Investigating Xbox One's DX12 Impacts & Async Support, Compared With PS4

"Armed with this information, we can safely say, that gamers should not expect any significant performance upgrades with the arrival of the DirectX 12 update.
Sony PS4 is inherently more powerful than the Xbox One in terms of gaming performance – and no amount of optimization or software updates can change this fact."

[wesjanson99]

It should help to make even complex games closer to 60FPS at higher resolutions though.

[kaiserfranz]

Maybe. Or maybe they will just add more graphic effects and such things

[ninsigma]

Yeah I don't think dx12 will be used too much (could be wrong) to hit that magical 1080p 60fps combo. It will more than likely be used to add more to games that couldn't be added before. Making models smoother, more particle affects, increase of objects on screen, improved A.I etc.

[Mystogan]

I prefer graphic effects over some peas.

[APexGamer45]

This is the DEFINITE confirmation that DX12 wont do much for X1. X1 already has draw call, low level API and Async compute. Like MS dev already have said "giving what console has to PC"

That is not to say that X1 wont improve through out its lifecycle. It just means DX12 hype dont apply to X1.

Funny thing about Async Compute is that it requires Async Compute Engines (or ACE).

Xbox One has only 2 ACE.
PS4 has whopping 8 ACE.

So if X1 was developed for DX12, what gives with 2 Ace?

As far as Async Compute goes, it is not DX12 exclusive feature...MS didnt even start/invent it. Mantle did.

Sony has been already testing Async compute on Infamous:SS with particles. If Async Compute really becomes big as some say, then it is huge deal for PS4. Not so much for X1.

Again, you need those Async compute engine to run Async Computes....lol

[fr0sty]

PS4 is an ASYNC compute beast. That is why they added in the 50% more compute cores and 6 extra ACE's, enabling 48 more compute queues than Xbox One with its 16. Mark Cerny knew compute was going to be what sealed the deal, since the GPU was average grade and the CPU wasn't anything to write home about. Lets see how that bet pays off...

[alabtrosMyster]

The problem is that with fewer acesand processingcores than the ps4 there is both less possibilities of having free compute processors and available queues to put tasks in them.

[AizenSosuke]

Yeah but maybe not let's find out before judging please ppl:)

[NeckBeardBSMTDweller]

Are you that guy who had like 5 accounts named after Naruto Characters that used to argue with himself?

[Eonjay]

Well, there is Fable Legends which everyone ignores. Thats DX12 in the flesh. So looking at that title can give us an idea of what to expect. Plus being a Microsoft title, you can be sure that they are using it to its current potential.

[frostypants]

According to the article, it may not. His argument is that the flavor of DX11 that the Xbone is running already has the significant DX12 features that are bringing the big upgrades to the PC side. I.E., it's not bringing much new to the table that the Xbone doesn't already have.

I'm not sure how accurate he is, but that's his claim.

[deadpoolio316]

You mean exactly what Phil Spencer/MS employees and EVERYONE with half a brain and an actual knowledge of computers has been saying for months...

YES the Xbox will see SOME small benefits from DX12, nothing massive, nothing mind blowing. The major benefits of DX will will ONLY be noticeable on PC...People love to talk like DX12 is going to be this mind blowing experience for Xbox One and ITS NOT, anyone with a minimal knowledge of computers knows that a lot of people are just setting themselves up for failure and sadness....

[TheCommentator]

It's not a matter of IF the features are in DX11 yet, it's a matter of how long they've been there for devs to use. I suspect some, perhaps even a majority, of these features are being used in this year's 1st party line up. Conversely, game engines need to be built from the ground up for DX12 for all of these features to be used together properly. In all, the author's assumptions are fairly accurate, but are based on rather incomplete data regarding the behaviour of all of the unique processing elements the XB1 contains.

[rainslacker]

Those features have been there to use on the X1 SDK since before the console launched. Most of them anyways. The ones that weren't, aren't going to have a major impact on performance on the cores of the APU, but do have some better facilitation of the bus and memory management, which will show some gains in some applications depending on how the devs set up their routines. Like most things involving programming, the answer is always, it depends.

Many of these features were also used last gen on the 360 DX variant SDK, which the X1 was using early on, albeit modified for X1 specific hardware. Same way it happens for most consoles every gen to be honest. The new DX12 variant started rolling out to devs to use on a large scale in February of this year, and had some limited release to some engine makers and XBox studios before that.

I'd imagine by the holiday of next year is when DX12 will be the defacto standard on the X1, as that will allot enough time to make the changes to code, or start fresh using the new SDK. This holiday, most of it will be things that could get implemented in the few months between February and now, as any holiday release would have been code locked for optimization this past summer. We'll likely see some of the new features trickle in over the course of next year though.

I do believe that many people that go on about the power of DX12 in regards to consoles, don't really realize just how close DX12 is to the current API's that are being used on consoles. The whole idea of DX12/Mantle was to open up these console only concepts to the standard PC, which was already hindered by software which couldn't take advantage of what the console does well. Up until DX12/Mantle, Graphics on a PC were mostly determined by brute force, instead of taking advantage of the hardware capabilities...which is what the consoles have been doing for many generations now.

[AndrewLB]

Why do you fanboys keep lying about what Phil Spencer has said?

https://youtu.be/pZpB7JeFmR...

[butchertroll]

PS4 has 50% more GPGPU capabilities than Xbone :

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

http://www.worldsfactory.ne...

[OpenGL]

In some instances it could be more than 50% given it has 8 ACEs while xbox One only has 2.

[slasaru01]

>>> OpenGL
You forget it's not a direct comparison one to one when talking about capabilities. When MS engineers had a chance to plan and increase ACE number pre production, they decided to go with overclocking because it brings the same effect cheaper. You can find that interview easily. In theory, they can overclock even more, the cooling is sufficient. So yes, there is some more GPU capability but not 50% absolutely.

