Uncharted 4 Director Says They Had To Ask One 'Sexist Focus Tester' To Leave

Not everyone was happy with new Uncharted 4 characters like Nadine “Triceps” Ross. In fact, according to director Neil Druckmann, his team had to ask an angry focus tester to leave the room after he freaked out over the game’s portrayal of women.

[Null1980]

Spoilers:

Seriously do not read past this point if you haven't finished UC4:

I like the idea having Nathan and Elena's daughter Cassie helm a future adventure, even if it's just DLC. (hopefully she's older by that time) :)

*sheesh, so many downvotes. I only brought it up bc the focus tester complained that giving Nathan & Elena a daughter was shoehorning another female character as part of a feminist agenda. Doesn't matter to me if their kid was a boy or girl, just happy to see someone who may carry on their legacy.

[naruga]

Sharkeesian idiotic influence is obvious at U4 ..if they really wanted to represent genders equal...they should have removed the "Women must not get hurt" stereotype and {SPOILERS SPOILERS}---->> made Nadine being a real unethical person at the end, like Rafe and has a similar end... though they made her repentant and semi-ethical person (classic stereotype for Afro-americans in holywood) in order to follow the abysmal and baseless critique of i-m-promoting -my-agenda Sharkeesian

[Null1980]

That's cool. What does that have to do with my comment though?

[Nitrowolf2]

It didn't have anything to do with your comment, his comment was originally posted below In now edited commwnt. I think he just wanted the attention being the second comment on the page :p

I don't understand what you're trying to get at with the whole they should have made her equal to the males, not stronger.

I don't get it with people if she gets hurt it's all of a sudden sexist, and if she doesn't get hurt now it's all of a sudden not considered equal?

Nadine as a person in the game was already pretty unethical because she ran shorelines, the biggest difference is that Rafe was clearly obsessed and even had mental issues, something she realized.

Also that tester is a moron. What difference would it have made if Nadine was a boy or a girl they would have still kicked Nathan Drake's ass. Why? Because they have years of experience in the military combat training, where with no disrespect to Nathan Drake he has years of Street brawling

[DragonDDark]

Anita is a dumb and pretty sexist herself but her analogy is not really that bad. What is wrong with thinking what if it was a girl?

This analogy even works in bad people like rapists etc... some people today think women are angels and do nothing wrong but some women get away with crimes like that because of her sex.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Bla bla bla

Shut up with this sexist diarrhea. So stupid... Nadinr was a bad ass mercenary. What's wrong with having a daughter now? Jesus christ!

[Summons75]

You couldn't be more wrong. Nadine was intelligent and knew when to call it quits unlike Rafe and Sam hence why she pointed out "look around, anyone obsessed with this treasure got what they deserved"

[Ashlen]

Ya know, Ainta was annoying but her discussion spawned something even more annoying than she was. The whole group of people who now insist and even get offended anytime there is a character that isn't a straight white male. The people who insist anytime there is a female character or any kind of minority that the only possible reason they could have been put into the game was some sort of secret agenda. While I despise the censorship aspect of the current discussion I welcome diversity in gaming.

[rainslacker]

More spoilers

Her character was a bad guy. She wasn't repentant at the end. She left because she had nothing left to gain. She left the two of them to fight it out, and didn't care if they died. I feel she did what she thought was best for her. Isn't that what most feminist would want? As far as being stronger, she kicked both the Drake brothers asses at the same time. She just got sucker punched to knock her out.

UC always had Elena. She could always hold her own against anyone. She was the one that was always the more pragmatic sensible character of the group. It also had Marlowe, a tough as nails business woman who took what she wanted.

I don't feel the creators of UC are trying to represent any particular group, I just feel they want to create characters that relate to one another in some way, and in some cases they happen to be female, sometimes because they want more females, although, I will admit there was no particular reason for Nadine to be female, or black, but I don't know how much of that came down to representation, and how much was just them wanting to make her female and black. Honestly, she was hardly in the game, so she was pretty under utilized either way.

Drake himself is hesitant to hurt women. He didn't want to fight Nadine because of it. That doesn't make him sexist, it's just a personality trait that's shared by a lot of people, as many people of his age were raised with the "never hit a girl" mentality. Such a personality trait does not make the game sexist, nor the developers sexist.

As far as the daughter....really? It's sexist to make them have a daughter? We wouldn't see some stupid comment about how they had to make their offspring a son? There's just no winning the argument against people who want to find sexism in everything, as if everything is done with some sort of gender agenda attached.

[DarXyde]

SPOILERS AHEAD:

Repentant and semi ethical? No, not really. She was never like any of them. Her motivation for the treasure was to keep her mercenaries well funded (who betrayed her anyway, by the way). Vastly contrasts with (a) a guy trying to live out his childhood dream of finding the treasure, (b) said man's brother who wanted to help him, and (c) a greedy prick who just wanted to make history that didn't involve his inheritance (which was misguided anyway since he needed their inheritance to get as far as he did).

Nadine's character is not at all portrayed in a sexist way. You need to consider who she is. She's a South African leader of her own mercenary group and is an incredibly skilled combatant who none of the characters could beat on their own, much like Snake Eater's The Boss. Had she been the last boss, there's no way any of the Drake brothers could beat her, made worse by the fact that one of them was already incapacitated. She was in a prime position to rid herself of both nuisances. She chose not to, but that's hardly repentant or ethical. Odds are, they'd kill each other or one would kill the other, only to be burned alive. Bullets were not necessary and staying any longer would've put her own escape at risk.

She's simply not greedy and far more calculating than the others. I don't think you were paying attention to her character very closely. You obviously saw that she was fine with what they had and was ready to leave, but Rafe got greedy and wanted to go after Sam. If anything, she was teaching her employer a lesson by basically letting him burn. With no mercenaries loyal to her, why bother trying to collect a reward to share with them?

She was a consistently strong and calculating character and each one of them had their own strengths. Nadine's powerful character probably just draws attention because she's a woman, but that's erroneous: more than anything, you need to consider that she's from South Africa and LED mercenaries (not followed. But a part of. Led.). I'd venture to guess that she grew up during apartheid. She's not tough for no reason. It was all very well written in my opinion.

