Dev on Assetto Corsa PS4/Xbox One: PS4 version required graphics engine rewrite

Assetto Corsa will be debuting this coming summer on PS4 and Xbox One, and developer Kunos Simulazioni is hard at work on bringing the racer to current-gen systems.

[joeorc]

Of course, as expected..Game engine made 1st for DirectX Api..and not for Sony's Graphics Api..for their console's.

What else is new.

[Aenea]

It goes against what a lot of people (who don't know anything about programming) seem to believe. How many times I've heard "PS4 and PCs have the same architecture now, porting is easy!" it's crazy.

[Dee_91]

funny, i've heard "PS4 and PCs have the similar architecture now, porting will be easier!" in comparisons to last gen.. seems we hear what we want to hear.

I have faith in KS. I had the earlier builds on pc and boy they have come a long with refining and optimization since.

[babadivad]

Well you can create Open GL games on PC. Same as the PS4 uses.

[JackBNimble]

But isn't that what the devs have been telling us?

[NeoGamer232]

Architecture is in many forms.

From a console perspective there is the physical hardware architecture and then there is the architecture of the operating system and the programming environment.

I think when people say PS4 is similar to PC architecture they are talking hardware. But, when it comes to the OS and programming environment most game developers start with Windows and DirectX. Rather then with other OSes and programming environments.

[SolidStoner]

well talking about development about games this comes to my mind!
This game is in development for about 5+ years or even more (released early in 2013)... and this is how it works for simulation games! you make it and then refine and update it constantly... like any sim does, like GT or other titles on PC... definitely not forza because its a yearly title GT is made since 1998 for example, and forza in 2005, making already more games than anything.. soon will be 7 (not to mention open world arcade crap, dont remember its name, shift, shizzle, wizle, lets call it NFS!).. you see what im on about.. its a Ridge racers really.. comming out every year.. milking it out as much as they can, because fan base is very small (because its an exclusive) and MS needs more money..

Assetto Corsa does it right, they finish and polish the game for many years now.... they got my attention and I will buy the game on a console (hope it will be without those PC bugs!) cant wait to try it out again with my T300!

[Aenea]

@babadivad
Nope, the PS4 is not using OpenGL, that's a misconception many people seem to have as well, they use their own APIs...

@Jack
Yes, it's become simpler because the PS4 uses just CPU cores and multithreading can then be approached the same way as on the other platforms while on the PS3 there was only one core and if you wanted to process stuff outside of that one you had to use those hard to code for SPUs. And since the CPU is now also x86 for all the target platforms, CPU optimisations can be used on all of them as well.
But the graphics APIs are different so a game engine needs to be ported to use the different API, the game code though (that uses the game engine) should be rather easy.
Optimisations to make a game run smoothly on one particular platform can be done in both, though I suspect that most of that is still going to have to be done in the game engine.

[ZeroX9876]

Easier to develop for would be the appropriate saying. There's always a barrier from platform to platform, but I think Sony closed the gap a bit by switching to x86.

[OpenGL]

The PS4 uses two custom graphics APIs known as GMN and GMNX.

[AuToFiRE]

@babadivad No.And OpenGL is outdated anyway, PC now has Vulkan

[jairusmonillas]

No one asked for your game though so it's like it matters. lol

[Aenea]

The only games that are actually asked for are sequels, so if devs wouldn't make games people aren't asking for we would not get new IPs ever!

[tee_bag242]

Speak for yourself, 15 people seem to agree that sentiment so far.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@jairusmonillas nobody asked for your opinion either and yet there it is. I would argue most of the best games over time have been games that "nobody asked for". They just came out and we embraced when they were good.

[dcbronco]

I really have a hard time believing anything these developers say nowadays. The architectures aren't that different. The Microsoft APU might be more similar to Intel CPUs since I believe they are using edram in their design now. But I haven't look at it much. Just like I never believe a PC/PS4 developers claims of small teams I don't buy into this either until I know what Intel is doing.

[Aenea]

You are totally forgetting that the PS4 is using Sony's own APIs to access the GPU and the OS functions while Windows and Xbox use DirectX and Windows APIs.

That it's the same architecture makes it easier in other areas like writing assembly code to optimise routines or not having to worry about too many differences in the C++ compilers and their optimisations. Also since the PS3 didn't have regular multiple cores (they had one and several of those hard to code for SPUs) it was difficult to even port over the C++ code, since now PCs, the Xbox One and the PS4 use x86 cores multithreading stuff is easily ported as well.

[InTheZoneAC]

I bought project cars day 1, couldn't even control the throttle to not spin out even with wheels straight, warm tires, and gentle throttle. Never in any real car or racing game have I ever had such a problem maintaining a straight line or accelerating.

I'll pass on this game and probably pass on GT Sport as well, waiting for GT7.

[Vedo]

Assetto Corsa is NOTHING like pCars. Pcars is an arcade compared to AC. Realistic does not mean hard, try AC and you'll realise this.

[Deadpooled]

If there's a "controller friendly" control system but who are separated from the wheel users online etc and with splitscreen for family/friends who don't like using the superior wheel controls, this would be a day 1 buy.

Not many options otherwise on ps4, driveclub has no splitscreen which for me is a deal breaker despite looking fantastic, and project cars and f1 2015 are not controller friendly, and not atm interested in GT sport unless I see a great improvement from gt6.

[XboxInnovation]

Why is this because they had to work around the weaker hardware structure in PS4?

[joeorc]

Its like this if your game is being made with DirectX what ever version..

Its going to be the basis of the performance unless you are making your game with Sony's

GNMX in mind. Than its reverse. The performance basis will not be based on DirectX.

Common sense people!

