540°

Is DirectX throttling 360 performance?

Digital Foundry writes:

"It's often been said that one of the many advantages of working on console is that you have a fixed set of hardware to work with, that you can "write to the metal" and code to the "bleeding edge" of the spec. However, our sources suggest that this simply isn't an optionfor Xbox 360 developers. Microsoft doesn't allow it.

Suspicions were first aroused by a tweet by EA Vancouver's Jim Hejl who revealed that addressing the Xenos GPU on 360 involves using the DirectX APIs, which in turn incurs a cost on CPU resources. Hejl later wrote in a further message that he'd written his own API for manual control of the GPU ring, incurring little or no hit to the main CPU."

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GWAVE5395d ago

Microsoft is in a tough spot. They don't have strong 1st-party support, nor do they share their software tech with other devs. On top of that, most of the 360's exclusives are made with Unreal Engine, because it's a quick and easy way to make a game. So, the tech advances on the 360 are few and far between.

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Natsu X FairyTail5395d ago

How are the Graphics lagging behind? Yeah the PS3 have the Edge of blu-ray and that's good for PS3 owners but the Xbox360 still offers Up to Date Graphics and good game elements. If you can't see that you're a stupid Fanboy and you deserve to get your bubbles stripped out of you.

I See you're at your last bubble there , I dont expect you to reply .

darthv725395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

I am no expert but I can only speculate that what is happening with the 360 and direct X is similar to what happens on the pc side. When a new version of the api comes out it must be refined to the graphic card makers and they need to address performance issues with new driver releases.

true the 360 is a closed architecture but it could benefit from updated driver code in the game to allow for the ati chip to adapt. No different to the ps3 and its use of nvidia gpu. There just isnt the apparent option to update the gpu drivers whenever a new release is made. I am not sure if with each new fw on the ps3/360 there are subtle changes to things like that or if that is solely on the software disc itself.

It is possible to take a game coded for dx11 or dx10 and have drivers change the calls down to whatever level the gpu supports. At least ...on a pc. MS would obviously not want to leave out the 360 when it refines the next version of direct x.

edit: I guess I offended some people. Like I said I am no expert. I was just thinking as the 360 is like a pc and that drivers could be made to adapt the chip for newer versions of DX. Guess I was wrong.

Sorry.

danthaman155395d ago

"If the tools are so excellent, why are the graphics and physics lagging behind?"

Example? I think you're standards are a little high. I think you're being a bit of a graphics whore. Xbox games are fun AND the visuals are really good.

poopsack5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

for some reason i imagine u screaming when i read ur replies.

Greywulf5395d ago

Its because the 360 has the specs of a 5 year old computer with no new technology. Thats why Gears2 looks shockingly just like Gears1 and most unreal engine games. Not 1 single 360 exclusive can hang with any of the titles I've mentioned technically/visually. Its why you don't need a $5000 dollar computer to run multipatform games. They are limited to run optimally on a 4 year old computer. Your videocard is pretty much from the future when you're loading up COD4/MassEffect.

Gwave is right about microsoft's situation, but I dont think MS is in a tough spot due to it. The 360's hardware can't compete with the PS3's. Period. Does it need to? No. Not in the world of churn over a game for sales. Does MW2 need to trump KZ2 in graphics? No, same with Resident Evil 5, Fight Night 4, blazblue etc.

Microsoft has created a bottleneck for multiplatform gaming this generation with its dated technology, and under performing first party advancements. You can't sit here and make a ps3 version look like what the ps3 version could do, Uncharted2. And have the 360 version look like Gears2, MS wouldn't be happy with that, and I doubt they would continue to do business with the developer. You then have to optimize a game with code that doesn't translate to the ps3 well. And you get the current state of multiplats. Take a look at the latest casualty of the 360's hardware. Alan Wake.

Since 4 years ago the title was boasted to be the single game to show the 360's hardware off. With its demanding physics, open world scale, true to life weather and light cycle all in a sandbox, as the developer stated. Now.. the sandbox element is removed, with excuses about blah blah blah. And oh yeah, it doesn't look close to any ps3 exclusive. Now its just an adventure game with a flashlight and action flares shown at E3.. after all this time. Epic.

It was a good move on their part, because they have built up an audience that doesn't care about having better graphics or stable hardware, but having good enough graphics and a fun community. Much like the Wii audience, its not a knock. Because games with terrible cameras/performance/loading hallways seem to be perfectly fine for the audience considered.

All in all, the PS3 has better hardware and way more advanced games. Only time is going to show this to be more and more evident, because multipaltforms have stopped advancing for some time now. Bioshock was once the benchmark of graphics for the 360/Console gaming, now bioshock 2 is around the corner looking oddly exactly the same. Same for Modern Warfare 2. Its going to be up to Sony/media to start pointing out the fact that the PS3 does have the upper hand with gaming, and I think thats why the focus is on its exclusives more. This gen of gaming seems to be the multiplatform generation though.

