Valve Is Being Sued Over Steam Monopoly Accusations

The Epic Games vs. Apple lawsuit is impacting the gaming industry dramatically.

[darthv72]

If they keep this up, nobody is going to be safe from being outed by Epic. I feel they will come after me for sharing the Unreal demo back when I was in school.

[Petebloodyonion]

Actually, this wasn't out by Epic but a completely different lawsuit made by the Humble bundle creator explaining how is basically controlling the PC market regarding storefront.
Thus having Valve dictate terms for the whole pc industry.

[lodossrage]

@Petebloodyonion

I see your point with that. But in a way I can't be mad at Valve for that.

We have to understand something. Back when PC games were still using license keys and they were getting pirated left and right, almost every company literally gave up on PC gaming. Valve for a very long time were literally by themselves keeping pc gaming afloat. For the most part, them dictating the terms of PC gaming isn't a result of a monopoly per se. But rather them being the ONLY ones trying to keep pc gaming alive.

It's not like they bought out a bunch of other pc companies. Everyone left and Valve was the only game in town.

[Amplitude]

Well maybe somebody else should make a storefront/launcher that isn't absolute barebones trash lol

I'd pay a bloody yearly subscription for the steam features if they needed. Hell I'd pay money for the controller configurator alone (there's nothing quite as ridiculously useful and easy to use on PC for controllers) and yet everything on Steam is just free.

[kneon]

Even if steam had a monopoly, they would only really get into trouble if they were using their position to impede competition.

[Christopher]

We got 'em! You should be hearing police sirens soon, darth

[darthv72]

If Im going down... we're all going down. Come and get me coppah!!

[TheEnigma313]

Book em Danno

[lodossrage]

You know Epic is going to find themselves without a friend in the world as a result of this fight. And to think, this whole mess started solely because they wanted to circumvent Apple's terms by cutting Apple out on the Fornite microtransaction money..

I know Epic is funded by Tencent with 40% of the shares, But let's be real here. They already forced out internal secrets of both Sony and Microsoft. So unless they out Nintendo in some way, there goes Epic's future in the console space.

Then they're constantly attacking Valve, even bringing them into this lawsuit WHILE actively competing with Steam. So if Epic Game Store fails (which is likely without that fornite money), they can find themselves on the outs with the biggest PC store front.

Next there's Google, who Epic outed two days ago, publicly saying how Google's all put given up on Stadia. In turn, the same fight Epic is having with Apple, they can end up having with Google. And since Google own's Android, you can imagine how that could hurt Epic.

Not to mention how devs can see who got paid for what free games, which can create a barter's market because they can see what their peers are getting from Epic.

All in all, Epic can find themselves on an island all by themselves with the entire industry shutting them out, All because they want every bit of Fornite's revenue even thought they're operating on other companies stores and platforms.

Feel free to disagree. This is all my opinion.

[Petebloodyonion]

The real question is what does Epic wants in the end? do they really want to make money from a store like Epic Games store or they are just trying to pressure the government into forcing huge companies into reducing royalties fees and thus make more money from MTS?

[lodossrage]

Personally, I think it's what you said about forcing as many fees away as possible. That way they can maximize fortnite. When you think about it, every move they make is screaming exactly that.

Outing that Sony makes ppl pay for crossplay.
Outing that they were pushing for Microsoft to take free 2 play out from behind the paywall
Trying to circumvent Apple's Store.

I'm just a guy on the internet so of course I don't know much of anything. But there HAS to be some method to this madness they're pulling. Because this kind of thing can REALLY backfire on them.

[Petebloodyonion]

"I see your point with that. But in a way I can't be mad at Valve for that.

We have to understand something. Back when ..."

I agree with you and it's why I'm torn on the subject just like with Sony's PSN Lawsuit
on one hand, Valve (like Sony, MS, Apple) did take the financial risk into creating Steam platform, they have invested and perfected a robust ecosystem. I feel it's quite normal that they reap the reward the same way Netflix, Amazon, and others do.

On the other hand, we are slowly but surely going toward an all-digital market so is it normal that we have only one major option as a consumer? Do I really want Steam to be like Facebook and decide what I should play or pay?

[lodossrage]

@Petebloodyonion

No we don't want any one entity to be super dominant over the others.

But these other mega companies have to take responsibility for themselves. Again, nobody told them not to compete. The responsibility falls upon them to catch up.

Instead of putting in the work to make their product(s) better, they'd rather whine and cry about the "monopoly" that they all literally did nothing to compete with for almost 16 + years.

