Ninja Theory Dev Comments on 10GB Audio, next game on dual bd?

A developer from Ninja theory responds to the recent news about the developers using over 10GB of space for only Heavenly Sword audio.

The developers came very close to using a dual layer blu-ray disc because even with the size of the single layer blu-ray disc, they were having problems fitting all all of the game's audio data onto a single layer blu- ray disc. According to the developer :

"We use a mixture of compressed and uncompressed, but lots were compressed for the reasons people have stated.
Make no doubt, fitting all the audio in and not stuttering and being the the highest quality we could get wasn't easy, it was quite a problem even with the size of blu-ray. At one point we seriously considered dual layer Blu-ray cos of disk space issues."

[Violater]

Before the fanboy dissection of this game begins.
I am glad they did not go to dual layer.
Clearly they could have gone all out and compressed it all, but with all the region free language options they welcomed the available capacity.

@ all the mindless trolls sure to follow in this thread, thanks for your meaningless contribution.
This game is sure to do fine for sure since you are all deem it necessary to be here.

[Lord Anubis]

I wish they had gone with dual layer. YOu see blu-ray will differentiates a good quality experience and a cinematic experience. I want the cinematic Experience. Perhaps you don't most of us do.

[nasim]

2 50GIG DUAL layered Blue Rays!!!!!!!!

GARBAGE BOX fanboys would just be confined to backdated 2$ DVD drive

[cuco33]

STFU!

your comments are worse then DJ, up until we found out he JUST got a ps3 making any and all of his comments null and void but you sir are a tool

reread your posts before you hit the ADD REPLY button and ask yourself... do i look like a prepubecent virgen and am i contributing to the site or am i making yet another fanboy comment as usual? it's people like you that make the internet a sh*tty place

[xhi4]

Considering dual-layer blu-ray disc? Wow imagine that on a DVD 9....shattastic. I reckon MGS4/Killzone 2 will be dual-layered Blu Ray disc. Maybe Microsoft should incorporate either blu-ray drives into their models or hd-dvd drives. I mean in the future, lets say 5-6 years time right, the games will be so massive, they'd have to fit it on two or three dvd9s. That would be a major inconvenience. Many developers have stated the limitations of DVD9, i mean it is old gen technology.

[ENNO]

Kojima was asking is he could do it on dual layer last I heard!!

[TnS]

Is deep working at Ninja Theory or what? :)

[TriggerHappy]

Actually nah, not yet..:p but I cant post the link to the main source, those are developers quotes though. The source is well, you see it is devs playground and to keep it from the likes of fanboys, I did not add it.
Deep is is close to the devs...:)

[alexander22rednaxela]

A lesson in DVD geography and compression would be great.

[boi]

it says due to audio not gameplay length...theres a big difference

[Xbox 360 Will]

then our demo would have been the full game for the 360. So it looks more like DVD9 will become obsolete.

[thereapersson]

Here come the fanboys!

[snoop_dizzle]

holographics disks(i beleive its called that)?

jk.

But gee a dual layered bluray disk? Gosh.

[Dr Pepper]

Those Holographic discs hold a massive amount (yeah, that's what they're called). I hope they use them in the next consoles...

[Dragonopolis]

Unless the Flash Drive people get their act together. Write speeds are too slow and Holographic disc/card tech is pretty fast (near hard drive speeds).

Both have a cost disadvantage right now but I just don't see bandwidth given up so easily. Games will probably be pushing the dual 50 GB limit in size next generation (I don't even want to go there with what crazy/amazing games will happen next generation (PS4,next xbox). Think about all the digital distribution that is trying to go mainstream. With movie-on-demand, music, HD Movie downloads, Video Games combined on a monthly bases plus Parents and Students busy schedules talk about bandwidth pushing. More and likely removable storage medium will be here to stay for a long, long, time.

One thing I like about Holographic tech is that is can be used in moving disc form and non moving/movable card form. I believe there is a company out there that has a 30 GB Holo-storage card that is non movable and fast read and WRITE times.

To bad its just to darn expensive for the Reader (discs are really cheap another advantage over Flash drives). On a positive note for Flash though is that their Readers are very Cheap. I rather pay the higher upfront cost first of a Holographic Reader, then pay for the actually storage cheap than pay expensive flash drive every time I need to storage.

But that's me......

[jared81799]

amazing

[Russbomb]

Someone disagreed with "amazing"

Anywho, I really think that if gears, halo 3, and mass effect can squeez on 9 GB, then so can heavenly sword. I just don't think that they are using the right compression teckniques like the 360 devs are.

Although I could be wrong. Maybe PS3 exclusives really can't be on the 360.

[DEADEND]

Its funny how people complain about how HEAVENLY SWORD is too short but they don't mention that about GEARS now do they, now thats a short game. I finished it in 3 1/2 hours easy. And I don't get how they think HEAVENLY SWORD is short when its a 12 to 15 hour game.

[MrSwede]

Good point man! Really 3,5 hours? Man I feel like a bad gamer or maybe you´re really good.

[alexander22rednaxela]

If that is true you could post your speedrun on youtube too prove it.
I have Gears and it takes 10 hours to complete.

[snoop_dizzle]

too.

[Charlie2688]

Well in my case in Casual it took about 4 hours (walk in the park), on Hardcore it took me around 6/7 hours (a little more challenge but still easy), NOW on Insane...oh boy at least 10/12 hours (most of the time I spent taking cover and regenerating health back and repeating certain parts again and again)

[Foliage]

I got through hardcore in under 5 hours. It was a short experience.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

3+ hours is really for the speedrun! But 10 hours? Don't make me laugh! I made it in about 6 hours on Hardcore in my first time trough the game!

[marionz]

bs you completed it in that time, thats such pre teen "my coks bigger then yours" sh1t.
and for all the people b1tching about this game being sooo big and taking up so much room on blu ray, remember the devs arnt compressing to save space, just like when resistance took up so much disc space.
this game looks fun sure, but graphically it still looks average, i say that because the textures as usual are fuzzy and streched looking, kinda like updated N64 textures
if i have to put up with multi disc games on 360 in the future i dont care, not when we get top shelf games like bioshock mass effect halo 3 and gears, that actually LOOK next gen

[Goshyujin_Sama]

alexander22rednaxela, ur the noob of the year if it takes u that long to beat gears, I beat it in 5hrs like nothing and even that is a bit long. Gears is an amazing graphical feat and loads of fun, but sadly the game is just way too short. According to the devs HS is 10-15hrs and thats quite good for an action adventure game for sure.