IdleLeeSiuLung5395d ago

"If the tools are so excellent, why are the graphics and physics lagging behind?"

I don't know what Gwave is talking about as far as I can tell there are plenty of games with excellent graphicsand physics. Gears of War 2 is an excellent example of this. Upcoming games that is sure to impress are Splinter Cell and Alan Wake.

tuglu_pati5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

i see a couple of delusional fanboys in here, i mean its ok to be a fanboy but a delusional one is pretty bad.

@IdleLeeSiuLung

add to that list Forza 3 and Mass Effect 2 to name a couple more.

BRACHATTACK5395d ago

Why are you encouraging people to take GWAVE's bubbles?

He's on 2 bubbles because of your duplicate accounts.

Bubbles up GWAVE.

cliffbo5395d ago

sorry Natsu but i think he has a point. it may well be handy in the short term but once 1st party games are head and shoulders above 3rd party games (and some are already), then the pressure for 3rd party to provide better experiences will increase, meaning they'll have to write specifically for the PS3 and Blu-ray and then port to the 360. we are already seeing extra content on games for the PS3 simply to satisfy those PS3 owners who's voices are getting ever louder on the whole 'DVD gimping Blu-ray games' issue. it will only get worse for DVD based games. when you see some of the terrible ports the PS3 has gotten in the past and some even now, you begin to realize that those 3rd party devs are marginalizing themselves from an ever growing PS3 market... and that cannot be sustained without consequences

Natsu X FairyTail5395d ago

Nobody with common logic would Agree with GWave's comments.

dude is really a fanboy.

I call Multiple Accounts @ Work here.

Xi5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

When I see games like splintercell conviction, and forza 3 and alanwake I don't see where the 360 is falling behind. It looks right on par with what the ps3 is producing. And for a console that supposed to be much more powerful then the 360 why hasn't the multiplatform games looked any better like they did on the original xbox compared to the ps2.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Heck, even david gaffe thought gears 2 looked better then uncharted, so other then killzone 2, which was in development for several years, where are these titles that looks much better then 360 games? Truth is, there has still to be a game that doesn't look like it's capable on either system.

And even killzone 2 relies on smoke and mirrors to make the game look better then it does. Given the same enviroments even gears looks as good.

http://www.gametrailers.com...

But how dare I defend the 360 on N4G, just watch I'll go down to 1 bubble after being at 7 for years.

Tinted Eyes5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

and i know i will get tons of disagrees but i think you all have seen the last guardian trailer? all that was used with the in game engine, 360 has good graphics but it cant do that

fossilfern5395d ago

I Agree with you 100%. Great post man

Greywulf5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

Are you kidding yourself? Deferred rendering isnt "smoke and mirrors". Neither is ambient occlusion and the laundry list of things that the kz2 engine does -SPECIFIC- to the Kz2 console engine. Crysis uses "Smoke and mirrors' do you think every rock is detailed and modeled for the ground, or is it just a normal map? Pointing out that a PS3 engine does something every engine does, including the Unreal Engine means absolutely nothing, since the unreal engine on the 360 can't produce competing visuals.

According to you, only the middle of this year have you seen titles that can come close to the PS3. This alone proves that before SC/F3/AW there was absolutely nothing. And looking at the 3, there is still absolutely nothing that can compete with the PS3's graphically advanced exclusives. Or do I have to remind people of what 8 cars vs 16 is at a higher native resolution higher vehicle detail and cars that reflect the track technically means?

So I see the grand excuse of "buh buh it took kz2 so long to d..."

Uncharted2 runs circles around any title created on the 360-- and look no 60 year dev cycle.. Again, lets stop the excuses. Jaffe was talking about game design, not game engine technicalities, which is what everyone is talking about today.

The 360 gets credit for what it does well. The same credit needs to be applied to the PS3 for what it does well. Smoke & Mirrors is the last card in the mind of the desperate. No offense, CGI movies use "smoke and mirrors" to perform the visuals that they do. You have level of detail tricks, using 2d things to look 3d etc.

The KZ2 engine is second to none, and it is more technically advanced than any console engine INCLUDING THE UNREAL ENGINE. Do you honestly believe that the Unreal Engine could perform KZ2 100%. Stream loading, textures,model detail,animation blending,7.1 sound. Everything? No. You know it couldn't just like everyone else here knows it couldn't. The only graphical defense card for the 360 is the Unreal engine, and a game we have only seen in the dark, but yet.. thats all thats needed to trump the entire PS3 exclusive lineup. This is an exercise in complete denial. PS3 has games that almost look photo realistic like Motorstorm2, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Killzone2, and now Uncharted2 trumps the titles i just mentioned.

The 360 has yet to produce 1 single title that can buy right now that competes with any of those, yet its some how keeping up? Thats absurd.

http://farm4.static.flickr....
http://farm4.static.flickr....

Do you think Gears has better anything over Uncharted2. Please, let me know and provide images. If not, don't talk about graphics.