[assdan]

Read the full editorial. Gains that we'd see from dx12 on PC have already been implemented in the xbox one's version of Dx11. The means that performance gains will be nil where the xbox one is concerned. It seems that any benefit will be a more streamlined process for devs, which could possible lead to slightly better performance due to ease of use.

[memots]

suddenly 1080p matters

[Chucky2003]

I guess you didn't read the article and just made a comment on what you wish to happen.

"we can safely say, that (Xbox One) gamers should not expect any significant performance upgrades (where significant is defined as the Xbox being able to run games at higher resolutions than now) with the arrival of the DirectX 12 update "

And it seems what everyone is expecting form Dx12 on x1,PS4 already does that and it doesn't need any update for it

[Aurenar]

"In real life, this hardware difference might translate to the PS4 being able to run higher resolutions – but does this also automatically equate to better games? No. The answer to that, in its entirety, rests with the game developer"

Get Over It.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/xbox-on...

[Bigpappy]

Correct. People should focus on the games and stop trying to be engineers. Most people talking spec's, are in over their heads. Forza6 is the best performing game on console. Drive Club has the best effects. Your choice as to what you prefer. Developer decide what trade offs they want to make based on their vision. It is obvious that neither console could produce both at this time. Consensus is that Forza is the far better game and technical achievement. But this doesn't say Xbox is more capable. It just says that it is not some insignificant piece of hardware that PS4 can ignore. Tools, assets along with talent, can make the world of difference.

What qualifies this kid at WCCFTECH, to answer these API questions anyway? What games have he designed?

[BiggerBoss]

@mystogan. So what game does have the best effects, in your opinion?

[cd1]

"Forza6 is the best performing game on console" - pretty bold statement.

[ABizzel1]

@cd1

It's the truth for next gen consoles, in regards to 1080p @ 60fps. There isn't another racing game that does it outside of Forza 5 (which F6 trumps in every way), and Project Cars (which is 60fps unlocked).

Doesn't make it the best racer (although it arguably is IMO), but it's without question the best performing on console right now, unless you take 60fps out of the equation as best performing in which case DC, Need for Speed, and a few others enter the competition.

[snoopgg]

Forza 6 looks like a cartoon compared to Driveclub thats why it proforms that good. There are tradeoffs to be made. That being said, I don't believe its the best performing game on the console. Even thought its runs at 60fps, it looks terrible against Driveclub.

[rainslacker]

Funny you bring up the two, and for comparisons sake, it's a great way to compare because there are quantifiable measurements which can be compared.

But beyond all that, with both of them, they're going to be good games which are fun to play, and probably impress everyone with their graphics. I assume this is true for Forza 6 at least right now given the history of it, and I feel this is true for DC.

Both great games, well performing, beautiful games... and you don't need to know or understand the programming principals behind the game to enjoy it.

I guess one could disregard my analysis of F6 if they've played it an disagree though...I'm simply going off the history of the series.

[APexGamer45]

"Developer decide what trade offs "

here is the fact you do not want to admit.

With PS4 being superior hardware, devs have to make LESS trade off.

PS4 has HIGHER resolution AND better graphics BOTH.

While X1 has to lower resolution and post process to get game to run.

[Bigpappy]

@APexGamer45: Forza6 looks, performs and plays better than Project cars on the PS4. It also has double the performance of Drive Club with 24 car while doing calculations for 3D puddle, tire wear and collision damage.

There is nothing on PS4 that out performs Forza6. That is fact, no opinion.

[APexGamer45]

@Bigpappy

Uhh. Are you now trying to deny power discrepancy?

Yes. DriveClub runs 30fps. Are you not the one who says its up to dev to make that trade off? Yes. Instead of going 60 fps and weaker graphics and effects. DriveClub chose better graphics and effects at 30 fps PLUS more since PS4 has additional power.

Lets talk Project CArs.

Lol. X1 version is weaker in resolution, graphics and frame rate IN ALL AREA.

Due to significant difference in hardware strength, dev had to make less compromise compared to X1.

Edit. Want to talk facts? Here are the facts.

1. More power = less compromise and less trade off.

2. Comparing 2 game is opinion. not fact. No matter how desperate you make that argument.

3. 1.3 tflop vs 1.84 tflop. lol.

4. MS engineer themselve said "DX12 is giving what console have to PC" which is what this article is saying.

[muzikjunkie80]

APexGamer45

i could care less what console is more powerful the games do the talking and i for one am enjoying games on both and see no major difference between the two systems.

both systems show a significant leap from the ps3 and xbox 360 and both have an excellent library of current and upcoming games, thats what matters most.

"More power = less compromise and less trade off"

you mean like infamous second son? really nice looking game to the naked eye but if you look at the technical side of it you notice the trade offs to achieve those visuals.

i will go into detail ;)

puddles have no physics they dont ripple as you walk through them, the windows in shops cars and other reflective surfaces show no moving animations ie your character does not reflect of any windows, wet ground or mirrors in the game and same can be said for anyone else that walks around, the draw distance is pretty poor ie pop in textures on trees and buildings from not to far away. and same could be said about the order 1886 another fantastic looking game but with hardly anyone walking around the streets then those visuals are possible.

this does not make the games less fun but there are trade offs regardless what console it is and thats a fact.

[microgenius]

"The answer to that, in its entirety, rests with the game developer"
As long as Playstation has the likes of naughty dog santa monica and probably kojima, PS owners wont be worried in this regard

[frostypants]

Example: my favorite game on PS4 is Rocket League. It's a simple little game and graphically it's pretty, but hardly mind blowing. But the gameplay is stellar.

