Even in Japan, 360 still holds highest attach rate

Only Famitsu and Media Create numbers will be used, and every title will receive the benefit of the doubt. In other words, the sales total for a title will be whichever firm tracks it higher.

Nintendo Wii:
Hardware = 3,945,429 through Dec 2/07 (MC)
Tie Ratio = 2.60

Sony PS3:
Hardware = 1,440,642 Through Nov 25/07
Tie Ratio = 1.95

Microsoft X360:
Hardware = 509,314 through Nov 25/07
Tie Ratio = 3.93

[Tommie]

Xbox 360 = Software king

[TANOD]

when it is selling well only in NA in terms of hardwares

at the end hardware sales determine the winner of a war NOT THE SOFTWARE sales

x360 couldnt even sell 500 000 units in 2 years in Japan

[stunt213]

thats pretty good then for 360

[PS3PCFTW]

hilarious!!

i see xbots went into "antifailure" mode......... AGAIN

surprise surprise, there ARE xbots in japan.
mostly americans that moved there.

title should read
"even in japan x360 still holds highest hardware failure rates"

ha

[Hugh Hefner]

Sony and Microsoft make money not by selling hardware, but by selling software. In fact, sony still loses money on every PS3 sold, not the same case with MS and the Xbox 360.

[PS3n360]

WTF? that is totally untrue. Whoever makes the most money wins the war. Guess where Sony and MS make their money. Hint They lose money on every console sold and make that money back in software sales. Therefore Higher attach rate = more profit = winner. The scary part is that if the PS3 attach rate stays this low for the entire life cycle developers are going to bail. I dont know whats up with people that dont buy games. I have had my PS3 for less than a week and I have 3 games already and going to get at least 2 more by month end. BUY some damn games people!!!

[Percy]

xbox360............. 509314 * 3.93 = 2001604.2
PS3.................1440642 * 1.93 = 2809251.9

So who has sold more software math sucks.

[tomfoolery]

Oh sorry,Sony doesn't have any balls.
Game developers must be Mcluvin the 360 ,woot woot!

Hey,I heard tell that certain Sonyboys on this site are starting to
jump ship to a real GAMING console(the 360).
Don't want to mention their names,but GOOD for them!

Welcome aboard my new brothers and little sisters,I forgive you.
You won't regret your decisions on moving to higher levels of
gaming bliss and brighter horizons.
See yas on Xlive.

[ruibing]

The 360's best decision was in securing those Japanese (hopefully just timed) exclusives and Mistwalkers studio, which gave them titles like Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata, Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Beautiful Katamarii, and Lost Odyssey.

It's amazing what some money and a year of head starts can do for attach rate, though no so much for actual hardware/software sales. Up until now, there have been more games on the 360 and almost every cross platformers usually end up having been available for the 360 longer.

But if we look at a recent release simultaneous of Dynasty Warriors 6, a real favorite there as well as a personal. We see a different trend:

280,559 (PS3) vs 36,863 (360)

There are different explanations, such as people who bought 360 like western games, but it's just something to keep in mind when comparing total software sales for two years versus one year.

@tomfoolery
If you are talking about the "PS3 LIMPS ON" guy, he has switched many times in the past.

@JokesOnYou
I double checked on Kotaku, and you were right about Assassin's Creed being released for only the 360 so far.

[JokesOnYou]

Assassins Creed was released for the ps3 in Japan=

JOY

[vgn24]

In you fun little number breakdown there, you forgot to factor in hardware loss. If PS3 is losing much more money per unit sold than 360 which is now losing almost nothing per unit sold, then MS has made the most money of the two in the region.

I'm just going to sit back, point and giggle now.

[hardcorehippiez]

good one haha shame it cant be said about their hardware. only thing stopping me from getting another 1 .

[MANTIIS]

Its you ppl that cling to this fiction, that 360 has the "best games, " that are hilarious. Maybe "more" games, but I'm betting that PS3's almost 200 game library can weed out a lot of the garbage that qualifies as "most games" for the 360, and match "quality" games pound for pound. This will hold even more true in '08. It is funny to think how long the Xbots will cling to this redundant concept (360=best games), when in 2009 esteemed analysts predict a major decline in the 360, where PS3 surpasses it http://www.joystiq.com/2007...

I hope you Xbots save this page so we can maniacally laugh at your feeble arses when it eventually happens. My prediction, M$ will eventually drop out of the console business.

[Percy]

This has nothing to do with hardware or profits this is simply who sells the most software and if we are to assume that those attachment rates are correct than we should be able to multiply them and come up with a round about number of software units sold.

[bennyace]

That PS3 exclusives are 'Rent Only' material???
Looks like it !!!
Or maybe it means that PS3 fanboys prefer quality over quantity, as they say, but didn't care when the PS2 was in it's prime and had a ton of crappy games, and they're still waiting for the quality games to comes out!!!

[UnblessedSoul]

Because people buy all the bargain bin games when they become cheap for ms points by unlocking achievements nothing new

[Lex Luthor]

You do realise Uncharted and R&C sunk without a trace in Japan.
They even tried to give Ratchet japanese eyebrows and it still failed.
Halo 3 has outsold both games in japan.

[Bladestar]

lol... thats funny... I hope developers keep in mind that how many consoles sony sells means $h!t for them... but the ability of a console to deliver their games to the right demographic.. not a bunch of movie lovers...

@UnblessedSoul - how does that change anything? specially for developers?

[Vertius]

The 360's been out for two years, it's expected to have sold more software, especially considering the RPGs that've been released in recent months.

Expect a difference when MGS4 and FFXIII are released.

[rofldings]

What are you talking about? The attach ratio is so damn high is because it includes 2 years of sales + only 500,000 units. Obviously the tie ratio will be high when the total consoles sold is only 500k.

example:

Console A: 2,200,000 / 1,440,642 = 1.53 tie ratio

Console B: 1,100,000 / 500,000 = 2.2 tie ratio

Sure, the ratio is higher on console B, but console A moved double the games.

