By 2009-2010 PS3 AAA Titles Will Be Too Massive For Dvd's

In an article hosted by by crave.cnet.com titled "Rockstar's mysterious PS3-exclusive game may only fit on a Blu-ray disc". An interesting quote is mentioned in the article. They are quoted saying

"Of course, if the game is as great as Rockstar says it is, we might not see it until 2009 or 2010. By then, any AAA PS3 game will be so massive in scope that it won't fit on a DVD, only a Blu-ray disc."

There is no official word confirming this. However it has been mentioned time and time again that future games will be massive. Could this be Sony's PS3+Blu-Ray combo showing face?

[Meus Renaissance]

It's called logical sense

[GaMr-]

I wasnt going to post anymore but this kid is getting on my nerves. You don't contribute jack to N4G. All you do is troll around and report PS3 stories. Im not sure your reason but its pretty obnoxious. I changed the title I also highlighted a completely different aspect of the story. I also credited the original title and article. I have been posting here forever. Who are you again. EXACTLY. The Admins/Mods no my style and the majority of people here love it. Cause I make the articles worth reading without adding or subtracting from them. I'm not attacking you just educating you a bit. the names -GaMr

Dont you forget it.

BTW: Sorry Meus Interpretation I replied to you so I can post this at the top. No hard feeling budd. later N4G

[reaperxciv]

i'll wait for the sweetspot to get a ps3 probably in 2009. no sense getting one now

[WilliamRLBaker]

you really educated no one...all you did was show that you get pissy when some one criticizes you......

as for the article...in 2-3 years last i checked sony was having devs (paying them) say theyre games couldn't fit on dvd now....hmmm maybe if these devs used good compression techniques and stopped using uncompressed sound and hd cgi then theyed have no prob with dvd.....who needs 15 hours of cgi in a game that half the time doesn't contribute to story...

[TheExecutive]

As gaming progresses so must the format that it is put on. Its that simple. Remember on the PC when 3.5" floppy discs used to hold games? When cartridges used to hold the games on consoles? Well, if there is any doubt whether a new format is needed, it is. Games are becoming massive, therefore they need the space.

[Captain Tuttle]

More coding means more money.

[Delive]

Devs will have a better grip with programing on the systems, More tools will be available making the process easier, more streamlined and as mentioned, the user base "Should" be larger, offering more profit for games released. I don't expect "Standard" games to exceed the $60 point.

[Captain Tuttle]

Think they'll have better compression techniques?

[Delive]

Compression is always getting more efficient. 1 thing I always wonder about as far as compression, is there a benefit (Other that for audio) in NOT compressing data? I know audio looses a little with compression, but is data easier to read/load in an uncompressed state? Does it load faser without needing to be decompressed?

Man, Someone Disagreed with you for that question? I guess I'll be getting one for noticing it.

[Snake_Doctor]

Massive... Damage?

Tuttle, by 09 there should be sizable differences in install bases and maybe sales to a percentage of owners at that time will give them their expected profits even at current (60/game) prices. I could be wrong though, tough to get my future predictor working correctly these days.

[Mr Murda]

I just posted a response in another topic about this. This is all about Sony's strategy with the PS3, cause they really are in it for an 8-10 year life cycle. By 2010 MS and Nintendo will be close to releasing their next gen systems and I expect them both to turn to some type of next gen storage format at that point. Do games need BR or HD DVD right now? No, not really...but in three or four years they definitely will.

[crazyman]

the only problem with that strategy is that is 4-5 years time when the next-gen Xbox comes out is that it will make the PS3 look like crap in comparison. technically Sony didn't have to release the PS3 and could have stuck with that for 10 years.

[Real Gambler]

Crazyman: The PS2 is still selling. The gamecube is still selling (ok, I don't know why!). The PS3 is quite obviously there for the long run.

But many people who bought the 360 had bought the original xbox and got burn because it had such a short life. Now you're saying that the 360 will also have a short life and third gen will beat the PS3???

Well, if there's a third gen, sure the hardware will be great, but do you seriously think that those guys who got burn by the original, then got burn again with the 360 short life (your quote!) will jump on the third gen??? I'm pretty sure most of them will wake up and find that having to change consoles every 4 years is more expensive than they originally thought! (And that's not adding the $50/year to go online...)

[SlappyMcTaint]

Sure, the 360 owners will buy the xbox720, or whatever MS will call it to sound more powerful and bigger than PS3/4. I mean, they keep buying 360's even after people from M$ have said that 100% of them have a defect, and will RROD sometime within 2-3 years. Most people are lemmings, doing whatever the press/media tell them is cool.

I'll bet the next 'Box will be released in 2010, to once again get a jump on Sony's next next gen machine. And that one will be rushed to market too. Question is, will M$ use HDDVD as a standard (if it's still around) or Blu-Ray, or their own proprietary HD format?

[TheExecutive]

I really dont think so. I would be looking to 2009 for a new xbox. It will have a new format of some sort, of course it will. MS would have put one in this time around but they didnt want to wait for it to finish developing. Then, they have a bunch of 360 fans defending their position say, "its not needed now". But it is needed now and its going to be needed for the future.

MS rushed their console to grab an early lead. All for market share. The funny thing is, is that they arent gaining market share. Not one bit. Its been almost 2 years and they are sitting at 10 million consoles. They had sold 24 million in 4 yrs with the original xbox. You do the math.

So where do you suppose all of the ps2 owners are going to go when they decide to move to a next-gen platform(the real migration hasnt started yet, it should start this winter and head into full steam in late '08)? Something that is going to be discontinued in two years? Or are they going to buy a product that they are going to be able to use for years and years to come? My bet is on the latter.

