo's success at iterating existing tech has worked very well for them.

I would anticipate that both Sony and MS will come out with similar hardware in the next gen to their current consoles. We're already seeing smaller graphical gains in each generation jump, so adding value for the customer, and ensuring profitability for the manufacturer will be key in the next cycle.

It seems a no-brainer for Sony to chuck a couple more Cell's and a newer Nvidia card and a bit more RAM in to the PS4 and it's good to go. This may be iterative (and therefore ensure backwards compatibility), but adding another Cell or two would significantly increase performance for not a lot of cost. They could potentially remove the Nvidia GPU and defer all rendering to the Cell's, but I'm not sure this is a great idea (but was in the original PS3 project plan).

MS have a slighlty longer or more difficult path as their tech (and this is no disrespect) is a little 'older'. MS will need to think carefully whether they need to fit a Blu-Ray drive to the next Xbox - or if the market truly is ready for a 100% download model for games.

I have a feeling MS may go with the newer Intel technologies such as Larabee for the next Xbox - but it's hard to say. I'm not sure adding any more Xenon's would do the trick as the CPU landcape - with GPGPU's and 'Cell style' architectures seem to be gaining momemtum.

I don't see either MS or Sony doing anything radical in terms of hardware/architecture in the next jump (not as raidcal as the change from PS2 to PS3 architecture anyway).

[indysurfn]

How is Microsoft's 'tech' older? Didn't you know it was based OFF the CELL PROCESSOR that IBM built for Sony, AFTER IBM finished the PS3 specs? That is why Sony feels betrayed by IBM. They just slightly changed the CPU, and tweaked it to have more transistors, and made it have THREE CORES instead of one with 6 functioning relatively very small helper SPE's? Just because one came out after the other does not make it a newer design, get your facts straight. Heck the Cell has been out before the ps3 in the exact same form, in non consoles! The thing is most hardware is going the way of the multi cores, not the multi SPE's. Look at Intel, and AMD. http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blo...

[Jdoki]

Specifically I was thinking of DVD (which is limiting games like Rage) and low capacity hard drives (which would need adressing if MS want to go 100% download) and the swing towards GPGPU and Cell style architecture.

Yet you get all defensive about the CPU! Lol!

The 360 is more traditional in it's design - no bad thing - but the landscape is changing, which is exactly why I mentioned that MS might have a more difficult path to design their next console.

Get my facts straight? Why not try engaging people in a discussion rather than immediately jumping to the defense of one small piece of inanimate electronics!

[siren]

To start, the author of the article takes Microsoft's earnings information completely out of context.

If the other had bothered to perform his research into MS's earnings statements, he would have discovered that the Xbox360 and related products are actually doing quite well and that the loss in E&D and primarily be attributed to Headcount increases in the Windows Mobile Device Platform group.

In addition, Microsoft calls out decreased costs of revenue (hence progress toward profit or increase in profit on the platform) associated with Xbox360.

http://www.microsoft.com/ms...

"Research and development expenses increased $252 million or 16%, primarily reflecting increased headcount-related expenses associated with the Windows Mobile device platform, driven by recent acquisitions. Cost of revenue decreased $326 million or 7%, primarily due to decreased Xbox 360 platform costs."

If Microsoft hadn't ramped up WinMo development efforts, E&D would have seen a profit of roughly $122 Million. Given that they also call out Zune and PC hardware having massive decrease in revenue, those likely cost the E&D division additional profit potential. When they do call out Xbox revenue decrease, they point out the price drop and also mention that Xbox Live revenue increases offset most of the 360 price drop revenue decreases for the quarter. They do not make any related assertion for Zune of PC Hardware out of E&D

"Revenue from our non-gaming business decreased $292 million or 12%, primarily reflecting decreased Zune and PC hardware product revenue."

While Microsoft did layoff approximately 5,000 employees in the past 6 months, very few came out of E&D, thus while revenue has decreased, operating expenses have not dropped nearly as much. In the case of WinMo, they increased drastically.

All in all, what this means is that Xbox is doing fabulous. One could argue based on the data provided, that without Zune and PC Hardware wrapped into E&D with Xbox, that you could have seen profits from Xbox360 upwards of a $600 Million profit for just Q4 FY'09.

While it makes a nice headline to twist and turn a companies financial statement to your preferred platform's benefit, it does a great disservice to the community and your own reputation to do so.

[commodore64]

well said!

