Microsoft comes under fire from BBC's Watchdog programme

Microsoft is set to come under pressure in tonight's edition of consumer affairs show Watchdog as the investigative team looks into potential faults with the Xbox 360.

GamesIndustry.biz has learned that the programme will focus on the 'ring of death' problem, as it's been nicknamed by gamers, where three red lights appear around the console's power button and the machine stops working.

The problem appears to occur much more frequently in the first batch of Xbox 360 units produced.

[Marty8370]

When will Microsoft ever learn.lol

[gazza]

but at least there machine does exactly what they promised and more.

[ACE]

i can smell sony bs when i saw that , they must have had alot to do with it :) how desparet can u get huh sony ?.

oh aint it a coincident that the ps3 comes out in the uk in like 6 weeks

[techie]

Uh no. Watchdog is a very respectable wised-up UK show and the wip the hell out of companies that have charged customers for faulty systems that go over a certain amount of complaints. It's an issue and it needs to be dealt with. Let's hope they do.

To 'was a sony fan' below: Well yes there are of course good stories as to be expected. I've had my ps2 since launch day and had no problems. But then there's lots of people who haven't. It's poor.

[ACE]

i see what ur saying BUT its to much of a coincidente that the ps3 comes out in the uk very soon . very strange.

as for sorting out duff machines hell yeah so they should .

the only thing is i've had my 360 for over 1 year and no problems concidering i play on it every day . i only know one other person who had a problem but microsoft changed/repaired it free and he got it back in like 3 days now thats fast service u really cant complayn about that.

[malachi23]

When will YOU learn?, your the first to post in an article about the Xbox360.

We get you support the PS3, that's great and your choice.But why do you have to make comments like that?.

Is it fear that the Xbox360 COULD win the next gen war?...or are you just alittle kid with too much time on his or her hands?.

[gazza]

and i know of at least 3 others all replaced free. My sons replaced free although it only had 2 days warranty left, and in all cases the replacement arrived within 10 days.

[Syko]

But any way you slice this one it is bad news. Watchdog can't/Won't be paid off easily or at all for that matter

[gogators]

I have been concerned with the reliablity of this system ever since both my release cores went down within days of first use. My experience with MS customer support was excellent and both replacements have been problem free for over a year now.

[xfrgtr]

hahahahahaha

[power091999]

4 people total that had to get thier Xbox360 replaced, after less than a year?

That's not good.

Was it the "ring of death", or another problem?

[gazza]

Yeah T'was the ring of death

[THWIP]

UPDATE: Microsoft has now told the BBC that "most people with an Xbox 360 have an outstanding experience, and there is no systemic issue". They say each incident is unique and is looked at on a case by case basis, and have given one of the consumers featured on tonight's show a replacement unit and a new game.

I don't think it's a coincidence that this program would come out just WEEKS before the PS3 launches in Europe.....even though this issue is something they could have just as easily covered months ago. It's not crazy talk to suggest Sony has paid big $$ for this spot to run on the BBC.

[gazza]

just the sort of thing they would do.

[DJ]

http://channel9.msdn.com/Sh...
http://www.digg.com/gaming_...
http://forums.xbox.com/9325...

This one's for humor, not horror:
http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

Here are some IGN articles chronicaling the 360 issues:
http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...
http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...
http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

If you don't think the problem is significant, consider that not only was Microsoft forced to extend warranties from 90 days to an entire year, they spent nearly $300 million in 2006 fixing broken Xbox 360 consoles (and that's with the occasional $140 repair fee).

[techie]

I do think that the Sony launch may have something to do with it - only because the media in the UK is really turning on to game consoles now and the next generation. BUT for a complaint to be handled by watchdog they need to have a certain amount of people complaining - people that won xbox360's...so Xbox fanboys complaining, not Sony people - and so they will put it on the show.

