Is Sony Late To The Live Service Party?

Is the live service model doomed or is Sony investing in something worthwhile for PlayStation?

[-Mika-]

Most definitely. It obvious that gamers have gotten live service fatigue and want more quality single player experiences. The 10+ live service games they have coming, I don't see most being successful except for the TLOU BR. They require too much manpower and that would take away from them making single player games.

[purple101]

They have said 50/50 split in future with multiplayer online vs single player. So plenty more of both incoming..

Regarding your point of taking too much manpower, while I kinda agree with you,. They have expanded lots of studios into multi team studios. And brought in many others to cope. So sure they will be fine!

[EvertonFC]

They have never said that

[Christopher]

All they've said is that they plan to build up GaaS content while not reducing SP games. They've never quantified any specifics otherwise.

[purple101]

@EvertonFc

they have said just that actually, here's a direct quote for starters

"In an investor presentation Thursday, Sony Interactive Entertainment CEO Jim Ryan outlined a near future for the company that focuses heavily on continually updated online games inspired by Destiny, Bungie’s long-running hit.

Sony expects to spend 49% of its PlayStation Studios development budget on live service games by the end of the year. By 2025, Sony plans to bump that to 55%, up from just 12% in 2019. By the end of 2025, Sony projects that it will have 12 different live service games of its own, up from just one now."

[Obscure_Observer]

"They have expanded lots of studios into multi team studios."

Which ones? As far as I know, only Firesprite and Insomniac are working a multiple projects.

[purple101]

@ obscure.

Quite a while back maybe you would sooner gurilla moved offices and expanded massively.

Obviously insomnia has expanded due to them pumping out games faster than anyone else we know if. They also did 1 PC oculus rift exclusive thing. Called 'stormland"

Naughty dog are also ever expanding and have 2 main teams and a r&d team. Which is a big step up as soon as they got the big brake making crash bandicoot on PS1. Which is kinda linear compared to the scale of what they do now.

[sparky77]

No one has got GaaS fatigue, Fortnite, Overwatch, Minecraft, COD etc are still making bank. If anything gamers have chosen their games and are not looking for anything new.

Single player games are great but they are extremely expensive to make and very difficult to become profitable. Sony made a desperate move with Bungie since they needed something but come a few years from now if their service games flop they are going to be in big trouble.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

What are you talking about? Sony's whole business model currently relies heavily on big budget single player games like God of War, The Last of Us, Spiderman, etc. If those games ever flop, only then will Sony ever be in big trouble because that is what they are heavily relying on. Sony is merely adding live service games into their portfolio, they aren't replacing single player games.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

The only point I agree with is that people have choosen their GaaS games, it'll be very difficult for Sony to break into this genre, alot of battle royale games have tried and failed to take off in the past few years plus. It's very hard to get the GaaS model right, and we already have a variety of big players in that genre.

Personally, I'm just after mainly single player games, I have little interest in the GaaS model.

[kingnick]

Anecdotally I'll have to disagree. The only GaaS game I played frequently was OW/OW2 and I'm completely done with that series due to the combination of F2P and GaaS ruining the franchise.

I know a lot of people that play COD, Fortnite and Minecraft but those are exceptions to the rule. People do not have the free time or the desire to grind many GaaS simultaneously which are time intensive and have a low reward for effort and money invested by design.

Bungie need to completely overhaul their engine or create a new one altogether to make adding content easier. Hopefully the tech heads at various first party Sony developers can come together and make an engine better suited for GaaS.

[Aloymetal]

...Then you woke up.

[EvertonFC]

Breaking news: playstation smashing it just like any other gen.
Breaking news: Xbox still has no AAA about to become extinct, put all eggs in one GP basket.

[S2Killinit]

Lol right sony is in trouble s:

[DarXyde]

Not really.

You just need dedicated staff to work on those games. Most studios are big enough to split their tasks (and of course, outsourcing is common).

