PlayStation 3 - Physics Effects SDK

At CEDEC 2009, Sony Computer Entertainment exhibited the Physics Effects SDK. The Physics Effects SDK is a physics simulation engine optimized for the Cell Broadband Engine, which is provided as part of the PlayStation 3 SDK. Because the Physics Effects SDK is optimized for PlayStation 3, it can do physics simulations very fast, even though they are considered to impose a very high computing load. This could expand developers' scope to include even more complex physical phenomena and mechanisms in games.

[Gabe EatsWell]

EVERYTHING!

[Christopher_Walken]

I would love to see a developer take this physics engine to the limit.

[RememberThe357]

Yeah someone need to show this off in a game so we can see how it would really impact the gameplay or immersion. I guess Sony was just using the HAVOK engine as an interim for this.

[phosphor112]

It's just the library they have compiled. It is actually programmed specifically for the Cell now. Allowing heavier loads, but the actual calculations, they have already been used before. I would have like to seen the water physics and soft body physics though, which they didn't show case (nor any other consoles has, of yet). Anyway, all the stuff in the videos have been done in Force Unleashed. I can't wait to see what new stuff they can do.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

If you played LBP and attempted to create a complex level or object, you'd know that the PS3 is a physics computing beast! You can literally stack thousands of blocks in mid air and every single time will it act naturally when it falls. Rewind and change a single bit of block and the entire outcome changes by that one single piece very realistically.

Speaking of LBP, I can't wait for the online coop build mode.

[Sarcasm]

"It only does...
EVERYTHING! "

Except make Aaron Greenberg a decent person.

[D4RkNIKON]

LBP only does EVERYTHING lol. This really reminds me of the physics in LBP. Sony is made of win right now.

[Gregmonk]

Another example as to why the playstation brand has, and always will be leader, the of the pact.

[siyrobbo]

source engine did this years ago

[Ocelot525]

@siyrobbo

WTF you don't understand?!

1. it's a physics library rewritten for the cell, so physics calculations are less demanding for the CPU. We know such physics libraries already exists but they were not optimized for the cell. now developers have access to physics effects that are less demanding for the PS3.
and btw: I've never seen rope effects in the source games

[evrfighter]

this is last-gen pc gaming...

[The XBOT]

You said it does everything. I havent seen it around here anywhere, but since you declared it, it seems that it is mmy right to specualte that the ps3 has done your mom, dad, and all parts of ur family, fatso :)

[rockleex]

Last gen PC gaming already had physics libraries that were re-written for the Cell even before the PS3's development?

Interesting. I need to start using last gen time machines so I can rewrite physics libraries for the PS4 before it's even in development.

*RockLeeX leaves to use that last gen time machine*
*RockLeeX returns with knowledge from the future*

With my knowledge from the future, I know evrfighter will eventually reply to our comments towards him with his usual, "You guys are putting words in my mouth" or "I don't own a 360, only a PC"

But I wouldn't really trust that last gen time machine. <_<

[Saaking]

PS3 for Best console this gen.

[Game13a13y]

PS3 is simply awesome. with the price point of $299, its sure set on a destruction course like a steam engine.

[shadow2797]

fanboy? check. ;-).

They're both great consoles. Just because you can make a list of strengths doesn't mean someone else can't make any equally long list for the PS3.

Enjoy both. And if you can't do that, then enjoy your console. You don't need to do Microsoft's marketing for them. The same goes to those who slam the 360.

[WengYong]

largest library of games, ps2 (check)
largest number of games above 70 ps2 (check)
best live exprience, should be online. pc pwns live(check)
cheapest sku with the arcade to start gaming. ps2 still cheaper (check)
best Motion controls, natals not even released (check)
very good number of exclusives, so does the ps3 (check)
Best version of the multiplayer games pc (check)

360 is awesome, but your trolling is pathetic.

edit: @ above agreed, well said

[Saaking]

PS3, the greatest console this generation, delivering exclusives, many features, and great customer satisfaction.