[Ashlen]

@bruce755 Oh you mean a secret agenda?

When is it not forced in the view of "these people"? It seems that their perspective is that it's not possible for anyone to actually want to add a woman or a minority of their own free thought. The only possible reason is some sort of agenda. The only people who feel like it's forced are those who are offended. If people don't mind diversity then why are we having this discussion?

[Dee_91]

@Ashlen
I'm a huge critique of Anita, but I have been saying this since day 1, since the whole zoe quinn thing started. I have nothing against having more diverse and complex characters, but she and her elk shook the hornet's nest of idiots, by inserting this whole shaming aspect into it. I felt it was counterproductive, and sure enough, you have idiots like the guy mentioned in the article who are incapable of distinguishing the difference between propaganda and genuineness from the developer.
Extremist breed extremist.

[yeahokwhatever]

@nitrowolf
https://www.washingtonpost....
http://www.sandiegouniontri...
http://www.pressherald.com/...

So no, even combat-trained women typically cannot overpower a moderately fit male. In this game, Drake has by this time single handedly killed hundreds of foes throughout his adventures. He's also possessing the upper body strength to out-tarzan tazan. The focus tester may be sexist, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

[ChickeyCantor]

> the whole group of people who now insist and even get offended anytime there is a character that isn't a straight white male.

Strawmaning so hard it's burning up. If you're talking about GG they are up for diversity, but not when it's driven by political means.

[andrewsquall]

@naruga Women must not get hurt? Did you see Elena at the end of Uncharted 2??? Also I got a few jabs in there on Nadine and I'm sure you would know that if you played the game too.

[DragonKnight]

Druckmann is a feminist and a friend of Anita Sarkeesian, but giving Nathan and Elena a daughter is not even worth talking about because it's a non-issue. The real problem is Nadine. They clearly were pandering with her character. Watch Gaming Sins' "Everything Wrong With Uncharted 4" video and he makes a good point.

Nathan went face to face with a trained fighter in prison, over 15 years of time he's fought a lot of people, he has a size advantage over Nadine. Yet in every encounter we're expected to believe that Nathan is outclassed by someone half his size as though he's never been in a fight and she's a super soldier?

Then there's the fact that Nadine is allowed to avoid your attacks but you can't do the same with hers. The fights against Nadine are scripted losses that are unrealistic and only serve the purpose of making a "strong black woman" character, and in that they did an awful job as it's clearly obvious that it is a pandering job. May as well call Nadine 2 different tropes in one. The Token Black trope and the Shoehorned In Strong Female Antagonist trope.

We won't be seeing those in Tropes vs. Women though.

[DragonKnight]

@DarkXyde: Nadine inherited Shoreline from her father. That piece of information is an optional conversation between Nate and Elena. She didn't earn the right to lead Shoreline, her dad left it to her. Nadine is a token character, made to appear more badass than she actually should be, all for the sake of "diversity" and "inclusion."

Her entire army, which btw HAS to include more capable fighters than her and whom are ALL male (notice no female soldiers of any color because we can't kill women but it's ok to off every man in sight), was bested repeatedly by a ragtag bunch of adventurers. One with 15 years of experience killing hundreds, one with 15 years surviving prison. So these two guys are capable of killing seasoned professional soldiers, but can't cut it in hand to hand combat against their lesser experienced leader?

And you can't smell that B.S. from a mile away? Come on.

[Ashlen]

@DragonKnight

It's a video game, if the developers want they can have an unpunchable baby one shot Drake. Why are you even getting so up in arms? Because a woman can beat Drake? You claim to support diversity yet you're in every topic talking about how it's some sort of agenda that there is any kind of woman or minority in a game.

What's the big deal, why do you even care? Video games aren't reality, and it doesn't have to be an agenda for someone to put a strong character that isn't a straight white male in a game.

Edited to add:
And it was brought up that there are no female enemies to gun down and that it must be part of the agenda. But after thinking about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the reason for that is ratings boards. In the US the game is sold as Teen which it probably barely was able to get. If they added shooting women (right or wrong) it would have been harder to get that rating. I would wager that on top of that there would be countries that would object very strongly to Drake running around shooting and killing women to the point the game might not even be able to be sold there.

[jb227]

@naruga
"if they really wanted to represent genders equal...they should have removed the "Women must not get hurt" stereotype"

!Spoiler for UC4 &TLOU!

I'm sorry but did you even play the game or is your memory just fogged by your own agenda? Nadine got plenty hurt, she was slammed against walls, headbutted....Drake superman punched her through 2 floors into a free fall. Fairly certain all of that hurt. Ever played TLOU? Both of the female leads aside from Ellie were both killed by men.

Nadine was just as unethical as Rafe, she was willing to kill both Sam & Nate for her bottom line, she just wasn't willing to risk her own life & well being for it. Common sense stuff here. You are the one bending the narrative to fit your own paper thin argument. Nothing you said has any basis in reality. Are there some horrible feminists & gender equality goons out there? Sure, most likely as many of those as there are people with your own viewpoints. Neither of you are right.

[ZombieGamerMan]

You know Anita is scum and more sexist than any of the strawman boogymen she's created but if there is 1 positive thing that she has ever done in her life no matter how small was give game designers the idea to just write stronger women to prove her wrong. Still though at the end of the day she would still call Uncharted 4 sexist for having a woman be the bad guy. Really she would have an issue with every Nadine scene in the game because Nadine is beautiful, strong, independent, a mercenary and all around everything.

[rainslacker]

@Dragon

Nathan is more of a street fighter. He's not really what I'd consider a competent fighter. He's often clunky and fumbles around a lot. Nate is good against those who are also more street fighter types, but against a trained martial artist, they will likely beat them every time. A competent fighter, say a boxer, could probably outclass a trained martial artist by brute force and landing a good blow, but even then, it wouldn't be that easy.

