IBM cancels Cell Processor development

PSUni writes:

"It has been confirmed that IBM will be pulling out of Cell development, with their current PowerXCell 8i to be the company's last entrance in the technology.

The Cell Processor was originally the brain child of 'The Father of PlayStation' Ken Kutaragi. It was later co-developed by Sony, IBM and Toshiba; making it's way into the PlayStation 3, TV's and super computers.

Featuring a central general-purpose processor, the Cell includes a number of co-processing units with internal memory, known as SPUs. Greatly increasing performance, the Cell's SPUs have been notoriously difficult to develop for, with a number of developers, such as Naughty Dog, making significant breakthroughs of late.

IBM's most recent development in the Cell Processor's design is the PoweXCell 8i, which is featured in the second most powerful supercomputer in the world; Roadrunner.

However, this is where Cell will end for IBM."

[PotNoodle]

"IBM's most recent development in the Cell Processor's design is the PoweXCell 8i, which is featured in the second most powerful supercomputer in the world; Roadrunner."

I hardly think that is showing that the cell is a failure. IBM is one of the core companies that lead the way in this industry, they are constantly making new technology - so i guess for them, its time to move on.

[zeeshan]

Just a couple of days ago, there was an article here on N4G stating that PS3 was a failure and that their marketing department was responsible. I was shocked to even have come across such kind of an article. Calling PS3 a failure but think about if. If today's journalists can call the third fastest selling console, currently, the most wanted console a failure then surely a fanboy can call a processor a failure! Lol

On the other hand, it's a good thing that IBM wants to move on. The world can't just linger on the same tech for ever. There needs to be more research, more development. Sony must have known this from the beginning and I bet that they already have plans for PS4 and the next cell processor. These companies are giants. They think on the levels you can't possibly imagine. Just look how IBM, Sony and TOSHIBA worked together to build the cell prcessor. The same TOSHIBA was supporting HD-DVD, a direct competition to BD. It's all business and what IBM is doing is business and it's good business. More research = more development and combine these both, you get great and cheaper products for the future :)

[AAACE5]

All it means is IBM is ready to move on to something else and feel that they have done as much as they could in evolving the Cell processor! They do this with every processor, so all this means is that it's time for them to move on to something else.

The version of Cell in the Ps3 won't change, so this really doesn't do anything bad for the gaming community. The only person who this may hurt is a fanboy who thought the Cell processor would be the end all for processors and would be viable for the next 20-30 years.

Anyone who is into PC's will tell you that stuff like processors and graphics cards get outdated 3-6 months after you buy them. As console owners, we are considered lucky, because when they make these consoles, they intentionally make them kind of hard to develop for so that the true power of it is unlocked towards the end of its cycle.

[Raf1k1]

Also, it's talking about development not production. As far as I know they're two different things.

What I understand from this is that IBM will stop developing (i.e. improving on the cell) but will continue to produce as long as Sony still has a need for them.

[edhe]

As long as Sony keep the cell then nothing to really worry about, samsung are still making them and the design of the chips has come along way in these few years.

If this forces Sony to use another CPU design for their next console then unless they pump out super-awesome-wonderful dev tools to compensate then their console will be the blacksheep again.

[XBLGT B1GMACNFR1ES]

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haha well done new account just for this article. have fun with all your accounts :)

[raztad]

@CancelationCell

This should spell bad news for Micro then. Considering the xbox cpu is some sort of Cell spinoff. I read that in building xbox cpu (both the cell and xbox's) are made by IBM) the IBM - MS team took more than one input from the Cell team. Funny.

[sorceror171]

@"CancellationOfTheCell&q uot; (wow, trollish name) - The PS2 was a unique hardware platform very different from every other system out there, and that didn't stop anyone from developing for it. (Hell, *everyone* developed for it.)

Even *if* the PS4 uses something besides the Cell, it'll almost certainly have a similar structure ('standard' CPU + array of special-purpose processors) - indeed, the article actually says that. Getting experience with the Cell and how it works is actually a *smart* thing to do in terms of future-proofing, because no other consoles today use this scheme, and it's the wave of the future, even in PCs.

[MNicholas]

How many cpus are projected to sell 100 million units?

It was the first mass market CPU with 8 programmable processors.

From a raw performance stand-point, it's revolutionary. Nothing else comes close. It's still, by a huge margin, the most powerful mass market CPU on the planet.

In absolute terms, it's much faster than the $1000 Core i7 for gaming and multimedia applications (however, i7 destroys it for running Microsoft Word and MSN Messenger). In terms of performance/watt the Cell's advantage is even greater.

Hardly a failure. Hardcore developers love the Cell.

While the Cell's SPE's are blistering fast, it does have an Achilles heel. The dual-threaded VMX-128 PowerPC core (also called the PPU) is very very slow.

Was IBM attempting to sabotage Microsoft by putting three of those mollases slow cores together to create the 360's CPU (Xenon)? Surely IBM knew how slow these were. They've got plenty of benchmarks on their web-site to prove it!

As for the PS4, it will probably follow the PS3 model of hardware backwards compatibility which will be eventually phased out.

Toshiba, the other partner in the Cell consortium (IBM, Sony, Toshiba) is manufacturing the Cell for the PS3 and has already put out various products based around it for it's own purposes, including it's own motion control technology.

[Xgamerzus]

This just proves that the design and the prototype that is the Cell is going to live on !!!as it has set a new paradigm for development and design and power(more over cost!!)!! in Muliticore CPU GPU processors. All this will be carried over in the new designs of Cell that Sony will probably fund and make or who knows what next??

All I know is MUlticore is here and sony helped assure that its real and the potential is amazing!!!!
Thank Sony for taking ASMP and Cell to the industry and making them learn it and be aware of it cause this is the future!!!
And guess what they are now pushing 3d (omg) $$$$ but my wallet is 2d..lol

The Cell is a success cause it proved how viable the design and power is in the right hands And Im sure GT5 and Resistance 3 and Killzone 3 will prove this!!!!
Bank on that!!!!

299.00 it does everything !!!!!
Cell is like a bunch of nano bots working together to kick your ass!!!lol

[Foliage]

You should watch your wording:
"third fastest selling console"
That would be the 360 (if you don't include handhelds). The PS3 is selling faster than the 360, and it has since launch. If you mentioned "the platform with the third highest total sales this generation" you would be closer to the truth, but the 360 had a year headstart (a year and a half in some important areas) and their lead is dwindling quickly. Make no mistake, the 360 is in last when you are talking about "fastest selling".

[jden28]

Look IBM doesn't produce cell chips Toshiba is the actual manufacturer, Sony sold them the cell plants cheap as an incentive to not try and continue the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray war. The article aslo clearly states that even though "cell" development will cease elements of the cell technology "WILL" be incorperated in future processors, and that they were moving on to develop a hybrid cpu+gpu. Go back folks and look at what the cell was originally supposed to be anyway, a master chip capable of high level computations through use of parallel programing on the spu's and aslo capable of next generation graphics display. It didn't work out that way because they ran out of time M$oft launched the x360 early and it didn't leave sony with the extra year or 2 that they needed to launch with the final version of the cell, that why they had to go to nvidia and use there most powerful chip at the time (still only average gpu).
The whole market is moving towards the cpu+gpu combo and gpu's right now have a huge advantage over traditional processors in terms of parrallel programing they've been doing it for over a decade with mutiple processors running at a lower clock speed than the cpu. It's already been proven that although the cell might be one of the mightiest cpu' out there it doesn't compare to even a mid-priced multicore gpu when it comes to parrallel processing. They have to make this move and will be all the better for it imagine a cpu+gpu combo with hundreds or thousands of multicore processors like the latest ATI chip but instead of running at a standard reduced gpu clock speed it ran at a full cpu clock speed this thing is going to be amazing. Imagine cell technology fused with the ATI chip all on one ciruit board.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

IBM invested a cr@p load of money into this technology, train people into this archaic architecture and now realizes that the market is going towards GPU's instead.

To Sony the answer of success might be different, but it appears IBM isn't selling too many Cell driven technology. It's a failure to IBM and IBM is doing the right thing for it's shareholders.

[Proxy]

"I am part of this development team and I would like to tell you something which would make you look like your comment fanboy dumb"

I'm going to assume 2 things:

1) You don't write documentation for the dev team.
2) You have a lot of free time on your hands. (As do I, and every other poster here. :)

[TotalPS3Fanboy]

Sony is going with Intel Larrabee for the PS4. The Larrabee is similar to the Cell, but is way easier to program for. And with an easier to program "Cell", the PS4 will dominate every other consoles like its their pimp.

[MNicholas]

They got paid hundreds of millions of dollars by Sony to develop and manufacture the chip. IBM will continue to profit from Cell through existing Cell based supercomputing applications.

