KingKionic 2623d ago (Edited 2623d ago )

Now we have to have a former Mass Effect animator do damage control for horrible animations. Dude has like over a dozen tweets.

What is done is done.

They failed. Its 2017 and games shouldn't be releasing looking as janky as Andromeda.

Its why we have competition in gaming fueled by capitalism. You show your best or go home and look at your failures to strategize to impress people next time around.

Thatguy-3102623d ago

Yea they just need to own up to it and learn from this experience to better there next game. What's done is done and giving excuses just makes the situation look worse.

2621d ago
Nitrowolf22622d ago (Edited 2622d ago )

Damage control???

The guy was just stating the process, and even went as far to say that quality animation is a requirement for AAA titles

What he States in his tweet isn't exactly defending BioWare. He stated that they lowered the algorithm that was seen in the past Mass Effect titles and the assumption is that they were going to hand drawn the animations to make them better but that didn't turn out happening, despite having a five-year time. He states that they chose to go with quantity over quality

Pantz2622d ago

BioWare's SJW campaign has failed.

bluefox7552621d ago

People keep saying "It's not damage control, it's an explanation!"
You can read between the lines. He didn't say "it's not their fault", but he kind of downplayed their role in it to be sure.

Nitrowolf22621d ago (Edited 2621d ago )

@bluefox

Really?

Sounds like he's more taking a jab at them but in a professional manner. Yes he does try to downplay it but, when he's using statements like they chose quantity over quality or how they lowered the algorithm to determine animation it seems to me that he's not trying to defend it and just pointing out the faults. I mean he goes into such details and even brings up examples of games that do it much better, is that what you called damage control?

Just because he's not tossing around the same words as a majority of people criticizing the game doesn't mean he's defending it, he's a game developer and all we've seen several times Developers taking things on professionally this was a professional response to the subject. He decided to take the high road here and not lash out at the developers with the same words that everyone else is giving them, and all he is clearly empathetic towards um in terms of tone, just from reading all of his tweets it's clear to see how he really feels

Pandamobile2622d ago

You're kinda missing the point, man :P

It's not damage control as much as it is an expert providing context for why it is the way that it is.

TheCommentator2622d ago

An expert who hasn't seen that most other open world games have both quantity and quality superior to Andromeda.

It's an excuse, and it's damage control, because he's defending his former coworkers.

rainslacker2621d ago

@TheCommentator

Except he has recognized other open world games do have both quality and quantity superior to Andromeda. In fact, he cites two of them in his tweets. In fact, he even mentions how one of those other open world games uses a similar technique to Andromeda, and how another more recent open world game did a better job using another technique. So, what are you on about?

It wasn't damage control, it was an explanation on why it was the way it was.

He offered up several critiques which seem to indicate that he believes Bioware dropped the ball, and the only apologetic tone seemed to be more one of empathy due to knowing just how daunting the task was that Bioware tried to undertake.

2622d ago
spicelicka2622d ago

Relax, he's not doing damage control. Looks like you didn't read.

A dozen tweets because twitter only allows limited characters you realize that right? His purpose was draw attention the fact that there's no one person/animator who's fault it is. Singling out one person and attacking him was stupid and unnecessary. He proves that by explaining the process of the animations in this game, they're all done by an algorithm, not by a person. Should have been refined by a person, but they rushed the game. He goes on to say that it IS Bioware's fault for underestimating the task and releasing early (no damage control here).

joethetimelord2622d ago

Read the tweets. He was on board that the animation was sub par and needed a lot of work, and proposed how they made the mistake. His only defensive remark was that this disaster wasn't the fault of one person alone.

rainslacker2621d ago

Did you even read it?

It was a pretty good technical explanation.

I don't think he was doing damage control, just explaining what happened. He wasn't apologizing for Bioware, just saying they underestimated the task, and ended up not actually completing the game the way they wanted to, and ended up releasing a game which had a baseline implementation likely used to get the ball rolling.

He's also not wrong saying that we only see the worst of the worst on YouTube or whatnot, although I will concede that he didn't bring up the fact that no matter what, people will experience these things in their own play through.

The_Sage2621d ago

Someone telling you how something works is not "damage control" Kionic. Did you read the post?

Aside from that, I have Andromeda, and it is great so far. I've not had any situations where the animation stood out as being bad. The characters do have strange lifeless eyes though, and fem Ryder is shockingly ugly. Thankfully you can fix the latter, as you customize both twins at the outset.

