Nintendo makes $6 from every Wii sold

Analyst also predicts that Wii software will outpace rivals in 2008.

It's common knowledge that Nintendo is the only current platform holder to have made a profit from its hardware from the off, and now a number has been put on that - $6.

A report on Forbes reveals each Wii unit brings in an operating profit of $6 for Nintendo, according to David Gibson, an analyst at Macquarie Securities. By comparison, Sony loses money on each PlayStation sold, while Microsoft is currently able to break even.

[bmatthews]

are rolling in the green stuff, eh?

talk about sales for a game system...well i don't care really i enjoy playing games on hardcore consoles...

[Captain_Sony]

Sure you enjoy a hardcore system..... Thats why you rushed right into a Wii article huh? Are you enjoying some hardcore paintball? Maybe some hardcore 4 player follow the leader with puppets for 5 year old kids?

[Imallvol7]

Stand strong my fellow Wii hater. I am with you to the death . . .

[WANNA GET HIGH]

I am never buying the wii (-_-)

[xenogamer]

they would be making more than that.

[Blasphemy]

Wow you would think with the Gamecube Technology in the system that they would be making way more.

[Kholinar]

Yeah, well... obviously since they sold the GC hardware at a loss all last gen...

[Captain_Sony]

GC=450mhz, Wii = 733mhz.. Pretty easy to see that it isnt simply a GC, but then again if you really cared to know the truth you would have looked into this already. Also please exaplin how BLuetooth was in the GC? Wifi? Sd card support? See you look like a real idiot to anyone who actually knows what comes in the console.

[BeNice]

First off nintendo didn't have a loss on gamecube hardware they launched at the lowest price point last gen too if i remeber. the gamecube was as powerful as the xbox excpet programming was harder and was reoughly twice as powerful as the ps2.So ps2 was holding gaming back just like the wii being the weakest system on the market and winning nonetheless.

Nintendo was the only company operating at a profit last gen sony lost millions despite being market leader and microsft lost aorund 4 billion dollars with launching the xbox brand.It takes about 10 minutes of reasearch online to come up with all of this.

Now onto power, the wii can render 500 million raw polygons per second on screen. And the xbox considered the most powerful hardware last gen can render only 125 million raw polygons and the ps2 according to sony could only render 66 million polygons on screen at once.The wii is about 4 times as powerful as the original xbox so if you think doom 3 and riddick look good those games are powered by much weaker hardware.

The wii's gpu is a 729 mhz powerpc unit which roughly translates to 1.46-2.18 ghz because the powerpc though at lower speeds is as powerful as pentium chips that run 2-3 times faster. The wii is far more powerful than you think.And the wii doesn't have to waste any of that power on hd textures or anything. it also has some of the fastest ram in the industry. The tech inside the wii though rendering fewer polygons than its competition is some of the latest tech. Some of which still remains unexplained.Only nintendo knows.

And yeah nintendo has enough and more money to launch commercail failures like the xbox for two generations before they actually have to worry about money. Nintendo is the only gaming company in this console war because it isn't sticking its hands into other fields like sony who need blu ray to succeed so that the movie production and distribution side of their company is strong. Sony is practically betting their entire company on ths success of this console. Nintendo isn't, they have billions of dollars sitting away for an emergency.

Understand this it costs thrid party companies and first party millions to manufacture your hardcore games and look how long it takes to make thema dn they still have graphical issues and technical issues.And this huge jump in tech has not changed how you play the game.

There were claims of smarter AI, bullet holes and destructible environment allowing for new gameplay.I haven't seen any new game play really come out of this generation that wasn't done in the last. So is all this tech under the hood for nothing but merely a visual upgrade?

Oh yet another thing square enix has probably lost a fair maount of money with the latest jrpgs being launched epic probably didn't profit form unreal tournament 3. And LBP after years in developemtn and the amount of money spent isn't selling. Afrika i don't think did very well either.That probably cost them a fair bit too.Sony cancelled the getaway. Eight days was cancelled.