[assdan]

Get over what? This was an analytical article, and a good one at that.

[ccgr]

Every little bit will help, but not expecting any miracles

[Imp0ssibl3]

There surely won't be miracles.

[Black0ut]

So certain of yourself there.

Gotta love the downplayers. Stay strong...

[assdan]

@blackout. Did you even read what they said? There isn't going to be a visible increase for gamers. That's the point of this article. It's not downplaying it's a fact.

[Black0ut]

@4.1.2

That's not a fact, as fanboys on this site call it.

Did you even read what HE said? Stop jumping to gun so quickly.

"There surely won't be miracles" is downright wrong as he hasn't the slightest idea of what could be possible.

I definitely agree with the original poster that I won't EXPECT any miracles but how can any of you say there there DEFINTIELY wont be any? Yall can't speak with 100% certainty. That's entirely wrong.

The downplay is beyond amazing around here, except for when it's 'another' console. Stay classy.
E: Spellllling

[gfk342]

Until now every Xbox fan(boy) was bragging about DX12's potential to raise the X1 power, despite many well known people saying that no significant changes will be brought (Phil Spencer, SMS).

With the time passing, more and more Xbox fan(boys) wake up to reality, realising that DX12 will not help X1 to be equal to PS4.

Better later than never.

Not to say that there are still X1 fan(boy)s that are still believing in DX12 miracle (please see the disagrees) and also that X1 has a 2nd hidden GPU.

[Alexious]

That's mostly because Xbox One already has a low level API. The real DX12 magic will happen on PC.

[Justiceleague]

DX12 will definitely help PC!

[donthate]

This is false!

Real developer has already spoken of 20% increases with no optimization, by just switching.DX12 is yielding 1600% increase on PC. It is not expected to do that for consoles so Phil Spencer is careful in setting expectations.

The most significant thing DX12 brings for Xbox is the ability to distribute CPU load on all the cores. This is a major problem on DX11 even on Xbox so this will by console terms give it a huge boost.

But reality is I'm talking to a wall that will bounce any rime or reason as long as it is positive Xbox. You are the essence of fanaticism!

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"With the time passing, more and more Xbox fan(boys) wake up to reality, realising that DX12 will not help X1 to be equal to PS4."

Those are your imaginary words. I don't see any Xbox fanboy saying it will be equal to PS4. When cloud was proven to enhance X1 dramatically nobody in those articles were saying "yeah take that PS4" or anything stupid like that.

[snoopgg]

Everything Donhate spues about xboxone is false. He is one very delusional gamer.

[gfk342]

@AngelicIceDiamond

What?

On this site we had big threads on how DX12 will DOUBLE the X1 power, based on the "research" of some delusional X1 fan(boy)s or some statements given by second tier developers with hidden agenda.

http://n4g.com/news/1487593...

In the above thread 414 comments were posted, being believed by the majority that DX12 will double the power of X1.

Thus, not only was believed that DX12 will help X1 to equal PS4, but it was launched the idea that DX12 will help X1 to surpass the power of PS4.

Funny to think know what the X1 fan(boy)s were able to say/ invent in order to convince themselves over their purchase and thus to be able to have a good sleep during nights.

[sammarshall102]

Sorry but these numbers haven't showed any significant difference between versions yet

You can barely make out the differences in games

I'd rather have the games I wanna play and so far they are on Xbox One

[Sonyslave3]

2016 is going to be the year that people find out that Ps4 is not 50% powerful then xbox one and they gonna roit just like Mad Max being better on Xbox one then Ps4.

[riseer23]

Eh Ps4 is still the better console,it has more games and better hardware at the end of the day.2016 is going to be an awesome year for both Sony and MS i believe,i just think Sony will have a better year.If the price drops for Ps4 hits Europe and America,MS will have their hands full for sure.Also Mad Max is just 1 of like 4 games that is slightly better on Xone.The main reason for this is the fact it was made on DX11 for Pc and that trickles down to Xone quite well.

If you look at titles like MGS5 which clearly is better on Ps4.Most games run better on Ps4,the only thing that Ps4 has an issue with is AF anisotropic filtering.Lately tho most games have been getting it so i doubt that will be much of an issue as the API gets better.

[vinniects]

big question is would a game made on DX12 for pc trickle down better on xbox one than the ps4 version going forward.

[donthate]

vinniects:

Bigger question is when Crackdown 3 cloud technology is on Xbox One, PC can't even keep up, so what possibilities lies there for the future of Xbox One?

Xbox One with Crackdown 3 is able to leapfrop PC! Very excited about Summer of 2016 for the beta.

[ORyanDeee]

@donthate - that's thanks to the cloud servers not the xbox console

[boodi]

@riseer23 WTF MGS5 BEING CLEARLY BETTER ON PS4????

[Seafort]

@donthate

Lol of course it'll be better than PC and PS4 if you bring more compute power into the equation.

It's not Xbox One becoming more powerful but the azure servers propping up a wheezing Xbox console.

If people have a poor internet connection it'll struggle for those people though. That's not something I would wish to gamble on. It may create a 2 tier customer base. Those that have decent internet and those that don't.

The cloud servers will be for nought then but that's the same for all internet based games.

[Whirlwind_Fanfare_08]

Famous:ss, driveclub, the order, killzone:sf, bloodborne, until dawn, ratchet & clank, uncharted 4 and whatever else are using that 50% more that you claim that the PS4 don't have to make their games looks awesome and do things the XB1 can't do.Remember what dan greenawalt said about not having dynamic weather and rain in their game? it was too hard! how is it too hard?
that's a clearly just meant the system couldn't handle it. A real dead giveaway! it would suck if they got liscense to 24 hours of leMans racing and it just be in the daytime. Sorry Bro, but all the dx12 and software updates, etc. ain't gonna help the games on XB1 look better, just help with resolution. *Drops mic*

[Bigpappy]

You should ask yourself: Which game on PS4 does 1080p with a solid unflinching 60fps? I will stop there with out getting into what else Forza does, as that would be adding insult to injury.