[DoctorXpro]

If the next xbox dosen't have any RROD, Im in.

[reddevilyi]

All systems have hardware failure...

[Syronicus]

Sorry, but comments like that are simply flame bait. Not needed at all.

As for the article in question... Does a bear crap in the woods?

[JayX666]

What if said bear is in a zoo?

[commodore64]

what if said bear can't see the woods for the trees in the zoo?

[creeping judas]

Sorry but that is the most retarded question I have ever seen??

- no next generation they are going to introduce the 1st gen xbox
- no next generation they are going to introduce the saturn
- no next generation they are going to start building cars and jump out of the console market

For flocks sake, of course they are going to introduce a new console when ever the "next" generation starts!!!

If these so called journalists had any sense, the title would be more thought provoking like "when will MS introduce their next gen console?"

[keysy420]

M$ lost last generation and right now whil they are enjoying a second place they arent moving or pushing the gap instead its closing. M$ cannot afford to loose this generation. with the replacement of the rrod they have lost over a billion dollars and that number continues to climb.
Sorry xbots fan but natal wont drive sales it will be a fun gimmick but like the wii without hardcore titles and integration that is seamless the people who buy most of your titles will surely not.

To me it seems like xbox in a way fu1ked the game industry.they started charging all this extra crap everything on the 360 cost even batteries.
then they brought a half done system with design flaws. that is just bogus as hell right their. (the stamp of american products).
plus they dony make blu- ray or bigger disk. this is also jacked up.
do you kno whow good games would be if they were on the ps3 only. the games would be huge and less need to keep buying dlc to keep content fresh.
Xbox live the best part about his service is that you can talk to people while playing which this software would be a great addition to the ps3 also. But instead its filled with a bunch of kids that parnets need to wash there mouth out with soap.

It just doesnt make sense why sony and m$ is competing when M$ could just be ranking in the cash from software. instead of losing trying to compete with sony in a game that say whatever you want but sony is winning right now.

Sony is winning because the cheapest ps3 cost 400 and alot of you out there are praying on a price cut. as long as sony doesnt cut the price they stil got you in their corner like it or not. so their for until the xbox starts to show more promise that it can sellat the rate of the ps3 dont plan on a price cut.

The reason why you hear CEO's trying the get sony to pric cut is because they want a hundred million systems out their. They dont really see this happening with M$.So M$ is great for them right now but they all know most people are going to buy ps3 when they can afford it.

Sony was smart introducing the ps3 with a 10 year plan and hard tech. this is hypothetical totally but ask your self this if natal is a failure, not meaning it doesn't sale but it doesn't push systems,the software that comes out could be better, doenst have lasting appeal. should m$ hang it up right their.
Pride may get in the way but i think it would be time to call it quits. 2 losses this far in the game just can't happen

[-MD-]

"Sorry xbots fan but natal wont drive sales"

With the hype Natal is receiving from the media you can bet your ass it'll drive sales.

"even batteries." - since when were batteries free?

"do you kno whow good games would be if they were on the ps3 only." - Haze.

"the games would be huge and less need to keep buying dlc to keep content fresh. " - Killzone 2 has 3 DLC packs.

"It just doesnt make sense why sony and m$ is competing when M$ could just be ranking in the cash from software. instead of losing trying to compete with sony in a game that say whatever you want but sony is winning right now." - Market share. You're obviously young or stupid for asking this question. Sony hasn't "won" anything.

"most people are going to buy ps3 when they can afford it." - You could that this about literally anything on the planet.

"The reason why you hear CEO's trying the get sony to pric cut is because they want a hundred million systems out their." - No the reason you hear CEOs complaining to cut the price is because the PS3 install base is small compared to that of the 360 and Wii.

You need to learn the difference between (there) and (their) seriously.

"2 losses this far in the game just can't happen" - Were you not around for the Nintendo 64 and the gamecube? Both Nintendo consoles and both fell into last place 2 generations in a row.

"sony owns blu ray" - They own a small portion of blu-ray a very small portion. These compaies own blu-ray.

Apple
Dell
HP
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.

----------------------------- ------------------
@guy below - "in the next gen PS4 well actually be the new wii, except it will actually have hardcore games and such and it will have tremendous sales by how cheap it will be because of how they are in that blu ray group with thoses 15 companies, it would cost Microsoft more to make a console next gen.

the ps4 will sale as well as the ps2 last gen the wii well fade off as a fad. "

-That's literally the funniest thing I've ever read in my life.

