PS5 Pro: Why Sony Aren't Learning From Their Victories

Power Up Gaming takes a look at whether the rumored PlayStation 5 Pro is a naive move from Sony and whether they can learn from their own victories.

[RupeeHoarder]

Hoopla about nothing. Consumer choice doesn't hurt anyone. Even if games aren't specifically built for the Pro - they still show advancements in frame rate etc. This has been going on for some time in other ways - e.g. Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak, Sega 32X.

[Eonjay]

And it is commonplace on PC. On PC you don't hear people complain about having multiple choices for building a PC. Thats just not a thing. People are trying to invent an issue exclusive to Sony. Something that doesn't apply to anyone else.

[Neonridr]

PCs are open systems. You have the freedom to mix and match parts. You don't have to buy an entirely new PC every few years, you can simply upgrade a component or two.

[FACTUAL evidence]

@Neonridr
But the price for optimal parts are damn near or not more than a console. Who’s the real winner? Most people’s PC struggle trying to play on advanced settings, while for 500$ you get to plug and play without worries.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I'm still using a 7 year old PC and can game comfortable at 1440p 90fps, I'm waiting for socket AM6 to come, then I'll upgrade. If you build the best PC you can afford at the time, you can easily use it for years with minimal upgrades. People always think you need to upgrade a PC every 2 years, my PC still trades blows with a PS5 as it is.

When you consider the longevity and the wide variety of games, plus Steam sales, I think PC is pretty good value, now if only graphics cards would return to a sane price.

[_SilverHawk_]

The ps4 and ps5 were unnecessary because the ps3 and xbox 360 are sufficient for current games. Hopefully the ps5 and xbox series x last for the next 20 years. I think these gaming companies are being greedy releasing new consoles and forcing consumers to upgrade.

[RupeeHoarder]

exactly

[mkis007]

Neon

When you upgrade a pc gpu you spend as much as a console on it...and most people buy gpu's more often than new consoles.

[fr0sty]

Sony: Releases PS4, then PS4 Pro, goes on to become one of the best selling consoles in history.
Sony: Releases PS5, then PS5 Pro...
Gaming Media: "Sony aren't learning from their victories!!!"

[darthv72]

32x is a bad example as it did not do anything for existing Genesis/MD games. Absolutely nothing in regards to performance or visual enhancements.

A better example is the SuperGrafx. That did enhance a couple of regular PC Engine games as well as play it's own specific titles.

[Profchaos]

The 32x didn't do anything for genisis/ md games sure but it was never meant to.

Instead the 32x could render 160,000 flat shaded polygons per second vs the super FX chip which could push around 4,000 and for more perspective the 3do was capable of 50,000 so on paper the 32x was more superior than the at the time most power system on the market 3d0 and Jag remember it's before the PS1 launched and technically just before the Saturn.

The 32x was extremely capable but flawed and bottlenecked with a poor architecture essentially half of a Saturn.

For 32x titles the increase was significant over the base genisis however it realied on the devs to get the most out of it and we'll the market spoke loud and clear the add on flopped devs ignored it the rest is history

[darthv72]

@Prof... please go read what the initial comment said. Here I will share the specific quote I was referring to: "Even if games aren't specifically built for the Pro - they still show advancements in frame rate etc. This has been going on for some time in other ways - e.g. Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak, Sega 32X."

The initial comment is under the impression that simply having a 32x attached it made the non 32x games better when that is absolutely not the case. And why I said to use the Supergrafx as a better example because that one DID enhance even non supergrafx games.

so your explanation was completely unnecessary as it pertains to the initial comment or my reply to that comment. Try to pay attention next time. It will save you the trouble.

[RupeeHoarder]

Darth.... "The initial comment is under the impression that simply having a 32x attached it made the non 32x games better when that is absolutely not the case. And why I said to use the Supergrafx as a better example because that one DID enhance even non supergrafx games."

No the initial comment (by me) was stating that hardware add-ons have been a thing for some time and the key words are "in other ways". I didn't specifically say it was the same means but there have been marketing ploys by companies for hardware improvements for decades. This is not new to Sony - It's just new in the sense that it is an entirely new console unit as opposed to an add-on. Again, the 32X was optional as is the PS5 Pro....which is my point. Nobody had to buy either of these things - the only difference being games for 32X were sold as separate from genesis titles where now they can tag a "enhanced for PS5 Pro" on the box because the architecture is so unified nowadays.