There have been great games this gen on the HD consoles but nothing groundbreaking because of the tech in their hood.And the games that try to be unique AKA mirror's edge get only decent scores and don't sell well. While rehashes of popular franchises like call of duty world at war sell millions. So basiclal it tells the industry don't take risks with the HD consoles you 'll lose millions they just want the smae old games. The wii still manages to keep companies afloat if they put their efforts there but the old order can't break out of their narrowmindedness. They think the furutre is the hardcore gaming base and more tech is the answer.

Companies going under and mergers , you are going to see afari bit if your favorite gaming companies odn't catch on to the fact that the HD consoles are simply too big of a risk to take and the hardcore base just isn't strong enough to hold up the industry.

I KNOW THIS IS INSANELY LONG SORRY FOR THAT.

[Blasphemy]

Yeah I know Wii has wifi and blu tooth but so does the PS3. PS3 also has the Cell and Blu Ray. If Sony is breaking even on PS3 there is no way in Hell Nintendo is only making $6 per Wii after two years on the market. Like earlier articles said Nintendo made profit from Wii day one.

[Sharpshell]

I don't know if you were refeering to the first year or what, but at the end of the day sony made a killing on the PS2, they didn't "loose millions" in fact the ps3 basically funded by by the ps2

[Kholinar]

"First off nintendo didn't have a loss on gamecube hardware they launched at the lowest price point last gen too if i remeber. the gamecube was as powerful as the xbox excpet programming was harder and was reoughly twice as powerful as the ps2.So ps2 was holding gaming back just like the wii being the weakest system on the market and winning nonetheless. "

Of course they didn't lose money, they never do.

Sorry that the sarcasm came off so poorly. It's just funny to watch people balance a line where they're saying "it's the gamecube 1.5" when the cost estimates have always shown it to be anything but... Also, I think the Wii had a profit margin at the beginning, but Nintendo had to invest in more production to meet the demand. But then you have to deal with people saying they manufactured the shortage...

[Tiberium]

Sony isn't breaking even. They are losing money on each console. The only way they are staying afloat is by milking the ps2 for all it's worth. Pretty sad relying on a last gen console.

[xenogamer]

why are all the games on it so fvcking ugly, i still havent seen anything beat ninja gaiden on the xbox, most of the wii games look like ps2 games, and ive been there done almost a decade ago time to move on.

[steveg2564]

So, why aren't you moving on? If you had, you wouldn't be in here complaining.

[Mini Mario]

"Yeah I know Wii has wifi and blu tooth but so does the PS3. PS3 also has the Cell and Blu Ray."

Ahh he was giving examples of what differences are between the gamecube and wii.....he didnt say the ps3 didnt have those things.

"PS3 also has the Cell and Blu Ray."

Its funny i dont remember my NES playing VHS tapes...yet it was quite popular....hmmm weird, it only played games. How bizarre.

[AWBrawler]

Both Galaxy and pokemon battle revolution have better graphics than anything on the original xbox. some of the lighting effects and graphics aren't even possible on two xboxs combined. And from what i've seen of Fatal Frame 4 and the calling, its obvious the wii is a powerful little machine. Heck even Fragile looks awesome for a cel shaded game.

[Gr81]

Was also sold at a profit, Nintendo is an excellent business model to follow.

Also it never fails, Wii news, first post a Wii hater.

[cyax]

Wasn't Nintendo breaking even at launch? I thought they would be making more than $6 by now since cost-reduction measures in the production lines coupled with a stable price point should have increased profits.

But still, profit on hardware AND software this generation with the best-selling console shows how Ninty made a great business move.

[shysun]

2 years ago at launch they said they made money on Wii form day ONE. So 2 years later it's only @ 6$? No way in hell it's only making 6$ per system. I have a wii( don't play it) and it doesnt cost 250 to make this GC 1.5!

[TapiocaMilkTea]

there's no way they're making only $6, maybe a year ago, but not now.
It's still the same price after 2 years. It probably only cost them less than $100 to make one.

[Maxned]

You dont have a goddamn wii and its really sad for you to try and cover that up. You wouldnt call if a gamecube 1.5 when there are so many online features, Virtual Console games, Wiiware games, motion controls, and a robust menu.
Everyone who owns a wii likes it. Maybe not as much as a 360 or ps3. But they like it. If they dont like it then they obviously arent buying the GOOD games from the system, not the CRAPPY shovelware titles like Carnival Games or Horsez.