Either way, I think you're over analyzing it. Nadine was an antagonist, and the story required her to beat Drake. She didn't beat Drake because she was female, or black. When the story required Nate to win the fight, he did. Nadine didn't need to be female or black, and maybe ND decided to make her female or black to try and represent, but does it really matter? Was her character lessened for being made female or black? I'd say her character was what it was, and it served it's purpose to the story. I didn't find her to be a compelling character, and likely could have been left out completely, but in no way am I seeing how her character can be considered sexist, her inclusion as sexist or racist, or why people are trying to find sexism or racism with the character at all.

UC3 had a male big brutish fighter, who was competent, and Nathan was pretty useless against him until he managed to get some cheap shots in, which he took advantage of. Nate never had that chance with Nadine because she was more skilled.

I just don't feel Nadine's character being female or black really had anything to do with her character. I understand why people may not be happy about them making her female or black just because it's seen as pandering, but ultimately, the character wasn't changed in any way that I'm aware of. I'm not against the inclusion of these things if they don't affect the character, and aren't done to make some sort of political statement, and nothing in UC4 gave me that vibe.

As far as some of the other comments, which you echo, about Drakes ability to fight, and how that isn't represented in the story, people do have to remember there is a certain level of suspension of disbelief which has to be applied to game play, and any story that is attached to it. It's not like it's new that something comes along within the story that defies what is shown in game play, and for the most part, people have come to accept it, because game play being too realistic often falls flat and isn't that fun.

[TwoForce]

@DragonKnight if you think Neil is friend with Anitia, then you need to think again. Every developers can get attacked by SJW. I will never like Anitia.

[DragonKnight]

Neil is the one who introduced Anita as she received an Ambassadorial award for her "work" in making games better. You will never see Anita or Neil talk bad about each other and Neil is a known feminist.

[TwoForce]

@DragonKnight Do you really think he agree with her ? Maybe. Hating feminist is true, but i'm not involved the conflict. Neil want to make a characters to be loveable , not gender. Can you be more specific ? If I don't want to hurt a woman even they are bad or good because people think I'm feminist. No, that not true at all. I will not punch a woman because it's my personality trait, but i can hurt their feeling and mind.

[BLAKHOODe]

I like the idea of the Drake legacy continuing with Cassie; with her mom and dad making cameo appearances. I kinda liken it to "Creed" being a continuation of Rocky Balboa's story, which you know, we'll likely eventually see Rocky's death in a future "Creed" movie. I can see that happening with Nathan Drake, as the franchise is passed down to Cassie. The only problem is she would be compared more to Lara Croft than Nathan Drake ever was.

[solidsnake222]

Do you realize you said not to read past the very last line in the article?

[DragonKnight]

@Ashlen: If it's just a video game, why is diversity needed then? Why is there a lack of diversity in killed women if reality doesn't matter? Seems like you're creating some red herrings here.

Diversity for its own sake will always be a bad idea because it will never have the passion put behind it that it requires to be any good. I'll take a Samus Aran or a Faith over a Nadine Ross any day. Hell, even what's her name from TLOU who led the Fireflies is a better example of diversity done well than Nadine is.

But do continue with your red herrings.

[Sono421]

Honestly I think the DLC should focus on the gap in the timeline WARNING SPOILERS AFTER THIS POINT

Thanks to Uncharted 4 we see Nathan and Sam run off together as kids.. but then the next thing we see (In Uncharted 3) Is Nate as a kid by himself when he meets sully (obviously older than he was when he ran away with Sam). What happened to Sam? Because next thing we see is Nate and Sam together again (adults at this point) in that prison twords the beginning of Uncharted 4. Now that is a pretty big gap and we have no idea how Sam and Nate get split up and how they get back together. This is what I would want the DLC to cover.

[rainslacker]

Sam said at the end of the first chapter that he was going to go away for a while, but he wanted to get his mom's stuff first, which was shown in a later chapter.

It was never specified where Sam was going, but he indicated it was to work. I don't know if he was going to be a thief or whatever.

Later, after Nate meets back up with Elena after being marooned, after the chapter where they get their moms book, Nate says that after that(assuming it was after Nate left the orphanage, met with Sully, and eventually back up with his brother, Nate said they swapped going to prison or ended up there at the same time, which would lead one to believe at some point they met with Rafe and started their hunt, which lead them to them all being in prison.

Sam also had some dialogue that he knew Sully, so it's safe to assume that Nate, Sam, and Sully all worked together at some point. Sam wasn't overly fond of Sully early in the game, or was at least indifferent to him, and it'd be interesting to see why.

[Scatpants]

Yeah they could have her do something like raid tombs or something.

[ninsigma]

Wow that guy sounds like a complete tool. I mean, does it really matter?? It's not like was shoehorned, it works perfectly well within the story. Just sounds like being sexist out of principle to me.

[Ogygian]

With the divisive climate feminists have created though, everyone is "taking a side". I wish this wasn't the case, but it is.

In an ideal world, we would get diverse content, with some strong female characters, some weak, some fully dressed, and some flaunting their assets. But this is not the world we live in today.

When devs at least acknowledge that there are non-feminists out there who like different things to feminists, and whose views are legitimate, and taken into consideration (instead of being treated like "misogynistic scum"), this whole thing will die down. But right now, most devs have jumped in with the feminists, and this alienates a massive proportion of their customer base.

[Eonjay]

It doesn't have to be 'take a side'. Thats just bullshit to keep people divided. Make up your own mind.

[rezzah]

"Everyone"*

[ZombieGamerMan]

Japan will always have our backs

[Articuno76]

TBH the methodology Naughty Dog is mentioning here is sounds exactly like shoehorning, albeit shoehorning that actually worked out okay. Although I'm making an assumption here.

You don't just take a character, then change an aspect about them if you can and run with it. A character is supposed to be thoroughly thought out and have a backstory that moulds them (even if that backstory doesn't make it into the game, the presence of it will lend the character believability/credibility because it informs their outlook).