[gfk342]

@Bigpappy

I am tired to hear about Forza running at 1080p60fps.

Forza 6 does not have dynamic lighting, dynamic day/night cycle nor dynamic weather.

Also, only 6-7 out of 27 tracks can be played in rain or night.

Also, during rain weather, everything is scripted, as the tracks remain the same during the race without water gathering on track.

In conclusion, Forza 6 has VERY MANY compromises in order to achieve 1080p60fps. In other words, 1080p60fps is nothing to brag about considering how MANY features are missing from the game.

To put it into perspective, GT5 a 5 year old game has dynamic day-night cycle and dynamic weather.

To answer your question, MGSV is one game on PS4 that plays 1080p 60fps.

[Taero]

@6.2.1 I can make Pong run at 1080p 60fps...that doesn't make it a good looking game. I would posit that ANY game could reach 1080/60 if enough sacrifices were made to it. The point is, do we want those specs by sacrificing effects?

[Kingdomcome247]

@Taero- I agree for the most part, but I feel as though 24 car online races with nary a torn frame, or dropped frame is actually a pretty good reason for making minimal sacrifices elsewhere, as it dramatically improves the actual gameplay experience in ways that something like say dynamic time of day/weather would not. With everything that's going on under the hood in terms of physics computations, puddle physics simulation, tire physics that are reliant upon tire temperature, tire pressure, tire deformation physics, and differing frictional values for different surfaces that are also dependant upon different surfaces temperatures. I personally feel as though they made rather intelligent tradeoffs in working within their limitations, and incredibly narrow per frame alotted rendering time. While the game may not be not the crown jewel or pinnacle of racing game graphics, the game is still mighty pretty, and the game's graphics are nothing to sneeze at by any means. They've managed to achieve some rather impressive feats in many other areas within the game that I believe add far more to the experience as a whole than dynamic weather/time of day systems could ever hope to.

[kraenk12]

Very creative troll name you got there. So sneaky. You can deny the simple technical fact that PS4 has 50% more shader units but it still remains that...a fact.

[solidboss07]

Its not 50% more powerfull.
More like 30%.
GT7 will improve upon last gen GT5 and GT6. Adaptive Tessellation, Dynamic weather, ect. Forza 6 is nice in a last-gen kind of way.
The extra performance potential of the PS4 will show with first party games.
Of course 3fd party differences already exist in games. The only console on which to play MGSV in HD is PS4!

[lastking95]

Lol 720p is hd and 900p is higher than 720p so your statement is false you can play mgsv in hd on ps4 AND Xbox one.

#HeadOnAStick

[solidboss07]

You do know that True HD is 1080p @60fps? Well, you do now!
Lol as you wrote.

[VER1ON]

I've said it before and I'll do it again - the differences are minor and one should pick a console based on games.

[Alexious]

Both consoles will have great games in 2016, gamers should own them both.

[riseer23]

I agree with you i am very close to buying an Xone for those exclusives.I bought a Ps4 because i know Sony will deliver some awesome exclusives heck Bloodbourne,Until Dawn,Uncharted Collection are enough alone to buy the system.

MS has some great exclusives under their belt Forza 6 looks like so much fun.I can only hope GT7 can get most of the features Forza 6 has.

[Kingdomcome247]

If it's financially feasible for a certain individual to do so, then I couldn't agree more. 2016 more so than any other year thus far this gen is shaping up to be an absolutely stellar year in regards to each respective system's exclusive lineups. I for one wouldn't want to be without either console next year. If I hadn't done so already I'd purchase each console just for the likes of Quantum Break, UC4, Scalebound, Gears 4, Crackdown 3, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Recore, Street Fighter V, No Man's Sky, Sea of Thieves, Cuphead, Ratchet & Clank, The Tomorrow Children, Below, Inside, Wild, Rime, Ashen, Hellblade, Ion, etc... just on the exclusive front next year looks unbelievable . As a gamer I'm thankful to have the opportunity to own both, and I'd hate not having access to all of those games .

[fiveby9]

I own both consoles. Got the Xb1 pretty low cost. However, for multi-plats I definitely play on PS4. I prefer the PS4 having used both but don't dislike Xb1.

[rainslacker]

As a gamer it's hard to disagree. But on the other hand, if one system can provide enough games to keep someone happy, why get both? Problem comes in if both systems have enough games to keep one happy, and then it comes down to having to decide if you want to drop the extra money...not always a fiscal reason not to, it could be just not enough time to play both...or simply pick the one that feels right for them.

Nothing wrong with owning one, but that's not reason to hate on the other. If it's not your money, it's not really hurting others to choose one or the other.

[mark_parch]

well said sir, that's why i went with xbox one

[mark_parch]

dx12 won't make a significant differance to xbox one but will make more of an impact than the current differance between ps4 and xbox one

[kraenk12]

What people seem to deny is that PS4 already has an even more low level API than DX12 will be when released. Why shouldn't PS4 not make the same progress?!

The real difference will come via cloud computing if at all.

[S2Killinit]

both consoles are being updated on a constant basis. the only difference is DX12 is getting exposure by advertising.

[LightofDarkness]

The PS4 can technically "out DX12" the Xbox One already, we just haven't seen anyone take full advantage of all those ACEs yet. Once devs get comfy using the Xbox One's DX12 enhancements, you can be sure that they will apply those same techniques to the PS4 with even greater effect. I recall Mark Cerny remarking that these machines will only start becoming really interesting once developers learn to take advantage of those ACEs. Then we'll start seeing more ambitious graphical adventures.