[ocelot07]

@Neonridr

That is very true. I 100% agree.

However on the flipside. It all depends on the upgrades. Need a new CPU? it could be a fairly cheap upgrade. Got a Ryzen 3600? Ryzen 5600x costs about £140. Sell the 3600 for £50 so works out a £90 upgrade for a 15-20% faster CPU not expensive.

But what if I want to go AM5? So I then have 5-6 years of upgrade options available to me. That means I got to buy a new motherboard for £80+. Then a Ryzen 7600 CPU that's another £180 then another £60 for 16gb ddr5 ram.

The major upgrades to any gaming pc is the GPU. I currently have a rtx 2080ti. It's great for 1440p gaming. Let's say I want to upgrade that what's the best upgrade if I want to stick with Nvidia? Pointless even thinking about a 4060 or a 4070. Maybe a 4070 ti? That's a £700 card. Even if I sell my rtx 2080ti I'm still looking at a £500 cost to upgrade.

At least with the ps5 and ps5 pro. Let's say the ps5 pro costs £599. I can at least get £300 for my ps5 slim. £300 to upgrade is a fair bit of money. But it will do me well until the ps6 3-4 years later.

[darthv72]

@Rupee... to your reply to me... a 5Pro may be optional because games will still focus on the base 5 first and foremost. But the 32X was not optional when it came to its own games. Its an option to add to a genesis... but it had its own games and in order to play those games then it is now a requirement.

Notice i didnt say anything about the N64, because you were correct in that example. The ram expansion may have been a requirement for a select few, but it being optional for other games made them better for it. Increasing resolution and adding features that otherwise the non ram expansion N64 would still have been able to play (san the benefits). I feel you are missing what i am saying about the 32x and supergrafx. I was simply correcting your mistake. you had the right idea but the wrong example. whereby your comment is about options that people can choose and in doing so can also benefit from them whereas others are not required to do the same.

Hence why i said supergrafx would be a better choice than 32x because not only did the SG have its own handful of games, it offered improvements on regular games as well. something the N64 ram expansion also did... but the 32x did not. It was strictly its own thing and a requirement for those who wanted to play the 32x games. And just like that, a 4Pro and 5Pro are akin to the approach of it improves on what people have if they want to take part but not a requirement.

Maybe using the SG is beyond the scope of current gamers as they likely have no idea what the SG (or even PCE) was at the time. To understand the present, its good to look to the past as inspiration for the future.

[kryteris]

Some of us like the idea of raytracing, or a better VR experience.

[Flakegriffin]

“Why Sony aren’t learning from their victories”

Yeah, it’s not like they’ve been outselling or outpacing their own sales but hey, what do they know.

[senorfartcushion]

The Pro was apparently disappointing to the heads of Sony.

[VersusDMC]

Sony says it sold way ahead of expectations....

https://www.pushsquare.com/...

Sony says it sold more than the PS4 Slim...

https://www.gamespot.com/ar...

Where do you get your info?
I just googled ps4 pro dissapointing sales and that's what i got.

[Flakegriffin]

@senorfartcushion

Having higher expectation than reality doesn’t equal that it’s not outpacing their previous sales.

It’s them generating a number of what they expect it to sell. When they don’t hit that number they get “disappointed”.

[mkis007]

If your uncited statement were true they wouldn't be making another one.

[senorfartcushion]

They would be.

Game companies are addicted to following failures.

[Flakegriffin]

@senor

I don’t think the way Microsoft works means everyone else does it too 😉

[VersusDMC]

It is a move they did in the ps4 generation with the PS4pro. It worked out for them then so why not do it again? And the PS4 pro came out 3 years after the PS4 so it is taking an extra year for the PS5 pro.

The only discussion should be about what it ends up costing and not whether it should exist. We have series s, Switch minis, Switch OLED so who cares about a new PS5pro?

[BrettAwesome]

I do

[Ironmike]

Ps4 pro was a very small share of the ps4 market it was niche condole for tech junkies I wasn't blown away by it tbh and I bought it with the fancy pattern on fir the last of us part 2

[senorfartcushion]

It didn't work that well apparently

[VersusDMC]

They sold 14 million by 2020 so I'm guessing that was enough to make another. It outsold the series X if the series X really is 25% of the total series sales...