They can't cry about one single company being unchallenged on the market for many years and then cry about them having an advantage when they actively chose to allow that to happen.

[TheProfessional]

THIS is the kind of company that people have been so loyal to? All those comments trashing epic just for giving games away and doing the same store exclusively stuff that valve has done too?

I honestly could never understand why anyone would defend corporate scum like gabe newell who taxes developers 30 percent and literally stopped making new games as soon as Steam became successful. All the stuff about steam having a monopoly is clearly true.

But hey the epic games store doesn't have user reviews so steam is clearly the best!

[CDbiggen]

Well why doesn't it?

[MadLad]

Epic is legitimately walling off titles so you have to use their store. That's 100% known fact.
This lawsuit basically breaks down to "Steam got really popular, and now owns the majority of the market".

Keep in mind they were the only ones doing what they were at a time it looked like PC gaming was on its deathbed.

If the lawsuit turns out true and Valve actively threatens publishers/devs to not work with Humble, that's crappy. It's not something I necessarily believe, however.
I've seen titles from virtually every publisher had within the sales and subscriptions had on Humble. Almost every month they're offering big name titles, so I don't see how that one really holds up if there's direct evidence to the contrary.
If anything, if Valve is trying to scare people away from the storefront, it's not exactly working, thus no real monetary damages are happening. They're also using Steam keys, thus Steam is seeing a cut either way.

[Vegamyster]

Valve has never paid developers to make 3rd party games only available on there platform and they've never tried to weaponize their install bases with an ad campaign in a law suit. Steam used the money they made to develop there store, it by far the most feature rich platform available that's 100% free for the user to enjoy while Epic is dumping money into exclusive deals/free games while their platform is slow, buggy and dated.

Do you honestly think Epic cares? They bought the Rocket League developers and made it exclusive, since then have ruined the economy of the game that was player driven with tradeable crates/keys, you're forced to pay good chunks of money to them for good skins, before you at least had a chance at good random skins or trading earned crates to other players for what you want.

Also Valve is not a monopoly, they just doing what they've always done and just happen to be popular because they've made a great launcher that's been around for a long time, Epic are the ones trying to create one with paid exclusives. 30% is industry standard which includes Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo on top of Apple, Google and others, you think its unfair but it costs these companies hundreds of millions or billions developing there stores and hardware to benefit the consumer.

[Christopher]

This won't fly. Steam, GOG, Epic, UPlay, etc. All those others have to do is offer their own CDKeys in the same manner.

[Petebloodyonion]

Yes and no,
One of the problems mentioned is that Valve is bullying companies when publishers dealing with other storefronts making sure that they can't sell the game at a cheaper price.
So what's the incentive to buy the game on another platform if it's available on Steam?
And seeing EpicGameStore losing tons of money into trying to make a dent in Valve's market or Microsoft selling PC titles on Steam shows that Valve does control the PC gaming industry for the moment.
https://arstechnica.com/gam...

[MadLad]

It doesn't seem like the case, to me. I'm always finding better deals on the other stores vs Steam.
If nothing else, the stores tend to be offering the same deals on the same games at the same time.
And if the current lawsuits haven't made clear, Epic is doing nothing more than what they feel they need to to corner the market, and bend it to their own will.

[Christopher]

One month of sales data on GOG will prove this to be false.

[got_dam]

Epic had that stupid 1984 ripoff free fortnight video locked and loaded before Apple even acted. They new exactly what they were doing and how Apple was going to respond. Epic knowingly violated their contract and planned to make themselves look like the victim. I hope they burn. I agree that all these other companies need to give more money to the devs. Sony should not charge for crossplay.... but epic is only out to try and be the next steam. They don't care about devs or consumers, and all this pro dev/consumer shit they do will only last as long as it takes to snuff out competition.

[SavageFlamingo]

Yeah, Epic is scum. They knew exactly what they were signing up for when they submitted their “games”.

[Darkborn]

Exactly that video was released like an hour after they violated the contract. It means they can't claim negligence at all, they clearly knew what they were doing.

[Rachel_Alucard]

The law firm they are using is the exact same as Epic. I think this law firm knows they don't have a case and is just trying to squeeze money out of these fools. God forbid anyone try to be successful without resorting to anti competitive tactics otherwise you'll just get sued for people preferring to use your service over everyone else.

[Extermin8or3_]

Are they the same firm as with the case against Sony and psn store?

