640°

Could Sony secure PS5 exclusivity for an AMD Navi APU?

AMD CEO, Dr. Lisa Su, has once more been talking about the work its semi-custom division has been doing with Sony to get the Zen 2 processors, and the upcoming AMD Navi silicon, working for the needs of the PS5.

But just how much influence has Sony had on AMD’s next-gen graphics architecture? And if the answer is ‘a lot’ does that mean it has any call on hardware exclusivity, potentially shutting Microsoft out of a Navi-based APU?

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UltraNova1853d ago (Edited 1853d ago )

The answer is no. Only custom design choices build around Navi will be console "exclusive", the GPU architecture wont and both will come equipped with a Navi/ Ryzen SoC.

1853d ago
Zeke681852d ago

I don't know anything like the rest here on N4G but as 99% off this article is now proven a fact by Mark Cerny and the latest reports from AMD:
https://www.google.com/amp/...

What say the statement "Which brings us to, in my eyes, the more interesting revelation. According to my sources, Navi isn’t just inside the Sony PS5; it was created for Sony" isn't true? I just want to throw that into the discussion.
So your firm no might be wrong, I think it could very well be a Sony console exclusive and "normal" Navi for PC.
I base that on that rumour about 1-2 years ago that Sony pushed in 6-800 millions of dollars into the Navi development. Could just be their "special sauce" but it seems unlikely.
Exciting times anyway. I guess we have to keep on guessing for a little while longer.

sprinterboy1852d ago

The custom navi chipset was designed for Sony not navi, just like Microsoft will have a custom built navi chipset from AMD

Zeke681852d ago

Could very well be true, but even if so, it will be interesting to see the difference and if Phil spencer gonna have to eat crow on his promise "always have the best hardware from now on".
For me personally nothing of that really matters. I have already pre-ordered a PS5 that will ship on the EU release day. I know Sony delivers, they have made me a happy customer since my first PS1 back at 1996.

UltraNova1852d ago

You did not realize that you basically agreed with me. What's stopping MS from equipping their next xbox with an off the shelf but custom "Normal PC" Navi GPU?

bouzebbal1852d ago

Don't care, as long as I get console exclusive games

OB1Biker1852d ago (Edited 1852d ago )

That old rumour was misleading though. First thing I thought at the time is the guy is talking about playstation because thats the info he knows about. There was nothing saying Ms wasnt doing something similar with a custom chip based on Navi too.

Tigerblud1851d ago

How do you already have the PS5 pre ordered?

nismo3701851d ago (Edited 1851d ago )

"I have already pre-ordered a PS5 "
😂😂😂

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1851d ago
Ju1851d ago

It amazes me that despite 0 news on what MS does, the peoples of the internet know exactly what MS will be doing. Obviously the "Me too" rumors after every Sony "news" must carry more wait then the rumors itself.

First, MS did a full custom design "inhouse" with the XBOX, their chip has some severe extensions on the CPU side of things. But the GPU is off the shelve. To suggest MS going with a Navi/Zen APU is just speculation.

Second, the PS5 chip might not be a pure APU. By the looks of it, it won't. It will most likely have a 16GB DDR + 8GB HBM in what I'd call a hybrid configuration (under one memory controller). Same what the Pro already does with an added 1GB DDR. While not much talked about, this is the most feasible explanation how Sony gets to 24GB of memory and how they address bandwidth limitations in there current APU design. That might well be that "special sauce" if anything at all.

It is very interesting, that Navi has not been mentioned outside of Sony's endeavor. Even Google's stadia is using a stock 13Tf Vegas GPU. MS might not show anything at this E3, what then? They won't release anything before end of 2020, and might as well hold that big announcement back for next year. And who knows, might skip Navi, use some Vega cores or even go to the next iteration. First they have to sell XBOXs to at least recover some cost on that one. You can spin everything into any direction based on non-facts we have today.

NarutoFox1851d ago Show
cd11851d ago

I cant see PS5 having 24GB of RAM or using HBM2 - 16GB of GDDR6 sound more likely to me.

Shikoku1851d ago (Edited 1851d ago )

Or all of you and everyone on the internet is taking a phase used by AMD's CEO putting it n a context it was never meant and "special sauce" just means their games and how they produce awesome content.

Shane Kim1851d ago

No problem, just let me know if I can be of more service.

Profchaos1852d ago

Highly unlikely given how much money they would lose by not selling to both

Zeke681852d ago

Couldn't they just make another chip for M$?

blacktiger1852d ago

cause everything is cheap right :p, this is a billions of dollar research

GameBoyColor1852d ago

No there gpu division doesn't make much and they keep flopping on gpu releases. Making a whole new chip is out of the question, but if you are talking about modifying the current one that is exactly what they will be doing for both companies.