If you can accept credit for all of the wonderful things Microsoft has done for gamign, you need to accept the fact that the PS3's flagship exclusives out perform every 360/multiplatform game ever created. There is no "close" game. Theres nothing but excuses about why the PS3's games look so good, yet no one wants to admit the fact that the 360 is ahead due to a year head start. Even if it takes 50 years to make PS3 flagship titles, they DO look better than the 360's offerings, who had a year head start and easier development, and it still cant produce anything to compete. the 360 has great second to none online, the 360 has better looking multiplats, the 360 is cheaper too. The PS3 has more reliable hardware & more technically advanced exclusive games. Thats it. Does it mean anything bad for the 360 that it cant run MGS4? No. Because Rising will probably do well and offer hours of enjoyment to people that couldn't afford a ps3 to play MGS4. It will sell more than MGS4 as well. Dev is happy, gamers are happy, and thats it. But stop with the excuses.

coolirisGB5395d ago

Look how fast PS3 fans try to rewrite reality in a damage control effort just after Microsoft showed games that compete with and pass up any PS3 game at E3.

Jinxstar5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

Does it really matter?

I mean... Look I am a PS3 fanboy but not for the ZOMG GRAPHICS. I love LBP and think it is going to go into the books as a huge step forward to bringing modding and otherwise to the general public over Steam engines or UE3 modders. Could the 360 do LBP graphically? yes I think so but MS doesn't allow user generated content on live(Halo 3's moving boxes around is not modding a game). The truth is that all a game needs is to be fun. I for one think Fat Princess will be down right amazing. Do I think it's not possible on any other system? The game is simple looking and I think it would be a simple port but it's the feel of the game that I like. It looks amazing to me. If a 360 owner(I was a former one) thinks a game like Carcasonne was the best game this gen I would not hold it agains't them. I had a lot of fun playing it and wish every day for a PS3 announcement but thats besides the point. Graphics as has been proven are superior on the PS3 in scale, scope and beauty but that doesn't make them ALL fun. Some are very fun and MAG looks to be crazy. I mean 256 players thats impressive but... I personally see myself getting much more into COD MW2... You can argue anything you want but as long as the game provides what you want for the right price thats all that matters. it is about the games and to me the PS3 offers all the ones I want... Mixed with my PC thats a heck of a good way to go

@ Natsu

"How are the Graphics lagging behind? Yeah the PS3 have the Edge of blu-ray and that's good for PS3 owners but the Xbox360 still offers Up to Date Graphics and good game elements"

Dude.... I don't know how to address you. You are incredibly one sided but truthfully have you played say Left 4 Dead on PC? If you have you'll notice a huge difference from the 360 version. Not just in graphics but in sheer numbers of enemies as well...I can't play games on the steam engine they give me a headache after about 10 min but it really is night and day man. The 360 is showing it's limits. however smart dev's working within the limits can provide PLENTY of fun quality games. You probably wont ever see what GOW3 offers but that doesn't make it not fun... If it truly is all about the games then stop trying to one up the PS3 in the graphics Dept. Harp on the online like 360 fans do so often or harp on other things like service warranties. I tell you I just had my PS3 serviced and lost every save game I had. That is a huge bummer to me and I feel sony needs to find a way to fix that. Allow you to send in the herd drive with a Flash drive or something and put all the saves on the drive or something where as the 360 all you got to do is pop the HD off the top and pop in on another 360 and your golden... There are many advantages and disadvantages to each system... just try and realize that the 360 is pretty maxed out while the PS3 has a lot of breathing room because of many reasons to include Blu Ray but the disadvantages are still there like a near 5 gig install for Devil May cry 4...

Edit: @ Disagree's. Really? I mean come on? I am trying to be fair here... You guys kill me.

Xi5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

Using a poor picture of a character model VS a good one doesn't prove anything. By your logic L4d looks better then uncharted.

http://www.garrysmod.com/qu...

http://gamerlimit.com/wp-co...

look how much more realistic francis' hair looks and look at how the skin actually looks like flesh. I mean drakes hair is only one colour and flat.

Anyone can make faulty comparisons like that.

Blogz4Fanboys5395d ago

wow, how much did sony just pay you for that??? what nothing? really?? you need to get out more mate. seriously.

now dont get me wrong, i love my ps3. and i seriously love killzone. but i dont think in any way shape or form that it's in some league of it's own that many people try to claim on here.

greywulf you sit there and write a load of fanboy non-sense and try to sound like you know what your talking about, when in reality i doubt that you have 1 second of dev experience, and only know what you've researched on wikipedia. you nearly pull it off until you mention gears...why does gears2 look only a touch better than the first?? because they optimised the game to f^*k the first time, and left little room for improvement the second time around. mark my words, killzone3 will not be much better than 2 graphically.

resident evil has already destroyed gears, lost planet2 is going to surpass both(which is running on a multi-platform engine) and imo is sitting second only to kilzone in the graphics department so far this gen. and both are making every sony fanboy that tried to claim the 360 was maxed by gears look like the know-nothing idiots they are. i didn't even mention cryteks engine.

now i dont want to defend any company that doesn't pay my wages. but, i will say that microsofts lack of first party studios is to blame for them not pushing the hardware.

