Two Future AMD Features Are Debuting in PS4 Pro; Watch Dogs 2 & Mass Effect Andromeda Run @1800P

PS4 Pro has two features from AMD's future roadmap. Watch Dogs 2 and Mass Effect: Andromeda both run @1800P with checkerboard rendering.

[Imp0ssibl3]

I guess very few games will have native 4K, the console just isn't powerful enough

[TripleCs]

Does it really need to run everything at native 4K?. This is a BIG step up from what we've been getting which is 900p and 1080p, sometimes even 720p... Also, 1800p is fairly close to 4K (2160p) and with checkerboard rendering the 1800p image will be damn near identical and indistinguishable to a 2160p image. Even media outlets like digitalfoundry have been saying this and they've had hands on time with the system. I honestly think it'll be harder to spot the difference beetween a 1800p image vs a 4K image compared to a 900p image vs a 1080p image or a 720p image vs a 1080p image.

God, some of you people are literally reaching for the stars with your complaints and it's pathetic. The desperation is real. Honestly, people like you are worse than the feminist I see on the internet with all this unnecessary and inncessant nitpicking, whining and bitching that you do over the littlest and most trivial things.

[Muzikguy]

Also a 540p in there somewhere, albeit on a different brand but still during this generation. I wonder if the Scorpio would have this same thing happen as well (meaning 1800p). I'm sure with the even bigger bump in power it will have native 4K, but this here is definitely a welcome addition to the PS brand and family.

I agree there's waaaaaaaaaayy too much nitpicking and negativity these days on the internet and in real life. It's no wonder so many people are miserable or angry all the time.

[Princess_Pilfer]

Not with how that upscaling works it won't. We've already seen screenshots and gameplay footage, and we already know how the rendering technique softens the edges. (Which digital foundry also explicitly pointed out if you want to play that game.) You might not see it in fast paced action sequences, it will definitely be noticeable in other areas because it is definitely noticeable already.

When their whole marketing push was "4k" and now what they're delivering is "1800p and abnormally good but still noticeable upscaling" then it's not nitpicking to be disappointed or annoyed.

[Ju]

Well, while "native" 4k is debatable, there is indeed physical HW in this box which accelerates other things. Not sure who actually invented the "ID" buffer, but Cherny sells this like a Sony invention. So, it has quite some dedicated HW to make the final image look like 4K. So, indeed, their focus was a 4K target. What does it matter how the final pixel you see ends up on that 4k grid? It goes through quite some pipelines before anyhow. If it would just be a simple fixed low res frame buffer and a simple SW scaler (or even HW) I probably would not be impressed. But Sony added things to the GPU (writing an additional "ID" buffer with 0 overhead) which would else require a different generation of GPU and a complete redesign of the machine.
This is a simple upgrade to the existing and not a new machine, this became quite obvious.

Sony also has other goals than MS. That is, 100% HW backwards compatibility. That might be necessary because Sony allows(ed) developers to be very close to the metal (incl. cache line locking and such) which a new generation of chip would simply break - even if the ISA is the same.

Now, we will see, if the Scorpio won't utilize ESRAM and how this will work, if current XBO games hit that silicon directly - or if the DX API is the lowest level and can actually intercept that. Else those games will simply not run on the Scorpio without a patch. MS as a SW company has a more sophisticated OS and with that, this might well be solved on the OS layer.

I still think, Sony should have allowed a PS4 performance mode, that is, register compatible, but at least enable the higher clock by default and maybe the OS could handle this through a (hidden) white/black list approach - that is, all games are blacklisted until QA can verify those games in performance mode and subsequently accelerate those. An OS update could simply refresh that list (or it could simply be maintained on a server somewhere - hey, would be fun having hackers hijacking that URL ;) ). Maybe that's still possible. But how I understand this, current PS4 games without a patch run exactly the same way the original PS4 runs (minus the 4K OS overlay), and actually will disable half of the Pro's HW. Not surprising. And at least good in the sense that Sony can guarantee 100% compatibility with the Standard PS4.

What a performance mode would automatically give you is running 45fps games closer to 60 and games which do dynamically scale resolution hit the real 1080p more often, that is all. I would still want that. Well...we'll see...I think it's about 3 more weeks?

[Army_of_Darkness]

I just want the option of playing all my games in 1080p @60fps. That will make me an extremely happy ps4 pro owner :D

[Omnislashver36]

@Armchair analyst...

900p x 2 = 1800p
1080p x 2 = 2160p

They have the exact same ratio. PS4 Pro has better upscaling this time though. This will be interesting.