Sony is working on recovering it's PS3 hardware investment via Blu-Ray and Game software. The fact that the Cell can decode Blu-Ray quality video and 7.1 audio streams without breaking a sweat and that it can assist with game rendering while powering an unprecedented level of physics simulation and animation made it a win-win for Sony.

Toshiba, who actually manufactures the Cell processor, is already unleashing general consumer products based on Cell like external video encoders and gesture recognition interfaces.

All the partners got something out of it.

[aliveinboston]

You right. 100 Million projected install base is a lot but I think it will "Cell" even more. Thats because, like you said, Toshiba is putting it in a lot of their own devices. Its an awesome chip and so its good that its so successful.

@Mnichols did you get my PM?

[ultimolu]

Guys, ignore Cell and report his comments.

On topic: That sucks but maybe something else is better planned?

[TotalPS3Fanboy]

It's call Intel Larrabee.

[N4g_null]

This is so weird I though p3 fans believed that their wasn't going to be a ps4 for another 7-10 years.

If you think logicly why does Sony need IBM or why would IBM continue development on some thing that has been eclipsed by nvidia, intel and soon amd.

I have to golf clap for you guys for believeing hype and looking at supierior artist out put and calling it CPU power. Uncharted looks good becuase of the art not the power of the system.

The cell is not a failaur yet it is not the future due to it's many design problems which are hardware and tool related.

Sony has never made a CPU or OS and currently don't have the man power or know how to make the cell better. The ps4 make get a cell with 8 functioning cells and some more ram if there is a ps4. Yet that will be pale to what is coming out.

[zeeshan]

@Foliage: What are you getting at dude? PS3 was the third fastest selling console at the launch time. It is currently outselling XBOX360 thus making it the current most wanted next-gen console and no please include Wii as it's not "next gen" at all. Where was I wrong?

[rockleex]

PS3 is the 3rd fastest selling console in HISTORY, behind the Wii and PS2. He wasn't talking about just this generation of consoles.

@scissor_runner

Are you telling me Sony didn't make their own CPUs for the PS1 and PS2?

"Uncharted looks good becuase of the art not the power of the system."

Then show me a game on the 360 that looks as good as "the art" in Uncharted 1... don't even bother looking for one that looks as good as Uncharted 2.

When you fail to do so, you might as well try to find a game on the 360 with "art" that looks as good as Killzone 2, GT5, The Last Guardian, Heavy Rain, etc.

[Seferoth75]

PS3 is Not NEXT Gen. It's sad that Sony fans in general are that stupid. It's current gen and with years of fanboy spin it is still in 3rd place and in no shape to catch the Wii any time soon....

Also you talk about Wii not being next gen and PS3 is next gen... Okay the only thing really between the two is one offers HD graphics the other offers Motion controls.... Now which company is copying who? It's not Nintendo copying SOny for HD on Wii. It's PS3 copying motion contrls from Wii....

To anyone who isnt a fanboy it is easy to see which console is next gen and which one isnt. IF PS3 was really THE next gen console. how come nobody is copying ANYTHING they do? If Wii isnt next gen(which it is but because of the ignorance of Sony fanboys we actually have to debate that now because you kids cant understand what next gen actually means) Why are Sony and MS falling all over themselves to copy it? You do not copy last gen features. You only copy next gen features. It's clear to see who is copying who

[Whitefox789]

So says the person not claiming to be a fanboy....

I wouldn't go as far to call the Wii's Hardware next gen; control system yes but you have to understand that motion control by itself is a gimmick believe me when I say my friends that own Wii's, used a Gamecube Controller for Super Smash Bros Brawl they called it a necessity to play the game. This was before the motion plus so I don't know how much its improved but my friends quoted and stated that, "Motion control is very unresponsive and majority of the time when you need to use it your just flailing your arms around"

The reason for MS and Sony getting on board of the Motion control train is because the casual people like the idea of doing their own actions for games instead of the old style with the controller (they don't want to look like a nerd even though they do anyways). So they want to make money off of this gimmick. I'll admit it is sort of copying them but as far as I can see it unless Nintendo brings something up to Sony and MS about having motion controls on their console then they have the green light to go ahead with it.

[YLOD Service Tech]

Cell processing is not the future droids. Sorry.

[BWS1982]

You fail to understand the Sony life cycle because you started gaming with Microsoft I suppose. Either that or you're bad at math. The PS3 IS intended to last 7-10 years, so from 2006 to perhaps 2013 or 2016.

Sony consoles overlap, hence PS2 came out in 2000, and is still chugging along into 2010. Get it? 10 years. PS3 came out after 6 of them, so I'm sure a PS4 will be released in a couple years, and due to the necessity of R & D time, I'm sure they are already addressing concepts on paper at this time, but probably don't have the funds to go head first into it just yet.

Seforoth, all I see is a crying baby, and since I can't read the text in your avatar, I'm going to pretend it's you crying about the possibility that the PS3 has great gaming, and has even more to come.

[ssipmraw]

so your saying that the cell is a failure ehh?
claiming the cell is a failure only shows your admittance to the failure of the xbox 360s processor since the xenos is an early prototype of the cell

so in other words you sir are a failure

[N4g_null]

@first Sony fanboy tell me when The eengine out preformed any thing? It is agreed that it was the weakest chip last gen finaly. The whole ps2 was a mess just like the ps1. Sony is best at making sound chips and low end chips.

On top of this bio shock easily is better than uncharted and that game is old. Ms is just not capably of supporting creativity lol. Their are studios that can easily beat uncharted's art yet they would rather use a real hd system a pc.

Please understand I'm not a ms fanboy nor a Sony fan boy and if nintendo decides to become a hype machine I have no problem in not buying their stuff also.

Lol so when is the next ps coming? Cool the ps4 will over lap the ps3 ok so when is it coming? And if the ps3 is so powerful what is the ps4 going to be left to do?

My math is fine second Sony fanboy. Yet could you tell me how bc with older systems is going to work? If you don't need that then why are you even buying games now if you will not play them in a few years.

You guys don't make much sense... Are you this desperate to ms fall. If so try talking about the games that are not crushed by 4 year old pc games. Also what makes every thing so luaghable is the fact that you guys ignore 3rd party games yes they are inferior in most cases yet powerful hardware rearly looks inferior to weaker hardware.

3rd parties could not ask for better soap boxers than the ps3 fan.

Seriouly if ps3 exculsive are all your going to play this gen I feel sorry for you. A king of the industry is now in the shadow of a Corp that does really care about any thing other than their turf and that is the pc.

If you don't understand pc gaming and real console gaming then all you can tell me is the same pr speak that comes from most Sony fanboys. Stop giving them a free past they need new customers not xbox converts.

Pc gaming maybe dead but it is only dead until it's juggernuats tire of console sales.
More hardcore gamers are unhappy this gen because Sony choose to fight ms with hype. If any thing nintendo shows you the best way to deal with ms which is to keep evolving and embracing the past with games of a similar spirit.

Stop the hardware power hype and get Sony to make more games for console owners instead of pc wanna be titles.
Tomb raider is old news and even with scripted qt mini games it is not attracting what it should.

Face it mw2 crushed your exculsives along with other games that are 3rd party. Sony is the only system maker that continues to be out done on their own console by the 3rd party.

[BWS1982]

I stopped reading at that point and skimmed, I never once said anything about wanting MS to fail. I have a 360 as of recent, and 5 games. I bring levity to your bias and you call it fanboyism. Sorry, pal, but you're more hateful than me and most people here, anyone can decipher that in your posts.

Nobody can say when Sony is bringing out a PS4, even Sony probably can't say, but it's inevitable, just like a new Honda next year and just like another MS OS later in a few. And if you can't wrap your head around the concept that tech is always improving, and that the PS3 is from 2006 tech, then all is lost with you. There is always growth, look at Intel, look at Nvidia, it's obvious.

[mattygamefreak]

Anyone who says the cell is a failure is a moron who knows nothing about technology.

[edhe]

this *is* n4g, remember.

Cell's a huge success - completely new ISA now in millions of homes.

[MNicholas]

Repeat

[4point7BillionLoss]

power of the Cell ... good for folding ... bad for gaming.

Bye BYe

quote from gamer zone:

"all the great games on the ps3 have something to say regarding that"

Well, imagine an 8 core xbox ... seeing as a three core box can do exactly what an 8 core cell can do ....

[Dutch Boogie]

who ever agreed to your nonsense drivel is as as your retarded as your post. Meh M$ breeds them premature these days.

[thereapersson]

Funniest nonsense I've read all day. Thanks for the laugh!

[Nicaragua]

Yeah right, MS cant even get make a reliable 3 core Xbox 360 and you want to talk about an 8 core version ?

Also don’t kid yourself that the Xbox is on a par with the PS3. The Best looking exclusive game on the Xbox 360 dreams of looking as good as a PS3, but then it wakes up and remembers its sh1t.