[keysy420]

they are getting paid off every movie blu-ray sale everything.
who you think developed blu ray. if M$ sales blu- ray in windows or what ever format they sale it in will be significant to sony . hell if you collect 25 cent on 4 million people how much money is that. exactly that is still a major boost of free revenue.

face it people M$ jumped ship early and it paid off in the short run but now it is bitting them in the a$$

[pure pwnage24]

in the next gen PS4 well actually be the new wii, except it will actually have hardcore games and such and it will have tremendous sales by how cheap it will be because of how they are in that blu ray group with thoses 15 companies, it would cost Microsoft more to make a console next gen.

the ps4 will sale as well as the ps2 last gen the wii well fade off as a fad.

[divideby0]

look at the history of MS game consoles.

I purchase all consoles going back to SNES on launch..been lucky and persistant..

Xbox released, abandoned at least 1 if not 2 years before its time
360 released, gimped with tiny HD, no HD drive for games or movies...
you bet they are gonna bail on the 360 as soon as they can to remain competitve by jumping ahead...

[BigKev45]

Not until 3D TVs hit the mass market will there be a new Xbox system. Around 2013-2014, is what I hear.

[SixAmpFuze]

the 360 made profit blip doesnt know how to read

[presto717]

If Microsoft rushes to release a new console, then they would have accepted defeat this generation. If the xbox 360 is really what you guys make it out to be, then there should be no worries, right? Lets see how the 360 will stand up to the ps3 a few years from now. Unless of course it is true that the 360's hardware is close to its limit. Unless of course the 9GB dvd storage media was truly a limitation. Unless of course MS knows that the purely digital download it is pushing for right now is not feasible in the near future. Unless of course MS knows that they need bluray. Am I the only one that feels like releasing a new xbox soon will be like a slap in the face of all those who patronized microsoft and bought (several) xbox 360s. Even if MS decides to release a blu ray add on, do you think they will do it for free? Do you still think the xbox 360 is a cheaper alternative?
I'm not being a fan boy or anything, but I am being realistic. Games are taking up more and more space. You might not see it now, but it will be apparent soon. You cant keep compressing forever. Look at forza, its gonna be on 2 dvds. Sooner or later, most 360 games will be on multiple dvds because the developers NEED the extra space to put more good stuff into 360 games. Switching dvds might not be such a hassle, but do you think a multiple disk game will cost the same as a single disk game? MS can do what they want, but I'm sure if they could go back and do things differently, they would. With the benefit of hindsight, they would have done more hardware testing before release, and would have at least selected a storage media that would hold its own throughout their products "10 year life cycle". Call me whatever you want. Go ahead and click disagree. But I am happy I stuck with sony on this one.

[darthv72]

"Am I the only one that feels like releasing a new xbox soon will be like a slap in the face of all those who patronized microsoft and bought (several) xbox 360s."

If they chose to release a new console next year around the holidays then it will have been a 5 year cycle between generations. The original barely made it to 4. Even nintendo has had roughly a 5 year cycle between systems. Only sony touts having the "10 year" plan. I don't think that is a prerequisite to releasing a console. "You must have it on the market for 10 years". I dont know about you but there are lots of changes that can happen to technology and development within even 3-4 years let alone 5-10.

Right now this is all speculation and "what if". People love to talk about the what if. I have one for you. WHAT IF: sony decides to forgo an optical drive in their next generation of playstation? Possibly even a future revision of the PS3? Taking the route like the PSP GO and make it all dlc based. The possibility is there and yet it will still be a ps3 and play the games but just not on bluray disc. You dl them to the ps3's massive 500+gb hdd.

What kind of backlash will they receive from the loyal fans who tout the capacity of the bluray only to have one of the companies who developed it...take a different route?

It would not be the first nor the last time they have helped develop a format only to go in a different direction. Purely business decision. They could support both formats like they say they will be doing with umd and dlc psp games. Supporting bluray and dlc ps3 games.

Seeing as this is just speculation I wouldnt expect you to form a propper opposition to this. Could happen though.

[presto717]

What you said could happen, but I doubt it will. First of all, Sony has invested a lot in blu ray. One of the perks of ps3 is that it has a built in blu ray player. Why then, would sony turn around and stab themselves, and start pushing for digital download on the ps3. They might have done it on the psp, but i wouldnt say umd is on the scale of blu ray. If blu ray fails, sony stands to lose a lot. If there's anyone thats going to try to fight blu ray, its MS. After all, what do they have to lose?

