Industry analyst Michael Pachter has slammed Sony's upcoming streaming service PlayStation Now, labelling it a "joke" and claiming that "no publisher" will allow any title less than two years old to appear on the service.
Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter believes it's an incorrect gamers' perception that Microsoft has lost to Sony.
"If we change what our goal is, we're not losing" attitude. Kind of like how Microsoft didn't lose to Valve, they just changed their business model. And they didn't lose to Android and iOS, they just changed their business model. They 100%, after spending 3 generations competing heavily in console hardware, aren't losing to Sony, they're just changing their business model.
You can't ever lose if you just 'change your business model'!
Patcher predicted that take two would be brought out by ea he knows very little about the content of games and is so numbers focused
Yet I remember that he predicted perfectly that there was no way the acquisition of ABK would not go through and that the FTC and the CMA would fold when all the media had It's basically over kind of news.
He mentioned that MS would outsource COD streaming rights (or deny COD from appearing on GP) in UK.
What's kinda crazy to me is - if they retreat from consoles they're left with a business model that depends on making great games that people want to buy.
What has been Xbox's biggest issue over the last decade or so?
It's not like they're falling back to a strength...
They didn't retreat and even promised the biggest generational leap! Where did you get retreat from?
And just think of all those game franchises that are trapped with them, especially those they bought instead of creating.
@Gamer Yeah, just like the One X was a leap. Just like Series X was a leap. What did they bring to the table.....a leap in games? No, they brought sweet f all. Guys like you just never learn or are just dumb, falling for MS' talk talk talk over and over again.
Business is all about money not actual sales. If I sell 1 thing for 1 million and you sell 10000 things for 900k Who really won.
The person who sold 10000 things because he has developed a consumer base and consistent revenue stream while simultaneously showing that he has the capacity to obtain market share.
The person who sold 1 thing for a million hasnt proven much outside of the simple fact that he can get an idiot to pay a copious amount of money for a single product. Holla at me when he has proven he can do it consistently overtime.
This is a nuanced subject matter
How about the gamers perspective
Xbox as a console business is last in the gamersphere. Pivot after pivot, swerve after swerve. If it wasn't for pc the xbox console would died a while back. Console owners need to choose what's best for them, their experiences or the console owners profits
Great. Guess who is in third place (just talking the main console market, not even including mobile and PC) both on software sales, hardware sales, and video game revenue?
***Chris you might wanna do ya research ***
You're right! It's only 2nd place on revenue. Good on you.
"Based on these revenues, we can see that: PlayStation made $11.3 billion more than Xbox, and $14.7 billion more than Nintendo. Xbox made $3.4 billion more than Nintendo."
Now, do you want to find me proof that Xbox isn't in third on hardware and software sales? They've literally cannibalized their own sales via subscription services and their hardware is well known to be last place.
But, hey, Microsoft is okay losing in every category here, why would they get rid of a part of their business that they are in turn (and wasn't accounted for in 2023 numbers totally since it was distributed over 5 years, 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, and 2027, the cost of their latest purchase) spending more than 7x their annual revenue on.
@Chris I'm glad you did ya research seen you were wrong but you also forgetting this. Revenue isn't everything my friend, remember business is about money
https://www.essentiallyspor...
Oh my days, this is a terrible analogy...
If it was just about money, Microsoft wouldn't be doing a sub model, would they? They are literally making it cheaper than game purchases to get more uptake from more people. The goal is to have enough recurring subs over time to increase revenue (and eventually profitability), but that doesn't work in your assessment because they literally need to "sell 10000 things".
Good grief...
***Revenue isn't everything my friend***
Yeah, you know what that TweakTown report doesn't include? Any of the cost to buy ABK. That makes it a massive loss. Massive.
@DarXyde
That analogy still works, they need to consistently sell those subs to maintain/gain revenue, if they can't constantly sell those subs.
Switch "things" with "Subs", and it still works, but they need to constantly convince people to keep buying that subscription, other people will drop their subscription and revenue will decline.
FinalFantasyFanatic,
I don't think that quite works:
The argument this guy is making actually sounds supportive of Playstation selling a game over Game Pass subs.
Let's take a practical example, Persona 3 Reload.