[WilliamRLBaker]

most all the audio was uncompressed, or used a very low compression for no reason at all.

I've seen heavenly sword it doesn't look special, its graphics dont look like any thing to remark about, when bathesda can have about 10X more audio then ninja theory and put it on one dvd, then some ones lieing, and that dev is ninja theory, they are lieing through their teeth.
Because they used lazy programming techniques and crap compression or no compression they need all the space they can get. And thats why heavenly sword looks like crap outside of its cut scenes.

[Whoooop]

WARNING!!!

[Xbox 360 Will]

Because the whole game looks spectacular. Quit trying to get attention by saying a bunch of nonsense. We know your blind, illiterate, and ride the short bus to school so your opinion doesn't count.

At least some real fanboys have valid things to state your just a wannabe looking for attention.

Everyone Put this fool on Ignore! Don't even give him the time of day from now on!

[MrSwede]

Yeah it´s on now!! (I´m not gonna fight though)

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

they say the same thing over and over and over.

and ALL the DUNGEONs look the SAME.

WAKE up.

[junk56]

just shut up.

[thereapersson]

I really believe your word against the word of the developers. Because, ya know, you were there the entire time they were developing the game.

Pathetic... you need to try harder next time.

[cartman313]

Good point Anego. The audio in Oblivion was really really bad. I couldn't stand talking to the beggers cause their voice would totally change. There was a total of what? 5 different voices in that game that everyone used? It got really annoying.

[techie]

Woah. Someone needs eyes. Name a game that has 4xAA, 8xAF, HDR, thousands of characters on screen - the best lighting, incredible animation, music, voice acting, the best looking character models around - huge draw distance, DOF, some of the most detailed level design, sharp textures - NOPE. Didn't think so.

You have cheek calling these devs lazy. They are connected very highly with Sony Cambridge now - they have been working on the game for 4 years - they have had the option of Blu-ray since they heard Sony was going to use it, and it allows for A LOT of possibilities. With 3.5 hours of music, 7.1 audio you are really sounding like a sour puss.

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

i know.

i loved OBLIVION but you could DEFINITLY see they were TRYING their hardest to make the GAME seem HUGE and DETAILED.

it WAS BIG, but VERY VERY repetive w/ alot of things.

IF that game was built from the ground up for BLURAY, it would be MUCH different.

SPACE IS NEEDED or we would STILL be using CDs.

and IT doesn`t take a GENUIS to figure that out.

[Real Gambler]

"most all the audio was uncompressed, or used a very low compression for no reason at all."

They use the Prague philarmonic, and then they should compress that sound even if they have plenty of space to use???? Maybe your brain was compressed since all that space obviously is not needed.

[DarkArcani]

someone never worked with audio before.

[Maldread]

Hmm, if you`re right about that Ninja Theory-Studio Cambridge connection, a statement by Jamie Macdonald from Sony, that said Studio Cambridge developed Heavenly Sword wasn`t as wrong as i presumed.

Can`t say i`ve heard about any game Studio Cambridge for PS3, so i was starting to wonder what they were up to, but if they are working with Ninja Theory that could explain it. Hope they`re working on some "own" games too though, they are a great developer. You don`t happen to know something i don`t though ;) ?

[techie]

Ninja Theory and Sony Cambridge have been swapping devs for years...a lot of Sony Cambridge is made up of former Ninja's and visa versa. Sony Cambridge have helped along the way I believe - but it's the Ninja's game. The most notable thing I think they did was to produce the demo build and test it so it could get released without taking dev time away from the Ninja's.

Cambridge made Formula One I think :)

[Mr VideoGames]

you know how Big the upcoming Game MASS EFFECT is? its Bigger than any Crap PS3 Title can get, you know how? be cause they delete Uneccesary Files that they Don't use and Shrink everything to the Limits of what was used but this Game they went all out and didn't even care there's so much unused data on this Game it's pointless the Game looks like CR@P and plays like SH*T cause the developers obviously don't have any expierence, they used as much data has they Can they don't Compact anything, expect LONG LOADING TIMES FanBoys and this is Exactly the reason the Game doesn't look Good

[Bathyj]

And you would know.

Angry people always think they know.

[Meus Renaissance]

DVD9 is not the answer, but no developer can seriously justify that they're considering to use up a dual-layered Blu-Ray disc let alone one disc of 25GB.

I'm sorry I don't buy this claim. They need better compression techniques if your telling me Heavenly Sword is a Dual-Layered BD game.

[Real Gambler]

Music is done by the Prague philharmonic if my memory is good. So are you suggesting they should then compress the results at 64k????? We are far from the little 3 notes tune we used to hear when playing on our snes here!!!

Then you get none else than Andy Serkis to do the motion capture, and yet again you should compress everything so you cannot see any details anymore?

Sorry, but they seem to go all in for this game. So not bothering about compression when you have the media to do it just make plain sense!!!!

[tplarkin7]

I find it odd that Insomniac and the HS developer both claim over 20GB of data. It was strange that "some of the audio is compressed and some is not" (paraphrase).

Isn't coding highly disciplined? Wouldn't all audio be treated the same?

[socomnick]

Having uncompressed audio for many many languages is unnecessary They should have focused on making a better longer game instead of the audio.

[Xbox 360 Will]

You've played the full game? Wow can i buy that copy off of you? You haven't played it so how do you know it isn't long enough? You probably would suck at it anyway so it would be a 40 hour game for you. Do you even own a system? Or do you have no life and come on here to try to make yourself sound masculine? Your truly pathetic.

@ below. Really 90% so you polled everyone in the world and they all told you what equipment they own? Boy there are a lot of unintelligent people on this site.

[Meus Renaissance]

I agree. 90% of the people playing this game won't even have a 7.1 state of the art sound setup. I just have a 28" SDTV, where's my love?!

[Azures]

Their is really no point in playing ps3 on a sd tv. Upgrade.

[popup]

By Brian Hastings of Insomniac games. Yes he works for Sony so noone can trust him and obviously he can't understand the complexity of games design like the self confessed geniuses who frequent this site.

Coughs

"If you ever hear someone say "Blu-Ray isn't needed for this generation," rest assured they don't make games for a living. At Insomniac, we were filling up DVDs on the PS2, as were most of the developers in the industry. We compressed the level data, we compressed the mpeg movies, we compressed the audio, and it was still a struggle to get it to fit in 6 gigs. Now we've got 16 times as much system RAM, so the level data is 16 times bigger. And the average disc space of games only gets bigger over a console's lifespan. As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

Granted, some really great Xbox 360 games have squeezed onto a DVD9. Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine's ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM. It also means that you're going to chew up more disc space for each level. With streamed textures, streamed geometry and streamed audio, even with compression, you can quickly approach 1 GB of data per level. That inherently limits you to a maximum of about 7 levels, and that's without multiplayer levels or mpeg cutscenes.

Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures. Resistance also had 30 single-player chapters, six multiplayer maps, uncompressed audio streaming, and high-definition mpegs. That all added up to a lot of space on the disc".

Sounds more like logic than witchcraft to me. I own, realize and admit the strengths and weaknesses in both 'fantastic game machines of future generation(tm)'

A small Jpeg of a sock completes my post.

[Bordel_1900]

Very good post. Bubbles for you.

[thereapersson]

I expect a n4g super genius to rally against that quote, stating why the extremely talented developers at Insomniac games are completely wrong and why DVD9 is better for compression's sake.

people never cease to amaze me around here...

[Naruto]

NEXT GAME ON DUAL BA?

[Bloodmask]

a Sony second party trying to justify Bluray. If these discs are roughly 3 times the size of DVD-9 how come all PS3 games aren't 3X larger.

I have read the review of this game stating it was rather short.

Another funny thing is that all 3rd party games are "all" on one disk on both systems. And if a game didn't fit just put it on 2 DVDs. Once again Sony trying to justify trying to force the adoption of Bluray through the PS3 to win the format war.

Do you really think that most consumers care about how much audio a game takes up on a disk?? No, most consumers are buying the Wii. I'm sure all the fanboys all have a high tech stereo setup with an HDMI output on their receiver. HAHA. These articles are released to get PS3 fanboys panties all wet.

Stop trying to justify your questionable marketing pushes Sony and just lower the price of the PS3 to that of the 360. Oh you can't bc Bluray has made that option impossible.

Ironic isn't it?

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

why aren`t we STILL using CDs for games?

[techie]

Woah. People are very defensive about this blu-ray issue.

Both Gears and Mass Effect struggled to fit on a DVD - don't you think highly creative and talented devs would take every hardware option given to them and make the most out of it. Size of storage has increased throughout the generations. They said they didn't need DVD for the PS2 - most games were on CD, but then gradually games moved to DVD's as audio, textures, data increased in quality.

For better quality you need more space.

NOW - here's where you fall. Space on a disc does not necessarily translate to the length of a game. We've been having long games since games were on CD's (and before of course). I'm not sure if you've seen all the voice acting, the cutscenes, the huge arenas, and environments, the 3.5 hours of music - it all takes up space.

"Do you really think that most consumers care about how much audio a game takes up on a disk??" No they don't need to know the ins and outs - they know what they SEE and they know what they HEAR. I don't need to know the exact amount of carrots a gold ring has, but the more carrots the more quality I can observe.

This is a quotation from a dev answering a serious question from another individual. Privately. You're lucky to even read it, and perhaps next time they should stay there. He's being honest - and he's one of the most talented devs to work on the PS3.

ps. there was no irony in what you said.

[thereapersson]

Bloodmask is averse to the notion of supporting something affiliated with Sony. I bet if Microsoft had included HD-DVD in the 360 and games used HD-DVD ROM, he wouldn't be arguing about these things.

[Xbox 360 Will]

So explain why Epic who is like a God to you 360 Fanboys because of Gears has also stated the great benefits for using Blu-ray? Epic isn't the only ones that have said it either. Answer that please. It isn't just Sony its most developers saying this. Even Rockstar said it. Your ignorance in the benefits of Blu-ray make you look unintelligent. You can only compress so much you know. When your company has to repeatedly come up with new compression techniques to fit information on your format their is a problem.

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

the more time goes on the more DEVS will say that.

SPACE IS YOUR FRIEND, when it comes to anything.

[thereapersson]

Bizzare Creations (pgr 4), Bioware (Mass Effect) as well! ;)

And you know what? Microsoft has had to develop special compression methods so developers can continue to use DVD9 without teetering on the brink of overflow.

If people don't need more space and should contine using storage methods of the past, why do we need bigger harddrives? Why not just compress the hell out of EVERYTHING and stick with an old 20gb? Why jump from CD to DVD? Lord knows compression can take care of that problem!

[Bloodmask]

It does get all the PS3 fanboys panties in a bunch.. Nothing more. May I ask all the PS3 fanboys above me what type of stereo equipment you have to take advantage of all the uncompressed audio?? A good stereo receiver to take full advantage of this sound is well over $1000 dollars. Not to mention a good set of speakers is a few thousand.

And Deep I am well aware of how much space in game assets take up. You are just another of the mindless zombies that believe all of this BS. Games can easily be put on multiple disks. The majority of the time cut scenes take up all the space. This is why Blue Dragon is on 3 disks. And this is the only reason that MGS4 "can only be done on Bluray."

Since you are so concerned with this "quality" do you listen to all of your music in an uncompressed form?? What, can you fit about 10 songs on your IPOD?? Do you see what I am getting at?

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

why aren`t we STILL using CDs for games?

[techie]

Bloodmask:

Like many people on here you failed to read what I actually said, but read a mere section and turned it into your own attack.

Listen to what I was replying to: "Blu-ray will never be needed, it is no advantage." I simply provided you with two games that struggled to fit on DVD's and the reasons why. You know it's an advantage. Simple.

Multiple DVD's is not prefferable for me - and it was annoying when we had to do so with multiple CD's. There's always a time to move on, and Sony took the chance to say "we need to move on now" in order to assure the growth of their games over a 7-10 year span. They are lucky in fact that it offers CURRENT developers to take advantage of it - they can get higher quality, and not have to waste dev time compressing, making hard decisions about content - and also making positive decisions on how they can use this space for the better. It's win win. Of course it's lose lose for the consumer in price (Sony weren't banking on having to release the PS3 so early on in blu-ray's life time).

I've further stated; data space does not have a direct correlation to game length - the latter is a dev choice through weighing up gameplay and level design - of course there isn't such a tight overhead for them.

Finally to your comments on "quality":

What I do NOW has no effect on what I enjoy and want to experience in the future. I've been watching DVD's for years - but have always enjoyed going to the cinema for the increased visuals and sound quality - and now I prefer HD.

I don't watch HD Television programs NOW - but I certainly would like the television companies to support my HDTV as I know I would find it more preferable.

I don't listen to uncompressed songs on my Zen, sadly I don't have speakers and a subwoofer to support the higher quality in sound for my ears ;) - I have headphones. If I could buy some high quality headphones, have a ZEN that would contain my whole music library at a high uncompressed bitrate, then I would prefer it, yes.

