4D Graphics: A Reality Only For PlayStation 3

We all know what 3D graphics are - length, width & depth, but how many know what 4D graphics are?

[thereapersson]

inb4obliviondoesthis

Also, while I believe that this whole "4D" thing is a tangible concept, I still that that Sony shouldn't have blurted it around so much when it's going to be at least 2 years before we start seeing games that take full advantage of stuff like this.

[LOFT316]

you its gonna be a while before we see these kind of capabillaties in full action but some of the games that or out now and some that are due in the near future are touching on this damm these games are gonna be lookin better and better

[solidt12]

Yeah it will be in a few years when the PS3 starts using all the SPE processors on the Cell processor.

[radzy]

i thought they sacked kutaragi ?

[monkey602]

and radzy fanboys in general kill me. you are the same as your own worst enemy just working for the other camp

EDIT: thanks virus ;)

[closedxxx]

Two years is being optimistic.
I don't imagine developers putting a lot of stock in this technology.
Although it is impressive as a concept, it doesn't have much practical application for the majority of todays games.
How long would you actually spend in one area in todays games?
Even in Oblivion, you weren't in the environment long enough for there to be any noticeable change to the environment, and even if there was a slight change, that is hardly the focus of the game.
Static environments are fine.
We live in day to day rooms that undergo very little change over weeks, months and years.
This "4D" graphics claim is just another bullet point to sell hardware.

This technology is not practical, or worth the time required to implement it.
I can't think of one developer that would want to spend the time to integrate "4d" graphics into a game instead of working on the function aspects of the game.

It just seems excessive

[VirusE]

Well put monkey602! Bubbles for you

[The KEN KUTARAGI]

I got canned a few months back :(

I mean........ I quit- er... ummm... RETIRED !! :)

[Mu5afir]

This is perfect for various aspects of games.. an obvious use for this technology would go to RPGs. But even sport games etc.. can use them. Remember games like "NBA Bollars" etc.. now imagine playing that game, but you start out as a young kid, and grow old over time etc..

How anyone can ignore using TIME as a factor in gaming is beyond me.

[larry007]

this is why UT3 x360 version is delayed.

The programmers were saying that they would have to massive downgrade the game to make it run on low powered x360.

console war is finished.

I feel bad for x360 owners who might have to dump their consoles in garbage bin STARTING SEPTEMBER

[eLiNeS]

It's the only place you will go back to see your nice new living place look like a SH!T hole in a matter of days. It will turn in to a great place to show off your dusty trophies.

[rareairtone]

Isn't that what the message at the end of the first video was saying?

[ALI-G]

first it will be relased 1 year afteer 360 version @5fps @480i

just give me game to play even if it at 2D

[Odion]

uggg PSU just showed how stupid they are, 4D is not the progression of time, its the perception of it. To see 4D would be like looking right and being able to see everything thats going to happen in the future for what you can see as a constant stream. And looking left you'll see the past for that area as a constant stream.

This mearly simulates the progression of time.

[THC CELL]

odion stop talking bollox man

psu has just showed u what 4d is

[Odion]

sigh just to make you look like a moron

http://www.tenthdimension.c...

just watch up to 4D part. 4D is not something the human eye can see, the progression of time is not 4D if it were then we could say every show and movie that does that is doing 4D

[cloud360]

well this 4d is a type of programming. only possible on ps3.

the 4d u showed was somonesleases opinion. it didnt exist.
and science is a lie

[Systematrix]

The human brain can't comprehend 4 spacial dimensions. Time is the 4th dimension but it's temporal, not spacial. Another "gimmick" to fool the ignorant.
Edit: Good link btw Odion.

[Armyless]

The first 3 dimensions are simulated as well... I don't recall anyone bragging about giant floating holograms in their living rooms.

[Systematrix]

I guess the people that disagreed with my comment actually think you can simulate or visualize 4 spacial dimensions? Our world is doomed.

[VirusE]

Odion everything you are saying is correct but I think that the average iq and age in this thread is to low for the majority to comprehend it.

4d is a marketing gimmick nothing more.

[DeadIIIRed]

Of course you can't see time, that was never the point of this article. The point is that you will be able to see the realistic effects of time. "It merely simulates time" uh....duh?! Everything in a video game is simulated if you break it down like you do. The point is to simulate time to make it look as realistic to a 3 dimensional world as possible. If you accept that current games are 3 dimensional then please spare us your bs and accept that a simulated 4th dimension is acceptable.

[Armyless]

-

[VirusE]

DeadIIIred I think you are missing the point that it isn’t a proper simulation and shouldn't be called 4d. I am not saying it isn't a viable and cool piece of tech but it isn’t really 4d and that is what odions point is. It’s just a cool marketing name. 3d games simulate the 3rd dimension 4d games are not simulating the 4th dimension as it can’t be simulated even with a real super computer like earth simulator.

[tfur]

2 things... 4D objects, and procedural textures...

4D objects...
http://dogfeathers.com/java...

hypercube... screen saver on linux systems for a while... 4D vector data, projected on a 2D plane(monitor/tv)...

4D rendering...
The whole idea, is that you have textures in 3D space... if procedural, you can translate these attributes in time...

Go download POVray, a free raytracer, now apply a stone texture to a metaball or something... then translate one of the stone attributes (turbulence and scale) in time...

The Cell SPE's are just really good at this... this is where plain texture maps fail... procedural is the holy grail, since it has infinite scale or translation... Just like nurbs and implicit surfaces have infinite scale... Pixar Renderman uses procedural textures...