This DX12 optimization is a double-edged sword for Xbox One (and its fanboys): yes it will increase Xbox One's potential somewhat, but it will expose even greater potential within the PS4. Careful what you wish for, I suppose :p

[TheGreatGamer]

DX12 is only avaliable on the Xbox One though.

[LightofDarkness]

No one said it was. I don't think you've quite understood the crux of what I've written (or you're being wilfully ignorant).

One of DX12's big optimizations comes in the form of asynchronous computing, i.e. splitting up the hitherto singelton graphics pipeline into multiple threads of execution. The PS4 and Xbox One have practically always allowed this, as develoeprs have always had direct-to-metal access to the GPUs, but DX12 simply makes this functionality easier to use for developers on Xbox One. It really makes more of a difference on PC, where they previously did not have the ability to do this without breaking DirectX compatibility or hacking it together.

The thing is, these optimizations are available on PS4 as well, they've just not been taken advantage of much yet because developers haven't had to push too hard optimizing their games at such a low level yet. It's just not called DX12, and there likely isn't as advanced an API structure around it yet. And by advanced I don't mean faster, I mean more developer friendly.

@ninsigma: I'm aware of the draw calls vs. tiled resources optimizations, but again, the Xbox One has always had that capability, due to having a direct-to-metal "DX-like" API.

[ninsigma]

He's not talking about dx12 on ps4 but ps4 having the same capabilities as dx12 already albeit by using different techniques. In that regard I disagree with his comment that devs figuring out dx12 will help ps4 development. They are very different and dx12 is more for aiding in the use of tiled resources which is what the xbox was built around while the ps4 (as far as I'm aware) has no such thing.

[Kingdomcome247]

I can't claim to have any knowledge to speak of in regards to gaming development, or the utilization of each system's toolset. I truly believe that the main benefits of DX12 on Xbox One will lie in it's ability for the exponentially easier porting of games to the platform, in addition to the new esram api that will allow devs to utilize the increased bandwith that it allows for, and it's capabilities in a headache free manner.

[carlosjrix]

Drama..

[DrumBeat]

Indeed.

Best comment so far.

[riseer23]

Eh i don't think DX12 will do much of anything for Xone other than the Esram will get better optimized.What people don't understand is OpenGL has all the features that DX12 has but more.With Vulkan coming out i can only see more optimizations for Ps4.Both API's work wonderful so i just don't see DX12 changing anything.

We all know Sony/Cerny wanted a console that can use GPgpu to re leave the Cpu bottleneck somewhat and those ACE units will help.They added 64 queues this will help middle ware such as Havoc or any physic engine that supports compute.

The issue with Xone is the ram is slow and it will have issues with async,MS really didn't upgrade the async side like Sony did...well AMD did it but still.Looks like Uncharted 4 is using async as well the physics in that game look amazing compared to what we have seen so far.

[LightofDarkness]

Agreed, I think Uncharted 4 and Horizon (particularly the former) are making the first proper use of async, with all those impressive physics simulations going on (dat mud!).

[meche334]

They cant tell how many ace's the xbox one has because ms disabled async compute in the driver. once its enabled then we will know how many aces it has

[LightofDarkness]

They know the custom chip design and thus know how many ACEs are in there. There are 2 ACEs with up to 16 compute queues total, compared the the PS4s 8 ACEs with 64 queues. This is not going to change when DX12 is released.

[donthate]

Dark:

"This DX12 optimization is a double-edged sword for Xbox One (and its fanboys): yes it will increase Xbox One's potential somewhat, but it will expose even greater potential within the PS4. Careful what you wish for, I suppose :p "

No, only fanboys are concerned about keeping the other system down. If this is positive for PS4, that is also great! It is a win-win!

That said, I think DX12 has been a long time in the making, so I expect any "copying" done by Sony to integrate will take a while too.

It sounds more like to me you are one of them Playstation fanboys that wishes ill will on other platforms.

That said, Xbox One was built for DX12 so it is going to be great to see that taken advantage of.

That said, personally these are all small leaps compared to Crackdown 3 like cloud technology that makes the Xbox One leapfrog even the strongest gaming PC!

Next summer is going to be very interesting with the Crackdown 3 beta coming!

:D

Edit below:

"Ah, this site. Yesterday I was an Xbox fanboy for daring to speak ill of Sony's pre-TGS conference."

In this case, it is how you talk! Problem isn't your opinion, but the way you present it.

The fill rate has a maximum, but if you increase the time given to it then that is an increase in result. DX12 does this with reduced overhead and CPU load balancing. In fact, DX12 works best on systems that are CPU bottle necked, which the Xbox One is and why MS chose to overclock the CPU.

[LightofDarkness]

Ah, this site. Yesterday I was an Xbox fanboy for daring to speak ill of Sony's pre-TGS conference. I hold no allegiances to either of these companies and am constantly baffled as to why anyone else does.

The Xbox is still technically limited by it's fill rate and theoretical maximum output, and that won't change no matter how many cloud servers are employed. At the end of the day, it still has to draw all of that debris. Plus, all other aspects remain unchanged. It's still very innovative, and I can't wait to see more applications for it.

[GNCFLYER]

I tried telling people that two weeks ago and got roasted for it.

[codelyoko]

This pretty much sums up all the technical aspects of the DX12 - Xbox - PS4 flamewar

[triple_c]

"On the DX12 question, I was asked early on by people if DX12 is gonna dramatically change the graphics capabilities of Xbox One and I said it wouldn’t. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12. DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12, but people ask me if it’s gonna be dramatic and I think I answered no at the time and I’ll say the same thing.”

