PS5 Refresh: Oberon Plus

In the last month, Sony has begun the rollout of their latest revision of the PlayStation 5, model CFI-1202. There has already been a teardown showing the model’s redesigned board and cooling that is smaller and lighter. Power consumption is also reduced while giving the similar performance. To accomplish this, AMD’s Semi-Custom design teams have ported the PS5 silicon to TSMC N6, codename Oberon Plus. Angstronomics reveals exclusive images of the new, smaller die, and we discuss the how and the why behind this update.

[Orchard]

“we estimate that each new PS5 going forward costs Sony around 12% less to make overall”

And costs us 10% more to acquire - so the combination of a die shrink and price increase netted them a gain of 22%, nice!

[Fishy Fingers]

Highly doubt they're actually saving anywhere close to 12% in reality, the article seems to be comparing like for like on a few components as if other raw materials, manufacturing costs (power etc), supply chain costs (packaging, shipping/fuel etc) are still at the price they were when they started the intital production. They're not.

Id imagine any savings made has already been eaten up by the rising cost of other supply factors, hence still requiring the price rise.

[Loktai]

Until it costs sony tons more to ship with the cost of fuel or the general cost of other materials rises everything else including even the cost of manufacture.... the bare PART may cost 12 percent less to make than the old part in this economy but if the cost of making the old part went up 15 percent, what then?

Also when you say "costs US" remember the price was raised in some regions and not others, part of the reason for this is also inflation, money is worth less than it was especially certain currencies. There is more to this than greed, It would be more worth while to sony to get more units into peoples hands, but they cant be taking a loss on the machines when everything else is going up.

[HardKnockKid24]

Before we bend over backwards to defend Sony on this, just remember that they are the MARKET LEADER here and neither Nintendo nor Xbox similarly raised their prices. Especially relevant on the Xbox side as the PS5 and S/X architectures are so similar…. So with all the defenses made for Sony, please also ask why they had to do it and no one else did.

[Nyxus]

@ HardKnockKid24: Nintendo already sells their hardware at a profit, unlike the other console manufacturers.

Also the Switch Pro was already more expensive than the first model.

[Bathyj]

Maybe we should also remember that Microsoft has limitless money as we keep getting reminded. They apparently don't care how much they spend just a stick around. How long do you think it's going to take them to recoup 70 billion dollars in profit? Basically never.

Most businesses if something doesn't make money you cut it out.

[HardKnockKid24]

@Nyxus, why does Nintendo already selling their console at a profit make it ok for Sony to raise prices when no one else is? Historically, consoles become cheaper to manufacture and cheaper to buy because of the cost reductions noted in the article. If inflation and all the rest are harming us all, why did Sony decide to pass this cost along to their gamers, the same gamers they claim to care so much for when they want something - ie. to prevent the Xbox ABK deal? At some point there has to be a straw that breaks the camels back for you guys…..

@bathyj if you think for one second that Microsoft “doesn't care” about taking infinite losses, you ought to read up on windows phone and it’s death. This is an industry, not a prom, people aren’t just spending money to show up and look pretty. There are profits that must be made. And also…. We can’t keep making excuses for Sony’s anti-consumerism’s by pointing at Microsoft’s checkbook. Just tell them to be better, I promise we’ll win as gamers.

[Nyxus]

@ HardKnockKid24: my point is, even with the price raise of the PS5, the Switch is still more overpriced for the hardware you're getting. Having said that, I still own a Switch because I don't want to miss out on those games. I also have a PS5, and bought one before the price hike, so it doesn't really affect me in the end. Why would it be the straw that breaks the camel's back? I think the price hike isn't smart from a marketing perspective, but in the end it isn't that big a deal if you ask me.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I'm pretty sure Sony only had a thin profit margin on consoles anyway, they rely more on software sales and PS Plus to make up for that. I think Microsoft can afford to make a loss on hardware moreso than Sony, that and I think they rely more on their subscription services more than Sony does. As for Nintendo, they just make bank on everything, which annoys me when you rarely get a good sale on Nintendo games, especially their first party titles.

@Hardknockkid24,
I think you're not catching onto the point, Sony doesn't make alot of profit on their consoles like Nintendo does (thinner profit margin), I don't think Sony is willing to take a loss either on their hardware. The pandemic has basically messed up what you would normally expect to happen, Inflation and transport costs probably ate up whatever small manufacturing/production savings they made, plus you don't know what deal or agreements they have in place with TSMC (I'm sure they're not the only company chasing more Silicon).