[OptimusDK]

@EvertonFC so did you just say that GP was one basket - LOL

It is a concept not targeted one or the other game concpet - as can be seen by the varying game types that are in the catalogue.

[Obscure_Observer]

"You just need dedicated staff to work on those games. Most studios are big enough to split their tasks (and of course, outsourcing is common)."

That´s what Sony should be doing. Naughty Dog had Uncharted 1, 2, 3 and TLOU all released for the PS3.

I think they´re getting slow and slower nowadays. We´re in the third year of the current generation and not even Factions has been revealed, nevermind a new IP/game.

It´s possible that PS5 owners might be getting just one game from Naughty Dog for the whole generation, and that´s not good at all.

[DarXyde]

Obscure_Observer,

We're definitely not saying the same things.

"That´s what Sony should be doing. Naughty Dog had Uncharted 1, 2, 3 and TLOU all released for the PS3."

This much is true. Partly. ND at the time had an A team and B team. As I recall, the U2 team worked on The Last of Us but not U3. They did split their teams to have that level of output. Generation was also longer than the one succeeding it.

"I think they´re getting slow and slower nowadays. We´re in the third year of the current generation and not even Factions has been revealed, nevermind a new IP/game."

Why do you think they're getting slower? Games are becoming more complex and naturally take longer to produce. They're also creating a live service title and clearly, they want to get it right and they are creating something outside of their wheelhouse. They are also perfectionists, perhaps to a fault, but it's not a matter of them getting slower at all. Evidence doesn't really bear that out. And for the record, they did fully remake The Last of Us already. It's not a "new" game, but it certainly goes beyond the touch up they did for The Last of Us Remastered.

"It´s possible that PS5 owners might be getting just one game from Naughty Dog for the whole generation, and that´s not good at all."

I wouldn't really mind that. I don't speak for everyone, but those games are special. We're a very patient tribe and know better than to rush them along. I remember when Uncharted 4 was close to release and it was delayed so they could make more physical copies. As I recall, everyone was pretty okay with that. Like, it was an "aw, really?" moment, but no one was really sweating it. I personally believe there will be 2-3 new ND games this generation (excluding The Last of Us Part I), but one is fine, honestly. Gran Turismo takes forever to launch; Sony Bend had a 7-year gap between releases (and even longer if you're focused on console release); Media Molecule released one new game on PS4.

My point is that it is not unusual. I should also add that anything involving The Last of Us, be it the main game or Factions, is a huge time sink for Naughty Dog. Uncharted really calls upon a different type of focus and creative direction and I have no doubt they could have produced one already with another well into production by now if that was their focus. I don't believe they could not have produced more and I do not believe they are slower. They are simply focused on time intensive projects.

[badz149]

Late? I hope they never arrive! let others do Live service or GAAS whatever, I would love for Sony to keep doing what they are doing best

[DarXyde]

I don't really disagree, but I also don't believe live service is bad in itself. It's like DLC: some terrible practices have come out of it, but I also believe it's been great. From Software does great work with DLC most of the time.

Live services that launch as a solid experience and are expanded upon in great, non-exploitative ways are fine by me. Developers just need to be principled and the publishers need to leave them alone.

[S2Killinit]

I wouldnt worry about them at all. Sony knows how to make amazing AAA single players an they will continue that becaise, well, look at how successful they are.

Now, they will also dabble into live service specially because that is what MS is doing with their service oriented business model. I see Sony’s talented first party excelling here too. They’ve acquired some major developers in this space and positioned themselves well in that arena.

[purple101]

Passive aggressive headlines always directed to what Sony is doing.

But fear not journalists. They have much more clever people than yourselves working on it.!

[ChasterMies]

Indeed, Halo Infinite multiplayer is already a live service failure for Microsoft. I expect Redfall to join the heap of failed multiplayer games.