It will help a little but it won't be the type of dramatic change that people think think it will be.

Now these are not my words.. These are Phil Spencers words.. Phil Spencer also said Tomb Raider was timed and you guys ignored it and look what happened. I think you Xbox fanboys need to stop over hyping DX12 and maybe start listening to what Phil Spencer is saying before you end up eating more crow again.

[Sonyslave3]

Dude the best looking game this gen is still Ryse a freaking xbox one launch game and it don't use Dx 12 lol.

Some 1 please explain 2 me how the weaker console is out doing the so call 50%(which is lies) console in graphics but not only that but in exclusive games running in 1080p and 60fps like why is Forza 6 doing 1080p and 60fps with 24cars on screen but Driveclub isn't .

If the Ps4 was really way more powerful then Xbox one it wouldn't be having the same trouble as Xbox in Res and FrameRates go look at Digital Foundry framerate test of Until Dawn and BloodBorne and Witcher 3 which run better on the One.

If ps4 was 50% more powerful every game would be in 1080p and 60fps but that not going to happen this gen.

I found it funny how random blog guy say Dx12 and the Cloud won't be and help for Xbox one but Developers the people who make games for a living and i'm not talking about the ones that only work for sony, Are saying Dx 12 and Cloud is going to improve the Xbox.

[FlexLuger]

"Dude the best looking game this gen is still Ryse a freaking xbox one launch game and it don't use Dx 12 lol."

And lets not forget that forza motorsport is currently the only racer that is 1080P AND a LOCKED 60FPS, on consoles.

Lets not forget the the best looking game on the PS4 is also 900P, just like Ryse is on XB1. And yet we all agree that both ryse and the order are both stinkers...Honestly....I think people just need to shut the hell up and enjoy their games.

cfc83 + 11m ago
"Wanka sign @ whoever wrote the article"

Completely agree! lol ;)

[Krakin1]

Ryse? That's your opinion and I disagree with it. I would expect Foza to run at 108060 with those graphics. The game is not a technical marvel with its bad AA, last gen effects, no dynamic weather or lighting. Lots of sacrifices had to be made to make Forza run rock solid man.

[dRanzer]

I dont even knows were to start answers this bs comment of yours,there is to much wrong things with your comment(s),you always try to distort things and covince yourself that you are right

Are we all agree that ryse is the best looking game on any console that runs at 900P with 25 fps? not to mention the downgrade crytek did to this game

A 1080/60 fps with a race game,Boo hooo,if this engine will be available on ps4 you will see the same results or better ones
If driveclub engine will run on xbox one,well you alreay know what im talking about here
Froze 6 is tech marvel,not visul one

And agian you distort facts.
After many updates the witcher 3 runs smooth on both console,do you see any update that CDPR released that boost up the RES on xbox one? Funny that you compare this game and he dosn't even runs on the same res on both console lol

Im getting tired,but i guess you undrerstand me

[triple_c]

@Sonyslave3

1. The statement in my original post was quoted was from PHIL SPENCER himself. This is not something I pulled outta my a**. All you Xbox fanboys can down vote me all you want but it isn't going to change the fact that he said what he said. Actually, I can pull up more statements of him saying it wouldn't be a massive game change if you'd like but I think a quick google search should suffice.

2. The fact that you think Ryse is the best looking launch game this gen is an OPINION. You're passing your opinion off as a fact which it isn't.

3. Most multiplats look AND run better on the PS4. In what world does 900p looks better than 1080p? I can also show you a list of multiplats that run better on the PS4 according to Digital Foundry that will destroy your claims.

4. Most of what your comment consist's of is just you just rambling on and on about things that don't have anything to do with what I said or the topic at hand.. I'm talking about DX12 on the Xbox One and you're talking about which console runs multiplats better and why the PS4 isn't 50% more powerful than the Xbox One. Stay on topic dude.

Now this is for all the fanboys that will misconstrue my post; I'm not saying DX12 won't have a massive impact on the Xbox One but what I am saying is that I don't think you guys fanboys should overhype DX12. Judging from Phil's comments about DX12 on the Xbox One, I think you guys should wait until it releases to see what kind of improvements it'll bring before you start hyping it up to be something that it isn't and you end up eating crow. That's all I'm saying

[Automatic79]

Why does everyone for get the Second best looking game on Xbox One is Quantum Break which might I add won the coveted Siggraph awards. All this downplaying on Xbox one is ridiculous meanwhile they continue to prove naysayers wrong. First people stated Xbox One can't pump out beautiful games and Ryse and QB proven them wrong, then they claim can't do 1080p meanwhile all top games are 1080p on Xbox One, then they knocked power of Cloud but So far Titanfall, Forza and in near future Crackdown 3 continue to prove them wrong, then said Backwards Compatibility couldn't be done, Now they knock DX12 but fail to see the beautiful Final Fantasy presentation at Xbox Gamescom briefing. Guys enough with bashing Xbox continues to improve and move gaming forward enjoy both systems and quit the BS. Whatever MS with Xbox does today I guarantee the competitors are going to follow.

[butchertroll]

Check the Project Cars, man!

[solidboss07]

MGSV is in HD on PS4. 40% more pixels on screen.
There, explained. Sleep easy.

[RiseofScorpio]

Do you know what "dramatic" even means?

[kstuffs]

Phil isn't going to promise the moon. MS was very vocal about Cloud Compute and people said it wasn't possible or just dismissed it as PR BS. Phil is smart not to promise anything.

[rainslacker]

This I can agree with, and it's wise that he does not over promise...or make any promises he's not 100% sure of.

