Air Force To Expand PlayStation-Based Supercomputer

Informationweek.com writes: The U.S. Air Force is looking to buy 2,200 Sony PlayStation 3 game consoles to built out a research supercomputer, according to an document posted on the federal government's procurement Web site.

The PlayStation 3s will be used at the Air Force Research Laboratory's information directorate in Rome, N.Y., where they will be added to an existing cluster of 336 PlayStation 3s being used to conduct supercomputing research.

[Godmars290]

IBM stopped Cell development, Sony might not be putting Cell tech in the PS4, yet the US military is buying PS3 to access their Cells for various applications.

And all fanboys can say is, "Cell iz dead! Cell Fail!"

Meanwhile the PS3 is still currently outselling the 360 which tells you the worth of fanboy arguments...

[Alcohog]

Stopping cell development does not mean stopping cell production.

[gaffyh]

@1.1 - Wow, someone who actually makes sense on N4G. Bubbles up to you!

On topic - It Only Does Everything :)

[wxer]

i agree with @ 1.1
just bare one thing in mind

the is more that one versions of the cell
and there is 3
one of them optimized for super computers ( IBM )
the other one for gaming ( Sony )
the last on for TVs ( Toshiba )

so IBM stopped with the super computer versions
that dose not mean that the gaming version or the TV version well be stopped

on topic
.
.
.
.
.
It Only Does Everything

lol

[mint royale]

+bubbles 1.1

Thats how you post a positive comment without having to resort to fanboy drivel like the OP does.

[Golfcoachh]

The U.S. military will probably pay $50,000 for each one. Thats they way the U.S. govt likes to do things. lol

[raztad]

Actually is only IBM pulling out of cell development. Most probably Sony will continue doing research on its own.

For PC fans and the lame Thesithaxis site: Why the USA Air Force is gonna use 2200 PS3 instead of 2200 Intel most advanced processors if The cell is dead in the water?

@bellow

Jealous much? why do you care about PS3 supposedly low attach ratio? I doubt you have fun when other gamers buy or play their games. And yeah, The PS3 is an incredible BluRay player. Awesome picture quality.

EDIT: Pretty retarded an lame answer. I'm not expecting more though. If that was the case why the xbox is not being used?

EDIT2: I agree that this topic is not gaming related, but just yesterday we went through two articles stating how dead The Cell was, so I guess this one is an interesting insight. And come on, buy that PS3, Demons Souls ALONE makes that purchase more than worthy. It will give you many hours of a pretty satisfying gaming experience.

[Guitarded]

It's no wonder PS3 attach rate is low. How many articles have there been stating companies/govt. agencies have bought PS3s as servers? How does this help the gaming industry? How does this help Sony? Never selling a game or movie for 2200 PS3s means this transaction cost Sony money unless they are now making a profit. They last announced they are still losing money on the PS3 shortly after it's release. This is not good news for Sony or gaming in general.

EDIT: The Air Force is using them because they are cheap and do the job they need done. Most things are cheaper towards the end of their life cycle.

EDIT2: Yes I am a little jealous of UC2 and Demon Souls. Not enough to buy a PS3 but jealous none the less. What does that have to do with my post or this article? Attach rate indicates the relative health of a systems gaming community. These systems sold won't add to the gaming community or the movie watching public for that matter. That makes it a relevant topic of discussion in a gaming forum.

EDIT3: The 360 was designed specifically as a gaming machine. The PS3 and the cell in particular were designed as multifunction media devices. That is why the cell is being used in other electronics and for other purposes. It was designed to.

[commodore64]

@ guitarded.

dude, bubbles up.
Your post is full of facts and truthful honesty.
Wish we had more of your sort on here.

Alas, we have to make do with the ps3 fankids, who freak out the moment they hear what they don't want to hear.

[ThanatosDMC]

It really only does everything. I thought intel's new CPU were gonna beat the Cell... guess not.

^HAHAHA! If you think PS3 games only has U2 and Demon's Souls then, good for you i guess.

@ kwyjibo

That makes sense. HAHAHA! Bart's Scrabble word.

[kwyjibo]

Raztad:
"For PC fans and the lame Thesithaxis site: Why the USA Air Force is gonna use 2200 PS3 instead of 2200 Intel most advanced processors?"

