Since the day Oculus VR premiered on Kickstarter in 2012 the question has been: "How will users control these virtual reality video games?" That question was answered Thursday when the Facebook-owned company announced a new partnership with Microsoft to bundle Xbox One controllers alongside the Rift headset.
Windowscentral writes: "HoloLens, Virtual Reality, and Mixed Reality are all but dead at Microsoft."
Lol resupply breaks would become reformat breaks. Plus windows updates mid combat.
I also can’t imagine wearing a Hololens or any other headset for hours like that. Especially when you’re already carrying all the other equipment our soldiers carry today.
I would suck to go in to war and get... a blue screen of death.... literally.
I want this to be the most down voted comment. Sorry for my dark sense of humor.
Damn orchard, you almost had some form of virtual to praise to the high mountains about , least for the time being you can continue to down psvr2
'Headaches and nausea'
I get those symptoms using Microsoft Edge.
Darn thing locked up my laptop a few times and threw a no signal bug at my external or internal screen when it tries to load certain websites.
It's so bloated and frustrating to use. Always spamming me with pop up dialogues and stuff.
I don't use my laptop much, but yesterday made the time to set Chrome as my default.
It mentions that in the article, confused slightly as to whole divisions being laid off as The Verge article makes it seem that there is a 1.2 version of the headsets in testing and MSoft have received 165 Mill to carry on with them.
That's a different product, actually, not HoloLens. It is poorly written, but the 1.2 version they're going with is a different product they have also been testing.
Well there you have it folks Microsoft officially buried its room temperature foliage on a form of VR😢.
The good news for the team they might get a job at Sony or meta for their vr departments
I feel sorry for the hardcore Xbox fans that was holding up the wish of something coming out of mixed reality/HoloLens.
Not super surprising given how poorly VR and AR and all the metaverse stuff have taken off really.
Also outside of the military, you barely see or hear anything about Hololens these days.
I remember them talking about hololens back in the day. Showing that Minecraft with it to maybe compete with VR and now it's dead like everything else.
Yep lol, also the thing was like $5000. I wouldn’t pay $500 nevermind $5000 to play Minecraft in VR/AR.
AR is growing. Already used in cellphones. VR is growing everywhere else. It's just taking longer to integrate it in a pair of glasses.
Microsoft tried to use Hololens at E3 against VR and failed with that little window nonsense. Then, they played like they weren't pushing it for gaming when they actually were displaying games like Minecraft in it. Then, sold the tech against employee wishes to the military and failed because it's nauseating and having lights on a battlefield will get you killed. I had night vision in the army and could tell when an enemy inhaled on a cigarette. You could pop them right there. It's a good science fiction idea. But nothing replaces real battlefield awareness with your own eyes and ears in training or real war.
You're saying it failed because Microsoft is failing with Hololens. They partnered with 7 or so PC manufacturers to put out Windows VR headsets. But just like on console, they made NO GAMES for their headsets and expected others to pick up the slack. All those headsets hit fire sales and were discontinued. Microsoft's fault again for no Halo VR, no Forza VR, etc.
They failed again by not making good with their promise of high fidelity VR on Xbox One. When they have 2 TRILLION worth. Billions to buy up publishers. But not release VR because they want gamers on subscriptions and are buying up franchises to get them on game pass. But Sony is going to DELIVER high fidelity VR that Microsoft isn't.
PSVR sold at profit DAY ONE. Sony made millions in revenue on games and accessories proving that money can be made in VR and grow the market and platform. There are developers like Beat Games or even an indie making gorilla tag, can make money in VR. Sony are releasing their second one with even more potential to make more money that proves Microsoft wrong again.
Saying VR or AR is failing as a whole is FALSE. Education, automotive and building construction, real estate sales, music entertainment, medicine for PTSD help or cancer patients wanting to see things other than hospital walls, job instruction for places like Walmart... And GAMING, means they are not failing. Only in your mind.
The growth is real. You're just trying to deny it because of Microsoft. This isn't 3D TV or Wii waggle or your daddy's Kinect. VR and AR is here to stay.
“This isn't 3D TV or Wii waggle or your daddy's Kinect.”
That awkward moment when the failed products you’re using to defend another product had far higher attach rate and sales than the one you’re trying to defend 👀💀
“Not super surprising given how poorly VR and AR and all the metaverse stuff have taken off really for Microsoft”
Thought I’d fix that for you.
So where is the VR and metaverse success story? Quest 2?
Facebooks metaverse is dead too.