What I think the OP was getting at though was that despite this, some fan boys still want to make claims or assume that what Phil said is just him not over promising, and he's only doing it to surprise everyone later, and that DX12 will show great improvements. They still go on about the power of DX12 in relation to the X1, despite the numerous claims from Phil, or others, that it's not what the fan boys are hyping it up to be. In this whole debate, I think it's the fan boys that are the problem, not the actual facts or possibilities. Generally speaking for brevity's sake of course.

Quite honestly, MS not over promising on their features is rather contrary to their standard MO, but that's another debate entirely.

I won't get into a whole discussion of the cloud thing. I never said it wasn't possible, I just question the practicality...but I do know some Sony fans go out of their way to downplay the possibilities.

[cfc83]

Wanka sign @ whoever wrote the article

[user9950279]

Clearly the difference wont be massive, but every little bit helps. A little bit of DX12 optimization here, a few processes offloaded to the cloud here, sprinkle in the optimization that comes with every console cycle.... I expect to see some great games this gen that take advantage of all these little features to great effect.

The world isn't as black and white as N4G would have you believe. It's not a yes, it's not a no... more of a so/so.

[Kribwalker]

A flamebait article by some random guy "see we believe him. No significant change"

Interviews with people actually working with DX12 and seeing the differences "these guys are such liars. They don't know what they are talking about"

Smh so stupid

[RedCloud88]

Honestly I think both consoles would be served well to lock in at 900p on all games. The gpu resourses saved from that 180p drop could keep these games impressing for a few years instead of making compromises to the graphics to reach 1080.

[Lust4fartdust]

Dx12 will allow devs to utilize the hardware more efficiently. If u use it more efficiently, then u can free up some resources to do other things. Not saying it will be huge but just saying it will improve. Also, the guy that wrote this article said that it has 4+4+1 cores. 1 core being reserved of course for redundancy and bottlenecks. But, I remember 1 core being reserved off the cpu which would be 3+4. Idk tho. Second, he said the Xbox 360 had 256 MB ram. He's wrong, it had 512 MB ram. PS3 had 256 MB ram with a additional 256 MB XDDR. Not saying he's wrong with everything in this article but if he's going to post a article do some fact checking first, kinda helps your credability. The main purpose of DX12 is to make if basically a pc. PC gaming is far more popular than console gaming. Microsoft may not have the most powerful system but they definitely push the industry. Look at the potential of cloud compute, look at Xbox live. They started unified shader architecture with the Xbox 360 on the ati card inside it. Nvidia basically said it was stupid. But now look, ALL gpu use unified shader architecture. Microsoft pushes the industry period. It's kinda like how everyone benefits from unions even if they aren't in a union. Ur non Union companies would pay less if it wasn't for unions. There's a bigger picture here than what most people see. I love my ps4 too, Sony and Microsoft could learn some things from each other for sure

[Persistantthug]

The cloud can/will deliver extra and special features. It won't enhance graphics.

[PistolsAtDawn]

...well, what you say is somewhat true. I don't see this gen graphics being rendered in the cloud, but how it MAY help in that area is by offloading other computations and freeing up the console to do other things....so in a way...2nd hand it WILL help with graphics.

[Locknuts]

I can barely see a difference between multiplats running on either machine. It's not like the difference between a PS2 and an OG Xbox. The differences are hardly there. I don't think I would even notice if DX12 improved performance.

[Iluvtrim]

So it is ok to type Xbox fan(boy) and not Sony fan(boy). How his post is still here I have no idea. Hypocrite site.

[Bobafret]

Being new to this site I must say that what I gather from DX12 naysayers is that they really, REALLY hope that DX12 will have no impact on the X1.

[AizenSosuke]

DX12 is just something to make Xbox ONE more efficient nothing more nothing less.

[Persistantthug]

Yes. But to be more specific, it's a tool to make porting across all platforms easier.

[AizenSosuke]

Yep!

[DrumBeat]

I'm just going to wait and see, as I'm merely a gamer and what little knowledge I have doesn't qualify me to make any claims.

Will it be good for the Xbox One? I think it will be in some way, but I'm not expecting anything major. If I'm wrong, then, well, good.

[GNCFLYER]

I see some, not all, of you xbox only gamers will not accept proof and live in your own reality that xbox is just as if not more ppwerful.

Just keep fighting, I'm sure you can convince a few people and sell a few systems.

Now that dx12 advantage or lack thereof has been explained this will shift to the cloud and how it's gonna shitt 4k games out for every xbone game.

[LastcenuryRob]

Wow, you have to be the biggest fanboy troll on here...By the way, for every article like this one there is one that states the opposite. My advice is to grow up a little and stop acting like a child.

[cd1]

Not a bad article but nothing new in there..not that it matters - i'm compelled to read them anyway :|

XB1 will surely benefit from DX12 and I hope it does, I just think some have too higher expectations.

[MeliMel]

I dont know how many times xbox team has said there wont be a significant increase in performance for xbox one. Which is fine because Xbox One already has great looking games.

[S2Killinit]

You have to admit there has been two different voices coming from the xbox management. As evidenced from the belief of some fans that DX12 will be putting xbox on par with PS4.

Ive never seen so much coverage for a software update before. The articles are written in response to either of two scenarios 1) something is said by MS which was open to speculation (purposefully or not); and 2) direct payment for said articles. I believe its a mixture of both. The author seems to be implying the same when he says that it seems MS has an interest in feeding the confusion. I agree.

[SaveFerris]

@MichaelLito79
'Why does everyone forget the Second best looking game on Xbox One is Quantum Break which might I add won the coveted Siggraph awards.'

I can't seem to find Remedy or Quantum Break listed as winners of the SIGGRAPH Awards 2015. Perhaps if you could provide a link I would be happy to admit I was wrong. It is a nice looking game though.

http://s2015.siggraph.org/a...