[The Wood]

ill make that 12 - nil

cumon guys if you think the majority of people are just gunna buy the new xbox so soon then your crazy 4 real. MS shareholders wouldnt accept something like that in a hurry.
Fanboys would but sharholders, no thanks

[Premonition]

If someone denied this then I guess devs love using games on 3.5 floppies lol, I remember those days.

[SmokeyMcBear]

1.44 MB for the win

[cartman313]

Remember the 5.25" ones before that?

[The Wood]

dont 4get about tape

LOAD ""

[ben hates you]

when games don't fit on one dvd, you put it on two and get on with your life

IMO NOT YOURS

[kurruptor]

Too bad it is not that simple. That's why you only see this on certain types of games.

[Real Gambler]

1- Put them on 17 CDrom since your logic is so great...

or

2- Put them on 7 millions floppy disks... After all, you would get a great price by buying so many...

Sure, it may be hard to get back to your life after inserting 7 millions floppys, but if you think this make sense, I guess it's ok.

[MarioFromTexas]

and yet one console offer a nextgen format at the same price....People talk about compression and multi dvds like it was cheap to do so,,,,that costs money which no developer wants to lose....

[Loudninja]

So this is not really news, its all ready begun

[SilvaSurfa]

I guess I can see where this going. I never was one into the whole format validating discussion. But I just never saw how Sony went wrong with Blu-ray intergration. I think and this is only my opinion Microsoft may have cut it too close with DVD storage. I mean they will get there money's worth out of it for the time being but im sure its being redlined to death or will be soon. How long before the ole DVD motor blows. While Blu-Ray hasnt even shifted to second Gear yet. Thats just my opinion. I say

"Always better to have and not need Than to Need and not have"

In this case. Media Storage.

[ben hates you]

HD-DVD drives were more readily available before the launch, i am certain microsoft would of added it, but it wasn't ready, that was what delayed the ps3, and of course ms will defend its choice of using DVD9

[supnub5]

exclusives are already using blu-ray space.

[THC CELL]

bigger the better

[tehcellownu]

I believe so, more games will be bigger and right now some devlopers is even complaining that dvd isnt enough for them..games will get bigger and compression will not always work..

[MrWegman]

I will be getting a PS3 in 2009, until then I am happy with my 360 and Wii... In 2009 I'll be able to pick up a PS3 for $250.

[Keyser]

As long as your happy, that's what you should do. I'm sure your friends will have a PS3 so it won't be any big deal.

[V2oom]

And it will use a format we haven't even invented yet which will hold 1000 GB per disc. And then PS3 owners will still be complaining about something.

[CrazzyMan]

i don`t think, that earlier then november 2010 new xbox will appear. =)
but more space is needed already now, in 2007.

+ M$ gaming devision still haven`t made money on xbox project, only lost around 5-6 bln. $.
so, releasing new xbox and losing next 1 bln. $ is not the smartest move.

[cuco33]

THAT is when my 360 won't get as much daily usage and the ps3 wills tart getting some sort of steady daily usage so bring on the games, bring on the 'needed game space'

i'll still be playing forza 2 on 360 which takes up only 1 disk and the fact gt5 won't be out until 2048 ;)

game NOW, not later

[felidae]

uuupsi

[V2oom]

Check kkrieger out

http://www.theprodukkt.com/

Its a full 3D game with sound and its only 96k.

[Premonition]

People bring up the topic about why not just put it on 2-4 disc, if the average human had the choice of having their content all on one disc vs having it on more then one, I'd be the smarter person and choose the 1 disc. Im pretty sure PC users would love to have to install games like WoW using just one disc rather then 4-5, I mean really, the only reason people would choose to go with 2 or more is because GUESS WHAT THEY HAVE NO CHOICE AND WE DO. I mean really stop crying. And the reason why Microsoft didnt put HD DVD in their system was because they werent to sure of where the format war might end up, but guess what like always sony has to grab the bulls by the horn and try it out and see out it works, just like when they put DVD in the PS2, and guess what DVD sales have since gone up shortly after, and guess what the same thing is happening now.

denial:1 and counting... next

UPDATE: BREAKING NEWS MGS4 coming to XBOX360!!!!!!!!
http://www.adamcg.com/newdu...

[genix13]

That picture is hilarious, bubbles for you.

[Loudninja]

Lair
Uncharted
MGS4

and us are already to big for DVD, so its already started

[Douche]

KILLZONE 2

[THC CELL]

and if they get topped well they do have 200 gig cds coming by then

There is no win for DVD or Hddvd now

[mintrieri]

Way to wildly speculate without any facts, how controversial of you. Firstly, until the game has been partially made, there is no way to tell how much space it will require, and there is no way they are in full production yet on Noire until GTA4 is in the can. So, prognosticate all you want. I'm predicting that Sony's ten-year strategy will fail tragically and any exclusivity with MGS4, FFXIII and Noire will go multi-platform in time no matter how many DVDs it takes.

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

Ten years will happen the last game for the playstaion was released in 2005 for the ps1...it can happen bud..they wont fail and for some of others there are BD that can hold 500 gb..

[mintrieri]

This article is claiming something it can't possibly know for the reason I outlined, just as I 'predicted' failure of Sony's 10 year plan. Both are ridiculous statements. See?

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

What people don't want to understand is that the BD isn't in the PS3 to sells more movies. Just like PSOne don't take cartridges to make money to BMG.

Better games, need more space. You can't put Xbox games on CD unless you make massive (not damage) restrictions.

