Microsoft Fined For Abusing Power to Harass Pirates

The Delhi High Court has fined Microsoft for harassing alleged software pirates by taking them to court in the national capitol, instead of the cities where the crimes had supposedly occurred. According to the ruling, using money as a power tool is not condoned without repercussions.

[lord_of_balrogs]

A commentor posted this:

"If the law dictates you must make your case in a location convenient for the defendant, that is one thing. And the court saying “No, the court will not hear this case here; you must present it in a location convenient to the defendant” is also acceptable, especially if it is also convenient to the plaintiff. But even when it’s Microsoft, to -fine- the plaintiff for something that is not against the law, rather than merely ordering them to do it differently…is not really just. You can argue Microsoft intentionally filed the cases in the capital to try and win them by default, but that’s not provable, and if it’s not also against the law, punishment for it is unfounded."

I have to agree, MS did nothing against the law in these circumstances that justified them being fined. Declaring that the case should be held closer to the defendant's home would be a more reasonable approach.

[kneon]

But this is the Indian judicial system at "work", no surprise here. I've heard enough of these kinds of stories from my many Indian friends. If this were an Indian owned company headquartered in Delhi then no such fine would have been imposed. It's only because it's a large, rich American company that this was done.

[Kevin ButIer]

No comments

[3XP]

It sounds to me that the court is the one that is abusing it's power.

@dchalfont - below. Get off your high horse.

[sunil]

"But this is the Indian judicial system at "work", no surprise here. I've heard enough of these kinds of stories from my many Indian friends. If this were an Indian owned company headquartered in Delhi then no such fine would have been imposed. It's only because it's a large, rich American company that this was done."

What do you know about the Indian judicial system? Do you know / can you site examples of you accusations?

Accusations with some facts would be nice... wouldnt it

Every country have their laws. Learn to respect it. Choosing not too only proves that "you" are an a__.

PS: I am neither supporting the pirates nor MS. I am simply pointing out your ignorance / arrogance.

[Cletus]

I ave an HP an I cant understan wat dos peple ar sayin! Kinda reminds me of dat fella who owns da convenience stora down da rowd frum wheres I liv.

[pixelsword]

I don't know enough about India to comment.

I do know that they have a bunch of jobs there that used to be in America, so I can't say that they're poor per se if those jobs gave them a lifestyle increase; even if it's at a lower wage.

I also can't call the thieves poor if they have the tech to distribute software or are stealing the software to resell it themselves; then that's just a bunch of thieves undercutting Microsoft. I would go as far to say if it was a person that is taking it for themselves and not selling it, but giving it to people in need and had no other way of affording it, I could turn a blind eye to that.

Again, Software isn't a "needed" thing for most people in that area or people in general: Food, clean water, clothes, and a comfortable place to sleep are essentials. Yet, I would go this far: if it was for essential communications or something that tech was essential for survival, then yes, I would call that a needed thing. Stealing software to not have any plans of buying it legit later or to play games is not a good reason.

Stealing something that you don't need because you can't get it is just like saying that an ugly person has the right to rape supermodels because they can't woo or attract them.

But Microsoft isn't thinking right themselves.

MS ought to release a free version with modules you can buy for cheap that's simplified versions of their software, that would put a huge dent in illegal sales.

I have a moral dilemma with this subject, but I always try to favor the poor if I can.

[kneon]

I do respect the laws (thus my exaggeration about how to punish pirates) The problem here is that the court is making up laws. Apparently Microsoft violated no law in filing their cases in Delhi yet they were fined for doing so. I have no issue with forcing Microsoft to file the cases where the alleged pirates are based, it's fining them for attempting to file the cases in Delhi that's the problem, even though that is where they are based.

Here is case involving some western drug companies that shows further bias

http://www.american.com/arc...

Now I have no love for the drug companies as they typically spend more on advertising than they do on R&D and then claim the high drug costs are due to R&D expenses, but they are getting screwed around here.

I was involved in a deal about 20 years ago in which we would have been required to invest several billion dollars in India but the government contract stated that at any time we could forced to sell out to an Indian company or the government at any time at whatever price the government thought was fair. Is that not biased?

I've been approached several times over the years to invest in various Indian based ventures but the risk of bureaucratic interference has always been too high to justify the investment.

And no I'm not biased against India, I think every government in the world is screwed up, they are just each screwed up in their own unique ways :)

[MNicholas]

In America, whether you win or lose is based almost entirely on how much money you have. If I screwed you (fraud or otherwise) yet I can afford a better lawyer than you, you're just gonna get screwed again in court.