Darkeyes5395d ago

@Xi... Dude you compare L4D CGI to Uncharted gameplay and say L4D is better looking? I have played L4D on both the 360 and the PC and even the PC version isn't half as good looking as Uncharted 2 leave alone the 360 version. In UC2, Nathan Drake comprises of 25000 polygons... thats greater than any character ever modeled on an console followed by Kratos in God Of War 3....

I don't want to get into a fanboy argument, but only delusional people think that Splinter cell or Alan Wake looks as good as Uncharted 2. They are better looking than most games, but games like Uncharted 2, God Of War 3, Killzone 2 trump them.

People might even find a way to optimize the 360 to 100% and make it capable of producing an Uncharted 2, but the thing that M$ lacks is talented First party devs who can put in time behind a game and create engines from ground up and not rely on 3rd party engine.

It's first party the reason why PS3 gets massive online games like MAG... It's first party the reason why games like Uncharted 2 and God Of War 3 are only possible on the PS3.

It's hard to believe a software making company lack in the single greatest aspect of the gaming industry... First party.

Xi5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

that's the real character model from the game in garry's mod. I actually just made the mock-up.

You want me to show you more?
http://media.photobucket.co...
(solid snake, cutscene vs francis in game)
http://forum.i3d.net/attach...

also alan wake and splintercell do look as good as uncharted.
http://www.alanwake.com/vie...
http://www.alanwake.com/vie...

http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/...
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/...

it would take someone delusional to think other wise.

greywolf, thanks for proving my point. The screentshot you provided ( http://images.xbox360-tribe... doesn't even have the right character models as the ones in the real game. You just proved how much of an ignorant person you are. L4d doesn't even have any cutscenes and those models are from initial builds of the game before they completely re-worked the models to make them more easily definable. Also the link you posted could be done by anyone willing to find bad pictures of one games and good pictures of the other. It doesn't prove anything.

Edit: please, link me a cutscene from the game, and not the opening cinematic.

Greywulf5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

http://images.xbox360-tribe... Is what L4D looks like by the way, not the cut scenes/GARYS MOD Come on dude.. Theres the second fail. Everyone said cut-scenes because we all know how the game looked in game. Nothing like a mod for the PC version. Which again, proves you have 0 titles on the 360 to use in this conversation, because the 360 can't produce visuals that can compete. Only hardware like the PC or the PS3 can do it.

lol really?
http://images.gamersyde.com...
http://images.gamersyde.com...
http://images.gamersyde.com...

You're blind if you think any screens of alan wake(non sanbox) or splinter cell top that in any way shape or form.

And we can use entire screencaptures of Uncharted if you like just to further illustrate how terrible gears looks compared to it. Uncharted is better from zoomed in, and far away.

Just go here: http://www.kineticninja.blo...
I used the close up photo since thats what all the comparison websites do.

@Blogz,

Typical "Well i have nothing to say so ill point out how lame another guy is while I comment on NEWS FOR GAMERS myself" Don't act like you're some sort of suave internet gaming enthusiast on this website. You're a geek just like the rest of us. Don't try to call me out on it, then provide a shallow response.

Gears2 optimized what? 2 more players online? Uncharted2 looks ages beyond Uncharted1. It doesnt' look like a 1.5. Motorstorm2 looks ages beyond Motorstorm1. Mlb09 looks better than mlb08. GT5p looks better than GTHD, it goes on and on. Kz3 will more than likely look better than KZ2 based on the route of ps3 exclusives, like Naughty Dog. Epic said they perfected the online too! Epic says a lot, and ill give credit when i see otherwise. But Gears2 wasn't "BIGGER BETTER AND MORE BADASS" than gears1, at all. Maybe you're fooled by shooting at cloned run cycles from far away? I'm not.

Resident Evil 5 does look better than Gears, as do most modern games compared to the dated unreal engine, But thats not saying much. Seeing as how RE5 cant compete with any flagship PS3 title. And LP2 hasn't created a single image/video that trumps Killzone2 in any technical way. Multiplatform games aren't used to show off hardware, not sure why this generation has such a hard time grasping that fact.

You cant name any 360 exclusives that trump the PS3's. You then try to talk about L4D's graphics being better based on a character model with painted hair(xi)and now we are back to the excuses of "buh buh the first party." Again, these are excuses. Your excuse makes it valid that the Ps3's exclusives are second to none, but with a justification you make up. Which is why I brought up the year head start of the 360. No one keeps that in mind when talking about #'s and other things, no. Just what Is. That the 360 is ahead of the PS3.