[ruibing]

Rather than compare different titles, I think we should compare cross-platformers released on the same date for both platforms. This is because certain titles such, as Enchanted Arms and NFS Carbon, were released almost a year ealier on the PS3 platform.

[season007]

Nintendo Wii , 1 year=2.6
Sony PS3, 1 year= 1.95
Microsoft Xbox360, 1 year = 3.93/2=1.965

o wait....1% attachment rate over PS3, and you are pround of it considering 1% can be ignored in an estimation....

[jaja1434]

I see what you did with your math there, but thats not really how it works...

[paracardium]

lol I can't believe I just wasted my time reading this :(.

[Boink]

and even funnier that you wasted more time writing about something that's a waste of your time

[jaja1434]

I giggled.

[uxo22]

That was beautiful! My My, timing is everything...lol

[SDFm3rc]

it looks as though the writing is on the wall for Sonys console.

If the Xbox 360 is proving dominant over the PS3 in software sales in Japan, then it looks like the PlayStation 3 brand on a whole, is in a world full of sh!t.

I'm going to try and sell my PS3 as soon as possible, either on ebay or craiglist. I suggest any other disgruntled PS3 owners to do the same. Show Sony that we won't put up with an incompotent and shoddy gaming console, disguised as a Blu-ray player.

[Kholinar]

Wow... I hope you're being sarcastic.

Wii= 10,258,115 Titles sold

PS3= 2,809,252 Titles sold

X360= 2,001,604 Titles sold

So, even straight across the numbers are 30% higher. This doesn't take into account TWO YEARS of sales for the 360 vs. ONE YEAR of Wii and PS3.

These attach rates are not indicative of anything at the moment. If it continues past the second year it'll be bad for the wii and ps3, but if the 360 doesn't sell many more units it's still a non-entity.

[ry-guy]

The attach rate is indicative of what people are using their consoles for.

I am really hoping one day Sony releases the raw data on what people do with the PS3. You know they have to be logging how much time you're playing X, Y, and Z games and how much time you're watching Blu-Ray discs vs. regular DVDs.

Xbox has said that people use their console dominantly for gaming, not as a media center. Makes sense.

This attach rate tells us that PS3 owners are not purchasing the amounts of software they should be. It shows that people are purchasing their PS3 for other purposes (gasp! BluRay anyone?).

[uxo22]

you guys spin this two years to one year stuff way too much. Yet in a heart beat someone would say how the PS2 is killing the 360. Does the head start not matter in that case?

Additionally, people in the past has said that the 360's attach rate in the US is bigger because the US has a bigger fanbase. (Which really has nothing to do with the percentages of attach rates.) Yet no one wants to give the 360 credit in japan for having a bigger attach rate with a smaller fanbase. What gives?

Some of you guys should take jobs as spin doctors.

[KingME]

yep, they call that "being in denial"

[Kholinar]

" It never ends you guys spin this two years to one year stuff way too much. Yet in a heart beat someone would say how the PS2 is killing the 360. Does the head start not matter in that case?

Additionally, people in the past has said that the 360's attach rate in the US is bigger because the US has a bigger fanbase. (Which really has nothing to do with the percentages of attach rates.) Yet no one wants to give the 360 credit in japan for having a bigger attach rate with a smaller fanbase. What gives?

Some of you guys should take jobs as spin doctors."

So you think these numbers aren't spin? Wow.

Of course, the two years matter in a positive way for the 360. It's allowed them to have a massive headstart on the ps3. You can't spin that. You also can't spin a console with 1/6 the rate of growth. Lets say that the 360 jumps up to 2 million by next year. That means that the ps3 at equivalent growth rate would have almost 11 million consoles, which would have them selling 3 times the software instead of 1.3 times the software. Double that to 4 million xbox's and we see the ps3 selling 4 times the software. Each time the ps3 doubles they outsell the 360 by 1 more multiplier. Granted the 360 only needs to grow somewhat to make that a lot closer, but there's no indication of that happening. The ps3 could just as easily increase their attach rate as well.

Losing consoles very often have high attach rates when they bomb. The dreamcast, for example, has astronomical attach rates. For the 360 in Japan it's already over, IMO.

Now, in the rest of the world I agree with you. The attach rate is a major strength for the 360 and may ultimately win things for them. I don't think these stats are indicative though, because you could take the first .5 million wii and ps3 owners in Japan and I believe you'd see similar rates.

[Kholinar]

"yep, they call that "being in denial""

KingME, I'm honestly curious, do you believe then that the 360 has a reasonable chance of winning in Japan?

[man0fsteel]

prove that u have a PS3 with a saluted photo... i'm growing tired of some of these people that claim to have a system and knock it down.

if i'm wrong, the fault is on me

[SDFm3rc]

it looks as though the writing is on the wall for Sonys console.

If the Xbox 360 is proving dominant over the PS3 in software sales in Japan, then it looks like the PlayStation 3 brand on a whole, is in a world full of sh!t.

I'm going to try and sell my PS3 as soon as possible, either on ebay or craiglist. I suggest any other disgruntled PS3 owners to do the same. Show Sony that we won't put up with an incompotent and shoddy gaming console, disguised as a Blu-ray player.

[lonestarmt]

haha if you really have a ps3 why? there is still great games coming down the line to match some good ones that came out this holiday season. Plus no 360 software isn't out selling ps3 software, its attach rate, meaning when they buy the system how many games do they buy with it. You should be just as mad at Microsoft for rushing 360 hardware and a 30% failure rate and low disc space as sony's lack of software its first two quarters. You won't want to miss fall of man 2, god of war 3, MGS 4, and final fantasy would you???

[Ri0tSquad]

Because of this I'm just gonna sell my ps3 and all my games. That I'll show sure show Sony who's boss.
What wonderful ideas you come up with. I bet if I listen to you more often I'll come up with some just as good.

(end sarcasm)

[General Pinky]

good feedback coming your way mate..

[Anything but Cute]

Even in Japan, the few who do buy it buy it because they simply want the best gaming experience on the market.

360 = games 100%

[power of Green]

Actually the 360 is ahead in sales in parts of Europe and other markets not just NA.