[DARK_WOLF]

1080p x 4 = 2160p

1080p - 1080p
1080p - 1080p

Thats what 2160p looks like.

[Elda]

Preach!!

[Ceaser9857361]

well said BADBOYC ... few fan girls are downplaying the PS4 Pro ever since it was announced and are applauding the Scorpio which is like a year away from now and we don't know the system in detail.. Hey! i will invest in both the Pro and Scorpio and looking forward to it. All these complaints and rants are seriously! childish ...

[OB1Biker]

Haha well said and thank you for that. So many people were saying they preferred 900p performing well than forced 1080p and now it's even making more sense not to push native 4k at all cost. What the hell, we all know it's a marketing thing

[TripleCs]

@Forum Pirate

Funny you mention that because Digitalfoundry said in that same Killing Floor video where I'm assuming you got your info from that they only noticed it's limitations with the games they demoed when they were sitting MERE inches away from the screen. So basically you have to be in damn near touching or hugging distance to your TV to even notice it but I like how you left that part out.

This is a good example of what I mean when I say people are needlessly nitpicking.

And I don't think really Sony has marketed the Pro as a strictly 4K console. I think Sony marketed the PS4 Pro as a console that will have 4K capabilities and run the same games better than the standard PS4 does visually. I don't see Sony execs talking about how the Pro will run games at 4K uncompromised or how the Pro is a true 4K console like Microsoft execs have done. As a matter a fact I recall Andrew House being very upfront and stating that most of the big games will br upscaled to 4K with the Pro while running at a very high resolution shortly after the PS4 Pro reveal.

[jc12]

You guys make it sound like people cant express their opinion of the PRO if its even remotely critical. Good lord, its the vociferous defenders of this console that need to relax. Not everyone is going to think like you - believe like you - or be like you.

Its ok for people to be skeptical of the PRO. Jeez. Its just an opinion, not the end of the world.

[WickedLester]

I just hate how the PC mentality has crept it's way into the console space. Who gives a shit? If I cared this much about raw power I'd become a PC gamer. As it stands I don't even have a 4k TV and I don't plan on getting one anytime soon . Tell me how Pro is going to improve A.I. Tell me how it's going to improve game mechanics. Tell me how it's going to improve the UI. Tell me how it's going to improve framerate. Things like that which directly affect the user experience mean more to me than resolution or textures.

[dumahim]

@Forum Pirate
"(Which digital foundry also explicitly pointed out if you want to play that game.)"

I'm also pretty sure he said he got his face right up to the TV to notice it as well, and he was still impressed.

[Gaming_Cousin]

@Imp0ssibl3

Do you actually think that at the price it is selling it was going to run in 4k? I can't believe some people think that there is some revolutionary magic going on that would somehow make games run in ultra quality at a low price.

[Muzikguy]

I think most of it is based on how many people are just completely clueless to business. They don't understand what goes into these things or why they cost what they do. They just want it, without paying full price.

[kenwonobi]

For real. If this had been the PS4 original specs and launched 3 years ago it would have cost 600-500 dollars. For its price and still a sizeable bump in hardware it's a great price now.

[ShadowKnight]

At least one of the consoles will have way more exclusive games and the real reason I invest in consoles tbh.

[Alexious]

As someone who has a gaming PC, PlayStation 4 Pro is far more appealing right now.

[Sparta07]

Doesn't bother you when xbox displays games at 900p, so I'm sure this won't bother you at all.

[Kokyu]

They said thay from the damn beginning are you just stupid or illiterate?

[Soc5]

Where have you been? It's not designed for native 4K, isn't that obvious?
You need like 2 top of the line PC Cards in SLI for 4K

[peppeaccardo]

I would rather have more detailed models, more effects and better frame rate @ 1080P on screen then higher resolution with the same assets as the normal PS4. Resolution is not a game changer IMO.

[ninsigma]

That's possible but it's up to the devs to decide what they wanna do with the extra power.

[dumahim]

I agree and thankfully Rise of the Tomb Raider gives us an option close to that. Unfortunately, it sounds like the CPU isn't up to the task of providing 60 fps for most of the games.

[iTechHeads]

Doesn't matter.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"I guess very few games will have native 4K, the console just isn't powerful enough" Its still the highest resolution for consoles yet.Vanilla PS4 can't do it and X1 can't do it natively. I bet those games look great on Pro and most definitely the definitive edition of them all.

[kenwonobi]

You sound ignorant. That's not all that important. The ones who sound the most ignorant never realize how a big jump that is to have a gorgeous game running perfect at this resolution. It's gonna still look great.

[_-EDMIX-_]

Are the games being created are too demanding to run it on that platform Sony does not control the developers games the developers to do.

