1up: Developers Concern Over EU 360 Sales

Amidst discussions of the rumoured price drop from Sony in the 1up studio, developers reveal that 360 software sales in Europe, outside the UK, are "tanking" to the extreme point that publishers and developers are considering to not even release games in Europe outside the UK, much like how Infinity Ward are rumoured to be releasing CoD4: Modern Warfare only on the PlayStation 3 in Asia.

The statement is at 01:44:45 in the podcast

[Meus Renaissance]

We all knew the UK was Microsoft's strongest ally in their European drive but I hadn't expected other countries to be so difficult that publishers are considering to stop releasing there.

Recently, Eidos of Europe, announced a $60mill loss in sales because of the cost of developing next-gen games. I sympathise with these publishers, they're getting creamed this generation.

I've said it several times previously over the past few days, I am seriously starting to doubt the success rate of Microsoft's Xbox 360 outside North America. ChartTrack UK, the credible analysts in the UK that monitor hardware and software sales and covered the PS3 launch, said that the sales between the two consoles in general in 2007 were comparable - which puts more doubt into exactly how strong the Xbox 360 is in the UK nevermind Europe as a whole. And with the rumoured price drop of Sony's machine, no bets will be taken to see who is more likely going to win this territory.

[Danny Dan]

I am actually right behind ya on this one. I always had this perception that the 360 was doing great in Europe (be it the rest of the world) and was owning in NA and well of course, doing sh** in Japan.

I read an article a couple of days ago that stated the sales number for the 360 and I believe it went something like this: 400k = Japan, 7M = NA, and the rest of the World = 1.4M... (I'm trying to find the article, I'll post as soon as I find)

I was shocked when I seen that 1.4M and to think that Europe was swarming with 360s, but I thought very wrong all this time. I too am worried about the 360 in the rest of the world (not just EU). I said this before and I'll say it again, the 360 really does need to diversify their titles a lot more in order to gain ground in other markets. I mean Gears Of War was great, Bioshock is great, and Halo 3 is great but damn, can you change up the great titles for me MS? Oh, and Mass Effect, "SHOOTER-rpg", but it is a 'little' bit diverse no?

I think MS is doing an AWESOME job in the Japanese market. AMAZING job actually, I believe they are doing much more in Japan then Sony is (despite sales and all that stuff). MS is trying so hard to get into that market they're willing to do anything for it. I just ain't seeing Sony really trying to 'c0ck-block' the sh** out of MS when it comes down to Japan, I'm only seeing the actual Japanese consumer blocking that company away, but for how long can do it for? Sony had a really crappy showing in TGS and I was highly dissapointed. I thought Sony was going to give a very strong showing for their native land but they didn't. With just Ninja Gaiden II, MS did a great job, and not to mention the SE titles they managed to bring way to their console.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

stop taking pot shots at Mass Effect, it is an RPG with shooter elements(Bioware is one of the best as far as western RPGs go), if you don't like then don't bother(its funny some people complain its a shooter and others its all talk no action). MS is not even really hyping it like it should. As for Japan, they need a lot more of crazy catchy stuff like IDOLM@STER and more good JRPGs. And of course better advertising and hardware reliability.

[Primetimebt]

I believe M$ pretty much failed in japan no matter hard they try. The original XBOX was lucky to sell 500 units a week mainly because it never had any games that catered to the Japan person. The other reason is they were quick to drop support of the XBOX. This only goes to show japanese the XBOX and M$ are very lost in the console business. I also believe Sony really doesn't have to bend over for its home land because the Wii can never do a japanesse favorite game genre "RPG's" like Sony can. Time will tell.

[Danny Dan]

Oh yea definitely. Totally agree. Don't get me wrong, I KNOW MS failed miserably over there and I would suggest for them to just bring some of their Japan resources into other world markets. They need to realize its a lost cost.

Basically what I was trying to say is that I give a lot of credit to MS for trying so hard, and anybody can see that.

[nasim]

the 399$ ps3 is coming up ....so MS you are finished.

the only battleground left for you is NA which will soon be won by PS3

[Gamespot-equals-EGM]

One more reason why the original Xbox failed in Japan...the hardware itself was freaking humougous. So much so, it was really, really ungainly. The original Xbox was the size of 2-3 VCR's (modern VCR's that is)...ridiculous.

Now, with the Xbox 360, they tried to make the console more normal size but the totally f-ed up the circulation. Lets face it, MS sucks at making hardware.

[agent864]

"People around the world hate America and anything American.

People around the world hate Microsoft and everything Microsoft's.

Couple those two together...and there you have it. There is absolutely nothing MS can do to win the hearts of those people. "

Apple is doing just fine in Japan. Windows and Office, while slightly threatened, are doing more than well. Granted Japan can be a tough nut to crack marketing wise, but its not due to hatred or xenophobia.

[predator]

i dont get it, how come we see reports saying the 360 outsells the ps3 in Europe apart from spain and pourtagal, 1up trying to get hits

[Meus Renaissance]

I honestly don't know how well the PS3 does outside the UK, but regarding the Xbox 360, John Davison who is respected says on the podcast that this is what he knows; developers considering not releasing their games outside the UK in Europe because the sales are so bad. That would mean the PS3 software sales would be doing no better..

But with the rumoured price drop, perhaps they are waiting to see how this changes their own sales before they do something similar?

[Laxe]

Well yes, the 360 IS outselling the PS3 in Europe (from what I saw of VGACharts) but by how much? If I recall (and this is just going by memory) it's only by 100k/month in certain countries.

I do think that either Microsoft's image, their games, or both are preventing them from getting the kind of sales figures seen in NA.

[barom]

vgchartz is a bunch of bullshitters. cmon they have trojans on their site wtf is up with that.

and I don't think there were any reports that X360 was doing better than PS3 in "Europe". ONLY in UK.

[notpill]

@2.1 u wrong, wont affect PS3 software, it's all about 360 and piracy. PS3 is still piracy free (today)

[MikeGdaGod]

i had 40+ games for 360 and about 2 of them were actual copies bought from the store.

my buddy found a way to play burnt games on it and still be able to go online so that was never a problem. using dvds is another mistake MS made with this system, not just because of disk space, but it's way too easy to hack the system. i, of course, love it because i only pay $10 bucks for games and my cousin loves it cus now he has alot of games and doesn't have to spend his limited funds and can get every game he wants.

there are so many people with dvd burners and hardly no one with bluray burners, it really will start to hurt the system.

@ Close_Second

LOL, you think i give a f*ck what you call me? if MS wants leave the backdoor open, ima walk right through. they do it with everything (PCs, OS, consoles....)

dude i'm not gonna pay next-gen money for last-gen tech. sony used bluray which was a great call. i could care less if MS bricks the console cause we know how to unbrick it, plus i don't even have it anymore my cousin does.

yea i prirate games and movies. ya got me, ima theif. i'll take ya b!tch too so you better watch out. then you'll be REALLY mad! LOL

all that name calling just just shows how much of a p*ssy you are. internet tough guy huh? you let what i do with a system i bought with my money get you that upset and i'm the loser??? LOL

that was funny

EDIT: *sigh*

ok ima make this very short and simple for ya:

#1
$60 360 games come on dvds. dvd = last-gen
$60 PS3 games come on bluray. bluray = next-gen

#2
dvd burners have been around way longer than bluray burners therefor it will always be cheaper to burn dvds. eventually it will be possible to burn PS3 games but they will never be as cheap or as easy to burn as 360 games.

#3
Halo playing in 640p isn't very next-gen to me

#4 (my favorite)
yes, your calculator can crunch numbers. but it can't do 2 trillion calculations per second. and neither can the 360 ;)

have a nice day

[Close_Second]

Yeah, its Microsoft's fault your a lowlife thief. You f**king loser - I can't wait until Microsoft does brick everyones 360 who gets it modded to play pirate games.

Don't care what excuse you think justifies your habbits, you're just a f**king thief.

@Scottie#2.
What do you mean not paying next-gen money for last-gen tech. If the 360 was the same price as a PS3 then I'd agree but it is well priced considering the technology it uses. Games are also less expensive than on the PS3 so your argument is bollocks.

Oh yeah, final point - the fact that there are few Blu-Ray burners on the market so far is that its still new tech. It was the same story with DVD when it first is the scene. Give it 2-3 years and Blu-Ray burners will become common...which should keep the pirate community happy.

By the way, what was last gen about Gears of War, BioShock and Halo 3? Take the Blu-Ray out of the PS3 and you aint got much left to pay next gen prices for. Sure the Cell can crunch numbers but so can my calculator.

@Scottie#3

#1. Wow, you did make it simple. Basically by putting games on DVD they can't be considered next-gen games. Kind of like buying a brand new car and driving it on the same road...well, how can it be the latest model car if it uses the same road as previous models?!?

#2. I don't pirate so couldn't care less how much you save through your dishonesty. A stupid point though really, its cheaper to take those types of drugs so I'll always get my high that way. Point is here – don’t do drugs but I get the feeling any sort of moral debate is wasted on you anyway.

#3. Say what you like, Halo 3 is a next-gen experience - a fantastic game that most next-gen owners will still be playing for many years. Next gen does not just mean 1080p, oh but wait, being a PS3 owner you brought into that whole 4D thing…

#4. True, but at least my calculator does not turn me into an obnoxious git.