As for the 5 year console life span, I would beg to differ. Look at the ps2 for example. It came out in 2000. Fair enough the ps3 came out in 2006, but that did not stop Final Fantasy XII or God of War II from being on ps2. But look at Xbox. It came out a year after the ps2, but that did not stop MS from pulling the plug on it last year. If a new Xbox comes out, what makes you think MS wont do the same. Sony still supports ps2, but the original xbox is dead as we speak.

And this is the part where I speculate. GG said that Killzone 2 used only 60% of the ps3's power. Epic said Gears 2 used almost all the 360's power. EA stated that the 360 is almost maxed out. But you see, Killzone 2 shows off more then Gears 2. Sure the 360 and ps3 are on par now. But I dont think it will stay that way for long. 2 to 3 years from now, that difference will be very clear. I dont want to get into the which-console-is-better-argume nt all over again, but I would not be surprised if MS releases a new console soon. This time, we can only hope they dont pull the plug on all those 360 users out there.

[darthv72]

I would expect there to be some type of upgraded console after 5 years on the market. Be it from nintendo, MS or even Sega. Sony dragging out their system support for 10 years is a good looking plan to the public but not to their bottom line. They know the longer they prolong the inevitable the longer it will take for their current endeavor to catch on.

PS3 did good to "trojan horse" the format into homes but it is no longer the best cost effective solution on the market. They also know that the future is digital dist and will more than likely release a unit with big hdd for their own game on demand/hd movie service. You know it is coming.

MS has been working on a slim machine probably before the rumors of the ps3 slim. I am not sure but can just assume that they will have a model of 360 out within a year or so that has no dvd drive but instead have a big hdd (320gb+) for these proposed new live services. Sony and nintendo are more than likely doing the same thing...maybe sooner than we think (wink, wink).

There is something I like to call the 3rd console curse. Every maker has at some point released a 3rd console and have it not fare as well as their 2nd. I think MS may have found a way to bypass this. right now they seem to be the leaders in taking risks with the type of service they plan to offer. The full hd movies and full hd games on demand are but stepping stones to a more all digital experience. By creating the bridge to that experience now in the 360 and revised 360 could prevent them from falling into that curse. It is just speculation but a transitional move instead of full on new release of a console is at hand.

They always said they wanted the live service to be the focal point for xbox. Create the infrastructure of the service first then build the system(s) to accommodate and evolve with time. Something not even sony took into consideration. You have to figure their service was an afterthought and one that is getting better but will always be behind the rest.

[pshizle]

HALO REACH is in 2010

my guess is a new xbox in 2011.

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

swapable internals to keep consoles around much longer (ala PC).

After 4 years have a new device you swap out to keep your games ready through another gen...

I mean, console gaming has already dabbled with this... although several if not all were failures...

Sega 32X, N64 HDD (never seen the light of day) was shown in a old EGM I read back then... showing Zelda to be using it, That red graphics booster thing that went into the front of the N64 (although didn't do anything, came with DK).

If you think of the most successful thing this gen that's swapable that furthers your gaming needs is HD's. MS and Sony both offer swapable ones. Sony has the edge cause you can get wayyyyy more gigs for your console than, MS's... but MS actually profits off of their self marketed HD's.

But with them dabbling with swapable HD's, I can't help but to think... swapable/updated innards is going to be the way of the future, and thus bring consoles even closer to joining the PC ranks!

[Droid Control]

The guy can't even spell correctly.

[Yomiro]

Well....with all those defected xboxes they might have to release a new one

[donnie-2105]

msoft know how lucrative the gaming/home entertainment market is and with the 360 they have a chance to crush the last gen leader, sony.they have stated time and again that their in it for the long haul and with 14 BILLION overall profits for the year they have the capital to eventually rule the market like the ps1/2 did.msoft have a well known brand now and cant afford to let a rival put 150million internet capable consoles in homes.this could also effect their windows market share in the future a reason many have speculated why they entered the gaming space in the first place.remember sony loyalists this IS NOT SEGA but the worlds richest most sucessful company in history.