Only in Japan can software sales not effect a console's success. In all the other markets theres no hope of a console winning the war when it comes to software sales garnering dev support for a console hence the more support a console has the better off it is due to consumers support...

Its too bad the Japanese 360 backers are a niche market *yet still have the same habbits as westerners* to make a difference. Jananese 360 gamers are more than likely the type of people that try new things and are more open to new things.

[TANOD]

PS3 outsells x360 in EUROPE and JAPAN

The only place 360 offers some restraint is NA but for how long?

x360's biggest gun has been brandished . On the other hand ps3's big guns are all due in 2008

FF13,GT5,MGS4 ---those 3 games alone would sell million ps3s in each of Japan and EUROPE

as for EU sales charts right here

www.vgcharts.org/ehweekly

[caffman]

Just can't get the hint can you?

[marc 1975]

in japan only a few people know there games..and them people own a xbox... look at what the xbox has so many games which are quality..

[name]

Maybe because the 360's only use is games? When people buy a PS3 they could be buying it for blu ray or w/e else. When people buy the wii they could be casual. Obviously the attach rate is higher. What other reason is there to buy a 360? Night light?

[kurochi]

no.... paper-weight......
oh wait, a bionic-filter for dust.... ah.....ugh... nevermind.... I stopped trying after my 2nd experience in sending my 360 back. I actually like some of the games on there, GOW, Halo 2 (not 3), I'm a little turned off by Mass E., but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt until I soak my fingers in a little while longer..... Right now, I'm too busy playing Uncharted.... COD 4 is my next game on the 360, as long as the 360 doesn't crap out from RROD...... I'm really sick of the lousy machine that I got stuck with.... :S

[wageslave]

Huh? Xbox LIVE? XBL Arcade? A proper hobby development environment via XNA? Marketplace TV, Movie (in HD(!)) downloads? Windows Media Center Extender? Xbox Originals download. Universal in-game Guide. LIVE Messenger. IPTV. TV attached multi-media center (via attached MP3/USB-HD?)?

Never mind that Xbox 360 *can* attach a HD-DVD player...

OUTSIDE of the fact that it has the best library of games (by far, with no reason to expect that to change), The Xbox 360 is the most versitile Living Room Entertaiment Center console.

Why are you suggesting otherwise?

[kurochi]

hey 12.2:

If I wanted all that stuff that you so proud-fully mentioned, I'd get a nice PC that does all that w/o all the clunky add-on. You get my drift? What you're saying just validated what Sony fanboys has been saying all along. All the games aren't true exclusives.... what you get on 360, you can get mostly on PC also. Plus all the add-ons just points out to the deficiencies that the 360 have. Stop talking before I start hating my 360, alright?

[Bombomb]

surprising...Software is king

[R M Spender]

big trouble in little china, just like me.

[SUPER360RPGWONDER]

I hope it does become more popular in Japan, because that's where everyone is buying the games like crazy!!!!

This is something that can't be ignored by developers, holy moly the attach ratio is even lower then that of the PS2 which was low to begin with!!!!!!!!

Yikes!!!!!!! I expect alots more 360 games to be coming, given the results that keep on forecasting & likely by the dozens.

[BIoodmask]

the Xbox 360 is where game developers and publishers will see a good return on their investment. With an attach rate of over 6 games per console sold the 360 is the console of choice for companies that want to see huge profit on next gen games.

It is funny that the Sony fanboys on this site say that Sony has won the Bluray vs. HD DVD battle because of dominant software sales.

But they will not apply that same logic when it comes to software sales for consoles.

[Meus Renaissance]

You're certainly right with the logic. However, the format wars in terms of software sales are different in the sense that a winner must be chosen soon, or, any prolonged show of domination from either format (like Blu-Ray now for example) will entice studios to go with that format exclusively, and consequently end the wars altogether.

With the video games industry, in 2008 anyway, there are certain franchises that could change the scope of things. I know people love to make fun of the "wait till then" excuse used, but I think its somewhat justified in this example of 2008 and the games to be released on Sony's platform.

I personally believe a winner will be recognised this time next year, because by then, both would have played their Ace's. It'd be up the consumer then to decide whether or not they want a PlayStation 3 (if the wait was worth it) or if they'd just Jump In.

So there is a reason why some will not apply that logic of yours. It is not because it is wrong, but because there are variations that could change the outcome and these "variations" are the games, like you mentioned, that will be released. If those big franchises do not sell well, and do not move significant hardware, then we've all got the answer and publishers/developers will make their moves consequently.

[BloodySinner]

Don't try to spin it. The point Bloodmask made is that the Xbox 360 is the best choice for any developer (AND gamers because there is a huge library of games) if they want to see a profit. Why? Because we BUY games. Plain and simple.

[Bombomb]

so Sony always looks good.

Sony is very good at doing the same, as well as it's fanboy kids.

Same could be said at one point when the Xbox came out with better Graphics but the PS2 still beat it, which had a tad weaker graphics, but now that the PS3 is out, it's all about the graphics.

We all know Profit is made on Sales so this is good for MS eventho Japan are not his kids..hehe They have a different Baby daddies, sony and nintendo and one of them is not doing so great.

[Meus Renaissance]

I wasn't spinning anything - in fact, show me one line where I lied or exaggerated or downplayed one thing? I was responding to Bloodmask, not you, but seeing as you're interested my point was that the console wars is not over, and that the future sales of the PLAYSTATION 3 will mainly determine its fate. What sales hardware are big franchise games. If that does not help, then the war is over.

But naturally you're the type that doesn't want to read anything potentially suggesting that Sony's PLAYSTATION 3 may not die. So just ignore my comments in the future then.

[Primetimebt]

<<It is funny that the Sony fanboys on this site say that Sony has won the Bluray vs. HD DVD battle because of dominant software sales.>>

There is total difference and that weather you like to admit it or not there are more blu ray players in the market than hd dvd and yes the ps3 is the best choice for anyone thinking of going hi def because somehow if it does happen to fail it still plays games. *Take Notes*

Attach rates don't mean sh*t! Mircosoft tried to play the same card last generation and everyone knew how that turned out, and I believe I even gave you (bloodmask) a link to where mircosoft was bragging about there higher attach rate. It all comes down to who can move the most console or get the bigger install base and by the looks of worldwide sales chart it looks like the 360 has hit it's peak.

