Cell processor in Toshiba TV

What happens when you take the powerful Cell microprocessor, the chip that sits at the heart of the PlayStation 3 games console, and put it to use inside a television? Toshiba demonstrated just such a T

[crazymad59]

impressive

[Julie]

I don't understand techincal thingies but yes this is amazing :O
Upscale thingy wow, i want one of those tv's :3

[solidt12]

Sweet. I wonder if upscaling will be support via Play TV on the PS3 when it ships. If so it could do the same thing it does in the Toshiba Cell based TV but from the PS3 so you could get the same results on any HDTV via HDMI.

[Harry190]

why does sd cable tv look so bad on my 42 incch 1080p tv?why o why?curse the gods

[Delt4]

well SD doesn't look as good when it is not digital. The worst picture you will get is anything analog. ANALOG SUCKS. It is as cool as a black and white TV set. Where do you live and who is the cable provider? I work for a cable company and if you want to know anything about it just ask. There are also some things you can do to make the picture a bit better so feel free to ask.

[Ju]

You can still do a lot with the SD signal if you process it right. Much more then current HD-TVs do. Actually, that's why I'd hope Sony would allow PlayTV receive a standard video signal or would include an SD tuner, which would pretty much result in the same thing just seen here in the video, but using the PS3 externally, though (I would imagine, the USB2 is to slow to feed more then 2 channels, however. But still sufficient for my needs). My TV scaler is crap, and so is my Setop-Box. With proper filters, that can be enhanced to scaled DVD quality, IMO.

[Dpa]

At 42" you need to be sitting at least something like 10 feet away from the TV before SD starts to look reasonable.

[Delt4]

well yes SD video you can do alot with....if you have the tools and parts and the knowledge to do so. But most people francly dont have things to process to hd or digital picture. But we could also be talking about two diffrent things i am talking analog SD but when you move to digital SD most that is sent to you house ready to be translated

[travelguy2k]

to transmit the diital data. If you watch the bit rate meter on the PS3 (press select) while watching a blu ray movie, i have nver seen it go over like 25mb per second and USB2 will do like 480mb per second.

[player911]

Because SD is a small picture. When you take a small picture and blow it up to 10x its size... the picture looks like crap.

Thats why a 720 TV will look better than a 1080 TV... not because of WHAT it CAN display... but because everything going into it is normally a 480 or a 720 image.

HD = 720

So even watching a HD movie or show... a 1080 TV will still have to stretch the picture, again causing jaggies and horrible quality. So unless your 1080 TV is connected to a 1080 output device, your going to have visual flaws.

So basically at this point, the best TV is a native 720 HD that can ACCEPT a 1080 signal. This will actually display HD on a 1:1 ratio giving you the best picture AND will "shrink" the 1080 input display, which will look superb as well (no loss in quality).

So while a 1080 set will stretch out an HD 720 signal, it'll wreck havoc on a SD 480 signal.

What newer TV's are doing today, are upconverting the inputs so that they run at the native resolution of the TV (no stretching). This will take a graphic processor such as those in Olevia sets and now this Toshiba set.

I have an Olevia set, and it already has an ATI processor in it which does the same thing. It upconverts my SD signals and my interlaced signals. I don't know how powerful the ATI processor is compared to this cell processor, but every little bit helps.

I personally think the 1080 resolution is a waste because HD = 720, and everything is going to HD. The only way you'd get a 1080 signal is an xbox/PS3/Blueray/HD-DVD but the movie/game must support that 1080 resolution.

I just think they should have picked one resolution, made it standard, and focused around that. Having this 1080, this 480, and that 720 just makes things complicated and crappy.

[gonzopia]

Upscaling from 720p to 1080p is not that bad. Even upscaling 480 is not that bad, as long as it's a digital signal. I'd hate to have bought a TV that doesn't do 1080p since the victory of Blu-ray means I can start buying discs for my PS3 now.

[TwissT]

Wow thats amazing. But I wish the quality of the video was better so we could see the comparisons of SD and Upscaled more better.

[moscardini7]

CELL IS THE FUTURO.?????

[pigninja]

cause you're television my RROD, haha!

[Frances-the-Mute]

dang! i feel discouraged to use my tv after watching that video

:(

[ChefDejon]

cause that amazing chip is sitting under my TV

[wageslave]

"amazing chip" for signal processing.

Lets see how it does with physics and AI.

[LJWooly]

Try not to bring up off-topic points in the Gamer Zone, or someone will end up reporting you.

[The_Engineer]

this further proves that those who bash the PS3 and cell have no clue what they are talking about. here let me act like a retard......

dee dee dee dduhhhhhhhhhhhhh signal processing is not the same as physics and AI, even though it is all 1's and 0's the cell has a preference for 1's and 0's only involved in signal processing. Why am I right?? because I say so and thats what the MS quick sheet says.
duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

pathetic really

[neogeo]

I always knew the cell had power. Think of it streaming 6 HD 1080p channels at once. Now think of what PS3 can do when they harness the power of the system.

