Mike Ybarra Responds to Jim Ryan's Statement About Backward Compatability

“Disagree. We want gamers to play the best games of the past, current, and future. It's what gamers have asked for.

[Palomeski]

Sony doesn't like free backwards. However Ps3 games in PS Now (44.99$ every 3 months) seems a really good idea. Nice.

[AspiringProGenji]

It is a good idea for TVs, PCs, and other devices that aren't gaming consoles. That is the point of it, not BC.

Besides Jim didn't say he didn't like BC. He just said that that feature is not used very much. And he is right. Beenike this since the PS3 last gen too. Nothing but am overhyped feature, but still cool

[Neonridr]

well only the launch PS3's offered BC. They removed that feature afterwards, so hard to say nobody was using it. Considering the bulk of their customers didn't have a launch PS3.

[uptownsoul]

Well the new study shows that 1.5% of all time spent on Xbox One content is 360/back compat games (source: https://cdn.arstechnica.net... ) ...So while I believe it is better to have back compat than not have it, it is a diminishing asset.

[darthv72]

And yet how does Ryan know it would not be used? I know I'd use it as I still use it on my bc ps3.

Truth is he has no idea and can only repeat the current narrative from the top. And that narrative is... no to bc.

[Kavorklestein]

@uptown soul
It may SEEM diminshing, but for the ones who buy or get some classics on 360 BC and enjoy em, or just like to have em in case they ever wanna replay it, or just like to collect games.. that is more than 1.5 percent. Surely their percentage is meant compared based on time played only. There's still a 1.5 bare minimum profit increase no matter what! So how is having BC, and having options not beneficial?
It's buulding and enhancing Xbox's widespread value over time! It's important to not set your sights short, and believe there only one way of perceiving all the factors that determine value and write things off so much... especially when there is profits, value and good basic worth to just about everything on the market today. Things are always evolving in the tech world, so I always wonder when people will realize that the drama and the overly negative points
or comments about gaming on a different box or device is un needed.. and it adds nothing of worth, and instead adds nothing but petty immaturity to an otherwise peaceful and simple world of fun, being twisted and used the wrong way, by crowds of jerks and pathetic haters.

Over time in my life I have realized preference is not meant to be a reason to bash really anything haha... or anyone LoL

[81BX]

@uptownsoul
You are looking at a portion... as in 930k users not all

[Saranya]

Jim said "that that feature is not used very much" but that's just options for who want to play old games.

[Liqu1d]

@darthv72 Ryan would have access to statistics showing how much BC is used.

[uptownsoul]

@Kavorklestein - "It may SEEM diminshing, but for the ones who buy or get some classics on 360 BC and enjoy em, or just like to have em in case they ever wanna replay it, or just like to collect games.." -- It doesn't SEEM diminishing, it IS diminishing. Back Compat is a diminishing asset because the need (and/or want) to play 7th gen games diminishes as more and more 8th gen games populate the gaming landscape. [That is unless you believe people bought 8th gen consoles to primarily play 7th gen games]

@81BX - "You are looking at a portion... as in 930k users not all" -- Its called a survey. A survey by definition uses a sample size. And 930k is a far larger sample size than all but a few surveys

[freshslicepizza]

@Liqu1d1h ago
"Ryan would have access to statistics showing how much BC is used."

Then why doesn't he provide his own statistics on how much it was used on the PS3 when they supported it?

[Aenea]

@darth

Of course it would be used, it just wouldn't be used so much that it would've been cost effective...
That's the thing, the Cell in the PS3 isn't that easy to emulate on PS4's hardware so it would take quite a bit of time and money to get it working. Or they could've chosen a hardware solution and either make the console more expensive from the start or eat some profits which would mean they would have had less to invest in other areas...

I would use it if it were added, well, I think I would like to use it, but since I've already way too many unplayed games as it is it would just add to the pile that is my backlog and not sure that I would actually use it... Still would love to have the ability to do so whenever it would strike my fancy....

[shiva1]

Dont care which device. When i own the game i should be able to play it and not pay again for it. Weather its 3 gens old or irrelevant game after 10yrs i own full license of a copy and i have the right to play it when i want and where i want. I dont want to be dictated again and again and hardware should never be a limitation. Be it 5 min or 50 hrs i paid full price for it.

You say TV, PC or other devices is good.... Whats wrong with consoles. Are consoles manufactured on mars or are they from other galaxy? Consoles are for gaming right?

[rainslacker]

@Moldy

Here ya go.

http://kotaku.com/5340337/s...

Why does Ryan need to provide it? Found it in less time it took to write this using Google.

Note the reason people aren't playing it as much. According to John Koller, SCEA's director of marketing for the time, there were so many PS3 games to play, that most people weren't buying it to play older games. So, if this is a valid reason, why are MS fans so into the feature? Do they not have enough games to play? Since I know this isn't the case, isn't it likely that MS fans also don't really care about or utilize this feature so much that it actually counters anything Ryan has said.

Or is this one of those things where statements of fact from history don't apply to Xbox users, because of whatever hyperbole one can come up with for making it into a console war thing?

MS said that 50% of their users TRIED BC. Tried. Not used it. Where are the statistics of ongoing use? Did that try just mean booting up a game for a few minutes to check it out? Their statistic was about as useful, and probably as wrapped in PR spin using loose metrics, as their quarterly engagement numbers. Why not demand that MS give these numbers more frequently if the topic at hand is actual usage numbers, as opposed to if it's a good feature or not....because most agree, it's a good feature to have, but most seem to also think it's mostly a superfluous feature that won't get used much or at all.

Anyhow, Note some of the comments in the article....citing that is the reason why Sony was in 3rd place for the gen.

Funny how that wasn't the reason they were in 3rd place(at the time of the article), and how this gen with their closest competitor having the feature, they have sold roughly half as many consoles as Sony.