Oh yeah, and your a bell-end.

[Pennywise]

Yeah... Imagine you stupid donkey. It is the only way you will get to see that.

[thereapersson]

Leave the poor ignorant fool alone. Can't you see by now that 360 fanboys love outdated technology, and the idea of stifling forward-thinking, reliable gaming hardware designs?

edit:

Idiot status: confirmed

Debate_cycle.exe shutting down

//end program

[4point7BillionLoss]

8 cores vs 3 .... PS3 games should ALL be at least twice as amazing as xbox games.

They're not. The BEST looking game this Gen is a flipping multi-plat ... it's realistic graphics put the cell shaded cartoon called uncharted 2 to shame ...

And it just so happens that the xbox version of MW2 has a better framerate than the PS3 version ... bu bu bu teh PsFail has 8 cores ..

Bwu hahahahhahah

Losers ... PS3 gaymers ... play behind ...

[iMad]

Cell architecture failed for the 2nd time. The first one was in mid 90-x when similar processors was invented on paper and gained zero market share..Poor Sony..all internal studios will have to build new engines on PS4 while XBOX 360 devs will use their current engines with little dev time on next xbox.

But on the bright side we have free UE3.0 now. Sony first party can use it in PS4 :)

[BreakNeckSpeed]

B... b .. buh... but TEH CELLZ

[No FanS Land]

if you had a brain you would know that the Ps3 cell has 6 cores available to the devs.

[CancelationOfTheCell]

8 cores in total

1 just sits there waiting for another to fail ...?
andother is for the operating system ...

5 are for Folding @ home

that last one if for drawing triangles and facebook.

FAIL

[talltony]

You guys are stupid if you think that. We have seen some great results from the cell processor this year. Just look at killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 and all your doubts about it will just wash away unless of course you are in denial like 4.7 billion idiots above.

Sony was right to go with the cell because they knew that they had a lot of first party devs to show what it was capable of. At the same time knowing that multiplatform titles would be performing similarly and constantly improving which they are. All I know is that SONY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING! And BTW the RSX is not a off the shelf GPU it is actually a custom built GPU to work hand in hand with the cell. What will you guys be saying when God of war 3 is running at 1080p with tons of action on screen next year? I would love to see your fanboy faces when that game is released.

[TheBlackSmoke]

Errr since when is MW2 the best looking game this gen?. Bots must have low standards cos that game looks barely improved from 2 years ago.Best looking game on the 360 is RE5.... how pathetic.

[Pennywise]

4.7 bill... Did you just call UC2 "CELL SHADED"?? I know you are just an ignorant troll... but you attempts fail on so many levels.

1) Cel Shaded
2) You don't even know what cel shaded graphics are... See borderlands & POP. Cel graphics have no depth to them and look like a comic book. Uncharted is the best console graphics. The depth and textures are not even close to what you call "cell Shaded"
3)MW2 best graphics??? LMAO. Seriously, try harder.

[Marty8370]

You prick, Toshiba makes Cells for Sony anyhow. Just cos IBM stops Cell development doesn't mean, Sony & Toshiba are.

Jump Out, play B3yond

[54percent]

They cancel the cell development because IBM will work on a CPU/GPU hybrid instead a CPU only core

[AuToFiRE]

just ignore him, all xbots are desperate for something bad to say about the ps3

[DevastationEve]

Cell failed? Lol, that's just too funny.

[Trebius]

Is that these Xbot gaylords JUMP at any chance they can to say something negative about the PS3, even if it makes them look stupid...

The bottom line is this...

The PS3, hardware wise, Is 10x better than the 360, and the exclusives show it.

The more you post your PS3 hate, the more we see your jealousy.

Just buy a ps3 and be done with it...you keep trying to justify not buying one by posting hate threads on the internet, but you're just depriving yourself of good gaming.

More than half of the posts talking negatively about the ps3 here have no basis for their comments...and they're all full of terrible grammar and borderline retarded comments.

Xbots...get a life please? CancelationoftheCell created a brand new account just for this thread, what does that tell you?

N4G is his life, and he's pathetic, just like the rest of you that think if you type something bad about the PS3 it makes you some sort of hero in your Geek world.

Bottom line is you're losers for wasting your time badmouthing technology that you know nothing about. IBM isnt even the leading development team for the Cell, theyre just moving onto something better.

Technology lilke this has a short shelf life, because its alwayas being upgraded.

You guys can stay in the stone age with your 360, while we innovate with the ps3.

[xcox]

after MGS4, killzone2, uncharted2 and the upcoming GT5, the cell has nothing to prove as we all know

but we understand you have a painful @ss irritation that's not healing so you have to whiiiine like pu$$ies everytime there's a bit o news reminding you why your @ss hurts like that

it's ok... we understand
BWAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA!

[jhoang]

OMG the ps3 has 1 core, and 8 spe's one is locked and one is for xmb or something so that leaves 6.

[ExPresident]

They are done with the "Cell". That hardly means they are done with creating new chip sets. I'm sure they've already been working on a new project. Considering the Cell is used in a super computer shows its not a failure.

[sloth4urluv]

To me this dosnt say that the cell is a failure. Parallel computing is just heading in a different direction. Obviously sony will stick with their tech since the spent alot investing in it, just because IBM is pulling out dosnt mean they wont make anymore cells.

[kwyjibo]

Being used in a supercomputer is no mark of success either - accelerator cards such from ClearSpeed have been incorporated into supercomputers too - and they are by far a success.

I believe that the Cell has been a failure, those who don't, obviously have far more modest goals.

The Cell wanted to become the number one media chip out there. It wanted to be in every home entertainment device. It wanted to be an accelerator card inside normal specced machines. It didn't achieve that.

[edhe]

Cell would've been bigger had most of the silicon headed to retail not been packaged into a ps3.

IIRC sony had cornered the cell market for their console and there just weren't enough cells to go around to get to what they were wanting to do.

I think by now they were intending on having cells in the tv, the pc, the console and your phone. PS3 swallowed them all though.

[HD-AUDIO]

Will this change with IBM pulling out of their own development? Not necessarily. Sony can still hire IBM to create a Cell Processor for their next console, without IBM being involved in their own internal development outside of the PS4. So don’t start counting Sony’s chickens just yet.

[Dutch Boogie]

Nice quote from the horses mouth lol /jk

[techie]

Nice copy and paste from the article.

[thereapersson]

Well sometimes it's the only way for people to realize what's actually IN an article, considering most people don't bother clicking the link to read it.

[Pixel_Addict]

It doesn't matter at all. IBM isn't the only player in town. I mean what other processers are the famous for? INTEL is there own company. ATI, NVIDIA, AMD are all known for processers. IBM has hardware engineers yeah, but you can find those guys in a number of places. Sony has their own internal engineers anyway.

[sikbeta]

This is HOW it WORKS

IBM+SONY+TOSHIBA involved in the CELL

IBM go away = SONY+TOSHIBA REMAIN

SONY can ask IBM to make the CELL

Like Nintendo asked for "Broadway CPU" for the wii, that is an UPGRADE of the "Gekko CPU" from the Gamecube

SO, because IBM is not involved any more, doesn't mean CELL is over

NOW EVERY FANBOY HATER CAN UNDERSTAND THAT

[techie]

Well at least say it's a quotation.

[Raf1k1]

I agree.
If you're going to quote, do it right.

[Kurylo3d]

cell processor has always been a joke. You cant replace a gpu with a normal processor... u can however replace a processor with a gpu... or soon will be thanks to nvidia.

[LTC]

Of someone who deosn't actually read the article. Where do these people come from?

[Dutch Boogie]

lol at bubbles. Your stupidity doesn't warrant a logical response so, kiss my a**.

[thereapersson]

Well, there *is* a reason why he only has one bubble....

[Nicaragua]

Well show me something that looks better than uncharted/Killzone/Wipeout/MGS 4 on the Xbox360 and i'll agree with you all day long.

[sikbeta]

AGAIN:

This is HOW it WORKS

IBM+SONY+TOSHIBA involved in the CELL

IBM go away = SONY+TOSHIBA REMAIN

SONY can ask IBM to make the CELL

Like Nintendo asked for "Broadway CPU" for the wii, that is an UPGRADE of the "Gekko CPU" from the Gamecube

SO, because IBM is not involved any more, doesn't mean CELL is over

NOW EVERY FANBOY HATER CAN UNDERSTAND THAT

[TheMART]

Uhm I see all the PS3 droids cry so much but one thing is for sure.

If the Cell was that great, it would have been continued. As it isn't, it is not the most optimal way to use processors obviously. There are easier ways to get the same results. It was a nice try, but it failed.