[Gabe EatsWell]

360, the worst console this generation, delivering multiplats, very few features and poor customer satisfaction.

[Saaking]

Indeed. Well said.

[DevastationEve]

It's programmed on the CellBE, since RSX isn't capable. Somebody needs a Xenos...must be very awkward to be caught with an underpowered graphics solution.

[Pandamobile]

Yeah, the PS3 could have benefited hugely had it waited a couple months. Nvidia probably would have had the G80 GPU ready by then and the PS3 would look a lot better than it does today. The difference between the Geforce 7xxx series (PS3) and the 8xxx series (PC, around the same time as the PS3) is enormous.

[Darkeyes]

OH Panda... Lol Panda..

BTW I didn't say anything about Crysis.... LMAO.

And Apocaly... Talk this Bullsh!t when 360 gets a game even half as decent looking as Uncharted 2...

[Pandamobile]

"OH Panda... Lol Panda.. "

What's that supposed to mean.

[Darkeyes]

Nothing Panda... Just reminds me off all the past "Crysis is the best" posts from you......

I have a gut feeling that even this argument was made by you keeping Crysis in mind... Thats all..

BTW I agree Crysis is great looking...

[Pandamobile]

Why are you bringing Crysis into this?

[Darkeyes]

Well... For one, it's the only game that is not possible on the current console (these are your words)... And is probably the only game that require those specs you posted.... Cause frankly, Uncharted 2 looks better than most games (should I dare say, it only second to Crysis)....

Frankly, PS3 doesn't need those specs you posted... I am happy with the way it is... Waiting 6 months more is what I wouldn't want.... I can put up with not having a Crysis kind game on the PS3... KZ2 looks great as well and suffices my needs....

Edit:Besides, there is a Crysis post so Njoy... Oh already the first post nice....

[dustgavin]

PS3 is just entering it's 3rd year with graphics and physics that no other current system can touch. If anything, it is the other system *cough cough* that was released FAAR too early.

BTW Those are just demonstrations that show how fast the cell is able to process. The PS3 has plenty of room for future growth. They are just now scratching the surface of what it is capable of.

[LCF]

No one knows the specs of the RSX. Sony nor Nvidia gave specs out. It is a custom-built GPU with the Cell in mind, made in Sony's fabs.
Cell/RSX needs to be looked as a whole with the Cell doing the bulk of the work.

[Pandamobile]

Actually the RSX specs are quite easy to find.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

It's based on the Geforce 7800.

[LCF]

Those are not official lol.

[Pandamobile]

Yes they are. Those are the specs listed at E3 2005 and at a Sony press conference in 2006.

[LCF]

Look at it again, then look at wiki. Sony nor Nvidia gave specs out. If you knew the history about the whole RSX clout you would know that those wiki RSX specs are speculation and nothing more.

The RSX is custom-built. No specs were given.

[DevastationEve]

Holy Shrek! 14 disagrees with the truth! PS3 fanboys are so fragile!

RSX: 24 pixel + 8 vertex shaders. Built off the aged nVidia 7 Series, an architecture which no longer is used, as all modern GPUs have gone unified. RSX can't handle physics since its pipelines are dedicated. It's also nowhere near as efficient as Xenos is at load balancing and keeping the pipeline full. This is why developers have to migrate most of the graphic workload off the much hindered RSX to the CellBE.

Xenos: 3 16-pipeline shader arrays in a 48-way dual parallel unified shader core, plus Xenos's daughter die which comprises of 192 pixel processors and additional logic for high bandwidth needs (antialiasing, buffer blending, tile rendering). Built to be compliant with Direct X 10.1, since it has a tesselation unit. New dev kits will ship with the X Engine, which extends the API to utilize Xenos's previously locked features (since they limited the API to be compliant with a subset of D3D 9.0c).