I'm not saying that is impossible to make good games on Wii or X360, au contrair, I'm saying that giving more space to developers is ONE way to improve gaming experiences (and that is the reason for costumer to always have a "next generation"). There is many other ways to improve gaming experience, like make a new controller, implement a new way to go multiplayer, using better graphics to improve realism and detail level, using most channels in sound to give you the impression to be in...

I would not doubt that someday someone will take ahead that old prototype that make your TV smells as the colors it presents. And, if you think a bit, make it in a software is way to more functional and exact then doing this by colors (this is brown as a tree trunk or as sh!t?)

[silent ninja]

devs will take advantange of whatever sony gives them IF they have the resources, but lets not forget they are ccompression techniques as well.....but i don't what to turn this into vs thread

[Odion]

Have you read what ID has done?

Its called Megatextures and it compresses detailed graphics into 500 mb.

Plus if you think games are actually going to get bigger then 20 gigs in the next 5 years your on crack, the only reason the PS3 blue ray is needed (except) for MGS4 is because nothing is compressed its all there. They just let the code waste as much space as they want.

[Premonition]

I commend the people that atleast have knowledge of how technology changes, while i feel sorry for the future posters and past posters who will try anything to downplay the fact that space is not needed in the years to come, and you cant do nothing about it, its life get over it. Do you know how much gaming would suck if we still had games going on to 1.44MB floppy disks or the BIG 'OL 3.5 floppy disks? I mean really why get mad at the truth, the only ones that will disagree are in denial, and I would love to see how many press disagree because you have just proven my case.
I as a person know when its time to admit to something, but it sickens me when people will go to their grave acting a fool and not admitting they are wrong. For examples tape cassettes, those things were over taken buy CD's you know why? because first off it holds more and second, you could skip to any track on it at anytime, without rewinding or forwarding where you wanted to hear your song. You see where im getting at? probably not since you will downplay it from now till people said they told you so, and even then who knows.

Denial: 1 and counting.... next

[Shadow Flare]

are already too big for dvd's. The 5 min Heavenly Sword demo was 1 gig alone. And games will only get bigger over time aswell.

If you look at it with pure common sense, dvd was a stupid choice for a HD console. HD consoles need HD formats. Why did MS choose dvd? Because they HAD to. They wanted to release the 360 before the ps3 and when they released it, HD-DVD wasn't a finalised format. So they were stuck with it. That's all there is to it. And some people say 'ps3 is a bluray player'. Well that's freakin what it should be using!

Maybe people aren't seeing the difference in 360 games at the moment. But give it a few years and its gonna become even more of an issue. Rockstar's already complained about the use of dvd's, Bizarre Creations has complained while devs are praixing the choice of blu-ray because it holds nothing back and allows for the devs creations to be realised exactly how they intended.

And there are some games that you just cannot use multiple dvd's with. Project Gotham for example, what are you gonna do, change discs to race in London, and then change discs again to race in New York? It shouldn't have to be like that, devs shouldn't be restricted like that because in the end it hurts the game

[tk]

Much time is now spend to cut down the space required. If they had the space they could include the content without spending time to compress, cut down, strip content.

[mintrieri]

I'm sorry but this is not correct. It takes much more time to create a texture from scratch or capture a sound than it does to compress that texture or sound. There are certainly advantages to Blu-Ray but development time is absolutely not one of them. Creating a game with MORE of everything will take MORE time. It is only logical. Cheers.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

well let's just hope these AAA titles are abundant and not far and in between

[Retro-Virus]

I don't know why people say we don't need Blu-ray or HD-DVD for games ?

I mean apart from Video there is also something called "Uncompressed PCM" which when combined with Video definitely needs something around 30gigs.

Please, all those who oppose Blu-ray or HD-DVD a normal DVD-9 game cannot do 7.1 channel Uncompressed PCM and have DTS-HD, Dolby True HD and the game itself.

Because sound is a huge aspect which may be overlooked by many.

[celticlonewolf]

I mean theres no question that the more space you have the easyer it is to develop for and the more stuff you can put into a game the question is was ms wrong in not including a new format drive in the 360. iT all depends on how you look at it I mean first of ms new they were going up against a gaint in sony when it comes to teh games devsion and they needed all the help they could get from the 1 year head start and the prise point diffrence 200 dollars is a lot. I dont think ms went into this gen looking to last 8-10 years I really think what they wanted to do was to gain more market shair and take some of sony pie so to speak. They came out with a system that in my opinion is really good and at the moment can keep pace game wise with the ps3(look at all the cool games coming to the 360 without the fanboy goggles on). I think that when we see the ps3 begin to strech its legs and have a larger install base to teh point where publishers will not have to worry as much about having to make so many games on both systems just to get there money back ms will release a new updated system that can handle more than the ps3. They will have this bigger install base than last gen(thats there plan anyway) and maybe compeat better with a more expensive system than they could have this gen. Now the question is will people feel riped off cause they spent 399 or 299 for a system that lasts around 7 years or will they be fine with getting a nother one time will tell all I know is that I have both systems and I cant beleive how good ive got it(mass effet, heavenly sword, ratchet and clank, assasins creed, bioshock, lair, call of duty 4) I mean I recon I got my moneys worth with the games I just named right there this year. Good gaming everyone

[killercam19]

by 2009-2010 i'm gonna be wanting a new system like a new xbox an PS cus by then the 360 and ps3 will be becoming outdated

[daveman3]

wait for 2009? games on ps3 are already too big for the 360, a big one coming up is MGS4

[celticlonewolf]

oops didnt mean 7 years but 5 to my post above

[razer]

Solves a lot of space issues. I find it funny how people don't even know how big an actaul game is but can state that it wouldn't fit on DVD9, it's all pure speculation. The only thing we have is a comment from Rockstar and Bizarre and appearently both have over come them.