If Atlus sells you the game at $70 on Playstation and "gives it away" on Xbox as long as you continue to pay for Game Pass, well... Following their logic, wouldn't it be better if fewer people buy it for a higher price than basing it on engagement via more people on XGP? How many people would you need to play P3R on Game Pass to get the same revenue?
Eventually, the latter *can be better*, but there is the matter of a larger install base on Playstation and XGP subs are a fraction of Xbox gamers.
It's a bit ironic and I think biases are on full display because what Philly boi is saying is, in principle, more supportive of the PlayStation model, but the thing is, PlayStation has both a higher price of access AND a larger pool to pull from.
If we want to talk about the manufacturers themselves and hardware, Xbox can be purchased cheaper than PS5, but it is still getting trounced in number of sales and price of admission.
I don't really see how this argument works.
The console war we've been watching for the last two decades has been what I find interesting. I don't really care how much profit MS can make by buying King and running Candy Crush any more than I care how much money they make bleeding businesses for MS Office licenses. That's boring. The fun thing to watch has been the work these companies have put in to try to win the console market.
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The obvious rebuttal to Pachter's cray cray notion is that you wouldn't have to change your model if you were winning.
Or "those who win get to change their business model."
Fanboyism ends at a brick wall of "big company no care about whether you like or hate them, get a life."
Sony said similar things when their Walkman was beaten by Apple and when Samsung surpassed them in the TV market. I can go on and on but I'm sure you get the picture. Business is business. All companies take a whippen every now and and then. The difference is how you bounce back. Microsoft net worth has grown over the years. Business wise they are very successful and no matter what, sony would love to be where they are financially. Sony isn't the competition microsoft worries about. That been clear for a long time now. Microsoft wants gaming to be a part of their ecosystem. Sony needs it. Big difference there.
There's a lot wrong here.
First, the attempt to turn this argument into one about other failed businesses. Which, surprisingly, you make the argument I'm making but then...
Second, the attempt to confirm that Microsoft isn't competition when Microsoft admitted in court that they are.
Third, the attempt to act like Microsoft, from a business perspective, doesn't need what they spent over $100b to acquire but Sony does? Laughable.
Businesses are about profits. If you stop earning enough profit in a division, it goes away. Simple as that. Xbox is a division competiting against Valve, Epic, Sony, Nintendo, Android, and iOS. Simple as that. Xbox, to remain 'part of the ecosystem' needs to not cost the company more than it brings in. Simple.
They actually won.
The whole point was to force Sony into playing ball so that they could not put “windows” in more jeopardy than it was at the time.
Apple, Google, then Sony innovating while partnered with Linux…
When will people realize it has never been about gaming as to why Microsoft got into gaming?
Trojan horses people.
With the way Linux and Steam Deck are going, Linux might one day catch up to Windows, it's doing pretty well for gaming these days compared to say, 10 years, or even 5 years ago.
I don't understand who u r saying won...
But I agree in that I wouldn't be surprised if Windows was part of the calculus for MS supporting Xbox. The OS was based on Windows at first and Xbox One kinda had two Windows instances if you count the hypervisor.
But, like the console space, I think MS is walking back on OS domination. Apple and Google completely ate their lunch because....surprise surprise they innovated. I'm 100% confident the reason Phil talks (and shows) about the Asus ROG Ally more than Steam Deck is because of Windows. The Steam Deck has to sting for them.
Well, yeah, that's the point. They're too big-a-company for fanboy stuff to be at-all relevant.
Well last I checked a company goal is to make more and more money,
Nintendo could be an example of how they stopped trying to compete with Sony (during the Gamecube day) and decided to focus on a different market and reinvented themselves with the WII.
They reinvented themselves with the Switch by bringing 2 markets together when ppl said that portable consoles were doomed thanks to cellphones and tablets.
Sony's business models also changed when they decided to port games to PC something that was never supposed to happen.
If Xbox exits a market (consoles) to focus on another (games) I guess I don't care anymore. They lost the console market and pretty much the same companies that have been there before making games are still there flying a different flag. If they suck, other companies will eat their lunch by making better games.
How's this guy still around. According to him consoles were dying after ps2, ps3 Era.
Analysts are never wrong, the market just had a swift change for which no one could account.