Whether replaced or not, it's still a pooed up afair - but still at least you've got your next generation console and get amazing games for it. Sony are waiting in the wings for what seems like an eternity.

[THAMMER1]

But I have 2 friends that had to get replacements. This was a year ago I have not heard too much about it since then.

I seems that there were plastic seals covering the fans or the GPU that were melting and causing the system to over heat. The manufacturers were not properly checking the protective plastic seals before shutting the encasement.

One friend who opened his to see what was going on. There was a thin layer of melted plastic along the fans. So he scraped it off and !Walla! it worked with out any problems. I do not suggest that any one do this if you have a warranty. This may not be the same error you are getting.

[Marty8370]

One gamer texted in and said he had 9 X360 consoles all with 'Red Ring Of Death'.This is a good reason to stay clear of Microsoft hardware of any kind,as the build quality sucks.

[gazza]

No xbots don't bite they just play good games, and they play them Now! The GAMER that texted in was a bit stupid, coz he didn't ask for his money back, if this GAMER wasn't just a PS3 fan trying to give the 360 bad press

[techie]

Microsoft make quality products and throw a hell of a lot of money at them for research and please their market. One of the most successful companies ever and they seek to please. So don't do all this 'their hardware sucks' - it's the best out at the moment.

[sparco]

PS3 Fan - "...build quality sucks"

i could say the same about your mom PS3 fan.
But i dont. So shut up.

[Havince]

isnt 3/4's tho its a full circle. but i find if i turn it off n on again itl work. im kinda finding my xbox freewes ONCE after 1st being turnd on without fail.....after that it works fin

[Antan]

I just watched Watchdog, it was no big deal. They recieved 240 complaints but covered 2 of those compliants in the programme. Both machines were out of warranty, though one of the guys had a replacement but that too was faulty. Things break, so what? Also a funny moment was when the announcer mentioned one of the unfortunate guys "favourite games" was GOW, then proceeded to show footage of GRAW!!! This wasn`t really anything Microsoft will lose sleep over.

[STICKzophrenic]

I've gone through f*cking hell with mine here recently, which is a launch console.

Early to mid January I got the flashing red lights, called customer support, got the pre-paid shipping box, sent it in, and then got the SAME console back three weeks after the call to customer support. Fifteen minutes into playing SC:DA, it started flickering lines, shapes and lights on the screen, same with GoW. I called customer support, they told me I had to send it in again, so I asked to speak to a supervisor. He told me the same thing. I asked if I could get a new console and was told no, the only thing they could do for me was to send me a gift game (PGR3) and for me to send it in again for repair. That was a Thursday evening. Fast forward to Wednesday of the following week, I called to find out where my pre-paid shipping box was, and it had just been sent out that day. I asked to speak to a supervisor and why it took so long for them to send out a box for someone who was having to send in their console for a second time, he said they "might have ran out of boxes at the warehouse or something more important might have came up". I finally got my shipping box yesterday and sent it out, so it's back in transit.

Long story short, I've spent a ton of money on this console, games and accessories, and now I've been unable to play for more than a month. It's safe to say that I am very unhappy right now, and I will be furious if I get it back and it still is not functional and they tell me my only option is to send it in again.

Oh yeah, my gift game got to me an entire week before my shipping box. How's that for f*cking irony?

[uxo22]

Your story was going well until you said you got the same console back. I have never seen ANYONE that got the exact same console back. Normally, when they send out a replacement, the broken xbox is till being processed for repairs. So, I stopped reading your post right after you said that. Credibility lost!

[STICKzophrenic]

Unless they peeled my serial number off the back, and put it on a new console, it's the same console. I wrote it down for my own reference, and when I got it back, I checked the serial number on the back and it was the same one.

[candystop]

I had a launch console that died on me and they sent me back a new one! I'm not sure what happened with your 360 but I doubt they sent you the same 360 back unless ups just returned it by accident! Also I don't care what anybody says because the 360 is an impressive piece of hardware with some killer games on the way!