Its not cut over nothing, remember that. And yes, with a lot of effort stuff like Uncharted 2 can be done. But if thats with 5 x the cost compared to other CPU's, suddenly it becomes a problem. Like KZ2 costing 60 mln. to get all that SPU's to work also.

[Pennywise]

And MW2 costing 200mil to ge-... oh wait. Another donkey in the thread.

[thereapersson]

Modern Warfare 2's budget cost nearly 4 times the amount that Killzone 2's did, and the game doesn't even begin to look nearly as good.

Also, Naughty Dog built the Uncharted engine and tech from scratch, so of course a little bit more development time would go into the first Uncharted. The second, however, is the best-looking console game ever made -- and it didn't take NEARLY as long as the first to make.

[TheMART]

Yet again, the investment in MW2 was a better one as it also earned more. That budget you give there, isn't that included marketingbudget? As I can't see how based on the COD4 engine a game would cost that much. Furthermore thats ONE game you can mention. Look at all the other games on the PS3. They cost a lot, a lot to produce and get the workarounds for trouble with its hardware. Its confirmed.

But the thing still stands:

If the Cell was so successful, it would have been continued. As that development route has been ended, its not the best way to use CPU's. Thus its a failure.

Too bad Pennytard, nice try though.

[xaviertooth]

he's not only a donkey, he's a monkey.

[4point7BillionLoss]

is just for te PS3. It would have been finished 6 months ago and cost a fraction had it not been for the stupid PS3 version which, for all it's power of the cell, has a crap frame rate compared to the less powerfull xbox 360 version

Play behind hutt hurting Cell cancelled wii wand cry baby droids !!!!

[Pennywise]

I forgot Mart, the only thing that matters to us "gamers" is if the investment was worth it and how many units sold.

If the cell is a failure, I feel bad for your box. The graphics of the PS3, as a "failure" puts your lover to shame.

[4point7BillionLoss]

to make something hardly better ...

pennywise the blind

[Budg3tG4m3r]

Pennywise that $200 million was for ads. You PS3 fanboys are just as retarded as the 360 fanboys.

[trancefreak]

Typed a long reply and right @ the end freakin IE 8 freezes up. Cant even handle a typing task freaking sad.

[Marty8370]

Yet another prick that has'nt got a f#cking clue. Your full of sh#t.

Cell isn't a failure as it's still been used/made.

1.PS3 uses it and will continue to use it.
2. Toshiba uses it in the new top of the range HDTV's.
3. Toshiba makes PC accelerator boards.
4. 2nd most powerful supercomputer in the world uses Cell(Roadrunner).

Jump Out, Play B3yond

[The real killer]

All i can see is how you (DUMB X-BOT) don't understand what it means about (development) Sony and Thosiba still develop the Cell, IBM not anymore because it's to difficult.

You and your friends BOTS are so dumb like kids from 4 years old.

[Pennywise]

Cell Chip is amazing. Screw the haters.

[leila01]

"am part of this development team"

"the net can really make people look as stupid as they are in real life"

Hahaha thnx for making me laugh kid.

[Pixel_Addict]

I think this playstation themed website is bogus. This is the second nasty story these guys have 'reported' on.

Further more, IBM has had finacial difficulty for quite some time now. So, IF this story is true, it would not have anything to do with the quality of the Cell processor.

Also, the comment "notoriously difficult to develop for" raises red flags. This sounds like a fanboy comment, because developers have said that its not 'difficult' just different. If you only want to work with the familiar and simple then yeah, its 'difficult'. This site is garbage and that statement alone raises some doubts to its crediblity.

[kwyjibo]

I have no idea about this website, but to suggest that it's bogus because it covers bad news is the most moronic statement. I'm sorry the world doesn't live up to your whitewashed eyes, maybe you should stick to Fox News - they say the same thing over and over again.

Even so, this story comes from Heise, which is pretty much the most respected German language tech news source.

And without any backup whatsoever, you insert some bullshit FUD regarding IBM's financial position. You've actually made something up out of thin air to try and back your none existent argument - don't tell me you actually believe your lies? You disgust me.

IBM is a world beating technology company, they are far and ahead the greatest IT services company in existence. Even when HP took over the number two IT guys, EDS, they're still number 2. IBM has their chip inside every single console out today - they're the real winners of this cycle.

I know my use of facts might be hurting you, so I'll finish off with their share price. 2009 has been an incredible year, they're almost back at their all time highs and have continued a steady dividend throughout the recession.

http://www.google.com/finan...

[Nihilism]

Maybe next gen the poor multiplat issues will be sorted out, and no doubt the ps4 will get a lot more games for this change. Good to see sony has learnt from their mistakes. Creating new processor architecture, which is not compatible, or easily ported to from existing universal multithreading cpu's was insane.
I'd love to hear MNicholas's explanation of why sony's 'vastly superior and cheap to manufacture' cell has been killed of, especially when as he claimed it had a large market outside of the playstation.

No loss for gamers, or to computer industry, the next ps3 will be a lot more compatible, and instead of this 'they don't know the hardware' crap, they can just max out every game with ease of programability, as for the workstation market, tesla is here to save the day, have no fear.

To summarise the reasoning: Intel got it wrong with larabee, IBM got it wrong with the cell, Nvidia got it very right with tesla and the new gt300 gpu's

[hoops]

"To summarise the reasoning: Intel got it wrong with larabee, IBM got it wrong with the cell, Nvidia got it very right with tesla and the new gt300 gpu's"

Problem is....we have no idea what the gt300 will do as they are paper launched and no benchmarks behind it. On paper it sounds good, however paper does not equate to real world performance. I am stoked about the possibilities of the new upcoming gt300 series however to say they got it right when the product is not even out yet is a bit premature

[Darkeyes]

Hey Dchal 10 bucks says the PS4 will also use Cell technology.. Apart from the fact that it costs less (for the then PS4), it has proven that it can create something that the usual PC architecture of the 360 can't. The main plus point of the 360 architecture is actually the biggest down point.... The easy architecture means the devs max out the console pretty early in it's lifecycle... Just look at the 360 and how the all OMGZ started with Gears 1... After that it's a big dud since you raise the peoples expectations to a level and when you can't raise the bar further, you then get a backlash. The PS3 might have started slow, but recently the gap is really widening in the graphics department.....

Ya the Cell is tougher to develop now, but who knows what lies for it in the next 3-4 years? Even when PS2 came out, it didn't have a conventional PC architecture, however since it sold an @ss load, the devs eventually learned it and mastered it... The same can and will probably be the case with PS3 later and PS4 whenever it comes out. Sony isn't just going to throw out a billion $ in R & D out of the window... The Cell isn't expensive, but the money cost in it's development is.... That is why PS3 costed so much.. And I don't get that 'it will get more games' argument???? I mean apart from Valve which developer isn't publishing games for PS3????? Don't count 3rd party exclusives lost as it's not due to Cell, but due to companies buying the devs.....

The Cell never was a mistake and never will be... You will probably see this when it starts reaping benefits in the long run.... Loosing a billion now and earning 4 in 15 years is always an investment.

[Nihilism]

Despite the lack of benchmarks, the principle still remains, gpu's are way more parallel that cpu's , the gt300 cards are essentially 512 core cpu's, regular cpu's including the cell could never implement the gpu features to their full extend for the simple fact that they are too small. They have enough trouble fitting bigger cpu cache sizes, let alone video ram and shader cores. Fermi is the first step, so it's not going to change the world, but the design they have introduced will be the start of something big imo. Larabee is fast becoming vapourware, and when it arrives, it will only serve the low end segment, basically just taking 'atom' one step further, with more gpu features.

Time will tell of course, but this seems to indicate that IBM has seen that the integrated cpu option was too limited.

[Nihilism]

maxing out architecture is not a bad thing, if it was easier to program for, all games could be uc2 quality, right from the start. That would be much better than having the illusion of advancement (when it's really just being competent). If it had a quad core cpu, all games could be easily programed for 4 cores, and there would be no bottleneck, they could easily scale the texture and draw distance and effects based on the VRAM, and all games would have much more stable frame rates ( if the devs put the effort in of course)

[sikbeta]

'they don't know the hardware'

AH... everyone goes wit that crap, PART of the amazing graphics are THANKS to the CELL

CELL can implement really well in a Linux environment and can expand even more, because programmers are so used to easy programming in a known platform + easy OS, doesn't mean they can't learn something new

By that logic we only can expect huge Progress only when a new "DirectX" is implemented

[Darkeyes]

Yup even your argument is a good one, but I really feel that like every gen people expect games to look better with every year. Maxing out a console in the very first year isn't always a good thing... The reason I feel is the fact that PC gaming will always be better (graphically) compared to console counterparts. So if a console game maxing it out comes and lets say Crysis 4 comes out blowing the game out of the water, then people will really feel ripped off to some degree.... Not saying PS3 will produce a game with Crysis graphics, but hey 3 years and it's improving each year.... At least I can hope in such a case that a game coming out next year will be better looking (better looking means a jump like from UC1 to UC2).