Replies(1)Sony seems to have gotten VR right. Wouldn’t you agree?
Meta Quest is doing fairly well too.
Now I agree that MS was right in letting it go because they weren’t having much success themselves.
No one has gotten it right yet, if by right you mean made it popular. The attach rate for PSVR is too low to call it that.
Quest is a little harder to judge since it's not attached to any device we can reasonably measure like PSVR is.
But until a good amount of gamers care, and/or it's considered mainstream, I would say VR hasn't landed.
As for MS, at the time it seemed like a risky bet, but in hindsight, they made the right decision if you look at where VR is today.
So Orchard you wouldn't consider VR a success unless it has a high attach rate to a parent device?
Bollocks
I consider VR a success if it gives you a good experience, an experience to can't get in any other format, and a decent amount of people use it and are happy with it regardless of attach rates.
Porsche doesn't consider themselves a failure because Toyota sell 100 times more cars.
If there's demand for a product and it makes profit then it's a viable business so get over your hangups.
And as for Microsoft making the right decision sitting back and watching because it's risky, well all that proves is they are participants in this industry, not leaders. If they had done VR and it was half-decent I can't help but think you would have a totally different opinion about it.
"So Orchard you wouldn't consider VR a success unless it has a high attach rate to a parent device?"
Correct. a 4% attach rate, for a gaming accessory on a parent device that is dedicated to gaming is unsuccessful. Kinect had a higher attach rate than that, and it was considered a failure too.
"Porsche doesn't consider themselves a failure because Toyota sell 100 times more cars."
Not comparable at all. Porsche being a premium, rare product that only the very rich can afford is part of their brand, meanwhile Toyota is the cheap, mainstream, 'most people can buy one of these' brand.
PlayStation products are more Toyota than Porsche.
"well all that proves is they are participants in this industry, not leaders."
Participating in VR isn't what defines you as a leader or participant in this industry. Nintendo are blowing the PS5 and XSX away, and they are not participating in VR. VR just isn't that popular or important 🤷
@ Orchard
"Not comparable at all. Porsche being a premium, rare product that only the very rich can afford is part of their brand, meanwhile Toyota is the cheap, mainstream, 'most people can buy one of these' brand."
Well actually within the gaming space you actually nailed it. Xbox is the toyota and Playstation is the Porsche..since it is more expensive in other parts of the world.
"Correct. a 4% attach rate, for a gaming accessory on a parent device that is dedicated to gaming is unsuccessful. Kinect had a higher attach rate than that, and it was considered a failure too."
Except nobody actually wanted kinect. It was forced onto IP and consoles with the xbox one. PSVR on the other hand is an optional device. An optional device that sold to 5million players. That is a success for a typical game and also embodies the hardcore audience. Most Playstation exclusives are guaranteed 5 million in sales. The attach rate for a non essential and expensive device shouldnt be seen in the same light as say an actual game or cheap subscription service. If it was actually a failure im pretty sure Sony wouldnt be wasting money on it.
"Participating in VR isn't what defines you as a leader or participant in this industry. Nintendo are blowing the PS5 and XSX away, and they are not participating in VR. VR just isn't that popular or important"
Thats not how it works. Sony is a leader in the VR industry regardless of popularity. Who else is doing it? So yeah. Not to mention you have to look at the games...I know...its an issue for xbox fans to dwell on whether games are actually any good but PSVR has good titles and PSVR2 doesnt look to disappoint either.
VR is so much fun. One day MS will get their act together. Don't lose hope! Hope is all you have. Keep believing…
I'd much rather MS, Nintendo and Sony all invest in traditional games instead.
Just look at PS5 in 2023, we're getting a very small handful of traditional Sony games this year because instead they've invested in appeasing ~4% of PS customers.
Nah, Sony knows how to make exclusives. We are getting so much Im falling behind in my backlog. MS on the other hand cant seem to make a single proper exclusive. Promises yes, games, no. And now, seems no VR either! What are they thinking? But, dont lose hope, one day they will fix all of it.
Orchy Sony can gives us traditional games and do some vr stuff. They gonna be alright. Vr is pretty dope if you'd actually try it or you can get your parents to get you one
Orchard you can be a real character at times. If Sony felt that PSVR didn’t meet or even exceed their expectations why would they move to release PSVR2? Sony is notorious for abandoning what they feel is a failure, but it looks like they are coming on even stronger with PSVR2.