[beavis4play]

i'd love to hear you explain your theory of 4D as indepth as the article explained what it really means.seriously, i want you to scientifically explain the "look to the left and see the past and look to the right and see the future definition of 4D"

[sloth4urluv]

Thanks God VirusE has a brain. This isnt 4D, and you dont need procedural textures to mimmick what they are doing.

I can make that kind of effect on a way older engine by using a new texture, a dirty old texture and using some sort of animated alpha channel via vertex or alpha map texture.

[Wii60_FTW]

4D = Time = Fony's latest Gimmick for their blind 2D ant slaves. Enjoy! ;)

[Armyless]

I'll wait for you to look it up.

Still waiting.

[BIadestarX]

"Now, let’s fix a common misconception. These 4D renders can be processed on the Xbox 360 with an average mean time of 10-12 seconds. Yes. The renders are possible, but the dynamic realization of procedural texture streaming is not. The dynamic renders with characters in the scene, with progression of life through the time continuum, are not possible with the 360 system. It would take days to produce dynamic renders on the 360 in the fullest definition of 4D graphics." another article made by Sony fanboys in order to brain-wash even further their lemmings.

So, go on.... Sony fanboys click the link... And jump into the world of 4D graphics that only the PS3 can offer...

Sony has the authority of changing what 4D actually means. They did forgot to mention that developers will not bother using 5% of these capabilities (assuming it's true) since it would cost them cost them millions in development. but hey... it's good to know. This remind me when the PS2 came out... many of these articles fload the internet... and lots of tech demos. too mad none of them actually were implemented in games.

[Lord Anubis]

:|

it's a conspiracy, man.

[A Man]

Your head is stuck so far up Microshafts arse. Jesus talk about scared.

[MarioFromTexas]

You say it doesnt serve a purpose for games. Example you shoot a car and it catches on fire. Would you like to see the same car with orange flames all over it or would you like to see the car Disintegrate in real time in front of you. 4D is basically those special affects come to life not just smoke and little of particle affects. Bullets holes, explosions, hair affects, facial expressions, clothes dynamics. It's all caculated and control by time. It's probably not going to be in every game but AAA are going to be using it. I want better physics, animation, interaction with your surroundings and most of all a beleavable world caculated by time

[sloth4urluv]

Mario you do understand that this 4D graphics is only the texture animating, cars wont disintegrate and chunks wont break off of walls when you shoot them because the textures are animated....

you assume that everyone that disagrees with you is an xbot, and in typical fanboy fashion make bogus claims armed with your vast knowledge of system architecture, enormous programming skills, and unmatched game designing talent.

either that or you looked at some pictures and half read an article and assume you know what your talking about.

Keep in mind some poeople are pc gamers, some are nintendo fans, others are just skepticle on buying a PS3, they are not xbots, and are not paid by microsoft to state their opinion, or point it out if someon is full of it.

[Wii60_FTW]

Just reading these sony fanboy responses truly makes me sad for the future sake of humanity. Are we already in Mike Judge's Idiocracy? I think so. Wake up, morons. 4D is a marketing gimmick designed to trick the lowest IQ apes on the planet...YOU! LOL. monkeys.

[thereapersson]

But this whole "4D, 1080p blah blah blah" BS really gets on my nerves. Just release the damn games and STFU so gamers can experience all the things you talk about!

[Lord Anubis]

4D textures is only one of two things that will be in future games. IF you go to their website you'll learn a lot about 4D and there's a game that will take advantage of their middleware.
http://www.profxengine.com/...

[acetw1n]

someone dumb it down for me,I mean what is it ?, will we be able to taste the sH!t now or something

[A Man]

4D?

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

ps3 already has cg graphics in realtime, so when graphics jump even furthen then use this trend, the next gen will TRUELY start

AIZEN SAMA

[snoop_dizzle]

i just need some games.

4d could be pretty cool but mostly i just want some good games.

[MarioFromTexas]

If you shoot a wall on gears of war, it turns brown where you shot at. What if that bullet you shot left a real hole and the wall actually had part of it broken off. Just think about the possibilities anything you can turn, break, wet,touch would move and react in a realistic way. I know it's hard for xbots to grasp, but it's just the begining.

[InMyOpinion]

My arse is true 4D...

[ParaDise_LosT]

Do...does that mean new Ps3 Software containing 4d graphics will include

[snoop_dizzle]

well there probably some other cool stuff to watch change over time.

But you guys have gotta be quiet becasue i wanna see and hear the grass grow.

[g4n]

because they knew this when they rushed the 360 into production (dont tell me they did not, its an "HD" system that does not use "HD" Media, not even M4 branded HD-DVD's)
BUT! by the time 4d is "in" i think it would be time for the 360(2) as its already dated as hell...

[ParaDise_LosT]

Necrophilia :|

[thereapersson]

at least someone got it

[ALIEN]

It's going to take alot of time b4 we see 4d graphics.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

"alot of [time] b4 we see [4d] graphics" i sort of found that funny

[DG]

just put on some 3d glasses and duck pieces that come at you form the front, left, right and back.

[razer]

Not the 4D graphics line of BS again!

Excuse me while I go and put a bullet thru my head!

[thereapersson]

Soon you will be playing Warhawk, and then you will be able to take out your 4-D-fueled rage on other people!

[razer]

I will be blowin up chumps in 4D in my Warhawk!!

[CNIVEK]

Sony fangirls are so stupid and gullible. :o

[A Man]

.