And as I said, Cell is looking tougher to develop now, but it might be regarded as an easy platform 3-4 years down the line. I ain't any expert, but the guys who develop these tech should have had at least something in their minds before developing it. They just can't leave out 1 billion dollars to go down the drain.... Double the Cores, add in EDRAM like the 360 (but obviously more), more RAM.... Ya PC gaming will always be ahead, but 3 years now... best looking game: Crysis... 2nd best looking:Uncharted 2... So that means the Cell is definitely giving a tough fight even for a 3 year old architecture...

[Nihilism]

I agree, there's no denying that some amazing things were done with the cell, uc2 is a console marvel. But with the development cost of the cell, as well as the fact that it made the console so expensive etc, they could have put in even a dual core cpu, and put in a better gpu, which would have provided much better results graphically, and in performance. Within a few years, they won't even sell dual core cpu's for pc's, it will all be quads, and when that happens every game will scale much better. They can't go and program games right from the start for 4 cores, because then dual cores would choke and die. So they make 2 major threads ( or in some cases only one), and then have lesser threads on the other cores, so there is a benefit with more cores, but not a hindrance to older dual cores. If the next x-box and playstation both have quads, multiplats would be on par with exclusives, there wouldn't be this massive divide. They would simply have to scale down things based on the gpu's power. The two things that held this gen back for consoles: dvd9 and the cell.

I honestly hope for gamers everywhere that the next playstation doesn't use the cell, developers everywhere would rejoice. It's never going to be mainstream pc tech either, it only has a niche market, of which it is not a dominant player anyway.

[tizack]

This is actually good news. paraphrasing, It says that things are moving more toward the GPU, and so future development will try to adapt current cell technology to work with an integrated gpu solution. It means more focus on graphics rather than just sheer processing power. Future processors along this same vein may not be call CELL perhaps, but they will be based off the technology, and shoot, it sounds like they will be even better adapted for a console with more emphasis on the gpu. I think that is pretty awesome. Sony will definitely have to be in talks with IBM for their next system. I'm not really seeing why there is so much doom and gloom in the article. technology adapts and advances. Whatever IBM moulds the current cell designs into, im sure it will be great, and since it will be based of the CELL we can still hope that compatibility will be there to some degree as well when it comes to making programs/games. Good interesting article!

[kewlkat007]

The Cell will not be used in the PS4. Maybe still be used in tvs and other devices but it was a huge gamble. Those that were closely associated...Ken, IBM..etc are/already have jumped off or gotten the boot.

[edhe]

If you're right, then so's valve. If the ps4 is a new cpu, something exotic again whilst the competition stays to extensions of stuff that already runs current engines, then the ps4 will fail.

Can't imagine activision wanting to hold up pc/xbox development just to make a new cod on the ps4 look half decent on a new chip. Sony should stay with the cell line, they've made their bed.

[kewlkat007]

Well the Sony games do look good, I guess your right on that one but I think it will depend on which direction the Industry is going and what they are comfortable with and I know "the cell"(given the time and money spent for development), has not been on top of the list.(For whatever reasons we have heard)

I've always applaud Sony for taking risks(wouldn't be possible without "Ken Kutaragi"). With the way the Economy went south, it was just bad timing.

"The Cell" is a specialized chip with more of Video/Audio processing in mind to push Blu-Ray players.(I still stand by that). You have to do more work to make great games with it and we have seen that but I still do not think it was just built for "JUST GAMING". Of course this is nothing new with Sony, they are always cutting edge or whatnot.

Anyhow PS4 is long ways away but we all know R&D departments started working on the next console as soon as this one was done so we can continue speculate away...lol

[edhe]

I applaud your informed POV. Have a bubble!

[IRetrouk]

Will this change with IBM pulling out of their own development? Not necessarily. Sony can still hire IBM to create a Cell Processor for their next console, without IBM being involved in their own internal development outside of the PS4. So don’t start counting Sony’s chickens just yet.

this is just like every other chip out there, they take it so far and then start developing a new one, do you think the 360s chip is being used in anything other than 360? no its not, and as it says in that quote sony can partner wit ibm again if they want, sony plus toshiba still own the rights to the cell tech, it means nothing to the ps3 for ibm to stop support.

[N4g_null]

What you don't understand is this shows they went down the wrong path. The compiler was a mess compared to what intel has put together and on top of this many have siad Sony is in talks with intel for the larrabee chip. So even Sony would be admitting it wasn't a good chip.

Now ms is going to have intel ati or nvidia to choose from and you can bet dx11 was made to destroy the bikkering open gl guys and any thing Sony could think up. Yet intel could be the IBM of next gen from what am hearing.

Ati has some tricks left and nintendo has plenty of money also. Sony needs to finish there make over though they can not afford IBM any more. Small die chip with sweet vector units and great interconnecting bandwidth is the future.

It is possible that Sony can do better next year but they have to focus on games and mostly fun console like games and stayway from any thing pc like.

[IRetrouk]

and what you dont understand is that chip development is a constantly changing thing, they take the good from current chips and then improve them for the next development, its says as much in the article, as i said this has nothing to do with the ps3, the chip is like 3 years old now if not more, how many chips stay around for that long?

[tizack]

Ok, this is getting grossly out of proportion. IBM isn't doing away with CELL, they had a new Design for a 32 core cell, they scrapped that new design to try to go a different way adapting technology from the cell. But saying the CELL failed is stupid. How many cores can you attach to a processor before performance increase is negligible because there just arent enough things being run at one time to make use of them all? I'm sure IBM is trying to find ways to continually improve technology and they decided that instead of slapping on more cores they could get more performance increase by better incorporation with a gpu. This has nothing to do with the success of the CELL, nor does it reference sales as any reason. to the contrary, if it was a bad design, then why would they want to base newer technology off of it... Come on people, use our brains...

[hoops]

Tis is not biggie. IBM simply decided to move on for business reasons. The Cell Processor did not expand beyond the market they intended. IBM was expecting the Cell to be implemented in many devices outside of the PS3. This did not happen. Time to move on

[Jdoki]

To me, the important quote in that article was...

"...Turek did explain that features of the Cell would continue to be moulded into other processor designs. With the future looking like it’s taking a GPU route, a hybrid technology is the direction IBM will developing."

Any fanboys crying about the failure of the Cell should just read that quote. It explains exactly why the Cell development was a success, and where it is leading.

Also, there's no mention of stopping production, only development. So Sony should have no problems using a Cell in the PS4, and quite possibly using a hybrid chip based on Cell in the PS5.

[ultimolu]

Don't you dare use logic here! >:(

It is not allowed!

[N4g_null]

It is a failaur because they proved that a CPU can not do the work of a gpu. This happened first with the inclusion of the rsxchip. Which was a gpu doing a better job at graphic, go figure. Not until intels larrabee did any one think CPUs could get the job done.

This would be like nvidia giving in and saying they are only making CPU based cores for graphics. Every one and sony's father knew the chip was a cool experiment yet lacked the tool to unleash real parralell processing since it sort of ignored the issues of building such a chip.

Yet IBM is only about new and better and bettering their portfolio of tech. I love IBM but intel is getting pretty dangerous. Before you bring up the tired super computers on a chip pr fluff remember gpus only lacked a API or language to run c like code off of. We all knew the Rex and any older pc gpu would crush the cell.

I mean do you guys get tired of being hyped up every gen by Sony? Just to be told the truth after 3 or 4 years. If you bought the ps3 because of it's powerz lol then you deserve to be let down. Also only an xbox fanboy would use this to claim his system is more powerful, if any thing they have proven to be about the same power wise. They only way the ps3 could have claimed the power crown is for it to have been designed like the larrabee.

[shikwan]

like Sony lovers claim....then why hasn't it even made a SCRATCH in the PC CPU retail world....or anywhere else for that matter? EPIC FAIL - just like the Emotion Engine! ROFL!

BTW This probably also means that there will be little, if ANY support for backwards compatibility of PS3 games on the PS4 : 0

[hoops]

If anyone figured that the CELL would compete in the discrete PC world with AMD and ESPECIALLY INTEL that would be foolish. This was never to happen just based on reception of the Cell in the early years in regards to PC infrastructure.

[DJ]

Simple as that. But PS3 is nearing 30 million units sold, which is a good accomplishment for a processor that supposedly (according to you) wasn't designed to run games. =P

[shikwan]

@hoops - no DUH!

@DJ- It was u Sony luvers who CLAIMED 'teh Cell' was going to be big and all these exaggerated stories on how it's a better processor than anything Intel, etc. had!

Casio sell/sold a ton of stuff with processors in them - so your 30 million claim is just dust in the wind...who CARES???