If they changed a significant aspect of a character after they draw up all those specifics then that's just plain silly and the original design would have made for a more convincing character (this is the assumption I mentioned). If, however, they changed that aspect of the character early on in the characterisation process, it wouldn't matter because the character would have still been moulded in a cohesive way around those set aspects.

The question is, which is it? Going by the limited amount of screentime Nadine (or any of the new female characters for that matter) gets in Uncharted 4 it could be either. There simply hasn't been enough exposure for the audience to tell.

[naruga]

lame Neil Druckmann

[nX]

Have you ever read your own comments...?

[DragonDDark]

Spoilers

yelling things like “Not you too, Naughty Dog!” because they dared to make Nathan Drake have a daughter instead of a son.

[ninsigma]

Yeah that was pretty freaking dumb.

[OB1Biker]

Wtf? Haha
I loved it, I got a daughter myself.

[yeahokwhatever]

I personally think him having a son would've been more exciting because it would have made Elena even more worried when he grows and starts getting into trouble, and then Nate could live vicariously through his adventures. Now, Nate will be the protective one, and so they will have to overpower that by making her cartoonishly "badass", changing the feel of the game and not really being as emotionally connectable as the other way around. Unless they go with 2 worried parents which would be super annoying.

[UltraNova]

IMO its about creating a new 'Lara Croft' vibe for the Uncharted series. They said it would be the last but what they meant was it would be Nathan's last Uncharted. I will not be surprised if the Uncharted series gets rebooted with Drake's daughter at the helm, that way ND and Sony can hit two sparrows with one stone (continuing their cash cow IP and satisfying a certain part of the populous).

[StifflerK]

SPOILER ALERT - DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED UC4

I like Nadine, she's basically MayDay from A View to a Kill - except she lives at the end.
What I didn't like was the lack of control during those fights , compared to the one with Rafe at the end. The Nadine fights pretty much play out the same either way and that to me that just isn't fun.

It's sad to see people freak out over characters like Nadine, but to be fair we have plenty in the media already who freak out over a main character being white, male or straight. So , ya know....

I liked the epilogue with Cassie - although I'm skeptical if they do ever continue the series with her how they'l be able to differentiate it against Tomb Raider.
Personally I'd like to see them continue the series with Chloe and Cutter.

[ameliabaz]

I liked how the Nadine fights were all the same. She was a trained mercenary, while Drake is primarily an adventurer with basic melee/gun skills. So it makes sense that he would be outclassed in a one-on-one fight. It felt very realistic; like what an actual fight with a trained soldier would feel like.

[StifflerK]

I meant from a gameplay perspective - Nadine being stronger/winning is fine.
Like with the fight with Rafe you have some degree of control to counter/avoid the attacks, with Nadine you don't, it may as well have just been a cut-scene.
When you also consider it's a boss battle - with barely any interaction, it's an anti-climax.
It would've been more exciting to feel like you're part of the battle rather than just an observer.

[Vegamyster]

Nate has fought pirates, mercs, taken on huge brutes in 1v1 fist fights, been in bar & prison brawls so i wouldn't say his skills were basic lol.

[Godmars290]

Only it sounds counter to how UC3 played. There Drake got into plenty of fights and fought on even ground against mercs.

[Articuno76]

I thought they were setting up The Adventures of Sam and Sully at the end there. I just don't see how Cassie could become the kind of adventurer an Uncharted game needs without some huge life changing event thrust upon her, Tomb Raider 2013 style.

[NotEvenMyFinalForm]

They have a focus group to hear opinions about the game but when they hear them they are like: gtfo, muh feelz!

So what's the point then? If all you want to hear it's what you want to hear.

[rainslacker]

Focus groups are to get critique which can be used to help them make the game(or movie, or whatever). They test people's reactions. The article made it sound like the guy was just being hostile and ugly due to his beliefs. While one's beliefs are essential in gauging how different people will react to things, they shouldn't be done in a way which is unproductive.

[ArmoredCoreVI]

I don't understand why it's seemingly a crime to portray women as sexy in video games. There are sexy, feminine women in every other medium of entertainment but god forbid you have one female showing cleavage in today's video games. You'll be branded sexist and evil.
The exclusion of donut/overweight Drake and this really disappoint me from Naughty Dog. It seems even they are succumbing to this political correct BS. smh.

Rockstar save us lol

I blame all this stupidity on Anita Sarkeesian.

[TwoForce]

I agree with you that Antia is annoying. But I don't care about her SJW BS. I enjoy Uncharted 4 because i love the story and the characters. I don't care the characters is male or female. All i care about is how well their performance and acting. I remembered that consumers care about people performance and acting. Characters need to be likeable and understand what they are and what they do. Not some gender BS.

[Underworld]

Sarkeesian's work has affected Naughty Dog? Well that's disappointing to hear. She's dishonest and sexist herself.

I will say I found the fight between Nadine and Sam and Drake kinda annoying. Both are pretty buff guys, and Sam spent 15 years in prison probably getting into countless fights, and Drake spent almost his whole life fighting countless mercenaries yet both have their asses kicked at the same time by Nadine? And they couldn't bring themselves to have Drake or Sam land even one punch?

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

You don't win easily againts a karate adversary. I had a friend in my country that I could never land a hit

[DragonDDark]

I don't know why you have many disagrees... what you said is true. You can't won easily against a karate adversary.

[Ashlen]

Ya know, a lot of martial arts are entirely based around using peoples strength and momentum against them. And I encourage you to watch women's weightlifting. While a woman can never reach the maximum strength potential of a man. Women can be far stronger than your average man or even your above average man. And that goes the same for reflexes and reaction times.

[NarooN]

@Bruce

Nate also murdered hundreds of mercs in UC1 & 2, but then in UC2 he gets shot once in the gut in a cutscene and is mortally wounded for a while in both story and gameplay, even though he can shrug off tons of bullets and shrapnel otherwise with no problem.

It's called "Gameplay and Story Segregation". It's a long-standing trope and it's not going anywhere lol. People concerned about Nadine kicking their asses are just overthinking it.

[rainslacker]

@Naroon

https://youtu.be/iNlcGpUD5z...