I don't have data to prove this, but I feel like PSVR owners purchased more games and became more locked into the platform. Also more of the games were digital so no secondary market for used games. I suspect even though there weren't as many VR owners, they ended up spending a lot of money. I know I did
"If Sony felt that PSVR didn’t meet or even exceed their expectations why would they move to release PSVR2?"
Even Kinect had two iterations. Means nothing.
"Sony is notorious for abandoning what they feel is a failure"
I wouldn't say they are any more or less notorious than Microsoft and Nintendo. Google are the ones who are really notorious for killing things.
The Metaverse is something the former Facebook is trying to force while having no idea how to best implement it. Trying to use the "tried and true" method of get people using it then get it working.
How long have customer driven markets vs market driven consumers been things?
That is some serious cope. AR and VR are growing just fine. MS as a rule just sucks at innovation. Always has. They never see things through. Kinect was interesting but they ultimately botched that too.
I do think there has been a disappointing uptake on VR, but the reason is :
1: The upfront cost. You're literally doubling the price of the console.
2. Lack of first party support. Getting spin offs etc makes it feel like second fiddle.
I've just preordered PSVR2 for Gran Turismo 7 alone. THAT is what I want, a full blown game in VR. I don't think I'd have bothered otherwise. Until developers start making BR games from the ground up, I won't be that interested.
I'm surprised that the Oculus Quest and PSVR didn't have these problems
Replies(1)Price alone will keep VR in the "super luxury" and "specialist" categories of gaming for a long time to come.
Oculus founder Palmer Luckey was able to try out the Playstation VR 2 at CES and was "blown away" by the experience.
Yeah, you've got to be thinking he's used plenty of headsets. Not a bad person to impress!
True. And this PSVR seems to be pushing the envelope for VR with its marriage of eye tracking and foveated rendering. I have a feeling the fans are in for a nice surprise.
This is the guy who recently created a VR headset that kills you when you lose right?
Was that a joke? I read that and was like is it april fools? Lol I ask because even creating such a thing would be considered a crime.
For the people that try to downplay the original PSVR's success by comparing to total PS4 units, he also said:
"The first PSVR was arguably the biggest success of the generation, this version will do even better".
🤣🤣🤣 spec wise it weaker then what on the market already so, gotta be talking about games.
And he says that like it's a bad thing. Aren't games the most important part?
Pay no attention to the troll and they'll go back under their bridge.
it has the highest resolution of any currently available headset. Is the only one with eye tracking or foveated rendering... only one with full haptic feedback... sit down.
And it works, sonyslave has 10 replays. Some guys like him and Orchad love the attention when they talk negative about Sony cous they get a rush out of it.
technically it'll be the most advanced VR headset when it's released. Sure there will newer headsets that push the envelope further, but this will be a huge step up from what we have currently.
PSVR2 has the highest specs of any headset outside of the $1500 and above headsets out there which are not aimed at gamers, and even gives those a run for their money due to marriage of foveated rendering+Eye tracking.
It also has specs that the other headsets (even the $1500+ headsets) dont have which are game changers. Foveated rendering+eye tracking, haptic feedback, adaptive triggers.
PSVR2 is the biggest launch in VR and you could tell by the way it was treated at CES by the press and crowd. It also won headset of the show at CES.
Overall PSVR2 specs are well above anything out there currently.
I'm debating on getting the PSVR2 but not having backward compatibility is currently my roadblock
What game(s) specifically are you wanting? Loads of devs have confirmed they're working on patches, many for free, some we don't know yet.
I'd like to hear if this is happening for Superhot, but nothing as of yet.
Yeah, by release they have 30 and there are about 100 games in development.
That a sign that developers believe in PSVR2..,,
I was in the same boat(and still ticked about it), but I caved. I just love tech toys too much to hold that grudge I guess.
While it would be nice it's a silly road block imo. Maybe some devs will do a free upgrade or a patch or something but I wouldn't say eh I can't play my psvr games with my psvr2 so f that. It seems this one is gonna do good in the games department so there won't be a shortage or anything.
businessinsider writes: "His exit came on Friday, the people said. Carmack, who has been openly critical of Meta's advancements in AR and VR, core to its metaverse ambitions, posted to the company's internal Workplace forum about his decision to leave."
I hope he starts up another new company and can get another new game engine on the market too.
He's apparently focusing on AGI, Artificial General Intelligence, AKA trying to get AI to be sentient. Which according to Ray Kurzweil could happen by 2029.
Then I need to look more into this because it sounds like the backbone tech I need to make Projekt Monika a reality.