It's because the PS3 is sold at a loss. Whereas Intel chips and their associated equipment are sold at a profit.

The price/performance ratio is going to look better on the PS3.

ThanatosDMC:
"I thought intel's new CPU were gonna beat the Cell."

You thought right. Core i7's and Core i9's would blitz the Cell in general purpose computing. The i9 has six general purpose cores.

[commodore64]

@ kwijibo

ANOTHER great post!

You are spot on dude.
The US airforce ain't stupid.
They know a good deal when they see it...

While Sony is pricing the cell below cost, the cell remains great value.
After all, at below cost, Sony is PAYING YOU to buy it!

That's the truth right there.

[Guitarded]

I've only recently begun to post thoughtful and less fanboyish comments and it's nice to see somebody notice.

@kwijibo. I agree with commodor64. Excellent post!

EDIT: No Thantos, I know there are more exclusive games. I just have no interest in any of them except UC2 and Demon Souls. Further more, a vast majority of non-exclusive games that I also like, play better on the 360 for more reasons than just graphics, so I have little incentive to spend almost $500 for a PS3 and two games plus tax. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings.

EDIT2: That is incorrect raztad. The cell runs number crunching kind of code relatively easily. It is game code that is a chore to run on it. I'm lazy or I'd provide links. Google is our friend.

EDIT3: You ZBlacktt may be correct. Sonys first and second party studios have shown what the PS3 is capable of if you can spend lots of time and money on development of new engines to run on the jack of all trades and master on none PS3. Too bad it's not like last generation where third parties could actually afford to make their games better on the XBox then on PS2. Way better! More power is a wonderful thing, but only if it's cost effective to use.

[raztad]

@kwijbo

I agree about the PS3 being an incredible value, a powerful machine costing less than a cheap Graphic card. That's something PC fans should remember every time they come up with stupid comparisons.

However I disagree that the USA AIR FORCE is just trying to save some bucks. LOL. Thats so funny. Do you think someone is gonna put him/herself into the nightmare to code for the PS3 unorthodox arch just to save some bucks? this is not a random individual getting a PS3, this is a powerful organization which happen to have HUGE budgets for this kind of stuff.

I guess that eventually some processor will beat the old Cell in raw calculation power, it's bound to happen but it's very telling it's taking more than 3 years already.

EDIT: The cell is pretty poor as a general purpose CPU. It's optimized for raw performance, number crunching for instance. The cell is more akin to a GPU than a regular PC cpu. This should give you a clue on why the Air Force is getting PS3s for its cluster.

[ZBlacktt]

So in other words, the PS3 is the better more elite machine than the Xbox is just what you stated? I mean some already knew this. It's just nice to see a Xbox users finally be able to say it too.

[Godmars290]

But how is Skynet suppose to have CPUs ready for the T series if humans don't do the research?

[Boty]

Jealous much? And did you know that a Supercomputer is different from a server? A super computer researches while a server serves information to its clients. Maybe you don't see the point this article is trying to say. To sum it up its saying that a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE is being BOUGHT BY THE U.S of FREAKING A to create a FREAKING SUPERCOMPUTER, and your ranting because 2,500 of the consoles won't be used to play games and movies? Your absolutely retarded.

EDIT:
A number of people are saying that the CELL is only good for "number crunching". Well Duh! What do you guys think a computer CPU processes? LETTERS? You guys make it sound like its a bad thing that the CELL is only made for Crunching Numbers. In fact Computers run on changes of state that are represented in Binary or "0"s and "1"s which are numbers. If anything the cell is able to do more at once due to the amount of cores. In fact I wouldn't want to buy a processor that isn't good at number crunching.

[frostypants]

I would wager that while the i7 and i9 are indeed better for general purpose computing, the Air Force's needs (and games, for that matter) don't fall under that category. If you took an i7/i9 and a Cell and had each run a game or anything else requiring raw number crunching power, without any GPU support, the Cell would still likely annihilate the latest Intel offerings.

Intel/AMD chips are designed under the assumption of pairing with a GPU. The Cell was not. In fact the original PS3 design called for a second Cell chip to handle graphics, instead of the GPU they have now. The only reason they didn't do so was cost and perhaps an effort to ease developer transition.