[Sonic1881]

I agree with you on Redfall. I wasn't impressed after the last game play showed

[-Foxtrot]

Pretty much, people are fed up of them

Take a look at Suicide Squad, people were really hyped for it, a brand new game from Rocksteady after the fantastic Arkham games but after seeing the gameplay which revealed that the game was another live service game a lot of people lost interest, Twitter, Youtube comments and Reddit exploded with people saying the same thing.

Sony might make some decent ones, we don't know, it's all just speculation at this point on what might happen but when they are saying they've got 10 or so in development it just feels we are going to so fatigued by them and most of them will most likely die off. It's not like Sony is saying "Hey, we're putting our resources into making 2-3 live service games with each one feeling different than the last" but to have so many in development and knowing, because of all the typical live services stuff we've had over the years, what they'll most likely be like, it's hard to get excited.

At the end of the day with something like TLOU or Horizon they will generate and keep more interest because of the franchise name but new IPs? I don't see them doing aswell unless they do something completely different although look at games like Fall Guys or Multiversus, they did amazing at the start but now look at them...people got bored and moved on.

I just hope the first few fall flat on their face, players will get bored and will put their money to the next single player game they've got coming out instead. If Sony gets a taste of that money then slowly over the years execs will want a little more over and over again which could potentially eat away at the single player side of it. Any company can become corrupted overtime, Sony are not exempt from that rule and people need to realise that.

If anything, I'd rather see Sony take the Ghost of Tsushima approach, let the main team work on the game as it is and then bring out a online mode for it a few months later.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

They might be taking a shotgun approach and hoping one or two of those games stick while abandoning the remainder that don't take off. And to be fair, they only need one or two to take off to make bank, they just have to be smart enough, and lucky enough, unfortunately for them, the GaaS model has a high failure rate.

[EvertonFC]

Someone gets it 😉 playstation would be over the moon if they have 2 out of 10 games hit the billion dollar jackpot with there live service games.
Like you said they'd probably happy with 1 successful live service game.

[kneon]

it's the same approach that movie studios use, most movies barely break even, but then they get the blockbuster that makes up for all the flops

[EvertonFC]

Unfortunately it's gamers like us who come to gaming sites who have no interest in live service.
The casuals who don't come into gaming sites are still lapping it up in regards to live service.
We the gaming site gamer are 1% the rest of the gamers don't even give to shits and just play Fortnite, CoD and FIFA

[jznrpg]

Late doesn’t matter if they make something others want to play, but technically they are late. Personally the only type of Live service games I’m into are MMO’s but since I have little kids I don’t have time for them at the moment . I do hope they succeed in one or 2 just to get more money for the single player games.

[TheEnigma313]

No not at all. See MS isn't turning profit like they hoped.

[kingnick]

After the debacle that was the XO I think Microsoft are just about increasing console sales vs what the console sales they had with the XO. If Microsoft didn't differentiate with Game Pass I and many others would not have a current gen Xbox console.

[arkard]

Sony only needs 1 of these games to take off. Late or not, if they can get one with mass appeal whales throwing money at it they will be set for a long time.

[kingnick]

The danger is you burn a lot of goodwill if your GaaS game fails especially for players that have invested a lot of time and money into said game if it is monetised, if a game has a rocky launch and players don't have faith in a game it can result in a death spiral.

Just look at Babylon's Fall.

[Vengeance1138]

Not at all, if anything this greatly helps Sony with all the failures of recent live service games it's a perfect opportunity to analyze why they failed and learn from it.
It's clear that there will always be room for live service with Fortnite, Genshin Impact, Destiny 2 and others still being massive hits and showing no signs of slowing down.
Out of the 10 Sony will release, it's only takes 1 to be worth the effort.

[Crows90]

Depends.
Not all live service are created equal. Warframe and path of exile being top tier examples of how to do it right.

Destiny isn't all that bad. Wish it did storytelling much better of course. Love the gunplay in it as well.

Most other live service are crap

[Stanjara]

Live service game deaths was the best start of 2023.