I mean no one is forcing Electronic Arts to use Frostbite 3...

If a developer actually wants a game running at that resolution it's up to them to actually make their game less demanding to achieve that not up to a console maker to make a system as powerful as Infinity nobody knows what a developer's game entails and regards to how demanding it is that is up to the developer to decide.

Not sure how you guys don't get this yet.

[S2Killinit]

Who cares about native PS4 is where the games are at. And VR.

[FATHASUN]

What's not good is selling gamers on the promise of "4K gaming". No console will have easily implemented Native 4K. Unless Scorpio ups the Ante on spec we are looking at years before consoles do this with ease.

[Aurenar]

I'm betting Scorpio will have these features too since they're also going to use AMD for the hardware. And maybe they'll be even better with an additional year of development

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Not sure why the disagrees. I hope if both systems do 1800p or above the Scorpio gets boosts on framerate and texture quality.

[Rimeskeem]

Because this article has nothing to do with the Scorpio

[Alexious]

A 30 to 60 frame rate boost is basically impossible as that would also require a much more powerful CPU.

It's likely that frame rate will be more stable, though, beside the image quality improvements.

[DeadlyOreo]

Rimeskeem

Thank you! God, these Scorpio people keep popping up everywhere on any article related to Sony or PS4.

Just wait for the damn Scorpio patiently, and we'll just enjoy the PS4 Pro next month. The defensiveness is so unnecessary.

[DARK_WOLF]

Ps4pro has 2 vega features. Scorpio IS vega. Also scorpio rumored to have 56-60cu where as ps4pro only has 36.

Scorpio will have those features and then some.

[Razrye2]

Are we pulling stats out of our asses again?

[DARK_WOLF]

Are we putting our heads in the sand and not willing to entertain any thought of scorpios reality like lots of others in here?

Certainly looks like it.

Maybe look into it like you acually care. Look into vega. Do some digging and you will see. Scorpio is rumored and heavily likely to have vega chip with 56-60 cu around 800mhz clock speed which equals 6tf

But no im sure scorpio will have the exact same cu count as ps4 pro and just pull an extra 1.8tf out its ass.

[WickedLester]

Scorpio doesn't need more cu. It needs more quality exclusives.

[DARK_WOLF]

Oh please like gears 4 and forza horizon 3 didnt just drop. Give me a break

[WickedLester]

"Like Gears and Forza 3 didn't just drop..."

@DarkWolf

Yeah and what have you been playing for the other 9 months of the year? Please! GTFO with your "Halo, Gears, Forza" rinse and repeat, also-ran console! Which btw I will now be able to play it's games on my PC so no, those aren't exclusives. At least with PS Pro I'd be able to play true exclusive games not found on any other platform.

[hells_supernova]

I already own a scorpio though its at my desk. Love my ps4 for those console games however. Do not care for 4k, UHD etc etc

[DARK_WOLF]

Pft. i mustv been playing loads of imaginary games the past 3 years then.

[Starman69]

Yes, and all developers have the money and resources to take full advantage of this.. Errrm no. The general public and the tv broadcaster's arnt even ready for 4k yet. Bit early and a bit risky i say. Ps4p will be more with the times and what the general public have in their pockets!! Its called doing your research microsoft.

[kraenk12]

Never forget...MS aren't very good at developing hardware. They are software specialists.

[G20WLY]

I agree. So...where are their games?

[DJ]

It's definitely possible, and would be incredible if the Scorpio could also do two 16 bit operations per clock cycle. Then it would actually be a 12 tflop console! :D

But Microsoft doesn't have anyone like Mark Cerny in charge of Xbox hardware. When the Xbox One was designed, they went with cheaper DDR3 memory at the expense of performance. And when they commissioned an integrated GPU, they thought 12 asynchronous compute units was good enough. Microsoft took a budget approach to that console.

Mark on the other hand pushed for GDDR5 memory to basically double the GPU performance, and then went the extra mile with 18 ACUs.

I know Microsoft wants to rectify that 2:1 performance difference between the PS4 and Xbox One, but we don't know anything about the Scorpio GPU specs other than its 32-bit teraflop rating. Did Microsoft wait a year because Sony bought exclusive manufacturing rights to certain features? Were they simply waiting for more future AMD roadmap features that weren't quite ready for 2016?

It's hard to say.

Based of what Microsoft's Phil Spencer has stated, they were chasing pure 32 bit Teraflop performance. And because the wattage and thermal requirements of a 6 tflop console are fairly high, it's possible they just needed a better manufacturing process from AMD to make Scorpio a reality.