[Itachi]

the console breaks all the time

and the games are 640p

nuff said

[Xbox is the BEST]

this explains why the PS2 consoles to games ratio is uneven. Europeans don't game hard as Americans. I mean 50% of PS2 sales were from Europe and we have more consoles sold that games in the PS2 generation.

[NeonSkull]

we game hard in europe we game real hard. We just like more variety that most red neck halo luvin americans.

[Xbox is the BEST]

explain why PS2 consoles out numbered the games sold. Maybe you game hard. Variety well there is games out/coming out ooh wait if you own a PS3 them I feel your pain.

[NeonSkull]

can you give proof that console sold>software sold.

[aaquib2]

Failing in Europe...PS3 murdering it in sales
Failing in Japan...Gameboy colour murdering it in sales
Doing ok in US...Americans are idiots who buy 1 thing...guns

[NeonSkull]

this is why you have one bubble, you are an idiot.

[Armyless]

what the hell is wrong with you? nobody is that stupid by accident.

[HeavyweightInTheGame]

Some people assume its selling well and others assume its not. I am going to go with the opinion that it sells well in EU due to the fact that the majority of sales figures show that it's doing rather well in EU outside of the UK except for a few countries. I don't know what to believe anymore. If you think it sells well, think that. If not, think that. These types of articles don't mean much to me anymore.

[NextGen24Gamer]

This is all speculation and internet drama....Fanboys love this kind of stuff. LOL.

It was widely reported at TGS that MS claimed that there are over 12 million consoles in peoples homes as they spoke. 7 million in the USA and 500k in Japan...and over 4.5 million in the rest of the world. Mainly Europe.

So while sony fanboys love to speculate and bash the xbox 360 any chance they get. The fact remains that their are more xbox 360's in European homes than Ps3's. Fact. If you disagree...Please show links to support your wild claims.

Even as far off as VG charts is every month....that site even supports the xbox 360 having a much bigger install base in Europe than the ps3.

What developers love even more is the fact that for every xbox 360 sold...there are 6.8 games sold. Compared to the Wii and Ps3 right at the 1.5 games sold per console.

[Mu5afir]

It's a known fact that Microsoft only shipped 11.6 million consoles, they can't sell more consoles then shipped.

[Meus Renaissance]

The software attachment ratio you quoted is North American, not Global.

This claim comes from 1up, and you'll have to go a distance to imply they are PS3 fanboys. I didn't state it as a rumour because John Davidson is a respected contributor to the podcast who is known to have connections to other companies, and this is what he has heard. Discussions that some publishers are considering not releasing their games in all European countries and it doesn't seem far fetched considering that sales are dependant on country by country instead of territories in general.

Having said that, its important to realise that he has "heard" discussions are taking place, and therefore we will see little evidence to support such a thing. This means the most we can take from this is try to rationalise the suggestion and make our own intelligent conclusions or opinions based on it...people can bring forth disagreements and agreements with this, there is no right or wrong

[MikeGdaGod]

and you believe that????

this is what you really should be thinking about. when i bought my 360, i got the best buy extended warranty with it. when it broke each time i took it back to best buy and they gave me a new system right off the show floor. i'm sure to them that counts as a sale even though i spent no money on the 2 extra consoles.

how many times do you think that exact situation has happened? i'm betting alot. those sales numbers for the 360 are very misleading. and of course they've only shipped about 11.5mil so that 12 you talk about is plain bs. you may also want to read my comment at 2.5 about that attach rate you love to spew out in every post.

EliteGamer..........ha!

[Taker_129]

There was a report not to long ago that stated microsoft had not even sold 9 million of those 360s yet so now they magically jump to 12 million when they only shipped 11.2 million.

[JACKRABBIT]

Excuse you there is no need to result to naming calling here.

[TheMART]

This is pretty much bullsh!t. The 360 outsold the PS3 up till July even in Europe and at least sold as much as the PS3.

After its recent pricedrop and the introduction of the Elite, sales went up 260% in UK.

If the 360 is in trouble in Europe, the PS3 is also. Can say about my country, The Netherlands, that I know 2 people that play a PS3 (one @ work/makes stuff for consoles and one got it for free for reviewing) and I hear many people with a 360

@ Meus (below)

Ah ok I mixed it up with a too fast reaction. Software then. At the moment, most games are only in English/German/France/Spanish/ Italian already. If they only keep the largests ones, for example English, it is no problem for me. In The Netherlands we already only play English games (besides some that like Fifa in Dutch... but I prefer English always).

Thus: that wouldn't be a too large problem for me at least. But French people are less allright with English, as are Spanish/Italian gamers.

[Meus Renaissance]

It's talking about software. Not hardware.

Because the 360 has the largest installbase, alot of developers and publishers are relying on getting returns on their multimillion dollar investments and the 360 is the best bet to them. However, in some countries there seems to be little point in releasing the games - so they'd save money on releasing it only in countries they know the 360 software sales are high; the UK.

The reason why it doesn't involve the PS3 (yet) that these publishers don't really expect much from sales-wise in that regard, that console is not competing from a price point. When the price drops, they'll assess their PS3 games in this way and make decisions.

P.S. I don't know why you keep quoting the 260% sales increase. I'm sure you know that was the week after the price drop in the UK, and the 260% increase was only in comparison with the week prior the price being cut. I'm sure a similar figure can be found in relation to the PS3 when it had its price cut in North America

[DaEnforcer]

The Europeans have a brain, no intelligent person buys a console of such ridiculous quality like the 3FixMe. Face it yanks, a product with a hardware flaw which can cause failures shouldn't be even sold.

[JACKRABBIT]

Again there is no need for insults. There is no need what's so ever to start bashing Americans.Thank you

[agent864]

PS3 - processor and graphics : IBM and Nvidia : US
Wii - processor and graphics : IBM and ATi : US
Xbox360 : processor and graphics : IBM and ATi : US

All of them : assembled in China

The Cell is stamped out in fishkill, NY as well as a plant in Japan.

[Proxy]

Apparently concern is now a verb. But shouldn't the title then be "developers concerning over eu sales"?

;)

[Meus Renaissance]

You're wrong lol. "Developers concerning over EU" is grammatically wrong, whereas "Developer(s) concern over EU" is correct.

Alteast I think so..

[BIadestarX]

Asia... i'll give them that... if they think they can make their money only selling their games on the PS3 in Asia.... then do that... business is business... (kind of interesting how they mentioned COD 4.. which is an FTP... which it's not the best cup of tea for asians).
Do I live in Asia? Nope... do I care that COD4 is not released in Asia? Can developers survive and make money by releasing their games in the US, UK, Australia, Canada and many other countries where the xbox 360 is doing great? Yes they can... Sadly for Sony Americans and other western countries are willing to give a non Asian console a chance and arent bias... making it profitable for developers that make games that western like.. only thing I care and many xbox 360 owners care. a Proven by Halo 3 games can make a ton of money on the xbox 360 even if not successful in Japan or Asia. It can take 10-20 years for Microsoft to successfuly convince the asian market but not to the western countries as the xbox 360 proved. From now on the xbox brand can only get better in the US and other countries. Let Sony have their market share in those countries... they also need to eat too. I don't think developers making games like Mass Effect, COD4, Madden, and western taste game... see Asia as their primary market....
Here is how I see it... This generation and probably the next will be fracture by regions.... pretty much how it was before... Many games would never be released in the US... but now that developers are not only Japanese... we will also see games that are never going to see the light in Japan. I don't think it will be possible for the PS3 to reach the xbox 360 installbase anymore in the US.. microsoft home town... since they know how to market and People are not resistant or bias... so it comes down to... for western countries.. if you want to make money you must make the game on the xbox 360.. for Asian countries.. you want to make money then the wii or the PS3... funny though... more copies of games and consoles are sold in the western countries...

[Meus Renaissance]

From what I understood of your comment, it sounds like your implying that Microsoft already has the majority of the market secured and that Sony are the ones who need to do convincing?

I think Sony, in comparison to Microsoft atleast, own Asia and the vast majority of Europe if not all of it. They also are massively popular in North America - so is Microsoft so if anything, Sony has the larger market share and its Microsoft that needs to win more countries/territories; Europe and Asia, than Sony does.

P.S. The COD4 thing, although Asia doesnt like FPS, Infinity Ward must feel that if the game is going to sell, it's going to sell on the PS3 there so they might aswell release it.

[MikeGdaGod]

since the games are on bluray, they can just add the extra audio on the disk and they don't have to worry about making a disk just for the asian market. with bluray its just one disk for worldwide use.

[Taker_129]

That's one of the many things about sony is they have a very Diverse group of games that cater to other countries and not just NA and Japan. And that is why the 360 will not win this gen.

[amilimos]

You're quite angry about this,Please don't hate on asians because they refuse to accept the 360. But i'm sure ur well aware that the 360 has, in my opinion, too many fps's. And its best "exclusives" are mostly its fps's or similar shooters u know ... such as the "well advertised & marketed" Halo 3, Bioshock, Gears of wars and the coming soon Mass Effect.Dont get me wrong im not a 360 hater or anything and i agree these are all fantastic titles but i think their AAA lineup is not really diverse ... and that may be the reason why some people don't accept it.