[derek]

Nothing ventured Nothing gained

[Miraak82]

I just hope they make more games like they use to when they still owned Sony Online Entertainment . DCUO was one of my favorite games of the ps3/early ps4 era and was a subscriber for like 4+ years . Plus they made games like Planetside, SW galaxies and Everquest . If they can dedicate some of there top studios to makes games on a scale of what SOE did back in its time I'll be on board to see what they're cooking up with live service . If it's just more of the same as of what we're already seen in the past 5 years then I'll probably pass on most of them

[Redemption-64]

No

[Walalon]

To be honest the best move they can do it’s create games, just games… this “trending” of live service garbage was nonsense day 1 and now we are looking all the corpses because oh wow! Gamers don’t have more than 24 hours to invest playing.

Just keep making games like god of war Ragnarok and you will be fineeeee

[Anunnaki]

They can skip the party permanently for all I care.

[ChasterMies]

Live service really means a store for microtransactions, and players are still spending their hard earned money on digital crap. Genshin Impact has made over $3B. Fortnite has made many more billions of dollars. GTAV is still a top ten download on PSN. Sony can afford a lot of misses in exchange for even one hit.

[CrimsonWing69]

Ugh I hate GaaS games so much.

[Soulsborne]

Hopefully sony will parry that live servce party, shits trash

[AshleeEmerson]

I'm really big into games like Apex, I will say though that my biggest interest is single player games outside of Apex. The idea that the last of us is changing how that works means everything to me because what I'm looking for is a sort of single player game with a multiplayer experience.

The best thing about multiplayer as we all know, is being in the game with people, especially your friends, it can make the most mediocre game seem really fun so...

The last of us coming out to be this, story driven, multiplayer game, sounds amazing and I hope it's what we imagine it to be and not just another battle royale, Apex and Fortnite kind of has that locked down (not saying naughty dog couldn't making mark, if anyone could, they are the ones who could).

[sadraiden]

It's questions like these that make me question my own gaming habits. Am I in the minority? Do most people get suckered into these live service, complete the daily quests 500 days in the row or else you miss the legendary weapon, treadmill, grind heavy, AAA yet F2P quality experiences?

At one point the thought of playing Destiny (when the 1st game was still fairly fresh) crossed my mind. I picked up a copy for PS4. One of the first NPCs in the game was supposed to give me a quest, didn't have the quest, and therefore my account was soft locked. It was literally impossible for me to progress. Not to mention, the special item that boosts you to lvl 30 never appeared in my mailbox, so yeah, the game was kinda DOA for me. Never picked up a live service game ever again, and I've been thrilled to be working through my backlog of classic single player experiences.

Are the majority of gamers actually wooed by the yearly FIFAs? The unending Destiny 2 DLCs, or whatever life support expansion for WoW Blizz cooks up next? You know what's actually truly exciting in this day and age? Local co-op. Not every game needs to be this multi-year, season pass pushing, battle royale adjacent undertaking. But then again, I'm old and I don't know what's fun anymore.

[kayoss]

I mean they have Destiny 2....

[blacktiger]

Is Microsoft late to VR

[frostypants]

Late to a game that shouldn't have started anyway.

[giovonni]

Naw, it would have to be the industry norm and a company is stubborn to adapt in order for it to be too late.

[IRetrouk]

They did live service with gt sport and a couple other games and partnerships, not sure how they can be late doing something they already have been🤷‍♂️

[Bathyj]

Yeah. All this time they've been busy making GOOD games.

Anyway, being late only matters if live service is a fad and dying out. Here's hoping.

[Flakegriffin]

People who hate GaaS will wish, and believe, that it’s dying. Same goes for people who dislike PvP games, Battle Royale, and so on.

I am NOT a fan of live service gaming but I heavily doubt live service gaming is going anywhere. So it will never be “too late”.

[P_Bomb]

Definitely time to start talking about some of these. Can’t drop them all at once.