[butchertroll]

Quantum Break DIDN'T WIN ANYTHING AT SIGGRAPH!

Xbone fans just made up that shit!

http://www.icxm.net/x/quant...

SIGGRAPH Recognizes ‘A Boy and His Kite’ with Best Real-Time Graphics and Interactivity Award

https://www.unrealengine.co...

[ilikepizza]

All that power for indies.....we don't need direct x12! Look at the line up this year,fucotta here Sony fanboys

[IrishSt0ner]

No current graphics card in existance runs the full feature set of DX12.

We've always known X1 runs a highly customised DX11.X that uses many DX12 features, GCN1.1 will NEVER run the enitre DX12 feature set.

PS4 is, and always will be, graphically superior to X1.

DX12 is for the millions of PC gamers, only AMD users get a massive boost due to async.

We'll see NVIDIA with Pascal having full DX12 COMPLIANCE... and yet again a new DX is released under the promise of massive improvements for all only to find out NO you've got to buy the new cards... ffs same old crap.

[boodi]

dx12 is not a game changer
this is a know fact
xb1 has less power but better developed games , still has power to make grogeous graphics .. in no way far from ps4 ..
900vs1080 at worse .. that is not an overwhelming compromise really .. about mgs5 being clearly better on ps4 , wtf ...
other then this console war is very high ..
when you get both consoles you stop to brag about one or the other .. as both as their strenght in relation to their exclusives.. while many multiplat are doing fine on both ..

[S2Killinit]

"better developed games" really.

[boodi]

yeah bro i got driveclub at launch it was my most wanted game as motorstorms where my most fun and great series racer .. and was disappointed .. and KZSF was a meeeee for me .. and if you played kz 1 and 2 you know what i mean . . . .a completely redisigned game with very little of the original mood of the series .. and more
now im happy with driveclub but man it took 1 year to develope the game to its original extents ..
i look forward to receive better developed games for sure ..

quite happy camper with xb1 releases so far instead

[S2Killinit]

Your nitpicking. We had the same issue on MCC. No i dont buy it. Besides "better developed games"? That sounds like your saying xbone games are somehow "better". I mean, thats such a huge generalization, especially considering that the PS4 has by far the greater number and variety when it comes to offering not available elsewhere.

[audiocafe]

....
...
I just want support for VRAM stacking available in future games using DX12 on PC

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Article reveals nothing new. I'd rather here from developers.

[ScorpiusX]

Bring what it may I look forward to seeing the games that will use it and how future Xbox Will work with it .

[parentsbasement]

so it still an upgrade , no matter how small...better than it was...not worse , better...

[MCTJim]

hmmm, I just clicked the article and a big disclaimer is under the title pic. I'll wait till the games come out where a true comparison can be made..ya know since there are no real DX12 games out as of yet.

[PistolsAtDawn]

Who knows how much DX12 will ultimately affect gaming. I know Occulus keeps saying it will help a ton in the VR arena. One thing I think people keep (willfully) forgetting is that there are three tiers to DX12 and how it will affect games. A) games not made for DX12 at all, running on a system that uses DX12 B) games that "support" DX12, meaning mostly that they were just patched to use it, but not built for it, and C) games that were built from the ground up to use DX12. Obviously the performance advantage would go in that order. It sounds here from this article, that they are really just talking about systems using DX12 running games that weren't made for it.

Again, I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't KNOW what will happen, but it sounds like it will provide great advantages to gaming...even if it isn't as simple a making a 900p game a 1080p game or something like that. It's already known to make porting and crossplay much easier, it allows devs to more easily take advantage of things such as eSRAM and such. Honestly I'm hoping they use it more to expand upon actual graphical components like lighting and particle effects and solid FPS rather than just Res.

[jokerisalive]

So many insecure haters on here trying to put down or thwart anything dx12 related for XB1. How about this people...let's wait and see what happens? If it helps a little great that is a gain either way. I don't think it will ever make up for the obvious hardware power differential that goes in the PS4's favor but any gain is a good thing and always helps a system to become better. The XB1 is plenty powerful and has the games nailed down this and next year in terms of first party. That cannot be argued unless your just a hater and fanboy. As an owner of both machines and an open minded gamer, I for one want DX12 to help XB1 in any way it can if it means better games or more potential. I am sure as time goes by we will see some nice benefits.

[Cueil]

I want my 10 minutes back!

[Gwynbleidd]

What a pointless article...Arm-chair dev journalist gives his insights and other console warrior armchair devs follow in the comments... *sigh!

Keep calm people, enjoy your games and wait for hard numbers on DX12 when it is released and used for game engines.

Meanwhile:

GIVE ME SOME POPCORN! :)

[LastcenuryRob]

and tomorrow there will be another headlining article stating how DX12 is a powerhouse that will blow everything else away on the X1... This website seems to become more gaming tabloid each month.

[FN4GM]

Here come the water works, oh never mind too late.

[alb1899]

Ps4 is more powerful but I want to play Scalebound, Quantum Break, Halo5, Gears, forza6 and Crack Down. Plus Xbox live more powerful than psn and I play almost everything online.

For the rest of the year I'll be more than happy with tomb raider and halo.....what will ps4 fans play for the rest? Multi platforms?

[beans]

I wonder why MS is so silent about dx12. They were silent with cloud tech and look at what happened. We ended up with probably the biggest possible advancement in gaming history ever. I want to see a game built with cloud and dx12 from the ground up on X1. My advice is simple....just wait people for real developers to show what's possible if any. As far as most powerful console who cares. They both can put out really nice visuals and X1 has the most advanced 1st party games anyway. Surely 3rd party would be better too if developers actually put work into x1.

.