[STICKzophrenic]

Why would I make this sh*t up? I have nothing to gain by saying this stuff.

UPS didn't return it by accident. For one, I tracked my outgoing package all the way to McAllen, TX. Then once it got there, I kept calling Customer Support to get the tracking number on the package coming back. It was in a different box, with different packaging.

I got the box, opened it up, and verified that it was mine based on the SERIAL NUMBER on the back of the console. I had a completely different problem that when I sent it off. Customer Service told me they can't send me a new console or a replacement console, and that I have to send it in for repair AGAIN.

Not that it would do any good, but I could probably copy and paste all the freakin' tracking info from all the different packages.

F*ck it, here it is.

Here's the info from my Xbox going out the first time.

Type: Package
Status: Delivered
Delivered on: 01/23/2007 10:02 A.M.
Signed by: MITCH JONES
Location: DOCK
Delivered to: MCALLEN, TX, US
Service Type: 3 DAY SELECT
Weight: 8.00 Lbs

Package Progress
Location Date Local Time Description
MC ALLEN,
TX, US 01/23/2007 10:02 A.M. DELIVERY
01/23/2007 9:00 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY
01/23/2007 7:00 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
CORPUS CHRISTI,
TX, US 01/23/2007 4:36 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/23/2007 12:09 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
AUSTIN,
TX, US 01/22/2007 8:48 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/22/2007 5:37 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
DALLAS/FT. WORTH A/P,
TX, US 01/22/2007 1:42 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
DALLAS/FT. WORTH A/P,
TX, US 01/20/2007 4:02 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LOUISVILLE,
KY, US 01/19/2007 4:09 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/19/2007 12:37 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
RICHMOND,
VA, US 01/19/2007 2:54 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
RICHMOND,
VA, US 01/17/2007 6:22 P.M. PICKUP SCAN
US 01/03/2007 7:50 P.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

Here's the info from my Xbox comign back to me.

Type: Package
Status: Delivered
Delivered on: 02/01/2007 4:37 P.M.
Signed by: ******
Location: RESIDENTIAL
Delivered to: PETERSBURG, VA, US
Shipped or Billed on: 01/29/2007
Service Type: 3 DAY SELECT
Weight: 8.00 Lbs

Package Progress
Location Date Local Time Description
RICHMOND,
VA, US 02/01/2007 4:37 P.M. DELIVERY
02/01/2007 12:32 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY
RICHMOND,
VA, US 01/31/2007 11:10 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LAUREL,
MD, US 01/31/2007 8:04 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/31/2007 6:37 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
PHILADELPHIA,
PA, US 01/31/2007 4:22 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
PHILADELPHIA,
PA, US 01/30/2007 6:24 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LOUISVILLE,
KY, US 01/30/2007 4:38 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/30/2007 10:58 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
HOUSTON,
TX, US 01/30/2007 8:05 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/30/2007 7:11 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
01/30/2007 6:41 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/30/2007 1:39 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
SAN ANTONIO,
TX, US 01/29/2007 10:14 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/29/2007 9:59 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
MC ALLEN,
TX, US 01/29/2007 5:12 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
01/29/2007 4:24 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN
US 01/29/2007 7:42 P.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

Here's the info from my second pre-paid shipping box.

Type: Package
Status: Delivered
Delivered on: 02/12/2007 12:26 P.M.
Location: FRONT DOOR
Delivered to: PETERSBURG, VA, US
Shipped or Billed on: 02/07/2007
Service Type: 3 DAY SELECT
Weight: 1.00 Lb