[Pandamobile]

DirectX 10.1? What the hell are you on about? The Xenos was designed way before DX10 was even getting heavily into production. The Xenos has a tessalator and unified architecture which was common for ATI graphics cards of that time.

And to the b1tches complaining because it's Wikipedia, look at the fricking source. It's a PDF file that was released at E3 2005.

[JBaby343]

All those stats must be why 360 has games looking like Killzone 2, Uncharted 1 & 2, and GT5. If all those numbers are true, and I'm not saying they're not, certainly your fanboy mind can come up with something else to show how the PS3 is hurting because of the vastly underpowered RSX. The RSX does exactly what Sony wants it to. They planned for the Cell to perform all the physics, among other things, and RSX to perform specific tasks its tailored for. If Xenos was soooo powerful certainly 360 would have something to show for itself to match what's on the PS3. It must be so awkward for you to be caught with an underpowered console. Truth stings.

[Kleptic]

all the old GPU debates are nearly pointless...as this video shows that the PS3 does things with its CPU that the 360 cannot...all physics are done on the 360's gpu...the cpu in the 360 simply runs instructions, and the GPU does all the rendering...

so even if the 360 gpu is slightly faster, it doesn't matter...because the PS3's gpu does not have to be taxed nearly as much...the only real difference between the two machines gpu wise that you regularly see is that the PS3 usually does a cpu based AA, and the 360 does gpu MSAA because of its extra 10megs of EDRAM...some prefer one over the other...I don't care, you can only really tell a difference in screen shots...you seem them in motion; both systems could use more ram for better AA and resolution...the negative part is that most multiplat developers do not handle the PS3 that way...they use a standard system where the gpu does nearly all the work load...and when the ps3 is handled like that, it is DEFINITELY weaker than the 360...but when a developer handles it like 1st party studios do, its a totally different machine...

but the proof is in the games...thats all that matters...the 360 is the king of UE3 screenshots...but a static screen shot will show you the best parts of the games...you see a screen shot of a PS3 game like killzone 2...and it looks great, but its not even half of whats so impressive...you see it in motion, with all the physics, ridiculous lighting, and volumetric particle effects...and there isn't a 360 game anywhere near it...and GG stated that the cell can render up to 40% of a single frame when things get intense...the 360 does not have a cpu capable of that...and its exactly why Sony kept saying how the cpu and gpu compliment each other entirely...its not a 'pc' like architecture where the gpu does almost all the rendering...

[The XBOT]

I fukced Sony and Sony Fanboys are the result.

[patterson]

The tools available to PS3 devs are really opening up now and it's only going to be getting better.

Everybody scoffed at the Cell Broadband Engine early on because of it's high learning curve, but now we are starting to see the fruits from it's complexity.

[Pandamobile]

But these are pretty simplistic physics. There's nothing here that screams 'cell power'. They could do the same demos on a 360 or even a PC from 2004 for that matter - without breaking a sweat.

Maybe they're just trying to unify a physics platform for Sony devs to use. I dunno.

Why am I getting disagrees? Do you think that's all the cell is capable of?

[champ21]

Theres no hope for the misguided.

Let them wander in their delusions. PS3 still having alot of headroom is their wishful thinking.

Sony only leads them further astray.

[koyomi koy]

it reminds me of physical effects of LBP.

[Pandamobile]

I'm kinda surprised some of you aren't getting mad that they're using the Unreal Engine for the demos.

But other than that, it looks like PhysX for the PS3. Which is pretty cool.

[El_Colombiano]

It's obvious it's running on UE3 tech, if you look closely, none of the textures were able to pop in through the entirety of the demo.

[Pandamobile]

You mean the parts where they were just blocks?

I'm talking about the part where the guy had a gun in his hand :P

[iamtehpwn]

ROFLMFAO
+BUBBLES!

[OrganicMachine]

maybe this PHYSICS EFFECT SDK can be integrated into Unreal 3 engine?