[MANTIIS]

Why is everybody ignoring the point that at few of the more intelligent gamers here have already realized?...that the one year jump 360 has on the PS3 has something to do here? When taken into consideration, we're babbling about a 1% 360 advantage. Hardly the fodder to brag about. Many ppl here want to use this data as a tool to brag along the same lines as if it were as significant as hardware sales, where, incidentally, the 360 is getting spanked. It is true, as Meus said, that this will all change with the introduction of more AAA and franchise titles. GT is not called "the billion dollar franchise" for nothing. When that happens this article can be allocated to the realm of obsolesce, as its wholly there already.

[jackdoe]

In all honesty, attach rate means sh!t when your console hasn't broken a million units.

[SUPER360RPGWONDER]

All profits come from software sales, even when you don't or do take a loss on hardware.

The higher the software the greater the return!!!!

Plus on top of that, if it didn't matter Blue Dragon wouldn't have sold 210,000 units, Lost Planet about 90,000, Gears of War 89,000, Halo 3 nearly 100,000 do you see where that is going buddy?

And this is in Japan, the place where it is mostly DEAD LAST place too!!!!

You are just being foolish. :)

[jackdoe]

How? Attach rate means the percent of consoles that buy a game. Obviously a larger percent of a smaller number is not good. For instance, 30% out of 500,000 is still less than 20% of 1,000,000. But a 30% attach rate is larger than a 20% rate. Simple math. Jeez. Can't even figure that one out.

[greenenvy]

..developers would rather develop for an all games machine, and take their chances selling 80-100,000 copies of a game on a userbase of 500-600,000 people who are all gamers that buy games like crazy....

.....then take their ***** chances developing on a userbase of 1-2 million, that barely ever buy games, and only purchase a million copies of games like final fantasy....

.....oh and on top of that, the base for the 360 will buy 80% of the copies of star ocean....maybe even 350,000 copies, because they buy more games to begin with. >D

plus, they buy more than one.....so if they buy halo, or something else like lost planet colonies, they buy more than one game hence a userbase of 550,000 can quickly equal 1,000,000 copies of that game sold and also quicker...

plus all the so called "niche" titles will sell out, while looking at the figures, crap like EA games/mini golf will sell less than 10k each....

[jackdoe]

Greenenvy,
Lost Planet sold pitifully in Japan. That's why they are porting it to the PS3. In order to establish it as a franchise over there.

[SUPER360RPGWONDER]

Lost Planet sold higher on 360 even in Japan, than it probably will for PS3 too!!!!

Remember Enchanted Arms? Enchanted Arms sales on PS3 were many times lower!!!!!

Lost Planet is a niche type of game which much of the 360 userbase will pick up as time goes on in Japan, yet elsewhere, it will continue to sell nothing. So of course it matters!!!!

You were wrong again, the attach ratio is highest even after being out equal time to the Wii! )

[Bnet343]

but is the headline wrong or something? I'm asking because this kind of boggles my mind. So is this true or what?

[Bnet343]

why are people agreeing and disagreeing? LOL people here are stupid, I asked question, and ... lol wow this is seriously just retarded right now. XD

[Meus Renaissance]

It's a surprising fact, and its more of a negative fact for Sony than it is a positive for Microsoft. But I'm just wondering how this equates to the dynamics of that market changing to put the Xbox 360 in a position to outsell Sony?

Software sales, the PlayStation 3 is hopping along with half a limb this year. I'd really like to see a comparison done with the PS2 in terms of software/hardware sales ratio.

This story just outlines, not just that the 360 is a software king, but more so how poorly Sony is doing when you consider that this is Japan. It's one thing for software sales to be poor in Europe and North America, but in a market where you are selling upto x10times more hardware than your opponent, how can you deal with the fact that they're still selling more games than you are (per console)?

[jackdoe]

Selling more games per console, but when you add up all the games sold in the end, the PS3 sales still come out on top because of the larger install base. Because in the end, attach rate is a ratio. That is all it is. Hard cold sales figures are not going to be as kind to 360 software sales in Japan.

[allforcalisto]

if the majority of japanese gamers wanted 360's the 360 wouldnt be selling 7,000 a week or so.

What's clearly evident here is the strength of the 360's library. by mid 08 the ps3 and 360 will be neck n neck in terms of software that has a wide appeal i reckon. I think the ps3 has great titles, but the 360 has more. That' not me saying i like the 360 titles more, just me being objective and looking at the number of titles and how they are received

what shouldnt be forgotten as well is the sheer number of 360's titles.

I find it pretty cool how hardcore the guys who are buying 360 games over there are. It's gonna suck for them if microsoft gives up on japan.

EDIT
lol @ the disagrees
what did i do this time ^__^

[wageslave]

"microsoft give up on japan"

What on _earth_ would lead you to even remotely consider this? You clearly dont pay attention to the way Microsoft works. They are -relentless- innovators. They go on and on and on, they dont abandon markets, they create new ones or out-compete in markets they enter.

It happens over and over again. Inspite of all the misinformed and reactionary rhetoric about Microsoft, "quitter" isnt something they are often accused of.

MS quite Japan? No, I expect MS to react to the turning in the Japanese market taste; move from console to portable gaming is taking place there... I expect them to turn up the heat witha handheld-gaming play.

Will it be Zune Game? Xbox Portable? An "open-hardware-platform&q uot; Windows Mobile Gaming move?

I dont know, but expect MS to do *MORE* in Japan, not less.

[allforcalisto]

"I find it pretty cool how hardcore the guys who are buying 360 games over there are. It's gonna suck for them if microsoft gives up on japan."

Don't cut down that bit of text into this "microsoft give up on japan" and not expect people to brand you an inane fanboy.

when i wrote "give up", i didnt mean microsoft would pack their bags and just leave japan, and i think you even knew that; you just wanted to rant.