What we experience of technology does not mean we don't want to experience better - in fact I feel both Microsoft and Sony are trying to show us what we can experience even though we don't think we want it now.

I can't wait to experience the game, and I hope to support it with the best technology I can.

[thereapersson]

And a bubble! Mostly for mentioning the superior ZEN player in your post, but also for continuing to have a concise rebuttal.

I wish people would give me a bubble or two... :|

[aiphanes]

Just because microsoft screwed up and did not put in HD-DVD or bluray into the Xbox 360...does not mean you have to be bitter and piss all over Sony and their smart thinking when they decided to put in bluray standard into the PS3. It was a brillant move...they pretty much have one the bluray vs HD-DVD marketing war...and they will ultimately win the console war in a few years.

Bluray is definately better than DVD-9
Bluray is better than HD-DVD
50 GB is better than 8.5 GB
25 GB is better than 8.5 GB
25 GB is better than 15 GB
50 GB is better than 30 GB

PS3, Wii, and Xbox 360 all all good...
The Xbox 360 weak link is its reliability and its reliance on DVD9

[Xbox 360 Will]

Why do you talk so much Sh!t yet don't take the time to answer legitimate questions? I feel sorry for you. Ignorant people get the worst shock when they are proven wrong. You will look very silly as the benefits of Blu-ray become more apparent. Ignorance is the worst personality to have.

[techie]

I think attacking Bloodmask is slightly wrong, for he does some some correct things.

1. Can you support the media the game makers are providing (or even what the console offers - many don't even have an HDTV yet) ahum...

2. Multiple DVD's is an option that can be considered by devs who cannot use Blu-ray.

ps. thanks thereapersson! I obv know good sound quality by having a Zen and not an Ipod ;)

[Russbomb]

There seems to be a flow where devs are still used to the old format and later go to need more than the current format space. With the ps2 the teck stopped you from running games like gears, not the disk space.

Very interesting how one thing can hinder the devs while another lets them do more.

I do feel almost bad for epic and bungie that they have to limit themselves to 9 GB though, think of gears single player only five times longer!

[n4gbrane]

as per one of your posts in this thread....14.7 "A good stereo receiver to take full advantage of this sound is well over $1000 dollars. "

obviously your not very good with this whole interweb shopping thing but here's a top of the line 7.1 PCM stereo reciever for not just under $1,000.00 but under $550.00.

http:// http://www.amazon.com/JVC-R...

with a review:

http://reviews.cnet.com/av-...

[timmyp53]

.

[pilotpistolpete]

Ok, I don't see whats with all the xbots.

The game devs are lazy because they aren't compressing? The whole advantage right now of BR is that you don't have to compress since there's enough space.

The use of compression causes loss of quality. If not, why not just compress the living hell out of a game to fit it on a floppy?

With Blu-ray, You save time by not having to compress and you get the highest quality.

With HS, they tried to fit all the audio uncompressed, but found that to fit on a single layer BRD, they would indeed have to compress some parts.

How on earth you tools find a way to find fault in ps3/blu-ray/Ninja Theory because of this is beyond me.

[Bnet343]

Well there is nothing wrong with PS3 and Blu-Ray has it's advantages, but Ninja Theory isn't a proven game developer just yet. Looking at their track record, they did Kung Fu Chaos for Xbox and that sucked huge balls. I'll wait for all the legit reviews too see what they say about HS.

[Naruto]

answer why is Blue Dragon is Three disks?

[Bnet343]

The cutscenes take up most of the space. If Blue Dragon had in-game cutscenes, I'm willing to bet it would be on a single disc.

[DJ]

and got compressed down to 25GB (this is the secondary layer of compression done on most 360 titles). Would you care to explain exactly how much of that space was dedicated to properly explaining the epic story of Blue Dragon?

[hella whip]

@17.1 So why didn't they use in-game cutseens??? seems that the developer wanted to use CG Cutscenes and because of that had to inconvieniance players by having 3 discs.

Imagine how many discs it would of took up with 7.1 audio, but then thats why the Xbox elite doesn't come with HDMI 1.3 because you would never be able to fit the audio on the discs for it to use the sound features of 1.3.

[Bnet343]

I don't know why. I'm not the head of Mistwalker and I'm not a game developer, I really don't know. I'm guessing it's either harder or they just wanted their game to be beautiful so they use CG cutscenes to make the game look epic. A lot of Japanese companies use CD cutscenes for RPG's, like Square Enix.

[Whoooop]

I think it's time for you to take a little break.. Go take some time off we know you're tired..

Get those energies back at full swing again.. Common play some PS3, it will make you feel better..

my treat :)

[ApocalypseShadow]

more sound is a good thing.and i'll give examples:

i like nfl 2k5 for my xbox.(i will never buy madden again-last was madden 92)how much sound could i put in such a game of american football if it was on bluray?

lets see:
sunday night football commentary
monday night football commentary
saturday afternoon commentary
playoffs commentary
superbowl commentary
all star(pro bowl) football commentary.
different commentators from different cities or shows besides just 2.there could be 10 different commentators.there's no limit.

i could play a season of football mixed in with jokes,stats of players,talk of the local cities i'm playing in,music,crowd chatter,etc.i could see nfl highlights of some of the best plays in football history on the disc or playing picture in picture while picking a play.

I WOULD BARELY HEAR THE SAME THING TWICE WITH ALL THAT SOUND ON ONE BLURAY DISC.

now let's look at football(soccer) for wordwide fans:

i could hear the voice of the game in multiple languages from french,german,english,italian, dutch,african,etc. for the game leading up to the world cup all on one disc.i could get world cup commentary.jokes,stats,crowd chatter,blah,blah,blah blah blah.

bloodmask would rather hear the same MADDEN commentary over and over until you turn that broken record off.he would rather hear the same commentary for a regular game of football as it would be for a superbowl game.he has no idea because of hate for sony on what more disc space can do for games.he also believes that there's only one language spoken.or that making one "worldwide" disc would be cheaper for sony.

just because ninja theory used the disc this way,doesn't mean the bluray discs can't be used in other ways like i mentioned.the freak.

................mag lev super train....................

[Yosking]

anything heavenly has to be huge. I dont know what everyone's fussing about lol...simply said this game is coming out sept. and its gona be a friggin' hit nuff said.
rock on ps3

[DJ]

And I have to say that the quality is Sick! Tried to get Deja Vu, but they were sold out of it (-sad face-). My neighbor came over to try out my system, and as soon as he turned the system on he was like "Damn...it looks like it's worth $600". Apparently, not a lot of people know about the price cut. =P

Man, this is gonna be a lot of money, just between Warhawk, Lair, and this title.