AI advances are really starting to open my eyes to us not even having scratched the surface. But with the field itself growing exponentially and stuff I'd never considered before like putting AI to work finding cures for major diseases - it's exciting but also kinda scary tbh.
More on topic - sentient AI. Creating a digital soul so to speak. Spooky in a what have we done and is it good or bad kind of way.
He is like: "Im done with F#@#$%NG nonsense, pff Metaverse da funk I was thinking!!, Im out!! :D"
Yeah he put a smile in his face too in the end.
I hope he goes back to traditional games.
VR gaming is a flop and the Metaverse has (fortunately) completely failed to take off.
VR has much more potential than flat screen games. Just need to tap the right market and fund AAA development. Meta is a rotten company though so good to see him leave.
That's where it becomes a catch-22 problem though. Very few companies (if any) are going to spend AAA amounts of dollars on VR if the market isn't there - and the market isn't there.
If it was the future of gaming we'd see the big publishers getting involved - and basically none of them are.
Agree on Meta 100% - horrible company and I really do hope FB (and social media) dies some day soon.
There will never be AAA games until VR sells at the rate of mainstream consoles. Understand that even if Sony do sell 3.5 million VR in the next 2 or 3 years like they hope, that isn't ever going to get any commitments for AAA budget. No investor would ever sign off on that.
The adoption has been terrible and the market basically non-existent as a result of that.
We're now 10 years into PC VR gaming, 6 years into console VR gaming and it just hasn't taken off - the reality is, most consumers don't care for it.
Even with a huge install base like the PS4, only a few million adopted it, about 3-4%.
He only thinks it in his mind. Because Microsoft isn't offering "high fidelity VR." Only Sony is offering "high fidelity VR" because they actually deliver.
I just read today that Honda is moving forward in using VR and has vehicles that were built in VR without an actual real vehicle.
Orchard just doesn't know any better. He claims he's a PlayStation fan but doesn't want Sony to succeed in growing the VR market. But he's okay with Microsoft buying up the industry and game pass. Tell you where his mind is actually at. Or he has investment in it.
But Carmack leaving is only that he was frustrated with higher ups. But he's very interested in AI. And that's a good field of investment too.
If any of the big 3 had sales were like VR for their console, they would fold like the Saturn. Right now VR is nothing more then a high priced peripheral and no one should expect AAA for it.
By the way , I am one who would like to see VR succeed, but it has a long way to go before that ever happens.
@Apocalypse
"Only Sony is offering "high fidelity VR" because they actually deliver."
And the reality is, from what we've seen thus far, the vast majority, about 97% of Sony customers don't care about it in the slightest. They can't even sell out of PSVR2 devices, which are supposedly in short supply. Better to just invest in traditional experiences instead.
"I just read today that Honda is moving forward in using VR and has vehicles that were built in VR without an actual real vehicle."
Yes. And that helps gaming how? I've said time and time again that AR/VR is great for enterprise. Just not great for gaming.
The lack of customers, lack of customer interest, and lack of AAA game companies investing & AAA game experiences being crafted says everything we need to know about the state and future of gaming VR.
When uncle philly announced true vr experience and demoed fallout 4 in one x, some xboys sings different tune..
'Just not great for gaming.'.
That's your heavily biased opinion. You are in every VR thread trying to project your doom and gloom. Why?
There are many genres where VR is at least equal to or better than flat. VR in a driving game destroys the flat experience.
FPS, horror games, even Tetris is better in VR.
You speak about AAA as if it's the only consideration, moving goalposts.
Capcom.
Are they not a AAA publisher?
Is RE4 not a AAA game? RE7? RE8?
The Metaverse is one big flop but VR gaming on its own still has steam and growth potential. Remember Mark and his Meta wants you to associate gaming with the meta verse the gaming industry and its large number of users has the capacity to sway the opinion of the mass market.
Incidentally, Meta is haemorrhaging money and expertise that’s what this article is highlighting.
See, the problem orchard is that you see what you want to see. Sony sold PSVR at profit. They made money on software. They made money on a 10 year old peripheral. Yeah. It didn't sell 100 million. How many games sell bucket loads when they cost almost 10 times less than PSVR was at launch? That's why the new headset is coming. Before, there was no console VR. There is now. To grow the market, you must keep pushing and not be afraid like Microsoft. Facebook, HTC, ByteDance, Varjo, Valve, Sony, etc are growing the gaming market. Did flat gaming sell millions overnight? No. It took time. Just like any other product. Fads fade. VR is not a fad because it has potential in many areas. Sony doesn't want PS VR 2 to be a Kinect. A fad. Millions on advertising but no substance. It's why PS Move still exists and works on PS5. And Kinect is dead. Move had substance. PSVR had substance. Which is why PS VR 2 exists.