[HardKnockKid24]

This will be my last on this topic but….

@Nyxus, I hear your point. From your perspective I can see how it might not affect you at this point. The point I am trying to make however is that Sony seems content with taking as much advantage as possible of their users. They cut costs for themselves and then increase costs for end users. Much of what they’ve done this generation so far has not been gamer friendly. They make amazing games, I practically get every Sony exclusive myself, but that shouldn’t be a pass to not take case of your base when they need it most.

@bathyj, no sir, I think you are not catching onto the point… I don’t have a stake in Sony’s bottom line. I do not care about their fiscal performance, most people do not. The point here is that Sony raised prices on their games and consoles when they could have chosen not to. PlayStation is quite profitable, it was a CHOICE to pass these cost onto the consumer. We know for a fact their consoles are cheaper to make now, why not hold on pricing? Anyhow….. that is all

[gold_drake]

us?
not you, ur from america.
not sure why u are including yourself.

[CaptainHenry916]

"And costs us 10% more to acquire - so the combination of a die shrink and price increase netted them a gain of 22%, nice!"

Jim Ryan at his best and don't care what the consumer and install base thinks. The PSVR2 will be up there in price as well

[Lifexline]

Don’t even waste your breathe people will actually defend them. Which is unbelievable.

[Silly gameAr]

If the product wasn't worth the money, no one would be defending them. That's what you people don't seem to get. Gaming is a hobby, but it can be an expensive one. It has never been a necessity. No one is forcing you or any of the others to buy anything.

But at the same time, why moan at one of the only companies that are actually giving us games for our GAMING consoles? We could be paying 500+ dollars and not have any games for years. How no one is mad about that, but constantly complaining about Sony is beyond me.

[Bathyj]

Amazing. It's like we only care about the games.

[Lifexline]

@silly what does the product being worth the money have anything to do with the company finding a way to cut costs and yet raise the price when no one else is doing it? That is such a dumb argument the fact that you don’t see the flaw in what Sony is doing cutting cost yet raising the prices.

Correct me if I’m wrong but all three consoles have games so that argument is flawed and based purely on one’s own opinion. All three have upcoming games being released for them. So it seems to me all three companies are giving games to their customers. We are talking about Sony right now why do people always bring other companies into arguments when they are not even mentioned just to prove a flawed point.

[ApocalypseShadow]

That armchair has become so comfy, it's become a couch.

Good on Sony for figuring out how to redesign the system but still offer the same bang. Hopefully, if economies become stable and a reduction in inflation, they can pass the savings onto the consumer. As this system seems built and ready for it.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

This is what I'm waiting for, I can't wait for some more normality in the supply chain, I've had enough of shortages, long wait times and inflation, it's so frustrating and it effects almost everything.

[Father__Merrin]

Then at least keep the normal price then?

[generic-user-name]

Imagine if Sony had a weaker, cheaper to create, version of the PS5 called the PS5 S. Now imagine the PS5 S was selling better than the PS5. Sure would be more affordable for Sony to meet their demand and help them recuperate costs so that they wouldn't need to up their console prices on to the consumer if that were the case. Oh, and also imagine they have infinite money in this scenario too!

Here's another fun scenario to imagine. Imagine if Sony released the PS5 a few years earlier, say 2017. Weaker hardware, cheaper to make but $299 and a sales success. Now imagine it's 2022, and the price of this PS5 is still $299, despite the cost of manufacturing them having decreased significantly. Oh and imagine their games stayed full price forever. I bet media and fans would go crazy about them pulling a stunt like that!

[1Victor]

@orchard
I can see how devastated you are with the news that Sony allegedly 12% cost reduction on the ps5 🤷🏿
It shouldn’t surprise anyone that Sony keeps improving their systems for cost efficiency to both them and the consumer unlike some other companies 🤦🏿

[darkrider]

You never stop. Always tryng to spin something cool to bad from sony. Aren't you tired of that?

It's also easy to spin for the other side. With more money we get more games without the need to buy publishers and take 3rd party games from other gamers.

We also keep getting new games without being more then a year without a single one... It's a win for Sony gamers. Nice!

[TheCaptainKuchiki]

AMD probably started selling their chips more because their own suppliers started increasing the price. Hence why Sony increased the price, sine they're at the end of the link.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I wouldn't not be surprised about this, who knows what the agreements are between them, not only that, but the competition for the limited amount of chips/silicon that is available or will be available. Let's also not forget there are new GPUs on the horizon, of which AMD will unveil in November.