[achira]

the methond you mention can not create every texture, for natural things like trees and so on its suited, but they are many things where it is not suited and therefor normal textures are more important, and therefore you will need space. vertex data needs space too, there are many things which use much space, not only textures, in these cases you cant use the mentioned method.

[ALIEN]

I think we need BR and HD-DVD for games. WHY? because games are going to get bigger n bigger, n every detail in the game takes space.

[ElementX]

I have ps3 and I enjoy the fact that I won't have to switch discs, however I also have 360 and don't mind swapping discs halfway through a game. Most games are linear, except for sandbox games and some huge open RPGs. I dunno, i think people are getting lazy about swapping. I really don't care either way.

[warfed]

you don't get it, what about other games (sport, racing, sandbox) that won't fit, devs won't make them multi discs they will just take out features to make it fit on one disc, and you won't get the whole experience.

[ElementX]

I don't play sports or racing. I mentioned sandbox. I get it. Furthermore, with this whole PGR4 won't fit deal... you don't need to redraw entire cities for day night. Can't they use shaders and what not? Play RPGs and it changes from day to night without having to draw seperate environments.

[CodeMonkey]

CHANGE YOUR PICTURE TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN YOUR STUPID FACE. I HATE YOU

[ElementX]

double post

[ElementX]

Lets see your face. I have nothing to hide. Do you have to sink to personal attacks because of an icon? Like I care if you hate me. You act like an immature middle schooler trying to be all tough. BTW, telling me in 3 different threads that you hate my face just shows your intellectual level.

[SmokeyMcBear]

haha this is too funny... (J.P. from Grandma's Boy).... " I hate your face"...

[heroman711]

code monkey that was hilarious LOL

[ALIEN]

This website is going crazy. People are talking about faces now.

DAMN HATERS!

[360Crusader]

Well I dont know about all of this, but Mass Effect looks pretty sweet and thats only using 1 dvd

[freeza]

lair 25 gigs

rfom 16 gigs

dont know how big motorstorm is but i know it cant fit on a dvd

[Figboy]

Motorstorm was 15 gigs, i believe.

*edit to 360Crusader; Mass Effect indeed looks pretty wicked, but according to the devs, they're having a hard time fitting it *ONTO that 1 DVD, and are pushing the limits of the disc already.

could be why we aren't seeing the game until November, instead of next month, like it was originally slated.

[tplarkin7]

The PS3 won't be around in 2009.

[Mucudadada]

That makes sense because you know...it's only sold 6 million units by now... *rolls his eyes at the stupidity of this comment*

[Figboy]

Floppy Discs < Hard Discs < Cartridges < CDs < DVDs < HD DVD < Blu Ray

to me, it's really rather simple.

try fitting Ninja Gaiden (the original X Box game), on a floppy disc.

you can't? why is that? wait, wait, don't tell me...um, not enough room? DING DING DING! correct.

try fitting Grand Theft Auto III (PS2 version), on a NES cartridge.

you can't? why is that? you know the answer to this.

why is it so hard for people to understand that the requirements for gaming *GROWS with each generation.

better hardware equals better games (or is Gears of War not as good as Contra on the NES?). a larger capacity storage mediums helps this along even more.

the truth of the matter, is that Microsoft limited the 360, which is most certainly capable of producing some quality games.

Sony took a big risk, but it's looking to pay off.

prior to the PS2 launching, people dismissed the inclusion of the DVD drive:
"we don't *NEED DVD!"
"we want a *GAMES CONSOLE, not a MOVIE PLAYER, Sony!"
"DVD is just making the PS2 more expensive!"
"These launch titles aren't even *FILLING a DVD! They're on CD!"

i remember these quotes, i was 19 at the time, and i didn't quite see the hubbub about DVD either, but i just shrugged it off as, well, they know what they're doing, i suppose.

after seeing my first DVD however, i was sold on it.

it goes without saying that DVD became the standard medium for games for the past 6 years, in large part due to the PS2. why? because games eventually got too big for CDs.

Ico shipped on a CD, back in 2001. Shadow of the Colossus, made by the same company, shipped on a DVD in 2004.

Lego Star Wars, shipped on a CD in, i think, 2004 also.

Lego Star Wars II, shipped on a DVD in 2006.

all i know is that PS3 developers, whether first, second, or third party, don't have to worry about cramming things onto a disc for the PS3 version, or cutting features because they won't fit.

they'll cut stuff if they don't have the *TIME, but not because they are, physically, being held back by the hardware (and in this case, the disc medium, not the hardware itself, but it's damn near the same thing).

the X Box 360 is being defined, not by it's incredible power, but by a DVD drive.

while the skies the limit with the PS3, thanks to "limitless" Blu Ray, the 360 can only go as far as a DVD9 will let it.

a multi-disc solution is only feasible for linear games, (ie, Blue Dragon), but is causing problems for larger games (ie, Mass Effect, and GTAIV, which are causing their respective developers a little bit of grief trying to work around the DVD9 issue).

it's a shame to me, that the 360's vast potential is being hampered by something as little as disc space.

fans of open-world games (which is a large market, as nearly every game released nowadays seems to be openworld: Assassin's Creed, GTAIV, The Getaway, Mercenaries 2, and these are early next gen sandbox games), will probably find themselves gravitating towards the PS3, as stories of DVD9 limitations and cut features and levels start to become more prevalent (and they will, especially for sandbox games).

why should i be *HAPPY that i'm only getting 75% of a game that i paid $60 for, only to have to shell out another $10-$20 for the additional content that got cut from the original release because of *SPACE? it's absurd.

i understand paying for additional content that wasn't in the original release because of *TIME (ie, the Shivering Isles expansion for Oblivion), but paying for content that was *SUPPOSED to be included from the get go is preposterous.

i'll stick with my PS3 for now, even if the quality games are finally starting to show their face. it can only go up from here, as the first year hurdle is always the hardest to jump. come this time next year, i'll be knee deep in Uncharted, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Folklore, Ratchet and Clank, MGS4, Killzone 2, Infamous, White Knight Story, GTAIV and LA Noire to care about the dry first 8 months of the PS3's life.