Maybe it's time to just accept the fact that while BC is a coveted and often requested feature, it actually isn't that big of a deal to most, and has no real bearing on console sales. Maybe at the start of this gen, but it didn't help Sony or Nintendo at the start of last gen, nor did not having it hinder Sony, or MS really, at the start of this gen. It doesn't seem to be affecting Switch sales either.

My thoughts....BC is a nice feature to have that the vast majority don't actually use or care about.

@shiva

I think you don't know how software licensing works. You don't have the right to play it where you want. You have the right to play it on the hardware or OS that it was originally intended. You still have that right. If you want to play PS3 games, keep or buy a PS3. I'd imagine if you had the games, you had the system....so what happened to it? There was no doctrine that stipulates you are free to play your games indefinately anywhere you want. If that were the case, why can't you play your PS3 games on the X1? Why can't OGXbox games run on the Switch? Why can't Switch games run on the Vita?

On PC, you are allowed to use software on the OS, and it isn't hardware dependant beyond the dependencies of the OS. Consoles aren't the same. Having BC on PS2 and early PS3's, as well as some on Nintendo consoles was an appreciated feature, but not one you were entitled to.

Ten, twenty, thirty years from now, if you want to play your older games, you are free to. Just get hardware that is approved to play it.

[darthv72]

@liqu1d... Ryan doesnt know when im playing ps1 or ps2 games on my ps3. Honestly they can only guess as to its use because they pulled the plug on it after a short time on the market to save costs.

Dont think that demand for the 20, 60 and 80gb units did not go up after that. In fact, the hw bc models still hold their value.

[Bruh]

@uptownsoul

You realize the author himself on that study sited to take the data with a grain of salt right? Game usage relies on a constant internet connection, meaning if I'm offline or my game has no internet based functionality, it doesn't track the time. I think the massive boost in the sales of BC titles such as BOP2 and Red Dead, show thats its quite appreciated by the Xbox user base.

[Death]

@Aspiring,

Sony yanked PSNow from TV's and Bluray players (other devices) to play these PS3 games you need a PS4 or PC. PC was recently added, it's clear what the target platform is. If you want to play PS3 games on PS4, you have to pay.

@Rain,

According to you link, Sony polled people on the primary reason they were interested in a PS3. 80-90% said it was to play PS3 games, so they yanked b/c.

This has to be the biggest line of BS I have seen in quite some time. I'm astounded 100% didn't want a PS3 primarily for PS3 games. Why would they ever have anticipated anyone would PRIMARILY buy a PS3 for PS1 or PS2 games? How many wanted a PS3 primarily for PS3 games and also to play their existing PS2 and PS1 games?

The reason Sony yanked b/c was to reduce costs since they weren't selling consoles like they had hoped. The ship was sinking and they needed to reduce weight. Memory ports, USB ports and b/c were stripped so they could shave $100 off the MSRP and start selling more consoles.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Funny how xbox just NEEDS to defend themselves when Sony was referring to the usage they saw on PS3. Insecure.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Darth

Umm launch PS3 had BC. Surely this is how Ryan knows. Idk xbox nation is so upset?

[timotim]

Yeah...but PS Now is still comprised of 99.9% of previous generation games...the same games Sony is telling you no body wants to play right? So I guess it's OK for them to sell it to consumers but it's no OK for MS to provide it free of charge for those that already bought the titles???

[Bigpappy]

Yep. No one needs it, but they do think it is a good idea to sell it back to you in the form of remasters or laggy streaming. They know their userbase is that gullible .

[SpaceRanger]

Gullible?

But it's definitely not gullible to hold on to a 2 min trailer for a year on a console that isn't out yet and won't be out for another 5 months. /s

[Brave_Losers_Unite]

From Gullible BigFlappy

"But Kinect is still my number one purchase this year. There is so much you can do with that thing. "

"On Monday they made up for Sunday by showning the games and what they are able to offer with Kinect so far (including the starwars exclusive with Lucas.)

"Kinect is all about expanding the market. I think they have found the secret door to that hidden market."

[darthv72]

That's the best you got spaceranger???

[Bruneblomst]

Why you say stuff like this,when it so far from the truth? I have use bc maybe 3 times tried psnow for a week and it's not for me. If people like it their should support it, why is people gullible for supporting service they like?

[DashArrivals]

@ Brave_Losers_Unite, that is hilarious ahahaa

[Why o why]

Brave user. . . . . .win

Some people huh

Good find

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

So you'd rather play old games instead of an upgraded remaster? To each his own I guess. I prefer the upgraded remaster myself.

[rainslacker]

The PS4 user base isn't using PSNow in droves that I'm aware of. So who's gullible?

The remasters....I don't know if you should really use those as examples. All companies are doing it. MS, Nintendo, and Sony could all have the same argument lobbed at them. The year UC:TND collection came out, MS had Halo:MCC as well. Then they had the GeOW remaster. MS had two "remasters"(poorly done one's at that) release just the past couple months alone. I think there was one more, but can't remember off the top of my head.

GOW3 remaster was more a cross gen port than remaster. Same with TLOU. Nothing really wrong with cross gen ports, but sure, because they called it a remaster(or whatever) obviously that means the practice is bad. R&C I wouldn't call a remaster. Same with Crash, although it's more remaster than remake I think. What other remasters were there from Sony itself beyond the Gravity rush Vita port?

[Razzer]

Why did MS bother with MCC again?

[TKCMuzzer]

How are they selling it back to you? If you still own the game, physical or digital you can still play it on the console you bought it for, if you buy it again it's completely your own decision. You like many are twisting it to suit your argument.....if you still own the game you can still play it on the console you bought it for, you are NOT being forced to buy it again, it is YOUR choice and YOUR choice alone.
Gullible - ignoring the fact that a console you bought has no proper support from its manufacture, then kissing their butts when they allow you to play SOME of your old games on your current hardware, still not providing you with new software, then getting excited about a new console they are making, yet still NOT providing software for the current machine you own and accepting that as ok.