[iamtehpwn]

It doesn't matter what graphics library they're using.
Physics libraries are independent from graphics libraries, and can be reused in anything.

[Sarcasm]

"It's obvious it's running on UE3 tech, if you look closely, none of the textures were able to pop in through the entirety of the demo."

LMAO I always spit my water out on my computer.

Hilarious.

[BaSeBaLlKiD721]

and the part when he was shooting the gun looked alot like unreal tournament 3 with the HUD. the gun also looked like the link gun from that game as well.

[Sarcasm]

Wow I'm sleepy. I meant "I almost" not "I always" in my last comment.

[phalanx_mark]

Ue3 had its own physics mod, remember the lego mod for ps3 Unreal Tournament 3, that had some pretty cool physics, one of coolest ut3 ps3 maps aswell! Perhaps thats why they chose to use Unreal Tournament as an example since that was allowed to be user moddable, in this case with new ps3 sdk. Maybe we could see these latest sdk features implemented in future ut3 maps!

[OrganicMachine]

right now some of Sony's first party developers are using HAVOK physics engine, which I believe a third party software. Uncharted 2 uses it (if I remember it correctly) and Killzone 2 uses it (it's on the case).. Maybe if they use this Physics Effects SDK they can take that 100% down.. ;)

edit: THERE I FIXED IT! jeez, my PC has GTX260 on :P I know what PhysX is, I just didn't type it correctly..

[Pandamobile]

PhysX is made by Nvidia, so it'd still be third party.

[El_Colombiano]

PhysX is owned by NVIDIA now. Haha sorry.

[OrganicMachine]

lol you're right I should've typed Physics Effects SDK :P

[ape007]

cool things can be imagined with this

anyway the Euphoria engine seen in gta 4 is just mindblowing

it's truly big step

also the kz2 physics engine is great too

that gas tank in kz2 feels so real

[Ravage27]

i had loads of fun shooting at the canisters at weird angles and seeing them fly and spin crazily in the air. I actually somewhat mastered the art of sending them towards the general direction of the enemy :p

[Sarcasm]

Third party or not, if it's made for the Cell it will probably "Just work better"

[Sanhlami]

If it can simulate realistic teabagging then I will be happy.

[phalanx_mark]

what about teh b00b physics

[JoelR]

Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 for that ... sorry

[Pandamobile]

Too bad the biggest break through in physics this year was DMM and the only game that really uses that is the Force Unleashed.

I hope that takes off soon. Digital Molecular Matter is incredible. This is just one object turning into a bunch of smaller objects like every physics engine has done for the last 10 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[OrganicMachine]

I see what you're saying but that looks to me a very tasking physics engine, the physics effects sdk they are showing can be rendered faster and doesn't seem to put a huge load on the CPU (coz it's being rendered @ 1ms)...

[micro_invader]

Except SW:TFU didn't even use it that much either. I'm guessing it was because it was on consoles and that tech demo they showed was running on a powerful PC.

but yeah, I would love to see DMM and Euphoria being used in more games, they're both great engines.

[sorceror171]

As has been noted, while this physics SDK doesn't break new ground in terms of what it does, it seems to be awfully impressive in terms of how fast it does it. Properly used, the Cell is a beast for number-crunching. Unfortunately, it's hard to properly use. Wrapping it up in an SDK makes that a lot easier.

Too bad Sony didn't have this SDK out earlier. The SPUs are what sets the PS3 apart, and they should be doing everything in their power to help developers to use them. Properly utilized, the PS3 should be able to do a lot of the physics that a higher-end PC can do.

[cjflora]

The Force Unleashed used their physics engine horribly. "Oh, look how realistic that glass shatters...and then disappears after 3 seconds?" The fact that the destructible items vanished almost instantly completely kills the immersion that the physics created.

[Ninjamonkey]

Looks good.

If sonys 1st parties can keep developing this stuff then all the better.

