Notch: Windows 8 is "very, very bad for indie developers"

Markus "Notch" Persson, the creator of Minecraft and founder of Mojang, has echoed Valve and Blizzard on the negative repercussions of Windows 8 for developers.

[gamer7804]

Cmon guys, wait until MS releases info on that, its got windows 7 underneath. Worse case you have to pay to make yours a metro app like you have to do on apple's appstore, anything else could still run under the os.

[Fishy Fingers]

I'm sure there's more to it than just that, these guys will have preview builds (likely almost complete) of W8 and will be working to support it at launch (regardless what they say) so their opinions are based on experience, not guess work.

But it's often the case, especially with Gabe, they dismiss everything at first, but usually come round to it.

I quite like the look of W8, but I can't see me upgrading my W7 gaming PC anytime soon.

[nukeitall]

There have been a number of people voicing concern, but I'm frankly confused about what?

Nobody really says clearly what is so bad, just "it's bad"!

@Fishy Fingers:

Windows 8 is a lot faster in all the tasks I do, so why not use it for gaming as well?

It seems way more optimized for lower end hardware than Windows 7.

[Smkt]

don't know why notch and blizzard guy are upset with win8, but Gabe is probably worried about the Windows App store as that might become a direct competitor to Steam if Win8 gets popular.

[nukeitall]

That was my initial thought that the app store is a competitor to Valve, but now Blizzard and even Mojang says otherwise. Yet nobody clearly says why?

It sounds like they fear their lack of freedom, but to me nothing in Windows 8 stops them from running whatever software they are doing now and likely whatever they are planning.

So I would also like a clear answer to the fear!

[Letros]

Flamebait title, not even the original title. Reading the article, Notch throws a big "if" out there.

[humbleopinion]

Precisely. According to him Windows 8 will only be bad to developers *IF* it will be locked (like the console business). But why would Microsoft do this when openness is what gave them the huge market share they have today?

Valve and Blizzard have other concerns: If Microsoft seriously handles the game-marketplace business (and not like they handled it until now with GFW and similar crap), it might be a serious hit for other store fronts - and both Blizzard and Valve compete in that area. But as for the gamers themselves? more competition is always better.

[MWH]

what's going on here?! many devs are complaining.

[Moncole]

One 3 devs complained.
Gabe Newel
Notch
a guy from Blizzard

[JBSleek]

How could that possibly be true because of the Windows Store? Wouldn't that make the indie scene actually thrive and not falter due to it being easily accessible to all or is the real reason because you have to take a cut of your profits and give them to Microsoft?

That isn't particularly bad for indie developers but possibly bad for big names who don't want to either share the spotlight with other games on the store or pay the money.

[Smkt]

exactly... Valve knows that many indie devs would pick Windows store over Steam because of the potentially greater install base and the fact that both Valve and MS charge will charge the same.

Apart from that I don't think MS is actually preventing developers from developing for Win8.. just that now they have their own OPTIONAL distribution channel which the Devs can pay for if they want to use OR they can just use their own method i.e their own site or physical media.

[Somebody]

The indie devs who were swooned by XBLA got a harsh reality check when there's barely any promotion about their products and the long certification process.

Windows 8 will have XBLA handle the gaming portion-the very thing that made most XBLA indie devs branch out to Steam.

[Smkt]

true.. which will lead to devs avoiding the win8store if its crap and using better alternatives.

That is unless MS doesn't lock the OS with the Win8Store being the only place where users can get software from, in which case win8 will turn out to be vista 2.0
The best thing about windows is the wide range of applications available for almost anything you may want to do. MS will be retarded if they take that away.

also I'm not liking the new Metro UI, good thing the classic desktop is still there, hopefully there will an option to disable the new UI or at least someone will mod it

[Somebody]

@Smkt
Yeah. We'll still have to see when Windows 8 comes out to get/give the final judgement. I'm just not uncomfortable with MS ever since it shifted focus towards the X Box and cared almost nothing for the PC. The only times MS praised the PC is when it needed them to sell Windows Vista, 7 and now 8. Other than that it's all about X Box. Even the 360 gets the latest MS-designed hardware such as the Kinect and Smart Glass. The PC...has yet to see any of those apart from a few researchers playing around with them. Surface is a tablet - a stand alone product that is actually in competition with the traditional PC concept.