I agree, Sony may not offer BC and yes maybe it should have been in there from the start to appeal to all but the exception to the rule is, they counter act that by fully supporting the PS4 with software, after all, that is why we all buy current hardware, lets not lose sight of that glaring fact.

[Kribwalker]

It's funny. Everyone that thinks backwards compatibility is something no one uses should look at last months NPD where black ops made the top 10.....

[Majin-vegeta]

Well when your system is a barren wasteland with no.worthwhile games.And you throw in one of the best games from last gen of course people are gonna eat it up

[moegooner88]

Wow, facts aren't sitting well with you, are they ? How surprising. Not

[Kribwalker]

https://venturebeat.com/201...

There's facts moegooner. BO2 was top 10 in aprils NPD.

@Majin
It's not a barren wasteland. I've been able to buy any multiplat game available which makes up most of a consoles game base. Calling it a barren wasteland is nothing but trolling

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Let's put those backwards compatible games into context kribwalker. Of all the games announced for backwards compatibility how many have made the NPD rankings?
Also, don't you find it odd that an old Xbox 360 game from 2012, that wasn't enhanced or upgraded in any way, was the top selling Xbox One game in April 2017?

[Kribwalker]

@hugs
It wasn't the best selling game, other games sold more (ghost recon wildlands for one) but black ops 2 had more then 240,000 votes to go into backwards compatibility so there was a lot of people waiting for it. RDR was one that also shot up the amazon charts really far when it became backwards compatible.

[dilbig5]

That has nothing to do with BC as a whole. That just shows the power of Black Ops and the suckiness of Infinite Warfare. I guess people can't say BC is free anymore.

[-Foxtrot]

" It's what gamers have asked for"

I'm not defending Jim but is this guy serious?

They've hardly listened to gamers for years, especially their own fanbase. It's like people at Microsoft wait in the shadows for Sony to say or do something they think they can easily latch onto and play them down.

"TAKE THAT EVIL BANSHEE, YOUR WICKED DAYS WILL GO ON NO MORE"

[Kribwalker]

It was one of the most requested features when they were taking requests for OS additions

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

@Kribwalker

Out of the 30 million or so Xbox One owners, how many of them actually asked for backwards compatibility? Let begin the discussion there with facts instead of speculation and conjecture.

[rainslacker]

If Sony asked me, or I was so interested of offer unsolicited feature requests(which I did for PS4 at the start of the gen), it would be to have BC on the system.

The OS additions, or other feature requests hold no interest for me, or they are already available.

Given that the systems are about the games, and that Sony has a long lineage of great games to play on their system, it seems obvious that BC would be one of the most requested features, particularly since the groups that would make any requests are going to be gamers who are more invested in playing more games.

What else is there to request? user name changes? An app which is either already there or likely coming? Heck, I'd be more prone to asking Sony to support YouTube on the Vita again over BC on the console itself, because that's a feature I actually did like on the portable. But BC, while I wouldn't mind having it, is far from a critical feature that would deter me from buying a system, nor would it's inclusion make me run out and buy a system.

I'd be one that would use the feature more than most, yet I still don't even care that much. Maybe it's because I grew up through many generations where BC was never considered to be something we were entitled to, nor was it a common feature. People came to expect it because Sony offered it for 2 generations, then a bit in a third. While it was a great feature, and a positive for the systems, it really wasn't a selling point which moved consoles, and eventually, it became a feature that went underutilized.

But at this point, the topic seems to be if it's right that Sony has it or not, whereas the original comments made the topic the necessity of having it, and just how much the feature was used.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

E3 in several days and Sony and MS are already at it lol.

[Mr-Dude]

As much as I like Playstation... If the PS5 doesn't play PS4 games, I will go to PC and buy the PS5 used for exclusives only. There is no excuse Sony

[DashArrivals]

He said hardly anyone uses BC. AND HE'S RIGHT.
Enough said.
INVEST IN NEW GAMES AND STUDIOS... not in BC

[Quatron]

It's a shit idea. I tried it, can't even get off the start menu.

[Xx_Pistol_xX]

Yeah Sony would rather put that money into new games.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Moving forward both PlayStation and xbox will be backwards compatible due x86 architecture. It will be a moot point moving forward.

[Onig]

@uptownsoul
http://n4g.com/news/2066280...
???

[notyonka]

Indeed. He's right and Ryan's words about bc are pure nonsense

[murderlo]

The BC has been a great Microsoft move that will be better with Scorpio. It hurts Sony, of course.

[Nyxus]

How? They have a lead of over 30 million consoles sold.

[murderlo]

That advantage can be lost in a generation. And BC can help it.

[OsafuneKatana]

BC is not hurting Sony one bit. But lack of games are sure hurting xbox. Enjoy that third position.

[Thatguy-310]

6 teraflop beast to play old ass games LMAO..... Do you guys listen to yourselves?? You guys should be this dedicated in making MS invest on new gaming experiences. Don't worry about what Sony doesn't want to bring to the table. They're doing perfectly find releasing new experiences that the owners are loving. Ps4 is on top because of it and will continue to do so.

[DashArrivals]

BC does nothing LMAO. It's not changing anything

[King_Lothric]

How? Sony is dominating the market as if there is no competition. Explain how is this hurting them.

[2pacalypsenow]

Has it made any difference in the amount of people buying Ps4's over Xbox? If it was, MS would be all over that data.

[TKCMuzzer]

I'm sorry but come on, do you seriously believe what you are saying.Since BC was introduced the PS4 continues to outsell the Xbox One for one solid reason, current generation games, wake up. It will only hurt Sony is MS somehow manage to convince 30 million PS4 owners to join the Scorpio hype train.....that won't happen.
Scorpio is a premium product, the OG PS4 will still continue to outsell Xbox and PS4 Pro, without out the need for BC.