[Mucudadada]

I agree with everything you said. Bubble for you.

[SlappyMcTaint]

One of my biggest fears of multiplatform games like GTA4 and others is how much the DVD9 format will blunt and hold back the PS3 experience. It seems multiplatform games are made to be identical regardless of platform. So I've got all this HD space STANDARD, and Blu-Ray STANDARD, that isn't being taken advantage of because somebody didn't plan more than 2 years into the future. I want the game to be next gen, not 75% of next gen because somebody rushed out their console to beat the competition, instead of making it the best they could. I want them to use the PS3's potential as much as they can, or have time for. But instead, we PS3 owners are only going to get a game that is limited by the 360's potential.

[The Wood]

wanted to type all of that myself. Can i add this to remind us all why we move on

*bows head*

[Bloodmask]

Blu ray to industry standards such as DVD, CD, and cartridge.

There is NO comparison. These were already established formats. There was no format war. To compare them is irrelevant.

If you can't see that Blu ray is in PS3 to win the format war. You are a fanboy or an idiot. PS3 makes up over 95% of Blu ray players sold.

Blu ray might be a benefit to gaming but that is just a coverup for Sony to win the bigger picture of the Movie Industry. The "only" reason Blu ray has studio support is bc of PS3.

What if Blu ray does fail. Any product can fail. Will it only be used for games and not movies? Put that in your thinking cap.

[warfed]

man you are so right fuk sony! lets all stick to crippled games on DVD9!!! last gen FTW!!!!

[actionjackson]

Blu Ray can't fail. The answer is that as long as the PS3 uses it, (and Sony Pictures backs it - the largest movie studio) Blu Ray will always be a contender (if not winner). No other format of hardware forces you to include a next gen player other than Sony. So as long as the PS3 sells units, which they have sold 4 million, then there are at least that many BR players in the market. They are projecting to sell at least 80-100 million PS3’s in 10 years. The PS3 doesn't only promote the player, it makes it cheaper to produce and that is huge for Sony since they are leading the way for BR. When you produce millions of something, the cost of production per unit decreases. Well, if Sony does this first, they are going to make a ton of money on manufacturing alone. Remember, Sony's manufacturing facilities are not exclusive to Sony. They produce like type players for many companies.

Didn't people say the DVD was too expensive when it came out? Didn't people compare then? And SONY was backing the DVD format!!!!!!!!!! DVD didn’t just make it because there were stand alone players. Those stand alones were originally $900 (Sony was the first to release) when they first came out. What made the format was that TV companies started to include them in all-in-one TV’s and everyone started making standalone players, which reduced the cost. The cherry on top was the PS2 with over 100 million sold. Just imagine how much Sony made with the DVD format disks. So they are at it again. Once the cost is down to a cheap level for consumers, how would they not pick Blu Ray over DVD. That's why you compare them! When a BR player is going for $150 and the DVD for $75, the difference is incremental and people will chose BR. But to get to that point, Sony has to manufacture a ton of PS3's to flood the BR manufacturing. They have locked the industry and they know it.

@ warfed
I don't think people see you're being sarcastic.

[heroman711]

dosent really take a rocket scientist to figure this out

[aiphanes]

DVD-9 only holds 8.5 GIGs of data
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Bluray holds up to 50 GIGS of data
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[ElementX]

Yes Bluray is the future (for a time), yes, MS made a mistake by not including it. Enough said. There's no point in arguing the point any further. All I know is that there are good AAA exclusives coming to both systems, regardless of the format.

[CodeMonkey]

Bluray is Sony garbage. HD DVD has better features that Bluray cannot offer. I don't want to hear how it can hold more...its not needed as of now. The only thing that all of that extra space is going to do is let people fill up the dvd with more crap that no one watches. Same with games...you PS3 fanboys talk up bluray for your games. All that space is not needed. You are only going to get more engine scripts...to watch...not interact with. While i'm still on the topic of filling things up with crap...what the heck happened to your face? It looks stupid

[SofaKingReetodded]

don't drop the mouse....lol

[TheExecutive]

I really dont think so. I would be looking to 2009 for a new xbox. It will have a new format of some sort, of course it will. MS would have put one in this time around but they didnt want to wait for it to finish developing. Then, they have a bunch of 360 fans defending their position say, "its not needed now". But it is needed now and its going to be needed for the future.

MS rushed their console to grab an early lead. All for market share. The funny thing is, is that they arent gaining market share. Not one bit. Its been almost 2 years and they are sitting at 10 million consoles. They had sold 24 million in 4 yrs with the original xbox. You do the math.

So where do you suppose all of the ps2 owners are going to go when they decide to move to a next-gen platform(the real migration hasnt started yet, it should start this winter and head into full steam in late '08)? Something that is going to be discontinued in two years? Or are they going to buy a product that they are going to be able to use for years and years to come? My bet is on the latter.