I have been saying that 2009 is the year for the PS3 and people don't agree, but I truly belive that next year in 2009 will we really be able to enjoy PS3 to its fullest.

[travelguy2k]

the year before Microsoft scrapes the 360 is the year we can finally enjoy our PS3's fully.

I'm not sure what you do with yours but i watch Blu Rays, and play lots of games. It does what i expect it to do, and sometimes, sometimes it even surprizes me and does an even better job, this is usually when a develpoer has spent the time to figure out how to program for it.

Why wait?...The Future is NOW!!!

[hotshot127]

i cant wait to see what devs can do with it.

[eagle21]

period.

[sak500]

What happens when you take the powerful Cell microprocessor, the chip that sits at the heart of the PlayStation 3 games console, and put it to use inside a television?

It starts to fold@home?

[pwnsause]

well I guess they gave up HD-DVD for this which is superb.

[pwnsause]

wait how the hell am I getting disagrees its true, lol, its not bad, its awesome that they're doing this instead. I want to see the cell be applied to anything thats electronics.

[Delt4]

i wish you could look up who disagrees with you on comments that are completely neutral. And there address lol

[wageslave]

Well, the two things are totally and completely unrelated on every level. Uhm, that may be why you get disagrees.

Oh, did you know Sony sold their share of The Cell business to Toshiba last year?

[ReBurn]

Toshiba co-developed the Cell processor. They didn't give up anything for it. I guess it is hard for some people to wrap their brains around the fact that companies like Sony and Toshiba are in multiple businesses and are very strong strategic allies in some of them.

[bozobucketeer]

@ReBurn- I was always under the impression that Sony created the Universe and sliced bread all in the same week.

[gambare]

Sony made a great processor, only this year will show what the cell is capable, user created environments (LBP), High realism complex graphics (GT5), Multi user online gaming(Resistance 2), Huge High-res image processing (Blaz-Blue). This will be a great year for gaming and tech.

[kewlkat007]

"Sony" made a great processor? Do you know who is involved with the Cell?

Plus I think Sony pulled out of Further Research and development of the Cell, which makes you wonder about the cell's for future, for game use. Weird, Toshiba is now working on the 32nano chip and is making the PS3 chips.Ironically Toshiba is at the other Loosing end of the stick in a different market. Funny how these companies go head to head in one market and Do Business as if nothing is going on.

Now video and sound processing is what this thing was truly made for.
I seem to watch more "SD" then HD, so this TV would of been great, oh well, that's what I get for getting things early.

[pwnsause]

sorry kewlkat007, you failed. they dropped development for the cell for financial reasons, which got passed on to toshiba and IBM, since they were the founders of the cell.

[xboxrumble]

is somewhat right.

this tv rocks tho.

[power of Green]

Toshiba was involved of the creation of it as well. lol

Sony, Toshiba and IBM, "STI".

What ever happend after the CEll's birth and first foot hold in the market with the STI team is besides the point.

Many (hundreds) engineers from all three companies worked together in Austin, with critical support from eleven of IBM's design centers I just don't understand #10.2's point.

Get it... got it... good!.

[bizi6498]

sony outsourced chip *production* and all the trolls read 'woohoo, sony's given up on the Cell design'.

It is funny to watch people who confuse their desires and reality.

[eagle21]

That would be hot!

[Xakep]

We're going to use it to turn all of your Blu-Ray discs into HD-DVDs muahahaha. ..oops said too much.

[tweaker]

Replace the Cell with the Xbox 360 CPU in that TV. Lets see how it'll perform. lol

[BrianC6234]

If you do that you better not watch TV for more than an hour at a time. Turn it off a few hours and let it cool down. Hey, that's a great idea for parents who don't want their kids watching much TV. You get one hour tonight, make it count.

[ApocalypseShadow]

and people have already forgotten.midway through,phil shows tech demos demonstrating this very same thing with ps3.(IF YOU WATCH THE VIDEO,IT SHOWS EVERYTHING SONY WANTED TO DO AND ARE DOING)
http://www.gametrailers.com...

kewkat is actually right and wrong.sony didn't pull out of making it per se.they were the front runners of parallel processing led by enginneers like ken kutaragi(A FREAKIN GENIUS).he knew normal chips would hit a limit.but multiple chips working together would spread out the workload.the GS CUBE showed the way back in 2000.anyone following this would know this.it defined exactly what ps3 was going to be.

BACK IN 2000!!
http://www.gamasutra.com/fe...

the only reason sony sold the chip manufacturing plants to toshiba is because they still have a great relationship with toshiba.(the part i agree with kewlkat on),and to save money by just BUYING the chips from toshiba.instead of taking in the cost of making the chips.

but everything sony showed in 2005 is exactly what is showing up NOW.