[mighty_douche]

i liked the sony advert at the end, wouldnt mind watching that in 1080p! anyway, yeah, pretty cool, in horror-esk games like RE and even role play games like oblivion this could really be something special! if it can be implimentated in real time, eg, 100 hours on oblivion = 100 hours aging to the environment (like the bathroom scene in the video) that opens up potential for some new game ideas i think!

oh and ps3 only...... sorry came over all fan boy for a second.... wooo

[ShiftyLookingCow]

this "PS3-only 4D" bs is so fu(king old and lame. Its possible on any system with proper shaders existing since DX9 hardware(2003). Yep I might go ahead get a suicide mowdown from a Big Daddy now. Let me tell you what is PS3 only as far as consoles go by, large disc capacity to give devs ample space and Cell processor which helps a lot in the great looking postprocessing effects like in Killzone 2

[edit] so whos disagreeing and for what? well if you want believe some of the junk PSU puts out("Bioshock PS3 is surely in development and we will soon have news about it here") well go ahead.

[fjtorres]

It's not news and it has nothing to do with 360.
And, its irrelevant.
Children: its a freaking rendering algorithm.
Its not the *only* way to do graphics.
Its not even the most efficient way to do this stuff in a game anyway.

But when nature gives you lemons, you make lemonade and when Sony gives you SPUs you do floating point technology demos.

But technology demos are not games and promises of fancy algorithms doesn't sell consoles.
Sony, where are the games?
No games?
Then get out of here; don't waste my time until you have a playable game you wienies.

[InMyOpinion]

N4G would be better without the monthly competition. It attracts flamewars and has effect on the quality of the news.

[Ri0tSquad]

Sad. Ooo nooo the box cant do 4d boo hoo who cares. Theres plenty of things it cant do same goes for ps3.

[Azures]

Is it just me or do anti-sony guys like bladestar and razer both find warhawk great?

Thats the best advertising for the game anyone could think up, "Even if you hate sony and have voodoo dolls of Jack Tretton, you'll love WARHAWK!"

edit: And yes you two do show some anti-sony bias, even though I've seen claims of neutrality. Never see you two ripping up 360 or wii articles.

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

ps3 has never been a console, its marketed as one, its sold in a console form, it has a console price, but the thing is its a supercomputer and some more, thats why it can do 4d, so please give up nonesense talk son

AIZEN SAMA

[mighty_douche]

im a sony fan boy but....^^

[VirusE]

Mighty your comment made me about piss my pants! Perfect timing and execution

[DaEnforcer]

4D + PS3 = Game Over xbots

[DaEnforcer]

=]

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

ps3 has been out for less than a year and you say it has no games, you have no idea how dumb you sound right now son, go take a nap

AIZEN SAMA

[VirusE]

ohh god here we go again. www.metacritic.com they show an average of all of the reviews for a game that have come out.

Go check the site out i think it will open your eyes.

xbox360 61 games with 80% or higher scores

ps3 18 games with 80% or higher (19 but motorstorm is on the list twice) , of those 18 games 7 of them came out for xbox first and have higher ratings than the ps3 version. 1 of the games was a xbox game (also rated higher overall on the xbox) so that leaves 10 games. Of those 10 the highest rated game is resistance 86% the xbox has 17 games that are rated 86% or above. Check it out it’s the truth, I sh1t you not, you are my favorite turd after all.

[Armyless]

-

[SlippyMadFrog]

The fourth dimension is time, it's pretty simple. You don't have to use all that crazy algorithems to show 4d. Let's look at Oblivion. If it is the middle of day, the ground will be bright, as time go by and the sun sets, the ground gets darker, BAM! 4d graphics. The ground showed a progression of time therefore a fourth dimension is added meaning it is 4d. There are all sorts of ways showing 4d. The method the guy explained in the article is a very complex way of showing a fourth dimension but it is not the only way. Games have been showing a fourth dimension since long ago. This is just another buzz word that Sony is throwing to wow the general public.

[SlippyMadFrog]

I'd like to know why people disagreed with my explenation. A may be wrong but I still like to know why.
Dimension 1 -> length
Dimension 2 -> width
Dimension 3 -> depth
Dimension 4 -> time

If the colour of a texture relies on time, then the fourth dimension comes into play meaning that the texture is 4d. It's already present in a lot of games.

[SofaKingReetodded]

tree bark cracking and falling off, blood drying on the pavement, ground that get's muddy with rain. thats the kind of things we will see on PS3 and never on the 360.

[SlippyMadFrog]

Thanks for the reply, although it is very fanboyish. The article is saying that 4d graphics can't be shown on the 360. I'm saying that 4d is shown in games since long ago. Ground getting muddy and the sun setting is both 4d graphics, the one might be more advanced than the other but they are still both 4d graphics. 4D graphics can only be shown on the PS3 is FALSE. If not, explain why.

[deifen]

Did you even read the article? It wasn't just talking about the implementation of "Time" simulation in videogames.......but of procedural texture streaming, a particular way to represent time in a realistic manner.

[SlippyMadFrog]

I did read the article. Procedural Texturing and 4D is two different things. Procedural Texturing can be used to improve 4D effects but the statement I'm trying to make (not the article) is that 4D isn't anything new. Don't be fooled by thinking Sony invented 4D, it's a new word they are using to draw in uninformed people.

[The Spartan]

Frankly, I'm not about to believe all this 10-12 seconds and a full day of processing talk. Not trying to sound like a fanboy, but I'm definitely not taking a word of this in until there's another source(that's not a sony site) that PROVES no other console can do this.