If you're a true Mass Effect fan, you're doing yourself a disservice by skipping Andromeda. If your not, then why the hell are you here?

joab7772621d ago

First, there was a lack of leadership in determining what should have been "touched first" or priority. Knowing about ME3 and EA Access should have denoted a priority that leaned heavily in the first 10 hrs. That said, if it couldn't be touched by hand, the minimum quality should have been raised. I dunno what type of cleanup there is for this, but oh well.

Yeah, it would be great to have mocap etc and hopefully they will use this for the next game or IP. We have to remember that this is a new team, new engine, gigantic project and all and all, is pretty damn good!

Maybe they can at least either go in by hand and fix some of the more important scenes now, or raise minimum requirements. We will see. But I MUST add that I am impressed and happy with so much that they did do right!!!

Aeery2619d ago (Edited 2619d ago )

Wtf i'm reading ?!
Kionic ... edit your post, it's embarrassing!

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2619d ago
Sciurus_vulgaris2623d ago

RPGs,unfortunately have less budget per character. However, for Andromeda it looks like the studio made a very small number of animation sets . The pre-made animations (which are likely for the male Ryder) are then applied to many, many different models. Additionally the pre-made animations are supplemented by procedural animations, which can look hit-and-miss.

AspiringProGenji2623d ago (Edited 2623d ago )

So in other words, they let the algorithm run wild doing the animations for them and didn't tweak or polish it afterwards. That explains Peebee shooting the gun backwards and some of the walking/running animations

Thanks For the insight. Yet more reasons to wait until they fix everything.

R6ex2621d ago

I'll play it this December then.

Nu2622d ago

Except I can't unsee this shits

bluefox7552622d ago

Nothing but damage control. He said "quality vs quantity tradeoff", which is nonsense, if that's the case, then how do you explain games like Witcher 3 or even previous ME games? Bioware dropped the ball, everyone knows it, and no amount of damage control is going to excuse that.

AZRoboto2622d ago

Calm down, Mr. Dramatic. He's not doing damage control, he's literally explaining how games like Witcher 3 and the previous ME games did it better exactly because the Bioware Montreal team deliberately lowered the bar for Andromeda, which he directly states.

DragonKnight2622d ago

It's kind of damage control if in one breath he explains they lowered the bar, but the entirety of the discussion seems like he's trying not to blame them.

_-EDMIX-_2621d ago

Agreed

@Drag-why does he have to blame them? I'm pretty positive he understands it was their responsibility in the blame lies upon them, he simply explaining what led to this.

So he had to bash them and send disrespectful comments or he was in support of them?

But it sounds to me like you're just salty and butt hurt that the team is not taking a nasty negative disrespectful stance on this is simply explaining what they believe possibly happened in a professional respectful manner.

Apparently to you guys if you're not disrespectfully bashing the developer you have to be in support of them.

Go figure

DragonKnight2621d ago

@EDMIX: Didn't say he had to blame them, said he went out of his way to not do so. These are people he's worked with and he doesn't want to burn bridges even if they are in the wrong.

windblowsagain2622d ago

Sorry but witcher 3's animation's are poor as well. There is no muscle movement in most of the face, just around the mouth. Makes it look robotic.

The voices are what carried it through.

Mass effect has always had stiff movement in not just faces, action was always stiff and boring.

Hopefully Mass effect will end with this game.

chris2352621d ago

it ended already. this andromeda entry was purely driven by greed. instead of quality they relied on marketing. a low effort per definition. a pure milking the dead cow release. it is beyond me why there are gamers buying this. but then again, the switch showed there are more than one million zelda players out there and they bought a very questionable piece of hardware for it. maybe we are just getting what we are screaming for. as long as people are supporting subpar stuff the state of the industry will not get any better.

starchild2621d ago

@chris235

Well, you see, it's because we don't all like the same stuff. We all have different preferences, tastes and sensitivities.