[agent864]

I have to restate that Japan/Asia doesn't hate or have bias against the US or its products. That is not the reason why the 360 is not faring well in Japan. Microsoft made some missteps in their marketing / advertising, the XBOX 1 failed due to its size / games, so there isn't the brand awareness / loyalty. Apple has succeeded in consumer electronics of all things.

read this -- educate yourself

http://www.iproceed.com/blo...

[agent864]

Do not ever launch a product in Japan if you think you have even a 1% chance of product problems.

There's 33 to 50 reasons right there why 360 isn't big in japan.

[MarioFromTexas]

Could it be the hardware? Outside the hardcore fans, do you really beleave casual consumers want to buy a hardware with known problems? When you go buy a HDTV, would you buy a tv with a 33 percent failure rate? It's the same thing for most consumers, whether they are buying a washer, dryer, microwave or a car. People want quality and want to beleave they got a great deal, which you can't say that about the 360. I know the whole game arguement you xbots like to point out and that 70 percent of gamers don't even have an HDTV....this is what I have to say about that, get a PS2 then, biggest library and greatest console ever. You want the greatest games get a PS2, if you want the latest tech then get a PS3...Nobody wants to deal with hardware failure and hardware revisions every 3 months. The difference between the PS3 SKU's is the harddrive, the difference between the 360 SKU's is you got phuck and now you have to upgrade

[gnothe1]

this is crazy!! every week theres something different!! PS3 sold more, no the 360 sold more. where are these people getting there facts from!! one thing, is there anyone on this site that wants to dispute that the 360 sells MORE software than the Ps3 an the Wii. other than the Wii, the 360 sells MORE hardware on a regular basis than the Ps3, theres weeks where the PS3 sales spike a take the lead over the 360, but then the 360 starts to overtake again!! the 360 has lead sales more weeks this year than the PS3, but yet the 360 is the one in trouble!! go figure!!

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

One site may be more for the PS3 and one may be more for the 360 or Wii so if that news comunity is more 360 based they will more than likley report pro 360 news even while trying/claiming to be unbiased. N4G is ran by us so we search and scour the net for news and articles or just make them up ourselves so it's not uncommen to see PS3 is dead or 360 is dead or Wii is a fluke. Its also not uncommen to see made up storys or just plain "Natonal Enquirer style" made up lies and propoganda ie what Sony fanboys like to do. All in all it's up to the reader to make their own desision about the console war and look past BS and see the truth.

[TheExecutive]

Like I have been saying, the 360 will sell about 24 million like their first console because they cant reach a larger user base. They have unsuccessfully tried to expand it this generation and this failure is painfully obvious. If you arent a 20-30 something english speaking male the 360 doesnt entice you.

[Shadow Flare]

Xbox 360 is an absolute disaster in Japan

360 is tanking in Europe

UK 360 and PS3 sales have been neck and neck

A considerably cheaper 40gb PS3 is about to hit market (its how sony thinks they will reach 11 million units sold this year)

The actual game of Halo 3 is disapointing

360 has already hit its peak graphically

360 hardware problems are still wide-spread (Halo 3)

360 has only 1 title (Mass Effect) to withstand Sonys onslaught of multiple AAA titles and proven system sellers this year and 2008

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

And then you woke and realised what you should already know is that all that was a dream and the harcore reality comes crashing down on you again and again. If us Xbots can see the failures of the 360 and live with it, why is it you Droids just can never see yours even when Sony or the whole world points them ut to you? There is 4 large gaming markets around the world US, UK, EU and Japan out of all these 4 wich buys the most gaming merchandise and which console is not selling in the most popular one? I dare you to answer these questions but you probably won't will you?

LOL I noticed you mentioned 2008 (wait ther is more), what about NOW? and if I'm mistaken MS hasn't revieled much about 08 do to their campain to consentrate on 07. So what are you going to say when the titles come rolling in for the Xbox in 08, wait till 09? couldn't resist I'm an Xbot

[GrooveChampion]

I think his point was that from here til' 08 it's looking slim for 360 exclusives. With Uncharted and R&C coming out as the heavy hitters (so it seems) and a number of smaller titles to move the hype train along (EOJ, SOCOM, Wipeout(this year?), Folklore, HSG, Haze, hopefully UTIII, and various other PSN/PSEye games to come) that'll all add up to something more impressive than the 360 lineup.

Granted, the 360 still has PGR4, Mass Effect, Naruto, and Viva Pinata: Party Animals all to come. But I think that helps his point more than I intended it to.

At least there will be a decent number of multiplatform games, so there's always the chance that they'll perform better on 360 so we'll have something to argue.

[aiphanes]

Naruto, and Viva Pinata: Party Animals are all weak game.

GT5 prologue will kill PGR4 in sales...

All the Xbox 360 really has is Halo 3....and the Halo 3 hype is dying down now....640p native graphics...please....

[NextGen24Gamer]

They have still been shipping consoles since. That was June folks....we are now on the eve of October. 4 months. Thats why they say there are over 12 million consoles in peoples homes. Because they have been shipping more consoles since the 11.6 million 4 months ago.

Walmart, Gamestop, Best Buy...they order more consoles when their stock runs out. If there weren't 11.6 million sold to this day. Ms would not still be shipping consoles.

Some of you sony fanboys are really clue less. You want so hard to believe that the xbox 360 hasn't sold over 12 million consoles. When MS releases its next quarterly report....they will have shipped just short of 14 million consoles due to the Halo 3 release and better hardware.

And by the end of the year there will be 18 million xbox 360s shipped. Which will be all bought up by sometime in January.

Some of you must be kids...because you really act like you have no clue how the industry works.

So now you know why MS say there are over 12 million consoles in people homes. They said it at TGS.

A. They know this because they shipped 11.6 million consoles by May/June.

B. They know because retailers have been ordering more consoles since then.

C. They know because they have shipped a little over 2 million consoles this last quarter.

D. So they don't know exactly how many have sold...but they know they have sold the 11.6 and they have shipped a few million on top of that. Which then gives them the right to say...."we have over 12 million consoles in peoples homes".

Get it? Got it? Good. Now we shouldn't have this discussion again right? VG charts and Nextgenwars just try to basically collect what ever data they can....but its far from accurate.

[TheExecutive]

umm, so what if there are 12 million sold, the point is that its only 6 million consoles a year. Thats not flattering, or groundbreaking. It's only ok, if that.

[Meus Renaissance]

June = 11.6m shipped (estimating around 10m sold). 360 has averaged around 270K sales a month since then. 270 x 4 = 1.8million. 11.8million sold, so you were right. The PS3, with a new price drop, will sell atleast 7million in total this 2007, which in its first year is already doing better than the 360 by comparison. My apologies, but this is beside the point of the article anyway.

We're talking about software sales in Europe. You're talking about software/hardware sales in North America which is great.

Do you see the confusion here? We're not talking about the same thing.

[TheMART]

@ The exec

So what about close to 5 mln. PS3's world wide in a year sold? With a brand name and installed base of 100+ PS2 users?

That sounds even worse then 6 mln. for a console that was in 2nd place last gen, doesn't it?

[Meus Renaissance]

Firstly the year isn't done yet and you're ignoring how well a a cheaper PS3 would sell. But lets say, that no more PS3's are sold until 2008 meaning the total sales of this year would be around 5million.

That's one million less (Xbox 360 averaging 6mill a year sold) than the cheaper Xbox 360 that was already out for a year prior, with a strong AAA games etc. So although it may not be good news for Sony, it doesn't say much about the 360's pulling power to consumers if the sales are comparable to a console twice as expensive in most regions.

[vasilisk]

Don't get confused.
The last hardware numbers from europe were following x360's price drop and just before Halo3. Before that M$ was dead in europe except UK, which outsold ps3 and covering the losses from other countries. This is also evident from fifa 08 sales which the ps3 version is outselling the x360 version even in uk.

And for everyone that thinks that M$ is doing great just try to answer this:

If M$ thinks that it's console is doing well then why, why, WHY have a price just before the Halo3 launch, which is the console's flagship. It doesn't make any sense. Halo is supposed to move consoles regardless of price. Why reduce the price if you are not in a tight spot? They might as well kept the price that they had and lower it 1 month or so after the Halo3 launch.
I think M$ is in a tight spot and they already know it. x360 didn't sell well in the first year despite the fact that it was the one and only next gen console out there and wii has already surpassed them in sales. 5 or 6 million consoles difference is not enough, just a good holiday season from sony and it's gone. It's doing well only in NA and now in europe AFTER the price cut. Before the price cut they were outsold everywhere exept NA and UK, despite that PS3 had a higher price tag. They know that if PS3 has a major price cut (40gb model??-don't forget they know this stuff long before we do) that they wouldn't stand a chance. So they wanted to move as many consoles they could as fast as they could BEFORE sony anounces the 40gb model and sweep the market away
So I'm asking again. Why in hell did they cut the price BEFORE Halo3 launch if they were not in a very tight spot???

[Vip3r]

"That sounds even worse then 6 mln. for a console that was in 2nd place last gen, doesn't it?"

So let me get this straight. To you the 360 is beating the PS3 because of:

1. It's price
2. Install base
3. Amount of games

So what makes you think that the PS2 came second last gen when it was cheaper, had more game and a far far larger install base?