[Azures]

Some people just try to deny a simple fact: Technology moves forward. Blu-ray and HD-DVD are that result.

And yes, I have no doubt that if 360 had a build in HD-DVD player that Bloodmask would be defending it to the death.

[DarkArcani]

For people that don't know about audio. READ!!!

A high sample rate audio track that is uncompressed is huge. An uncompressed CD quality audio track will take up to 10 MB of space per min. Thats PER MINUTE and thats just CD quality, not HD quality. CD's have a sample rate of 44100 Hz, HD (whether it be Bluray or HD-DVD) has a sample rate of 192000 Hz. 192000 (SR) x 16 (res) x 2 x 60 (time) / 8 (size in bytes) = 46,080,000 bytes. That's for one minute, ONE HOUR you have close to 3 gigs (2764800000 bites). x that by five and you have 13,824,000,000 bytes. Yes 14 gigs.
Super Audio CD(SACD) Samples at 2,822,400 Hz, that's about as high in the audio food chain it gets.
And yes there is a noticeable difference. Get a pair of good speakers and play a CD and then play the same CD but in an mp3 format. It sounds very desaturated.
*Important* I'm not supporting 'the reason for bluray' thing. I'm just saying, if you say the audio for the game is "probably uncompressed" your wrong.

[techie]

"I'm just saying, if you say the audio for the game is "probably uncompressed" your wrong." Well I think the dev told everyone that with this comment: "We use a mixture of compressed and uncompressed, but lots were compressed for the reasons people have stated."

Note everyone the significance of this. People were stating that they were making it up about the 10gb and they were being lazy not compressing at all. They ARE compressing. Like any dev they are doing a cost/benefit calculation. They have space they can use which provides better quality - they STILL compress!

[DarkArcani]

Especially when they are region free games. Plus it takes more rendering power to uncompress audio, energy that can be used elsewhere to make the game look/function better.
"they are doing a cost/benefit calculation." <-- Exactly.

[techie]

Oui oui. We have a clever one! It is an honour!

[tk]

Adds to the game. I keep on replaying the Motorstorm intro. It is really cool. The cutscene with the bass voice giving the introduction... really good. It all adds to the atmosphere. If they can put more on 50GB, let them. Don't compress to pacman sounds. Give us the rich audio and nice cutscenes. Use the 50GB available.. spoil us with it. If you want to whine about not cutting back to fit into 7GB, well - that is your problem.

[ApocalypseShadow]

1.that marv albert commentates for ALL 82 basketball games.

surely marv is more than capable of getting to every game on time to call it.

2.that a bustling city has only 5 different conversations spoken over and over mixed in with car sounds in sandbox games.

he forgets there are planes,birds,water,horns,siren s,screeching brakes,tree and bush rustling in the wind,animals,kids playing,doors closing,etc.

3.that music games can only have 50 songs instead of 250 songs.

you could have top 40 mixed in with rock,pop,rap,country,techno,cl assical,mixed in with oldies but "goodies."

4.that almost all cars sound the same in a racing game.

love playing a racing game where a porche sounds like a ferrari.or a dodge viper sounds like a lambo.

more sound and multiple sounds are only possible on bluray.dvd-9 can only do these things if it's not sanbox,not sports,not racing,not fps.so that leaves:

puzzle games and rpgs...................hahahah aahaahah

but even then you will hit limits.shame he can't see the truth.

..................mag lev super train...............

[zonetrooper5]

I really don't see why you people argue over Blu-Ray or DVD or HD-DVD, they are all the same thing, the DVD can support HD content but can't fit too much and CD's are still be used on the PC's actually for games.

Each of them are disc formats used to hold data, just understand that. If I have to change a disk then I will do so, I'm really not that lazy.

[gnothe1]

ok guys ask your self this!! would all that space be needed for audio is the games only contained the audio(languages) needed for that region!! before, all games had ONLY the audio for that region.an jpn game only had the audio for jpn. so on an so forth. so is this REALLY needed, NO!! but its nice to have because developers dont have to print different discs!!

[techie]

WHo knows. There's nothing in the quote about that - and that's all we have to go on.

[DarkArcani]

To understand what the developers go through with audio you have to understand audio (read 23). It's really a matter of the situation. Do some devs need the space. No. But when you make a game that has a varying amount of orcastrated theme music with lengthy dialog sequences with 7.1 you probably will need it.
Have you ever gone on a trip and wished you had a little more suitcase room to bring some more stuff along? I know i have.
Ninja Theory has that really big suitcase. And for their next game they want a bigger one.

Edit: Dmn Deep, all in my grill today, lol.

[Bathyj]

Ps3 being region free for games, as well as games themselves becoming more and more region free (XB too) having multiple languages is a good feauture to have.

But if you think thats the only posibble benifit you dont have very much imagination.

[Lumbo]

Regarding multiple audio languages being the reason for the audio size:

Thats sadly not true, cause the EU releases have mostly been multilanguage releases. Thats also the main reason EU releases are always delayed. Additionally using a single disk for most regions massively reduces manufacturing costs, as only a single glasmaster is needed instead of a bunch of them. Less disk versions around = less cost in production = less risk of overstocking a region.

[Foliage]

Some people are so blinded by their fanboyism that they wouldn't know common sense if it was given to them. If any Dev. was given the choice to choose between having more space to work with, or less space to work with, I'm sure every dev. would take the most space they could get.

Even if you want a game as small as those found on the 360, you would have the choice to leave mostly everything uncompressed. This is the High Definition era, isn't it? Stuff like that matters.

[Shaka2K6]

MGS4 will be on a dual layer Blu-ray disk, its obvious by now Blu-ray is needed for advance real next gen. games like this and MGS4, feel sorry for some folks that will have to be stuck playing weak downgraded games thanks to last gen. dvd.

[Azures]

I predict Final Fantasy XIII on a Dual-Layer BD, perhaps 2.

We know how SE values production and I'm sure they're going to abuse uncompressed audio and video as much as they can :)

[DJ]

the triple and quad-layer Blu-ray discs are going to be made available..

[Mike134nl]

Wonder how much play time this game will have

[DJ]

it's around 10~12 hours.

[felidae]

how can MGS4 come to the 360 if it's dual layer?

multiple disks?

compressed?

never?

[Azures]

Never seems about right. Especially given how committed Kojima is to having it only release on ps3. And to all those people who say "Oh the president of Konami can do w/e he wants with the game", true, but do you think he wants to piss off his most valued employee? Thats like if Nintendo started to take a crap on Miyamoto and what he stands for.