Package Progress
Location Date Local Time Description
RICHMOND,
VA, US 02/12/2007 12:26 P.M. DELIVERY
RICHMOND,
VA, US 02/11/2007 11:23 P.M. DESTINATION SCAN
RICHMOND,
VA, US 02/09/2007 11:24 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LAUREL,
MD, US 02/09/2007 8:51 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
02/09/2007 7:06 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
PHILADELPHIA,
PA, US 02/09/2007 4:15 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
PHILADELPHIA,
PA, US 02/08/2007 6:19 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LOUISVILLE,
KY, US 02/08/2007 4:32 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
02/08/2007 11:00 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
HOUSTON,
TX, US 02/08/2007 7:44 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
02/08/2007 7:07 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
02/08/2007 6:38 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
02/08/2007 5:01 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
MC ALLEN,
TX, US 02/07/2007 9:42 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
02/07/2007 6:42 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN
US 02/07/2007 8:26 P.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

And finally, here's the most up-to-date info from my Xbox in transit for the second time.

Type: Package
Status: In Transit
Rescheduled Delivery: 02/15/2007
Shipped to: MCALLEN, TX, US
Service Type: 3 DAY SELECT
Weight: 8.00 Lbs

Package Progress
Location Date Local Time Description
LOUISVILLE,
KY, US 02/13/2007 12:43 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
RICHMOND,
VA, US 02/13/2007 2:48 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
US 02/01/2007 6:37 P.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

Don't believe me if you don't want to. I love my 360 and all the games I've purchased. I'm just frustrated that I haven't been able to play it for more than a month now.

[candystop]

Ok I get what your saying and apologize if I came across as saying you were making it up! For whatever reason you where shafted which is ashame because you sound like a true fan that's been messed all over! I still can't believe you typed all that and would be so pissed my self if I had to wait that long for something thats supposedly covered under warranty!

[rowdy 1]

just like I thought. Glad I sold mine. Just this weekend.

[Bullseye]

I watched this programme about an hour ago and they actually highligthed only two customers with problems, but stated they had received all of twenty or so complaints to the show.Microsoft have since replaced one guys console AND given him some free games as well. Now, forgive me, but twenty odd complaints doesn't seem too outrageous to me. Watchdog is a consumer protection show on the BBC, which is usually fair and accurate.This particular article seems a little out of proportion to the problem.Still, if it keeps Microsoft on its toes all well and good.

[NextGen24Gamer]

And they all work perfectly fine. My family and I get hours upon hours of use out of them. I keep them well ventilated. Many consumers them in closed in areas or put things on top of their 360. The vents on top are for a reason. Your high tech Game Console needs to breath folks. Commnon sense. One of my family members is a manager at EB games. He was telling me stories about the condition peoples 360 would be in when they would come exchange it under the EB games warranty. The fact of the matter is....when you sell a high tech gaming console to young adults and kids.....they just don't take care of it like they should in MANY cases. Its like a young person when they buy their first car....many times they run it to death...they don't put oil in it like they should...they don't get tune ups as frequent as your suppose to...and eventually the engine dies ahead of its time. Some people just don't understand or appreciate the value of things. Until its broke. Then the Car is a piece of garbage...it just can't be that they didn't take care of it right....Nooooo Never that.

[DJ]

Jeezus, Topgamer. What'd you do, force your relatives to camp out with you? I know you want to defend Microsoft with all your heart, but give it a rest. I don't hear a bunch of reports of PS3s or Wiis failing.

IGN.com has had something like 17 Xbox 360 consoles fail on them, which is an astounding number. Their PS3's on the other hand work perfectly fine. Then again, MS is a software, not a hardware company. Maybe we should be blaming Flextronix instead of them (if indeed it is a hardware problem).

[candystop]

You sir are out of control with your constant bickering and slanted low blow moves at anything 360! The 360 is a great machine with many great features and titles on the way that will continue to out do the competition! Also what does DJ stand for?....Are you David Jaffe and what is it you get out of spreading negative news twisting news about anything 360?

[JPomper]

My 360 was the first out of the gamestop at launch and is running just fine. I don't regret purchasing at launch one bit.