You sir, need to take that certain part of Microsoft out of ones rectum.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

How many has Sony sold compaired to the 360? the 360 sold almost 10 mill it's first year the PS3 is on it's way to 5. How is Sony ever going to catch up when sales drop each month "130,600" units droped last month while the 360 sales increased that ever widening lead. http://arstechnica.com/news... I realy would love to see how it is you Droids see somthing that actualy decreases each month as a "Success" over somthing that increases each month.

[mikeslemonade]

So far there's no official numbers about Europe because they release the numbers yearly, John Davidson is the resident European and he always says what he truly believes. This basically confirms that 360 will be third in this generation. You can't have success only selling to North America .

[Clinton514]

And I'm not talking about VGChartz BS stats. Everyone in the industry will tell you the same thing. Europe is essential to who comes out on top.

You clowns can downplay all you want since you have absolutely no knowledge of what goes on outside of your country.

ps. Notice how I didn't mention any other console, why? Because this is about XBOX 360 in EUROPE under performing. So who can spin me a nice reply. theMart? LOL!

[GrooveChampion]

Do you think the 360 can make fans out of the European market? Headstart and FPS's aside, seriously, knowing that Europe is pretty much Sonyland and knowing that the PS2 still stands strong in most countries there, can the 360 prevail?

I don't know if it's possible, but I can't see it happening on any timetable shorter than 5 years. They have to undo all the work Sony has done, and then convince people that they're better than Sony is/was, all without losing to either Sony or Nintendo. That being said, if they can take 08 and somehow wrestle with Sony for mindshare while MGS and FF are making the rounds, they might have a chance. Considering how fast most games come and go, it's going to be very interesting to see the lingering effects of Halo 3 in all three major markets, as well as the response that MS gets during the holidays.

[mandrake]

Let's try to clear some of the lingering misunderstanding from the UK sales numbers. A cursory glance at total sales will not reveal the most important things that the numbers have to say. While it is true that year-to-date sales for 360 and PS3 are comparable for 2007 (2006 and earlier were not included) the total numbers are not as important as where they apear to be trending statistically. The PS3 numbers included the big sales bump at the initial release of the console. This is to be expected from the excitement that accompanies the release of any new product. In the usual course of things, pent-up demand by early adopters boosts sales in the first few weeks, but then settle down to steadier long term trends to give a more realistic picture of how well the console is actually doing in the market. The 360 enjoyed a similar surge when it first came out the previous year, but supply problems dampened its numbers a bit. In the PS3's case, the initial surge petered out after just six weeks, and ever since its sales have been trending downwards. The 360 on the other hand has enjoyed steady or even increasing sales in its second year. These sales trends are what statisticians use to extrapolate performance into the future, and based on current sales trends, the numbers in the UK are much less favorable to the PS3 than the 360. If these trends continue, the 360's lead in the UK will actually increase over time.

I don't really care who leads or who wins, but I get really annoyed when people toss figures around without properly thinking about them.

There is another issue about the Asia market that the podcasts seems to ignore. Software piracy is more rampant in that market than any other. Only the Japanese and South Korean markets support legitimate sales that can offset significant losses due to piracy, so if you lose big in Japan there isn't much left in the rest of the Asian market to make up for it.

[NextGen24Gamer]

If you aren't talking about VG charts bs stats....what stats are you refferring to? LOL....

Where do you get your stats that the xbox 360 is underpeforming in Europe. Because I respectfully disagree with you.

I believe the xbox 360 is doing fabuous in Europe. They are leading in TOTAL console sales over its competitors...and From Microsofts numbers....which is as official as it gets....there are just about 4 million xbox 360's sold in Europe. And that was as of E3 a few months ago.

Its common knowledge that the USA has the biggest market for Games. Next is Europe...and 3rd is Japan.

Sure the xbox 360 isn't doing as well as they would like in Japan...but its doing better than is previous effort in Japan...and thats all you can ask for right? Improvement.

So while you make these wild claims...Like....MS needs to step it up in Europe.....I ask you to provide me with FACTS....Not opinions....On why you make that statement....Which from everything I have read up on proves your statement to be false.
Thanks in advance buddy.

[Clinton514]

It's cool that you disagree. This is the opinion of myself and industry professionals. You've heard it for yourself in the podcast.

You or me "believing" doesn't really equal factual evidence or what will happen in the future.

It's my opinion that MS NEEDS TO STEP IT UP in Europe based on what I've heard from many others. Someone else mentioned that sales have been pretty stable for all major consoles so what happens this holiday season and how unit sales look after the holiday rush will give a slightly clearer picture to what is happening.

ps. "USA" isn't a game region. It's called NORTH AMERICA. Europe is wide open and MS hasn't performed as well as they have in the North American market.

Peace :)

[Absinthetic]

http://roughlydrafted.com/R...

[NextGen24Gamer]

Well for every one industry professional that you believe...I can pull up 5 industry officials that counter what you believe.

SO really it comes down for YOU.....Its what you choose to belive. You choose to believe a guy on a podcast and some sony execs when they say MS is in trouble in Europe.

I choose to believe MOST devlopers and MOST industry officials when they say MS is doing Great in Europe. Much better than its competitors...and thats all that matters....Beat the competition.

Now in regards to North American sales vs Europe sales....Common sense and years of conosole releases tells everyone that the North American market is twice as big as Europes when it comes to Dollars being made. For every console. And Japan is last.

So with that said...its common sense that if the xbox 360 has sold 7 million in the USA...and 3.5 million in Europe and over 1.5 million in the other parts of the world....That is right on target to market size. Get a clue my friend. LOL...

[Clinton514]

You murdered your whole argument with that crazy response.

It's not a matter of choosing what to believe. It's just using logic with the info that is presented to you. Glass empty half full, but to me it's more clear cut that it's a case of under performance.

I suggest you read that link the person above posted. Stay happen in whatever world you choose to live in. I'm out.

[TheMART]

@ Daenforcedude

"The Europeans have a brain, no intelligent person buys a console of such ridiculous quality like the 3FixMe. Face it yanks, a product with a hardware flaw which can cause failures shouldn't be even sold. "

So what about all that PS2's that got burned out lasers?

No games/DVD's playing anymore?

Did that hurt the PS2 of becoming nr. 1?

EDIT @ Sherlock below (that took a pretty long time) did you read more? I live in 360 city. All true all facts dudes

[Mario18]

http://www.xboxkings.com/in...

32 year old fanboy LMFAO!

[unlimited]

The 360s is the most defective system period in all the generation of gaming!! Let me see a simple update will bricked it, Disk reading errors, over heating problems, freezing, Hard drive problems, Disk Scratching, the system wont turn on, and playing any game will kill any 360s out there. The PS2 i have no problems with it.. i still have mines for 5 years..

There is thousands to thousand of dead xbox360s..I won't be suprised that their is 1 million defective or more waiting jusst to crap out..

[Ghoul]

@20.1

hahaha that cant be mart youre really 32 ??
your hardly acting anything older then 14, hell even when i was 14 i wasnt that shortminded as you are with you constant ps3 bashing and 360 praising. Jeez please go apply for a Microsoft Promoter position, then you can jump around Tokyo in MAsterchief suit and promote your new mesiah.

[chrno]

lol! The Mart is 32 years old, that's funniest thing that I found out today, not the news.

[tk]

It is a bit too early to say. Consoles sold is not software sold.
The PS3 with BluRay and Wii with its own format prevents software copying. The DVD format gets copied much easier - so maybe that is the reason for the concerns. Cheap gray imports, copied disks - can kill the format. It is sad if copying can cause less development... because it will only be a matter of time before it spreads to other platforms.

Could be that the XB360 replacement policy is not so good in Europe as in the US. That could also lead to less software sales. BluRay was a smart move on Sony's part - it prevents pirating more.

[Synex]

Just go get laid dude; it helps with these things. It will also take your mind off of how bad the 360 is doing.

[TheExodus]

This constant tug of war back & forth is a big red flag being raised by the industry, because neither 360 nor PS3 are being taken up by consumers in sufficient levels to make development for either console a fiscally responsible venture. Imagine spending 2 years & $20 million dollar developing a game for the PS3 only to come to market & find that market effectively cut in half. Develop for 360 & lose Europe or develop for PS3 & lose North America. What do you do when you need both to turn a profit?

Frankly I think it's time for Nintendo to introduce an N64 style controller for the Wii along with a new marketing push, "You Choose, Wii Play."

[NextGen24Gamer]

No its not 6 million consoles sold a year...LOL....Did you forget that the year isn't up? LOL>...did you forget that last Christmas the xbox 360 sold over 2 million consoles while the ps3 and Wii were launching?

MS will have shipped just under 18 million consoles by years end. SO we can safely assume that there will be 17 plus million consoles sold by the end of the year. Thats 9 to 8 million consoles sold a year. Not 6 million. LOL....Your fanboy views are sad buddy. If they year ends now. then the ps3 only sold 4 million in a year. WOW....I assume the ps3 will sell 6 million consoles by the end of 2007. Meanwhile the xbox 360 will maintain its 8 to 10 million console lead. I'm just going off of the rate that we have seen thusfar. Things can always change. We will see.

[Meus Renaissance]

If the Xbox 360 averages around 270K a month, and its October now and sold 12million, how can it sell another ~6million or so before the year? Assuming you mean calendar year, not fiscal year (March 2008), it will sell a further ~1million consoles or so by the end of this calendar year, totalling ~13million consoles in 2 years. That's an average of ~6.5m a year.