It's as ridiculous as Ubisoft saying that the new Naruto game couldn't have been done on any other console other than the 360.

The fact is, these sites shouldn't go around writing these articles based on companies trying to curve the latest news in their direction. Has anyone tried 4D on 360 yet? No, So don't say it will take 10-12 seconds when there is no proof. Has Ubisoft tried to make Naruto for the PS3? No, because MS has the rights for the game, so why would they try. Everyone should stop arguing over hopes for the year 2009, and focus on what's going on now. Everyone always gets into such a frantic mood when things like this hit the net, but the fact is, it makes no difference to us. It's how hype machines start, and that's exactly why this information was released now.

If anyone thinks subtle differences like this are what will make or break games in the future, you are sorely mistaken. Imagine a future game review, "Ya, the controls were horrible, the camera was awful, but at one point a dog was eating a bone and it looked like his jaw muscles were actually moving... 10/10!!!!!"

[tplarkin7]

The PS3 can do 1.8 TFlops vs the Xbox 360's 1 TFlop, on paper. Yet, 360 games always look better. I don't believe paper calculations, just games. Let's see this in a game.

[tfur]

http://www.allegorithmic.co...

[tplarkin7]

"Reality" is something that can be played, not a demo on a high-end PC.

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

whoever said highend pc?

this says ps3, you would need some clusters of pcs to equal what ps3 can achieve, ps3=supercomputer and more, your gonna need about 8 pcs to pull off 4d, so it is only a reality for ps3, unless you have about 15 gs saved up

AIZEN SAMA

[tplarkin7]

Then the 360 must be equal to 16 clustered PCs since Madden 2008 runs at 60 FPS vs the PS3's 30 FPS.

By the way, the demo which is in the article was on a PC. That's what I meant by high-end PC.

[snoop_dizzle]

dude there is obsession, but then there is OBSESSION.

Do you ever walk outside?

[Kill Crow]

That's the lamest thing I ever heard. What next - 4D Virtual worlds to view your 5D Trophies and show off your 6D Telly to your 7D Mates in 3rd life .. I mean Home 9D

[marc 1975]

4d 1080p 120 fps on 2 teles im getting 1 tomorrow

[Ahhhh]

@DaEnforcer - "4D + PS3 = Game Over xbots" hmm seems you forgot what Sony forgot about.. GAMES!!! I can say I have a million dollars but nobody gon' believe me if I don't have the "Monay".. talk all you want about 4d in games.. but till' there here and are actually good games, don't open your mouth.. please.

[snoop_dizzle]

i assume 90 + percent of the gamer population even knows what that means.

So hey it could be cool and all but its not really over for the competition unless they show the 4d tech over and over and over.

[Biasmania]

Super Rub A Dub owns all sucka.... :)

[killercam19]

so heres something thats not important until atleast 2009 by then i looking forwaed to the next system

[LOFT316]

if your an xbox fan

[Leg-End]

.

[Numark]

they should worry about putting out some good 3D games to be honest right now. Not a fanboy comment, but the ps3 has a serious lack of good games. Sure, 2008 may end up being good, but what about now?

With sony, its all about next year. every single year, you just wait for the nest one and they underachieve.

[monkey602]

"With sony, its all about next year. every single year, you just wait for the nest one and they underachieve."

actually this is the first year i have ever been even slightly dissapointed in sony's releases and in fairness i dont think they have ever underachieved

[Biasmania]

I never really understood the no games argument.

I own a PS3 and I have games I play constantly.

Resistance (I like the game, and I have gotten my moneys worth out of it.)
Oblivion (Got my moneys worth out of this too.)
Virtua Fighter 5
Motorstorm

I own 7 games on my PS3 not including downloads and I play them religiously.

I mean I like these games, throw in the fact I can go grab so many PS2 titles and let them tide me over, like Persona 3 and the like. I don't understand this argument. Yeah I know Warhawk and Swords aren't getting stellar reviews but I have a pretty full plate come September. I just don't get it.

[ps360s]

well its from the fanboys

both as bad as each other

[monkey602]

dude that is the most intelegent thing i have heard anyone ever say on this site. i have been trying to tell people this for months i'm happy with what i have, sure i could do with more games but i can wait because for the moment i have what i need and i know things will pick up. +bubble for you

[SofaKingReetodded]

right now i have 20 PS3 games and about 20 PS2 games that I play on my PS3 and they hold me over quite well.

The thing I comeback with is that I can go to my local gamestop, look at the 360 wall let out a couple of ooh's and aah's (gears and bioshock) and the rest is whole bunch of "mehhhhh".

so don't let xbots fool you, their game library sucks pretty hard.

[headblackman]

i didnt see anything that the xbox wasnt capable of doing. :/

[LOFT316]

to see anything there buddy you can hear it you know that god awful noise the xbrick makes

[Mattguy]

Okay I'm a pretty big sony fanboy but I just have to say, who really gives a damn? Why don't we wait until this stuff is really used to it's potential,then we can hold it over xbox's head Eh? It's nice to put it out there that ps3 can do this stuff but it's a little too early to REALLY get into.

[Biasmania]

Yea but as a Sony fan, don't you already have things to sing praises about? I mean yes Xbox 360 has a really nice online system, and achievements were the best thing since sliced bread for gamers. But as a Sony fan I have to admit, whether you like Motor Storm or not, in 1080p the game is stunning to look at. The fact I downloaded Tekken 5:DR as a downloadable game? Awesome. Each machine has serious perks, it's just for me there are 5 franchises I play till my fingers bleed.