In his Gametrailers past I’ve found Pachter to be friendly and entertaining. However he’s always blindly predicted Xbox success even up to the start of this generation. Now Pachter has adopted and repeated the new terminology of Microsoft, that it hasn’t lost the console war, it just wants more business. This is illuminating because it suggest he, like Tom Warren at the Verge, is inline with Microsoft’s PR strategy.
He was the only person who completely nailed how the ABK court case would play out. When everyone said the deal was dead, he said no and stood firm and said MS would do exactly what they did.
Did everyone say the deal was dead?
Most analytics said it would go through, but be delayed, which actually was the case.
Thing is, if fanboys understood business, they wouldn't be wasting their time commenting on gaming websites.
And you are here to lecture the rest of us because you understand business and MS is doing great?
Technically Microsoft is doing great, it's just not in gaming, OS and software (e.g. Microsoft Office) is where they're doing great business. I can't think of many other ventures they've had that has worked out for them, despite resorting to some of the same tactics that made them the dominate OS for computers.
Microsoft own things like Microsoft Office and Windows, games are secondary to them. If Xbox shut down the computer company will be ok
They only way that plan works is if people still want to play in their ecosystem.
Eventually, they’re ecosystem needs more games.
Helldivers 2 could swing Xbots to ps6 if it isn’t countered by the end of the gen.
Supposedly some well known Halo modders will be making a mode similar to Helldivers.
https://gamerant.com/halo-i...
Without procedurally generated levels, they’ll face the same problem as Destiny: fighting the same enemies in the exact same arenas does get repetitive eventually.
Helldivers succeeds as a GaaS because of its unusually well implemented use of procedural level creation. That, paired with its fun enemies to kill, makes it a GaaS with a long lifespan.
There is a pretty good chance that those with XB also have PS, but not the other way around.
What kind of Jedi mind tricks do you have to come up with to get through your day?
What is the point of always having to lie or make shit up just to win? It's like cheating to win how can you feel like you accomplished something?
I haven't bought an Xbox since the 360 days, just stuck with PC and PS, sometimes Nintendo.
PlayStation dominated cloud gaming users throughout 2021, beating Microsoft's xCloud streaming by over 10%, but Xbox swings back at PlayStation in 2022.
“Good competition” is not something Microsoft offers often. You should want THEM to feel enough heat to actually do better.
Agree. I wish sony would be more afraid of gamepass to get better games on ps+
"You should want THEM to feel enough heat to actually do better."
Phil Spencer started to acquire studios back in 2018, after that, Xbox Studios only had 5 studios. Now Xbox has 23 almost 5x more studios. Not to mention third party exclusives like Flight Simulator, Contraband and Project Dragon.
Plus, unlike Sony, Xbox Studios won´t be distracted with things like VR, all of their first party efforts goes towards Xbox first and foremost.
Sony so can expect a much more robust Gamepass in terms of first party and third party exclusives games from Xbox from now on.
Since Sony have less studios and won´t release their games day one on PS+, they better make sure andl deliver high quality games like Ragnarok. Because so far, 2023 hadn´t started well for them with Forspoken.
https://www.videogameschron...
Sony spent millions to secure a AAA third party exclusive game build from the ground up for PS5, not to mention more millions spent on market to be outperformed by a AA game which costs less than half on Steam, had an EPIC day one surprise announcement AND release with ZERO money invested on promotion and marketing.
If that´s not good competition, I don´t know what it is.
"It isn’t."
Oh yes, it is. You can bet your life that both companies cares about their money and investments.
The simple fact that Sony continues to pay multiple publishers to keep games out of Xbox forever, is nothing but a reaction to Gamepass.
Imo, Sony now fears that once their timed-exclusive contracts ends, those games will be available on Gamepass the moment the said games hits the Xbox platforms.
Sony fears the scenario where gamers realize that it´s not worth to invest in every single game released on Playstation at full $70 once they´ll be getting it for "free" on Gamepass eventually, just like Yakuza, Dragon Quest, Octopath Traveler, Nino Kuni, Persona series and more.
ARK 2 (exclusive on Xbox consoles), S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2( exclusive on Xbox consoles), Flintlock, Wo Long, Atomic Hears, Lies of P, Eiyuden Chronicle, Hollow Knight: Silksong. Minecraft: Legends, MLB 23...