[Ludwig]

Blu-Ray read speed only allows making "longer" games .. not "prettier/heavier" games .. (No Uncompressed PCM btw .. not enough bandwith.. and no .. the HD won't help much or it will ask a 5-10GB free buffer.) ..

And considering longer games is the SINGLE thing developers won't be able to do this gen due to production costs rise .. a 2h 3D movie costs over 60kk to make .. a game long enough to use a whole blu-ray would prolly cost 100kk

[Ludwig]

Another important fact is that the more technologicaly advanced the game .. the SMALLER it gets .. the light is generated by the console and not saved in maps on the disk .. the terrains .. the detail textures .. the ANIMATION (See Euphoria.) .. and all this techology will make your game worth much more space then it uses.

Considering the PS3 is still highly depending on "cached" technology (see Killzone2 textured lightning .. ) blu-ray is helping him .. but 360 does it all realtime in most of his 2nd/3rd gen games.

[progx]

"but do you seriously think that those guys who got burn by the original, then got burn again with the 360 short life (your quote!) will jump on the third gen???"

Umm...YES. It took sony 3 consoles to make one problem free. The third generation xbox will be the same. And anyway the same thing could be said about the people who were "burned" by the original playstation and ps2.

EDIT: @ultimate gamer= Oh really, and you know this how? You work for MS? Yeah didn't think so. Honestly though, WHO CARES if sh*t is on multiple disks.

[UltimateGamer230823]

a new xbox in only 3 years? there is no way thats gonna happen. they will be lucky to be making money on the system by then. maybe by 2013 but no way 2010.

and secondly. there is only an advantage to having more storage space. you can say all you want about compression. but once the devs get all the kinks out of developing for the PS3 they will be more efficent and will be able to pack way more detail and lenth into a game than on a DVD9. seriously, look back to the PS2, the early games like The Getaway look horrible, trust me i still have it somewhere (i think under my bed) but then look at God of War II. Huge difference, its all about giving time to the devs to work out the kinks and be efficent. I know there is a large time frame between the two games but I really didnt wanna think to hard about every game ive played for PS2. but it still makes a point.

within a year the devs will be efficent and the games will show the difference, how storage space will matter.

yeah. go ahead and try to put PGR4 on 2 disks. have fun playin certain cars and certain tracks on different disks, ill pass on that. I know they will stick with one disk so have fun with a choped up game, you think different times of day dont matter? its little things like that that make a decient game into a good game. have fun, ill spend the extra hundred bucks and get the most outta my gaming.

[TheExecutive]

If ms waits until 2013 for a new xbox they are in trouble. I mean big trouble. They rushed the 360 out the door in hopes of gaining market share. They failed on that aspect. In a year or two PS3 games will far surpass anything on the 360. I think it would be a grave error to leave the 360 on the market for another 6 yrs. They just didnt build the console for the long haul. They built it for the short term, and it hasnt paid off yet.

If you remember correctly the xbox never made a single cent. It was in the red for every quarter of its existence. That sure has hell didnt stop them from building the 360. They will do the same with this generation.

[tehcellownu]

Microsoft is probaly goin to let the 360 die in 2009...they are not in it for 10 years like sony..MIcrosoft not goin to continue to support it especially after they know their wastin billion dollars on it and not makin a penny back..

[THC CELL]

x box is like a throw away tampon to Microsoft.
i think it will be forgotten after Halo3 and Gears 2

Just like the last x box

U see
Every dev will start saying we can only do this with Blu ray and Cell soon and that will trigger exclusive AAA games for only Ps3.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

by 2010 Microsoft might already be hyping their next machine with Blu ray and half terabyte HD, so WTH

[codeazrael]

By then though, that will be five years into the 360's life cycle and by then I'm sure we will start to see leaked pics of an Xbox 720.

[kingboy]

to your advantage?gotta love Sony with their (futur proof)gaming systems.Games are only getting bigger not smaller,still don't believe?

[DaEnforcer]

...and by that time there will be an Xbox 720 equipped with a BD drive...and then the xbots will finally understand what Sony meant with "future proof" haha MS will also probably kill 360 as fast as they killed Xbox lol there you go xbots

[ReBurn]

I wish that people weren't so hung up on disc space used as an indicator of the quality of the game. It just seems rediculous to me that people even care. "This game is awesome because it used xx gigs of disc space" is something that only a moron fanboy would say. I don't care if it uses 25 mb. As long as it is fun I'll be happy.

[kingboy]

Nice point u made there

[Premonition]

You say as long as the game is fun you dont care right? well what if the game was fun but on a bigger disk, bigger disk= More playing time more things to do, you can go on and on.

[ReBurn]

Even still, more space used doesn't necessarily translate into more to do. In the 80's I used to play Missle Command for hours and hours on end and it was only a few kilobyes in size. Look at people that (still) play Pac Man for hours and hours and rack up a million points. That game runs on my cell phone now.

Any way you chop it up, disc space does not equal fun. Never will. It may mean prettier graphics and better sound, but a shallow game with great graphics and sound isn't worth as much to me as a decent looking game with addictive gameplay.

[Monkeynator]

A lot of the best classic games don't NEED huge disk space, don't NEED lots of ram, don't NEED kick ass graphics processing, or NEED 7.1 3D sound, but just because they don't need it doesn't mean they shouldn't have it. That would be like saying you don't need the game systems you are playing on now to live so you should get rid of them... while you are at it stop posting on the internet, I guarantee you don't need to do that to live (though some would have strong arguments against that).