I read your second comment, you really do believe what you are saying............

[LackTrue4K]

@murderlo
What generation are you talking about???

This current one or the next one coming up?!

Cuz as the last hand full of gens, that Feature hasn't done much for Xbox one.

[DashArrivals]

I see your lips flapping, but total bullcrap is coming out.

[Liqu1d]

He said BC isn't used much and he's right. Show me some figures that state otherwise.

[shiva1]

Shut down PS NOW then.

[Liqu1d]

PS Now isn't BC, in fact it will be supporting PS4 games soon. But it's only a matter of time before it is shut down, it won't be missed.

[rainslacker]

Really? At the start of this gen, both Sony and MS fans said that the feature, while nice, was not something that most people used. Ryan said basically the same thing. Former quotes from Sony in the PS3 days said the same thing. MS had to spin some PR to make it seem like it was bigger than it likely was, and since, hasn't given one statistic on the feature. Nintendo didn't include it in the Switch despite having BC for several generations prior. Neither company seems to deem it necessary to start out this gen, when BC would be the most beneficial.

So, given all this, how are Ryan's words pure nonsense? Seems they are exactly what almost everyone believed until it became a console war talking point, and what supplemental data either expressly cited or extrapolated from the moves of console makers seem to imply to be the case.

[Imalwaysright]

it is pure nonsense from a gaming point of view. What kind of gamer says no to more games and sees this in the perspective of those company suits? Sony can say what they want but their actions speak the loudest. PS4 not having BC is benefitial for their coffers as they get to sell remasters. There IS demand for the ability to play games from previous generations on the PS4 otherwise Sony wouldn't waste resources into making PS2 and PS3 remasters. It would be like throwing money into the wind and anyone here believes that Sony is that incompetent?

[Why o why]

@imalwaysright

Sony not having it is definitely a cash grab in my eyes, I've stated this a number of times but shouldn't some of the commenters pointing the finger at sony use some of that energy questioning ms's lack of current gen output..those also fall into the more games category. Guess its down to personal preference and gamers shouldn't have to choose between current support vs bc in a perfect world. I would appreciate bc but I didn't use it much last gen on my fatty because I wanted new and improved. Im not even saying people dont use it either just that its not as revered as some act

[QUIMICOMORTAL]

Except he isn't! and they aren't!

https://arstechnica.com/gam...

[KingKionic]

Xbox backwards compatibility contributed to over 100 million hours of gameplay time.

http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-...

This was back in July 2016.

Mike Ybarra would definitely be combative considering many xbox users enjoy playing those games on the xbox live platform,taking pics and game clips as well.

[Goldby]

100 Million hours over 25 million players is just over 4 hours each.

Thats not even a full 360 campaign

[OsafuneKatana]

Lol

[Neonridr]

well.. Call of Duty Ghosts campaign was shorter.. :P

[Onig]

@Goldby
Lollll http://n4g.com/news/2066280...

[Goldby]

@Onig

Thats only 40 minutes a week since BC started. or roughly 32 hours of per player

[SpaceRanger]

100 million hours cumulatively at the time (July 2016) since launching BC?

Imagine if it were 400+ million hours a WEEK not tied to BC (granted my math is correct)...oh wait...

https://www.polygon.com/201...

[KingKionic]

Doesnt matter it was over 100 million could of been 150 million doesn't matter.

That was in JULY 2016 and there were only 62 titles in backwards compatibility with the majority being XBLA titles

http://www.express.co.uk/en...

Its a free feature and many people use it on the platform.

The list has grown to over 380 titles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

[SpaceRanger]

So hours played doesn't matter now? Why? Because the numbers don't cater to your agenda now?

Once again, people using Wikipedia as a source to make a point. How old are some of you all?

[KingKionic]

It was over 100 million was the point. It doesnt matter what metric it was. Its in the millions during the time it launched to July 2016. Its clearly pass that with over 380 titles.

Xbox One Backward Compatibility

https://majornelson.com/blo...

Here`s major nelson. How you feel about that?

[rainslacker]

Hours played doesn't matter to this topic, because it doesn't indicate how many people used the feature for a significant amount of time to deem it as a utilized feature....regardless of the metric of when it becomes a significant feature to said person.

As I pointed out above, the vague number can be extrapolated to mean many things, and when put into context, does not show an accurate picture on the demand or overall usage of BC in terms of the individual user. It only shows cumulative hours that the feature has been used, and with a years time between release and actual reporting, it's not that impressive of a number.

It shows that people will use the feature, and how much actual time has been spent playing past gen games, but not nothing else.

@Kionic

Of course the number of hours is going to grow. They can't actually go backwards. There are people who use the feature, but the topic at hand is about how many people would use it to make it a necessary feature. If MS released another statistic, even if it's just the number of hours, then at least we could see if the feature is growing at a pace which is in line with the ongoing inclusion of newer BC titles, and the estimated increase in user base.

[SpaceRanger]

"Its in the millions during the time it launched to July 2016. Its clearly pass that with over 380 titles."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're wrong again. It's not used that much in comparison to the grand scheme of things. Pretty sad if you ask me, especially since it's touted so much.

https://arstechnica.com/gam...

Whether it's 62 or 380 titles, it seems to not be that important to the majority of people. Only Xbox PR and the devote that are on this site.

[KingKionic]

If the numbers were over 100 million its probably double that and more by now in game playtime.

Mike ybarra already responded to that arstechnica article

""Scraping some data off servers gives an inaccurate view of what people do."

https://twitter.com/XboxQwi...

[SpaceRanger]

Inaccurate in comparison to what evidence?

Once again @Kionic, you're unfortunately blindly following talk rather than cold hard facts. Data doesn't lie.