Of course, the same is generally true in India as well but because since they see an opportunity to make a rhetorical point they are, for once, correctly applying the law.

[iANONYMOUS]

Microsoft may seem to be a badass in your point of view, but it is still not right to pirate their product just because you hate them.

Money
-Just because you cant afford a certain software, you simply pirate it?
Does that even make sense? Other people bought it using real money earn from their hardwork, yet you all just Surf and click."We cant get everything we want in this world".
-Producing a software cost a lot money and hard work.

Microsoft doing this and that, slapping your face with bad service and all, who cares. You hate it, dont buy it Arsehole.

[MNicholas]

the punishment has to be proportional to the crime, otherwise people will be getting the death penalty for petty theft. It's also important that legal process is correctly followed and that any punishment or fines come out of the legal process only after a trial and the if the defendant(s) is found guilty.

Microsoft was fined because even before there was a court trial to determine guilt and even if, indeed, a crime was committed, Microsoft was already, in effect, subjecting a punishment outside of what the laws allow.

Similarly, if you stole from me, that doesn't give me the right to break your window or puncture your car tires. That's pretty much what Microsoft was doing.

Microsoft was preempting the trial and taking justice into it's own hands in a way that they get away with in the US. It is illegal for an individual or company to take the law into their own hands in that manner and anyone who tries ought to be severely punished.

[Gandalf]

You come to this country, take advantage of the system and think because we are tolerant that we are weak and helpless. Your arrogance offends me.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Yes, and the software pirates are just saints and big bad MS not letting people steal it's software is soo evil! What they did was not against the law in that country.

If you want to talk about taking advantage look no further than India for case after case of people taking advantage of a piece of software just because they can.

And spare me the economics lecture about India (lots of people love to use it) because if you can't afford it that doesn't give you right to steal it.

[Gandalf]

Maybe Micro$oft shouldn't overprice their crap.

[cyguration]

Well, what if you work and still can't afford to buy it? Doesn't give you a right to steal it but people are put in a bind when they work for crap they still can't buy.

India has a funked up economy, though, so it's not an easy situation to resolve.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

I sympathize with the economic situation over there but that still doesn't make it right. I work but I can't afford a Porsche that isn't justification to steal it.

MS has offered steep discounts to India and some of the third world countries in order to be more in line with their economy, but I know it's not enough..

It sounds to me like the these pirates MS are going after are actually profiting off of counterfeit copies.. even worse.

[Greywulf]

I love the 996 gt2 :\

[Nihilism]

your argument is very black and white, let's relate the limited install/limited lifespan that MS imposes on their OS's:

If that same porsche would 'expire' after driving it 3 times, would you still pay for it?, or get one at a garage sale...for a minimal fee
(just the bandwidth).

With pc gaming and pc software, some EULAs are so restrictive it's unbelievable, but once you open it, it's bought and sold, you cannot return opened pc disks, we can't 'vote with our wallets' because there are no other OS's that play games etc the way windows does. I payed $290 for vista OEM version, and when I upgrade my hardware I have to ring up MS and lie and say that my mobo died, then I will be at their mercy as to whether they let me install again or they make my buy another OS for $290-400(retail version), you think that's not stealing money?, when a company can decide whether or not to allow a product you paid for to work as intended?

MS are the thieves, they deserve every fine they get, keep em coming

@kneon

same deal with you, black and white, why use a ferrari as an example, an OS is necessary in the modern world everyone needs one, why not say that an average everyday car expires after driving it 3 times, would you still buy it? of course you wouldn't, there are a lot of reasons people pirate, how the F can you compare an overpriced OS to a luxury car, if OS's were non essential programs like games then there is no excuse, but OS's are mandatory, that's not saying pirates of OS's should be excused, but you're being 1 sided

I bought a few cd's with that copy protection crap on them, like APC- thirteenth step and Placebo- Sleeping with Ghosts, they don't work on half my cd players or dvd players ( or car stereo), do you think i'll be buying any copy protected cd's again???, F the companies that F us.

[kneon]

Nothing that Microsoft (or any other software company) produces is vital to anyone's survival. If you can't afford it then don't buy it. Very simple. I have no respect for pirates, I'd have their heads on a pole in the town square just like in the good old days :)

Ferrari's are too overpriced, I guess it's ok for me to steal one since I want one and don't want to spend that much on a car.

[RockmanII7]

So it's ok to steal. If you ever have a kid or already have one, I want you too let him know that it is ok to steal if everyone else is doing it. If everyone else is doing acid and defacing public property, is it ok for him to join in. By your logic yes.