[Russbomb]

Never?

It probably will come to the 360, on multiple disks if it does though.

Its like GTA3 It was exclusive to the ps2 and later went to the xbox.

[Xbox is the BEST]

Hope they fix the framrate problems it's not as bad as say NBA 2K7 or Madden but a supercomputer (PS3) with 120fps 4-D graphics should never have framerate problems not when it cost that much. The truth hurts

[Azures]

Those are developer issues, not PS3 hardware issues.

Hell I'm sure PS9 will be hard to develop for too, but it will be virtual reality!

[Demon1980]

wow, why do you even post on forums trying to sound intelligent? You sound so retarded, it is up to the developers to make Madden 60 fps and other games it is not the PS3 limitations.

[pilotpistolpete]

Has anyone realized that the number of disks needed go up exponentially?

The more "core" data that must be tranfered between disks will continue to grow in size the less space for new material can be added.

example: ( and please, I am making up these figures to make my point)
Say Naruto's poygons to make her up take roughly 1 Gig, this data must always be on every disk, so you have 1 gig less to store new data. Now imagine if her polygon count went up to 2 gigs...3 gigs. Less and less new data can be put on a second disk. So a 20 gig game that has 5 gigs of core data will take up 4 or 5 disks, not 2 or 3.

Eventually, adding up all this "core" data can leave devs in quite a predicament. What if some day you need 8 or 9 gigs? You can no longer effectively have multiple disks.

[bootsielon]

But I partially disagree.

I'd say perfection would be reached with infinite polygons and pixels, but not only computers don't have infinite resources (duh), but even the universe doesn't have infinite sub-atomic particles (and therefore, you could say we have less than infinite polygon and pixel precision, if you were to draw an analogy).

Even if we were infinitely precise, and even if we had infinite computing resources... assuming our eyes are limited (which they are), there's gonna be a point where you won't need more polygons, just like we won't need more resolution, since our eyes won't notice it. There's also gonna be a point where everything will be dynamically generated with sheer detail, so the amount of space needed for games will not grow as fast as it is doing now.

But until all that happens, which isn't far away (like 30 years or so), the amount of detail will keep growing, so yes, we're gonna need more storage space. There are many alternatives, optical storage still has plenty of potential, it could reach up to 5 terabytes or so. Atomic colossal storage could store up to 1.6 petabytes, or so they say. So yes, there's plenty of time left for storage innovation, and for prices to reach critical mass. We're talking here about 5-6 more console generations, so that'll surely be enough to reach the polygon, audio, and pixel detail we want to reach (perhaps something like Ultra Hi-Vision, which is a 4320p screen with a 2.4:1 ratio with 32.5 Surround Sound; it was made by NHK, japan's national TV).

An analogy could be drawn on the amount of sound channels we could use, and how limited our ears are. Same with olfatory, tactile and gustative nerves when games utilize our noses, mouths and skin to interact. Same thing with holograms and virtual reality. Take in mind that internet will partially store all that in the future, and that we will also be aided by local HDD flash storage.

[pilotpistolpete]

But I was just using polygons as an example. You can add environment noise, weapon details, basic enemies, even the programing that holds everything together. If you add up everything that you need to transfer to every disk, its not that far a reach to say that a dvd9 won't hold all that data, plus enough new material that wont make you go through half a dozen disks.

[TheExecutive]

it should no longer be an argument, but it is. In every generation more disk space was used, it was a natural progression. Systems that didnt use larger disc spaces didnt succeed. By the end of every generation of consoles EVERYONE is glad that the console had more space.

In 2 years its going to be impossible to do some things on dvd-9. Well, it wont be impossible but it will be hard to make it to the standard of HD gaming (by then HD will be standard and people will wake up to HD). Lets face it, its needed this generation, maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow but by the end of this generation it is definitely going to be needed.

This is one of the many reasons why I think the xbox720 will be announced in late 2008 and be available two years from now. Xmas '09, maybe '10 at the latest. You see there is a gap between last gen gamers and "next-gen" gamers: most havent came over to next-gen yet. They wont until next xmas. By that time the 360 will be nearing the end of its lifespan while the ps3 will just be begining its lifespan... well we all know what will happen from there

anyway, i kinda got off on a rant there... thats my two cents, keep it.

[Bathyj]

I'll say one thing, (maybe a couple) developers making PS3 games (I'm talking the REAL 1st party PS3 games) are not exclusive to Sony and can go where ever they want. Lets see if they want to go back to DVD when all is said and done.

Besides, wasn't this game originally for X360 exclusively until they decided they'd rather make it a next gen game and only Cell and BR could allow that?

Someone wanna help me out there?

[ThaGeNeCySt]

it was planned for the original xbox and for whatever reason.. MS decided to can the game and let ninja theory go

[HeartlesskizZ]

Is to funny looking at this going like we dont need mp3 we got cd player. people will eventually move on and upgrade themselves with new tech like it or not.

[Raptors]

The one thing that concerns me is the cost of using a dual layer BR disc. Does anyone have any idea roughly how much one costs or even just a ballpark figure?

[PS360PCROCKS]

Well with all due respect anyone making the "Well the games aren't any longer so who cares" that's a pretty ignorant thing to say. Just because their is more space doesn't mean they will be longer. You all forget it takes time and money to dev a game. Yes while the space allows them the ability to make the game longer, maybe their resources and money doesn't? You will see some very long games for the PS3 (FF) just like you will for the 360 (Mass effect) The point is that extra space doesn't hurt any developers. So anyone trying to downplay the fact that the BR ability in the PS3 is just a "throw-in" should re-evaluate that thought process. Yes it helps Sony get their movie format going, but it also does help with games. No matter what you say, these guys are artists and their making their visions come to life, and if something like a disc is hindering that process than frankly that sucks for them and for us as gamers. I'm sorry I love my 360 tons, but if I could of had it a year later with better reliability, HDMI, and a BR/HD-DVD player I would have simply waited. My PS2 and xbox were still fun in late 2005 going into 2006.

[Salvadore]

Developers already going dual layer... now am I worried.