[Anon1974]

I'm a 360 owner and fan myself (gamertag: Darkridehex66, say hi sometime) but I'm also an informed gamer. I have no idea why this topic is so taboo, why people are so afraid to even discuss such an important question. I suppose the first guy that suggested Sega should get out of hardware was probably treated the same way.
Truth of the matter is the 360 has no hope of breaking even at the current rate, and Microsoft knows it. Natal might help them take some of the shine off the Wii, but considering the Xbox is much cheaper than the Wii and the Wii's walking all over it, it's not very likely we'll see consumers swayed this generation. Last year I took part in a conference call with some financial analysts that posed the same thought, it's time for Microsoft to ditch the hardware and focus on software again, their traditional strong suit. They have a responsibility to their shareholders and they can't ignore what a tremendous sinkhole the 360 has been. You can argue about the shape Sony is in all you want, but at the end of the day it doesn't make one iota of difference to the issues facing MS's Entertainment division.
As gamers, we shouldn't be afraid to discuss change.

[CobraKai]

It's inevitable, but in the meantime, it looks like they'll be pushing NATAL as their "next console". If you think about it, those games are probably not going to be compatible with both the standard controller and Natal, they would have to treat it like a new console.

[thehitman]

That blue look would look good on MS they should change symbol to that :D.

[younglj01]

I know alot of people going to say the Xbox360 is a console for this generation.But you are wrong the Xbox and Xbox360 was both release during the last generation or the PS2 era.So at the time Microsoft only had to worry about the PS2.So all they had to bring to the table was better graphics and a great online service.

Now we is in the third generation of consoles with only 1 console and that would be the PS3.The way I see it Sony started the next-gen conversation with the very first playstation.This article is not about sales or games but about the hardware that sets consoles apart and so far this generation the PS3 is ahead of the game.

I may get some disagrees and some people may agree to what I wrote.As long as you respect my opinion then its all good.If you dont like my opinion then tell me yours without bring sales or games into our conversation.

[siren]

Considering that for the first two years of the PS3, most of its games looked worse than Xbox360 titles and nothing on it looked better than Gears of War, it is really hard and painful to argue that the Xbox360 is last generation.

Now, yes, several PS3 titles do look better than pretty much all 360 titles, but those are few and far between and the difference is negligable.

PS3 does have a more advanced drive, but 360 has a more advanced online service. At best, one can claim these balance each other out.

Please do not do fans of the PS3 a disservice by spouting obvious bias like this. The PS3 is a very good system for this generation and the 360 fits right in there with it. Even though the Wii's graphics are easily comparible to last generation, it has brought its own form of "Next Generation" gaming in the form of motion controls and Virtual Console.

Go ahead and compare systems on their merits, but don't play these stupid games please.

[Blackcanary]

MS can get more first party developers then they should be fine.

A console can not depend on 3rd party developers alone.

[reddevilyi]

Third party developers are what made the PS2 so successful.

[indysurfn]

What? They have more than 129 more exclusive than Sony has! Isn't that the point of first party games? Exclusives to bring people to your console, that they can't get elsewhere? I don't care that my RPG's where made by square instead of Microsoft as long as they are good and exclusive I have to get them on the xbox360. The only Square game coming to PS3 in the sorta near futre is FFXIII which is also on xbox360. But infinate undiscovery, last remnant, Star ocean last hope, and from namco tales of vesperia, and also from Microsoft the big three rpg's. This while helping the developers, and publishers to have a nice slice of the pie, at the same time. That is what helped PS1, and PS2 to beat everyone where Nintendo was taking most of the pie for themselves with the n64 and Microsoft was taking most of the xbox(1) pie for themselves. Now Microsoft is pulling what Sony pulled last generation.

[Rowsdower]

for cereal

[pixelsword]

and I love it how the shark was "contained" by floating balls. Classic boobery preying on suburban ignorance at it's finest.

Not counting the fact that he barely jumped over it.

[Halo_Reach]

"Xbox720 with blu-ray, and natal built in.

With gear of war 3, and Halo Chronicles at launch. This would make the biggest launch in gaming history!."

Hell yeah and it will kill Sony and is Pshit4 for sure!

[OC_MurphysLaw]

In other words...more or less its rubish. When he said "With their games division continually to report a loss, I don’t think Microsoft will and can afford to continue to operate at a loss next cycle" he cemented his opinion as worthless. Does he read news? The last 2yrs the games division has been profitable. As in making money not losing.

Gamesonsmash...you need to do some research before you type.

[dagreylion]

Has anyone notice MS has a new game engine coming out, Natal, IBM is making new chips for 360, Come on are we all that blind. There is already talk of a new 360. Xbox will drop there new system Holiday 2010.......