[Ironmike]

Because the pro did not work out well for them it accounted for 26 % of ps4 user base and that's lifetime sales by way it was not a successful as sony hoped considering g ps4 it over 100mill Mark its pretty poor

[VersusDMC]

Sony said it sold above expectations and outsold the PS4 slim. That's why they are doing it again.

https://www.gamespot.com/ar...

The expectation that a pro version is only successful if every base console buyer upgrades is idiotic...by your logic Switch OLED is a failure in Japan as it's only 28% of switch sales there?

[DarXyde]

Imagine thinking that iterative hardware accounting for 1 in 4 sales is "small".

If PS4 didn't sell well, you might have a point. But it did, and that's an outstanding number.

[darthv72]

@DMC... you are conflating things. The Pro outsold the slim when it initially released but it did not continue to outsell the slim overall. Not by a long shot. The ratio of Pro to slim is something like 25%-28%. By comparison, the One X sold something like 35% to the One S.

[DarXyde]

As a proportion of Xbox sales though. 80% of 10 total is smaller than 30% of 30.

Let's set that aside for a moment though. What that says, to me, is that PlayStation users are less concerned with the bells and whistles approach to modern gaming. I remember the Xbox One. Frankly, I think that was the only appeal of the Xbox One X: multiplats run better. It was still a very forgettable console. There was less of a perceived need to upgrade PS4, it seems.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

I care about PS5 Pro and I don't know what series S or switch has to do with it.

[Aussiesummer]

I'll just trade in my ps5 and upgrade, won't cost much.

[Ironmike]

Iam not sure about yhe Pro judging from what I read it's not that big of jump I got stung ps4 pro so I hold off see what difference it makes but iam happy with my ps5 at moment

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I think this article is a nothing burger, it won't create a Series S/X issue, it'll be more akin to what the PS4/PS4 Pro was, provide people with better performance at higher frame rates. I'm not saying you'll get 4K 120fps with all the bells and whistles, but it'll at least be a smoother experience. Having said that, I don't think it'll be worth upgrading from a PS5 if you already own one.

[Ironmike]

Well put mt that's my thoughts to

[derek]

Its an option, why is there all this hoopla over this. Nobody is being forced to buy a pro model.

[gigoran8]

Remember all the stink they kicked up when the xbox one x came out? Oh, they didn't? So it's "take a swipe at the leading console" time. got it.

[DivineHand125]

I believe the reason the PS5 Pro is a thing is because, since the start of the current generation, gamers are used to games offering a 60 FPS mode. Now that we are in the 4th year of the current generation, we are starting to see more games released at 30 fps.

Before I used to think to myself that there is very little incentive to invest in a gaming PC because you can get a 4k 60 FPS experience on PS5 and Xbox series x.

Many gamers like myself now find gaming at 30 FPS uncomfortable and if the PS5 Pro can at least guarantee a 40 to 60 FPS experience, then I won't have to stop gaming on PlayStation in favor of a PC.

[Ironmike]

But ur definitely not going get 60 fps on unreal 5 these beefy pc can't do that what chance has the pro

[Marz]

they spend too much money on silly endeavors, then they layoff their talent

[Deathdeliverer]

I’ll tell you exactly what Sony learned. If they make it, I’ll buy it. My PS5 goes in the bedroom and my PS5P will go in the living room. At this point it’s the circle of life. I never did the “a smaller version is coming out” stuff. I always kept my OGs. But when pro versions appeared, I jumped in. For PlayStations. I always just kept my OG of everything else. (Nintendos/Xboxes)

[gold_drake]

having options is always good

[darthv72]

Funny... when people are told the same with Series S|X, it comes across differently.

[darthv72]

^^SS is less powerful in the TF number but overall it is more powerful than the One X. It has the better CPU, GPU, Memory, Storage performance. Where people often say the One X was better is in regards to it having 12gb of memory vs 10gb, but it was also slower memory. 12gb of slower memory is still more memory storage than 10gb of faster... unless the games are optimized to swap in/out from memory using the SSD as a buffer.