[shysun]

I have a Wii, I don't play it all. The last game I played on it was Tiger Woods( best wii game ever) but that's it. My daughter plays it but I don't touch the thing.

[AWBrawler]

don't be afraid to admit you play the wii. why did you feel the need to point out youhave a wii just to say you don't play it. Heck I i have a wii, but I ain't gone lie like i don't play Halo, Gears, Ninja Gaiden, Folklore, MGS4, and Ratchet and Clank

[Product]

actually a year ago an article on n4g claimed Nintendo made $40 profit form every system.

[Nineball2112]

Actually arrrgh, this was taken from an article at Forbes, which is a pretty reputable publication.

Futhermore, it's according to David Gibson, an analyst at Macquarie Securities.

So, I would think (or maybe just hope) he would know what he's talking about.

[Kholinar]

Nintendo's doing considerably more production. More factories being retooled to meet demand = higher initial cost. But it'll go down quicker and mean higher profits in the long run.

Also the Yen has remained relatively stable compared to most every other major currency. So, checking it against this currency value (by month calc): http://www.gocurrency.com/v...

We see that in Nov. 2006, $250 equaled 29330 yen, and a $40 profit would have been 4692 yen. In Nov. 2008, $250 equals 24202 yen, a loss of 5128 yen ($44), more than the $40 profit of 2006. The euro and the pound have done the same thing... so that's affected margins somewhat, I'd imagine.

Probably affects ps3 price cuts too... since $400 a year ago went from 45000 to 38700 and is dropping fast....

[Suga Shane]

@ bmatthews: you sir are consumed by blindness! What is "hardcore? overhyped FPS #1,2,3, and maybe 4? The word "hardcore" is thrown around as if it only applies to FPS and bloody games which is not true.
Shysun: All anti-Wii gamers claim to own a Wii and not play it just so they can justify an argument. This man has no Wii. As far as GCN 1.5......see Captain Sonys comment

@ Captain Sony: Well said sir

[Gr81]

Excellent post, I agree wholeheartedly. Also I don't mind the long posts as long as they are saying something worth while. Only thing is, I thought devs thought the ps2 was the trickiest to develop for and Cube was the easiest. Xbox was basically a pc makeup (I thought, I could be wrong) But the heart of your post, is the most important aspect: Can updated graphics really be the answer? Can the niche market of "hardcore" gamers (i hate that word)sustain this industry? What is actually different this gen in terms of gameplay that wasn't done last gen? (Hell sony kept the same controller for their last 3 consoles, M$ made their controller more ergonamic this go round) The industry is very narrowminded, RE's creator even said as much recently.

Anyway great post.

[BeNice]

i want to say a lot more and do have more to say but I am holding it in and it hurts a little. LIke price cuts actually being a little detrimental to the value of the consols in the public eye. Microsft and sony will have to abandon everything they have believed in so far if they want to win and even then the chances are fairly slim.

It is never superior tech that wins it s is superior business model that wins. Nintendo followed sony's and microsft's current business model from the nes on hence thye lost with the n64 and gamecube> sony took and risk and it paid off.Gaming is going to change so mcuh in the next couple of years.For the better that is,even if the hardcore is going to call it doomsday. They don't write the script anymore the "casuaaaallzzzz" do. They better start thinking how to supprt the supposed "hardcore" efforts on the wii or they will lose their voice in the coming era of gaming.

I sound like i am making a prophecy but I am in business school and I am watching nintendo form the side, its fun.

[Captain Tuttle]

I thought it would be much higher.

[TheColbertinator]

6 bucks added with the strong software sales of the Wii especially 1st party games equals a healthy profit

[Blink_44]

I always thought they were making $40-50

[Blasphemy]

Yeah man this article is BS. If Microsoft is making more more money off the Xbox and Sony is breaking even there is no way Nintendo is only making $6 per console. Yeah I know Wii has wifi and blu tooth but so does the PS3. PS3 also has the Cell and Blu Ray.