Tekken
Ratchet and Clank
Shin Megami Tensei
Final Fantasy
Metal Gear

My choice was clear.

[SofaKingReetodded]

at first I was little turned off by Tekken 5:DR because you could only use D-pad to move around. My son picked it up, got good at it and now he has me hooked. This is a very deep fighting game with tons of replay value.

[Bloodmask]

marketing BS.

[Ashira]

It's nice, sure... but I wouldn't call it 4D. Where's the fourth dimension? Time is not a dimension; it is more of a factor in the game. It's not an axis where you specify coordinates. It's just a marketing scheme, really, if you ask me...

[TheMART]

So when is 5D coming Sony???

First bring some games before talking about new dimensions!

[Biasmania]

We got games Mart... We got games coming too.... Plus 4th and 5th dimensions? I'm way more excited about the 7th.

[ThisIsWaiting]

........

[Biasmania]

Wasn't that clever?

You work hard on that one?

Give me a break, I'm just saying I like what I have. No need to trash your 360 to justify my purchase. Do you want me too? OK. At least I don't have to panic every time my PS3 makes a noise. "Oh god is this the time when the RROD strikes?"

[ThisIsWaiting]

and your panties get too tight too quick.

I wasnt even talking to you dipshit ... just providing themart with a jpeg he might find handy someday

[WilliamRLBaker]

LOL Wow...so you mean time is the 4th dimension? you mean when a thing gets old in a game its the 4th dimension....
UH OH! they did the 4th dimension on SUPER MARIO 64!!! things got older, by growing bigger...

UH OH! the tub water drained in Resident evil...time passed by uh oh!
Looks like 4d graphics we're acomplished like...10 or more years old...looks to me like sony is promising crap, and delievering on it...What they talk about is no different from the capabilitiy in games before the ps3.

[tfur]

Go read up on the difference between texture maps and procedural textures.

Its not about scripted triggers... its about textures defined by procedural definitions...

Look up some things from ACM or go to a Siggraph convention... try to find a seat even on the floor at a Pixar Papers and Panels...

[DaEnforcer]

"28.3 - @SofaKing
Thanks for the reply, although it is very fanboyish. The article is saying that 4d graphics can't be shown on the 360. I'm saying that 4d is shown in games since long ago. Ground getting muddy and the sun setting is both 4d graphics, the one might be more advanced than the other but they are still both 4d graphics. 4D graphics can only be shown on the PS3 is FALSE. If not, explain why."

Nope, what you see on 360 is just scripted, this ain't 4D textures that react with time.

4D + PS3 = Game Over xbots =]

[GameHero]

WHO FREAKIN CARES, IT'S A COOL ASPECT TO HAVE IN A GAME (AND I'M DOWN WITH IT), YOU XBOTS JUST WANT TO BEAT IT DOWN BECAUSE ITS NOT ON POSSIBLE ON THE 360.

[WilliamRLBaker]

You mean they cant program an 360 game where over time *say in game every 10 minutes is a day* that over time things change? tree's change foliage to the season? kids get older? last i checked FABLE you grew up, and got older...
You mean its not possible? really last i checked it was...
Infact last i checked the snes, and genesis could do it.

what they are talking bout is procedurally the textures of a thing changes over time, based upon the age of the object in game....Well last I checked..many games from the snes, genesis, n64, saturn, ps1, ps2, xbox had day time changes, as well as time based day to night time changes...They tracked the time in game...and all those systems had what you called....Proceedural texture changes.

Example: SOTN when you get to dracula with richter in the intro, he procedurally changes textures to the big master vampire...

Simply put, the ps3 is not the only system capable of this.

[toughluck]

"4D" graphics is such a misnomer for this type of thing. Yes, these are textures that are dynamic and change with time. But anything that shows movement or change through a 3D environment over time, even Mario Kart 64, could technically be called 4D.

[Dogswithguns]

.... and plz Sony bring over the 4D games soon. I want them.

[ParaDise_LosT]

procedural textures Gen wasn't a Cell Exclusive....
I belive QuakeWars:ET is using it..
creating them with a toolsuite called......
Err...Ummm..
MegaGen/MegaTexture Gen
but I'll spare everyone from the tech stuff hah....
you'll have to look it up your self.....

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Sony ...just deliver us some great games and stop with the hype machine already. Stop showing tech demos and start delivering games. Thats all your fanbase wants...he games...not promises of tomorrow...but games for today.

[osler109]

is for example the upcoming mx vs. atv untamed game and its predecessors. A motocross track never remains stagnant, new lines develop and change every lap and the track slowly errodes and dries out over the course of a single race. In applications such as this the gameplay will be enhanced greatly by "4D" (or whatever you want to call it, its not a spacial dimension)

[deadeyes99]

ps3 and its gimicks maeks me laugh.

[yoshifett]

was the silliest argument I've ever heard for the supposed technical superiority of the PS3

[djt23]

4D it is not possible
it is for next next gen

[Z501]

Take the Sims for example.With 4D you keep a plant in the sun(i.e.differnt plants)it grows in different ways (not scripted ways)You take it out the sun,it might grow,it might not.I could do SPORE all day.

[Truthiness]

Allegorithmic's ProFx procedural rendering package is actually a pretty slick technology and has, in fact, already appeared in games .. on the Xbox 360! Roboblitz is an arcade title that made use of this package to produce a visually impressive game within the size constraints of an XBLA title.