And pandamobile watched that, brilliant stuff.

[mastercon12]

that was pretty lame, imo. In reality, that same physics principle is 5 years old, and was used in half life 2. Way to go, sony. LBPs physics were cooler.

[OrganicMachine]

I think the point of the demo was to show an optimized Physics engine that can be rendered so quickly and without stressing the CPU...

and there goes my last bubble.. :)

[DaTruth]

Here's another!

[beardpapa]

Don't know about you guys, but that rope demo around 1 minute reminded me of noby noby boy haha. =)

[patterson]

The idea here is that they're able to perform these tasks with little overhead and gives PS3 devs more middleware tools at their disposal. Making programming easier.

Why this is a negative thing to the both of you is beyond me.

[Pandamobile]

I didn't say it was a negative. It's just much of a step forward either.

[patterson]

It's a big step forward because devs won't have to pay for licensing on engines like Havok. It's already in the PS3 SDK now.

Time is money, money is time, easier and cheaper to program, etc. Things that programmers would gladly like to inherit.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

The piece of crap 360 couldn't render 1/3 the physics calculation of the PS3. Everything is pretty much scripted in 360 games.

[champ21]

well both of them fail at doing anything worthwhile in terms of graphics which is an even bigger issue then physics.

so yea if you are complain about physics, should complain about the low res graphics first lol.

no point in doing everything, when its all done in a sub par way.

[thereapersson]

If they released this in a "consumer-friendly" format as a download over the PSN. You could create your own scenarios and play with the physics, just like they are doing in this video.

Then again, we always have LBP!

[Godmars290]

Wonder why there aren't similar tech demos for the 360?

[Sarcasm]

The only one I remember is the Unreal Engine 3.5. But I guess it's not specifically for 360. So I don't know.

[Godmars290]

Why disagree? Everyone goes on about who has the better machine, yet MS has done nothing that really represents the 360's technical advantages. If it has any.

Where Sony is showing things that can be implemented through software updates, All MS has to show are application added to XBL Gold, and Natal.

[DigitalAnalog]

I really hate people associating Cell with graphics. I really hope this showcases an example of future games to come.

*Killzone 2, grenade physics on the moving train comes to mind.....

[cjflora]

I hated the grenades during that level. I would forget we were on a moving train and toss one, just to watch in horror as it came right back at me. Hahaha! It was a blast.

[DigitalAnalog]

Yet another reason to using the Cell processor....As opposed to simply graphics. Put more of this and the argument that PS3 could do more than the 360 is further justified.

[LTC]

really!?

So Uncharted 2 is graphically cr@p in your eyes.
I should adjust your statement " The 360 fails at doing anything worthwile in terms of graphics"
Thats better.

[champ21]

uncharted is an exclusive thus there is no superior version to compare it by.

list of games i played in the last few months my brother as well. Me on the pc bro on the ps3. ps3 was clearly inferior:

farcry2
fallout3
tombraider
call of duty world at war
prince of persia
grid

just to name afew.

[Erotic Sheep]

Uhm.. champ, its the exclusives that show the differences between consoles. Exclusives are not limited by another console, they are made for that particular console, making good use of all its strong points.

I dont think you should focus on multiplats but start looking at why the 360 hasn't produced graphical games like Killzone 2, MGS4 or Uncharted 2.

Yeah I do agree the PC is still above consoles in terms of graphics but to say the consoles fail is just making you look stupid. Keep in mind not everyone is willing to fork out 4000 dollars for just a damn PC.

[talltony]

Considering the ps3 needs more heart and soul to be put into development for it's games, whats your point showing inferior ports? Thats not a good comparison of the ps3's true capabilities. Thats actually terrible logic.

[HypnoticMonkey]

This is great news, this basically means that companies like ND haven't actually maxed out the PS3 because they will always be making new engines to improve how games perform.