Their data is far superior to the simple assumptions that PR will throw out in words. Even if we forget about the BC data for just one second, I'll tell you some more sad news:

That "Beam" streaming service is set to fail within the Xbox brand. Only .71% [not even 1%] use Twitch for streaming...

And even less...the people who bought the Xbox One S for the blu-ray player (another highly touted feature) don't even use it. A mere 1.43%.

This takes nothing away from how much fun you might have playing games on the Xbox One. What it does is silence the bull that has been spewed from the start by primarily fanboys. These features are just not that important to the fanbase.

New Games and Successful services like Netflix are what the Xbox fanbase wants.

[DashArrivals]

MAUs baby MAUS
You should go for a job in the Microsoft PR department. I hear it's a workforce of thousands of Morons. bahahahahahahahaaa

Just enjoy your BC. We don't give a shit

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Instead of talking about hours played how about talking about how many people actually use the feature each month or provide some quarterly or annual usage numbers because announcing something as vague as 100 million hours without mentioning a specific time frame is completely worthless.

[rainslacker]

At a time when it was believed MS moved 20-25 million consoles, that puts BC games at roughly 4-5 hours per user. That is hardly impressive. If the average of new games were roughly 5 hours per user, then the system would be dead.

Now, if we go by MS own report, they said about 50% of all users tried BC. That puts the average up to 8-10 hours per those who tried it. If a console had it's new games play time at 8-10 hours, the system would be dead.

Now, if we assume that say 50% of that 50% actually used the feature for any significant time beyond just trying it out for the wow factor(we've all done it on past consoles), then that puts the average play time to 16-20 hours per user who used it to say play a complete game, or large portion of it. If a console had only 16-20 hours per user play that much, the system would be dead.

Since we can pretty safely assume that not even half of that 50% of 50% didn't play a full game using the feature(so <25% if you're keeping up), that puts the average at 32-40 hours of play time. That is pretty respectable overall, but that equates to roughly 4-5 million users who actually used the feature for any significant time in the interim between when the feature was launched(June 2015), and when the report actually came out(July 2016). A full year later, with no actually usage statistics coming since then to indicate if the feature is growing in usage, or if it's hardly used at all.

Jim Ryan never implied that no one would use the feature, but I don't see Mike Ybarra offering up statistics which actually counter Ryan's claim, whereas Sony has gone on record to report PS3 BC numbers, and other console makers have never seem to be that affected by the inclusion or exclusion of the feature itself.

[GiantGriFFin]

"Disagree. We want gamers to play the best games of the past, current, and future. It's what gamers have asked for."

Pretty sure gamers ain't playing the best games of past, current and future on xbox.

[rainslacker]

I think that's a thinly veiled request MS is making to Sony and MS to release their games on their console. Or at least maybe some Japanese developers who have been getting a lot of critical love and fan response lately.:)

Unless MS actually think that CD3 and SoT are going to be the best current games available....in which case I actually feel sorry for Xbox owners.

[ImtiazKhan]

Lol. Is mike already feeling threatened by Sony's e3? Calm down, mike. Everything will be fine. No need to throw a hissy fit.

[Onig]

http://n4g.com/news/2066280...
????

[OB1Biker]

'Disagree. We want gamers to play the best games of the past, current, and future. It's what gamers have asked for.'

What does it have to do with PlayStation games?
Oh right, it's a free shot just because.
#itsfanboyswar4apieceofplasti c /s or so they say

[RhymeNorReason]

How is that a "free shot" when this morning some moron came out and said only 1.5% of gamers use the feature? I literally just beat Bayonetta on 360 yesterday after a week of play.

[OB1Biker]

Why would you feel concerned? He was not talking about 360 games in any way. Why would he?
If am xbox PR says something about BC I don't start thinking he's talking about PS3 games. Read his quote in full. They just stir sht for console war. Gamers shouldn't be manipulated into it and then be talked down as supposedly 'piece of plastic' warriors
That 1.5% thing is even not remotely related to this. It's an xbox studies isn't it. Why bringing that crap?

[Neonridr]

Slams Backwards Compatibility.. Pumps up overpaying for playing PS3 games with lag.

[2pacalypsenow]

PS NOW is not BC, it's a way to stream PlayStation games on multiple devices like Sony and Samsung Tv's and Windows PC's...

[Neonridr]

and on your PS4.

[littletad]

Whether you disagree with it or not, having backward compatibility for games you previously owned or paid for, will never be a negative thing. Sony is simply downplaying the feature, and it isn't profitable for them, or at least in their eyes. But if you look at the twitter comments, a lot of them said they found new love for a series by the feature itself. That's the whole point of playing games, finding what you love to play, even if it's from last generation or current. It's one of the biggest plus. And what Sony is saying, is no different than saying back then that rumble was an outdated feature.

[OB1Biker]

I think your right. But I personally think the same as Jim Ryan
Thing is the topic here is the xbox guy 'responding' to the Sony guy pretending he's somehow involved in the discussion.
Sony does things like you say you can agree or disagree with but xbox are not involved whatsoever. It's hypocritical console war PR

[littletad]

Thanks for the healthy discussion, but to be fair, it's Sony who took jabs at the feature first. So technically, he was involved in the topic when Sony decided to downplay the feature. He's merely replying and reiterating that it's been a feature that fans wanted for a long time. It's been nothing but good for the xbox community, whether you use the feature or not, it's there.

[OB1Biker]

I disagree with your reply. Jim is obviously talking about PlayStation games. The two guys have no way of telling what the competition should or shouldn't do. They just do their own thing. Saying I disagree to the competition view is not really relevant. Just do your own thing. Also he's not saying 'fans' he s saying gamers as if he could talk for PS gamers.