[kwyjibo]

"However I disagree that the USA AIR FORCE is just trying to save some bucks. LOL. This is a powerful organization which happen to have HUGE budgets for this kind of stuff."

I mentioned the price/performance ratio of the PS3, price/performance is two words - they're worried about both.

The USAF might have big budgets, but they're getting squeezed and they're getting slashed. The cancellation of the Raptors shows you that.

You mentioned that the Cell is more akin to a GPU, well if price were not an issue - they'd get themselves the latest ATI 5x00s or nVidia Fermis. Hell, if price weren't the issue - they'd have just bought IBM cell blades!

[sikbeta]

Please kid, stop it, you don't care about the PS3, I don't know why are you making a post in an article related to PS3, you sure have a console, right?, why don't you go play a game, have some fun and let people that have interest in this article alone

About the article concerning to IBM and the CELL:

http://www.n4g.com/tech/New...

But, everyone above me, specially Alcohog got everything CLEAR, except Guitarded and commodore64 obviously

[randomwiz]

ibm stopping cell development means the ps3 cell processor won't get smaller than 45nm

[rockleex]

http://www.n4g.com/tech/New...

[Raf1k1]

I guess it makes sense since a couple of thousand PS3s are cheaper than using a supercomputer. Supercomputers cost vast amounts of money to build and apparently even renting usage time is very costly.

[Blaster_Master]

The power of the cell reigns supreme. LOL!

[Godmars290]

Still you think hearing about something like this when the US military is known of buying $500 screwdrivers, IBM would dump a few million on lobbyist to make a few billion to "help" with research.

[kraze07]

"Still you think hearing about something like this when the US military is known of buying $500 screwdrivers"

What! $500 screw drivers? Must've been the Air Force. I'm in the Navy and I can tell you I've never seen any overly expensive tools or anything like that. We don't even have internet access in the barracks where I'm at and we're just now getting a commisary.

[Guido]

They wanted the most reliable platform to perform their computing needs. The PS3 is rock solid so I think it is safe to once again say, it only does everyting.

[Golfcoachh]

and I saw them waste money like it was going out of style. We spent 5 million dollars to move our Battery from ft. sill Oklahoma down to White sands New mexico, just to spend a month in the field. It is the only place in the U.S. that you could live fire our Missiles. The first day in the field 30+ guys had heat exhaustion and so we spent a total of 3 days in the field and 27 days playing cards and screwing around in the barricks. 5 million for 3 days of work. Nice. So yes the Military spends money like its going out of style.

[gamerdude11]

I wonder how they are going to do this without any Linux support in the PS3?

[randomwiz]

I assume it works much like folding@home

[U-asked-for-it]

unlike the trash box 3-60% :
IT ONLY LACKS EVERYTHING

[Blaster_Master]

Wow, I was just being sarcastic, but whatever you say man.

[oldsnayke]

you don't see the 360 being used by thet USAF, now do you? Imagine that... "HEY, MAN... CHECK OUT ALL OF THE INFORMATION WE'VE FOUND! *360 RROD* AHHH ****, THERE GOES FOUR MONTHS OF RESEARCH!"

[Godmars290]

No general offense, but why use derivative tech when you have access to the real thing?

[Apocwhen]

Won't they need the 'Other OS' feature to make use of them, and that feature no longer exists in the PS3 Slim. Unless they will also be getting SDK's from Sony too.

[TwistedMetal]

Skynet will become self aware and creat a air plane that can download the whole internet like the one in stealth. skynet then will create Terminator. The only that can stop it is the ps4's unequaled power. Why do you think they stopped working on future cells? Its because they know the inevitable would happen quicker. Its to late because the government took over the cell projects because its to easy for terrorist to have super computer power on the cheap. What has sony done to our future? We need to buy every ps4 to stop perfect cell because its power lvl is over 9000000000!

[Blaster_Master]

Where's Piccolo when you need him? LOL!

[Nitrowolf2]

oh god
is kaz, john connor?

[xabmol]

come with me if you want to live."

[ReBurn]

I have a question that the article didn't answer. Are they using development kits like game developers use? Are they using Linux? Most of the supercomputer clusters that I've read about use networked PS3's running Linux. If the government is going to buy 2,200 new PS3's, where would they get them if they use Linux? The slim doesn't support the installation of Linux, so would the government be picking up used consoles?