[dkgshiz]

Any games on the PC that have fully surpassed console games in terms of graphics. Crysis is the only one. And Uncharted 2 is looking mighty good. Its easily on the same graphics level as crysis. Im not into PC gaming at all anymore. I got tired of forking out so much money just to play the latest games.

[kaveti6616]

You just contradicted yourself. You said there aren't any PC games that surpassed PS3 games in terms of graphics, and then you mentioned Crysis. If you're implying that a PS3 is more powerful than a PC, then you're dead wrong. The PC doesn't get as many exclusive titles as consoles because there is more money to be made when making games multiplatform. Most developers will port the game from PC to consoles, and they don't want to make the console version of the game look like a turd next to the PC version, so they don't take full advantage of PC hardware to make the game. Crytek did take advantage of what can be done on high-end PCs, so Crysis looks unbelievable compared to games like Uncharted and Killzone 2. Not that those games don't look great, but I think that they could have looked a lot better if the Devs had made those games exclusively for the PC. There would be better textures, better HDR, better physics, just everything better overall. I could make the claim that developers who make games for both PC and consoles have to gimp down the PC versions somewhat in order to make the game comparable to the console versions. For example, RAGE by id studios, is supposedly going to look the same on PC as it does on consoles. Every version will maintain parity. Clearly, if the game had only been on PC, the id devs could have made the graphics a lot better.

[StrboyM]

that FPS demo the were shoing in the video, Looks better than Halo RRODST...hahahha

[SpartanZero]

Apocolps3 is right. The cpu in 360 and ps3 is fairly equal when the 360 utilises vmx. The innovated GPU in the 360 Xenos is what gives the edge in graphics in multplatform titles. The unified shader archeticture easily counters the faster clock speed of the RSX.
http://play.tm/news/6095/at...
http://interviews.teamxbox....

[talltony]

"despite better specifications on paper, the PS3 will be beaten graphically by the Xbox 360 in the upcoming next-gen console war."

Well when this was written it was before killzone 2 amongst other games were even out. Now what have we seen on 360 even with its year head start to prove this point? NOTHING! THE Proof Is in the PUDDING! Let the games speak and by games I mean SONY'S EXCLUSIVE GAMES!

[JBaby343]

I'll wait for your list of games that proves your point. Otherwise you argument doesn't even hold up "on paper".

[CobraKai]

I'd like to see real weight for people simulated better. Some racing games and GTA4 had great weight simulation to the cars. But a game that involves falling humans, still has them feeling a little too light.

[click 2 get virus]

oh my god so what halo 3 sold 10 million

[zainkool]

Power of the PS3 ever expanding because of the cell processor

[thorstein]

The Xbot Hate. Bring it on!

[sak500]

comparing unchartered to crysis.. wtf are u droids smoking. crysis is open world with full physics and destructable env and unchartered is a maletombraider clone with gears of war like narrow path. You b!tches can't see the ps3 as a gimped console even if sony put atari 2600 and showed it off as a ps3 you'd still blindly defend it as its grown from ur dad's testis.

[talltony]

Bla blah blah. And uncharted 2 still looks more amazing than anything on 360 and almost every single pc game as well. So u think I'm crazy for thinking u2 looks amazing dnt ya? Please dnt put gears of war in the same sentence as uncharted cause their was already a comparison and it didn't end well wit gears 2's blurred out textures and terrible 2d fire affects. Also why the hell would ps3 fans feel gimped wit amazing exclusives coming out? 360 fans are the ones that should feel gimped wit nothing but dlc to look forward to.

[OhMyGandhi]

don't get me wrong, this looks great, and is a nice way to get developers to incorporate such methods into their games.

It's just some games take for granted their physics to the point where it looks downright ridiculous, like I remember the chairs in FEAR that would topple 20 feet in one direction after I accidently ran into them.

or whatever physics Halo 3 was using looked just hysterical, bodies twitching or getting stuck and whatnot.