I'll elaborate; for instance i can imagine microsoft putting their money on other jrpgs devs other than squeenix in order to fight FFXIII's(mistwalker, tri ace, etc) instead of coughing out serious yen for an exclusive squeenix FF13 game.

i'm well aware of FF last remnant, but unlike many dumbass xbots i'm mindful of the big fact that its a multiplat; and consequently its wanted a lot more on the ps3(check famitsu's most wanted). Oh yeah and Squeenix aren't developing Infinite undiscovery; they're publishing it.

check the polls every big multiplat is wanted on the ps3, not 360.

microsoft need konami and square to win japan or for one of their studios to make exclusive system sellers in japan.

[theoneandonly]

Tell Sony to stop forcing Konami to suck them off then, so that M$ can get a Metal Gear Solid Online game and RPG exclusive to 360.

Then you'll see Sony have the biggest competition they've ever had in Japan.... (and Nintendo doesn't count since they are all casual)

Since MS Japan is already working great with NAMCO, they need to lock down Ace Combat games and Idol Master plus an RPG as exclusive. Have those games and you have system seller.

Oh and as for your RPG reference, Mystwalker and MS can make some great games. And MS & tri-Ace are already very close, I'm beginning to think the game you are referring to would be Star Ocean.....

MS can turn that into a system seller easily, and they have the base to prove it.

[CrazzyMan]

Come on, 2 years have passed.
PS3 already outselling it by 3 times.

[Hugh Hefner]

Too bad the PS3 is outsold by the 360 almost 4 to 1 in NA, a way larger market than Japan.

[CrazzyMan]

yeah, BUT x360 had for that ONE year and LOWER price, Nothing unusual here. =)
still FAILED in Japan to do THAT.

It`s more like 3 to 1 in USA. Second, if You don`t care about Japanese games..
FINE with you, GO and play your FPS and Action games. =))

p.s. though i wonder, how will do x360 in usa after 2008. FUNNY, but after 2008, ps3 will have MORE proved exclusive AAA Brand tittles, then x360.
x360 has only ONE exclusive halo3, and 2 multiplatform: bioshock+geow. That`s all Big AAA Brand games.
PS3 will get MGS4, GT5, FFXIII, and probably KZ2(same effect as geow).

[goodganja44]

ATTACH RATIO DONT MEAN SHIET TO ME.

How bout I attach my foot up you BOTS @ss for spewing out this nonsense garbage.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[eagle21]

Is Japan In Love With The 360? (short answer: hell no)

If they saw 5 gamers buying the only 5 copies shipped of a 360 game....

360 Games Sell Out in Japan, are the Tides Turning? (short answer: hell no)

They sure didn't buy Dragon Warriors on 360, PS3 won those sales. I wonder why..Maybe because most 360 owners in Japan have PS3's as well. Face it, PS3 owners in every territory want the best games. 2008 is the booom in everything Playstation 3...EVERYTHING.

[titntin]

That the 360 has sold more games per unit in all territories is to be applauded,but there ARE several factors that are too big to be ignored when considering numbers..

The fact that it has been out twice as long as the competitive products does make a big difference. If you've had a machine for two years you are likely to have bought more games for it than for a machine you have owned for one year. I've had a PS2 for 7 years and have no doubt bought 60 + titles for it, length of time on the market obviously has a big say in attachement rates - anyone denying this is living in cloud cookoo land!:)

It also helps of course that the machine is very games focused - no one will have bought the 360 primarilly as a media server and no one will have bought it as a movie player.
It also helps that the format has has some great games - if you wanted great next gen games in the last couple of years, the 360 was the place to get them.

..but please, don't pretend that time on the market doesn't drastically affect attach rates. I'm sure the 360 attach rates are higher for the above reasons, but not by much and the numbers given are not directly comparible. People trying to pretend they are ,obviously have a format political agenda...

[Hugh Hefner]

360s had a high attach ratio ever since it launched, so your "oh but its been out longer" point is moot. I blame the 360's high attach ratio to Achievements and Xbox Live... especially the former has a lot to do with people buying games.

[Bill Gates]

M$ holds the biggest attach rate because ALL the games SUCK. Therefor owners keep buying games HOPING that they'll get a good one.....AHAHAAHAHAHAHA

[power of Green]

PS3's overall European lead is shrinking by thousands a week
Don't let the PS3 Xmas sales boost fool you in thinking theres some sort of long term trend going on. Xbox is winning the key markets in Europe.

[chrno6]

Of course MS has the highest attached rate in Japan. When you sell 2 consoles and 1 peice of software, u get a 50% of attached rate. lol

[wageslave]

someone doesnt understand what "attach rate" means. And, is making unfunny jokes.

[Lumbo]

Unlike you, wageslave, he understood perfectly well what attach rate is.

Attach rate in console business is the number of games sold compared to the number of consoles sold

Sell 10 consoles and 10 games and you get an attach rate of 1.
Sell 1 console and 10 games and you get an attach rate of 10.

The Dreamcast, a well known FAILED system (which i own btw and i liked it very much), has a very high attach rate cause people kept on buying games when the system itself had already bombed. So low hardware sales pushed up the attach rate.

A raw, unweighted "high attachment rate" is nothing a sane business would follow. It is always the attachment rate compared to the overall hardware sales.

Naturally if you sold 2M systems and 7.8M games you would get an attachment rate of 3.9 and considering that you sold well on the hardware front you would be very happy with that rates.

But if you sold only 1k systems and 3.9k games you are on quite a different boat. In that case your system failed to catch the consumers interest and your business is doomed in the long run cause the growth is way to low.

The Xbox360 sold 500k units in 2 years to the Japan market. And sold less than 2M units of software in total in that time.