As far as the game development goes, the SS is literally the minimum spec listing you would see on a PC game back in the day. That doesnt mean devs specifically catered to it, it just means it was the lowest they could set things to get it to run. Development always aims for the best it can first, then they work down to what is still considered acceptable.

[mkis007]

poor example

having a last gen baseline vs having a next current gen baseline. the pro is the extra , just like the series x was forced to be. I can absolutely guarantee you that had the s not existed, there would be a more impressive, game on x.

[gold_drake]

series s was a downgrade option.

this is a upgrade.

[BrettAwesome]

Because the Series S sucks

[Psychonaut85]

I think there may also be the thought of people like myself. So Sony will sell me a Pro, and I sell my PS5 to one of my buddies who doesn’t have one for pretty cheap. Which introduces another player into their ecosystem.

[Ironmike]

Verusdmc don't tell my logic it was not successful fact dony would never admit it it's sales alone show it was not successful and by ur logic it was a successful cos slim sales idiot ur just saying the same as me but twisting it to suite ur narrative u found one article from 2017 stating it sold more I suggest u look harder because the sales were ps4 was selling 4 to 1 against pro

[Petebloodyonion]

I'm not too fond of the idea of the PS5 Pro at this moment but I believe it's a great corporate move from Sony that will benefit them In lots of ways.

For one it forces MS into a lose/lose situation with Xbox Serie S for they can drop the parity clause and create frustration amongst Serie S owners or stick with Serie S and risk 3rd party studios dropping Xbox completely.

2) It helps Sony push their digital-only plans
Don't expect the Pro to come with the disk drive bundled it but as the diskless version.
You will still have the possibility to buy the " separate" disk drive or as Sony will probably put it use your actual removable drive.

[purple101]

I’m kind of hoping they allow you to buy the physical game on disk, plop it in your OG PS5, thus proving you own it, then they allow you to download it to the pro, as long as same account: same house whatever

It’s an idea

[Petebloodyonion]

You will still have the ability to install the disk drive the same way the current PS5 is sold I just expect that Sony won't bundle the drive in the package and you will have to buy it separately (like the digital model).

[darthv72]

ownership verification... that is something that has been in the rumormill for quite some time. I remember when it was toyed with for PSP UMD games and getting digital versions for the PSP Go / Vita. And more recently Ms was looking into it for XBO games where people bought the Series S instead of the X. obviously their big push is game pass, which does work to an extent but if they can validate a disc i have in my XBO and let me install a digital version to the Series S would be much more convenient.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Only in the console space will you see so much crying about optional hardware upgrades instead of waiting 6,7,8 years for it. This is so tired.

[TheEroica]

Sony had an expectation to continue a line of revenue from mid Gen refreshes whether it was good for gamers or not. . They know they have weak minded fans who will double dip and despite not being able to deliver games that require the added purchase many will not care....

[BrettAwesome]

Yes. Poor us. Lucky for you, you get both an inferior machine and a hand held.

[ROCKY28]

I will just wait for the PS6 as it will need to come quick - as Xbox is gearing up for their powerful new console

[BrettAwesome]

But aren't they always?

[shinoff2183]

If you don't want it don't buy it. That's on you. 1st ps5s will play all the same games. Hating just to hate.

[mastershredder]

"PlayStation 5 Pro is a naive move from Sony and whether they can learn from their own victories."

Hey Bozo, it's called an option. You don't have to buy this. Did you learn from your own personal victories yet?

[Elda]

My option to buy on day one when it releases.

[46player]

Good English Why Sony Isn’t Learning from their victories.

Sony is a singular entity.

[raWfodog]

An electronics manufacturer wants to manufacture and sell electronics. Sounds about right to me.

[FlameWater]

I don't want my plastic box to be inferior to the new plastic box.

[DaniMacYo]

Why the negativity from media outlets about the pro we haven’t even seen yet? PlayStation is a business and they want to sell customers gaming hardware and products then let them. If come holiday season a new Pro is released or announced then customers will go wild and be happy for something new to get their hands on.

People get excited for new and shiny things for Christmas period. Stop acting like this will be a failure or some negative thing for the gaming industry. Sounds like a bunch of scared MS supporters. Oh we have the most powerful console. We want to keep that title. That seems to be the only thing Xbox is good at power. They can’t seem to make any decent games.

[anast]

Sony is the only one evolving and learning.