[younglj01]

Thanks for your input but what games am I playing and how am I doing fans a disservice.When you mention in the first 2 years games looked better on the 360 is you talking about multiplatform games.Because if so your statment ranks hollow with me because for 1 the 360 is much much more easy to make games for and 10/10 those games are ported to the PS3.If those same games was ported to the 360 will you still stand by that statment.

So my PERSONAL opinion about this topic makes me bias.Yes the 360 have some great looking games but the reason they look so great is because we was comparing them to PS2 games.Now with the tech that the PS3 have and the fact companies is finally using we are seeing what could be done of this generation consoles.

As a gamer I would love to see inFamous,Killzone2,MGS4,GOWIII ,UC2,and MAG be played on a Xbox console but at the moment those games are not released on the Xbox.I also would love to see Gears of War 3 come to the PS3.No telling what might happen in the future one day I might be able to play an Xbox owner online while playing my PS3 or PS4.

BUT ONCE AGAIN THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT ON THIS TOPIC AND I HOPE WE CAN KEEP THIS CONVERSATION GOING WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS.

[siren]

You are doing a disservice to PS3 fans by actively claiming that the Xbox360 is not a console of this generation.

Yes, several PS3 games do look better than Xbox360 games, but the fact is that the vast majority of games, even exclusives on each system, are comparible in graphical quality and fidelity.

My question would be, would you argue that the Xbox was "Next Gen" compared with the PS2? Almost no PS2 games competed graphically with even the crappiest Xbox games. A few exceptions like God of War 2 exist, but even that couldn't even come close to competing with most of the Xbox titles. In the case of Multiplatform games (almost all of which were ported from PS2 -> Xbox), all looked noticably better due to AA, 480p, and usually significantly extra light sources.

Even with that HUGE difference in graphical quality, no one in their right mind argued that the Xbox and PS2 were in seperate generations.

Now in this current generation, you are trying to argue that the PS3 is "next gen" compared with the Xbox360. This while the reverse is true of last generation's comparison. If the Xbox360 is such a last gen system compared with PS3, why can't the PS3 do to the Xbox360 what the Xbox did to the PS2 at a minimum? Shouldn't it have provided better AA, better AF, improved lighting, higher detail models? Instead, until recently, almost all multiplatform titles looked better on the system you claim to be a generation behind.

So yes, it is a disservice to PS3 fans to make this claim. It shows a complete disregard for reality and only serves to give ammunition to the other side that PS3 fans do not want to accept reality.

[sparta76]

You talk about fanboys!?
Look at your first comment, u said that the first two years of the ps3 cycle no games looks better then gear of war. So ps3 had no good looking till 09!???
Ok, what about heavenly sword, lair?
Oh and uncharted says hi!

[siren]

I did not say that the PS3 had NO good looking titles till 09, what I said was nothing that could better Gears of War till 2 years (aka Holiday 2008).

Sorry, but heavenly sword, uncharted, and Lair can at best be described as matching Gears of War. Though, all three are extremely different titles with extremely different issues they had to resolve from a graphical and gameplay perspective that affects graphical output potential.

Take Lair. Very pretty, but suffered from framerate and gameplay issues. In addition, had lots of repeating textures extremely limited level designs. In particular "random island X" were all extremely low detail.

Uncharted is the closest you can compare, but while it has more impressive vistas in a lot of cases, it lacks greatly when compared to the speed and complexity of combat found in Gears of War.

Heavenly Sword, well, outside of the main character really wasn't all that impressive graphically. Lots of enemies on the screen was nice and the framerate was generally smooth, but it just didn't have polish.

Once again, that isn't to say that these were bad, but they didn't exactly that great.

Even if you want to argue that all of them looked better than the best Xbox360 titles, there is enough question remaining that you can't argue that they are even in the same realm as the Xbox was better than the PS2. There was extremely limited debate on that front, unlike you had in the first 2 years of the PS3 vs 360.

Now, yes, the PS3 is definately starting to show that it has more ummp than the Xbox360. But even now, you can generally only point to a title here and there that stands out, like Killzone2. Multiplatform games sometimes have better graphics but almost always utilize a worse form of AA that blurs the picture. Several games still show a huge difference in favor of the Xbox360 like Ghostbusters did. Where the PS3 wins in multiplatform, we usually have to stare at a static image for several seconds to notice, likewise for when the Xbox360 wins.