The Wii sold 4M units of hardware in HALF the time and sold over 11M units of software. Sure the Wii has a lower attach rate than the Xbox360, but you have to be a complete idiot to believe that the attach rate suggests that that the Xbox360 does better business in Japan than the Wii. Just look at the numbers, 11.4 million games in one year compared to 1.9 million games in TWO years for the Xbox360. Thats not good for the Xbox360, that attach rate shows that the Japan market has dropped the Xbox360 already and now only software sells to the already existing customers.

with an average of not even 5k sold units a week compared to the competition that had 26k units/week (PS3) and 75k units/week (Wii) in average from the beginning of sales there is no basis for your business. With the Wii you could claim that its cheaper than the Xbox360 and therefor got higher sales. But the PS3 is clearly more expensive than the Xbox360 and still sells an average of 5 times the xbox360 units a week. In other words to compete the xbox would have to be at 1/5 th of the PS3 price to hope to get the same sales, and i don't think even that would be enough.

No developer can pay his rent from the attach rate, they need overall sales. An attach rate of 10 will bring you a maximum number of sold units of 1000 if only 1000 systems of that kind are sold. No point in spending development money on something that simply does not have the numbers to offer me a surplus after developing cost. An attach rate of 1 on the other hand could very well give me a max customer base of 5000000 when you develop for a system that is sold 5000000 times.

Attachment rates are typical bragging material for marketing goons. Cause placed without any context they tell you nothing about the business but might look bigger than the competitions numbers.

And you fell for that trap perfectly well. you claim Sony makes less software profits cause they sell less software cause the Xbox360 has a AR of 3.9 compared to Sonys 1.9 and at the same time you completely ignore that Software on the PS3 sold 1 million units more than on the xbox360 in half the time.

And some try to finish it with "but Sony looses more money for every hardware unit sold than MS"

Would someone care to explain what that matters to 3rd party developers ?
Maybe ... nothing?

Cause 3rd party developers do not pay for the hardware, so they reap maximum gains from a higher overall sale of hardware without doing anything.

For Sony itself it could be bothersome to have high hardware costs, but thats hardly something new to a console manufacturer more than 10 years in that business and a hardware manufacturer that has build and sold electronics for more than 60 years.

[wageslave]

attach rate: the most important metric in the video game industry.

The high attach rate speaks volumes about the demographic that the Xbox 360 has captured: The Game _PLAYER_.

[Shadow Flare]

Tie ratio of game equals = games bought per console

1 console sold and 1 game bought = 100% attach rate
2 console sold and 1 game bought = 50% attach rate
4 console sold and 1 game bought = 25% attach rate

Now considering wii and ps3 has been selling well in Japan, and 360's are next to dead, of course the attach rate will be higher because no-ones buying any new 360's, the 360 owners already are just buying more games

A higher attach rate is a bad thing actually because it shows consoles aren't selling. Why do you think ps2 has such a low attach rate? The ps2 has great games for everyone!

[jojo319]

I'm going to throw this out there and probably get slaughtered for it. The one major plus i see for 360 in the long run is the new IP's. All of the "huge" games coming out for PS3 next year are almost ALL sequels. 360 has Bioshock, Mass effect, etc.... So before i get flamed, I'm actually curious. What are the anticipated new ip's for PS3?

[Shadow Flare]

well unless you're blind, you've just seen a whole slew of them like Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, Resistance, Motorstorm, Lair, i think Warhawk can be counted. For 2008, LittleBigPlanet, possibly Heavy Rain, Eight Days. I don't see your problem with sequals. A game has a sequal because the previous rendition was fantastic and sold well. And PS3 has like 10 sequals coming. Thats 10 fantastic titles, i'd defy you not to buy a single one. And thats what makes a AAA game

Sony
Owns
Next
Year

[chrno6]

Bubble for u shadowflare, it's Wageslave who doesn't understand what attach rate means.

[jojo319]

I agree with you that there isn't exactly something "wrong" with sequels, it's just that the new IP's that have come out haven't exactly boosted sales. I'm just wondering if titles like MGS and FF aren't going to be bought up by people that already own the console. Again, NOT disagreeing, just trying to get some opinions.

[greenenvy]

even at launch, around that time the attach rate was this high including the likes of dead or alive 4 & dead rising in those numbers.....

even then, the attach ratio was ridiculously high in japan & better off than the likes of sega, sony or even nintendo....

let me clue you in on something sonybots: the attach rate has only gone up in japan, and the reason is because of who loves the xbox360...

all the japanese gamers who are into hardcore games, who have crossed over apparently at a good pace....to the 360, buying tons & tons of games for it and some even more than the PC....

here's a quick little answer for u sonybots: the 360 attach ratio will ALWAYS be highest likely in japan, and sell tons and tons of software.....regardless if the userbase was 600,000 or 2,000,000....

it doesn't even matter, because only one particular audience goes after it like crazy......

[pshizle]

more BLURAY and less GAMES!

[Saint Sony]

well, do we have a choice?.. NO.

[DarkSniper]

Attachment rates are nothing more than skewed information leaked by the Microsoft Corporation. While it may be true that XBOX 360's attach rate doubles the PS3 and the Wii, the true reality of it is that it still doesnt move any consoles.

With the console sales being the way that it is in Japan, Microsoft's gaming platform has no growth potential whatsoever in the native country of Sony and Nintendo. That is what developers notice as well. In Japan, PLAYSTATION 3® and Wii have outsold the XBOX 360 by significant margins and with so many consoles in the homes of Japanese gamers, attachment rates will eventually rise with the growth of software for each console.

With what was just said, Dark Sniper has presented fair and honest factoids of the growth of the next generation gaming industry in Japan. Microsoft has no chance. Microkids will dispute these facts and take personal offense to Dark Sniper's comments but.........

The Sniper doesnt give two hoots about any XBOX owner's opinion.

$niper

[caffman]

who the fvck do you think you are? Hulk friggin Hogan?

[Bon Scott]

Logically it should.
But for now the 360 is doing great and their software is moving
pretty well.That's awesome.
But I have faith in Sony,and they're going to kick some ass pretty soon.
I declare,
every console owner shall benefit from this gens offerings.

[HarryEtTubMan]

It wont stay this way... I smell desperation before the storm. The 360 isnt gonna win in ANYTHING after the PS3 is finished saling and bringing out its uber guns/games.

