Criterion make Burnout Paradise Xbox 360 HDD/Online Statement

Criterion Games have made an official statement explaining why Burnout Paradise requires a HDD for full online play on the Xbox 360.

[Darkiewonder]

Glad to see they saw didn't try to keep ushing the core model where if it doesn't work, we don't do it [to the other 360 model]

Maybe Microsoft will throw in a hard drive. but lawlz @ if Japan [or anywhere] buys the core model and find out they can't play Burnout.

[marinelife9]

Imagine that someone thought to put a high capacity optical disc and a standard hard drive into every sku. Just in case an ambitious developer needed one or both of them to make their ideal game come true.

[masterg]

@marinelife9

Good one ;)

[DarkSniper]

XBOX 360 has always given gamers "the choice" on enhancing their gameplay experiences. You've had "the choice" if you wanted a high definition movie upgrade to your platform. You've had "the choice" if you want to play your games online with other users or not. You have "the choice" to download demos upon launch, or WAIT B3YOND weeks to download the very same demo that can be downloaded sooner on it's competitor platform.

At no surprise, Dark Sniper reveals that XBOX owners, even with the purchase of XBOX Live, have "the choice" on wheather or not he/she wants to play Burnout Paradise by upgrading or not upgrading to an overpriced hard drive.

For those who enjoy the online experience and is forced to purchase a hard drive, please note that for the price of a 20GB XBOX hard drive, you can get at least 150 gigs of space to place in your PLAYSTATION® 3 hard drive. Last but not least, all PLAYSTATION® 3 owners regardless of the SKU, are able to enjoy a rich, detailed and superior online service of Burnout Paradise on PLAYSTATION® 3.

$niper

[DarkSniiper]

You have to factor in the price of the PofS3 as well, that you get no Achievements, No Rumble with the Sixaxis Controller, no custom music and no messaging of friends. Sooo, not really a good experience, so I take it back, keep the Xbox 360 FTW!!!

$niper

[sak500]

LOL. I as wondering why I could see your comment as i had him on ignore. Good one, i see the better version has more bubbles and better sense :D

[Hockey11]

Yea but more disagrees than the original Sniper

[The_Engineer]

for about $60 cheaper I just upgraded my PS3 to a 250GB HDD.

[green]

Microsoft please get rid of the core or make it in very limited numbers.

As can be seen the harddrive is becoming more important in game development.

[spandexxking]

that would be futile. MS cant shaft all the exsiting customers, that would be wrong.

[shysun]

Well dev's are starting to shaft them already.

[Nostradamus]

What if someone wants a cheap 360 to do system link?

Im getting a core to go in the other room, to link to my current 360, but dont want to spend $400.

Core is the way to go if you want two 360's

[meepmoopmeep]

if i remember correctly they dropped the entire xbox 1 userbase like last weeks diarrhea ... we're talking about MS here

[yamamoto114]

@spandexxxking

Sony did it by releasing several different SKU's and price drops. They effed me over by offering first a 60 GB, then a (slightly gimped) 80 GB console for the same price of my one-year-old 20 GB one. So if they can do it, why can't Microsoft?

You seem to forget how the electronics industry works: everything becomes outdated within a six month timeframe.

[CrazedFiend]

@Yamamato

Does your gripe have ANYTHING to do with gameplay? Any Sony game can play IN IT'S ENTIRETY on any PS3 model, regardless of what model or how early you bought it.

I have a core 360. If I want to make use of those online features on my Xbox, I can't. Not without buying a HD (which I so far haven't because, (1) if I do get a HD, 20Gb just is not big enough and (2) the next step up is 120Gb, which is WAY too expensive for me right now).

I really wish that MS would have either stayed away from the whole propriety thing, given us more options to choose from (100Gb between our only two options is WAY too much dead space), or better yet given us at least a little bit of HD space as standard from the get go.

But I'm not gonna cry too much over it 'cause I got a PS3 too (^o^)b

[kewlkat007]

Agreed..

MS get your head out your @ss and end this Core business or cheapen your accessories..dammit

[travelguy2k]

there are tonns of used 20gb HDD for dales at game stops and such, afterall, what r u going to do with your old 20gig after you upgrade. Game retailers should offer you 10 bucks trade in value and then re-sell them for $20, or something to that effect.