[no_more_heroes]

I'm guessing this means that 2160p (4k) on Scorpio should be easy to achieve then.

I really need to get some kind of 4K+HDR screen sometime soon.

[Silly gameAr]

Im so tired of you insecure people bringing up Scorpio in PS articles. Go find a Scorpio article and talk about it there.

[no_more_heroes]

I'm definitely not one of those "insecure people" you speak of, but fair enough; shouldn't have brought it up anyway. I'll be more careful next time. ;)

[Eldyraen]

To be fair, as we now know that a weaker device can run it at 'almost' at 4k then its also a safe assumption someone might think this besides no_more_heroes. It doesn't mean its easy, but its much more doable than some would had thought (myself included). Both Pro and Scorpio are quite capable machines (going by what we 'know') and comparisons are natural once you hear about one or another.

It doesn't make it any less relevant as until now we didn't really know what the games would be rendered at whatsoever. I came for the games, not the platform specifically. ME at 1900 (if I buy a 4k tv by then) sounds wonderful since its releasing well before the Scorpio from the sound of it. For those that wait, a 'marginal' boost could still be welcome. I'll probably get it on pc anyways though but maybe not. Consoles are getting to the point where it doesn't matter much and even graphic wh*res will accept that one day (myself included in this--its part of why I've loved pc for so long but with stronger consoles the differences between pc/console graphics are rapidly diminishing... still there but not as blatant).

[Silly gameAr]

@no_more_heroes

Sorry, I didn't mean to be harsh, but every time there's a Pro article, there's someone that has to rush in and talk about the Scorpio.

[Sevir]

They can't, because they have nothing but a bullet point of 6Tflops and you video.... they won't have anything to direct for a year.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

We are talking about two consoles with very similar architecture. The PS4P basically tells us everything the Scorpio will be capable of, so the more news the better. In no way does this diminish the extraordinary power of the PS4P, so him talking about it is fine unless you feel its making you insecure. We're all gamers, chill.

[no_more_heroes]

@Silly gameAr

I do get your concern, but if I cared any less about the console wars, my ability to care about something would go sub-atomic and never return...

[Tctczach]

Pretty sure this has been happening on every article about either console.

[Destiny1080]

you try and get 4k out of a modified rx480

[Omnislashver36]

Probably not. They choose 1800p explicitly because it uses 77% less power than 2160p. Scorpio is only 30% more powerful. If they choose 4K, you won't be getting better graphics as well.

[Onenyte]

if you are in Europe ( i am in the UK , not sure if its available in the U.S) check out the Samsung UE6400 40"

it pretty much ticks all the boxes for gaming in HDR and 4k, and the input lag is incredible

price is sweet as well

[Benchm4rk]

Think you might of got the model number wrong mate. Just looked that tv up and it's not 4k. Did you mean the KU6400 40" model?

[Dasteru]

@Silly gameAr:

He made a simple and factual observation. The insecure ones are you and all the other PS fanbots who freak out at the mention of anything that is pro MS/Nintendo/PC, etc and/or doesn't make Sony seem like the second coming of Christ.

N4G has truly devolved into a sad state of Sony fanboyism over the years.

[Silly gameAr]

I'm a Sony "fanbot" because I go into a SONY thread and expect to see comments about the topic which happens to be about a SONY PRODUCT? Yeah, Dasteru, that makes perfect sense. If Sony fanboyism is in a sad state, I wonder what you think about other fanboys? Do you just pretend that they don't exist?

[Chris_Wray]

As others have said, I'm very much expecting Scorpio to match the news. I think that MS need to beat the pro in power though, otherwise launching late will cripple them.

[Gaming_Cousin]

It will surpass the power. Look at when it releases! It would be very stupid of Microsoft or have a crappier system releasing much later and also all the boasting the did with its power.

[Muzikguy]

It is interesting to point out that the PS4 has a graphical output of 1.84Tflops and the Pro has one of 4.2Tflops. That's a nice bump just to pretty much handle 4K better and help in VR. Notice the Scorpio jumps to 6Tflops. If I were to (possibly) go out on a limb here, it doesn't seem like such a big jump to me. It's kind of like the bump between the two PS4 models. It'll surpass in power for sure

[KaiPow]

Resolution is nice, but will either of these hit 60fps?

[ccgr]

curious how they'll run on a standard PS4

[Red_Renegade]

isn't that up to devs?

[Sevir]

If they chose to lock the gps at 30, it's very much a developers choice. And I'm fine with a system that's consistent

[Cybermario]

if anyone expected native 4k resolution for the price of the Pro well sorry to burst your bubble, still games looks absolutely stunning.