The claim that this is only possible on the PS3 is nonsense. In fact,
ProFx is part of Microsoft's XNA Tool Suite, so it is much more likely to be used in Xbox games rather than on the PS3. One very interesting capability of the technology is to encapsulate detailed textures into a small fraction of the customary storage size. So a more appropriate headline might have been "4D Graphics: Rendering Blu-Ray Unnecessary!"

[larry007]

All the videos on this page can be run perfectly and efficiently, without taking days to render, currently only on two specific platforms. Upscale PC’s and the PlayStation 3. Procedural techniques are demanding in terms of power, so the more power you get: the easier it is to render these 4D graphics dynamically. Programming for the PS3's eight Synergistic Processing Units (SPUs) can be a challenge sometimes, but there is definitely a lot to gain from the architecture, and the dynamic renders can be processed on the fly with the PlayStation 3.

The SPU’s certainly helps tremendously on top of the fast processing core for dynamic 4D graphics. The most important and unique ability of the architecture of the PS3, however, allows the Allegorithmic suite to continuously stream textures, using one or two SPUs to compute the textures to be given to the GPU to be displayed. This eliminates the need of having to stream that content from the Blu-ray.

***************************** ******************************* **

http://www.psu.com/4D-Graph...

GARBA** BOX 360 is now officially dead and is a very LOW POWERED and DEFECTIVE console

[Truthiness]

Just because you quoted a comment from the article doesn't make it true. Sorry, but not everything you read on a Playstation blog is true and this happens to be bogus. These statements are most certainly not from Allegorithmic.

[Vizion26]

How in the world is this going to enchance gameplay? Seriously. The focus on graphics is not what MOST gamers want. Gamers want interesting and immersive ways to interact with games. And that is mainly the reason why the DS and Wii are dominating.

[INehalemEXI]

I remember reading about this months ago , when its implemented In some thangs I'll be more interested.

[Maddens Raiders]

But everyone already knew about this and how the PS3 will dominate from 2008 and beyond.

Is this actual news ~ I've seen all of this before and know first hand how AWESOME Motorostorm is. Thanks for the reminder, but...

Next.

[roadkillers]

I still dont understand what 4D graphics are. Do they mean like the Sims? Or Oblivion?

[texism]

Well, I actually understand what they mean by "4D." It's not really 4D, just as 3D in games in not really 3D.

Theoretically speaking, 4D is the progression of time. If you could look at the third dimension from the 4th dimension, you would see it as one long block of a bunch of 3D dimension "frames" stacked together. So for example, we have a piece of iron exposed to air. If we watch that piece of metal from a 3D world, we would only see it rust, because we can only see one "frame" of 3D at a time. However, if we looked at it from the 4th dimension, we would see the whole stack of 3d frames from when the iron was new until it rusted.

Try to think of it like you were animating an object. To animate, you need several frames of animation right? When you put that animation together, you see the animation. Same thing. Time is like the program that animates the 3rd dimension to produce a 4th dimension. The 4th dimension is a bunch of 3D dimension "snapshots" ,if you will, all seperate from each other like the frames in an animation(for purposes of understanding). When the 3D dimensions are "animated" by time, you get the progression of time. For example 3d snap 1 could have a new piece of metal and 3d snap 10 could have the final rusted piece.When animated, you would see that metal rust (and the entire universe gradually change of course). It is obviously MUCH MUCH more complicated than that.

So essentially, what this "4D" for the PS3 is doing is that it is just emulating the effects of the 4th dimension on our world,which is the passage of time, i.e seeing something rust or seeing grass grow.

It's all emulation guys. It's not like you actually walk in the game with a plasma rifle. Same as it's not actually taking the 3D dimension and creating a line (or "block" since it is 3d) with it.

PM me if you need any more explanations!

Also by the way, as for what I think of 4D on the PS3, it's kind of unnecessary. I mean why take a game to 4D? It's a game. Besides, you can pretty much script a lot of stuff and still give off the same illusion.

[chaos-lockheart]

i think its from gamespot or somewhere eles, i forgot the link, but they said africa uses the 4D, its in realy time with trees and everything moving at the same time, like everyhting in the graphics has its own movements, it is posible to make that effect in game but will take almost half a yr just to make something move natural and alive, without the 4D program

[texism]

Yeah I heard too. I can't even begin to imagine the processing power needed for something like that. People dont even see the potential this thing has.

Imagine a game that has its own fourth dimension, just as many games have their own 3rd dimension (lol you don't see a covenant just suddenly melee you out of nowhere.)

In this game, you are just there. It would be the ULTIMATE sandbox game. Like you could single handedly cause the entire destruction of earth just by doing some things.

[Xbox is the BEST]

to hype 4-D by Sony. Believe if you must

[Crazyglues]

It just seems that the power of the PS3 is becoming more and more apparent, this is really a Amazing piece of hardware, I was already fascinated at the processing power and how the system could do parallel processing, but now it just seems as if everything Sony was saying about the system is true.

It's designed for the next 10 years of gaming and it's really an advance piece of hardware, that developers have only just begun to tap into the true power of the system. I expect big things in the 2nd generation of games for the PS3.

I can't wait to see games start to take advantage of this 4D, The water looked so amazing it just made me think of what bio-shock would look like if it was using 4D. Man that game would be unreal. Time will tell just how amazing that tech turns out to be as games start using it.

The power of the PS3 now this really is Living...

[Bathyj]

Its a bit of imformation passed on by a web site. Dont lose any sleep over it.