[Kiwi66]

You could argue that Jim Ryan is talking about BC in general and not just for ps when he said its a most requested feature, which was true for xbox also

[OB1Biker]

@Kiwi
Here's the quote:
“When we’ve dabbled with backwards compatibility, I can say it is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much,”

“That, and I was at a Gran Turismo event recently where they had PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 games, and the PS1 and the PS2 games, they looked ancient, like why would anybody play this?”

He's talking about playstation games and Sony views 'when WE'
You can disagree all you want with his opinion but there's no way xbox games are involved in it

[OB1Biker]

Are people seriously thinking he was talking about Xbox 360 games???
Come on now.

[PhoenixUp]

Who doesn't love backwards compatibility? It was a huge factor in me being an early adopter on GBA, PS2, DS, Wii, PS3 & and its lack of being there was why I got PS4 so late

[TheColbertinator]

1.5%

Move along people. The discussion is over.

[JasonKCK]

https://twitter.com/XboxQwi...

"Scraping some data off servers gives an inaccurate view of what people do."

[Liqu1d]

Surely he won't mind providing better numbers then?

[JasonKCK]

Why don't you ask him?

In the meantime the data stands as inconclusive. Sorry to rain on your little parade.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

So the information gathered from Xbox Live servers is inaccurate? So all of those hours spent on Xbox Live and engagement numbers that Microsoft uses in PR statements every month are inaccurate too huh?

[JasonKCK]

That data didn't come from MS.

Try again.

[TheColbertinator]

Unless Mike or Phil provides the numbers,their claims are subject to criticism.

Not that they care,BC is a PR weapon in my opinion.

[JasonKCK]

Then where are the Sony numbers?

[rainslacker]

"Scrapping together some metric of ones own devising to give an impressive PR statement gives an inaccurate view of what people do" -me

This is what MS does almost every time they release a number. What the report saying 1.5% did is no less valid, and probably actually more accurate than any statement from MS since it's not held down by unknowns or PR spin, just a straight up reporting of numbers.

If Ybarra wants to make his claim, he should back it up with his own numbers, because he neither cites an accurate view of what people do, nor does he deny the actual numbers involved in the report. Ybarra is implying something, but gives no actual evidence that more than 1.5% of the time is spent playing BC games, nor does it show that Ryan is wrong in his assertion, because it offers up no numbers to say that a lot of people use the feature. In Ryan's case, he doesn't have to at this venture, because he was speaking generally, and there are other numbers which can be looked at to support his argument.

[JasonKCK]

Then the same should apply to Sony since they made the claim first.

It really is that simple.

[Onig]

What?
http://n4g.com/news/2066280...

[TheColbertinator]

Exactly. Notice my comment in that article. We can all move on from BC now.

Perhaps the new games at E3 will get us in different discussions.

[thisismyaccount]

... and that is why Microsoft waited "patiently" for over 2 years before releasing this feature onto the XBone, rite? Ybarra? Why didn´t ya have BackwardComp. since 2013? Maybe because NO one gave a wet hoot about it back then?

But now over 2 years later (current console cycle is 3.5year old), it suddenly is the most important thing to have ... all about choice, like the Kinect promese. Even after dropping it and essentially giving the middle finger to early day 1 adopters, you had the audacity to lie to everyone, telling the kinect was going to play a big role ... even though you had dropped it because "choice".

Nearly 4 years later, still no Kinect support from Micorsoft and what ever happened to that "with the cloud, every XBone will get stronger over the years" "dogma" we will never find out.

Dont play the role of the victim, without the xbox fans your console would have died long time ago. Without them asking for changes (the famous 180º), you would still be scamming netflix users a fee (xbox live) and still had a pointless kinect accessory no one but a handful cared about ... give your thanks to your fanbase, they ever literally dickslapped you when you revealed the current xbox back in 2013. But now to say that, it is an important thing to have, even though you didnt care about it for the first 2 years ... seems a bit hypocritical.

Also it should tell you, when out of those few BC titles one and only one outsells newer titles on your current xbox that something is going wrong quite badly ... does that mean most xbone fans prefer BC titles over newer games?

[Many-hat5]

As I've suggested elswhere, Sony will be supporting BC soon enough. Whether they like it or not. Shorter console genrations will dictate this. Buy a PS5, two years later we have PS6. Like it or not, it's the way the market is moving.Therefore, logic says BC will be needed more and more. Maybe not quite in the same way. I mean people will still be buying new for previous gen, but playing on latest gen if you follow me. Just like we have now with Pro and the coming Scorpio. Anyway, that's my view on BC. Right, back to WO Omega,old game yeah, but still awesome.

[AznGaara]

Unless they totally change the hardware, it'll be much easier for BC on a PS5 than it was for the PS3 (Cell) to the PS4 (x86). I also highly doubt the PS4 is even strong enough to emulate a PS3 properly. Which is another reason why I don't think it'll come at all this generation.

[rainslacker]

No doubt. I can't find the quote, but Sony has actually explicitly stated this will very likely be the case with the shift to maintaining a consistent set of hardware within the console itself through the x86 architecture. I believe it was in one of the Cerny interviews after the reveal.

[segamaniaco]

Switch has no BC at all, transfer system or virtual console, and its selling like hot cakes anyway. Ive been transferring my games since wii and dsi and now everything i got is lost.

[bellyboy]

every month, games with gold, i download all games including 360 ones....and i havent played a single one. yes, theres a strong argument that a huge catalog of games shouldnt just get binned when you buy a new console, but i spent years playing that catalog, i want new games, so i see why sony have this stance, we also need to remember that the ps3 was a cell processor, nigh on impossible id wager to get those games running with a jaguar cpu architecture, id rather the devs time used up on new ideas, not redoing old games on new hardware.

[King_Lothric]

BC is a good feature when your console lacks a good stream of new and exclusive games. Without BC, Xbox would be performing even worst than it is right now.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Truth. Pure and simple.

[hermsgerms]

That seems contradictory to everything else everyone has been saying, the "Only 1.5% of people use BC" argument.