[Blink_44]

Yeah i know. I remember reading somewhere that the wii costs $200 to make i doubt its 6$

[BrotherNick]

You know, the cost of the parts only cost about 200...but think of the transportation, the payment of the factories, and all the nintendo workers...that's why it's only 6 dollars per console. When they were calculating costs back then, they were only subtracting the retail minus the cost of the parts if they weren't put together, which is a cost in itself.

[Bladestar]

ohh wow... these numbers sound way off.... how can that be... I can built a PC way more powerful than the wii with less money and I do not have assembly lines to mass produce it.

I do not think that the wii hardware cost more to produce than it cost microsoft to make an xbox 360... if So, than this is great news for Microsoft since they got a hell of a deal when they signed up with hardware manufacturers and eventually be able to sell xbox 360 at $99 because Nintendo can't... also this would translate bad with people waiting for a wii price drop since the biggest price drop they are going to get is $6... since Nintendo has no need to lose money on their hardware do to demand.

[Ngai]

its a trick to let people think nintendo has a valid reason to not lower their product price. Blink_44 i doubt it costs 200 dollar to make the wii actually. Maybe 100, my bet is even lower.

[steveg2564]

Those crazies at Nintendo can't fool you, Ngai.

[ChickeyCantor]

They have a reason not too, the damn things are selling well.
...Price cuts are only made when demand is fading away.

[Product]

http://www.techeblog.com/in...

this is the article claiming $40 dollars profit not $6.

[Gr81]

While 6$ x 38 Million consoles is still a hell of alot of money, definitely alot more than the HD twins are making, 40$ for every Wii sold seems a bit more reasonable, and also makes more sense in how Nintendo is able to make Billion $ quarters.

[Nineball2112]

Nice find, Product!

I wonder what the discrepancy is from the two numbers? I notice that that was back from 2006, so that was 2 years ago...

Inflation can't explain that much difference, can it? Or an currency exchange rate?

[Kholinar]

I'll repost this from further up in the thread:

checking it against this currency value (by month calc): http://www.gocurrency.com/v...

We see that in Nov. 2006, $250 equaled 29330 yen, and a $40 profit would have been 4692 yen. In Nov. 2008, $250 equals 24202 yen, a loss of 5128 yen ($44), more than the $40 profit of 2006.

So yeah... inflation would account for a lot. Sony and Nintendo probably both think we've already had a price cut.

[barakiu]

also according to the original Forbes article it states that the PS2 was last gen tech at the time of it's release, when we know it was the highest end console at the time of it's release, & still on par with the XBOX and Gamecube released a year later.

From Wikipedia:

While Microsoft and Sony have experienced losses producing their consoles in the hopes of making a long-term profit on software sales, Nintendo reportedly has optimized production costs to obtain a significant profit margin with each Wii unit sold.[60] According to the Financial Times, this direct profit per Wii sold may vary from $13 in Japan to $49 in the United States and $79 in Europe.[61]

^this was a year ago.
who knows how much Nintendo made per console at the time of launch?
^who knows how much they make per console NOW? (doubt they make less, doubt it's only 6$ bucks.)

[Voiceofreason]

You missed the key word in this "According to the Financial Times, this direct profit per Wii sold MAY vary from $13 in Japan to $49 in the United States and $79 in Europe.[61]
"
Meaning they do not know for sure.

[Balance]

wow, i came in here because i thought it was interesting topic and strolled into a fanboy bonanza. btw $6 is the operating profit, they probably do make $40-$50 on each console but by the time you take R&D costs already spent and operating overhead of people, distribution and marketing the pure profit is $6 and that sounds about right.

as for the the blind fanboy comments like:
"your favorite gaming companies odn't catch on to the fact that the HD consoles are simply too big of a risk to take and the hardcore base just isn't strong enough to hold up the industry. "

really, give epic a call and see how their balance sheet is doing. in case no one noticed the "hardcore"(people who play games 10+ hrs a week, type of game doesn't matter) is what has always supported the industry since the beginning and till today and pushes them. its great that nintendo makes $6 on every wii however game sales will always outpace hardware and games are where the money is. 2nd and 3rd party developers know this, MS and sony know this which is why they are willing to lose money to get the hardware out there. developers (not 1st party) are not flocking to wii because the wii's fanbase does not buy many games compared to 360 and ps3, and alot of developers know the target audience of the wii is not in a demographic they are good at making games for (ie violent or complex games).