Excuses are fine, but excuses don't provide any games that prove that the PS3's flagship exclusives are technically inferior to any 360 offerings. Yet, the people seems to rest with the knowledge that its "close", please. How is close defined, because its definitely not by graphical standards. Is it more of an idea?

None of what I wrote has a single thing to do with being a fanboy, else I wouldn't admit all the positives for the 360. Hardware & Graphics just plain isn't one of them. You can try to lump me into it, but it wont make the 360's year-head-start titles perform any better. Hell I even said that the graphics don't really matter. But lets not just ignore the fact that the PS3 does have second to none visuals.

Edit:

L4d doesn't have cut scenes? are you kidding? Maybe the console version doesn't but the PC version definitely does.

Nathan1235395d ago

Wow Xi, you are the pure definition of a delusional fanboy. Give me some God damn gameplay trailers of SC or Alan Wake that look as good as this..
No fukin screen shots cause even I know how photoshop works

http://www.gametrailers.com...

Oh ya and do not forget to read the initial remarks in the videos.

Boy what day is it? Someone arguing AW or SC looks better than UC2... Someone forgot their medicine this morning.

Blogz4Fanboys5395d ago

ssshhh...dont tell anyone im a geek. i have a reputation to think about...lol

but just quickly, come on, you cannot deny how awesome resi looked? if your talking about killzone and uncharted as flag-ship titles graphically, then no resi doesnt beat them(i never said it did though!) and i never said lp2 beats killzone...but it's a close second in graphical lovliness. but f^*k me you cant deny just how awesome that game is looking? and like we both said..it's only a multi-platform engine i.e: common sense dictates a dedicated first party engine could do even more.

i brought up gears because you was using it as one of justifications at how the 360 cant compete with the ps3. again, it would be a massive embarrasment if sonys heavily invested first party engines couldn't beat the already 5 year old unreal3 wouldn't it?

at the end of the day, we can run round in circles arguing pointless stuff and still get nowhere...not only that, neither of us is employed by either company so whats the point?? i'll agree to disagree with you greywulf.

but, i will give one mention to imo the 360s best in-house engine so far....the banjo kazooie engine. stunningly beautiful, yet criminally wasted on a create a go kart rubbish. then even more wasted when rare never ripped of mario-kart for an awesome on-line karting game.

heads should've rolled for that debacle.

Greywulf5395d ago

Which is why in my first comment I said that while I agree that MS is in a "situation", the lack of graphics don't matter for 360 titles. Its not a "situation" in my opinion at all. But I give credit to where credit is due.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. The 360 has its second to none features, as the PS3 does. But its as if people want to just give the 360 credit for everything, and just "shhhh come on the graphics are just as good bro" When they aren't. And no, after playing PS3 exclusives they aren't "close" to other games. But as I said earlier, there isn't much value in it when you can sell games without the polish.

I'm never going to fault Sony or any hardware manufacturer for spending time to develop games and make them the best experience you can have. Its never going to be a negative in my eye, because so far all the ps3 games that take oh-so-long to make.. seem to be coming out on a regular basis throughout the year(s). The quality is a significant drop. And even on the non kz2 titles. Motorstorm2 is damn near perfect visually, it is leaps beyond m1. Its something that pure or that other one couldn't pull off.

The excuses about why the 360 cant produce visuals that compete are heard, while the excuses for most all Sony's issues price/start are ignored in favor to decide a "win" for the 360. The case should be the same for the PS3s graphics. If you cant name any games I can buy that trump Uncharted 1(not 2) then what Im saying is completely true, regardless of the excuses. Just like the gen of gaming we are in.Wii 1st, Xbox3602nd, Ps3-third. It is what it is, but it doesn't seem to really matter.

Megan Fox5395d ago

@ Greywulf

Are you desperate or in a mission? Anyone could say that sony is paying you. You are trying to hard.

mynd5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

@GWAVE "They don't have strong 1st-party support, nor do they share their software tech with other devs."

You dont even have a clue do you? Why would you come up with a line like that , when you dont even know what your talking about?
MS has always released their tech to developers absolutly free, you dont even have to programme for the 360 to understand how to programme for the 360.

Perhaps you should take a good look here, download a few whitepapers and shut up.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/e...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/e...

They arent in a "tough spot" they share their tech just fine.
Yes DX incures a CPU overhead. Yes you could "write your own" api to access the GPU, but no you couldnt get anywhere near the control you do from DX. Or the tool support that goe swith it, including anaylaisis and performance benchmarking.

Not only is the article way off, but MS has not only implemneted the command buffer ring the way the article talks about, but added "multi-core" support for it. Updating only what is required in the command buffer can be done easily, and from mulitple CPU's now.

The DX API in the 360 gets mutliple updates. You only have to have alook at the latest 2009 presentaitons to see the new features implemented this year.

iChaos Amongus5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

Forza 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watc... <-----lol from an old build that will look even better in October.

http://cdn.forzamotorsport....

http://cdn.forzamotorsport....

http://cdn.forzamotorsport....