[kevnb]

I don't understand why Ryan is even going on about it.

[Liqu1d]

He was being interviewed.

http://time.com/4804768/pla...

[jokerisalive]

He is 100% correct and only an idiot would say 'Oh...I dont want it even though it is free....' Sony wants to charge you for BC thru PSNOW so they can make more profit for the PS division which is its own entity now and driven purely by profit. They are doing well and why would they want to cut into that margin by giving users BC for free? Think about it. So thats why their PR and others are going on about how they dont feel its a worthwhile investment...yet they have a service that offers it ......conflicted much???

[MilkMan]

Sony is full of caca on this one. They dont have a problem with bc as long as you oay for it. Bc is and always will be important.

[TKCMuzzer]

One last time for you...Sony are not charging for BC, PSNow is a streaming service that allows you to stream games from the PS era for a price, it is a service, it is not BC. If you own a PS3 game you can still play it in a PS3 free of charge, thats right, it will still work for free.
You would only be charged for BC, if the PS4 was BC with your PS3 discs and Sony charged you to play that disc based game in your PS4. It's quite simple, especially if you don't try and twist it to back up an argument which lets face it, only matters to 1.5% of Xbox One owners.

[Trekster_Gamer]

Sony craps on users in this area and they are blindly praised !!

They are are far distant 3rd compared to MS and Nintendo whereas BC is concerned. Sony screwed us last gen as well. They touted the PS3 as backwards compatible machine and then changed it to where you couldn't play PS2 games.

[TKCMuzzer]

I have a PS3 that plays PS2 and PS1 games, do you want to buy it? I think I clearly remember Sony saying that they ditched BC in the PS3 as it added £60 to the cost of the machine and data they had from all the launch PS3's showed that very few people were playing PS2 games let alone PS1, so the cost was outweighing it's worth.
You could still pick up a launch PS3 for quite a while into the PS3's life cycle if you really wanted to, a good couple of years.

[BeOpenMinded]

I came here to laugh at the articles about Sony saying this and MS saying that, it's so silly. Then I end up laughing at the rabid fanboying

[Condemnedman]

Well I use it just finished mass effect 2 and 3 and will jump on some assassins Creed games when I get the chance . It'd easy to down play something when you don't have it. it's just corporate talk for it doesn't suit our business model. all I can say is the people saying bc is not needed aren't genuine gamers just trolls with nothing better in their life

[TKCMuzzer]

No offence but I don't have time to finish all the current gen games I have to play let alone last gens, plus your comment about real gamers is nonsense, if real gamers were bothered about last gen games they would keep the hardware it was originally bought for as that would be the true BC experience, I understand that would not support your opinion.
And of course your argument works both ways, playing down the importance of exclusives, it's just corporate talk for it doesn't suit our business model, maybe that is the true underlying issue and the reason you have time to play BC games and others like myself struggle to get through the current collection of games.

By the way, I took offence to your comment, I don't want or desire BC, I have old consoles but I am a genuine gamer, don't judge people because they don't find something as important as you do.

[2cents]

I agree with this disagreement.

[Hardiman]

I have fifty PS4 games right now and a good chunk have been completed but on the flip side there's a good chunk that hasn't and with all that's coming and the ones that are out that I haven't gotten yet backwards compatibility is the farthermost thing from my mind. If it was a feature for the PS4 then I suppose some would enjoy it but for me I literally never say man I wish my Pro could play my PS3 games. I'm not sure why it's a selling point in 2017? This new gen started in 2013 and this fall it will be four years so I would like to think that new and exciting software would be a much more viable talking point.

[frostypants]

I mean he kind of sidesteps the point. Gamers definitely asked for it, but it's a matter of statistical fact that few are actually using it.

https://arstechnica.com/gam...

I think it's a nice to have for sure but I doubt anyone will bust their tails to provide it in the future. That said, I think we've hit a point where the fundamental architecture of these consoles will remain fairly consistent, making it much easier to provide.

[preciousdeath]

It’s really the only thing Microsoft has going for it. But from what the statistics show, it’s not a tremendous success. Neither is PSNow. But, what Sony is doing with fresh, new games IS a success and they are clearly focusing on that, unlike Microsoft. If you have no fresh new games to play, “Here play these old ones."

[Terror2k9]

I don't see why Sony players which I own as well are so worried about Xbox backwards compatibility. I am happy I get to own the the games I already paid for on one console and can play them whenever I want. I have beaten so many 360 games that I never got to beat. Thank you microsoft for allowing us to play games we already paid fo not some stupid subscription that the games don't always work correctly.

[Brohan]

I'm just gonna say that Xbox is the place to be for gamers that wants to play their favorite games New or old no matter what.

[XBManiac]

Total disconnection between what us, Xbox gamers, want and what Xbox marketing people want...?
What do new comers prefer? An old game with not many improvements or an remastered version with something better and errors fixed? I think younger players prefer remastered games, not BC, because not many games get older in good shape... So, yes, BC is another option and it is good to have more options. But if BC costs millions that could go to better CPU (Ryzen instead of Jaguar), better GPU (Vega instead of Polaris), better RAM (HBM2 instead of GDDR5) and more... many more exclusive games... What'd you prefer, BC fans?