[Rachel_Alucard]

No that one is Westerman Law Corp. The Plaintiff is Agustin Caccuri being represented by Jeff S Westerman.

Cravath, Swaine & Moore is doing this and the Epic v Apple case.

[XxINFERNUSxX]

GOG FTW, no DRM either 😀 All these billionaires are greedy fucks, should be purged from society.

[MadLad]

GoG is a great storefront, but it's the same people who head CDPR; and the more and more information comes out, the more obvious it is they aren't exactly the image of selflessness either.

[Father__Merrin]

Why are some happy with just valve dictating the scene why not others also

[lodossrage]

Nobody is "happy" with anyone dictating anything.

Most people just know Valve isn't a monopoly by force. They're have such a hold because for YEARS nobody else even bothered to keep the PC gaming landscape alive expect for them.

Nobody told other companies to not compete. But instead everyone gave up once their license keys were being pirated instead of trying to find a solution. Thus Valve were the ONLY ones in town. It's not Valve's fault nobody else was around to compete. They didn't buy out other companies from doing so.

We want Valve to have competition. But nobody can be mad at them being so far ahead of everyone else when NOBODY else cared to compete in the space by their OWN choice.

[Knightofelemia]

I wonder how long before GOG and Nintendo get thrown into the fire as well.

[Deathdeliverer]

This is all literally about Fortnite. Epic is making money hand over fist and wants even more. Because Fortnite did so well Epic thought they could force people to play ball. It’s got nothing to do with cross play. Nothing to do with user friendly crap. It’s all because epic wants more money from the sales on other people’s stores. Microsoft and epic colluded to make it about crossplay so that it would look like they just wanted to be there for the players. The only reason Sony didn’t allow it is because fortnite uses the PS store (and therefore Sony gets a cut like everyone does on sales from their stores) and playstations user base. Epic wants to cut people out of the money on sales in THEIR stores. Exact same problem they have with steam, and Apple. They just took it a step farther with Sony because they wanted to mobilize the mindless gamers to cry for something insignificant like cross play. To create a villainy look. Sony allowed cross play with a caveat and epic STILL had to play ball because it’s the biggest console platform and the biggest fortnite user base.
In short, again, it’s all about greed from epic, fortnite giving them steel balls, and Sony, Apple, and others saying screw your game.

[Extermin8or3_]

This is ridiculous. Do there's a lawsuit against Sony for psn store and valve over steam.... where is the lawsuit against Microsoft over the xbox games store on xbox...??

[MadLad]

If you'd read the article, and look into the topic a bit, you'd know why.

[DaniMacYo]

Noice

[Dixiedevil]

Popularity doesn’t make a monopoly. Are they actively trying to prevent other companies from doing business or buying up competition? I haven’t heard of it.

[Ryzza5]

I don't see a problem with Steam here - they may have a monopoly, but I don't feel locked in with them. When new games are released I can often choose whether or not to purchase them on Steam. I often do because games end up being cheaper there (on sale) and to keep most of my collection together (less of an issue now with the GOG Galaxy 2.0 launcher). However, if I suddenly disliked Steam, I have the choice to purchase PC games elsewhere for the most part. Windows Store, Epic Store, Good Old Games, Humble Bundle, EA/Origin, UPlay, etc. The grey market of cheap Steam keys ironically helps keep Steam popular/cheap - if Steam behaved anti-competitively this grey market could be more easily stopped I suspect.

Sony PSN is a harder one to judge. I was led to believe they were required to sell digital games for higher prices in order for retail stores to agree to sell their consoles. At the same time I'm amazed to see so many gamers stand up for Sony... don't you all want cheaper games? Do you ever wonder how PC games are still able to enjoy multiplayer features for free while console players keep paying for their 'free' 2 games per month?

Apple's arguments v. Epic seem weak to me. A smartphone is not a specialized device like a game console. Where Apple clearly steps over the line for me is forcing ALL in-app purchases to be via Apple's gateway. The alternative is that each developer can choose whichever payment gateway works best for them and can be chosen based on cost or ease of development (i.e. BrainTree comes to mind). Apple has prevented this source of competition. Developers who want to sell on IOS devices do not have anywhere else to go to keep Apple honest and competitive - this is the problem Epic is describing. If someone dislikes the Windows Store or Google Play Store, they CAN go elsewhere and still reach those devices.

When reflecting on Microsoft being fined by the EU simply for including their own web browser as default in their own operating system (I never understood why this was a problem) it seems unlikely that Apple will be able to continue in their current practices.