[HardcoreGamer]

iv been many places to by my mate one, still no luck

[kiko89]

when i changed my ps3 hdd from 60 to 250. i am using my old hdd in an exturnal enclosure. price 10 15 dollars. and a portable 60 gig hdd.

[shine1396]

x360 requires propriety hard drive..$99...but don't qoute me on that, cause I'm not really sure...

[LeonSKennedy4Life]

Quote him on that...

...cuz it's true.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

"We opened a dialogue with Microsoft to attempt to discover a possible solution and all possible technical options were investigated to retain the seamless freedom of Burnout without requiring the HDD. Unfortunately a solution was not available and we decided together that it would be in the best interests of the Burnout community if we require the HDD for full online play."

Nice going... I wonder now if this can be applied to any developer now... where they'll make games that require the HDD for data caching or whatever and just leave the poor Core owners SOL. But in any event, kudos to them.

[SRT4Chris401]

I'm glad Dev's are using the damn HDD for caching. Maybe it'll knock off a few decibels of noise off the worlds loudest dvd drive. I'm sorry, but I paid for an elite, and I expect the dev's to utilize my 120g, seeing how M$ won't let me fill it up with anything else but they're sh*t. If Mass Effect did that, then maybe it would've been a more enjoyable experience, god I got so tired of the textures constantly loading up when I'm playing the game. A quarter of the ending cut-scene was nuthing but shapes, and smeared textures....

[Iron Man 2]

There's no excuses,Microshaft f'ed up big time,it's no surprise either;)

[mighty_douche]

Who said a next gen console needs a HDD?! oh thats right... Criterion do.

[ScottEFresh]

HAve to agree on this one...the 360 is already starting to show why it was able to get out of the gate early. Because it's a gimped machine. IT might have been able to pull things off until now but games are getting bigger and more complex and the 360 just can't handle it.

[killer_trap]

it was only a matter of time. an HDD is needed and a blu-ray disk will look like a necessity and a year's time.

good thing some companies think of the long run.

[yamamoto114]

Hear hear.

[AliC]

I am surprised that all 360s didn't come with a HDD from the start. Microsoft should have followed on from what they had with the original xbox.

Mass storage is very important, especially in this day an age.

[shysun]

Who r u and what did you do to Zuhk?

[yamamoto114]

I agree. By doing so they effectively split their market in half. Bad move on their end.

[DJ]

using PS3 as the lead development platform.

[HardcoreGamer]

thats soo true,

[BrianC6234]

Does this really even matter? I can't believe any serious online gamer has a 360 with no hard drive.

[Zuhk]

Plenty of people don't have a HDD for their 360, it's not provided and it's usually one of the last things people buy after batteries, a headset, a Live card... what else am I missing?.. Oh yea, Games. =/

[kiko89]

my ppl online are gamers more than causuals. and most gamers brought the one with the hdd anyway.

[ApocalypseShadow]

but ps3 gamers already knew that having a hard drive as standard is better than not.just like xbox1 gamers had it like me.more space to put files is better.that's just a fact.

custom music,no memory cards,downloads,etc, are nothing but positives.why microsoft went without one this time boggles the mind.they had the time and advantage even if sony released ps3.because sony announced well ahead that ps3 was going to be expensive.and the $299 360 was passed up anyway for the premium.

360 development has been hindered because of 2 different skus.adding to the smaller disc space.this was said in a video on youtube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=...

megaton...................... ..

[pwnsause]

well, expect MMO's like Huxley to use the Hard disc drive, and expect other games as well that are going to require it.

[SRT4Chris401]

They didn't put it in there because they wanted money for accesories. It was ridiculous what they charge for a 20g laptop HDD in they're 360 enclosure, even the 120g is ridiculous also...

[yamamoto114]

I agree wholeheartedly. And paying $100 for 20 GB of space is like asking $1000 for a copper ring. One can get 500 GB for $80 for Christ's sake!