[Kavorklestein]

Well, since we're now suddenly splitting hairs and shifting the goalposts, and you're now talking about Hardware and Power, instead of backwards compatibility, then what do you think the Scorpio is all about? Now you just made it so there's two topics in this discussion that Microsoft is doing more than Sony.
At least on the flip side, I'm not lying through my teeth, and I'm not downplaying Sony's exclusives and saying they don't matter, I'm actually adult enough to say I wish Microsoft had more exclusive games coming... what's your reason for lying through your teeth and saying backwards compatibility is useless and that Scorpio offering more power and PS4 Pro is worthless?
Simply because a guy at Sony says so? Talk about sheepish and ignorant

[XMarkstheSpot]

Lol why are PlayStation fans so wound up at what Xbox fans are allowed to do and cant do on their system? Who cares if Xbox can do BC, you don't play Xbox. Leave us Xbox players to what we like and you guys can sulk into what you guys cant do while we enjoy more options and features for our favorite console. No not everyone plays BC and who gives a rats ass what others think. The fact remains that people DO in fact play BC games, and on the Xbox user feedback site, BC WAS the top requested feature on the Xbox at the time with the MOST votes out of every other feature. The fact that if I choose to, I can pop a 360 game into my Xbox is a good option. The fact that anyone can argue against being able to play games you've bought on a newer system ins ABSURD, it doesn't matter what YOU think. Stop thinking about YOU YOU YOU, it isn't about YOU and it isn't about making the whole Xbox install base play older Xbox games. Its all about OPTIONS, and being able to play what you want, when you want, where you want, with the device you want. As for me, someone with over 130k Gamerscore, more score than probably any Sony Fans complaining about Xbox not having games, being able to play BC whenever I want without the need to break out an older system in a good feature for me. The fact hat uill be able to play ALL of my games in one location, on one device, is a good feature for me. The fact that I can play older games, or games that ive may of missed last gen, such as Mass Effect games that were FREE to EA Access subscribers is a good feature for me. How about you PlayStation fans just sulk in your room and play your game conole of choice, and let us who like Xbox play our game system of choice.

[MagicBeanz]

No one said it wasn't asked for in fact Jim said very specifically it was one of the most requested, but its not used as much as its claimed to be and the data that was given proved that. "Scraping some data off servers gives an inaccurate view of what people do", that's funny Mike seems to be accurate enough when you do it.

[QUIMICOMORTAL]

He disagrees! but he doesnt counter the claim! there is no "yeah, we have data that shows a lot of gamers DO use the BC"

He only says what "MS wants" not what gamers play!

Thats why Ars technica's data show Ryan is right!

[Minimox16]

All I want its able to use all my psn games (purchase) in ps3 in my ps3 aka, psn and ps3 games digitally, I have a tons of games in my download list and every now and then i have to turn my ps3 to play those digital games in my ps3, recently I have been tried to plat Soul Calibur 5, Killzone 3MP a under defeat HD, will be nice if I can play all those digital games in my ps4

[shinoff2183]

Im all about sony and dont really like xbox at all, check my past posts. I thiink they are wrong though. Id love to have a ps4 I could put all my ps games into. Ive got a collection of over 700 ps games alone. to have all that stuff plugged in kinda sucks. Also Id love to play my ps1 and ps2 games with a wireless controller.

[CitizenFour]

The "Study" is not accurate: The article making these claims states "On top of that, the only backward compatible game that made the list of the top 100 most popular Xbox One apps was Call of Duty: Black Ops." Also, It's based of of 930K users... that hardly makes their findings accurate...

According to this post, Black Ops is the only 360 game in the top 100 games, however, if you take a look at the Xbox live most played right now, you will see that Black Ops 2 is at #9 (which means that it has tens of thousands of players), Assasins Creed is at #30, Black ops 1 is at #34, and Lego star wars is at #51. This list only goes up to 55, so who knows how many more 360 games are in the top 100.

https://www.microsoft.com/e...

[Chano]

On microsoft's feedback page - BC was a highly requested feature I even voted on it too before its announcement at e3. It wasn't just a feature to throw out there just to have it, it was requested by its users I love playing left 4 dead 2 on the xbox one aside from other multiplayer games because you don't even need a gold membership to play multiplayer on bc so that's cool whenever I don't feel like getting gold i can still play those online it's a nice feature

[Harkins1721]

BC is always welcomed

[Altovoltage]

I don't bother with backwards comparable games the only game I tried since they realeased bc was black ops 2

[Shadyceaser]

If you use ps now only one time ... You loose this argument.... You paid money .... Xbox is free.

[MazeRunner]

To say PSnow is better than BC is just ignorant

[Silly gameAr]

Not sure why people are acting like something that's been around for years (BC), is only JUST NOW.a really important part of gaming. Oh wait, yes I am sure. Because, a company is trying to use it as a selling point, and that fanbase thinks that it's a must have feature all of a sudden. The company that's not offering this cutting edge feature is a greedy, evil company, that's trying to cash in.

What's funny is this, evil company is the company that bought BC to consoles in the first place.

[modelgod]

Besides the first quarter 2017 Sony onslsught, I belive this gen of gaming is trash! ! That's a ton of PS3 games, and 360 games that I haven't finished and there's nothing wrong with BC. I'm not just saying this for arguments sake, but I play BC games all the time. I'm playing Street fighter and finishing up some achievements in Mass Effect. If Sony offered BC, it'll be a different story. If it's cost effective, I don't see why it would be perceived as a bad idea. I mean....if you want to talk about bad ideas, you should fire whoever came out w/the concept of a " PS PRO." That's what you call a TERRIBLE IDEA!

[Chumdiddy]

I get it when you're dealing with consoles that have completely different, proprietary architecture. It's not easy for a console to emulate a PS2 and especially a PS3 on x86 PS4 architecture that isn't that strong generation jump for consoles.

Moving forward? Have to have it. Each company will use x86 from here on out so there is no excuse from here. PS5, Scorpio, etc better play PS4, X1, etc.

[GoodnessGreatness]

More like "We want gamers to play old xbox games on their new xbox one because we can't make any good new games"

[IamTylerDurden1]

I still have my PS3 and 360 so BC is a non issue for me. Also, i'd rather play new or legitimately remade or remastered games than the same old unimproved game that i already played and own.

[EricHonolulu]

Remaster the classic old games in 1080p or higher and 60fps or higher. NOT remake them.

[BadElf]

Exactly.