Those are just some of the games that Xbox players will be getting for "free" day one while Playstation gamers will have to pay for all of it.
So at least you´re rich or something, Xbox players will be getting way more NEW games to play than you. That´s just facts.
@Obscure_Observer
I can bet that one company brings actual competition, isn’t afraid to share losing numbers, and doesn’t buy huge publishers due to said weaknesses. That’s what I can bet.
As a fan of theirs, you should want them to do better and offer more than subscriptions services and unfulfilled promises.
@obscure. Well Sony can't control 3rd party games quality, but their 1st party certainly trounces MS's. Spiderman 2 is going to a absolutely dominate the holiday season, just like ragnarok did this past holiday season. Sony easily has the best gaming studios out of the big three. It's.not Sony who has to worry about their 1st part output, it is MS.
@Obscure: what AAA games would I buy an XsX today to play?
I own a ps5 and XsX, and I don’t know of one game that would have motivated me to buy an XsX ( I bought it to appease my dumb Xbot friends).
I bought a ps5 for Demon Souls (best looking game on consoles), Returnal (top 10 game of all time for me), and Dualsense upgrades for shooters (completely changes R6 for me).
So, can you illustrate how XsX is competing? I liked HiFi Rush a lot, High on Life too, but neither make we happy about the $500 I sunk into the hardware to play them.
Obscurer, you're saying an awful lot without talking much sense at all.
VR isn't a distraction, neither does it take games away from playstation. Sony have been building and harnessing studios just for this while working on their 1st party none VR titles.
Microsoft is fully committed to gamepass and that's fine for them and those that like to game that way. It will be an even better product if Microsoft can nail their 1st party games.
What I'd hate to see are more moves like the Activision and Bethesda purchases and attempts because it destroys the gaming ecosystem. I'd say the same for Sony as well because once the ball is rolling, they'll all start buying and diving gaming.
"I can bet that one company brings actual competition, isn’t afraid to share losing numbers, and doesn’t buy huge publishers due to said weaknesses. That’s what I can bet."
Unfortunately for you, MS or Nintendo aren´t forced to play by yours or Sony´s rules. Fyi, Sony used to buy publishers back in the day. The only reason they aren´t doing it now is simply because they can´t.
As it is, Sony already owns 14.09% of Kadokawa´s shares while Tencent acquired 16% of the company's shares, which means 1/3 of the entire company ownership.
The only reason why Tencent owns more than Sony is because Sony couldn´t pay more for it. So spare me from this "victim complex" bs defense for Sony.
Phil acted as the "nice guy" for too long. To the point where stupid fanboys were all happy when Xbox acquired new studios and publishers, because the idiots were under the illusion that all future Xbox games would become multiplatform and be released on Playstation.
Yeah, they were stupid to the point of thinking that MS would turn into a third party developer for Playstation.
Reality hits hard and here we are. Now that they KNOW those games aren´t coming to Playstation, all that they can do now is cry and moan over games paid and developed by Microsoft to not be on their platform of choice.
They think they´re entitled to have anything and everything otherwise it´s not good competition.
Phil Spencer won´t stop. Be the Activision/Blizzard deal approved or not, he can just go after a single studio like CDPR for example and you´ll be here crying all the same.
I don´t care if Sony or Nintendo buys SquareEnix, From Software or even SEGA tomorrow. Because I have no problem buying products from those companies if they have the games I want. I care about games first and foremost. So don´t expect me to be on your sad place complaining about big a$$ companies running their business as they see fit.
"You should want THEM to feel enough heat to actually do better."
But when they do attempt to do better ppl complain about it.
With the whole Bethesda thing. There was article on here not too long ago talking about how Bethesda investment will pay off for MS. The whole comment section everyone was whining about how MS was taking games away. So when MS competes everyone here complains on here. No matter what MS hurts feelings. It's quite funny actually.
@Lightning77
In other words, outside of publisher acquisitions, they have not really attempted to compete.
And "whining" happens on both sides, so I hope you are just as entertained when people bitch and moan about moves Sony makes.
Ps+ extra already has better games than gamepass. Just look at the highest scoring games...ps extra has more of them.