[goldenxbox]

I looking at the 360 release list, of most of them already confirmed and its a big laugh for ps3 !!!!!

http://xboxoz360.wordpress....

Most games PS3 claimed exclusive are not even exclusive especially L.A. noire !!!!

360 has just as many big games, even more in certain genres !!!

Its not even a contest !!!
2008 will be one interesting year indeed !!!!!

[Xbox is the BEST]

tells you that 360 has better games period.

[Covenant]

So it seems to be universal...if there's one thing we 360 owners do, it's buy lots and lots of games.

[Bladestar]

Look at the Sony fanboys doing the math to justify the PS3 low software attach rate.... explain this...

How come the xbox 360 software attach rate was always high... go back to when the xbox 360 had only 1 year... and see that it has never been at 1.95... never! not even in Japan.

You just don't want to admit that lots of these PS3 being purchased are being used as web servers and blu-ray players...

Everytime you hear stories (specially here) about companies using the PS3 as web servers, super computers... and people buying it for blu-ray playback.. that's another hit against software attach rate...

Look at this crap...

Here this is Sony using PS3 as Warhawk server clusters:

http://www.engadget.com/med...

here is a company using PS3 as web servers:

http://www.nbsp.es/images/p...

Now, let me ask you... how many of these consoles sell games? LOL...

The PS3 software attach rate will never be high.. and as companies continue to buy the PS3 due to it's price and use it as web servers and sony continues to fund their network... their attach rate will always suck.. always.. No everyone that buys a PS3 is a gamer.

as matter of fact... even I advice one of my client to replace their linux servers with $400 PS3 SKUs... these servers only need linux and web server software... so, why not milk Sony? they will buy 15 PS3... 15 PS3 that will never be plugged to a TV or ever play a single game.
15 PS3 that sony is losing money on.. and will contribute to the software attach rate to suck balls!

[Shadow Flare]

The fact that ps3's can be used for servers and supercomputers is freakin awesome, it shows how advanced its processor is. Can the 360 do that? NO! The fact that xbox has always and always will have a high attach rate, is because the only people who buy the 360 are hardcore gamers. No casual gamers. Which means they buy more games.

Couple that with the 360 averagely selling less then its competitiors in everywhere but america, and you have a high attach-rate. High attach-rate at launch??? No way! I thought people just buy the console and look at it! Couple THAT with yes, the ps3 does alot more things like it HAS a bluray player and you don't just have to use it for games. But Japan is the icing on the cake. High attach rate for 360 in Japan? That's because it is NOT selling and its only the people who already have a 360 who are buying games.

Like i said a high attach-rate is bad because it means consoles aren't selling, and also in the 360's case, it's fan base is just hard-core gamers, no casual, which again is why the attach rate is high. It's not a good thing, and it just exposes how enclosed the xbox interest is and consoles aren't selling as well as the competitors

[Bladestar]

yep.. that's right... using a game console as a super computer is just that, "Cool" and to give make you happy about buying a PS3 because someone is using it for something that means $h!t to you... ohh wow.. my company is using PS3 as web servers... mmmm... now what?
Anyways.. this article is not about the coolness of a console being used as something it was not intended to be used... nor this is a network site.. is a gamer site.. on an article talking about software attach rate.

"high attach-rate is bad because it means consoles aren't selling"... are you sure? explain why the xbox 360 is beating the $h!t out of the pS3 in the US? and yet the US has the highest attach rate in the world?

you are seing things the way you want to see them. them I even show you pictures... answer my question... how many games these consoles being use as web server or cluster servers sells? 0 games... none! nada!

Every single xbox 360 sold.. is purchase to play games. not the case with the PS3... fact! don't forget that.

Halo 3 is prove of that. look at the great % of the xbox 360 installbase purchased that game.

can the same be said about the PS3? kind of sucks.. that PS3 best games like Encharter have a hard time getting to 1 million on a PS3 installbase of like 7 million.

[Shadow Flare]

Im not repeating myself again after this bLaDEstard

I said before, xbox attach rates have been and always will be highest because the people who buy 360s are hardcore gamers (which is why most pay for xbox live) and they will ALWAYS buy more games. No casual gamers. And the high attach rate is BAD because it shows they're attracting the same hardcore xbox 1 crowd and not the casual gamers. The high attach rate just exposes how small its appeal is as it only attracts the same crowd as xbox 1 and noone else

[Says you]

Thats not even alot at all I doubt its even 3.39 and infact the PS3 rate would be more than that.

first of all ChokesOnDick you would believe every crap! that other company would say considering the PS3 is selling way better and I doubt that the attach rate for that console wouldn't be that high at all! since its selling poorly over there and you know it so I don't have any fanboy glasse's its just a fact that I doubt it has an attach rate that high considering that console doesn't have any games over there period so how on earth can it have an attach rate since its practically dead over there! and plus the PS3 attach rate would be more higher than over there then here!.

[JokesOnYou]

"I highly doubt it so its only 3.39
Thats not even alot at all I doubt its even 3.39 and infact the PS3 rate would be more than that."

First of all take off your sony glasses then you could see its 3.93,

Second I think that both you and your friend "Denial" dont know what the hell you're talking about.

cheer up bro, life is good=

JOY

[JokesOnYou]

in The Land of the Rising Sun even micro sells more GAMES per user than the ps3, it also has to make Nintendo a lil jealous, I mean obviously its not going to outsell either console hardware wise and I'm sure Ninty is enjoying their great hardware sales but it does beg the question, "Why do more 360 games sell well per user, compared to our games?" and really the explanation is simple:

#1 the majority of 360 owners/fanbase by and large are the hardcore/traditional gamers= we spend more money on our hobby than any other type of gamers

#2 we are looking for and found a console that caters to what we want= the best games

=look at the attatch rate in NA, Europe, and EVEN Japan and the evidence speaks for itself

ps2 btw has been out a long time now and last I saw its attatch rate was nowhere near what 360 is, even the original xbox had a very good attatch rate compared to its competitors

Keep in mind that devs make all their profits off software sales and I believe micro actually just recently touted figures that showed 360 sold more games than wii and ps3 combined; laugh, cry do whatever you makes you sonykids feel better (maybe you'll buy some games) but there is NO doubt the 360 is the Undisputed King of Software=

JOY

[sheng long]

fanboy overload! I repeat, fanboy overload!