By making the Metro (optimized for mobile devices) as the default UI for Win 8 while the classic Windows UI as an option that you have to look for...I guess I'll still be uncomfortable with MS.

[BuffMordecai]

You're tearing me apart Windows 8!

[finite]

Steam = are just shitting themselves as Microsoft are now fully implementing their Marketplace into mobile, pc and console and they are worried that their market share will go down the pan. Apple have done the same as well and steam dont care as much as they do not have such a huge market share in that area.

Notch is one indie with one game Minecraft not exactly someone I would even care to listen to regardless that he has sold a few million copies of the game.

And one guy from blizzard is not going to change anything when it comes to blizzards gaming releases.

Windows 8 main difference is metro ui and no start menus... windows 7 desktop is still their, of coarse with Microsoft's marketplace being fully implemented was going to happen at some point as it is there own product.

[ChickeyCantor]

"Windows 8 main difference is metro ui and no start menus..."

It's not about looks. It's about policies that might be enforced towards developers. Policies that will screw these developers over.

Whether Notch created one successful game or not, doesn't mean he has no idea what he is talking about.

Your way of thinking is ridiculous.

http://www.giantbomb.com/ne...

Here is a clear issue about Metros store.

[finite]

“XNA Game Studio remains the premier tool for developing compelling games for both Xbox LIVE Indie Games and Windows Phone 7; more than 70 Xbox LIVE games on Windows Phone and more than 2000 published Xbox LIVE Indie Games have used this technology. While the XNA Game Studio framework will not be compatible with Metro style games, Windows 8 offers game developers the choice to develop games in the language they are most comfortable with and at the complexity level they desire. If you want to program in managed C#, you can. If you want to write directly to DirectX in C++, you can. Or if you want the ease of use, flexibility, and broad reach of HTML and Javascript, you can use that as well. Additionally, the Windows 8 Store offers the same experience as the current App Hub marketplace for XNA Game Studio, providing a large distribution base for independent and community game developers around the world.”

[attilayavuzer]

@finite

All that flexibility...so brutal. How will developers cope?

[ChickeyCantor]

You missed the bit where it says that games not developed with the metro framework but XNA will not be directly visible to the consumer.

This isn't good as they are trying to promote metro. XNA is not the primary development framework for metro. Just because you can program in C# doesn't mean the framework is compatible.

I don't think you even understand what you are talking about.

"additionally, the Windows 8 Store offers the same experience as the current App Hub "

They are talking about the "experience" they never said anything about legacy support for metro.

XNA/other games will run on it, it is just not directly visible to the average consumer because Metro is the highlight and standard for home-users.

[chand17]

how is this i valid statement, what platform do indie game developers do the best? IOS that's because of the app store witch makes it easy to find games. What is windows 8 bringing oh that's right a freaking app store.

[kevnb]

IOS is nothing compared to windows.

[kevnb]

I hope windows 8 fails hard, we've already seen what kind of damage Microsoft can do albeit in a much smaller scale.

[sriki007]

m sticking with windows 7 thanks. Its pretty good.

[KMCROC54]

Then don't use the FK THING continue to use WIN7.
but stop trying to bad mouth something cause two other POS said something ,besides have you even used it thoroughly to even complain or are you just licking someone else twig's & berries .

[jeromeface]

Has anyone noticed that not one developer has had anything good to say about windows 8... I'll be sticking with 7... thx

[aliengmr]

While I think "catastrophe" is a bit strong, I believe there are valid concerns. What worries me is MS trying to turn the PC into its 2nd console. GFWL was a small step in that direction, but it failed. They may not try to lockdown the PC but I am concerned they might try it.

[Qrphe]

Not going for Windows 8 on PC, it has worked great on my tablet but it'd be awful on my desktop.