[Fiyah3k]

look, as time goes on & the yrs past developers will want more capacity for their ideas. sorry 2 inform those who are unaware but dvd9 isn't gonna cut it too much longer as games are becoming heavier in size. blu-ray is the next format of evolution! As far as to why microsoft didn't integrate a HDD into 360 like the first is from a profit standpoint..........

[Salvadore]

Why should they be disappointed as MS were the ones who caused all these troubles?

[yamamoto114]

That's subjective and relative.

It's like having Windows fail to run on a Mac. It's not just the fault of one or the other, it's the fault of both. Unless you're a fanboy.

[Doctor Strange]

At least they took the time to address the issue which is very good on Criterion part.

I some people are saying just discontinue the core and make HDD requirement a necessity all thats going to do is split the 360 user base or chose them to get another console where they don't have to worry about these problems.

This is trend I hope doesn't continue but MS at fault for this one.

[pwnsause]

nah, all they have to do is buy the 20gb hard drive, which i dont know if these users would do this though.

[BLUR111]

yea thats why people paid more for the pro, you get the hdd

[name]

Well the game was built first on the PS3, so I guess that meant that they couldn't really cut corners since all PS3's have a harddrive. If the 360 was the lead platform then the HD's wouldn't be manditory.

[Lord_Ash]

They tried their best and couldn't avoid the satiation, it's not Criterion fault anyway but it's nice to know they went "investigating" for a solution

[ReBurn]

I'm not against requiring the HDD to play games. If someone wants to play online they really need the HDD anyway.

[pwnsause]

whats going to keep bugging me from here on till april is GTAIV. We know you don't need a HDD to play the Single Player, but would the multiplayer be affected because of the lack of a HDD on the Core systems? im mean GTAIV is a Sandbox game, just like Burnout Paradise, so the same rules could apply here as well.

[pwnsause]

not only this it makes you wanna wonder on all these rumors about all these PS3 exclusives that are built on PS3 hardware going to the Xbox 360. I mean, can the 360 even run them, im not going to even mention these games, you guys already know the ps3 games that Im talking about, especially the most famous PS3 going to xbox 360 game rumor that im not even going to mention.

[BeetleJuice]

i wonder how many load times we will c when that title releases ^^^^
but who knows
MS has really disappointed me... i was a die hard with the Xbox
and once the 360 came out it was like F-u either upgrade or dont play games... i wonder how many other games will release like this?
pretty soon they will be saying buy a hard-drive or dont play games

[Guwapo77]

My hypothesis...

I believe the reason for XBox 360's core version was to compete with Nintendo's Wii not the PS3. Since we all know the Wii is without a HDD it would be priced around the Wii to steal potential customers.

In the end it didn't steal Nintendo's customers, it only hurt the money tight 360 gamers.

[Rhythmattic]

Sony didn't need to do this... They already had an SKU that was price comparative to the wii , which also made a profit and still outsold the 360...

I Give you the PS2.

[venum]

Some of my friend have find one use of the core or arcade system.
Basically, when they had a RROD or another failure, the bought an arcade version because they could not wait for the return of the SAV. In the same time, they upgraded their xbox 360 to an hdmi version and 65 nm chips version. They gave their console after the return of the SAV to their little brother.

They can afford to spend money, so... Why not

For this original explanation of the core and arcade version give bubbles guys

[akaFullMetal]

yea but you really shouldnt have to have a back up of your system.

[Figboy]

having been a gamer for a long time, i've noticed the importance of having larger storage media in some capacity for a console.

the SNES was able to do things that the Nintendo could only dream of, not just because of the jump in hardware power, but because of the ability to put more data onto the *LARGER CARTRIDGE (ie, Pilot Wings, Super Mario World, Castlevania IV).

the Playstation was able to do things that the Super Nintendo could only dream of, not just because of the jump in hardware power, but because of the ability to put more data onto the *LARGER CD FORMAT (ie, Final Fantasy VII, Castlevania: SOTN, Metal Gear Solid).

the Playstation 2 was able to do things that the Playstation could only dream of, not just because of the jump in hardware power, but because of the ability to put more data onto the *LARGER DVD FORMAT (ie, Grand Theft Auto 3 - San Andreas, Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3, God of War 1 and 2).

the X Box was able to do things that the Playstation 2 couldn't do, not just because of the slight difference in hardware power, but because of a new wrinkle: a *STANDARD hard drive (ie, Custom Soundtracks).