You might think Andromeda is ruined by some mediocre facial animations, but I don't. I guarantee there are some games you love that I think are boring. I'm sure there are games you love that I think have serious technical issues worse than anything in MEA. For example, the framerate in Bloodborne, Final Fantasy 15 and Until Dawn is far more consistently bothersome to me than the facial animations or any other technical issue in Mass Effect Andromeda. I hate irregular framerates and they can nearly ruin a game for me, but not everyone feels that way. That's what I mean; we all have different sensitivities and assign different weight to the various aspects of games.

thekhurg2621d ago

LOL

The Witcher 3 has perfectly fine animations by any video game standards. Sorry you couldn't pick up on individual muscle movement, or see arm hair blow in the breeze.

rainslacker2621d ago (Edited 2621d ago )

He did explain it. Was one of his specific examples of an animation system which uses the same process he believes was the problem in Andromeda. He also stated that Witcher wasn't always that great either, because it used the same animation system He stated exactly why the Whitcher did it better however, because they worked on making the quality of the animations better, but there is only so much that can be done with that kind of system without some kind of supplimental back up to make it better.

_-EDMIX-_2621d ago

Do you even comprehend the things that you read? The actual developer is stating that the team chose that path, there not saying that it was impossible, they're simply saying that the team chose a path of quantity vs quality.

Nowhere does it say that's okay, no where does it state that was impossible for them to do otherwise , for god sakes I'm not even sure you're reading any of this as opposed to just bashing and mouthing off.

Smh.

Someone seriously needs to get you a copy of Hooked on Phonics. 😂😂😂

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2621d ago
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190°

Resident Evil Zero and Code Veronica Remakes are reportedly in the works, not Resident Evil 1

Industry insider Dusk Golem reveals that there is no Resident Evil 1 Remake in the works. Instead, Capcom are reportedly in active development of Resident Evil Zero and Code Veronica.

-Foxtrot1d 10h ago

RE Zero would be better to do first over RE1 because they can tie the story into RE1 more.

The original RE Remake was weird because Rebecca never mentioned anything about what happened in Zero and it felt so disjointed because Zero was developed during the Remake and they clearly didn't share any notes with one another.

Cacabunga9h ago

Wise decision. 2 of my favorites!

Knightofelemia1d 7h ago

Give me Dino Crisis dammit Capcom

TGG_overlord13h ago

And all it took was +24 years + a phone call from me lol.

GotGame8186h ago

LOL! A phone call from you? ROFL! They have been remaking RE games for YEARS! It was a matter of time!

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30°

Frostpunk 2 Director Łukasz Juszczyk Discusses Game Balance, Politics, and Beta Feedback

TechRaptor writes, "After getting our hands on the Frostpunk 2 story, we got to sit down with Łukasz Juszczyk to talk about how the game evolved from the original."

Read Full Story >>
techraptor.net
280°

Metal: Hellsinger dev says he is against Game Pass after seeing how it affects sales

Founder of Metal: Hellsinger studio says he wasn't against Game Pass until their game launched on Microsoft's service, which affected game sales.

TheProfessional18h ago(Edited 18h ago)

Why did PS copy gamepass if it's so terrible and unprofitable? PS Now was before gamepass but it was streaming trash that no one had any interest in.

And honestly the way the industry releases overpriced and broken games with day one season passes and dlc who wouldn't want to just pay for a subscription instead of $70 per game?

Only biased PS fans would defend paying more to a corporation rather than an option that's cheaper for the consumer overall. If it's from an indie studio that needs the sales that's different but games published by larger companies are fine on a subscription model. Also any of these devs who complain did decide to put their games on gamepass in thr first place.

ocelot0717h ago

Ahhh yes the typical but but but Sony in a Microsoft article.

When did Sony copy Microsoft? I havent seen Sony's big day one titles such as God of war Ragnarok or GT7? Do you want to know why they are not on the service? Because people are still willing to PAY for the games. Sony has already admitted they lost millions putting Horizon Forbidden West and Ratchet & Clank on PS+ Extra.

"larger companies are fine on a subscription model" Oh really? So why is all the cod games yet to be on it? Where is elden ring? Resident Evil 4 Remake? Street Fighter 6? Boulders Gate 3? Alan Wake 2? Where are they of gamepass is great and big publishers are fine putting newer games on it?

I'll tell you where they are. They are currently still selling for their respected publisher's. You know actually making them money. That money they can use to fund the next project.

who wouldn't want to just pay for a subscription instead of $70 per game?

I'm one of the millions who much rather pay $70 so fully support the publisher. Why do we do this? Well for starters I rather just pay for it rather than keep renting it each month. If we all just kept renting years ago blockbuster would still be around. Secondly, I rather we have AAA titles in 10 years time to enjoy. Rather than play mobile quality crap from a subscription.