[CrimsonWing69]

Cost less to make and they raise the price…

Makes sense to me,

Yes, I’m being sarcastic, folks

[OneLove]

😂 what a joke to be praising this. Sheep mind.

[1Victor]

One love
😂 what a joke to be praising this. Sheep mind

Yeah we know it’s insane and a joke to be praising the purchase of a legacy 3rd party publisher (since 1979) and take the games away from the competition sheep mind is too kind lemmings is more like it 🤦🏿

[andy85]

Changing my day one for this model when it's available in the UK. Shouldn't cost anything extra really and a fresh warranty is always nice

[andy85]

To add to the point, with the ridiculous rising electricity prices in the UK this model will save £25+ a year in electric as well. No-brainer really.

[darthv72]

Im interested in their new model that can be digital or disc with the addon usb drive. Will is be a slim or will it look like the existing ones? Good times are ahead.

[Phoenix76]

It's a terrible idea.
Just another step towards 'lack of ownership" of games.

[I_am_Batman]

They'll probably still do it. Normalising a PSN based system as a standard while "offering options" will lay the foundation for next gen consoles ditching physical media altogether. I can already see the justification being something like: 'We've offered an optional disc drive for the PS5 slim, but we've seen that it's a feature that was requested a lot, but not actually used much.'

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

Personally I wouldn't buy without the disc drive, so for me, it's more convenient to have it inside the PS5 chassis, having the extra box will be annoying, especially if I go over to a friend's house or want to move the console around. I don't like having too many boxes or extra cables if I can have it since I have too many as it is.

[darthv72]

The way it is described, it would be in the chassis. they describe it as wanting to maintain the current aesthetics. which means you still have a choice of buying the digital only or buying the combo with the disc drive. And for those who went digital would be able to buy the drive as an option. I assume they would make it so you can pop off the side panel, slot the drive into the chassis, connect up to USB on the back and then put on a new side panel that makes it all look like one unit.

It sounds very reminiscent of the 360 core/arcade and how you could pop off the side plate and attach the hdd. Or buy the pro/elite with the drive included.

[metabolicfrolic]

The day they stop supporting physical media is the day that I stop buying consoles entirely.

[Good-Smurf]

So it is true that they use smaller chip in the latest SKU model.
Now having lighter more power efficient PS5 with the same outside shell design sounds like the way to go for me kinda like the 50000 model PS2.
There's a new rumor about another new PS5 model having a detachable USB-C Blu-ray drive to save cost.
But I'll be waiting for 1200 model to hit shelves and take one wanna save few bucks on electricity.

[AmUnRa]

The first steatment is true, and as you mentioned the PS5 with a detachable USB Blu Ray is a rumor and i dont see what the purpose of that option. You can buy the discless PS5 and buy a usb Blue Ray discdrive and you are ready to go. It makes no sence to have 3 different PS5 version on the market, its only confusing for potential buyers.

[I_am_Batman]

My speculation:
The USB disc drive only makes sense if they're planning to go with a single disc-less standard SKU for the slim in my opinion. The Slim will at least require a 5nm node, which will probably bring the PS5 SoC down to ~210mm². This would still require a relatively large heatsink, because power density scaling isn't as favorable as it used to be on older node shrinks. Still it would allow them to save some volume/weight in addition to the savings they've already accomplished with the 2 existing refreshes. On top of that, a slightly smaller PSU and a missing internal disc drive (compared to the disc based SKU) would probably give them enough volume savings to shrink the console down a fair bit. I could see them ditching the slim label though, as I'd still expect it to be a seizable console.

[shadowT]

will help to increase supply. Demand is still strong.

[AmUnRa]

Foot note, MS has also steated to use the Oberon Plus chip in the XboxseriesX for the same reason Sony is using it. The XboxseriesX will be also run cooler and will use less power with the Oberon Plus chip setup.

[I_am_Batman]

Oberon is the codename of the PS5 SoC... They are probably gonna switch to TSMCs N6 node sooner or later, but they aren't going to use the PS5 chip in any Xbox.

[rulparra]

THE SHAREHOLDERS WITHOUT PAYMENT!

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

Okay, so it was a die shrink, I kinda suspected this would be the case, that explains the lighter weight and better power efficiency.