[JokesOnYou]

how convenient= before we found out that HS was 10-12 hrs long, sony kids would tell us that 360 games were short because of DVD9, now that BD hasnt translated to bigger games as far as length of gameplay is concerned shown no advantage for all its space advantage sony claimed it would be, now of course its because ps3 games need 10g of audio= lmfao, so hold on wait ps3 games are crippled by the pos gpu so they might not look or play better than 360 games but they sure will sound better on the $1500 audio setup that I dont have= sony kids once again grasping and praying, I said before that poo-ray space is good, nice to have but NOT neccessary and news like this only prove me right= devs are not going to double their dev time to 4 or 5+ yrs for sony exclusives and spend double the money and resources to make these massive 30-40 hr games and still charge you the standard next gen game prices, but of course they will fill up those bd's with something and tell you "Wow look how much space we used"= 10-12 hr game that doesnt look better than Sigma or the top quality stuff on 360 but it sure does sound better on the audio system that 5% of you actually have with 7.1 lmfao next sony kids will be on n4g ranting about how good HS sounded saying "damm you could tell it sounded much better than that compressed stuff in 5.1 or whatever blah blah blah", but no they wont mention the repetitive button mashing it looks to be. You all attacked Bloodmask but say what you want he made alot of good points, and to answer stupid questions like "why not use CD's?"= no shiii DVD is the standard and is doing pretty well at delivering kick@ss games= BD not neccessary YET or maybe never but most likely when it is the next xbox will be here, until then we will just have to settle for great games on DVD or maybe great games on 2, 3 DVD's= why would micro need either format NOW vs all the negative risks and the higher price that comes with it.= ooooh you kids are good at asking questions but not answering them, ha ha yeah disagree but thats all you sony kids can do, avoiding logic and believing anything sony tells you seems to be common among sony kids=

JOY

[Bathyj]

Of course for you, "Next Generation" will be the time for you for consoles to get a better disc format. Not now, when they are released and are establishing themselves and you have a chance to shape the market and affect the outcome. We should wait simply because M$ dont want to support a Sony format. See who wins and then just follow the leader, M$ style. Sounds like the safe idea except your wasting 5 years and lowering the glass ceiling. Dont you realize Xbox could do more than it can now if every machine had a HD and a bigger disc format. Can you admit that? Can you?

If you cant then you're not worth talking to because thats like someone denying and elephant is stronger than a mouse. Its not a matter of debate of clever arguments. Its a fact an cant be disputed. And what if HDDVD does die, and next gen M$ is desperate for bigger disc format. Are they going to use the dead HDDVD? Or switch to PR? And what if Sony simply says "No". We dont want BR in your device. Gee I hope you guys like compression as much as you say you do. You might be stuck with it forever.

A couple more things you seem to be confused on. A bigger game, doesn't neccessarily mean Longer playtime. It seems thats all you can think of but you're wrong. It might mean, a bigger area to play in. More characters on screen. Better AI. More particle effects. Just basically more and better everything.

PS3 games, generally have more action going on at once. Resistance isn't as pretty to look at as Gears but there are tons more things going on which help make it just as impressive. It doesn't have the textures, but its got the action in spades. No one whos played both for any amount of time could disagree with this.

Now I'm not going to get into a Resistance VS Gears thing here, thats not my point, I'm just saying theres different ways to measure how "big" a game is. (Incidently Rfom is longer than Gears, but thats beside the point.) Now I'm not pretending all PS3 games are there yet or that they dominate Xbox games, but should devs stop trying, and using as many tools as they can get at their disposal because you're afraid of a new Disc? A disc by the way which doesn't cost you any extra, as lots of benefits and has HD movies ONLY IF YOU WANT THEM.

Now how can that be bad?

Tell me this.
If this gen we needed, bigger CPU's, bigger GPU's more RAM, more bandwidth, bigger this, quicker that, why not more storage? Why hamstring not just Xbox, but this generation?

And if DVD is still ok now, will they use it next gen? and if not why not? Whats going to change between now and then that will necessitate it but does matter now?

I've got some advice that Xbox fans should relate to. Jump in.

If it wasn't (partly) made by Sony M$ would have done it themselves.

[JokesOnYou]

well first off sony kid why are you obssessed with my age? are the things that I see anymore or less revelant if I'm 15 or 50? trust me sony kid Im older than you think, I just choose to post the way I do because sony kids deserve it, second YES I do agree about the HDD and I have said before that the Core holds devs back that want to utilize unlike you I can admit micro has made mistakes but I think micro will eventually make it very cheap and allow devs to utilize it much more in the future, but most Core owners who care already upgrade when they can anyway so and with the core being the least popular sku from the start and many of them upgrading anyway its a very small percent affected anyway and I doubt those few owners care too much about it mostly they want to play games like madden on next gen console for as little as possible. now onto your other cries for attention= BD like I said space is good but its NOT neccessary= why do you ask redundant questions?= I already said the reason micro went with DVD NOW is because its proven and sufficient for GAMING= and what makes your arguement even weaker is right now games on DVD9 are kicking the shiii out of sonys exclusives on poo-ray= Lair was touted as NOT being able to be done on 360=DVD9 OK but lets say thats true but I would say "So what?" for all its huge 30 mile sky its still looks and plays mediocore= again poo-ray proves no advantage in gaming, other than we can make it bigger= end result is just and avg game. how can you argue with the end result, oh but but wait wait wait until____ again micro didnt use HD DVD or BD as a gaming medium because it wasnt worth the added cost to the console or the risk of either one not becoming the standard and with games like ME it looks like we won't need more than 1 disc for 90% of the games in the next couple of yrs, so why put it in with so much risk vs reward? you say its not taking risk or waiting following sony, give me a break sony is a follower BD isnt some innovation created for gaming is trojan horse for movies, so lets at least be honest here, its yet to prove any significance for gaming and I dont see how it really will because as I said before devs are not going to give you this 30-40 hr game= it takes too long and too much money, so your right they will tout other things but nothing that cant be recreated on DVD9 and then consider compression tech gets better and better, talented devs adapt, great games have been made and many more are on the way= Bioshock is one helluva game, Wow! asking me if its good for next gen and not now is silly thats the whole point its NOT neccessary now, its like buying a car with some extra option thats nice to have but not one thats really neccessary= hell if it wasnt included you probably wouldnt even notice it was missing, then you say why was it neccessary to include a bigger CPU and GPU is so foolish and redundant since obviously the answer is because those things ARE NEEDED to run next gen games (AI graphics etc) but the difference is BD is NOT NEEDED, hold on I'll break it down so you can understand it better= without a next gen CPU/GPU the consoles would NOT be capable of doing HD next gen games, however the storage medium has nothing to do with what the spec's the consoles are capable of rendering= its just a storage device nothing more= you got it now rookie=

JOY

[Mandangoof]

GI: Is Metal Gear Solid 4 still exclusive? Is that solidified and will never appear on the Xbox 360?