How's your own words tasting?

[djfullshred]

Different components for differnet products. Don' be trippin' on one should supplant the other, or superiority in different design concepts. PCs have a long established achitecture that can't really be undone without killing the golden goose. Game consoles are not constrained by software backwards compatability, and can take a leap into another architecture.

Just because a Corvette & a Porsche have totally different engines, does not mean that both don't have very good engines.

[rawd]

Bots, are you really discussing cancelled hardware. The first Xbox? Come now

[ZombieAutopsy]

that was actually really good.

[DJ]

It truly made the way we play games so much better. And yes, Sony and Toshiba are still involved, and can hire IBM for additional work on the next Cell (if need be). So no, it's not the end of the world. We're still at least 4 years away from a PS4 being released, if not longer.

[stiggs]

"I am part of this development team..."
No, you're not.

[NotSoSilentBob]

I thought Sony pulled out of the Cell when they sold their production facility to Toshiba? Or did they just get out of Producing cell chips?

Either way I am sure that IBM will take what they have learned from Parallel Processing from the Cell and apply it towards their next chip.

[kewlkat007]

for production. They did something similar with Samsung(morso partnership) with their LCD tv line. Sony all together been trying to cutting cost in every which way.

Consumer chips will get more CORES/Threads but will see specialized chips in other devices. So Cell is going nowhere, as long as its profitable.

It's quite funny how businesses work, Toshiba lost the format battle but are doing very well working with Sony.

Cancel development =/= Cancel production

[Rocco Siffredi]

The CELL has power, but its to expensive to dev for. IBM dropps the development because they also invest too much money for the cell.

[CernaML]

Awww, look at the silly little fanboy pretending that he knows what he's talking about. How cute.

[Rocco Siffredi]

looking on commning games like RAGE or BRINK, which look way better than KZ2, we can easily say, that the PS3 is in NO WAY better in terms of graphics compare dto the 360.

There are 700 games out and the only game is uncharted2 which shows the cell power?? Damn, thats a really shame! Even God of War 2.5 cant beat uncharted2. And Alan Wake looks ways more realistic and has sharper textures as uncharted2.

Sorry... but the PS3 and its cell with its slow blu ray drive is the biggest flop this gen.

RAGE/ BRINk > ALL

[TheBlackSmoke]

Butthurt ^^^

Maybe this christmas your parents will get you a PS3 and you can stop this nonsense.

[Moebius69]

@Rocco can you post some proof that RAGE and BRINK gameplay looks better than KILLZONE2 i'd really like to see

[ZombieAutopsy]

I havent seen any gameplay from Brink or Rage, if you have a link that would be nice.

[LinuxGuru]

Do all you lemmings think that the Cell is gone because 1 part of STI (Sony/Toshiba/IBM) has dropped it?

Sony and Toshiba are more than capable of taking on the R&D...plus, IBM can still help with manufacturing...this just means that IBM isn't putting money forth to develop future cell revisions and such.

Understand?

[DelbertGrady]

Hiphopgamer translation coming on sunday: "Sony cancels the PS4!"

[Highatus]

Rofl, Funniest comment i've read in a while :D

[DelbertGrady]

Like someone else stated, we don't know the reason to IBM's cancellation and it doesn't mean they won't keep supporting Sony and the PS3.

[Admiral_Benson]

Damn, the xbox fanboys are riding this one hard!

Lap it up all you want though boys, it makes no difference....The PS3 is here to stay, like it or not.

The Open Zone reeks of the stench of desperation today. I have no problem with people defending their console of choice with constructive argument but some of of you xbox diehards sink to embarrassing levels of childish fanoboyism and damage control. The PS3 is doing fine, smashing sales figures, numerous AAA titles are rolling in and next year is only going to get better. I fail to see how that constitutes "failure".

This news is going to have zero effect on the PS3 as a console. Deal with it and grow tfu.

And for all those talking of "8 core xbox's" and "the next gen" already.....please. This gen is barely half way through it's cycle and the current crop of consoles are going to be with us for a good few years yet.

[Marty8370]

Exactly, bots failed to realise that Toshiba makes Cell for PS3. So when it comes to Cell die chip shrinks Toshiba will carry out all development work needed.

Jump Out, Play B3yond

[neogeo]

There is no such thing as a (Pentium1,2,3,4 processor) be There are all different processors with the same name. We need to get the idea out of our heads that th same thing will be here for years.

So saying the cell failed is no different then saying a Dual core failed because the dual core 2 came out.

Get what I'm saying? The cell was and is a huge win and everyone is coping its tech intels new gpu direction is a cell clone

[DJ]

I laughed so hard. It was like staring at the Cell Processor, just with more cores. Sony, Toshiba, and IBM got it right. The next Cell does need some more consumer-level support though.

I have a nagging feeling that the next console from Sony is going to be the PlayStation Vaio. It would allow them to charge a proper price (unlike what traditional game consoles sell for). The fact that a $299 game console can outperform $2999 PCs is pretty ridiculous. But with Windows support (through dual-boot option), the next PlayStation could finally break the mold and be accepted as a PC platform.

[commodore64]

This is MAJOR news!
IBM cancels the much vaunted cell.

I can just see all the forums across the globe resound with a chorus of 'bu bu teh cell?'
.... lol!

Question is, what recourse do the developers have, considering they 'invested' so much more time and money in getting cell coding skills?
Are their cell-skills, acquired at great personal cost, now useless?
Would it be fair to say they got screwed?
hmmm.

Makes me wonder if Gabe Newell wasn't right all along?
He certainly looks to have been vindicated by this news.

... funny how these things sort themselves out in the long run, huh?

[DJ]

While the PC market is barely getting a taste of 4-core processors, the PS3's 9-core processor has been in use for the past four years. The big hurdle with PS3 wasn't the SPUs or EIB, it was the fact that developers had to learn proper multithreading techniques.

Xbox 360 developers had to do the same, just on a smaller scale (3 cores instead of 9).

[commodore64]

well, you make some vast generalisations there, dj, which are not quite correct.

You assert that the cell and xenon are fundamentally no different, with the exception of the number of cores, when all evidence from the developer community says they are hugely different.

The fact is, developers have struggled big time with the cell, due to the hardware architecture of the cell and its new programming requirements, compared to other multicore cpus.

The skill set for cell that was required was entirely different to the skill set required for xenon (or other PC multicores) which gave rise to the multitude of multiplats on the ps3 which were not up to scratch.

Remember how people blamed (and still are blaming) developers for not getting the ps3 up to scratch on multiplats? ... well that's the difficulty of the cell architecture at work,right there, dj. That is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

The skills acquired by programming for multi spus on ps3 are NOT the same as programming for multicore on PC.
Sorry!

Fact is, the triple core (six thread) xenon is very similar to multicore programming on PCs, while the "single core+7spus cell" is a whole different kettle of fish.

Why else would reputable and respected programmers make claims which support my statement?

Please do some research, my good man.

[djfullshred]

The end result is specialists. All industries have them. Multiplatform is hit & miss on the PS3, but the specialists that make PS3 games seem to do a great job with it. The "struggling" part is in the rear view mirror for those companies the decided to take the leap. The smarter tech people in the world don;t run away from complexity...they embrace it as an interesting challenge, when they can see it will allow them to do real cool things.

[ProblemSolver]

The article says that IBM is pulling out of the Cell development, meaning,
they are not going to produce the envisioned PowerXCell-8i+ processor utilizing
two PowerPC- and 32 SPEs cores in one enclosure. Why? Despite the Cell offers
an outstanding number-crunching capability, which performs at it best when
applied to non-aligned data-structures (i.e. trees, unstructured grids, etc.),
which becomes possible due to the explicit nature of the memory interface
(gather/setter operations), it seems like that selling such a processor to the
HPC market, which isn't a very large market to say at least, and others can't
support the development even further because the workloads of todays HPC
machines do also incorporate a lot of graphical operations (i.e. scientific
visualizations) which don't map that well onto the Cell processor. Most
graphical operations perform at it its best when applied to linear
data-structures (i.e lists, structured grids, etc.). And this is also the reason
why graphics accelerators do perform that good when it comes to these kinds of
workloads. Hence, offering only a Cell processor to the HPC community would
only solve half of the problem. What's needed is a hybrid processor that does
also incorporate efficient execution of graphical operations. Well, it's no
surprise that the PS3 does include an graphics accelerator (the RSX).

I wouldn't be surprised if IBM follows the route originally given within the
patent of the Cell processor where one could see that they indented to integrate
a unit explicitly for graphical workloads, the so-called Visualizer.