if i were in charge of a development studio i would rather gamble $12million in development of a game and sell 5 million copies and make $400million (gears of war 1) dollars than spend $2 or $3 million making a game for the wii hoping and pray it might sell 800k copies. not to mention those gamers on ps3 and 360 are loyal to a fault when it comes to sequals (GTA4). so you get one hit game the next 3 versions of the game will also sell millions of copies.

EA is the worst about screwing whoever for the money and where do their games mainly go? not the wii so if EA who only chases the money ignores the wii more than the other two then that tells you where the money is.

[BeNice]

Pc-n64-ps2+pc-wii+ps3(soon)

I have nothing against the HD consoles except that their business models will not succeed.If they lose money they aren't going to be happy. Since you like to talk business here are a few things.

-The idea that sony will win because of brand name- Sony kept themselves diassociated from the original playstation, they did not want the sony brand associated with the console.

-Sony is here to provide console gamers their fix because they love the hardcore and are not in it to profit and achieve their ends: When sony was first asked at the lauch of the original playstation who their competition was they said microsft (microsoft wasn't even in the fking console gaming sphere!!!!) , Kutargai i believe said for the ps3 people buy a gaming console but what enters the homes is a cell powered computer. Sony is trying tobe your next generation of pcs.

Seriously consoles were differentiated from pcs once upon a time but now with the xbox and ps3 you merely have pc emulators sittingg in your living rooms. Curious since anyone has to agree pc gamers are the highest level of hardcore gamers in this entertainment sphere. How is hardcore pc gaming doing nowadays? the most popular type of games are online mmorpgs that are simple and available for casual play.Online flash games. And the likes of starcraft anf diablo 2 that don't feature cutting edge graphics. Games that have pushed tech further have come out but they have all merely been evolutions of the concept, the same repetitive formula under a new coat of paint. IS crysis that different from the old first person shooters heck its predecessor far cry in many ways. Has tech allowed for new gameplay?

Let me phrase that differently : ARE YOU PLAYING GAMES THAT ARE SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FROM THOSE THAT PRECEDED THEM YEARS AGO BECAUSE OF THE SIGNIFICANT JUMP IN TECHNOLOGY?

Yeah calling epic and taking a look at how much money they have mad right.Clever, hmmm, did I say epic is failing with all of their games? No unreal tournament 3 is no longer as relevant in the industry as it once was. People flocked to the series. There are still hundreds of players who play the first one over the latest. Why are those hardcore gamers not jumping on this flashy new beats. BEcause it is the same game nothing's changed excpet for better textures and particle effects, they don't make the game any more fun.

Let's look at the "next-gen" games that have come out. When the orignla gears cam out it sold millions was lauded by critics. I have played the game and I think its one of the worst games I have played but that's opinion.But tell me the gameplay in gears this hardcore game is run hide pop out and shoot. Complexity in hardcore games was what you said. Does that sound complex to you?

Gta once moved millions of units of hardware what happened. Gta Iv maybe moved a million units or a little more 360 and ps3 together.It was supposed bring in that influx of hardcore gamers from ps2. here's the kicker. Gta 4 made things more complex. Gta was fun cos it wasn't grounded in reality it was arcadey infact. But mapping actions to every possible button on the controller made it complex, the inclusion of real physics made things more realistic. It was more of a sim than its predecessors. Casula used to play gta evidenced by the high sales of the preceding games and i am sure some gamers can vouch that their girlfriends and sisters played gta and had fun. Gta 4 is being outsold by mariokart wii a console exclusive release in the same span maybe later by a couple of days. The game is arcadey and the peripheral you hated on made the game more accessible, it brought the real world into the game unlikegta which broguht the game into the real world.

People play games to get away from relaity to have crazy fun that isn't possible in the real world. You could drive a bike down a vertical hill in gta:sa and be fine you can't do the same in gta 4.The game was boring and repetitive cos it wanted to be relaistic. Funny thing the real world is actually boring no matter how much of a party guy you are if you can actually think you know the real world isn't the most fscinating or crzy places around.