Once again, with Xbox vs PS2, the difference was just noticable, all the time. There was little to no question on multiplatform games even though ALL of them were ported from PS2 to Xbox. In regards to exclusives, the Xbox just flatout won without question. Nothing on the PS2 ever compared to the likes of Halo2, KoToR, or Ninja Gaiden. That isn't to say that PS2 games were bad (my wall of PS2 games says otherwise).

Let us also not forget, the launch titles on the Xbox looked better than anything on the PS2. At best, it took the PS3 a year to become fully comparable to the Xbox360.

Once again, how can you argue that the Xbox360 is a generation behind the PS3 when the graphically difference between the two systems is so small or non-existent. It just doesn't make sense and once again does a disservice to fans of the PS3 platform.

[feejo]

Ya they will continue, they make money with games, not console. They can't let sony win, that is why they are in the console war.

[Gamer_Z]

yes.

[younglj01]

is because Microsoft had to release the Xbox360 because the Xbox was a slap in every gamers face including mine.After I brought the first Xbox and with the little games that came with the system Microsoft turn its back on us and release the Xbox360.And with the problems the 360 had after its release with RROD I cant put the 360 in the next gen systems or consoles.And I stayed with my PS2 even though I wanted a 360 because I couldnt trust the Xbox or Microsoft brand anymore.

And now with the PS3 I have no regrets of waiting a extra year for a next-gen console.The reason I brought a Ps3 because it does alot more then play games and watch movies.The fact I can search the internet save me even more money because I dont have to buy and PC or a laptop now.

So what Im saying is this if the Xbox was a last gen console and the 360 is a this gen console then why was the owners having so many problems with it.Yes the 360 was a next-gen console at the time of its release.Yes the 360 have a great onlive service but thats the way thing they have done better then Sony.

And what really bugs me is the price of the 360 how can I consider it a next gen console when its cheaper then the Wii.And you said it yourself that the Wii could be consider as a last gen console.Thats why I'm glad Sony is sticking by there price of the PS3 because you getting more then you pay for.

I HAVE NEVER WROTE THIS MUCH ON THIS SITE BEFORE.PLEASE DON'T TELL ME I'M TURNING INTO A SO CALLED FANBOY LOL JUST KIDDING NEVER THAT JUST STATING THE FACTS AND MY OPINION.

[siren]

Seriously, generation is not determined by personal preference which is all you are stating. Generation is determined primarily by release date in relation to other products and secondarily by technological advancement.

You have also misquoted me, again. I actually said the Wii can be considered a next-gen (ie current gen) console regardless of it's older graphics due to its introduction of a new generation control system as well as digital distibution of games in the form of WiiWare and Virtual Console.

Your comments regarding system failures I could use also against the PS1 and PS2. You may not remember or may have bought those systems later than launch, but their launch systems had very high failure rates and well and Sony never did anything to help consumers like Microsoft did with the Xbox360. The PS1 was notorious for its faulty gyro in the CD-Rom that resulted in gamers having to turn on the system and then flip it upside down to play games and hope it stayed balanced. The PS2 suffered from two issues. 1) Single layer only DVD-roms in the first batch that would not play Dual-layer games later in life and ongoing DVD-rom drive tray failures that basically debilitated the systems.

This does not excuse MS' system failure, which have been much worse, but using your argument you would also argue the PS2 was in the N64 generation and the Dreamcast was more advanced next-gen system. That is just silly logic.

Price also has nothing to do with generation of system, especially if as pointed above the extra cost is having little to no benefit in regards to advancement of system features or graphics, which is the case here. Consider this, last generation the PS2 was a lot cheaper than the Xbox later in life, does that mean it was a generation behind? The GameCube was cheaper than the PS2, does that mean that the GameCube (which had better graphics than the PS2) was a generation behind?

All you have done is provided an opinion which has no basis in reality. This is no better than the people that play with statistics to try to make one product appear more successful than another (IE - Product X grew its marketshare by 1500% in the last 3 months, even though it went from .1% to 1.5% and the nearest competitor is 35% share).

Face it, by all hard facts, all 3 systems are "next-gen" systems. Saying anything else is frankly entering the realm of delusion.