Forza 3 is one of the best looking games on a console, and there is much more to come from Xbox 360.

KingKionic 5395d ago

Funny comments.

COmments will change by the end of year.

Splinter cell : Conviction and Forza 3 will show that there not lagging by any means .

Greywulf5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

Even though Forza3 is still trumped by Need For Speed Shift as well as Gran Turismo prologue, its some technical Juggernaut with just 8 vehicles on a track.. no weather.. and featuring no dynamic lighting. Talk about pushing hardware!

Alan Wakes entire hardware pushing argument "oh my god it looks this good and its sandbox!!!" was removed. And now sam fischer is fat..

The 360 has been around for god knows how long, and the only titles that can defend its hardware haven't been released. Go figure.

KingKionic 5395d ago

If you played gears 2 single player you will see graphically there`s a lot of stuff shown in there that hasn't been done yet.

And no we didn't have to wait to 2009.

likedamaster5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

At least try to sound intelligent and not like a complete tool especially on the first post, not to mention an XBOX 360 post. Oh yeah, and read the article too next time.

"More than that, in the here and now, it can easily be argued that the implementation of DirectX is a key reason that the Xbox 360's tools and development environment are considered to be generally excellent. Not only that, but game makers are familiar with the standard, and code is easily portable to and from PC. A firm adherence to DirectX is also good news for gamers too: it makes the chances of full backwards compatibility on Xbox Next a far more realistic prospect... "

And folks, try keeping it on topic and remember... don't feed the trolls.

Jinxstar5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

@ Kionic

"If you played gears 2 single player you will see graphically there`s a lot of stuff shown in there that hasn't been done yet.

And no we didn't have to wait to 2009."

I played it... just curious what your referring to. Graphically anyway. I mean horde mode is new and cool but if we are talking about a hardware push you should see the link provided by greywulf above... Please elaborate. Not looking to shoot you down but I didn't see anything that hasn't been done yet. I mean... I know I'll get a ton of disagrees and all that so....

Let me just say I think Gears 2 is a cool game. It's got a cool cover system and it is definitely bigger, badder and more bad a$$ in every way... It offers a lot of fun co-op and single and online... that being said on the subject of smoke and mirrors there is a lot in that game. Even in the trailer your riding and the level feels alive. Key word though is "Feels" because when you look over the edge at the guys on the ground you can't actually target and shoot them. It's kind of a "Moving background". Levels in many places in the game look large but are actually very linear in a lot of places... I know the UE3 engine can handle some very large levels but I didn't really see them implemented. There is never more then 8 or 9 enemies on screen at once that are targetable... There are a lot of things that try and make you feel like you have control but you really don't. It's some very very high quality hollywood trickery. I can't really describe it except in a way that... If you ever go to disney land and look at the castle the windows up top are actually not to scale. They are actually much smaller. This gives the illusion the castle is bigger. That to me is kind of the way I see everything in Gears 2... Perfectly executed but in the end it's not a full size castle it just looks like one. It's still really cool and impressive but... just not what it could be...

Edit: Ok Seriously to whoever keeps anonymously disagreeing with me please stop. If your not going to offer any kind of rebuttal or criticism your just being ignorant of the facts. Seriously I am not beyond approachable. If you prove me wrong I will gladly digress... Show me what it is that gears 2 does that is above and beyond other games that are out. if you think I am wrong say so. Stop with this pansy stuff and show me. Seriously it's getting old.... I feel I really am being fair and pretty unbiased. I say I prefer one console over the other. I offer reasons why. they don't have to be yours. I say what I personally think about a game. I'm not saying the 360 is a total waste of money. I even said gears 2 is a great game... I really am just trying to have a civil conversation. I want opinions and not anon disagrees...

As for my Greywulf comment. he offered you guys facts. He offered you guys comparisons. he offered a lot that is substantial in his argument. I am not a friend of his. I don't think I have ever said one word for or against him but he has his point and at least some of you are being constructive with responses to him. not just promises and hate flinging. he's backing himself up and that is something very few people do here.

The truth is every year people say "OoOoO just you sony fanboyz wait for Halo 3. It's graphics will stomp anything on your bluray player"... Every year it's a new game for either system and every year it's big promises and little delivery for the most part all around. Stop with the graphics and concentrate on the games then... Thats why i said above why I like LBP so much. It delivered in a HUGE way for me. amazing from concept to simplicity to creativity to visuals to sound... I could not imagine anything better... You don't have to agree but you also don't have to hate on me for thinking that... however if you disagree at least be courteous enough to say something in reply... "jinxstar. Your confused. The Trpile aliasing effects of water particles in Gears 2 out does anything in uncharted because of the 12:24 scaling of the angled light sources"... even though I'll have no clue I will say "Ok you got prettier water. Good stuff. You are right"... Really not that bad... STOP WITH THE HATE.