[Articuno76]

But, TBH, I don't see why people finding Nadine's fighting prowess hard to believe. She has a formal military background and leads her own mercenary unit, so we can assume she has had her fair share of training and combat experience as well as some tactical prowess on the battlefield in general that mercenaries can respect.

After all, she's not punching above what her weight would suggest or Dragon Ball Z'ing Nate around the place or anything — she's just considerably more skilled (and presumably more experienced) than him and pretty buff for a woman. But in a way that makes sense.

Admittedly there might be an aspect of Naughty Dog reaching into their agenda bag. But when the end result is so finely executed I'm not sure that's a problem.

[47]

I'm not buying it. This is just ND trying to gain a few SJW points. Between the removal of doughnut Drake and this, it's clear they're mindful of how irritating the SJW crowd can be so they're trying to gain a buffer. Remove the fat version of Drake and make up some BS about a sexist focus tester. Love your game ND, but not buying the horses**t.

[ItsJustDante]

You can punch her dumbass, just admit you dont have a PS4 and go one

[opinionated]

Tester: Hey, why can't I hit the woman in this fight scene you created?

Druckman: Get the fuck out you swine!

[ItsJustDante]

You can punch her, he was just upset about the ending of the game and how Nadine was much stronger than Nathan

[opinionated]

No you can't lol. She was stronger because they didn't allow drake to fight her. It was a pointless fight and it didn't drive the story forward in any way as a plot device. I can understand the testers criticism. "Diversity for the sake of diversity" are those fight scenes in practice. Pointless political posturing. I'm not surprised the guy was kicked out and called a sexist. I'm not surprised Druckman has friends at kotaku either lol.

I don't know why the tester hated the ending though.. I guess it is a little weird to turn the "male version of Lara croft" into the female version of Lara croft. What's funny is that the tester said "not you too naughty dog" like Druckman hasn't always been like that. I called that shit a long time ago. Look at both games he directed and the stuff he admits in the article. He's about as activist as they come.

[IIFloodyII]

@Stonewall

Yes you can, it's just all but 2 (maybe 3) are with triangle, not square, the last attack in the fight is Drake punching her through a floor.
I do wish the fights was more than just Nate being on the densive though, was really unbelievable the second time, first fight I could ignore it, as Nate wasn't ready, didn't want to fight and Nadine is a much better fighter, but the second time she shouldn't have so easily dominated both Sam and Nate.

[DualWielding]

I don't think kicking out focus testers is a good idea even if they are sexist, from a business point of view you have to consider the reality that people who are racist/sexist/ect are part of the market for your game, and you want a focus group that does represent the reality of the market...

[SonyWarrior]

i agree im glad i didnt buy this game sounds like they are trying to push an agenda and are part of the politically correct movement garbage.

[DualWielding]

also I think consulting with Anita Sarkessian is like the stupidest thing ever, like what qualifies her to advice on game design.... it would make more sense to try the game with a focus group comprised by women WHO ACTUALLY PLAY GAMES and see what the think... or consult someone who is an actual expert on gender issues (instead of a random woman whose only merit is to have pointed a few obvious things on a couple youtube videos)

[TwoForce]

Not this again !

[Josuey]

the only thing i hate about neil druckmans naughty dog is all his SJW crap i dont like SJW influence in my games, seriously whats with all the SJW gimmicks in todays media? why does the new ghost busters have to be all women? what is with nadine beating up and man handling nathan drake? a guy that is in shape and has been through hell back and forth? killing hundreds of men? i dont mind women in video games i love women really but they are not stronger than men! this is science! unless its in a proper setting/gaming world where fantasy is the norm, (bayonetta,fighting games,etc) women should not be portrayed physically stronger than men because it is unrealistic. btw the only disagrees should get is by SJW on N4G, i love uncharted and naughty dog. they are my favorite developers, i just dont like SJW crap in my games for the sake of just having it to please the SJW losers.

[Afreelunch]

Wait... In a game where both male and female characters leap and fall inhuman distances to grab onto tiny ledges hundreds of times over without so much as breaking a fingernail, fight fictional monsters in fictional lost cities (none of which have any basis in scientific or biological fact) and survive hundreds of bullet wounds in the span of hours, you're trying to say that the badass leader of a merc army kicking the crap out of Drake is unrealistic? Get real dude.

[Josuey]

I missed the part where having super strength was part of uncharted, if this was a super hero game, and there was a genetically altered female aka having super powers id be OK with it. But its not the case, the fact that the game would not even allow drake or his brother to cleanly hit nadine is insulting.nathan drake a beast that has done it all, an experienced warrior. She may be a mercenary but outmuscleing a guy like it was nothing is a pathethic attempt to unrealisticly portray women and men as equals in physical strengnth

[LoveSpuds]

Uncharted has never been a particularly grounded experience and there has always been a disconnect between Drake's characterisation and the gameplay. In cut scenes he is a somewhat clumsy adventurer whereas he is the ultimate badass in gameplay sequences.

I loved every minute of Uncharted 4 and never, not once, did the story or characters feel forced. Until this completely bunk story appeared I hadnt heard anyone complain about the female characters. In fact I think ND did a decent job of portraying different female archetypes with Nadine being a complete badass and Elena playing a more traditional female role, doting, compassionate, loving (although still strong and quite handy in a gunfight).

As a father of a teenage daughter who loves gaming and especially loves Naughty Dog I am really pleased with the direction ND have taken their characterisation across both sexes in their games.

Just as i discount anything extreme I hear from the female side of the debate, I do the same with the male side but what I do notice is just how ugly, entenched and OTT the male side can be in debates.

[Okan-Ru]

more sjw nonsense. i liked uncharted 4. it was a pretty good game. unfortunately the fact Naughty Dog and there developers want to shoehorn and cater to the Feminist crowd this way by adding in "Strong Female characters" in the story is just appeasing the Feminists.

i will give them props at least they didn't make it based on Feminism like Ubisoft did in Far Cry 4 somewhat. The game was not entirely pandering to Feminists otherwise the game would of led to a disaster but it disappoints me they only added in the Female characters just because of pointless pandering. they should add in characters they wanted instead of being influenced by the likes of anita sarkeesian calling them "Sexist" if they don't. he said it himself it would of been a son. But of course the feminists would get in a uproar about this issue if it was. so they changed it because they feared the bully tactics used by feminists to get people to give into there agenda.