[beardpapa]

hmm dchalfont's pretty reasonable with his analogies. bubs+

[chewmandinga]

What is that quote from? I can't place it anywhere.

Not Lord of the Rings is it? lol

[ReBurn]

It's from Taken.

[sikbeta]

I don't want to make a GOD DAMN HUGE Comment about this when I see that dchalfont already did it for me, now READ CAREFULLY and maybe you'll understand what's the whole point

@dchalfont

Bubbles +1

[AssassinHD]

GiantEnemyCrab is right. Piracy has no justification. Period. If you cannot afford a luxury, then you are simply not entitled to it. Oh and to Dchalfont: Companies would not have had to invent anti-piracy measures if it were not for....wait for it.....pirates. I say screw the people who screwed the companies, thereby forcing the companies to screw us.

[Seferoth75]

Would people buy a car that they can only drive 3 times is a bit extreme. One point I would like to make though is that people lease cars all the time. When the lease is up they own nothing..So they do indeed pay for something with limited use..

Not that I agree with MS in any way, your analogy was just flawed.

[TrevorPhillips]

microthiefs

[Nihilism]

Pirates should be punished, but so should companies who put install restrictions on their OS's, I would call that theft also, I don't sympathise with the pirates, but I do find it hilarious that microsoft was fined for trying to screw over the little people...people who were likely once customers until one too many bad OS's pissed them off

[Dirk Benedict]

I have a grin on my face, from ear-to-ear.

[Nihilism]

but is it enough?, maybe we should give ourselves a joker smile as only that can express my glee

[cyberwaffles]

what the hell?

[TrevorPhillips]

Pirates will continue to do there thing no matter what

[SSCOOLCHEA]

JUST DO IT . FK THEM .....iF you make a piece of shlt console and they can steal from it ...Just do it...Only reason why other countrys buying the fkn xbot . I buy the system and don't have to buy the game . If i was in india I would do it to .

[Death]

Microsoft isn't going after these 4 people because they need the money. They are trying to make it less convenient for people to steal their intellectual property. If the legal system isn't actively protecting the company, an example needs to be made to try and get people to think twice before pirating. The exposure this case is getting alone is worth much more than any monetary judgement would come close to.

-Death

[Seferoth75]

Look at it this way. Think of it like Freeway traffic. The pirates are the ones who are speeding. Cops will sit and pull random people out of the pack but the good portion of drivers continue to speed every single day.

[Pirateogta]

The Delhi High Court...

LMFAO

[Nihilism]

more like the deli food court, amirite rofl rofl rofl

[TheOkinawaBadass]

IRRRRRROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNEEEEE YYYYYYYYY!

[devilhunterx]

Welcome To India. Best beef burgers in the world!

[Cletus]

Haw, I bet dey were fined $2 'n deir blue ribbin cow!

[DiffusionE]

It's not America anymore where you can throw your weight around, it's INDIA. And things work a little differently.

[ReBurn]

Right. Government officials are getting kickbacks from the rampant piracy in Asia, so they don't want anything messing with their stream of cash.

[madjedi]

So if you people were accused of piracy and had to travel half way around the across the country and spend half of your yearly wages on travel and lodgings, this even before you pay for a lawyer, that would be perfectly fine by you or your families. There are courts in each of the cities, ms could have used those instead of dragging the people to the capital, i am glad ms got a fine for being arrogent.

To the people still not seeing the other side, say you park illegally and the business/city has your car towed, but instead of taking it to the nearest impound yard they tow it to one 2 states. And your stuck with a 2 or 3k impound fee, so is the picture clear enough for you people yet, or is excessive measures still acceptable.

[ReBurn]

Why did you park illegally? Or does that even matter?

[madjedi]

@12.1 it doesn't matter

It is an example because some people here are unable or unwilling to look at something from someone elses point of view, so i tried to point that out in a understandable scenario, what ms did excessively draining financially to the alledged pirates.

I would really like the reasons for the 2 disagrees, or is this more candyass anon disagrees.

[Nihilism]

@madjedi

we've either got MS spies thumbing us down, or some die hard MS fanboys

[AssassinHD]

I would say that you should simply not park illegally. Don't get me wrong, as I think Microsoft should be pursuing the defendants in local courts, but the only people who should be complaining are those who are wrongfully accused. Guilty parties have no room to complain about being inconvenienced in such a manner.

[Sagetech]

Oh come on Microsoft why sue the Xbox 360 pirates? Look at Sony's PS3 they don't have to sue...wait a sec,their console is not based off of last gen hardware so hackers haven't hacked it yet. Reap what you sow that's what you get for leaping 1 year ahead and overcharging people for standard hard drives in fancy Xbox 360 cases.