Lol. What a joke.
PS+ relies on old games. Gamepass not only has day one first party games but also day one third party as well. Even from Sony. XD
Exactly. “Day one” is a buzz word that makes these guys think they have a better line up but it has not amounted to much. If you look at what they have at any given time on their service its not that rosy. Not to mention “day one” also exists on PS plus just not for the first party AAA story games (which is fine w me as long as they continue making the hits).
Check out their list of day one releases for all the years they had gamepass. Its a joke.
@obscure
I'd take good old games then new Bad games. Besides that wasn't his point and that has nothing to do with what I claimed. The op said that they should offer better games but they already offer better games. He did not say new games. Or even New Quality games. But to your point, I know that game pass lovers do enjoy their day one bad or mediocre games. It's all about value with you guys and not quality
Some are going ape shit over Hi-Fi Rush but completely forgot about the Tokyo Wire dud the same developer last released. My point being there are hits and misses.
" It's all about value with you guys and not quality"
Lol. Your false narrative didn´t aged well.
All Metacritic scores for day one first party games
.
Ori and the Will of the Wisps 92 on Metacritic
Flight Simulator 90 on Metacritic
Forza Horizon 5 92 on Metacritic
Halo Infinite 87 on Metacritic
Grounded 85 on Metacritic
Pentiment 87 on Metacritic
Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition 87 on Metacritic
Hi-Fi Rush 88 on Metacritic
And that´s only from first party games/IPs on Xbox series consoles.
So much for your "quality vs quantity" BS narrative.
Oh, and we "Gamepass Lovers" also love old quality games as well. I also can give you a large list of high quality third party on Gamepass. Just ask. ;)
@Obscure_Observer… Forspoken was not a 1st party game from Sony nor should it be treated as such. Square Enix will comeback nicely with FFXVI I’m sure.
Besides Sony is entitled to some misses here and there because they actually take chances on new titles and release them regularly.
Bu the time Spiderman 2 releases everyone will have forgotten all about this terrible start you’re claiming.
They're so anxious to try to nail Sony on something that they'll even bring up third party developers not under Sony. Oh look this time's exclusive that wasn't developed by a Sony studio was bad so Sony doesn't know how to do good games.
"@Obscure_Observer… Forspoken was not a 1st party game from Sony nor should it be treated as such. Square Enix will comeback nicely with FFXVI I’m sure."
In no moment I said it´s a first party game. Both Forspoken and FFXVI are exclusive Playstation 5 games which Sony invested large sums of money to secure to their platform. Just like the original Spiderman from Insomniac. (which till this day Sony fans treat it like a first party/IP)
So it´s pretty obvious if the game fails, Sony also fails and loses tons of money which could had been invested on first party games.
"Besides Sony is entitled to some misses here and there because they actually take chances on new titles and release them regularly."
True.
"Bu the time Spiderman 2 releases everyone will have forgotten all about this terrible start you’re claiming."
Also true. The same can be said about FFXVI, imo.
"The leader, Nintendo, doesn’t care what the competition does."
Couldn´t agree more
The Switch is leading the PS5 because it launched three years prior. PS4 won last gen is all forms (money made, units sold, software totals).
No hate for Nintendo though, as they are another company who actually puts out quality games in high numbers, but just a little perspective.
“In 2022, Microsoft took the lead with 60-70% of total MAUs”
From 20-30% up to 60-70%? That’s some crazy growth. Probably thanks to Fortnite.
All the other stats dont matter. Especially the ones where ps is tearing xbox a new one
“In 2022, Microsoft took the lead with 60-70% of total MAUs”
Probably one of reasons why Sony won´t return Activision´s calls.
Oops, somebody didn't read the article.
This isn't a "YoY increase". It's market share, so we know they had 60-70% of the streaming market.
That’s why we game: to celebrate YoY growth!
Three cheers for first-party content-starving fueling third party max’s and subscriptions.
What a clickbait headline. Why mention 2021, when the tides turned in 2022 for the obvious reason of one company making the Cloud service one of their biggest marketing pushes throughout the entire year while the other company was able to promote the games they had coming out?