[Godmars290]

Who wants to bet that not only was this guy asked to leave, but any chances that might have had to be asked to participate in any other game test are gone as well.

[ChickeyCantor]

QA isn't a fun job. It's tedious. You will be doing the same thing over and over. It sucks the fun out of it.

[silvacrest]

So pretty much like any menial or low paying job then? at least your playing games, no matter the circumstances

[fashionst]

QA !== Focus Testing; he was a focus tester, not a member of the functional game testing team.

[moegooner88]

Love the butthurt. Keep them coming guys.

[hirobrotagonist]

Spoilers:

It's not sexist to think that it's incredibly unrealistic that Nadine could beat up Nate and Sam at the same time, I doubt even Ronda Rousey could take Nate on his own at his strength and fighting skill level; he has beaten up guys a lot bigger than Nadine in previous games even though he was outmatched. Nate is not an amateur fighter. She was a great character though.

[RedSoakedSponge]

i first read that as "sexiest focus tester" lmao

[ChickeyCantor]

" What if it's a girl"
Somehow makes me think it's heard in a voice of a robot from a post apocalyptic future.

[MagicBeanz]

No reason to act like that, the guy just sounds like a dick.

[CoNn3r_B]

Honestly I didn't like Nadine because she was quite a boring a character. She shows up, kicks your arse and I'm sat here like "ok this is interesting" and then she is then resigned to the background before showing up to fight you and sam before disappearing again to have a change of heart right at the end. I just felt that in the end she didn't offer much to the game.

[dragon_rocks]

If you think about it, there are no completely good men in Uncharted 4.

Nate - Career criminal, has been to jail several times, cheats Elena in Uncharted 1, lies to her in Uncharted 4.

Sully - Similar to Nate

Sam - Similar to Nate and lies to Nate to get his help.

Rafe - Obvious

Nate's boss - Ready to indulge in illegal things for his profit

Nate's Dad - As per what was told to us in story he was bad father and husband.

On the other hand almost all female characters are good and strongly portrayed:

Elena - Obvious

Nate's Mom - Strong willed, took good care of her kids, was good at what she did, no involvement in any questionable activities (based on whatever we are told).

Nate's Mom's boss - Strong independent woman, gives Nate and Sam their Mom's property back etc.

Nadine - At least from game's point of view she only started attacking Nate and co. after they stole what should legally belong to her employer/partner as they won it in the auction. So technically Nate and co. attacked them by stealing from them and she reacted like any mercenary would do. She didn't kill Nate and Sam (and Rafe) when she had the chance to in the end and left. Not completely a good person bu probably justified in her actions.

Cassie - Innocent kid

So yeah, the game is a masterpiece but it is one sided when comes to character morals. Just because the main male characters are likable does not justify the bad things they do or have done while almost all females are on the good side of the spectrum.

[DragonDDark]

Elena is kinda the same as nate... nadine is a bad person because she also works for rafe do I don't really understand your point.

[silvacrest]

Elena is not a treasure hunter so no she is not like nate, nadine is just trying to keep her mercernary business afloat who *SPOILERS* betray her anyway, she could have killed sam and nate which would have made her life easier but chose not to.

these characters are complex just like real humans, there are few clearly good or bad guys

[LoveSpuds]

Excellent post, I agree completely.

[zerocarnage]

Serious, no game is ever worth a perfect score as there is always something the publisher and dev could of done better, no one can get anything perfect. Maybe it deserves an high score but I do fail to see how any game can reach that perfect 10 and to be honest it's mostly come from players who reviewed this game.

Remember uncharted games can't do any wrong where a Sony and uncharted fan are concerned.

[DragonDDark]

How many times do people have to tell guys like you 10/10 doesn't mean the game is perfect.

[andrewsquall]

And then you have to think of the repercussions. I only checked out GTA V less than a year ago and on PS3 too. After GTA IV I wasn't too bothered with the series anymore. When I heard before release there was going to be 3 main characters, I was surprised. I wasn't surprised when not a single one of them was female. This would have made me grab the game at launch because it was something different.
With that out of the way, can you imagine if one of the characters was female in GTA V and had it being Trevor that was female? It easily would apply, I mean the bisexual thing too. I guarantee you there still would have been feminists going nuts over a character that was as unstable like Trevor in female form, even though it was actually a part written the exact same for a man.

[TWB]

I dont think that Trevor would have been a good character to switch to a female. He had quite a unique relationship with his mother IIRC, so if Trevor was a female, I would imagine that the social dynamics would be different too even if the mother was changed to a father.

[LoveSpuds]

Completely disingenuous comment I think. Female characters are relatively new to gaming, the majority of games still stick with male protagonists. I can only think of a handfull of games where you play a female character so of course, when one does turn up female games will likely hope to see an interesting, but positive characterisation.

Where Trevor is concerned, I think its fair to say he was a pretty unpleasant, extreme and OTT character. He was great fun to play with for sure, I found him utterly hilarious at times however, if he was the sole protagonist in that game I don't think I would have ever finished the game. It was the ability to play as two other very different characters that made Trever such a fun contrast.

If a womans sole representation in that game was a female Trevor then I think it would be fair to question why they only have that option if they want to play a female character.

[donwel]

And just like that *poof* my interest is gone.
Game developers should NOT be taking inspiration from youtube con-artists.
I'm done with naughty dog.

[TwoForce]

I understand your frustration. It's not just ND. Every developers can be attack by SJW. We should ignore them, but they will keep coming back.

[donwel]

I'm just tired of it mate, I play games to be entertained not to have propaganda waved in my face every time I start a game up.
As it is I very rarely play western games anyway, the only western dev I buy stuff from with any degree of regularity these days is Rockstar.