[Lex Luthor]

The way sony fanboys are spinning this is hilarious.
Such Hypocrites.

[pshizle]

= SOFTWARE KING

[Xbox is the BEST]

of these"AAA" game proclaimed by Sony fanboys are not selling. Why?

[darkvenom]

back same time next year and you'll notice a change xbots!,Sony back on top! I swear you fanboys are pathetic, when all of Sony's perfect storm comes out next year you litte fanboys will be left wondering "What the hell happened!" B-but teh 360 was supposed to win!

[AngryTypingGuy]

The 360 has the best games, period.

[BLACKJACK VII]

GAMERS = XBOX 360 OWNERS

[JokesOnYou]

Thats about a simple as you can put it the truth in this case, some people talk about how great their games are, 360 owners go out and buy their great games:

GAMERS = XBOX 360 OWNERS
just look at this; @ the haters=
http://www.gamedaily.com/ar...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/be...

JOY

[WilliamRLBaker]

360=Gaming machine
Ps3=some sort of computer thing/entertainment hub/blu ray player
Wii=some sort of fitness machine/game machine

[Wii60_FTW]

360 has the best games. who's surprised about that?

[caffman]

Myself 28 games, my girlfriend 34 games.

[otherZinc]

everyone know's the 360 has the best games, Period!

For the clowns that think software isn't whats important, go to school & learn something about business and how any product stays alive. If a product cant sell its parts they will have no use in society.

[jam9]

Wow! PS3 attach rate in Japan gets 1.95!? It's very nice. It's more than double from 1 year before, 0.98.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006...

360 attach rate is nice too. It's not suprise for me, since I know only ppl having big interest in gaming are buying 360 in Japan. I'm really suprised PS3 high attach rate compared with 1 year ago. Anyway, I'm looking forward a day PS3 and 360 outsold Wii in Japan.

[MANTIIS]

...all I can say is..."SO?"

[The Killer]

i dont get it how they make these ratios, do they calculate for 360 for 1 year or since launch??

[Captain Tuttle]

Because some people only use it as a cheap, but excellent, Blu-Ray player. Great for Sony, bad for gamers.

[Testo]

I know here there are constant promotions when you guy a Pro.

Marvel UA
Forza
+ 2 other games of your choice (but the choices SUK!)

[midgard229]

i wud hope so since it has a whole year head start lol

[Lucreto]

The best way at looking at this is the 360 has been out 2 years the fans have got over the price of the machine and now have money to buy games.

Ps3 will catch up soon once people feel have more money to buy games.

Hey if you bought a $600 machine you will wait a while before you buy more games.

[pornflakes]

Now PS3boys also take the "1 year earlier on market" for Japan? interesting... lol

PS3 is a software flop... go to wal mart and start buying games pls.
And the same thing for Blu ray.. the attach rate for HD DVD is also higher.

[MvC Xtrm]

are soo broke from buying $599 PS3's, they have no money left over for games. Hahaha

I bought a 360 at such a good bargain that I was able to afford other things...

[mintaro]

i dont know where u are buying your ps3 but now the retail price is 399 dollars.(40 gig)
and although the 80 gig is a bit higher it is nowhere close to the 599 dollar price tag that you're stating

and not tryin to be a fanboy here(cuz i own a 360) but if u consider the accessories that the PS3 is built with( wi-fi, and a blu-ray player) you would have to spend way more money to get those kind of things and connectivities

Xbox 360 wirless network adapter $99
Xbox 360 hd-dvd player $99( xbox 360 doesnt have a blu-ray acsessory)

hmm i wonder which one costs more? do the math and see

and once again i probably sounded like a jacka** and a fanboy, but i am not, i love the xbox 360 and i think the games are spectacular but the things that some fanboys say, with no longer valid statistics are kind of a pet peeve( i hope thats how you spell it)

[wageslave]

To the confused lot above.

Attach rate is the NUMBER of GAMES purchased PER CONSOLE (sometimes, also titles per console per year*)

If you sell 100 consoles, and sell 100 games. Your attach rate is 1.
If you sell 100 consoles, and sell 50 games. Your attach rate is .5 -- expressing it as "50%" would be less accurate, as we are talking NUMBER of GAMES.

Some people, confusing what "attach rate" implies, wants to confuse a couple issues.

For instance, if you sell 100 consoles, and sell 50 COPIES of Title XYZ. Then, then we may say that Title XYZ has an ATTACH RATE of 50%.

BUT, we are talking about TOTAL titles. It is less clear to express this in terms of PERCENTAGES as we are disussing ITEMS (remember, we are talking about TITLES in total.)

Saying "The Xbox 360 has an attach rate of 330%" (for instance) is less accurate than saying "The Xbox 360 has an attach rate of 3.3" or most clearly: "The Xbox 360 has an attach rate of 3.3 Titles per console".

See? Saying "The Xbox 360 has an attach rate of 330% titles per console" doesnt make sense.

That is why many people in this forum are confused on this, they are confusing the two metrics.

*Which makes saying "330%" even LESS sensible.

[sak500]

Its simple, best games, best online features of the new gen consoles are on Xbox 360. Those ignorant enough to blindly follow their Sony Gods are the losers. People who have bought 360, continue to buy games cuz they are enjoying playing all these great games. I myself have recently bought, PGR4, Bioshock, Halo3, and recently COD4. Now gonna pick up Mass Effect and AssCreed. Gonna be nice winter for me.

Btw COD4 MP is the best fun I had since starting on the Battlefield series on the pC.

[SIX]

achievements have a lot to do with this. I find that I will get a somewhat good game just to get achievements. It has nothing to do with the quality of games since I believe the best of PS3 games NOW stack up quite well with the very best of 360 games.

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

IF YOUR SYSTEM SELLS YOUR ATTACH RATE WILL BE LOW .....DUHHHHHH IDIOTS