Halo is STILL out next month.

[Crazyglues]

That comment is priceless... I really don't know why people get so caught up in 360 vs PS3, I mean seriously why does it matter, if you enjoy your system then enjoy it. Period.

I mean it's not like you get any money every time an xbox 360 is sold so what's with all the hate Xbox360fanboys seriously why?

[thechadummduh]

i love all these people that disagree with everything the PS3 can do just becuase they think the 360 is better the only thing better about it right at this very moment is games but you cant possibly compare a systems games when one has bben out for 2 years(360) and 1 year (ps3) i mean honestly i think you guys are just trying to prove the 360 is better to yourselfs just to feel better abut buying the 360 instead of the ps3 which is obviously going to be better the 360 is too stupid

[Shaka2K6]

4D is the future its time to play B3yond only possible on Sony PS3.

[FunnyBone]

Dont you think the Ps3 should worry about getting there games to run at 60 fps and getting games released on time before thinking about how it might be possible to get SO CALLED 4d graphics running on it???

[DuceWilly947]

think abut that first

[Wii60_FTW]

Sony fangirls will believe anything!

[thechadummduh]

your an idiot just like i said before you guys wish you didnt buy that junk of the 360 and before you say anything esle i have all three systems as in ps3 wii and 360 and i do not like my 360 at all its made out of plastic and every year i have to buy a subscription to live when theres like 2 games even worthy of being played online and think about what your saying i mean your saying we'll believe anything and basically degrating yourself by saying fangirls are you serious thats all you could think of cmon dude ps3 owns your little lagbox please fix me goodbye and have a goodnight

[SofaKingReetodded]

and xbot trannies will pay for anything Gates asks them to.

Xbox360 : 9 million retards strong....lol

[heihoosilver]

you sonyfans already have 4d in your ps3.
it´s the time yopu put the game on, grab the pad and wait, then when the game starts you have your 4d in it´s all glory, you start crying because the games sucks. this is 4d, the time, the emotion and the realism of the cry and frustation. When you guys start believe that the ps3 and Xbox 360 can do almost exactly the same things? Sony blinds you with their next year and you guys always believe.
The games first.

[LiamFly]

Wow, great article, I had no idea. My 360 seems like more of a toy now. However, I am mostly a PC gamer so no biggie.

Wow, great article, I had no idea. My 360 seems like more of a toy now. However, I am mostly a PC gamer so no biggie.

Since I recently got into reading about theoretical astrophysics, I thought the term "4D gaming" was stupid, either someone had come up with a way to show the fourth dimension of space on a video game (impossible), or 4D simply meant time (Einstein's version of '4D'). But time is already shown in games, is it not? Otherwise they would be called Video Still Picture Games, in which nothing happened or changed with the passage of time. I recall a game called Blinx, in which the player could rewind and pause the game. So to claim that PS3 can game in '4D' seemed like a bogus claim. Until this article explained it to me. I was well-aware of procedural graphics but was not aware of their possible applications in 'animated' textures -- textures that change with time due to an algorithm.

This is not just a glimpse at what the PS3 can do, but what procedural technology can do, at where computer graphics are going.

BTW, I noticed someone posted that Imagining the 10th dimenion site. It's BS, pseudo-astrophyics.

[PimpHandHappy]

when the PS3 is helping me bend space and time you guys will all be doomed! I shall travel back in time with a M16 and cut down Bill Gates when he is just a pre-teen! U know u all hate pre-teens!

Then after i do that i will buy stock in Sony b4 the release of the PS2!

last but not least i will travel back in time just so i can fight myself when i was a young punk kid!

[smturner68]

Taken Directly from the profxengine's website...

Latest News
ProFX to be part of Microsoft's XNA Tool Suite
2007, March 26

So, I wonder why people quote the obvious Fanboy who wrote the PSU article. This whole thread and the comments are like a bunch of 4th graders talking.

Nowhere on the actual website of the people who did these videos does it say the 360 can't do this. It was made for 360 AND pc then later implemented for the ps3. Some of you guys are so incredibly clueless.
Nobody should comment about the ps3 over the 360 in regards to this '4D' until they read the entire website about profx. It is profxengine dot com

It's all about the 360 and PC! The new comments are that they're now going to make it work for the ps3. I do feel sorry for you guys that obviously can't afford both systems and have to bash the other. WTF! They're both awesome. If you can't see that, then you're blind. A blind fanboy and you know it!

Now that some of you have heralded this new 'revalation' as the death to the 360, what will you think when you read that it was built for the 360 BEFORE the ps3? I'm flabbergasted at the ignorance of some fanboys. LEARN TO READ AND INVESTIGATE before you run your mouths. Now eat some crow.

[Captain Tuttle]

4D graphics is a MARKETING term! 1 step up from 3D...that's it! Some people will believe anything.

[OutpostCommand]

I read the first few comments, and I already smell the stench of uninformed idiocy among many commentators.

Look, the fourth dimention is time.
This can be interpreted in many ways - for example, you could see all the sides of one object at once.
Or, it could simply be aging. In this case, its aging. In other words, another factor for ingame objects would be age. Ingame time would affect the objects.

I expect PC to utilise this first though.
Look, as much as im a Sony fan, we must admit that the PS3 has already been surpassed in all areas by PCs (apart from CPU power) already.

I think this would be ideal for multicore processors - one core could always handle a thread to do with time. The PS3, due to its high-number of SPEs (not technically 'cores', but similar'), would probably be ideal for such applications.