360 man5394d ago

all i have to say is

FORZA 3

8 CARS

1 MILLION POLYGONS EACH PER CAR

PS3 BEAT DAT

ultimolu5394d ago (Edited 5394d ago )

Jinxstar, all I have to say is that it happens to the best of us. You made some really good points so don't worry about the disagrees. Some people can't form good rebuttals so their only defense are disagrees.

Elven65394d ago

To everyone hating on Unreal Engine and touting Splinter Cell: Conviction: Splinter Cell: Conviction runs on a engine whose core is Unreal Engine.

jden285393d ago

There are advantages to the directx api and disadvantages like the author says. What he doesn't talk about is that the x360 was launched when dx8 was promenent but that the xeon gpu has elements of dx9,10, and 11 such as hardware tasselation something the ps3 doesn't do on a hardware level. Nevertheless, msoft has announced the release of it's new debug/programming kits and developers have already stated that it will allow them to get more out of the x360. So all the peolpe that were saying that the x360 was maxed out, you were right, under it's old api enviorment the x360 couldn't do much more than it had. However, the new update unlocks many of the latent capabilities of the x360 that have yet to be utilised.

So I ask you all what do you think the x360's games will be like after this api/debug kit update?

thewhoopimen5393d ago (Edited 5393d ago )

Xi... thats was very sad that you had to pull a PC Gary's Mod LD4 screenshot as your Uncharted character comparison... I mean did you honestly have to sink that low to make your point?

I think Forza3 is a great example of what the 360 can pull with polygons. I don't think what the 360 can pull in terms of polys has ever been disputed from the ps3 camp. What has been disputed and is quite noticeable from 1st party development on the ps3 is the sheer number of physics and particle simulations that occur WITH the similar polygon count. Consider this... I still have yet to see sparks on a 360 title bounce from lets say... gunfire or grenade explosion. Its always a cheap "go into the ground" effect.

You might think, "so what? whats the big deal?" The big deal is that these are physics calculations being done in real time by a really powerful processor SPU and its doing it for 10-20 other guns and grenades exploding in and around the same time, coupled with smoke, wind, etc.

I'm sorry but when you play both consoles, you tend to notice these things. That and how multiplat games seem to reuse a ton of objects and textures due to "space" constraints from the media. Go play some ps3 1st titles and judge for yourself.

+ Show (38) more repliesLast reply 5393d ago
TheMART5395d ago

Nope it isn't. The minor negative points aren't doing much. And this has to be quoted:

"If all of this sounds pretty harsh on Microsoft, it's worth noting that there is a ton of excellent reasons for standing by this requirement. It means that the platform holder can update the system software and hardware specification and ensure that all games past, present and future will work on all iterations of the console.

More than that, in the here and now, it can easily be argued that the implementation of DirectX is a key reason that the Xbox 360's tools and development environment are considered to be generally excellent. Not only that, but game makers are familiar with the standard, and code is easily portable to and from PC.

A firm adherence to DirectX is also good news for gamers too: it makes the chances of full backwards compatibility on Xbox Next a far more realistic prospect..."

And that makes the use of the fixed API's to a certain win for the console market.

mxdan5395d ago

I have to agree with this guy. If it is affecting it though it's only a minor thing.

sak5005395d ago

Brahattck you're the 2nd account of gwave keep bubbling yourself. - bubs for both of you.

BRACHATTACK5395d ago

I was waiting for somebody to say that.

I don't even have the guy on psn, all i know is that he used to have about 8 bubbles, now he's on 2 FFS.

I will probably lose all my bubbles for speaking out, but i don't care, trolls have ruined this site....

BTW, - Bubbles for you too ;)

Blogz4Fanboys5395d ago

gwave lost his bubbles because he is a rampant unashamed fanboy, and a pathetic troll.

seriously, it's him and the people like him that make b4f such a terrible place to visit.

ShabzS5395d ago

dude gwave is a lunatic fanboy ... and the worst part is the guy thinks he is actually objective and unbiased ... thats the worst kind of fanboy

Xi5395d ago (Edited 5395d ago )

Microsoft is making some changes to the direct X api in accordance to the release of DX11 and windows 7. The X-engine is more then just a set of tools.

emk20045395d ago

dont jump on me plz but can 360s graphic card do dx11.

dont the card have to support it or somthing like that or can that be added or no idk much about computers and stuff.

if it can great if no oh well its games will still own look at halo it looks nowhere near kz2 but its still an amazing game.

evrfighter5395d ago

r u serious or were you trying to point out the obvious?

nobody has a dx11 card yet.

Show all comments (80)
60°

Pacific Rim Pinball comes to Pinball FX

This could be fun as they make great tables. Go big or go extinct. Prime your senses for a neural handshake and step into the cockpit of a Jaeger. It is on you to cancel the apocalypse when Pacific Rim Pinball comes to Pinball FX on May 16.

130°

Looking Back At 2008, An Unbelievably Incredible Year Of Video Game Releases

Huzaifa from eXputer: "2008 was home to the likes of Call of Duty: World at War, Dead Space, GTA 4, Far Cry 2, Left 4 Dead, and many other hits, which is outright remarkable."