based off of my observations of technology, from PC games to consoles, *EACH GENERATION of technological advances has also brought with it the need for a storage medium that would store those advances.

and of course, at the start of said technological advance, it's not quite apparent *WHY said larger storage is needed, but it eventually become abundantly clear later on.

the X Box 360 should have had, at the *LEAST, a Hard Drive for *ALL SKUS released. as a bare minimum. a high capacity disc format would have been nice, but an HDD is a nice alternate for the most part.

the Playstation 3 came equipped not only with an HDD, but *ALSO with a Blu Ray drive, capable of playing discs storing 25-50gigs, and in a few months to a year, 200gig disc.

even if developers never needed to utilize that 25-50gigs or the HDD, *IT WAS THERE.

Burnout Paradise is simply a small example of the tough time Arcade and Core 360 owners have ahead of them if they don't upgrade.

Microsoft *KNEW that eventually they'd have to own a hard drive, so they're gradually letting developers "require" it for certain tasks (ie, playing online). eventually, it's going to get to the point where you'll need the hard drive to *PLAY the game.

all this equates to is Microsoft making money on peripheral sales of the HDD.

i mean, really, is *THIS the company that you want to rule gaming? a company that will *PURPOSELY split it's market, only to have them need the required object (conveniently proprietary Microsoft object), and buy it at a later date, at inflated cost.

i like my 360, but that's just a load of doohickey. i feel bad for the Core owners that just legitimately couldn't afford the Premium 360, and *HAD to buy the Core if they really wanted to get their X Box fix (after-all, it's not like they could take their time and enjoy X Box games until the 360 dropped in price like Playstation 2 owners can do with the PS3, since Microsoft dropped the original X Box like a bad habit, forcing X Box owners like me to upgrade to the new box, even if i didn't have the money to do so; as an aside, i held off on the 360, got a PS3 instead, and bought my roommate's 360 for $150. i had to buy a hard drive, but since he works at Gamestop, i got it for $55 bucks, and Mass Effect for $40. good deal, really. but i was lucky though).

[The Wood]

lol but honestly, some people think that the term options is some type of empowerment. I live in the uk and if you compare the specs of Japanese cars compared to the same Japanese car in the uk it takes the piss. Fully Loaded vs Fully Optional, go figure and bubbles for talking nuff sense

[pwnsause]

Bubbles for you, thats what I always try go get across with, Storage tech on games evolved from Generation to Generation, yet Microsoft didn't followed this and took 1 step forward and 5 steps backwards by doing this, its obvious that they rushed the system out the door just to be one year ahead of Sony, but whats the point? they just did more damage to themselves, how? just look at the recent controversies with the 360, Im not even going to mention them, you guys already know what Im talking about.

[Legion]

But yet XBox 360 version of Burnout Paradise will STILL outsell the PS3 skew of the game!!!

I see no issue with making a game that requiresan HDD. The core users new the option was going to be inevitable from the get go on the HDD requierment. So they have the option of purchasing an HDD if they wish to play BP.

[spandexxking]

its not at the moment! you fail and suck at the same time

[Legion]

Actually as of 5 Feb XBox 360 had 52% of the sales versus 49% of the sales for PS3 in comparison of the 2 systems for BP. So not sure what moment you were living in?

http://vgchartz.com/swlaunc...

[spandexxking]

beaten by a fraction and the xbox has a much larger install base! you still fail.

[MorganX]

I wonder how many Xboxers with no HD are actually going to go out and pay $60 for Burnout Paradise to play online, which implies a broadband connection. I just don't think this is an issue. Anyone who didn't buy the Core and won't pony up $99 for a HD, probably isn't buying BP anyway.

[CrazedFiend]

You might have wanted to actually think about that one b4 you posted it (@_@)...

I may not have a lot of money to "pony up" that extra $99 bucks, but that doesn't mean I don't like online play. I was honestly looking forward to schooling my friends in this game, but now it looks like I can't.

Not at MY house anyway...

[MorganX]

I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to play games like Burnout Paradise, online, why did you buy the budget model without a HD? It's appropriately named Arcade now.