Just wondering...

[Nitrowolf2]

well i think they are going to open them up and take what they need from them, i honestly can't see using Linux fromt he ps3 itself. or they could just be picking them up for there troops who knows
@below yes that is true couldn't read the article, anyway the us army has done some crazy things before so i would not be surprised if they took the ps3 apart.

[ReBurn]

Opening them up and modifying the hardware is against Sony's terms of use. Unless there's a special license in place the government doesn't have the right to do that. And they aren't for the troops. The article says that they're going to be added to a superccomputer cluster that already exists.

[sikbeta]

WE probably hear about a DEAL, Sony let them take what they want, after all the units are sold, because the Fatties can use the PowerPC architecture Linux OS that hasn't the same software support as the I386/64bits architectures

[hoops]

The Government is not exactly known to make wise purchases...
Especially the Military LOL

[Noctis Aftermath]

Theres always a first time for everything!

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

Totally agree...

You don't wanna know half the stuff their shelling out for...

[jerethdagryphon]

its fine in numbers even if they buy the wrong ones its 'only

660,000 and im faily sure thell get the right ones

[artgamer]

haha, "It Only Does Everything" never rang so true.

[crck]

This is probably why Sony took the OtherOS option out of the Slim. Research facilities were probably buying a ton of ps3s. So Sony was actually subsidizing everybody's research. Because these systems were never going to be used to buy games or blu-ray movies where Sony could actually make some of the money back.

[ReBurn]

I'd wondered if that was the case. There are tons of articles where colleges have used retail PS3's to build supercomputer clusters that run Linux, and IBM offers development software for free.

http://www.ibm.com/develope...

I wouldn't doubt that Sony realized what people were doing with the machine and took the option out so that they didn't lose money for others to save money.

[DaTruth]

I don't think you could buy 2200 PS3's from Bestbuy. They will have to have a deal with Sony and it wouldn't be subsidized!

Retailers also are not allowed to sell most products in bulk unless they have a arrangement with the manufacturer. That is why PS3's always cost the same from retailer to retailer; there are no middlemen except in non-standard markets and no suggested retail prices.

[Nitrowolf2]

bingo

that what those people who are saying its dead fail to see, developemt does not equal production of it. They are still making them, just not progressing with it any further caus ethey got new plans.

[bjornbear]

and the cell itself is now redundant to develop, so they will keep producing it to sell PS3's, but now move onto new tech for, lets say, PS4

makes sense since it'll probably take quite a few years to get the next gen of cell in mass production, so they have to focus resources on new tech, and leave old tech behind

people who fail to comprehend this are tech-dummies =/

[sikbeta]

I really want to see the CELL2 as a CPU+GPU hybrid architecture unit, the same we see now with the PS3 that have CELL + Nvidia GPU but in the same "package", that will make more easy the stuff for the whiners developers lol

[Alcon Caper]

us airforce gearing up for MAG

[xaviertooth]

hahaha! why not? when not folding for a cancer cure, or when not used to military research, Air Force people will use them to play the best games available in this generation.

[StarScream4Ever]

MW2 party. :P

[Godmars290]

I think MAG would be more suitable for 22K consoles. 9v9 vs 128v128.

[bjornbear]

this is awsum =D who said the future wars will be digital is starting off well with a PS3 =D

it only does everything =)

[gdguide]

Not only are they saving money on the slim model now purchase price... They're also saving a LOT of energy costs as well with the slim getting more energy efficient. Imagine 2200 PS3s and the power they could consume. That extra energy savings with the slims now is huge.

[kingboy]

Well a certain ps2 was being used to guide rocket missiles back then,why not go for an upgrade lol

[EpsilonTeam]

I'm confused. No more cell? Now that IBM is out. Do we have any info on PS4 cpu?

[Erotic Sheep]

Here

[sashimi]

I can picture it now....the USAF picking up 2,200 PS3 so they can do more "supercomputing research" which is code word for Lan parties lol

[SuperbVillain]

ps3...it only does,everything.

[JonnyBigBoss]

Sounds proper. USAF for life.

[ZBlacktt]

Just another example of the truth about this console system. It is the elite machine and that is no fanboy talk. Look up all the other world facts the PS3 does other than gaming/entertainment. Searches for oil in the worlds oceans, Folding@home, etc.