If you would turn your nose up at a good missile command game that had an awesome soundtrack that reacted to the action, explosive graphics that made your eyes water, and networked multi-player to let your friends join in, well, then good for you.

[The Wood]

should believe more space equals more fun. Thats not the point here. The 360 format drawbacks for SOME games is being realised in year 2 from games being developed from year 1. Keep talking about pacman whilst forgetting games that developers MAY actually want to make. People talk as if they are developers and are fine with cramming, cropping, cutting the crap out off their visions. THE 360 WOULD HAVE MORE POTENTIAL IF IT HAD MORE SPACE. Its so simple. next gen means next gen and space is the understated, unsung hero (until now anyway).

Remember how the original Xbox made a modest jump from dvd to dvd9. QUESTION TO ALL. Why did they do it????? Why didn't MS want devs to use the super mega hyper compressions techniques coupled with ninja dart precision disk swapping that the fanboys now are swearing buy by sticking with normal dvd. Wasn't it one of the Xbox core advantages/attributes??

The closer devs are to their vision (within reason) the more fun games will be. Space should NOT be a deciding factor which it seems its going to be if it isn't already.

the Xbox might not have won the last title fight but it did win some rounds by having things like hdd as standard (quick feet), better graphics (harder punch), bigger media format (great uppercut). What ms has failed to do in the rematch is remember SOME the techniques that won it some of the rounds in the first fight and the larger media format (great uppercut) was not improved this fight.

[SofaKingReetodded]

meanwhile the Playstation went to a mountain retreat and communed with the ghost of Cus Da'Mato, then came down from the mountain top a the PS3, saying "im da best fighter in da werld, my style is impetous, my defense is impregnable, I want to eat the xbox's children...RAWRRRRR"

[mintrieri]

You make an excellent point ReBurn. "Size matters not!" =)

[otherZinc]

The PS3 won't be around in 2010 because they cant sell 100K systems in a month.

[Husso]

Ahh ignorance, got to love it.

[Daz]

so by 2009 they wont be able to fit in on dvd, so are lair, killzone, heavenly sword devs lying about the space they took up or are not lying? im confused.
I dont really care how much games use space as long as the games are good.

[Monkeynator]

My title says it all. You don't have to use the hardware if you don't want to, but it does enable more. Those who talk about procedural textures enabling ridiculously small memory footprints have a point, but their point belongs to a future that is not here yet. Procedural textures and fully synthesized audio are still too difficult to work with when you are creating something totally new, plus lets not ignore the processing power needed to generate new textures/audio on the fly. In order to use near total synthesis you have to give something up, processing power and ram would be that something.

Now I'm not saying we should not use smarter systems in favor of a brute force solution. I think that the extra space, extra cpu power, extra gpu power, and extra apu power can be used to add something extra to the games. If we figure out how to put that something extra in the game without using up the extra hardware, then how about we figure out how to make that something extra even better? Hmmm?

[mintrieri]

Well, did the original Xbox have better games than the PS2? It had more potential, right? It could do things like cache to the HDD and full screen anti-aliasing. It had Ninja Gaiden and Halo which were certainly the best of their genres on console at the time. Your argument seems to support this idea that the PS2 games were 'lesser than' because the hardware wasn't the best at the time.

Here's my point...the PS3 and 360 are beasts and can do amazing things and each has their strengths and weaknesses. Blu-Ray's capacity is certainly a positive for PS3...BUT...how many 25-50 Gig games do you suppose are going to come out by 2010? (ZERO, I predict not including filler garbage like region specific 1080p movies.) What is in it for the developer to make a game that big when it's still going to sell for $60? It's just not economically feasible yet.

Now, will there be games that exceed the capacity of a single DVD9 in the next 3 years? A few, I would guess but not so many that we're seeing 4-5 DVDs needed in a box.

Playstation fans need a thread like this to justify their purchase which is fine, but don't forget that PS2 had the lions share of quality titles in the end with the least impressive specs. Cheers (and sorry for the rant).

[Numark]

is it just me, or do people consistently talk about how the ps3 will be better in 2-3 years. I will be gaming only for about the next year, so anything beyond that is pointless to me. For everyone else, the ps3 may be the better choice, but I am content with my 360, xbox live ,and the 2007 game lineup.

But i do hope the ps3 puts out some amazing games, and they will.

[Infernus]

...start this year with HS imo. Best in-game cut scenes I've ever seen if I'm perfectly honest. HS just looks simply amazing. The Lip-sync is perfect, the cut-scene animations are amazing and it's very well acted too in terms of the character movement and facial expressions. It's the first of the PS3 breed and I'll be getting it for sure.

Dunno what this 'wait 2-3 years' thing is all about. The action starts this year. You're right about the PS3 being the best in the long term, but the games arrive long before that 2-3 year estimate as the first great exclusives are released this year. Then there's next year when MGS4, KZ2 and GT5 are released. Sony may be in this for the long term but that doesn't mean we'll have to wait for great games any longer than a few more months from now...

[Infernus]

The Blu-Ray format is a HD format and all true next gen consoles should support HD. HDTV's are coming down in price on the road to the Christmas season and the PS3 is the HD console that'll get the most out of those 1080p sets. That's the reason I chose it over the 360 and Wii. I'm getting a HDTV, I want a Blu-Ray player to go with the HDTV, I want to play my games in HD (if possible), I want wire-free networking to prevent clutter in my front room. The PS3 is the only choice if you want these things.

What I'm saying is in a years time will I wish I'd bought a 360 instead? No, because next year the 360 can't offer me anything the PS3 can't do.