[TwoForce]

Rockstar can get attack by SJW too. I know you done with ND. But i'm still love thier game, so i will support ND. I don't care about SJW BS. All i care is I'm having fun. The reason i enjoy Uncharted 4 because the story and characters. Not gender BS.

[ZombieGamerMan]

Do as you please and trust me I dislike that bitch as much as the next guy here but you got to look at the material here, Uncharted 4 is still the same as every Uncharted game, there is no feminist propaganda being displayed like "All men are evil pigs" or "Women are paragon's of righteousness" Besides any game developer who knows anything about her knows she's off her rocker because she's tried to come into their world and tell them they are sexist pigs, what Neil said could just as well be taken as a challenge to shut her up and prove to her how wrong she is

[LoveSpuds]

Its your loss then squire, the FACT is, Naughty Dogs games offer the best characters and stories in this medium, its not like showing consideration to how women are portayed has had a negative impact on thier titles. Their female characters have been well fleshed out, enjoyable and diverse.

Are you really that threatened or upset by having the likes of Elle, Nadine, Tess, Elena or Chloe, all incredible, believable characters, in your games?

What is wrong with having women fairly represented in games, honestly, what? Even if these characters are brought about because of the views of extremist elements in the feminist camp, the games are still incredible with amazing characters.

[Bansai]

[SPOILERS]

Nadine vs Nate was cool, she kicked his ass in style, but Nadine vs both Drakes was just full of SJW propaganda and unbelieveable, not only she kicked their asses, they barely landed a punch on her, stuff of fantasy. Besides her character was pointless, she lost her entire workforce to both drakes, and then she just leaves? No harm no foul? Just gonna chill out of here? Please...

Also, why every single other treasure hunter in this story is female? Another BS. Mother, that old bat and of course future treasure hunter Drake junior.

[goldwyncq]

Except the second encounter with her ended with Nate punching her through the floor and Sam holding her at gunpoint.

[AnubisG]

Before she destroyed both of them without a problem. Yeah, Nate god lucky when she wasn't looking. but the SJW was strong with Nadine.

[Surt]

I don't think he landed that punch. He broke the floor tho.

[Surt]

Cause it has to pass the anita test for when she reviews this game.

[LoveSpuds]

Its a goddamn uncharted game, they are relatively easy going, high adventure games. The whole time Drake is getting beat he is wise cracking. I enjoyed the sequences immensely but then, I am not a teenager who is intimidated by the idea of a strong or independent woman.

In their last game, which is much darker and grounded, Joel brutally murders a black female character called Marlene, you still gonna tell me that ND are bending to the will of some perceived feminist agenda? Get real.

[Surt]

Pandering in 2016?! you don't say?! but Anita? Loss some points there ND. Listen if marvel can blantant pander with "ALL NEW. ALL Different" What makes anyone think ND is above it?

EDIT: And yes I was eye rolling at the NADINE bit. It obvious the feminist push in this game. Still wasn't overbearing, even at the end. Tho yes I smirked, "you too ND. You too. 2016 is your reasoning?"

[AnubisG]

It will be funny to look back at this a few years from now. If I was a game journalist interviewing ND in say 5-10 years I would bring this up for sure and I bet you anything that they would have an embarrassed look on their faces when talking about this.

[LoveSpuds]

Utter bollocks, these are games of high adventure, not gritty realism. If you want to see a gritty game where strong female characters get brutalised and killed take a look at Naughty Dogs last effort. It didnt go well for Tess or Marlene in Last of Us as I recall.

[goldwyncq]

This won't even be if an issue if Nadine was a guy. Just because a woman kicks ass doesn't mean that it's SJW pandering.

[AnubisG]

A woman kicking ass is one thing. A woman kicking the ass of a guy who eats entire armies for breakfast is a whole other thing. And let's not forget that she even kicked the asses of both Nate and his brother COMBINED. Now I'm all for strong woman but you don't see the SJW in this? the feminazi is pretty strong with this one.

[goldwyncq]

You just proved my point. If it was Rafe instead of Nadine, no one would even question it. She's the leader of a private military company for crying out loud. Not to mention the two brothers have been through hell just getting to the island. It wasn't a fair fight at all.

[AnubisG]

You just don't get it :D

[Surt]

It depends on perspective. Can Nadine kick ass? She is a trained merc, I'm sure she can. Yet, they make Nathan seem like he's not much of a hand to hand pro yet he's taken out how many mercs? Sam as well.

Your asking too much for the viewer not to smirk at the glaring fact that Nadine stands well against two seasoned fighters, BUT barely gets a scratch! Feminist talk about equality but can't let Nadine get punched in the face! She got tackled.. and smacked once by the bad guy for the women to yell "oh no he didn't!" But did she even get really hit? Compared to nathan or sam? Come on. Pandering was blatant.

[AnubisG]

I think he is a SJW. Can't reason with them.

[ZombieGamerMan]

Sam had her in a headlock ready to blow her brains out, I don't think feminist propaganda would be done with that especially when the woman in question is undeniably evil.

[LoveSpuds]

You wont get much sense out of these insecure males fella.

As I stated elsewhere, the Uncharted games have never been gritty or realistic, they are all about adventure. Nate is quipping all the way through his encounters with Nadine, its not like the beating Drake takes is particularly graphic or brutal, its cool, OTT martial arts movie stuff.

How these people can accuse ND of bowing to some feminust agenda is beyond me when their last game features a brutal, cold blooded murder of a female antagonist. The difference is context, Uncharted is a light hearted game, Last of Us is a mature, gritty and hardcore title.

[Surt]

"feminist agenda" Dude the director himself is feminist light. And he himself mentions Anita as inspiration! Marvel by no means is "gritty" either but no one can't tell me they ain't got a agenda, when they themselves have said they are pandering. LOL

Lets call a spade a spade now.