[artsaber]

I am sure the pirates have the right to a fair trial. It appears that Microsoft has attempted to alter the outcome of the trial proceedings before they commenced. Which GENIUS at Microsoft thought it was a GREAT idea to petition for trial @ the CAPITOL against native citizens from a US based corporation?!? Instead of sending the "message" the morons undid themselves.

By filing out of the city/district the crimes happened, you have already placed the defendant at a disadvantage. Perhaps Microsoft assumed that the defendants could not make the trip, therefore Microsoft would win by default. The court ackowledges this misdeed, also takes into consideration the "grandstandedness" of it all, the court is offended, Microsoft is held in contempt, and thus recieves the fine.

I say to Microsoft, "PAY UP". Who are your legal advisors? Fire them all, this was another morinc decision, any legal team worth their salt would've held the hearings where the crimes were commited. But this wasn't about justice, it was about two things:

1) Microsoft winning by default in hopes that defendants couldn't make the appearance

2)Grandstanding by having the trial in Delhi instead of the cities where they should've been... therefore recieving more press than necessary and attempting to USE the High Court to make a statement.

Achievement Unlocked: Fined for Stupidity

[Rowsdower]

life is unfair

someone very wise once told me if your knowingly going to break a rule be prepared for those whose who would enforce that rule to play by no rules when it comes to their attempts to punish you.

one should weigh the consequences of their actions prior to that action, what are the positives and negatives of those actions. This is less about big corporations treating the international community unfairly, as it is individuals being surprised that they were caught and now are scrambling for anyway to distract from the fact their actions caused the mess they are in.

Here we have a situation in which MS is being fined for breaking no law in India. Why? Because they are unpopular and the judge who made this ruling saw an opportunity to endear himself to his constituents by ignoring the law and finding a way to protect those who broke the law through this distraction.

Then here on the forums folks can take the opportunity to justify their MS bashing, when they could really give a sh*t about India or her people.

Nothing is learned and all sides feel wronged. Pointless.

"However, instead of taking on the case directly, the court chose to fine Microsoft $4,000 for each of the four defendants instead. If it turns out that the software piracy claims are unfounded, this money will go directly to the accused. In addition, Microsoft was ordered to pay a local commissioner who will investigate the piracy claims.

Although it was not illegal for Microsoft to file the four cases in the national capital where the company is headquartered, the Court found that something had to be done to prevent shear abuse of power by the software giant." (from the article)

So before they investigated the claims of piracy, they have set up means for compensation to the accused if those claims turn out to be untrue. So MS has been fined for breaking no law and that money will be turned over to accussed if they are innocent, but what if they are guilty, does the state keep the money? Something is off here, but hey who cares right? Cause MS sucks.

In fact a poll done in 2005 showed that 77% of people in India felt their court system was corrupt.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp...

so lets stop bing naive here.

[Rowsdower]

http://www.transparency.org...

[Rowsdower]

nothing else to say

[artsaber]

Even here in the US, there is a panel of people appointed by the government to review Judges' court case and follow up on complaints, etc. Their job is to review for inconsistencies and the validity of the complaints. There are hearings for the judges, they do not go unchecked. No justice system is perfect, and if there was a lack of consequence here in the states, you best believe the US court system would be par on that level of corruption.

This trial was never about fairness, it seemed to be about grandstanding, which in my opinion backfired a bit. The fact that they would attempt such lunacy in a court system as corrupt as you claim only bolsters their ignorance. I guess Microsoft shoulda dropped an anonymous bag of cash in a green bag with a Windows logo on it... they may have gotten the trial they wanted.

[Rowsdower]

its a silly situation all around

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

you think your d!ck is bigger than theirs, but in the end they show you up and make sure they get their money!

I personally know 4 people to date, that have been sued for illegaly downloading music... you steal, you'll pay... eventually!

[xg-ei8ht]

Seriously.

Please make me understand why you would want to buy Windows?

I've had so many crashes with win98,xp,vista, it's just not worth the money, and if there were another highly supported OS, people would smack eachother out of the way to get to it.

And as for piracy.

There are many reasons for it.

Cost being the worst colprit.

But one thing that amazes even me, is that you see software being sold legally, say clonecd, or something similar that can copy most games or software. and then cd/dvd burners turning up for cheaper and people wonder why it goes on.

And please don't come back at me with, if you go with original's you get support, my arse. Half the places you buy something from, have crap tech support and little knowhow, and follow a handbook for nubs.