Harrison: Yes. We said it was an exclusive title.

http://www.gameinformer.com...

(By the way, so did Kojima, Konami and other Sony execs - no ifs or buts. Kojima also made it perfectly clear that it was ONLY possible on PS3.)
(Some point to MGonline as their last hope for a 360 MGS - no, it's the same engine as MGS4 - i.e. only possible on PS3, stated exclusive.)

Back on track, I hope their next game is on one of those 200GB 6 layer BDs. The more space the better.

Xbot: Blah-blah-majority don't have setup- blah blah *cries*
Me: I have the setup, what do I care if other people can't enjoy top of the line quality, they can still enjoy superior quality to any other platform's title.

[ta1snake]

Oh, man. Games nowaday. I means good thing^^.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Lets looks at Mass Effect for its visual quality it beats HS hands down, then lets look at how big Mass Effect is in terms of gameplay it again beats HS hands down.

Now lets look at all the content Mass Effect has again it beats HS hands down.

Looks like the usual sloppy and useless developers - give them enough space and they will make a mess of it all.

To me its too many ingredients spoiling the brew.

I bet this game on a 25gb disc will take around 10mins to load, 1hr to install and a 50gb disc damn a 30mins load time at least.

Current blu-ray games even with the game partially or all of installed like Oblivion still takes time to LOAD.

HS might be a great game but 10gb of audio? Oh please.

[midgard229]

mass affect and HS are way different games. second, MA is no where as cinematic as HS, HS has so many scenes, voice overs (High quality voice overs at that) motion capture animations and so on. it would make sense that it would take so much space. why u think blue dragon took up 3 dvds??? because so much dailoge and so many scenes

unlike a game like mass effect where there are no choreographed scenes, just voices, and most likley not many scenes either.

HS has the best emotions ever, and even uses face motion capture, Mass effect doesnt, their lips move just enough to show they are talking.

mass effects gameplay looks ok, but i bet u never played HS, and i have, HS is an amazing game to play.

oblivion had 0 scenes only dailoe, although it had a huge world the story wasn't cinimatic at all

content. HS has so much it filled the disk, u havent even scene what extra's are in it so why say that mass effect has more.

the gameplay in HS is way more complicated than shoot shoot. not saying mass effect isn't deep, but it doesnt have a huge move set, where as HS does

and omg, mass effects graphics r not better, the char design is boring and the main character has glass eyes and i like how his hair looks like elephant skin lol http://media.xbox360.ign.co... (here for elephant skin hair

actually why is HS being compared to Mass effect? one is a shooter, one is an action game??? shooters take no space anyway

but seriously, both games will be good so yeah lol

[SuperSaiyan4]

Over cinematic movies and all that useless audio.

Bioshock = 20hrs of awesome gameplay.

HS = 12hrs of gameplay.

You work it out.

Gameplay > useless cr@p

[doublertist]

wow you are comparing 2 completely different genres and please show me some facts that mass effect will have over 50 hours of gameplay...wut kind of storyline can you fit onto a game like that...50 hours of gameplay must be 50 hours on the same level... NO CGI videos, NO storyline, NO menu? come on seriously how much can you really enjoy a game which can only be put on a dvd....and if you say, "well it can be put on multiple dvds" well still, in order to get 50 hours of gameplay you would have to have 8+ dvds, and on top of that, since its supposed to be so much better than gears of war... gears only provided about 5-6 hours of game + videos on ONE(1) DVD

HS = GoW ripoff?

only thing for sure is supersaiyan4 = noob = xbot fanboy

and you = ownd by me!!!

[Goshyujin_Sama]

Haha, last I checked Mass Effect, Bioshock, and HS were not out yet and you were just some noob fan-boy who thinks he knows it all. Seriously its one thing to make predictions and comments about games soon to come but it another thing to make noob a$$ uneducated hastely comments that hold absolutely no validity. Dont make me go through a long list of xbox/360 titles that were fun but took 4-12hrs to beat(halo 1/2, gears, fable, kameo just to name a few.) and then stack them up agains PS2/Nintendo games that took much much longer to beat (any final fantasy, MGS 2/3, Kindom hearts, any Zleda title ect.). Seriously saying a game is crap b4 it comes out is the noobest thing you can do and it deffinitely marks you as a noob troll fan-boy who has nothing better to do than bad mouth anything sony. Seriously wait to play the game b4 you determine wheather or not its good. Oh but since ur a fan-boy you prolly only have two systems, xbox and 360, so you will never really have a valid opinion because you will never be able to play bioshock for a few hrs and then pop in HS for a few more, cuz your just a noob. I how ever own all the next gen consols and when these games come out, I will let you know how they are, haha! Also, what kind of noob compares HS and action adventure to Bioshock, a FPS?

[EvilChicken]

I played the HS Demo and even though is was way to short, I was amazed about how great everything looked and feeled during that 5 mins of play. For thoughs 360 nuts that haven't played it, think of it as this.

It's better than you think!

To take up the entire Blu-ray disk space on a single layer is just a way of saying that PS3 games in the future will be big and have huge maps and amazing detail after everything is compressed to a level of the 360's games now. But doing it now with no compression is a slap in the face for DVD9 and 360, just shows that Sony is one step ahead of everyone else...again.

[SuperSaiyan4]

I played the demo since I have a PS3 and the graphics weren't that great nor was the audio that great.

And for any developer to say they might have needed 50gb of space oh dear imo they are the worst developer ever UNLESS they can put soo much gameplay into the game with soo much content that its a truely unbelieveable experience.

HS is just a GoW rip off nothing more.

I played the game and well it was just an average game at best nothing special.

Now looking at the lineup of games on the 360 WOW all on DVD - Blue Dragon needs 3 discs because it has a lot of CGI movies.

If you compare the 50hrs or so of gameplay of Mass Effect to the pathetic 12hrs of HS that is a very poor use of space.

[cr33ping_death]

so youre comparing an RPG to an action adventure game? well more like a shooter RPG. cause we all know MSa loves them shooters. which is why im looking forward to the upcoming titles from SONY, variety is they key...one which apparently MS doesnt have. i mainly play GEARS and GUITAR HERO on my 360.....but i want something else other than shooters. if HEAVENLY SWORD is a "rip off" of GOD OF WAR. then isnt BIO SCHOCK a rip off of the CONDEMNED? my bro bought the CONDEMNED and it looks much like BIO SHOCK....of course BIO SHOCK looks better but same deal.

[sheng long]

anyone who is pro compression is an idiot, plain and simple.
Uncompressed Audio is ALWAYS better than compressed.