The problem with implementing a fourth dimention into games is realism - things take a long time to show significant signs of aging - a barrel doesnt rust over 3 hours.
So, the only practical application I see of 4D is perhaps in a game like GTA, where time runs at a 1min:1hour ratio.

Significant thought would have to come into 4D before its implemented - there is no use just throwing it in, and putting an extra burden on your system if you will not see results.

[heihoosilver]

And now, the future
Imagine your game environment evolving as time passes by.
Imagine this bathroom getting dirtier every time the gamer gets in the room.

ProFX gives you the opportunity to recompute the textures of your scenes according to time, weather, impact or any other input, and make them change organically.

from 4d section

[Daxx]

...

[BodyBag]

Nice

[darkequitus]

Naked Sky Entertainment's RoboBlitz™ is the first Unreal Engine 3 based XBox 360 Live Arcade game to use ProFX. Because of our middleware, most of the textures are fully procedural and the entire game fits within 50MB.

As an example, the 73 full materials (about 200 maps: diffuse, specular, normal, etc.) of the first level, representing 80MB of DXT compressed content, are being generated in 4 seconds at load-time. The ProFX description file weighs only 280KB!

[Nervsys]

I'm looking forward to comparing PS3 games to watching paint dry.

Or maybe the they could show us all the PS3 fanboys going grey waiting for a game worth playing.

But sorry, more seriously, this is the most stupid concept i have heard for a long time.

Does anyone remember Silent hill? You went in a room, then returned later and it was different. I don't remember anyone saying that was some kind of 4d.

And to suggest that there is something special about the cell processor that makes it capable of something that is not possible on another type of processor is just dumb fanboy garbage.

Some of the Pro-Sony news is sounding really desperate these days.

[OutpostCommand]

Its one thing for the developer to manually change something, and its another for it to age.
But whatever, I wont bother to educate you - many of us here are fans of a console, but you are just a simple ignorant 'fantard'.
Please, start acting more maturely. You may even be taken more seriously.

Besides, you dont get anything for defending your console so rigorously anyway.

I have a PS3, and im a bit of a Sony fan, but I wont die defending them -
for example, I will admit that my PS3 is little more than a dust collector these days due to a lack of games (this will however change when new good games start coming (November-ish)).

Just because this is good news for the PS3, which is something you seemingly dont have, doesnt mean you have to bash it. After all, we are all gamers, regardless of platform.

[BoneMagnus]

The PS3 version comes out later as it is - anywhere from two weeks to months later. Adding this feature will delay games further and increase development costs - money they will likely not recoup.

The video looked great - and I hope some first or second party games implement this. It reminds me of the promises of Fable from Molyneaux when it was first revealed.

[supnub5]

good week for ps3, and yes it's possible on it, now xbots please shut up you know will this make you shut up:current 360 exclusives are better then ps3 exclusives.

[Cat]

i look forward to seeing devs put 4d to use, though frankly i'm more pleased by realistic in game physics, interactive environments etc.

[tk]

What we are likely to see in 4d for the next year or so will be tech demo's. Then we will see a few attempts in a some games experimenting with it. Some Game Engines will start taking advantage of it - but limited. Some game will come out that focuses on it, and it will likely become a cult favorite - but will likely shape the way forward.

When the next gen starts - MS will be talking up 4d and their "innovative" use of it - along with their offering "value" to the customer with the addition on the BR drive.

Check on a number of previous technologies - this is just how it works.

For the MS fans - you will drool over some PS3 techs being released - and actually rightly comment that it a "gimmick" - because in the beginning all new technologies is gimmicks. There will not be much use except for enjoying a few moments of a tech demo - but still the source of secret envy. Some of it will be easily duplicated with extra textures - but it will cut into the DVD space available.

For the PS3 fans - it will give a few moments that can be pointed to with pride in the technical superiority of the PS3 - but other than a few places where it will dazzle - not of much use for a few years to come.

But after than the few moments that will be proudly pointed at, with envy downplayed from the other camp, it will usher in a new generation of technology. Don't expect too much in the infancy stage - which is needed nonetheless. It is new, it is shiny, it will have a few uses, but in future at some point it will become as standard as 3d rendering. It will be limited in the beginning because of the budget limitations but when engines can cope with it, and when a number of reference implementations is available - it will become standard. But this is 5 years off at least.

[millertime8306]

Theres another benefit besides environments changing over time, and that is texture space. While procedural textures are processor intensive, they are very cheap from a memory standpoint. As they indicated at the end of that "Bayou" video, all the textures in that entire scene required a total of 319kB.

Freakin internet freaked out on me and now my reply is a comment at the end of the list. Bleh

[d3l33t]

thank you, that's exactly what this article is implying. It's easy to get the article confused with the wrong under lying message because of how poorly it's written. It has nothing to do with the dispute in terms of 'time' because that is easily mocked with animation, but the new way the animations are being composed, smaller amounts of memory and space are needed to give a wider 'ahh' factor. Leaving plenty of room for game developers to refine even more aspects of the game. In other words, good news for us, the gamer!

[millertime8306]

Thanks for seeing the big picture. Bubble for ju

[s8anicslayer]

well if there are current games that run at 4d, how is it only the ps3 that is capable?

[xboxFANBOY]

Cell and RSX combine = 4D graphics.

You just wait and see.

[SaMiR111]

maked by ps3 fan boy----xbox 360 -- sharders models 4 and direct 9+ comptbl by directx10...ps 3= openl and sharders model 3 baaaaa