PhoenixUp1852d ago

What doesn’t AMD have to gain by going exclusive?

MajorLazer1852d ago

They won't gain more money for one

Ju1851d ago

Its all about money. Really depends who contributed to the bottom line the last couple of years...

PhoenixUp1851d ago

I meant to type “does” but spellcheck fucked up

Gridknac1852d ago

Well if Sony worked closely with AMD developing a special Navi variant just for the PS5, then possibly that specific variant would be exclusive. I don't think that it really matters though, as I would think MS will have its own blueprint for a customized version of the chip.

PhoenixUp1852d ago

Just like how Xbox 360’s Xenon had a chipset based on PlayStation 3’s Cell processor

babadivad1852d ago

IBM made the PPEs in the Cell(the main processor) and sold a tri-core variant ti Microsoft for their console.

Ju1851d ago

It was Sony contracting IBM to built that chip. Read this: https://www.amazon.com/Race...
And yet, IBM sold the same design to MS...money rules.

cabbitwithscissors1852d ago (Edited 1852d ago )

It does matter actually. One of the main reasons why IBM lost out for the PS4 architecture was due to the fact that they shared some of the technology derived from the Cell Processor Architecture (which was then used to come up with new technology that GPUs are today based on) to come up with the Xbox 360 Xenon architecture. Sony, Toshiba and IBM spent billions on coming up with that and Microsoft came along and took the results and sped up with the success that Xbox became until Sony took over the market after a number of years.

Rest assured that the new contract with AMD would have clauses protecting against these. No sharing of information and technology derived for the Playstation. Microsoft will have to come up with their own architecture basing on their best guess of what the PS5 would have, and they will have access to AMD's vault of technology, everything except what they are working with, with Sony.

HighPlayer281852d ago

U have any sources to back up that Microsoft took those cell processor results? I believe the engineers at Microsoft are more than capable of creating their own unique architecture with out stealing info from Sony.

Sitdown1852d ago

"Microsoft will have to come up with their own architecture basing on their best guess of what the PS5 would have"

My gosh, I hope you have stock in Sony. So Microsoft is sitting around designing their console based off what they believe the ps5 will be, instead of just making the best console that they want?

cabbitwithscissors1852d ago

@HighPlayer28 and @Sitdown :

Read the following:
https://venturebeat.com/200...

https://www.wsj.com/article...

You might want to get the book too if you're interested.

Ju1851d ago

That book was a actually a great read. We'll see if someone writes one for the next generation.

rainslacker1851d ago

Uhhh...how did you come to that conclusion? The CELL technologies can be licensed for use by any company through IBM. Sony benefits from these licenses because they paid for the investment to research and develop the CELL processor, but Sony doesn't outright own the technology.

Any technology developed specifically for either console maker, payed for by the console makers themselves, may not be allowed to be used in the other's chip, but that isn't related to CELL. There is no sharing of technology but any technology developed by AMD could be used independently if the console maker wants them. For the most part, these companies are both going to be in tune with what might be necessary for the next gen, and they will develop their chips to be pretty close to one another, maybe with focuses on some different available features. It's not guess work, it's research, because we're talking about companies that actually shape what is available for the next gen.

Ju1851d ago

@Rainslacker. Not true. IBM does not own the CELL, it does not own the SPUs. That was in fact brought in externally and there are PPE less SPUs variants available (I wonder if they live in Sony's X1 visual processor - but I don't know). So, no, IBM could not have licensed the CELL. But thety "sold" all the research STI did on the PPE - which was in fact a GHz race, because at that time, IBM did not have a PPU core which could scale to beyond 3GHz. They typically used their older G3 variant (e.g. in the Nintento's console) but this wasn't scalable to were Sony wanted it to be. So, that team developed a core running at 3.2GHz. There comes MS, with a bag of money, and IBM sold that design to MS. Because they did not own the SPUs, they simply made it a triple core PPU version.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1851d ago
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80°

Evercade Alpha Reveals Affordable Mini-Arcade

This looks fun and affordable for fans of Retro Cabinet games.
Introducing Evercade Alpha, the first Evercade-compatible arcade machine. This bartop-sized arcade gives you everything you want in a home arcade machine with one big feature - full compatibility with the Evercade cartridge ecosystem.

darthv721d 21h ago

I like the Mega Man one more as it has a better variety of games. Strider, Carrier Airwing, Final fight... The other is all SF. Plus i like that i can pop in any of my evercade carts to play as well.

Garethvk1d 21h ago

As long as it is durable; it's a deal.

300°

Sony Says The PS5 Is Its “Most Profitable Generation To-Date"

During Sony’s recent business segment meeting and investor presentation regarding its game and network services, the PlayStation company revealed that PlayStation 5 is the company’s “most profitable generation to-date.”