The target audience of the wii. Let's go there.The target audience actually includes gamers from eariler generations who dropped out because games demanded from form their lives. Games didn't eveolve to fit their life, they were asked to evolve to fit the gaming lifestyle.This broughton the huge negative stigma attached to gamers.
The wii userbase can be cracked but not by bringing games over that stay in the same old formula but games that are designed to fit into the lifestyles of poeple. Youcan't give them a 50 hour game that has saves every hour. Mario Galaxy you can save or quit almost whenever you want, zelda the same, mario kart the same, brawl. the same.If you put in more time and effort you reap the rewards but you still get immediate results with a short while of play. They have succedded according to their accesibility as well.

Melee sold less than brawl in the entire lifespan of the gamecube, while brawl which is an improvement in every way sold more in less than a year. If melee was bought by hardcore gamers then brawl was bought by hardcore gamers as well but they say the wii sucks and they won't buy it, so maybe the casual bought it. so the casula have moved from simplistic wii sports to more complex fighting games. they are moving up.(they won't jump to hd consoles, but i am too tired to type about that.) You have break out of the formula to sell to the userbase nintendo's formula has worked for everyone almost all the time so they haven't had to change but third parties have to.

The wii userbase probably sells more software spread out over more titles than the 360 or ps3 or its atleast fairly close. The sales of the 360 and ps3 are concentrated to pivotal titles.

If the 360 and ps3 are sure bets i guess mirro's edge is doign great, dead space is doign great, lbp is doing great. wait no they aren't they were different from the formula they didn't sell, the ps3 and 360 aren't certain ebts for actually differnt games , games that are slightly to really innovative? The horror the hardcore fanbase would rather have call of uty world at war an fps that plays just like the hundreds that have come before it. Yes thats it lets make he same games they ahve beeen playing fortwo generations throw on mroe particle effects and more cinematic angles. They like to feel like they are heroes in moveis that must be it.

You may think i am wrong and you may hate what I say. But trust me when the time comes probably by the end of next year you will see that waht i said was true.The superior business model always wins. I haven't said your hardcore developers will die or disappear all of ausdeen they will be there but they'll grow weaker but the ones small developers if need be whop bring a genre to the system that sin't there and break into the mass market wiil be the square enix and activisions of tomorrow. maybe thats Marvelous entertainment who's bringing the rpg genre to the wii, maybe its namce bandai who are bringing rpgs and flying games to the wi. Maybe its ea they didn;t get to the top without good business skills.

Its rumoured ea is going to bring some of their premier franchises to the wii next year , sega is betting on the wii as well.

AGAIN SORRY FOR THE LONG POST

People may not like what Is ay but those of you who actually know how market forces behave you merely need to look at history and companies that have fallen. Sony did exactly what nintendo is doing no and that's how they became a household name. they seem to have forgottn that.

EDIT: i said brand name doesn't help and that sony and that playstation didn't succeed because of that here's something nintendo demands that their console be called the wii not the nintendo wii. See a similarity, I do.

[Captain_Sony]

Some facts for you. In 2 years Wii sold more software then 360 did in 3 years. Just look at NPD and other sources every month. What I see is someone who knows nothing about the current state of Wii and like many other fanboys wants to tell others things that are completely wrong.. 3rd parties are not flocking to Wii?? How the hell did you even come up with that? It has more 3rd parties games now then any other console. Has more 3rd party games otw then any other console.
Oh give 1 company a call out of 200 for proof... Yeah thats really gonna prove me wrong that you can name 1 company when 4 went bankrupt off of HD gaming. Oh I guess those 4 prove you wrong.
Also you bring up EA.. How clueless can you be? Not only have they announced several games EXCLUSIVE to Wii, but they also use WIi as the LEAD platform for many games.
What I read in your post was this "I am totally clueless and wish to discuss things based on information I know that isnt true in any shape form or fashion.". Well thats what I got out of it anyway.I would say the only fanboy around here is you.

[devilhunterx]

Out of the 3, which has the most to offer.