Honda is an example of VR entering other sectors. It's fairly obvious that it "ain't no 3D TV." Bugatti also uses VR as well as other car manufacturers. VR is here to stay. I know it hurts you that it's growing bedsides flat gaming being successful too. Just like mobile.
You just like to lie to yourself and others. VR is in education, in construction, in the automotive industry, medicine, real estate, music.... AND GAMING. The market wasn't there. Now it's here and it's growing in every sector besides gaming. But you want it to jump out there immediately like some viral video or fad. That's not how it works.
Chances are, you developed something, because you call yourself a developer. And no one wanted your product. So you're projecting.But there are other companies and developers who are successful in making VR work. You just sucked at it.
You claim Sony isn't selling out on pre-orders. But you don't even know what numbers they have allocated. Or how many they are producing to meet demand. You just pull it out from you know where and lie to everyone that Sony is failing. Sony has said they will have headsets for launch and not have to worry about production. What do you have that goes against Sony's statements on the matter? Absolutely nothing. Put up your facts against Sony's production lines?
But tell us. What software you made for VR that failed so that we all can know where your mindset is?
@Knush You just highlighted the problem perfectly - the only AAA taking part in console VR is Capcom. Where is COD VR? Battlefield VR, GTA VR? All the big pubs are skipping on it because they don’t believe in its future - if they did they’d be investing in it now.
@Apocalyspe At the time I thought MS were insane for not getting into VR, but looking back on it, given where we are now, that seems like a very smart decision.
Honda making VR for car showrooms or whatever means nothing for gaming. The vast majority of gamers - PS gamers included - don’t care in the slightest about VR. The numbers show that.
I’ve never worked on a VR game nor do I want to. The market being non-existent means salaries are substantially lower when compared to AAA salaries. I wouldn’t take the pay cut - I’ve been in AAA since graduating college, and I intend to keep it that way.
But that’s also the good point of being a developer, ultimately it doesn’t really matter to me if the game sells well or poorly - I still get paid the same at the end of the day.
It’s funny that you mention Kinect because I consider the Kinect a failure too - but it still had 4x the sales of PSVR and a way higher attach rate.
We are supposedly still in the tail end of a chip shortage, so clearly we would expect a new device like PSVR to sell out - Sony themselves were too or they wouldn’t have done invites to get one initially - they thought it was going to be difficult for people to get one (so did many on here) but when it turned out it wasn’t they opened it up to everyone.
Clearly it isn’t moving as many units as they’d anticipated.
Come talk to me when we’re all sitting in our living rooms with VR headsets on and the attach rate is so high they ship it in the box as the default controller method - so I guess I won’t ever be hearing from you again :p
@Orchard
'the only AAA taking part in console VR is Capcom'.
No, EA and Ubisoft have VR games on console.
https://www.ea.com/games/f1...
Problem with VR is that it hasn't have legs. Everything from mevement, enemies, pacing, puzzles has to take that into equation.
Replies(2)I agree with you. I remember when Second Life was as the dogs bollocks and big business had store fronts or ambassador land parcels but soon discovered that it was pie in the sky. Second Life is still operational but only frequented by a stagnant population of people who were with it since it’s launch. New people sign up to try it out but tend to not stay. People want to browse the internet or use it to play games not live in it.
"And yet, you can provide me no evidence to the contrary."
Compare sales of gen 1 VR headsets with sales of gen 1 home consoles.
One of if not, the best game engine developer in the world. I hope he gets back into developing game engines.
They need to stick VR back in RnD departments everywhere that or let the porn industry lead the way like everything else that's been introduced then brought to mass market after porn made it a thing lmfao
Yea VR has that virt-a-mate thing which seems to be quite popular with adult Quest 2 owners, but i mean there is Half Life Alyx, few other things.. nothing huge after those so far.
"This partnership allows us to focus on a space that's different from them with our Hololens," Phil Spencer says
-Thats exactly what I said yesterday. Microsoft HoloLens demos look and sound more impressive at this point and thats where they are focused in AR. This partnership is just a "me too" type deal so they can have some connection in the VR space also.
Personally I need to see something impressive and of course try it for myself before I judge.