ChasterMies2d ago

Some of these low paid video game “news” writers weren’t born before 2007.

just_looken1d 19h ago

Here here

Those that were around before 2000's i am sure are like me that think we entered a world of non readers or those that follow without question.

I can not wait to see fallout 3 a goty game even though it was about water with non content until you add the dlc/updates then you got the performance/crashing

CrimsonWing692d ago

I don’t think anything can compare to 2023

lucasnooker2d ago

1998 - the best year in gaming! Metal gear solid, crash bandicoot 3, medievil, half life, ocarina of time, thief, tenchu, resident evil 2, Spyro, tomb raider 3, oddworld abes exodus, banjo kazooie.

It was a different breed of a gaming era. You’ll never understand what it was like back then. The aura of gaming, it was different!

KyRo2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I second this. Gaming was a lot more varied and fun than it is today. I'm 35 so getting on compared to some here but I got to see all the changes from NES up to now but I've never felt so disappointed in any generation than I have this current gen. I was expecting more from this generation rather than prettier versions of games that came before it. Game mechanics have become so refined that alot of games feel the same and has done for a while now.

Maybe it's time to have a break for a while. I love gaming but I don't feel I get much fun in the traditional sense out of it anymore.

CrimsonWing692d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil 2, Abe’s Exodus, and Ocarina of Time are the only things from that list that I liked.

Here’s the 2023 game releases that I personally liked… and big releases that I didn’t care for:

- Dead Space Remake
- Wo Long Dynatsy
- Resident Evil 4 Remake
- Diablo 4
- Fire Emblem Engage
- Hogwarts Legcay
- Street Fighter 6
- Hi-Fi Rush
- Like a Dragon: Ishin
- Octopath Traveler 2
- Final Fantasy Pixel Remasters
- Final Fanatsy XVI (actually ended up not liking this, but it was still a big deal release)
- Baldur’s Gate 3
- Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon
- Lies of P
- Mortal Kombat 1
- Marvel’s Spider-Man 2
- Starfield (Ended up hating this one, but big release)
- Super Mario Bros. Wonder
- Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom (I’m an old-school Zelda fan, but didn’t really enjoy this game)
- Alan Wake 2

I mean, honestly I’ve never seen a year of major IP releases like that, ever.

Profchaos2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Isn't it just a generational thing realistically.

I've been gaming since way back and I some of my favourite games go as far back as the late 80s for me each generation has a year or two of game changing releases one after another before an inevitable dry spell.

I kind of agree gaming had a different feel games hit different because we didn't have the internet nothing got spoiled and you really had to put in the effort to beat a puzzle which could set entire groups of people looking for a solution. But most importantly games were experimental and not as cookie cutter as today even basics like controls were not universal today r2 is shoot l2 is ads garunteed you can't deviate from that in a shooter back then it could of been square, R1 or R1 and circle nothing was standard.

But as time moves on a new generation picks up their controller they are going to be interested in different things that PS1 demo disc with the t Rex blew our primitive 16 bit brains back on launch but to kids today it's laughable.
The new gen of kids coming into to hobby seem to value different things to us there seems to be a huge focus on online play, streamers, gaming personalities, and social experiences, convience of digital downloads. To me I value none of that but that's ok like my parents not liking the band's I would listen to its just the natural cycle.

Gameseeker_Frampt1d 23h ago

Just about every year in the 7th generation was great and something we most likely won't experience again.

2009 for example had Assassin's Creed 2, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Dragon Age: Origins, Uncharted 2, Halo 3: ODST, Killzone 2, Borderlands, Bayonetta, and Demon's Souls to name a few.

just_looken1d 19h ago

It still amazes me we got over 7 rockstar games ps2/ps3 but 3 for the ps3/ps4/ps5

Dragon age 1-3 and mass effect 1-3 in 7ish years what a generation.

120°

6 Fun Games Where You Actually Play As The Bad Guy

While the mainstream media always sees things turning in favor of the hero, here are 6 games that own being a bad guy.

Profchaos2d ago

Pretty much all of these games listed are based around a morality system you don't have to be bad and you don't have to be good.

It seems to have left out some real amazing games like red dead redemption 1/2,ass effect and true crime la/ny

Tacoboto2d ago

Armored Core VI?

Ok, I'm really missing something here. Just beat chapter 3 earlier this evening, unlocked A-rank Arena fights. I'm not seeing or sensing any branching paths or morality system and I've done every side mission and arena fight available to me up to that fight.

Is something big coming soon to branch the story?

banger882d ago

No mention of Grand Theft Auto? Saints Row (original trilogy), Manhunt? Also The Suffering (depending on the ending you get).

ChasterMies2d ago

Trevor in GTA 6 is a sadist and psychopath who dabbles in cannibalism. Should be top of the list. These game “news” sites should hire people that know games.