But if you meant fiscal year, then it should sell almost 2million consoles totalling it to around ~14million consoles.

However way you look at it, if you compare the total hardware sales between the two consoles, and take into consideration the price difference, then its not really impressive on the side of Microsoft. It should have sold more with the games and price..

But what makes you think it will 4million consoles extra from now till the end of the year?

[TheMART]

@ Meus

Really you need to get your numbers straight. The 360 sold between 200k and 300k in North America alone about every month, besides a few months this year. World wide it sold in april/may/june of this year 400k a month world wide, when the PS3 sold 200k world wide a month.

July the PS3 sales peaked with the pricedrop and directly went back to selling less after some fanboys that waited for a slightly lower price has bought the console. The mass still ain't buying @ 500 dollars.

360 sold over 2 million consoles last Christmas. I bet with Halo 3, Mass Effect, Bioshock and other AAA it sell more then that this Christmas.

I bet it'll sell 3 million 360's this Christmas. Leaves 1 million in the rest of the time. Which Halo 3 already contributes to at this moment. What Bioshock made sales the whole last month. Think you get it, your 270k is about only USA monthly sales now. World wide the 360 sells, much, much more.

"Firstly the year isn't done yet and you're ignoring how well a a cheaper PS3 would sell. But lets say, that no more PS3's are sold until 2008 meaning the total sales of this year would be around 5million."

Wrong. It's not untill 2008. It launched about half November 2006. Half November 2007 is close... 1.5 month to go with 200 to 400k max sales world wide for the PS3. I bet it'll be 500k max sold in 1.5 month. Which makes... 5 mln. sold in a year.

PS3 cheaper? The 360 gets cheaper also. Doesn't matter. 500 or 400 euro/dollar. Mass buys around 200 to 250 Euro/Dollar. Closer to the 360's price.

"That's one million less (Xbox 360 averaging 6mill a year sold) than the cheaper Xbox 360 that was already out for a year prior, with a strong AAA games etc. So although it may not be good news for Sony, it doesn't say much about the 360's pulling power to consumers if the sales are comparable to a console twice as expensive in most regions. "

Wrong again. It doesn't matter if you compare the first year of the 360 to the first year of the PS3. You have to compare what it does right here, right now. If the 360 keeps outselling the PS3 right here, right now, the already 8 million larger userbase of the 360 keeps growing, the PS3 ain't catching up. You know what that means right? Last gen the PS2 had this advantage: more 3rd party exclusives because of the high software sales.

360: 6.3 attach rate on games
PS3: 3.5 attach rate on games average

Sony has a great brandname and 100+ PS2 owners out there. I know many former PS2 gamers that bought a 360 and they don't see any reason to get a PS3.

EDIT:

@ The exec (below)

"lol I am no fanboy..."

Seen your only PS3 positive and 360 negative reactions, you are in some kind of form.

"The 360 is not selling a million consoles a month. There is no way possible for the 360 to sell 17 million consoles by years end (dec.31st). No way."

Let's see. Last year only Christmas there were 2.1 million 360's sold. That sales were driven by Gears of War mostly. In the months before, it sold about 700k in November and 500k in October. All that added, makes 3.3 million 360's sold in three months time.

This year, we got Bioshock in August, Halo 3 in September, already making sales of 360 in September/August driving much higher then last years sales. Plus: 360 price drop and Elite in Europe launched.

Combine that with Cristmas, Mass Effect and all those other games that hits the 360 in combination with the already AAA games on 360 (exclusive ones, the PS3 only has one AAA and multiplatform which is Oblivion).

If last year did 3.3 million in the last three months, I bet the 360 does at least 4 million the last 3 months this year PLUS August/September insane high sales with Bioshock/Halo 3. I expect the 360 to move at least 5 to 5.5 mln. sales from August to 31 December this year. If you look at the facts above from last year one can only agree.

[TheExecutive]

lol I am no fanboy... you are overestimating the 360 by some odd million. The 360 is not selling a million consoles a month. There is no way possible for the 360 to sell 17 million consoles by years end (dec.31st). No way.

I didnt say the PS3 was selling good at all, because this isnt about the PS3. Quit being a fanboy and dragging unrelated consoles into this discussion.

[Bloodmask]

While I can't say exactly how many 360's will be sold in the next few months. It will dramaticly increase over the average for the rest of the year. All the new Christmas releases are coming + Halo 3 is out.

The Christmas season is the biggest time of the year for games consoles. So I wouldn't say Elite24Gamer is too far off. Not exact but pretty close I would venture.

[GrooveChampion]

"Combine that with Cristmas, Mass Effect and all those other games that hits the 360 in combination with the already AAA games on 360 (exclusive ones, the PS3 only has one AAA and multiplatform which is Oblivion)."

Are you saying that the only worthwhile game for PS3 this year has been and will be Oblivion? Is that what the above snip of your post is really saying? That in 2007, the PS3 will go on record as having 1 AAA game, Oblivion, and that's it?

[unlimited]

Wii will be the winner this Christmas a lot of parents is going to be buying it for their children..If the rumor is true and Sony is in fact releasing the 40gb that cost $399 we will see a big increase of sales. The 360 and PS3 will have a big battle this holidays and I think the Sony will take it because there is many people just waiting for another price cut. In Europe even though Microsoft seem to be dominating but i feel that people is not really supporting them. They holding back and seeing what Sony is going to be bringing around the end of this year.

[JACKRABBIT]

There is no use in bickering over what console sold what. All 3 are going to still be around for a long time. No matter what anyone says about either console bad or good. neither company is going to pull out of this anytime soon to much money invested. So if you can afford all 3 systems then go for it if not do you research and chose what's best for you. Good day...........

[NextGen24Gamer]

Are you serious? Are you really that blind? Whats wrong with you? LOL...You really don't know how the industry works? LOL....

October is the third biggest selling month of consoles every single year.

November is the second biggest selling month for consoles every single year.

December is the biggest selling month for consoles every single year.

Last year with ONLY Gears of War...the xbox 360 sold 2 million consoles in the month of December. They sold 700k in November and 500k in October.

This year will be much bigger than last year.

Why?

Gears of War
Halo 3
Bio Shock
Mass Effect
Assasins Creed ( 360 versions always outsells the competitons by far)
Blue Dragon
Lost Odyssey
Call of Duty 4 ( 360 versions always outsells the competitons by far)

And many more. Last year only Gears....2 million in the month of December. This year Gears and many other AAA titles....WOW....

We can safely assume that North America doesn't like the ps3. North America is the biggest video game market on the planet by far. And yet the ps3 has only sold 2 million consoles there while the xbox 360 has sold 7 plus million. Does anyone realize that its over a 3 to 1 ratio....LOL....

Then you look at the sales charts in North America.....

The ps3 games sell like garbage. The xbox 360 has many many games that sell over 1 million copies in the America ALONE. WOW....

The ps3 has NONE. Not one game since its launch has sold over 1 million copies in the good ole USA. Americans have spoken loud and clear. Just like the Japaneese have spoken.....But the only thing is the Americans spend a heck of alot more money than Europeans and Japanese on Games. LOL.....

http://www.vgchartz.com/awe...

And to put things in perspective.....

Halo 3 in 24 hours sold more copies than God of War 2 and Guitar Hero 2 for the Ps2. Both are the Ps2's biggest selling games THIS YEAR. All with a supposive 110 million ps2 fanbase....LOL....You can't say the ps2 gamers aren't buying ps2 games because they have a ps3....LOL....The ps3 games are selling even worse. Resistence is the ps3's biggest selling game since launch and it hasn't even sold 800k in North America....WOW....That gives you an idea of how dominant the halo 3 franchise is and the xbox 360's future.

http://vgchartz.com/ayearly...

Jinxstar

If Halo 3 is a dissappointment at an average of 9.5 and the lowest score being in the mid 8's.....

What does that make Lair, Heavonly Sword, and Warhawk?

Lair averages in the 5's....Heavonly sword is averagig 8.0 right now with many sites giving it 5 and 6's with a solid amount of 7's....and Warhawk the same as heavonly sword stradeling an 8 barely.

Its funny to hear people attempt to bash the biggest selling game of our generation and a supremely highly rated sprinkled in with some 8.8's....

The 5 biggest games to come out for the Ps3 were all major let downs. And maybe thats why you guys are so fierce towards Halo 3. LOL....

Resistence...Low 8's on average. Along with Motorstorm, Heavonly sword, and Warhawk. Then you have Lair...WOW...So what do you unhappy fanboys do? You bash Halo 3...even when its already going down in history as one of the best games ever made and biggest money maker in a 24 hour period. And who doesn't believe that when the next line of consoles launch....Halo 3 will by that time be the biggest selling game of this generation. Over 10 million easy.

[Jinxstar]

Dude your comparing apples to oranges...

PS3 games dont sell in the millions atm. Cause its in its first year. It will eventually. Even if 360 wins it will still be profitable eventually to support either or both consoles.

Talking of multiplatforms is silly. Of course "he with the larger install base will sell more units" its common sense.

As for AAA line up. People aren't buying 360's this year for gears. I feel that Halo and bioshock will help. Mass Effect... I really don't see it doing that well... If it does rock on. I am waiting for reviews. I just don't see the "SciFi RPG Shooter" genre hitting any kind of large fanbase is all...