[Sir Ken_Kutaragi]

...BOMBS"!!! ;-D

[Obama]

Operation RROD??

[insomnium]

Priceless!!!

[ZBlacktt]

Did you guys see this one. Yet another world record set by the PS3 cell just out.

http://www.ps3news.com/foru...

[Bladestar]

lol! this has absolutely nothing to do with the future of the CELL.

The reality is that since the PS3 can run Linux and can be use for something other than games but more importantly it cost a lot less than other computers that cost more.

I mean, hell $299 for a computer? not to mention that Sony will probably give them a big discount... probably selling each for $149 or $199 each... what kind of computer can you get with that?

I am a developer and recently my company is looking at the possibility of using PS2.. yes PS2... internal to create terminals that can be use as credit card processors. Sure as hell is because of cost and not because the PS2 is the most powerful computer on earth.

For those too dumb to remember Sony sold their Cell operations to toshiba:

http://www.joystiq.com/2007...

and now IBM is shutting down....

so, if you think that's not a sign of the end of the CELL as we know it... you are an complete idiot. because a) Sony wouldn't sell it's operations and b) IBM wouldn't be shutting it down.

are they shutting down because the CELL sucks? No... it can be best discovery since "fire" but company are not willing to replace the x86 base architecture... forget it. this is what happen with PS2 emo chip... that promised to change the world... and suffer the same fate.

anyone that knows a thing or two about CPU and their architectures know that all PC makers and hardware manufactures are staying with x86 base CPU and focusing multi-core. because multi-core do not require much changes if any on the software and development tools or change the way developers have to write code. No one wants to drop all the research and development they have invested on their existing platform. Not going to happen.

Even Apple dropped IBM CPUs... in favor of Intel... though many argued that the IBM were better... but it kept the platform from receiving more and more support. do your research... the CELL is an evolution of those CPUs... IBM was just trying to see if they can get back into the CPU game.... and they failed.. and now they are moving on...

who knows.. maybe 5-10 years from now they try again... with another CELL like CPU that will force everyone to have to re-write all their APIs and code....

sucks for PS3 developers... next playstation (assuming sony does not drop out of the console business)... will require developers to start from scratch as they did with the PS3... taking 2-3 years before they can match what the other consoles are doing.

[Nitrowolf2]

save us kaz!!!

[gumgum99]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[cpt_kaos]

1.7 in the gamer zone... 2200 ps3's doing work for the airforce beats another 2200 dead 360's

[TheTeam06]

Staying true to the motto, I suppose.

It Only Does EVERYTHING

[devilhunterx]

War has changed.
It's no longer about nations, ideologies, or ethnicity.
It's an endless series of proxy battles fought by mercenaries and machines.
War - and its consumption of life - has become a well-oiled machine.
War has changed.
ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear.
Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities.
Genetic control.
Information control.
Emotion control.
Battlefield control.
Everything is monitored and kept under control.
War has changed.
The age of deterrence has become the age of control.
All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction.
And he who controls the battlefield.
Controls history.
War has changed.
When the battlefield is under total control.
War becomes routine.

- Solid Snake

[ColossiSlayer]

is little closer to the truth than we thought.
"The money is already in your account"
All 660,000$ not including tax(HA!), and if they were MSRP(HA!).

[Makidian]

I think everyone is not thinking of the best possible thing one could think of when discussing 2500 PS3's being hooked together could do: What kind of aweseom game could be bron out of 2500 PS3's working together?

[gumgum99]

Stop lying to us, Military. We all know its because of Sky Net!!

[xg-ei8ht]

Seriously.

BFBC2 Beta, Best war game ever made.

It's like your really in it.

Get the beta.

Smacks other war games about the face.

[spektical]

ps3 - it only does everything

but yea, air force is gearing up for MAG.

[cpt_kaos]

LOL yeah make better simulator and more fun too.

[fOrlOnhOpe57]

The US military is looking to order 2200 xbox360s to be deployed in its Arctic installations. Their research reveals that xbox360s unique heat radiation qualities make it the perfect underfloor heating system.

[jack who]

30% of sold ps3 = been use for supercomputing

[SpartanZero]

A Japanese product. Seriously.