Example:

PS4 IS SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER THAN XBOX ONE EVEN WITH DIRECTX 12, SAYS STARDOCK CEO

https://mobile.twitter.com/...

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

Remember its not just about Raw Performance power, Game theory, and design, the developers & teams skill, the experience they have with the system, the money investment into the project, and Time..team size. Many factors.

If a developer has been coding for PC with DirectX as their main Graphics Api..if their game Engine is based on Using said DirectX why would people expect the PS4's performance to be up to par with that outright unless you redesign the Engine or graphics Api around the PS4?

Its the same in reverse why would you expect the Xbox one in performance to match the PS4 performance if the game engine and Graphics Api was built around the GNMX & PS4 Hardware?

You wouldn't I would imagine.
The hardware has in both machines performance indexes.

The Graphics Api and wrapper level can show what your team with skill can do with the hardware at hand. Through Time & money , team size , game theory & design ,Experience with said hardware. Custom designs in software to take advantage of said hardware.
Many factors go into making games.

Again as an Example:

However, CEO Stewart Gilray spoke with Worlds Factory to clear up those statements, saying...
“Actually that is NOT what he said. I spoke to Lorne afterwards and what he meant when speaking to that guy was that budgets, schedules and perceivable differences would narrow, NOT that the Xbox One performance is improving to align with PS4, that is just physically impossible. The PS4 has MORE COMPUTE units, and faster memory and a whole bunch of things, that would make that physically impossible to happen.”

Now the key point is if you have the Hardware, that does not mean your performance can be taken advantage of unless your Tools, Middleware, game Engine, Api, game design & theory..developer team and size and experience with the hardware and tools line up!

The hardware can be as powerful as it can be, but unless the team designs the game theory, and have tools and middleware and experience and investment capital and time..it would not matter.

Its just that Simple.

Of course I get a disagreement.. LOL

Again the PS4 does not use OpenGL

The PS4 OS is a fork of FreeBSD 9
And use's

[The PlayStation 4 features two graphics APIs, a low level API named GNM and a high level API named GNMX. Most people start with the GNMX API which wraps around GNM and manages the more esoteric GPU details in a way that's a lot more familiar if users are used to platforms like Direct3D 11.]

Has its own shader language

[Another key area of the game is its programmable pixel shaders. Sony's own PlayStation Shader Language (PSSL) was introduced on the PlayStation 4.]

[trainsgofast]

Now you guys are starting to get it. Xbox one and Windows Tian is one platform therefore minimum work is needed to port games to and from them PS for is the outlier, so what you end up with is this situation where more time is spent on getting the PS for up and running than running the cold on Xbox one or PC that's the essence of why Microsoft went with DX 12 model. And I have to be a little bit of a ass but what PC do you know has its main RAM as GDDR5 so that should have told you they were never the same.

[joeorc]

@trainsgofast20m ago
[Now you guys are starting to get it. Xbox one and Windows Tian is one platform therefore minimum work is needed to port games to and from them PS for is the outlier, so what you end up with is this situation where more time is spent on getting the PS for up and running than running the cold on Xbox one or PC that's the essence of why Microsoft went with DX 12 model. And I have to be a little bit of a ass but what PC do you know has its main RAM as GDDR5 so that should have told you they were never the same]

As I also pointed out, what you pointed out well. Its really not going to matter, the reason being is unlike Microsoft's vision of one compute entertainment platform under windows OS , under DirectX graphics Api, indivisible, for Microsoft for All, just does not Apply in this situation because, Microsoft's platform is not the largest anymore ..it may be in the PC market, but in the Console market its not.

Example if the idea , you are thinking of well they will just make every game for DirectX 1st and Playstation now will get the afterthought development platform treatment, well that may work in the PC market, but this is the console market. And the one code = to all platforms is not just in the domain of Microsoft's Windows OS and Direct X Api. Now with Valve using Linux for steam and it use's Vulkan,
Googles Android OS and it also using Vulkan Graphics Api. And Sony with FreeBSD which can Also use Vulkan, Samsung & Amazon topset box's and smart TV's Also using Vulkan..it is

Vulkan graphics Api and not DirectX that has the Advantage in the console market. And the largest 3rd party Game engines all support Vulkan as well as DirectX, so its no longer the case of DirectX graphics Api being the only real game in town.

But take note since PC can Also use Vulkan its not like Microsoft is being left out. Of the Mix for developers porting to PC & Xbox windows 10 platforms..hell even Windows 10 has Linux Ubuntu Bash command line Now included into windows 10

[Fluke_Skywalker]

Never played it on PC but it looks decent. Tell you what though, the folks over at Polyphony could be doing with playing it to learn something about engine noises! Big thumbs up for sound.

[b1nary_B0SS]

These 2 partial quotes,

“But yes it was difficult. PS4 required a total rewrite of the graphics engine because the way you need to work on the console is totally different,"

and,

“The Xbox One is much more similar to the PC because you can take advantage of the fact that they share more technologies...”

from Stefano Casillo read very familiar. Where have I read something similar to this before?... Ahhh yes, right here: http://www.engadget.com/200...

Shaun Himmerick (executive producer for Wheelman) was quoted as saying of the PS3 and XB360,

"The politically incorrect answer is that the PS3 is a huge pain in the ass. Anyone making a game, if you're going to make it for both, just lead on the PS3 because if it works on the PS3, it'll work on 360."

"We had to play catch up on the PS3 because of the memory constraints and how it renders -- how it processes is just different. And it's harder on the PS3," Himmerick continued. "The Xbox is just like a dumb PC, which is great because it's easier to build a game on a PC."

I suspect there will be more complaints like Casillo’s coming from other devs in the future, as they are forced to reckon with the PS4’s true nature.

Based Kutaragi-san.