The Cell processor for itself is a master-piece, it's architecture offers what
is needed to implement complex algorithms efficiently. The main difficulties
in developing for Cell doesn't come from the processor itself, it's a universal
problem, it comes from the rather hard task of parallelizing an algorithm that
operates on a non-linear data-structures (i.e. just try to parallelize a kd-tree,
or an algorithm that operates on an unstructured grid). Most of these topics
are scientific research problems. However, the situation is much easier when
considering graphical workloads. Most graphical algorithms operate on linear
data-structures (uniform grids, etc.) and those data-structures are very easy to
parallelize such that one can make good use of an graphics accelerator.

To give you an example; the Cell processor shines when being applied to
fluid dynamics, crash-test simulations and similar problems. And an graphics
accelerator shines when visualizing all the results coming out of those
simulations. Hence, it would be best to have kinda of an hybrid processor that
allows to do hard number crunching and that also includes a graphics unit
that can immediately process parts of the computed data to compute a
visualization thereof.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Ah good explanation, that actually makes perfect sense now that I read your post.

[ceedubya9]

When an article about the Cell Processor, can still attract people that want make this about a console war. As surprising as it may seem, everything isn't always about the PS3/360.

Shocking, I know...

[IRetrouk]

you lot need to read that, this has absolutly nothing to do with the ps3

[outlawlife]

this pretty m uch guarantees no backward compatibility for the next playstation iteration

that is the one detail people are skipping

[djfullshred]

No it does not. IBM does not dictate the way console designs go. They are not the only company Sony can collaberate with.

[Guitardr85]

This is actually good news for the PS4! IBM is pretty much moving on to the next "phase" of the cell, which is integrating tech learned from the cell into a GPU. Hopefully this means that by the time the PS4 comes around, it will have a powerful multicore processor (the cell hired out by IBM, just not internally done by IBM) AND a cell derived GPU!!! My god, think how fast it would be!!!

[ProblemSolver]

I strongly believe that IBM will have an answer to all of this -- a Cell
processor with an embedded graphics unit in one die. Who knows? Recently
IBM offered the possibility to program the Cell processor with OpenCL such
that the invested effort isn't lost when moving on to a (their) next-gen
processor. So if you develop your programs with OpenCL it is pretty much
obvious that those programs will also run on any new processor coming out
within the next few years. Let us imagine that IBM is going to build an
hybrid Cell including Graphics and also build a strong back-end for OpenCL,
then I guess this could help IBM to sell much more units to the HPC as well
as to the entertainment market as of today with the Cell processor alone.

[Guitardr85]

Agreed! I really hope this is where the tech is going! Thanks to multicore processing, good old Moore's Law can keep on going for a while! Seeing multi-core gpus linked to even more multi-cored cpus is something I hope I can buy for my next computer build. Pretty soon, we will have a human brain, lol (or at least the computational power of one!!!

It's really closer than you think! Check out the Blue Brain Project!!!

[THC CELL]

cell is getting used left right and center

ps4 will be upgraded with a new cell chip that will be x times powerful then the next consoles

the next consoles ps4 will be the best mark my word

[Karooo]

I want the cell only in ps3 consoles, its sickening to see them in TVs etc.

only on playstation and devs developed for cell when the ps3 was new and had 0 marketshare why wouldnt they do when ps4 is released and ps3 has 50 million consoles in the market?

[ForROME]

Why are people saying failure, every new system has a new processor

PS1
PS2
PS3

Xbox
Xbox 360

All different processors no one banked on holding on to the same style forever, you would be out of the hardware game

[djfullshred]

I would expect some evolutionary processor still based upon the cell for the next console. Perhaps some kind of hybrid as suggested in the article. Sony took an early beating pushing forward this technology, so imho the smart business decision would be to ensure backwards compatability for PS3 games on the PS4, and not having to reinvent the wheel again for the software developers.

[Shane Kim]

Lots of anal probed xbots I see. Still waiting for Santa to get you a PS3? Don't wait anylonger couse he ain't coming.

Btw, took a picture when Mart stood...well, see it for yourselves.

Sorry to smash your dreams bots. But if you ask mommy enough she might find it in her heart, if she has enough money left after paying for the trailer and cocaine.

[Karooo]

AND IT WON !! lol xbots, in PS4 sony can use any processor, they might use an upgraded cell or any other multi threaded processor.

[shikwan]

But what r u gonna do when ur PS3 is broke & the PS4 can't play ur ps3 games because the processor is different and their are compatibility/copyright issues (same as PS2 to PS3)???

All that $$$ u invested in PS3 games...tsk, tsk! Bend over - Sony got ya again!!

[djfullshred]

lol, by the time the PS4 comes out, our oldest PS3 game will be ten years old. No point in even speculating what the future will bring at this time.

[kumashii38]

I think canceling the Cell is not bad.

I want PS4 to have a new cpu architecture that is much easier
to develop games for.

[wpggamer]

Buh buh buh, teh power of the cell.
Lol, nobody else is doing this, cause the cell is better off as a gpu, not cpu. For chip design, look no further than intel. Proprietary doesn't have all the advantages that fanboys believe in. Sony just likes calling their stuff supercomputers with buzzwords like cell bbe, emotion engine, etc. Rally points for fanboys to get behind. Then as per protocol, sony leaks a story like, they can't import the unit into the US cause it's too crazy fast (PS2), or china (PS3). All marketing, little substance.

[PS360PCROCKS]

3 years ago I would have believed that, but games like Uncharted 2 make me look at your comment and say "Idiot..."

[wpggamer]

Compare uncharted 2 to crysis running on an intel chip. It's not even close. Processing power is all about threads and throughput, and most multi-core general cpu's are faster than the cell. Besides, UC2 is not leagues above everything else. It's an incremental step, that's all. Take off your fanboy glasses.

[djfullshred]

PC has always been ahead of consoles. The whole point of the consoles is an alternative to the costly PC arms race that follow Moore's Law. Consoles allow consumers to buy games without having to think about hardware requirements. The cell was chosen for the PS3, because from an engineering perspective, it will still have more horsepower to be found under the hood a handful of years after the first games are developed for it.

[playnation]

technology it's always advancing if processors were not continously in development at this time a pentium 2 would be part of our pc's lol

[PS360PCROCKS]

Sony plans on using the cell again for PS4? Where did that information come from? I hope not, cell is cool and all but they need to move into even more powerful technology. Maybe if it's made more powerful? Anyone have an idea? I'm curious how cell could be made more powerful? memory? more spus?

[ceedubya9]

that they whatever cell is put in the PS4 will not be the same one that is in the PS3. It will be advanced in some way. Tech is always moving forward, and I don't see that being any different here.

[thehitman]

they wanted use cell again its a general assumption that they should to make easier for transition in next console. The assumption is that Sony would use a 32 SPU proccessor compared to the Cell's 8.

Also tbh I think the cell is still ahead of its time since most CPUS are no higher than dual-core pcs which is why IBM is probably stopping development since the best use for it is maybe game console or building super computers. Not all pc games take advantage of quad cores which is like a mini cell.

[ProblemSolver]

@PS360WiiRock: "I'm curious how cell could be made more powerful? memory?
more spus?" Neither of these. Despite increasing the amount of SPEs, memory
bandwidth, and local store would be very welcome, the main problem is a lack
of skilled programmers who have an good understanding of parallel programming.
Parallel programming differs so much from old plain sequential programming
that one can say that these are two different worlds. You need to be well
educated to do such things. Plain old garage-development doesn't work anymore.
Additionally, a good support from Sony in sharing information and developer
libraries around is also a key element.

[DevastationEve]

Having "cores" doesn't mean that having MORE/LESS scales its performance. A Quad-core Intel CPU has a different architecture than the CellBE. Usually they're referring to how many units of execution there are or how the processor is organized. Consumer level desktops/laptops that ship with processors from either AMD or Intel are very different from what gets put into a console (closed architecture). Intel and AMD have to build their CPUs according to several variables:

*socket compatibility/upgrade readiness
*current generation performance/prices/profitabili ty expectations
*architecture versatility (entry- mid- and high-end level offerings, mobile/ultra mobile/desktop use)
*competitive manufacturer price/performance

CellBE could not capitalize on any of those, so it was never able to hit the mainstream (besides being used in servers and consoles).

[PS360PCROCKS]

Ok so problem solver what you're essentially saying is that what the PS4 needs is just better programmers? I would agree with the fact that the cell can be used even more efficiently. But they obviously can't put out a new machine with the same parts. I would assume the RSX would be sent away and a much more powerful GPU would be used. From what I know the biggest problem with the PS3 is the RSX isn't that powerful. Is the Cell basically limitless if you have the GPU to push the math? If that makes sense

[thehitman]

IBMS PowerXcell 8i is like a 8 core proccessor... a lot of devs like EPIC and ppl who made cyrsis engines said that their almost identical from quad and the cell and said that the cell is much more powerful. When EPIC was making UT3 they said that making the ps3 version helped optimizing their engine for the PC version to better run on quads and cyrsis developers said almost the samething when comparing the 2.