Tell me how this is a good thing for gaming going forward. The last time I subbed to Gamepass was October 2023. During that one month subscription I played the newly released Starfield, Forza and a few other titles. All for the cost of about $7. Since then Microsoft have not released anything I want to try out or put anything on GP I want to try. So they last made $7 from me 8 months ago.

In the last 3 months. I have bought Sea of Thieves on PS5 (earning MS more money on that than my 1 month subscription to gamepass). Resident Evil 4 for £20 and Diablo 4 for £25 (again earning MS more buying this than buying a sub). Tell me how it's best for gaming I pay $7 and play the latest and greatest for a month. Rather than just buying what I want even if it means waiting a few months and getting it cheaper than full price yet earning the publisher more than renting said games of a monthly sub.

darthv729h ago

...but didn't this game leave GP and then join PS+?

If a sub service is so bad, why get into another one right away?

Cacabunga9h ago(Edited 9h ago)

Finally devs waking up! More will follow .. reminds me of capcom during PS3,360 era almost going bankrupt they released extremely poor games because Xbox gave them paychecks not to release them on PS3 for as period. Sales were terrible and they went away from that.

Hofstaderman16h ago

Sony has never released new titles day one. They experimented with Forbidden West which was fairly new and quickly discovered that it cannabalized sales. XBOX gamepass was always an act of desperation to remain relevant and in their desperation they effectively dug their grave where today everybody is biding their time for their formerly exclusive titles. In a nutshell GamePass made XBOX not relevant.

Plague-Doctor279h ago

It wasn't desperation. Subscription Models had a very different outlook in 2017 and then with the gaming surge during COVID reaching critical mass seemed more and more possible.

Phil convinced Satya to chase a trend and it hasn't worked out

shinoff21834h ago(Edited 4h ago)

Pretty much. People can say what they want but Ms said it themselves with the court papers. It was definitely desperation. Xbox was getting it handed to them. They were desperate.

lellkay15h ago

Literally dev who put game on gamepass:
It's not good

TheProfessional: but but sony but sony

S2Killinit15h ago(Edited 15h ago)

Sony didnt copy MS. MS copied Sony, then MS went on to make xbox a subscription device. Remember that part? Yeah.

MrNinosan14h ago

You're not too bright, right?

First of all, Sony didn't copy Microsoft regarding PS+ and GamePass, which you admit to early in your comment, but with some faults. PSNow was not only streaming.
The mentality at Xbox gamers, is to NOT buy games, because they are used to get it on GamePass, preferbly day 1 like with all Xbox Studios games.

This is not a thing at PS+ and never was.
Sure there was plenty day 1 games on PS+ like, Rocket League, Stray, Sea of Stars, Tchia, Operation Tango etc, but those didn't take away from gamers that it was more like a "bonus" than a "thing".

Playstation gamers buy games, a lot of games and PS+ has been proving to be way better for business than GamePass, both by actually having more subscribers but also no eating up sales.

dveio14h ago(Edited 14h ago)

"Only biased PS fans would defend paying more to a corporation rather than an option that's cheaper for the consumer overall.“

How can you possibly come to this conclusion?

First, you pay for a subscription.

Then download games. But games will eventually leave the service. You will again need to buy them if you want to play them ever again. Or if you cancel your subscription. Right?

Eventhough this may NOT have an effect on every subscriber, this IS in fact the economical motiviation behind the service like GP.

If you are not already paying "double" this way, you pay at a 1.2 or maybe even at a 1.5 ratio eventually than opposed to simply buying the game in the first place.

As I said, this maybe doesn't apply to every subscriber. But this doesn't erase the fact of this business model existing. And possibly keep growing.

It's driving me nuts at times that especially the die hard Xboxers seem not to understand what they are actually cheering for foolishly.

The Wood13h ago

xbots always tryna group...

..they'll never understand or refuse to acknowledge why these two console brands are miles apart. Gamespass isn't the golden egg some would have you believe. Its hit its peak and is nowhere near the demanded target of subs by the purse holders

The Wood13h ago(Edited 13h ago)

xbots always tryna group...