I mean, I suppose the budget model makes gaming more accessible, but if you want the full-blown experience just buy the HD model. What would you have MS do? Eliminate the Arcade SKU? Then if you can't afford the core, you have nothing, or buy a Wii.

The Arcade SKU is for people who don't want to, or can't pay the full Core price but still want some XBox 360 gaming; when you're ready to step-up buy the Hard Disk. In my mind that's all there is to it.

If I was MS, I'd just kill the SKU. Apparently there's a lot of people who want the HD, they just don't want to pay for it like the rest of us did.

[Figboy]

i don't know his reasons, but you have to consider the *WHOLE picture.

1.) Maybe, honestly, he couldn't *AFFORD the Premium or Elite 360 models ($300 for the Arcade/Core, vs $400 for the Premium, and $450 for the Elite).

2.) Microsoft *SAID that Arcade/Core users wouldn't have to worry about issues like this. they *LIED to their consumers, and now the trusting X Box 360 Core/Arcade owner is paying the price, literally and figuratively.

so what you're saying, then, or at least it's what i'm reading from your statement, is that if you can't afford the top of the line version of your favorite gaming console, you should just *NOT GAME?

if Microsoft had continued support of the original X Box, 360 owners that couldn't afford the "deluxe" 360 models could have waited until the price became more palatable.

with the Playstation 3, Sony did quite a few things right.

1. packed the system with features that could be utilized by their *ENTIRE userbase, regardless of model bought (ie, Blu Ray drive, HDD standard, and ethernet cable)

2. the features that separate the "top end" PS3 and the "low end" PS3, are features that could be upgraded by the user at their convenience, and for fair prices (ie, the Wi Fi could be added via peripheral if needed, same with memory stick readers and HDMI cable. also, such things can be handled via *NON-PROPRIETARY products, so PS3 owners don't have to worry about paying for over-priced Sony peripherals. for example, i bought my HDMI cable for $8 off of Newegg.com, and i have my fiance's external HDD hooked up to my PS3 for when i want to watch the videos and movies from my computer without setting up the media streamer).

the Playstation 3 covered it's bases, whereas Microsoft is seemingly *GOUGING it's fanbase.

they stabbed them all in the back by abandoning the X Box, forcing them to upgrade to the 360 before they were ready, and then they stabbed them in the back by *LYING to them about not having to worry about being left out if they couldn't afford the "top end" 360 models.

yeah, Microsoft is all about choice, with the only choice being to buy the "top end" models, and if you can't afford it, by the cheaper one, and then overpay for an HDD and other "options" (ie, HD DVD drive).

thankfully for me, i got a deal on my 360, so i don't have much to complain about, but that doesn't mean that i don't feel bad for those gamers that are being screwed by MS repeatedly this generation. you can dress it up in fancy PR speech all you like, but MS is screwing their fans. and there's nothing worse than a gamer scorned, really.

[CrazedFiend]

You're exactly right Figboy.

I believe that I am a hardcore gamer. I've been gaming since the Atari 2600, and I still play games just about every day. I even got the PS3 as a gift because I am a gamer. It's just that at this point in my life, most of my money has to go to something OTHER THAN GAMING. Believe me I would pay more if I could, but right now, I can't. It's not as easy as MorganX would like to make it sound.

But Microsoft did give me the impression that I wouldn't have to worry about that. So I do feel lied to now.

For a company that is ALWAYS thinking about where the future of electronics is going, they completely neglected to think about where gaming is going when they made the 360. Now they're starting to force some of us to upgrade if we want to fully experience their games.

B.t.w. I never said that I would never upgrade, but if you read my earlier post, the options MS offer just are not right for me. A 20Gb drive is not worth $100 to me and I really can't afford $200 for the 120Gb job (I don't know about you, but when I put down some money for gaming, I want it to actually be for a game, and that's almost 4 games worth right there). And there's currently nothing available within that WIDE valley of options that MS has left us with.

I'm sorry, but I think I'll buy my Burnout on the PS3. Install time or not, at least that one came out of the box ready to play this game.

[akaFullMetal]

sucks for arcade sku 360 buyers, i wonder how many parents are going to get angray when there kid cant play it online?