[Gr81]

If I were a company, I'd much rather be making $$ out the gate, than to gamble with the "possibilities." Epic makes $$ off their engines more than anything else. I'm failing to see the "fanboy" in the comment you quoted. In fact there is alot of info to back up that claim. So I guess "hardcore" now means the amount of time spent playing a game?

[Balance]

"If I were a company, I'd much rather be making $$ out the gate, than to gamble with the "possibilities."

which is why companies like that either fail or end up going public to raise capital. every company is looking for that one product that hits big and can then make more from spin offs. when you start a company your investors do not want to see you make $100k/yr profit, they would rather you lose $1mil the first two years then make $100million when the product releases so they can get their investment back + more. epic does make most their money from engines (which other companies license and turn into COD 4 for example, also sold 4+ million copies) but you think they regret for one minute spending $12million to make gears of war? that $400million was a nice bump to the bottom line.

i define "hardcore" as someone who spends alot of time playing games and alot of money buying many games and accessories. i don't see a definite definition of the term so i guess each person has their own idea of the concept of "hardcore".

but the point is whatever ends up defining "harcore" is where the money is at and people who are in that definition are the people spending it which is where 2nd and 3rd party studios are aiming due to the bigger returns on investment.

[Balance]

btw if you want to talk raw numbers here is an example. i know it is a xbox website but at every e3 MS brings this up in their conference. basically in terms of cash brought in (not profit) the wii is dead last in SOFTWARE. that is what developers look at, how much money do people spend on games per install base.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xb...

[Mahr]

Um, a couple things.

A. That source is focusing on a single month.

B. That source is over a year old.

C. Please explain how this: http://media.teamxbox.com/d...
"360-74%, Wii 17%, PS3 9%"

leads to this conclusion: "basically in terms of cash brought in (not profit) the wii is dead last"

[Gr81]

Not sure I can agree with you, and I was really trying to see the logic in what you were saying but, I just couldn't also that link you provided..very lame. Though there is one thing I can agree with you on and thats when you said defining "hardcore" is pretty much pointless.

@Mahr: About time you showed up, glad you bought up the weakness in the link Balance provided. I was waiting for someone to do it because I only had one bubble left lol.

@Balance: Another outstanding post, consider yourself tracked.

@Cap'n S: "Some facts for you. In 2 years Wii sold more software then 360 did in 3 years. Just look at NPD and other sources every month." I think we call that "check mate"

[user3915800]

Nintendo makes $67 per console sold, MS makes $8.75 per console sold and sony looses 22.36 per console and these estimates are accurate. What a moron go find a different job. This are estimates from the company budgetary reports quarterly in Sept. and oct., so how in the hell makes that dumb ass author so irrelevant as to why this article sucks just like he does.

[Sitdown]

in calling the author a moron when you have grammatical errors throughout your post.

[Mutley416]

With that money they could buy Mario a new Set of overalls...
and get Wario some anger management-
Peach could get...

[Sitdown]

or a bodyguard?

[jack who]

lies

[Magic_The_Celt]

Your dad using a condom was a lie too

[air1]

magic

and you being adopted was the truth..

[pcz]

profit is profit. nintendo are the only ones doing it right

[AWBrawler]

By definition a hardcore gamer as anyone who plays games more than 10 hours a week, so you could be a hardcore tetris player, or a hardcore Chocobo dungeon player. "Hardcore Game" is just a term the industry came up with to try to make their games seem superior to others. Heck, my Girlfriend is a Hardcore Pikmin and Skate player, she clocks in mad hours on those supposedly casual games. But heres a history lesson: the people you're calling casual, are the ones pulling the strings. True gamers care about fun more than graphics and power, why else would NES beat Master System, SNES beat genesis, PS1 beat N64 and saturn,PS2 beat Gamecube and Xbox, Gameboy beat Gamegear, and DS beat PSP, because true gamers don't care about graphics. the least powrful console has always won the supposed console war, and will for ever if Sony and Microsoft keep trying to hard to appeal to the graphic hungry supposed "Hardcore" gamers

Thats all I'm sayin'

Peace be with you and God Bless.