..they'll never understand or refuse to acknowledge why these two console brands are miles apart. Gamespass isn't the golden egg some would have you believe. Its hit its peak and is nowhere near the demanded target of subs by the purse holders. on top of that it seems more devs on top of the devs that have shunned the service are not seeing the value of subs vs actual sales. Sell first, sub later works better than sub off the bat. MSGaming has a major sea change decision to make regarding COD. Do they release it dod and lose a high portion of up front revenue or either up the price of gp on the whole or create an even higher sub tier to cushion the blow or don't release it on gp at all and potentially damage the good will gesture reiterated not too long ago. The acquisition money wasn't free money....they'll have to pick their poison

anast11h ago

"Why did PS copy gamepass if it's so terrible and unprofitable?"

They didn't copy GP. They aren't dumb enough to put their exclusives day 1.

"Who wouldn't want to just pay for a subscription instead of $70 per game?"

People who don't like to rent things.

outsider162410h ago

It's funny when he says who wouldn't pay for a subscription instead of paying 70$. Well no shit...if MS keeps releasing average titles who wouldnt..🤣

Cockney8h ago(Edited 8h ago)

The reason is playstation didn't copy anybody and they don't release broken games, their games are still not day 1 and Ps players still buy games so ps+ is just an option for those that want a subscription service, the fact playstation doesn’t push it front and centre should tell you a lot.
On xbox gamepass IS front and centre with an option to buy games on the side, look how that is panning out for them!
Xbox fans are the only ones trumpeting this from the rooftops

shinoff21837h ago

Weren't we able to download ps3 on ps3 and ps4 on ps4 systems back then I really don't remember.

Truth is Ms still copied Sony and made a couple adjustments. One adjustment being day one games which clearly has been xboxs issue hence the ps5 releases, and they groomed the base to not buy games.

romulus235h ago

To be fair it takes it's own level of bias to not see the harm day one game pass is doing to xbox and the industry as a whole. Harm that xbox themselves have admitted to.

ChasterMies5h ago(Edited 5h ago)

“Why did PS copy gamepass”

This is a long story that spans decades. Sony subscription services for games (PS+ and PS Now) before Microsoft. Sony and Microsoft weren’t the only ones. We’ve seen OnLive die, Google’s Stadia die, and disc rental services die. What made Game Pass successful is the amount of money Microsoft is able to lose. Everyone expected Sony to offer a one-to-one Game Pass competitor and they did. To actually make money, Somy sells its own games for at least a year before relegating them to PS+. Sony also has scale. More PS5s sold means more users which means more money. Will these subscription services last? Probably not. Few things do.

Flewid6382h ago

As a huge fan of PS Premium, I don't recall a single AAA game launching on it. Even a AA game.

Everything I've found on PS Premium has already been out for sometime. Better selection too. There are games I trialed that I said "yup, I'm buying".

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 2h ago
Skuletor18h ago

I feel no sympathy for the guy, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that putting your game on gamepass would affect sales.

JEECE12h ago

Seriously, how is it that devs need one of their games to bomb in sales due to Gamepass for them to realize what so many people could easily predict? Like people joke about "armchair CEOs" on here, but at least with respect to the effect of Gamepass, we keep seeing that the armchair CEOs are actually smarter than the real heads of these indie studios.

Skuletor5h ago

Probably short-sightedness when he saw that initial Microsoft check, temporarily made all reason jump out the window 🤑

shinoff21834h ago

In some of the devs defense they know the game won't sell. So why not take the gamepass check. Hopefully yaluza/like a dragon sell decent on Xbox. I'd like to keep this series around.

dveio16h ago(Edited 16h ago)

The 'day-one' feature is the breaker or maker with GP, business-wise.

GP is no Netflix.

Because, from all the Marvel's Avengers to Sicarios, illustratively speaking, they all had their box office money. Before they had entered Netflix.

This concept shows you what Microsoft have actually put themselves into.

And what situation studios put themselves into if they go day-one into GP.

solideagle11h ago

GP/PS Extra day one is best suited for GAAS or free to play games

truthBombs16h ago

Why not sell your game the traditional way first? Then after about 6 months to a year put it on a sub service.

Day one on gamepass is a gamble. It works for some (Pal world) and not for others.

anast11h ago

It's the old psych. experiment. Set out some candy and tell the person they can have it all now, or if they wait, they can have double the amount. Most choose the first option, then complain when it doesn't work out for them.

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