[DJ]

Agreed, PS5 will be native 4K, but at least we get a nice in between system that helps push more 4K TVs, thus bringing down the cost of those TVs for the rest of us.

[conanlifts]

I am more than happy with 1800p. Good price to performance.

[Eldyraen]

I'm happy with mine, but I'm getting a Pro anyways eventually probably (after I get a 4k tv or the support for 1080p televisions with Enhanced graphics is proven a reality and not just sparingly).

[Ju]

Price tp performance is really key. I can't believe what they packed into this baby and yet it launches at the same price...

[showtimefolks]

Just give me 1080P with 60 FPS

I am not expecting a $399 console to do a native 4K with 30 FPS and neither will a $499(Scorpio) do 4K native

Why can't some of you be happy that we went from 512MB ram to 8-12 GB ram and went from 1.5 TF to 4.2 and 6 respectively

I am sure ps5 and Xbox 2 will do native 4K but neither pro nor Scorpio can handle that this gen

Some of the high end cards can't even handle 4K at 30 FPS at the moment

Do you really think millions upon millions of casual gamers care about or even understand the difference between up scaled and native 4K?

If you are buy pro enjoy it and if you are waiting for Scorpio have fun when you buy it. Can we please stop the hate on one console or the other and just enjoy which ever one we prefer

And here is the biggest kicker of them all. It's not Sony or ms who decides how developers will use the extra power. They can go for 4K, 60 FPS or higher res textures with better overall performance. And ps4 pro can do 4K native evidence being the last of us remaster and skyrim remaster.

End of the day price will matter and coming first to the market in my opinion will help

[B1uBurneR]

People need to get over this native vs checkers debacle, As long as the games look draw dropping and it doesn't impact the gameplay negatively. Then it shouldn't matter at all. I for one can't wait for the system to launch. Besides who doesn't love checkers? Those fries are awesome. Now that it is a part of the PS4 PRO. I mean what more greatness could you ask for.

[DJ]

The Spider-Man developers apparently figured out an even better technique than Checkerboard Rendering, and Mark Cerny revealed that developers are free to use and share whichever techniques they want. I really like his open approach to the system tech.

[LamerTamer]

Meh, I would have rather had 60 FPS at 1080p with more effects and graphics features. Pseudo 4K (even native 4k) PQ has diminishing returns in noticeable quality if viewed from normal TV viewing distance. Better LOD, field of view, AO etc. and smoother frame rate is MUCH more noticeable than slightly crisper edges. The whole 4K hype is over rated.

[Shineon]

Not sure if I should get this or wait for scorpio

[Ceaser9857361]

Depends.. if you care less about PS exclusive or if you have a PS4 and you're ok with it then Scorpio, again if u care less about PC gaming like me then Scorpio... I could easily get a PC instead of the scorpio but i prefer console over PC..

[zivtheawesome]

after hearing about the usage of dual 16 bit half floats instead of 32 bit, theoretically the PS4P could end up as more powerfull than the scorpio if developers utilise it to the max.

[Elda]

Next month awaits!

[DJ]

You guys should actually read the Eurogamer interview. Every site is quoting them because it's the most detailed explanation of how the PS4 Pro was designed and why Mark Cerny was able to make an 8.4 tflop GPU for basically half the cost. The big question is whether Sony paid for exclusive access to the Object ID Pass, geometry culler and dual 16 bit processing per clock cycle? If so, AMD may have succeeded in getting Microsoft to pay extra money for a Scorpio GPU that can do more 32 bit ops per clock cycle, but fewer 16 bit ops per cycle.

It's a really weird gray area in performance that may take a few years for developers to properly give concrete answers on.

[kraenk12]

There seems to be quite some magic sauce involved with the new GPU.

[Rob_Ko]

I don't even have 4k TV yet and I want to buy Pro. Can anyone tell me what TV I need to run games at 1800p? Normal HD (1080p) is enough?

[kraenk12]

Of course not. The games will be downsampled to 1080 if you chose so which means you will have better AA..Or have higher details and better lighting for example. It's up to the developers to chose how they make use of the extra power though so it will depend on the game.

[joab777]

I just want it to be like a scuff controller. What does it say that their pro controller is like an Xbox controller?

[thornh]

To all Scorpio peeps. On paper the Scorpio will be more powerful. Excellent. But no matter how powerful it may be I will never be able to play God of War and Zero Dawn on it. So, that's why I'll take my sub par PS4 Pro and I'll be happy.

[Takwin]

I have already ordered the PS4 Pro (and will sell my PS4 when it arrives), and I will order the Nintendo Switch the second I can (but will need to see if we keep the Wii U and 3DS or not yet).