It’s the top slide of the presentation, showing that in its first four years, the PS5 generation has already hit $106 billion in sales, having almost caught up to the PS4’s total $107 billion generated.

Operating income for the PS5 generation has also already surpassed that of the PS4, having now reached $10 billion.

ApocalypseShadow2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I wouldn't doubt it. They released a high quality system. A lot of high quality games from themselves and their support of 3rd party developers and indies. They released many high quality remakes and remasters. They released a high quality GaaS game going against the naysayers thinking Sony would abandon single player games. And they most likely are profiting a lot more than PS1, PS2 PS4 and the loss leading PS3 that drained all their profits.

Now, I'll wait to see what's cooking tomorrow. But can you use some of those profits to better support your high quality VR headset? Because, by supporting it, you can sell more games and more systems and make more profits?

jznrpg2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I want RPGs for PSVR2! Good ones of course

shinoff21832d ago

If it had some rpgs I would buy right fking now. It looks dope and alot of fun, but it's biggest game resident evil 4(maybe) I've got no interest in. I'm not a fan of racing games, even with that metro game coming i was never much into that series. Rpgs would be fantastic.

MrNinosan2d ago

Lemme know if ya wanna play some Zenith 🙌
Bought it at release, but haven't played it more than 1-2 hours but for sure on my "todo list".

Cacabunga2d ago

Normal when they released mostly cross gen games so far. That’s a lot of money saved..
We haven’t seen what PS5 can do yet. 4years in and PS4 games still look great to me. The gen leap isn’t quite there yet.

--Onilink--2d ago

The interesting metric for me is the $106billion in operating income/profit (not sales as mentioned in the article) reaching the same as the PS4 did with only half the consoles sold.

In particular because they all are supposed to be making the most per hardware sold after a few years when manufacturing costs are down.

So even putting inflation aside(and the higher console price), it is interesting that they could reach PS4 $ with just half the consoles sold.

Maybe there is more to the metric thats whats seen at face value, but they have clearly been making a lot more money than before on the software side (with also less games released I suppose, given its only been half the generation so far)

VersusDMC2d ago

The bulk of the money has to be coming from the 30% cut on all games and microtransactions. Especially on all the free to play juggernauts like genshin, apex, fortnight, etc.

--Onilink--2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

@Versus

They are definitely making a lot on that for sure (which the $70 price increase factors into as well), but its not like many of those games werent around for the PS4 too.

They might be counting the gen as a whole and not just PS5 itself (so extra profit from PC sales, whatever that may be)

PS+ price increase and different tiers probably amount to part of that too.

But in general, its still quite a surprising metric. Half the time, half the consoles sold, less first party games released so far and still already making more of a profit than last gen is quite something, and as mentioned, there is probably more to it that we dont know, after all, since we are talking about operating income, all the expenses they have also factor into it, so it is also possible that they have found ways to significantly reduce that + all the means of increased revenue that appear to be factoring into the equation

All in all, just an interesting situation from a business perspective

porkChop2d ago

It's for the whole generation, so it would likely be including PC. They also make much more profit on digital sales vs retail, and digital is far more prominent these days. The generation also started at the height of COVID when everyone was home, spending far more money on gaming/hobbies. It makes a lot of sense for this gen to be more profitable.

Abnor_Mal2d ago

This will surely shut up all the new trolling accounts trying to spread lies and non facts in other articles comment sections before this article is posted.

Hofstaderman2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Obscurely, those trolls or troll will not show in these articles as the truth is contradictory to his or their orchard-sized daily dose of copium and hopium.

Tacoboto2d ago

Or... They're intentionally trolling you guys specifically. Because they know it upsets you so easily.

Name-dropping Orchard, after this many months? How long has it been and he's still in your thoughts?

Elda2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I'm quite sure the individual is reading these positive comments downvoting & seething at the same time. Edit: It just downvoted my comment...lol!!

Hofstaderman2d ago

No I'm entertained by this individual. I love unhinged people, they are so interesting lol.

repsahj2d ago

Wow! I am super impressed that in just 4 years, ps5 already caught up to the PS4's. Congratulations.

JackBNimble1d 15h ago

That happens when half of your games are cross platform. I'm still waiting to see what the ps5 is capable of, because they sure haven't pushed any limits.

And where are all these ps5 exclusive games?

sagapo2d ago

Not really surprised as Sony barely has any competition at the moment.

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80°

Zotac To Reveal Their Portable Gaming PC At COMPUTEX 2024

This sounds like a very interesting mobile gaming PC. ZOTAC returns to COMPUTEX 2024 to showcase its biggest push yet into brand-new product categories from Handheld Gaming.

smashman982d ago

My last 2 gpus have both been zotac. No issues. I'm interested.

Garethvk2d ago

It will be interesting to see what they have to offer