And it's imprudent to suggest crazy growth when we only know proportions - did Xbox grow its proportion by attracting from the competitors' bases, did their marketing pay off and attract new users, or did cloud gamers on competitors just not play as much? The MAU figures don't point to shifts as significant as the Cloud proportions do, and Microsoft's lack of raw subscriber numbers that they happily boasted about in 2021 is telling too.
Wedbush games industry analyst Michael Pachter weighs in.
But to a 100 million? Absolutely not I can realistically see 5 to 6 million within the year.
Pachter gets paid for making terrible predictions. Must be nice lmao.
Yea that’s unrealistic. Still the subscriber count is going to increase significantly when Activision/Blizzard games hit the service.
"skyrocket", that's highly doubtful you're not accounting for the fact that the majority of those people who are will download those games on gp already have gp.
I feel they will increase but there are people out there like me for instance that didnt really care for the games they made. Especially cod eh pass. Skyrocket though seems to be overstated.
It won't hit 100 million unless Ms cam produce high quality exclusives and release one every month
Better question is at what price point and subscription number will it become profitable for Ms because the more profit it makes the more resources Ms will allocate to make it grow
Recurring subscriptions is what most companies with services want. Believe it or not the reason so many of these companies want us to turn on the automatic payment is because they know a lot of people forget to turn it off. It's like gym membership they know only 40% of the people will use it while other 60% will keep paying in hopes of going one day
darthv72
Also you made a comment in the other story I forgot to reply to you but why are you paying $45 to renew when you can pay $26-28
There are always deals
This was the first time it renewed for 45, i will get other deals before it does it again.
Reality of the subscriber business model is regardless of the medium, and as Netflix is currently experiencing, they all have a user base ceiling. Is game pass good value, sure, but will it convert non-gamers into Xbox gamers, nope! Brand awareness and deals only reach so far and ultimately a gamer with the money to subscribe is most likely already a gamer.
Nintendo has the ability to turn non-gamers into gamers. The only game that has this ability in Microsoft’s arsenal is Minecraft.
No. Not even Nintendo can "magically" convert non-gamers. Sure as eff such can't be done by the likes of Uncharted or Halo. The best you're going to get is someone who wants to watch for the graphics and action, but sur as eff isn't paying upwards to a publisher desired $100+ per single game + DLC/MT much less a recurring sub.
And it the Bobby Koticks of the industry that need that drilled into their heads, not us.
Nintendo had the wii that brought non gamers. Thats it. Switch isnt bring in non gamers unless your talking about kids having their first system. My kids all have ps4s but we always have bought the newest nintendo console. Mainly for their first party games.
Also i dont feel like minecraft is gonna bring in non gamers. I just dont understand the comment.
Most adult gamers I know still see switch as a “kids” console and don’t own one. I only personally know 2 other adults who use one. So no, Nintendo doesn’t turn non gamers into gamers. They have issues just being seen as a worthwhile system currently with the new generation out.
I was a gamer, and gamed alot. Haven't lately, and got GamePass about 6 months ago, and I friggin love it. Love seeing some smaller indie games that I can play comfortably without worrying about sinking hundreds of hours into like I did when I was younger.
So yes, "non-gamers" will see incredible appeal in gamepass. So far, GamePass reminds me a bit of the good ol' Xbox Live Arcade days, and that's never a bad thing.
Havent lately but you were a gamer. How long is lately. You already admitted you were a gamer so you are not a non gamer even if you took a small break.
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How many xbone consoles did they sell last gen. Approx 50mill.
That's then the max they could hope to have in subscribers.
If there lucky. Very very lucky. As half Their fans jumped ship I rekon.
Which means there gonna have over 50 million subscribers. Sony fanboys have a knack for saying MS won't do X, Y, Z only for them to do X, Y, Z. You'd think you'd learn by now.
Gamepass is also on PC and streaming. Also Series X|S is outselling Xbox one so clearly they didn't lose half their fans.
Which in his reality means, the best thing since sliced bread!
I don't know though, isn't this a contridiction of a statement he made when they first started demoing PlayStation Now!? I could have sworn he said it was fantastic.
PS+ indicates otherwise.
Why is Pachter so famous? I mean seriously - why does he get so much attention? What did he do to be the Nostradamus of video games?
Pachter is a joke
oh the irony.. Pachter talking about something being a joke.