If I'd bought a 360 would I have regretted it? Yes, based on what I specifically want for my money.

Blu-Ray is as much about gaming as it is about movies. For those that said the article meant we'll be seeing games filling up BD, it said nothing of the sort, it said next year the games won't be able to fit on the DVD9 format. That's already true now when you look at Lair or Heavenly Sword. Also, when you hear about Killzone 2 needing approx 2GB for just one level you can see my point.

To those that say they don't have a problem with multi-disc games; that's like saying you'd prefer to have your movies in VHS format than on DVD's, lol you're going backwards guys.

On an important note, forgetting all this texturing and level sizes and all that the Blu-Ray format allows something you guys haven't even touched upon. That's the ability to add in more languages for a game, and I don't just mean putting subtitles at the bottom of an English version. Take Heavenly Sword for example, because of the Blu-Ray format they could include more languages than just English, French, German and Spanish. It may not sound that important to some people, but in terms of reaching out to the European market Blu-Ray helps by allowing developers to include the many other languages usually missed out of games. You can't compress a true next-gen game in 7+ languages onto a DVD9 disc btw (Unless they're subtitles lol).

I don't think MS will make another Xbox until they make at least some money, if they're stubborn that could be a while. I don't want MS dragging us console gamers into the PC-style 'upgrade every year' scenario, a console design is made to remain the same for more than 3 years guys lol. MS shouldn't be in the console business if they're just gonna rip off consumers with a new console every 3 or 4 years, that's just ridiculous.

The reason Sony have been successful in the console market is because they look ahead at what's gonna be the next big thing when they make a console (PS1-CD; PS2-DVD; PS3-BD). Whereas MS are just trying to out-pace Sony by releasing consoles quickly with cheap contents to lower the retail price of the console and it's worked because so many people have been suckered into buying one. Not only that but they buy one knowing they'll have to buy a seperate HD-DVD player in order to watch HD movies. Lol, not only that but they buy a HD-DVD player knowing that MS doesn't truly believe in the format anyway.

Blu-ray movies and blu-ray games are the future. The PS3 has them both...

[Adamalicious]

Shouldn't it be "By 2006..." Disagree? I'd like to see you fit Resistance on a DVD then :)

[Salvadore]

Of course PS3 titles by next year will be too massive to fit games on a DVD... It doesn't take a genius to know the answer. More developers, with exclusive titles, will join the PS3 wagon because the 360 will be limiting their ideas. MS will probably see problems in the future and I think Sony took the right decision to look ahead.

[DirtyRat]

Massive games take a massive amount of time to make, and don't neccessarily offer a better gameplay experience. Bigger textures may look very pretty, but they also have to put a lot of work into making the gameplay more immersive otherwise its just a waste of space.

[Kirderf]

I have a feeling if they work alot on the ps3 it will might be even sooner.

[SuperSaiyan4]

They need to stop giving people the TALK and they keep bigging themselves up.

Well whilst Sony are too busy talking and insulting the competition the competition is bringing out wave after wave of online content and games.

Looking at this years line up for the Xbox 360 I would say it just doesnt matter what Sony say, let them prove it by developers actually coming forward.

Although I still dont see developers backing off from making games for the 360 since the 360 is the biggest userbase right now and is clearly in the lead.

And lastly I dont care about multiple discs Blue Dragon is on 3 discs because of loads of CGI do I care? No.

More space means more developement time and longer waiting for the game to come out and unless Sony seriously get the PS3 to load the games quicker its gonna be a huge wait to sit around loading a 50gb disc.

[Torch]

"Sony needs to look at NOW"

My God, I think you're onto something there, bud.

Especially considering the fact that many of their juicy games ooze too much goodness for them to fit on a DVD "NOW"...forget about 2010.

Man, what the Hell's wrong with Sony these days?...you'd figure that these morons at Sony would have enough sense to realize the need for a storage medium with capabilities well beyond those of DVD's...a medium from a product generation ago.

Man, if I worked at Sony, heads would be...

...oh wait...Oh, right, yeah:

BLU-RAY.

Forgot about that.

Uh, Nevermind. Carry on.

[Funky Town_TX]

All over again. So in 2010 I will get a PS3 for $199. So I will continue to wait. BR will only be justified by then?

[TheMART]

By 2010 or 2011 I want a new console, because this gen will loose to much ground compared to fast PC's!

Like PS2, still got some nice games, but since 1 to 2 years its getting pwned so heavy by PC's you don't want to play it anymore. Maybe some games like God of War II but that's about it.

Thus, if its needed around 2010 its early enough to include a format, or we might... have a very large HDD and download all of our games, no scratching discs needed!

[felidae]

you always have an excuse. that´s funny man.

[ASSASSYN 36o]

This will be known as the Great Wait.

[SuperSaiyan4]

If you want to see what the PS3 can really do then wait until 2010, by then I am sure the next Xbox might even come out with such advanced hardware it will make PS3 games look totally obsolete with 100gb HD-DVD discs and each game will take 3yrs to make only to last 10hrs and loading times will be 5mins....

Sarcasm over I think its all about having fun now.

The 360 and Wii are at the top they are what gamers want from gaming, PS3 is all hardware but no games and when I say games I mean it, they seriously dont have anything that special, not now anyways.

And instead of looking at now they are telling everyone it will be in a couple of years or so when blu-ray is really justified.

If games like Too Human, Mass Effect, PGR4 (yes it does fit), HALO 3, Lost Odessy all fit on a DVD9 I dont see the problem and they are big games.

There is no game like Mass Effect on the PS3 or PGR even.