Blue dragon.... Why did you add this? To make the list longer?

LO looks good. But nothing compared to what Sony is gonna have soon man.... Diversity I could make a list but I really hate when people do that. You know sony has a ton of good games in the next few months as well as next year. If games like Ratchet and Clank don't interest you its of no matter because they interest many many people. To include myself. Its a platformer... How many of those does 360 have? Dead rising... kinda... and....... Yeah. Not a system seller. LBP, unchartd are gonna rake in a ton of fans who are just waiting for a price drop... Along with many games.

MS's big guns are out. Halo disappointed many. too include myself (If you want my gamer tag PM me for either system. I dont want a ton of people buggin me) MS Sold out hard with that crappy ending... Can't let a good thing go out in a blaze of glory can they?

look dude. All I'm saying is the future is unclear.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Then how do you explane the millions sold of COD2, Gears of War, GRAW, Perfect Dark Zero, Dead or Alive 4, Madden NFL 07, Dead Rising, Saints Row and Oblivion on the 360 it's first year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[DJ]

with business stragies and basic economics. The reason Gears of War sold so well is because it was the first great platform-exclusive title released on the 360, and did so exactly a year after launch. There was hardly anything else for 360 owners to buy. With a relatively small selection of great titles on the 360, the sales figures for those titles becomes inflated; in contrast, overall sales for the majority of other titles is usually quite low.

Attach Rate is a term used quite freely by Microsoft, but most people don't understand that a High attach rate so early in a console's life cycle is so dangerous. The Xbox 360 has the highest Software attach rate of any next-gen system, and what this translates to is that its global hardware sales have slammed to a halt. The Asian territories have almost fully rejected the system, and almost every country in Europe has shown little interest. The Wii on the other hand has the smallest attach rate because it's selling hardware at such an incredible rate.

Attach rate is the average number of software units (in this case) that every console owner has. That includes both people who've had the hardware for a long period of time and have been able to build up a substantial library of titles, as well as the people who just purchased the system and only have one title.

[DeZimatoR]

Man its so sad to see fanboys fighting it out.

Do you think your opinion matters? Seriously: do you? In this 'console war', you are just a number.

So whats the point in trying to predict who will come out on top? Just enjoy your games and see how this thing rolls out.

Saying what you think is fine, but don't just keep on spewing the same BS over and over and specially if you are doing it in a new post that has nothing to do with it.

Topic: Developers Concern Over EU 360 Sales

Fact, they are concerned. Like many devs are concerned about the PS3's price. So talk about that and not about who will win the freaking war and why.

Geez. You ppl actually spend more time posting on this site then you do playing games...that's sad.

[Clinton514]

Well said. It's amazing how these topics deviate into the same mess over and over.

Now, I'm off to finish up Heavenly Sword and Bioshock. Hehe.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Because it's fun. WTF are you doing here if you don't like fanboys or arguments?

F**k if their is one thing in this world I can't stand is "can't we all just get along attitude" because it's not possible for the "human" race as a whole to accept everything and everyone. To many religions, races, territories, governments and just plain different "personal" ideas for that to be possible. Dude get a clue or go find some sort of hippie gaming site, if there is one. If there isn't go make one and take the "we love all" lieing bubble jockies with you because if they ever got rid of the fanboys and flameing on this site I would leave.

[Ju]

My two cents to the discussion.

All next gen consoles are under performing in Europe (maybe not the Wii). That as a preface. I think, both M$ and Sony need to double their sales if they want to be successful in the long run.

If a publisher says, they think about "withdrawing" from rest of Europe, but keep supporting UK only, one reason might be, that it costs them pretty nothing to release to UK in addition to the US.

Localization plays a huge role here. If the sales can't justify the additional costs, its hard to release into these territories. Maybe its just greed. I do not think the studios make any loss by doing the additional localizations, but if you don't cross book these costs to the English version (which might be the one you will start off with), then obviously the e.g. French or German version is more expensive (this even more so with the new technology, where, e.g. you have lip sync audio which would require you to re-render animation because they are so detailed now a days).

For me, there is fire in Sony's house as well. But I think, compared to Sony, M$ has one year head start. Said that, they are still where they were a year ago. Sony will react. With two things: That is game library and price. It is hard to see how M$ can counter that. Halo (game supposed to drive sales) and price (the recent price cut) happened already. If that doesn't really drive sales, I think they are in a bigger danger.

It might be perception. There is a reason why 360 is so strong in the US. That is the focus on shooters and sports games (Madden/NBA/MLB). None which you can really sell outside of the US. Now, FIFA08 and PES08 try to expand that a bit, but there will never be a result like Madden in the EU for example. So, yes, the big drives for the American market do not exist in Europe (Japan might have RPGs), but Europe is more a big variety thru out the range of titles.

Well, and there is still the "M$" factor. And that is maybe more a political perception. While M$ is pretty popular in the US (and considered as THE American achievement), it is considered as a "conquerer" everywhere else. Simple as it is. That is maybe also a reason for M$ to have it harder in Europe and Asia. I wouldn't go that far as to say, they (everybody outside the US) hate M$ (maybe a lot do), but if they have a choice they might go with something else. With all the issues and business practices, which become public in regards to M$ (buyouts, quality, etc), it hurts M$ more then the other companies. Now, I know all the companies do that, but in case of MS it is more the general perception like "obvioulsy, that's what they are known for".

I have no idea, how MS could win this battle, to be honest. As soon as the PS3 price is down to 360 level, it is pretty much over for MS, I am pretty sure. MS had its chance. If the 360 could have proven, that it is superior (that is, quality of the product and better performing games), that would have looked different. But, quality wise they screwed it up completely. The PS3 games currently prove that the Sony console is more powerful then the 360 (which knocks down the performance point), well, what remains is the price and the game library. Both things will get attacked pretty heavily maybe as early as this Christmas season. Halo alone will not be enough to decide the battle, IMO, especially outside the US.

But, whatever, these are just predictions. The race is not over yet. A lot can happen. We'll see where we stand in a year from now.

[JHFKDFNFGJKFHDKF]

Honestly; all it takes is for microsoft to drop the price of the premium to $250 and they've basically beaten sony.

And obviously the corresponding price in europe.

[Ju]

I totally agree. But I also think that won't happen. No way to make money in the next 5 years with a $250 360. What's the point of doing business, if you can't make money ?

But, on the positive side, that would probably give me a Wii for $199 or $149.

[Snukadaman]

it makes sense....more 360's sold....you can mod your 360...europe loves their ps2's because they can get pirated games easy.

[Ghoul]

@ Mart dream on buddy,

FAKT is the 360 is selling no more then the xbox1 up today,
The system is no mistake at all but its definatly NOT selling supergood.
The 360 "only" selling 12 million to this date is to be precise very pathetic with 1 year ahead start to the wii and ps3 it sold horrible in its first year WITHOUT competition. the ps3 sells as "good" as the 360, BUT with 200$ more in the pricing area. the ps3 will go down to 400 this christmas, and sorry bro but the 360 can go home.

The thing is this, the 360 had halo released ! what next ??? there are hardly any upcoming games for the system now at least no exclusiv i can think off. the ps3 will simply outlive this short 360 domination by the end of 08.

[SIX]

I was talking to a couple Germans at a wedding, and I asked them about XBOX 360 and if they had one, and the guy was like what? You mean Playstation? I thought it was kinda stange but I guess Sony has much of Europe.

[power of Green]

Now what have you fanboys found.

[WilliamRLBaker]

let alone the fact that outside the UK each country has all ways had a finite amount of video gamers, like the ps3 and wii sales have been slow on all 3 systems, because the initial launch purchases we're by the people that could afford the prices in those countries.

[HondaSIRowner]

PS3 sales are good even with that expensive price tag and it hasn't been a year yet. PS3 has a ton of most likely AAA titles coming soon and in 2008. Do you xbots realize that 360 has had most of its powerful games dished out way too fast and the fact that it looks like all of them are at peak performance. If sales are neck and neck and PS3 is still expensive, you all know whats happening. I'll tell you. Everyone in Europe knows that, hit after hit games for 360 keeps on coming but whats left in the future? That's why they're looking at Sony's console ,for its lifespan/future values. They won't spend money on 360 that has no future anymore. I think that's why they're so close together in Europe.

It's like a boxing match, a boxer keeps moving, waisting energy swinging powerful right jabs, he gets tired. What kind of energy is left for him? in this case, what kind of performance and games are left for 360? It's a good move right now for great AAA titles but what's left in the long run. Its lifespan will be short, forcing yet, another Xbox. Look at Wii, there's nothing else that can be done with it, artist flexibility on graphical performance is out of the question. I'm not even going to mention Japans mentality on 360.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

MS is strong only in America, get over it.

The US is the reason for the fuss, cause people carry too much about this country numbers, but in UK the things are on the same level between PS3 and X360, while other EU countries and Japan, Sony take the lead over X360.

In fact, don't matter what worldwide number you look at... That sum of "official" numbers (NPD + Enterbrain + GfK) just show that MS would have 8.9m and Sony 3.7m, and since MS was about 6m while PS3 release over US and JP, it means PS3 has outsold X360 worldwide since Sony's console come to light, specially since March, when PS3 was released in EU.