[bankai]

as interesting as your idea is, i would have to say i disagree with you.

the 360 is marketed as a NEXT GENERATION console by MICROSOFT. they launched it the way they did in order to compete with the PS3 a next gen console, and beat it out the door. and they stuck with the mainstream DVD format and gave it a PC like format. in order to make development very very easy. all that aside MICROSOFT even calls it a next gen console. the only reason the arcade is cheaper than the wii is to give people who are cheap, the reason to buy a 360. its like buying a car with no radio, no A/C, a standard transmission, no anti-locking breaks, no trunk for space (your forced to have hatchback), etc.... BUT you spend a little more and you start to get those other features. i mean, the elite is as much as the PS3 (when we are talking about only console msrp, not everything you need for it). and the pro, which i have personally is also more than the wii.

and if you dont think the original xbox had any good titles, where the f**k were you. it was a late comer thats all.
ps2 vs. original xbox was like PSone vs. N64
the n64 and xbox both came late and there weren't many games for it, but some real gems were released. they just came late and sony's market was already established.

[Gamer_Z]

"And yet every xbot wants a Blu Ray player"

I don't want a blu-ray player. :)

[bankai]

of course microsoft will produce a new console competition in any industry is a great thing. it keeps all corporations trying to top one another. i personally see the XBOX 2011, if not then definitely in 2012.

the only thing i have against the xbox is that it brought out a new breed of gamers i cant stand, and the fact the 360 was nothing more than a rush job to beat sony out the door. other than that, nothing about the xbox bothers me. i love my 360, thankfully it has had no problems. however all my friends have been hit with RRoD multiple times, and this new error doesnt help either.

does the 360 have some good games? Yes
is live fun? Yes
is it a good quality console? not so much. had the crappiest craftsmanship quality ever. it had an over 60% fail rate, OVER 60%, thats insane. when they said they got rid of that, then something else popped up. ugh please just trash this model and bring out a new console.

what microsoft is doing with the 360 is like, never flushing the toilet in the bathroom and just spraying a little air freshener. expecting the smell of sh*t and piss to go away

hopefully they put an ounce of effort into making sure the next console functions correctly, so by the end of its life the console becomes something more than a sh*tty patch job.

[dktxx2]

If the 360 results in an overall profit, then they will continue. If it doesn't, maybe they give it one more shot or call it quits. So far gaming hasn't been very good to them in money speak. But thats more because they just too reckless in spending - I mean $50 million dollar for exclusive dlc? Theres some waste right there.

All MS needs to find profit in gaming is a little common sense and out a lock on the wallet. Focus on profit, not eliminating the competition.

[bankai]

also pouring money out the ass for games that were initially PS3 exclusive and multiplatform to make them exclusive. much much waist. none of which really contributed to 360 sales. except for maybe one or two titles

[siren]

In regards to the the $50 Million deal for DLC with R*, that was a loan to cover development costs. MS will receive all sales proceeds until such time as the $50 Million is paid back at which time profits will transition to R*. So, really, MS didn't spend anything there, just loaned them money.

In regards to games going multiplat, a lot of that is the result of MS having a larger marketshare than Sony, over 2:1, in the largest gaming market (the US). Most companies just want or have to now make the titles also on the Xbox360. No payment from MS involved. If you think about it, it just makes business sense. These game development studios owe nothing to Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo. They do owe it to their shareholders to make the most money they can which often implies developing for a console that has over 30 Million systems on the market.

[bankai]

i can see exactly what your saying
but it is fact that sony and microsoft do have to pay if they want a console exclusive. or to have them released a year or more on their console before it goes to the competitors system.
thats the point i was making

[anatomyofme]

Ill believe an article like this then even considering listening to msoft talk about how profitable there gaming division is. If any has done any research at all you will find that msoft is the biggest liars and smokescreen artist in the world. They have failed terrible in my eyes since the introduction of the orignal xbox! For a company that just monopolizes there industry in software and uses hostile takeovers to make there product number 1, they have done nothing to make there xbox the best other then hiding the failure rate and waisting more money. This arcticle is correct msoft has terrible 1st party games compared to Sony and Nintendo, and just cause there ahead of sony in sales doesn't mean there making money. Why should Sony drop the price like the xbox? They have lowered cost of production and have kept the price the same all the while selling on avg. 160,000 consoles a month!! But every1 thinks sony is failing? Why? The real fact is that msoft is failing terribly and they will hide the that forever. Don't believe everything Msoft says!

[gumgum99]

Of course they will be ready for the next round. I'm curious as to how the next gen will pan out myself.