Also I know that a SPU is not the same as a core but the way u develop for them is the same where they are both parallel processors.

[ProblemSolver]

@PS360WiiRocks: "Ok so problem solver what you're essentially saying is
that what the PS4 needs is just better programmers?" Very true. The current
PS3 can easily be spiced up to deliver a powerful system for a possible PS4.
Just add another Cell processor (possibly both on one die), a reworked RSX
with about 500MB - 1GB VRAM @ 50GB/s, and about 2GB - 4GB of RAM with a
bandwidth of either 50 or even 100GB/s. Such a system offers a *tremendous*
performance! However, this is only one side of the coin. Hardware, today, is
leaps ahead when compared to its utilization. It's of utmost importance that
game developers get trained in parallel programming. Building a solid
foundation here is teH key for the next generation. And if you look at it,
this is what's actually happening. Sony's first party game-developer studios
gather a lot of information on how to solve certain problems on a multi-core
architecture. And this information is already shared between each other and
helps to grow the base even more as time goes by. For example, the knowledge
Naughty Dog gathered with UC2 will pay-off *even more* further down the road.
Hardware means nothing, hardware is cheap and fast. But this doesn't hold for
software.

I hope you got something out of it, was my last bubble.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Good explanation, thank you. I'm excited for the future for sure.

[gumgum99]

the cell... http://www.youtube.com/watc...

well, at least Sony could use the cell next generation, if they want to.

[jack who]

well sony bailed out now ibm whos left?

[GrandpaDoakes]

this as something to do with the new world order!!!

[DevastationEve]

Oh boy...let's just hope IBM has something better planned for PS4 then, or else just maybe they lost their contract to Intel with their Larrabee.

That's going to hurt PS3's credibility though, having its much hyped processor canceled only 3 years into its life. It sure did provide developers with great results, but it never hit the mainstream and its costs to work with and train developers to efficiently utilize the CellBE architecture outweighed its results.

If PS3 games could've been priced at $79.99 then maybe developers could make back dev costs quicker. Now you see why IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT TEH SALES! Uncharted 2 and KillZone 2 might have insane visuals (to some) but they weren't sound investments from a business standpoint. They didn't generate the revenues of a COD or Halo title.

[devilhunterx]

You make less sense each time you post. But here is a cookie for your effort

[DevastationEve]

okay, well then humor me and come up with something closer to the truth than what i've already stated.

(...waiting)

[Tripl3seis]

Hahahahaha look at the bots happy cus ibm is not developing the cell no more. Look idiots toshiba builts the cell and gives it to sony 2 put it on the ps3 u guys are f@cking stupid read for once for god sakes.

[jack who]

you should try doing what you said....sony sold their rights to Toshiba...after the ps3 came out

[ZombieAutopsy]

most xbots are at a 3rd grade reading lvl if that.

[sak500]

U sonyturds can't even accept the article from yoru own community playstationuniversity.com

HAHAHA coming in to defend your lastplaceforeverestation3.

[Sigh]

If it weren't for the cell processor you wouldn't have had your limited-but-a-ripped-off processor in the 360s you have today. Source: read the book "race for a new console". Goes in specific detail how at first microsoft had their own processor in the beginning of development then heard news of PS3s cell which would make them scrap their original abd delt with ibm to create a similiar but limited version. Point: don't be hypocrites.

[donscrillinger]

well thats the end of sony's ps3 maybe ps4 can do something

[Solotov]

Consider all the hype and development money, the Cell project has been a failure. It is less effective at running general purpose code than Intel, AMD, and IBM's microprocessors. Moreover, it is less effective at running graphics code compared to Nvidia and ATI GPUs. That's why Sony dumped the Cell and went to Nvidia at the last moment for the PS3 instead of using 2 Cell processors. It is no wonder that IBM, the creators and researchers of the Cell, is just letting it die off.

[cygnuszero]

Im not sure I would say it was a failure. It's done the job for the PS3, but even with games like Uncharted 2, its just not nearly what they said it was.

[Solotov]

Gabe Newell is laughing his fat ass off right now. John Carmack was right about the Cell all along.

Ken Kutaragi, "where is my 120FPS networked-super-Cell matrix at?" No wonder Sony fired/canned you.
Hopefully, Intel will bailout Sony for the PS4, who knows.....

RIP Cell (Nov., 20 2009)

[Draekoth]

Do you xbots honestly think that Toshiba and IBM will stop PRODUCING the cell because they have stopped its development? That's like saying, we know that the cell is still profitable but we don't want to take advantage of that. Please Sony, don't place anymore orders for the cell processor because we don't like profit.

Too complex for you? Let me break it down even further, just because Microsoft stopped developing the pleasefixme does that mean that they stopped production? Why turn away profit if the market is still there?

If anything it means that IBM is planning on working on future projects. Perhaps next-gen CPU's? Considering how Microsoft got the shaft from IBM this gen, wouldn't it make more sense for them to go to Intel for the next-gen Xbox cpu?

Logic xbots, use it...

[TABSF]

The Cell B.E. was created for networking and compression, Sony jumped in for it to have it in the PS3.

IBM has been crippled in recent times by Nvidia Tesla and by AMD, also IMB Roadrunner Servers had AMD opterons to support the Cell B.E.

For example one S1070u Tesla Blade by Nvidia with only 4 processors was more powerful than 7 or 8 blades which contained 14/16 Cell B.E. and 28/32 AMD opterons.

If IBM servers were failing to make money of course they were going to dump the Cell B.E., they are expensive to produce and make no money.

http://www.computerworld.co...

[C_Dub]

That Uncharted 2 maxed out the PS3. Not a terrible thing though, U2 was and still is incredible and much higher quality than anything you're going to find on 360. But when you look back at things, all these games that were supposed to take PS3 above and beyond compare (Resistance: FoM, MGS4, Uncharted 1) were all great in their own ways but not enough to literally be blown away. Then Resistance 2, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 were all supposed to show the REAL power of the PS3...All were great but where's our native 1080p60 games at we were promised at launch? And now supposedly God of War 3, Heavy Rain, and GT5 will show what PS3 is really about. Can games in this generation get THAT much better? I hope we hear news in 2010 about the next-gen consoles.

Wii obviously wins this gen, as bad as that is. 360 will finish second and PS3 will take 3rd even though I believe it has the best first and second party games and exclusives. It just didn't generate the sales it needed out the door in the opening year.

[cygnuszero]

The cell was developed 4 years ago, it's old technology now. Fact is you can buy a better proc for you PC for a reasonable price. It makes sense for them to move on.

Actually the fact that they stuck with 1 proc for this long is very unusual in this industry. New/better technologies are constantly being produced.

[horndog]

IBM sees where the cell is heading and bailed out on sony and it won't be to long before toshiba does the same.

RIP cell.

You were expensive and useless and will be remembered as another short lived waste of money peace of crap such as the mini disc, beta and other bad creations by sony. May you join them and find peace in the recycling depo.

but but bu ........teh cell

Buahaaahahahhahaha.

[ProblemSolver]

527 days ago, about how the Cell processor compares to a P4 and against the
three PowerPC processors within the 360 from a pure computational standpoint;
http://n4g.com/NewsCom-1555...

[MultiConsoleGamer]

The people who think this is the end of the Playstation franchise are insane.

Tinfoil hat much?

The future of gaming will be unlike anything we currently expect.

[pshizle]

why didn't steve jobs make the switch to intel instead of the cell.

[Immortal321]

It can stop the competitor from copying the cell's tech. and since the ps3 is build for the future the ps3 can compete with newer competition.

[TABSF]

Sony and Toshiba don't have the rights or the technology to manufacture the Cell B.E. so if IBM does discontinue the Cell then PS3 can't be made once stocks deplete

[tojfrd7931z]

Seeing as how IBM is SOOO on top of new technology.

[Alan Wake]

hehheheheheheheehehhe cancels

crap cell hehehehehehhehehe

flopstation 3

[The real killer]

How many FLOP-TARDS use a another accounts, just bashing this article?
You and your follow kids 360 tards are so silly.

The Cell is still powerful, why IBM stop developing the 32 cores Cell has nothing to do with the PS3, the PS3 still use the 8 Cores Cell.

This was a part of the deal with Sony and Thosiba, IBM can now use the Cell architecture for him self even the Powercell what the 360 have is made with the technology from the Cell, that's the deal between IBM and Sony for development for the Cell.

Don't forget, IBM/Sony and Thosiba develop more than 7 years the Cell architecture and it's now ending, it's just a normal business for it's development.

[DaTruth]

I'm going to do a study on the depletion of I.Q due to fanboyism.

The amount of stupid things I just read.

[Equinoxe_7]

Fanboys never learn, I still read the same crap as I reed 3 years ago.