If you preffer officialy official numbers from firms, which we all call shippment number, MS said has reached 12.6m, but they was claiming to reach 10m in the last holiday, while Sony says has shipped 6m. Make the math...

Sure this is for Hardware numbers, but the Software ones just trend to fallow.

[felidae]

europeans don't want the 360 - they have a brain.

[JACKRABBIT]

No the fact of the matter is you just hate Americans and everything American because that's the cool thing to do for 2007.You don't even know why you dislike America and everything American.Sad so so Sad.No disrespect intended to europeans just this mindless zombie.

[DJ]

The 360's doing fairly well in North America, where something like 75% of its sales take place. Japan is obviously a lost cause, and Europe (except for the U.K.) has been at a halt for quite some time now. This is very significant because Europe has the potential to become larger and more important than North America from the perspective of a worldwide games industry. In fact, a lot of high profile PS3 titles are coming out of Europe, such as Heavenly Sword, The Getaway series, Singstar, Wipeout, Killzone 2, and the new online platform, HOME.

European sales for PS2 nearly matched North American sales for the popular console, which goes to show how significant that market is. It's actually easy to see why Xbox 360 sales are so low, despite its two-year market presence, and why the Wii and PS3 caught up so quickly.

[jay3]

I'd have thought someones thoughts in a podcast would be as purposeful as a blog but....ok.

[ElementX]

If developers can sell a million copies of a game in NA and UK they'll be happy. It's just region crap like different languages and such that they need to spend more money to change, so for some developers it might not be worth it.

[MikeGdaGod]

and thats a problem they don't have to worry about with bluray. they can just make one disk for worldwide use.

thanks for proving my point, i'm glad we finally agree. MS made a mistake using dvds.

EDIT:

"You can get caught, just so you know"

i dont give a sh!t. dude that was last year around this time. what are they going to do, send the RROD Police after me?

[ElementX]

No, they still need to edit voice-overs and closed captioning for each region, dumbass. Go back to pirating games. BTW, you say you returned 2 360s? You pirate games, right? so you return modified boxes? You can get caught, just so you know.

@above
I'm still waiting for your retort to my point that voices and CC still need to be used on Bluray and DVDs, your point is rather pointless.

[spammy_nooo]

Its because Europeans are a 'third party'. They don't feel (as)loyal as Americans do about the 360, and not (as)loyal about the Japanese with the ps3

They choose what they want. Why would they want a 360 with all of the hardware faults of late and so many games to come out in the very near future for the ps3? Halo 3 would be the only reason, unless they were just plain impatient and can't wait AT ALL for their games(The ps3's game drought is perfectly normal for the first year of any console btw). The ps3 is the more promising console right now, and most people look at least a few months into the future when buying anything that is $300 or more I would hope.

Europe=No Console Brand Loyalty=Less 360's sold.

[Maddens Raiders]

People outside of the United States see Microsoft as a low-tech, shyt product w/ no reliability and a "one track mind" mentality when it comes to variety or lack thereof in games availability. Without America MS would only be a software publisher right now like Sega. I almost feel sorry for them, but that's what happens when you try to be like the PS2 and the world can see right through your histrionics.

People worldwide are simply waiting for the PlayStation 3 to drop in price because it's a console and a game peddler "they can trust". Everyone knows that -- we've all seen the opinion polls and what not. We all know who still holds the largest fanbase in the world. We all know that Microsoft has a small contingent of loyals (mainly in the United States) and have managed to pick up a few newcomers along the way w/ the 2005 launch. But with nearly 2 years on the market now and 11.10 in total sales and the graphics of Halo 3 developers see that the writing is on the wall http://www.n4g.com/NewsPend... The 360 is holding back development and has peaked graphically with GeoW; we all know that truthfully. This system is nearly obsolete and will be replaced in the next 18 - 24 months. When that happens -- it's all over but the crying for Microsoft. Contenders nearly always have to bring attention to themselves to remind the public that they're still relevant; whilst champions simply set trends quietly. King of Consoles.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[aiphanes]

At least half of these people will buy a PS3 when the price drops....$399 is a start...by this time next year...it will be $299....then $199 in 2009 or 2010....Sony will ultimately rule the console world..

The Wii is a fad...it is low tech...but it will sale because of low price...but in a year...are you still wanting to be playing a game on the wii when you can be playing Final Fantasy 13 or Fallout 3?

[TheExodus]

PS3 launched with a $300/unit subsidy at $599. Do you actually believe Sony's been able to cost reduce the hardware by $500/unit in the last 10 months? These $100 price cuts aren't savings being passed along, they're bribes being offered by Sony in hopes of convincing consumers to split the tab on a PS3.

Consoles typically shed 50% of their launch price throughout their life cycle which means we will never see a PS3 below $299 unless Sony decides to lose money throughout this cycle just to retain market share.

[Xbox is the BEST]

will never buy a PS3. We overhyped and underdelivered again.

[Xbox is the BEST]

will never buy a PS3. We overhyped and underdelivered again.

[Synex]

Uh oh :)

[Xbox is the BEST]

the end Microsoft will win.

[Synex]

I er edukatid!

[teto83]

playstation = videogames.

[AngryHippo]

....playstation = still waiting for the f-ing games, come on release some decent AAA ones.

[Rybnik]

Some of you guys really need to take off the blue and green (respectively) goggles. Someone posted a fantastically revealing link earlier which I will repost. I realize it will prolly be ignored, but for those who care to see past the BS spin and how the situations for MS and Sony really stand, and where they likely will be in the future should check this out. There is also a great article about HDDVD-Blu-Ray and what apple is doing behind the scenes...As a non-fanboy, both of these articles have been rather eye-opening to me and are worth reading.
http://www.roughlydrafted.c...
http://www.roughlydrafted.c...

[mandrake]

Watch out for that site. The phrase "even the devil can quote scripture" comes to mind. He is not objectively analyzing numbers to discover facts. Rather, he has a pre-conceived hypothesis, and he picks and chooses numbers that are favorable or at least spinnable to his point of view while conveniently ignoring those that are not. He's more of a debater than an analyst.

[Rybnik]

I have this feeling that you are a fanboy. Now, I'm not judging or anything, but those articles I pointed at are ANYTHING but bias. The quotes and figures used are not "convenient" they are the truth. And, oddly enough, they correlate well with what John Davidson is pointing out in this podcast. I'm sorry that the facts actually are a bit in favor of Sony fanboys, but that is the truth, deal with it. The only reason Madden did not sell better on the PS3 this year is because of money (PS3 price, Sony money/ help in development to match 360). Even so, it still sold. The PS3, with the $399 model I think may be enough to begin to consistently outsell the 360. If/ when this happens, MS will be in trouble.

The fact that PS3 sells (worldwide) almost as well as its much cheaper competitor, is not good for Microsoft. Finally the 30% failure rate+ problems resulting from every major game release so far, is really not good for MS. If the failure rate for the 360 was within the outstanding range the rate for PS3 (less that 1% ish?) then I do think PS3 would be in pretty deep water, as it is, the horrible publicity RROD has brought MS has all but ensured that 360 is dead in Japan, and MAY peter out in Europe. This leaves North America. Yes, the largest game market exists here, however although it is a growing population, it as outnumbered by non-gamers. Those non-gamers are buying Wii's when they get tired of the novelty, but still like games they will buy PS3 because it will be cheaper, more reliable, and have a far greater exclusive catalog of diverse and innovative games. Many well-respected industry people share and have voiced this view as well.

[Megaton]

It's not just software that is causing foreign consumers to turn their back on it. I don't know about Europe, but one of the core complaints in Japan is that the hardware is horribly made, and just not worth the money to buy half-assed American electronics. The rest of the world doesn't live in the same "buy this cause we say it's great" consumer culture as Americans do.

It's kind of embarrassing that America's hardware contribution to the world of gaming is something that breaks 30% of the time. Yeah, yeah, call me a fanboy if you want, I wouldn't expect much else from this site, but in all reality I just wish the thing wasn't rushed out the door to get a jump on everyone, basically releasing the equivalent of beta software in hardware form.

[mandrake]

You may not like the strategy they adopted, which depended heavily on being first to market, but this is arguably one of two main reasons MS has a fighting chance to actually consolidate its foothold in the gaming market. The other reason is Sony's decision to leverage its gaming business in order to support a fledgling storage format. If Sony had not insisted on its Trojan horse gambit and released a blu-ray free PS3 earlier and cheaper, I strongly believe the 360 would have seriously struggled to match the performance of XBOX 1. Every strategy has trade-offs. In this case, it stil looks like it's paying off for MS.

[Megaton]

@ mandrake:

I understand why they did it, and it did work the way they wanted it to, in a sense (though the first year wasn't very good for them up until hype for Gears of War started building up). It just bothers me that they're seemingly trying to hide the fact that their hardware is the most unstable in the history of gaming, by a gigantic margin. All the while acting like Europe and Japan are just confused, and don't know what they're missing.

They expect the rest of the world to buy into this just because Americans have. Americans are somewhat generally uninformed consumers, being bombarded with bright and shiny spin everywhere they turn. This often leads to the superior being diminished into the publicly inferior, because at the end of the day, advertising trumps all in this country (and I'm not just talking about the world of gaming, it happens everywhere).