EDIT: UC4 was a great game don't get me wrong, but it doesn't remove parts in game that would have been followed by some one shouting "GIRRRL POWER!" lol

[AnubisG]

I have no problem with having female characters. Hell my all time favorite video game character is Lara Croft. What I DO have a problem with is the PC crowd and the SJW's of today forcing their bullshit down our throat. A female beating up a male is perfectly realistic, however Nadine or whatever her name was, that twig of a girl beating up Nate and than Nate and Sam combined is going overboard and just shows they really catered to the SJW's of today. I mean come on Nate eats entire armies for breakfast and than this twig of a girl comes along and kicks the shit out of him..... that's just no. It is going overboard. But If they want equality than I want female enemies too. I want to shoot woman in the face as well. How come Nadine had a whole army entirely of male soldiers? If they want equality than lets get that there but that's not what they want and you can see it in Uncharted 4 clearly. What they want is that females rule the world and they are stronger and more powerful than anyone or anything. I can understand the guy who was sent out by ND. Maybe he is fed up with feminazi SJW bullcrap and this did actually really bother him. I would understand why he acted the way he did and no wonder he was sent out if Neil Druckmann was truly influenced by Anita Sarkeesian, you know the idiot who said "everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is misogynist and you have to point it all out". It's just sad.

[Pullmywaffle]

More kotaku garbage. I was really hoping they would be shut down by now. Guess people are too damn stupid.

[Angerfist]

SJWism in Uncharted is the last we need but it is expected.
Poor black woman who beats the patriarchal white colonialist (check)

They should add a tablet in Drakes House with Jezebel.com as the homepage.

[Surt]

+1 or The mary sue site. LOL

[AnubisG]

Good thing you checked your privilege. :D

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

There are people saying that shes a trained mercenary, hence why she could beat them both...wasn't that guy from was it 2 or 3 (sorry, the stories are all really unmemorable) also like ex-military or some shit? Why wasn't he capable of beating Nathan?

[LoveSpuds]

Because...video games!!!!!

Honestly, you are talking video games here, not a documentary.

[frostypants]

HOLY CRAP, HOW ABOUT A SPOILER WARNING. What the hell?!

[spektical]

I didnt realize this was a problem. The nadine scene when you couldnt fight back was pretty lame. I get shes a mercenary but Drake had already established to be a big brawler himself. I was definitely caught off guard that you couldnt really do anything except take the punches, but IMO didn't really care.

Playing devils advocate here. Maybe the tester is more infuriated by the fact that nowadays, especially in the USA, you try to appease every demographic instead of just focusing on your own manifestation of your creation.

However; drake having a daughter or not in a video game is not my cup of tea to begin an argument. After all its just a game.

[PaleMoonDeath]

He must have the same grades as an Art student, these articles make me cringe.. even worse that they actually gain attention.

[Pancit_Canton]

I kinda like that Nathan Drake had a daughter. They can still continue on with the series that Cassie had a son 20 something years later and the son wants to be a treasure hunter just like his grandfather. This might set later on the futuristic settings on the year 2048.

[formanbradley]

This isn't newsworthy.
Question: Does me clicking on this just to comment give them a hit?

[Bass_fisherman]

honestly i expected to see Nadine joining your side by the end of game but she just disapears. I liked her character she was badass and the whole feminist thing is silly guys its not like the character was making puns on masculity or anything.

[LoveSpuds]

Spot on buddy, she was a great character. Its funny because the cut scenes allude to a grudging respect for Nate and Sully and as it develops she even concedes she is working with the wrong treasure hunter. Then when the fights happen they are just cool, martial arts sequences with Nathan underestimating her and joking the whole time he is getting tossed around. Its not like they are believable, brutal or graphic sequences.

Seems there are still a lot of immature males who enjoy gaming. Its funny because if they thought for one moment it was thier mum, sister or daughter who whas being discriminated against they wouldnt like it.

[scark92]

SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!

I prefer them having a Daughter, I do not see why it matters, in reality, you cannot choose. It also reminded me of Ellie.

Though well aware of the SWJ Anita side of Naughty Dog, I hope they do not force any agenda onto their game, it has been quite subtle so far imo, having strong female characters is fine. Having Nadine beat up Nate is not abnormal if she has more training in combat, though her fighting Nate and Sam was quite abnormal as both men do have skill and would have overpowered her, but the cinematic nature of Uncharted kinda hid it.

I am well aware of Naughty Dogs, or rather certain staffs interest in progressive culture, but please keep it to your own opinions, leave it out of your work. Do not be afraid to.. 'Trigger' us.

[jwillj2k4]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

[Nodoze]

Some liberal moron that has been brainwashed by the PC BS floating around nowadays.

[LoveSpuds]

What a load of utter nonsense.

Uncharted games are all about high adventure, they have never been grusome, brutal or gritty titles. Those fight sequences are completely inkeeping with the tone of the games, Nate is initially dismissive and even when he realises he is outmatched is wise cracking. Its not a realistic or brutal sequence, its fun, over the top and honestly, quite cool.

Thoughout the game Nadine clearly starts with a grudging respect for Nate and Sully and by the end even concedes she is working with the wrong treasure hunters. Not once did I feel that the events were jarring or forced, I absolutely loved the story and characters.

I cannot believe that people are accusing ND of bowing to some perceived feminist agenda especially when Marlene was was a similar antagonist in the Last of Us who was murdered in cold blood. Its all about the tone of the games and context.

Finally, this is a video game, an epic yarn, a tall tale. Are people honestly going to throw around gripes about realism in a tongue in cheek adventure game? Afterrall the crazy shit that Nate has seen and done in these games, really?!

[Surt]

Doesn't dismiss that the feminist push is there man. "tall tale" or not. I give em a pass cause it's only a slight push, and not damn shove.

[mastershredder]

Oh noes a focus tester! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Focus testers....they are like the Open House day Visitors with endless opinions on how games should be made (who try valiantly to out-gamer one another while they wait for the focus team to let them play whatever alpha/beta/mess is available for their feedback (even by quota)....That is enough to make any office cringe already.

[BlackLight]

say spoilers in the title next time

[exkalibur97]

#clickbait

[iliimaster]

holycrap tooooo many damn spoilers alrts gotta get outta here@! im still on chapter 10 oon uncharted 3