[Andronix]

Did you see that at the end of the show the presenter quoted one viewer who had emailed the show to say that he was on his 9th xbox 360. Surely that cant be true?

[R Swipe]

I had a console since launch in the UK. After six months it started freezing up. This was replaced by the retailler as it was inside the warranty period.

Second console displayed the dreaded red ring three weeks before christmas, quite literally just over a week out of the warranty period. Spoke to the retailler who did not want to know. Spoke to MS customer support, who after going through the routine of various tests, agreed to send me a label to return the console to the repair centre. After I enquired about repair costs, I was advised that this would be taken care of. The courier duly collected the console.

The last working day before christmas, a console was delivered back to me. I have had no problems since.

The only thing this has cost me is a few phone calls and approximately two and a half weeks of lost gaming time. No big deal in the overall picture. Personally, I take my hat off to microsoft for dealing with me in the manner that they did.

I realise that this maybe the exception to the rule, but as MS comment on watchdog stated each case is treated individually.

[Monchichi025]

I bought my 360 the first day it came out. (Stood in line 10 hours at Kmart to get the damn thing!) I've played it almost everyday day since and it has NEVER given me a problem.

If you know anything about marketing you know this is just an example of how someone with a negative experience will make a whole lot more noise then 20 people with a positive one.

So is that show going to do a show about the PS3???? My little brothers PS3 stopped working after a whole month!!! Do a show about that Watchdog!!!

[Shadow Flare]

you never hear of ps3's breaking down. Yet the first batch of 360's seemed to explode if you opened the disc tray? If the first batch of the 360's had the most problems, that means they should have fixed the problems before they released, no? They even had a huge console drought because they're manufacturing system was so poor. Microsoft launched TOO early with an unreliable system PURELY to get the jump on the market. Microsoft abandoned xbox owners and give early 360 adopters crap systems. Way to go

[techie]

Perhaps. But seemed to have worked...not much bad press for Microsoft...seem to loved. Yet SOny has lots of bad press, and most of it not really waranted. It's just a thing that happens. I find it surprising the support Americans give to one of the richest companies in the world.

[NextGen24Gamer]

Your joking right? You haven't hear about all the PS3's that freeze up on people? Every time I go into my local Walmart, Best Buy, ect.... There is a 50% chance no one is playing the ps3 due to it being froze. It was reported at TGS as well. Every "NEW" tech has its problems. And Sony knows all about defective parts with the Battery problems they had with lab tops. Once again...With a piece of new tech equipment you have to take care of it and make sure you keep it in an open area. Don't drop it...spill something on it....pull the cords out the wrong way...ect.... My friends mom was vaccuming the house and bumped his 360 with the vaccum cleaner...then he went to play a game afterward and the 3 red lights was on his 360. It was obvious that it was caused by his mom hitting it on accident with the vaccuum cleaner...but the good news is MS sent him out a new one free of charge within a week. It helps that we live here in Seattle. But my point is..... Take care of your high tech systems. I have 6 launch systmes from day one....and they all work perfect. I wonder why....

P.S. I'm not saying that if you take care of your 360...it will never break...I'm saying that much of the malfuncitioned systems had to do with customers not taking care of their sytem properly. I know this because I have a family member who works at EB games and he tells me about the condition people return their systems in when they want to exchange it....I realize that every console has a defective unit ratio....and I'm sure the 360's is within normal range....But I know for a fact that the 3 red rings are caused from multiple things....One being the sytem being bumped,dropped, or improperly ventilated.

[STICKzophrenic]

Mine worked perfectly from Christmas '05 until Jan. this year. Then I had a console update and an update for GoW and then it stopped working. I've never dropped it, bumped it, spilled anything on it, mishandled it in any manner, or kept it in a non-ventilated area.