I just would have liked to see them hammer out all these hardware snafus before launch, to maybe give off the idea that Americans can still make things that work well, but I understand why they jumped the gun.

[Lumbo]

Oh PLEASE mandrake quit the "trojan horse" BS. It lacked any credibility when it was posted the first time, and it makes your otherwise normal comment look stupid.

Simple matrix for you:

Playstation 1 -> storage medium: CD space on medium: 700MB
Playstation 2 -> storage medium: DVD space on medium: 8000MB
Playstation 3 -> storage medium: BluRay space on medium 50000MB

Was CD a trojan ? no, was DVD a trojan ? no, is BluRay a trojan? no
Sony multiplied the storage space on the drive they used with EVERY console they released, that is called a logical evolution cause more space is good cause games get bigger all the time.

Had BluRay not existed when they constructed the PS3 they would have taken HD-DVD as the storage medium, easy as that. But you can not honestly expect them to IGNORE their own format and use a competing one instead just so YOU feel happy. It is completely normal for them to use BluRay.

The constant whining about its inclusion only show your own doubt at Microsofts decision to still use DVD as main medium and at the same time REDUCE the available storage on it.

X-Box 1 -> storage medium used: DVD -> storage space on medium: 8GB
X-Box 2(360) -> storage medium used: DVD -> storage space on medium 7GB
(due to ineffective and multiple times hacked DRM that eats up a whole GIG of the disk without gaining anything for the user)
X-Box 3 (720?) -> storage medium: likely NOT HD-DVD, as they rather want to go fully diskless so that will leave them with .. USB-Sticks? ... i am overwhelmed cause of their innovation there.

On your point: yes, i think the page is somewhat onesided and overly anti-microsoft. I'll rather wait for sales evidence for the x-mas season before jumping to conclusions, thx.

[The Wood]

plus up.

[Gina-get-u]

Hey dumbo, quit trying to sound like you know something. If any post in this thread reeks of stupid, it's yours. Here's an even simpler matrix for you:

CD = standard optical storage medium
DVD = standard optical storage medium
BD = NOT standard optical storage medium

See the difference boy? CD and DVD were the industry-wide consensus storage formats during their time - no competing formats, so the consumer could buy them without any fear of getting burned betamax style. Not so with BluRay. If BluRay does become the industry standard by killing HD-DVD, it will be because and only because Sony muscled its format into homes tucked away in the guts of PS3s. That sounds like a trojan horse to me - you know, the way the Greeks beat Troy? It's called S-T-R-A-T-E-G-Y.

Oh, and that little bit about Sony sticking an HD-DVD in the PS3 if Bluray was not invented just so it could make you happy? Man, save that little gem so you can look back on it if and when you graduate from high school, and laugh at how retarded you used to be. At this point I won't bother trying to explain to you why it's dumb because it could take a week for the message to soak through your thick skull, but trust me, it is dumb. Here's a little hint why: who would Sony have to pay royalties to for the use of HD-DVD technology?

[jlytle1234]

toshiba owns the rights to dvd and hd-dvd. sony is partial owner of the rights to bluray. what it comes down to is alot of companies decided they didnt want to keep paying toshiba for formats. so they all went in together and made bluray. And sony put it in the ps3 and i am very pleased. i like knowing that i have a high capacity disc that devs can cram a load of stuff on.

[Imalwaysright]

If this really happens than 360 would be dead in a matter of moths in Europe!!! How can a console sell if it doesnt have GAMES?? im Sure that M$ wont allow this or it would be the new Dreamcast!!

[Rybnik]

It may yet become the new Dreamcast. I kind of doubt it though. MS will definitely make enough money to hold third place. Further, if HD-DVD somehow becomes standard, and MS becomes aggressive in forming diverse AAA quality studios as Sony has, they may take the next-next gen crown from Sony....with an HD-DVD Xbox 720..we'll see, that is a good 3 years away.

[Saint Sony]

This news is BOGUS!
1up obviously tries to get some attention for some reason.

360 games and PS3 games are the most selling games in many countries beating already PC in several areas in Europa outside UK.

If the game is good it will sell. European people won't buy crap.

[Laxe]

Yet Transformers is still in the UK's Top 10 selling games at the moment lol! Yeah, I know, shame on us Brits. :)

[AngryTypingGuy]

I don't know if the article is true, but even if it is, Microsoft is still doing/has done a hell of a job with their first two consoles. It takes a lot to become a powerhouse in this industry where many have failed (Sega, Atari, Neo Geo, etc.). This is an industry where you can be on top for two generations, and then be outsold the next. You really have to strive to stay ahead of the pack if you want to be number one.

Even if Microsoft isn't quite where they want to be in some parts of the world, I think they eventually will be, because they are persistent, aggressive (both in marketing and securing great games/exclusives), and most of all, they have the money to do it. And we all know that money talks.

[Synex]

I'm honestly embarrassed that America has released such a piece of crap they call a gaming console.

And the PES2008 + PS3 bundle will end the war in Europe.

(What's the record on disagrees? I'm going for it tonight) :)

[Lumbo]

The record for disagrees today is 60+ won by TheMArt.
Sorry, but i think you don't stand a chance in that race.

[Synex]

Ah Crap. I guess I have to be the Biggest Sony Fanboy on this site.

XBOX SUX--SONY ROX!!!!

To be quite honest us PS3 owners will welcome anyone that sells their 360s for a PS3. We will forgive you we all make mistakes at sometime, but just finish the fight quick and sell your 360 believe me you won't regret it. Especially with UT3 coming out this Fall, you won't look back at Halo 3 MP. Trade it in or sell it while it still holds some value. Oh actually wait for the $399 PS3 and use the sony card to get it for $299 :). You're welcome for helping you find your way.

PLAY B3YOND!

I dedicate this to you Lumbo. Thanks for the advice.

[Lumbo]

You could try to write like NASIM ...
But i wouldn't advise that, you would only end up on ignore, and you can't disagree with ignored people as their posts don't show up, so you wouldn't win ... again

edit: Yes, i will buy UT3, but most likely for the PC.

[felidae]

360 will not sale much more than the first xbox.

ps3 will sell as much as the ps2.

people love the PS3 and hate the 360 because it breaks and the only AAA games are shooters.

PS3 FTW - well, i don't need to say that ;-)

TheMART will be the last one playing 640p games .. lolol

[teto83]

they know better than buying a low quality-american made console.LOL....:(
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!

[Aniperk]

Japan and Asia is lost. Now Europe. I hope you xbots start
realising that there is no global domination you thought it was.
In the end high quality entertainment is what's matter and thats
something the white bucket cannot do. All the black propaganda
the Americans and Microsoft started against the PS3 now its fading away. Bill cannot
understand that his brainwashing methods apply only to his fellow
citizens. The rest of the world chooses.

[SofaKingReetodded]

realize that there are plenty of smart americans that don't buy into the MS hype.

To me the funniest part is that the one thing all these xbots idiots have been predicting for the PS3. "hahahahaha devs will start pulling support for the waitstation because of it's abysmal sales" IS EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THEIR RED RING MACHINE.

even if you choose NOT to believe this article, the FACT remains that COD:4 will not be supported on the 360 in asia. Not a good sign xbots, not a good sign at all. Take that telephone pole out of your eye before you go predicting doom for the PS3.

[AngryHippo]

....this is the beginning of the end for microsoft and the 360. All hail the mighty PS3 and all of its fantastic games that are out and its awesome online service, so much better than xbox live. I really love Sony and how they stick to their release schedules and how their first party titles really show what their console can do. The graphics are on another level to the 360's, not even comparable. I love the six axis, omg a dream, really shown off with Lair, just amazing. Note this is serious sarcasm. Sony fanboys f-off this thread, you are like flies around sh@t. Can't you post positive stuff about your PS3's, and comment positively on that. I am not a fanboy, i own both consoles but neither of these consoles are doing amazing.... FACT. The Wii fanboys are the only people that can take the piss because their console is kicking the living sh!t out of the 360 and the ps3 especially in Japan, but they don't, and do you know why because they are too busy just enjoying their console. So sony fans get off your high horse and stop being idiots. I'm not hating on the ps3, i'm hating the tw@ts that post stupid comments in a 360 forum that does not affect them in the slightest. Rant over sorry.

[jlytle1234]

its on the main page. wii owners dont post because they probably dont even know about this website being they are casual gamers and care more about cnn or myspace to post here or the retirement home doesnt allow access to the internet or they are at school learning their multiplication tables. and they arent playing their wii becasue they are sick of wii bowling or the wii is put up in their closet until they have another get-together this weekend.
edit: and sales or lack of sales for either (wii excluded)console effects everyone.
edit2: i exclude wii because it isnt the same kind of console as ps3 and 360 and nintendo makes about 90% or its games.

[leon76]

EUROPE = PLAYSTATION ZONE, PERIOD.

[grifon]

In asia,PS3 only sells well in japan.In other region like Taiwan,Korea it sells bad.
http://www.watch.impress.co...

[jlytle1234]

that picture could say anything and be from any period of time.

[dangerstepp]

The idiot that posted this took the whole statement out of context. The above title should read: "European developers..." not just "developers". Big difference between Eurpoean and all developers. Plus I think the whole discussion was on how terrible the PS3's pricing scheme is.

I hate n4g.