[Shadow Flare]

I'm sure people treat their ps3 exactly the same as how they treat their 360. But the 360 has had SO many stories surrounding it of broken systems. You only have to listen to the IGN podcasts and you'll realise. A few of the IGN team have had theirs replaced 3 times, one persons bricked up when she updated her 360 and the main nintendo guys 360 (which he apparently rarely plays) also broke. They reckoned about half their office has had trouble with their 360's. Maybe you got lucky topgamer but i asure you the defective unit ratio is not normal. Why would their be an article on it if it was normal? Maybe a few ps3's have crashed at shows or at shops. The 360's i see at GAME stores are also not always on. But the comment sections on this site are flame bent and 360 fanboys would have brought up the ps3 if it does break too much. But it doesn't. The 360 does and thats why it gets brought up on these comment sections (and apparently Watch Dog)

[MikeIsOnFire84]

I have a launch console and it has worked perfect.I have taken really good care of it as well.My friend bought a launch console and he is on his third unit now.I know for a fact he takes really good care of his consoles so to say " just take care of it and thats the solution" is alittle off.Some of these units Microsoft sent out were just complete crap.

[FeralPhoenix]

I noticed you make some excellent observations in your posts....seems that you try to post fair objective comments about both consoles, thats cool. As for Americans support being surprising for one of the richest companies in the world....well I don't think its all that surprising because I think M$ makes some great products, people will always support that, also as far as the 360 goes it was actually made from the feedback of survey's from actual gamers, and dev's -of course all companies use feedback to make consumer products better but M$ made it a FOCUS to include the avg gamer and implement the things that people asked for....I know because alot of xbox owners like me were asked to give our input about the next xbox for such a huge successful company that shows you value your customers and I don't know if you have ever contacted M$ for anything but their customer service is outstanding, yeah I'm sure there are horror stories but things happen. Also, M$ may be one of the richest companies in the world but Bill Gates is one of the biggest contributers to charity in the world. -For all the hate, the man GIVES away alot of money, sure it could also be for PR but what's the alternative. Yeah, people could say yeah but "he's filthy rich", but there are alot of filthy rich people who horde every last dime so really you can't knock him for enjoying good PR.

Now on topic I do agree from reports that I've seen that the "early batch"/launch consoles had a higher rate than normal....I also think its being exaggerated because the "angry" customer speaks the loudest, but at any rate I think its a accurate statement. My thing is that you have to look at what M$ did about it....they extended the warranty, mailed refunds etc. and yes it cost M$ $$$=customer service Also talk about M$ releasing to early because of this small problem is silly because in fact it put M$ in the position they are in today....and if I recall correctly its Sony's launch that has recieved the "heavy" bad press, which IMO is not undeserved when you consider they basicly had a year to turn any "errors" of M$'s launch into positives for their launch.

[uxo22]

I have both a 360 and a PS3 neither of the have given me any problems (knock on wood). However, I have logged some MAJOR hours on my 360 and it has proven to be running great (purchased Apr 06). Now, my PS3 on the other hand has not had much action (Tired of playing Resistance) I'm afraid that once some good games start to come in for the PS3 and I start logging the hours on it the warranty will be out. And I've dealt with sony's tech support on out of warranty repairs for Stereo equip and computers, and they are not very sympathetic once they have your money in their pockets.

[MikeGdaGod]

i'm now on my third 360, (the first kept freezing after about a week, and the second had the red lights a month later). fortunately, i had an extended warranty on it so it wasn't a big deal to me.

i also have an extended warranty on my ps3 so i'm doing my own research. sony says ps3 is a "on all the time system" so i never turn it off or put it to sleep. i haven't turned it off since Dec 1st. i just let the OS run while i watch tv or whatever. i wanna see if i'll have the same sort of problems...so far its ok, not even warm to the touch

[AllroundGamer]

thx for sharing your experience with the PS3, but you could try to run a game for some days, so the PS3 wouldn't be in idle phase. I couldn't let my xbox360 run 24/7 for a couple of days, cause it creates more noise than my PC, which is also in my bedroom...