*the bluray disc destroyed hd-dvd.as sony said it would by including it into EVERY ps3.and said it will help games now and in the future.

*the cell processor streams hd video(sucks that it's down from 12 to 6.but hey).and anyone who has a ps3 will know this because of remote play,the media thumbnails,etc.and number crunches like a beast.

*the games show great physics,lighting,objects onscreen,high def sound,and 1080p resolution.

and each game:GT5,heavenly sword,killzone2,resistance,mot orstorm,uncharted,ratchet,etc, l ook and play like the "TARGET VIDEOS" suggested.

sony promised a multimedia machine.

AND THEY DELIVERED beyond the unbelievers expectations.i knew that this system was great and i knew the chip inside of it would do wonders for many devices like this toshiba televison.

believers knew back in 2000.and at E3 in 2005.

megaton....................

[ApocalypseShadow]

well let me see......

http://www.gametrailers.com...

(66:15)seconds into this link,phil harrison shows this demonstration back in 2005 at E3.hd streams and multimedia thumbnails.

almost 3 freakin years ago.but disagree all you want.but the proof is right there for you to see.

sucks to be you phantom disagreers.i really don't care.i'm more showing "REAL" gamers sony tech that is being shown in this toshiba video.it's nothing new.sony already let me know years ago.but you,and others tried to downplay everthing sony was doing.but you....

failed.and i mean.....EPIC NUCLEAR BOMB FAIL.

megaton...................

[travelguy2k]

is that if T.V. start to use the cell, it will become even cheaper, thus reducing the cost of the PS3 in the future.

[Dpa]

I can think of one major downside of this TV. Surely it must have fans?? Or at least a big heatsink?

[Cartesian3D]

for sure it wont need a heatsink and Fan Like PS3 ..

because it wont work on the same Frequency (3.2GHZ FULL LOAD) ..and for sure wont need to process that amount of Huge tasks ..

so a Slim heat sink will be enough :)

[Ju]

...and it has no graphics chip...

[tony]

go Toshiba.

[avacadosnorkel]

When they all the parties involved invented the cell they said it would have lots of HD uses.

About time they start using it elsewhere.

[Raptors]

So from a technical perspective, what limits the ps3? I mean by the benchmark tests that are run the cell is the be all and end all of processors. Blu Ray....enough said. So is it the graphics card and the amount of ram?

[bootsielon]

Perhaps the most limiting part is the amount of RAM, or not necessarily the amount, but the architecture and how it is used by the OS. However, XDR RAM is pretty fast, which is also an advantage to have. Had Sony added more RAM though, it may have killed PS3s attempt to be successful, because of the cost. However, all the problems that come with this can be solved with optimizing code.

Another component that might hold back the PS3 would be the RSX. It's not that it is bad, it is a great GPU with high theoretical processing peak, but it may not be efficient and hard to take advantage off. However, the problems are also solved by optimizing the code to take advantage of it, meaning that whatever it isn't good at, it's handled by the Cell processor.

The Blu-ray drive's speed is countered by the HDD in every PS3, but again, that requires additional work.

So, you could say that PS3s main limiting factor isn't the hardware, but rather, the extra amount of work you have to put on it, in contrast with the 360, which has not only better dev tools, but the hardware is easier to develop for. Its problems are lack of HDD and lack of Next-gen drive, but again, that means developers will work even less on the game, and not more.

So yeah, PS3 requires a lot more work, 360 doesn't, and may even require you to stop working once you've reached the phase where you need an HDD or when you're gonna surpass DVD9's limit.

[The_Engineer]

try lack of developer know how

[bootsielon]

I bet it could still compete with the best processors in some tasks in three years.

[robep3]

First physics & ai have a look at Uncharted 0r COD4 on PS3 or
Motorstorm or RFOM2 WHEN IT APPEARS!!!!.
Also they sold the fabrication plant not the rights LOL do some
research you DF.

Rob.

[robep3]

Read this link to make it easy an extract is here as well

AN INTERESTING LINK

http://researchweb.watson.i...

FROM THIS LINK

Introduction: History of the project

Initial discussion on the collaborative effort to develop Cell began with support from CEOs from the Sony and IBM companies: Sony as a content provider and IBM as a leading-edge technology and server company. Collaboration was initiated among SCEI (Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated), IBM, for microprocessor development, and Toshiba, as a development and high-volume manufacturing technology partner. This led to high-level architectural discussions among the three companies during the summer of 2000. During a critical meeting in Tokyo, it was determined that traditional architectural organizations would not deliver the computational power that SCEI sought for their future interactive needs. SCEI brought to the discussions a vision to achieve 1,000 times the performance of PlayStation2** [1, 2]. The Cell objectives were to achieve 100 times the PlayStation2 performance and lead the way for the future. At this stage of the interaction, the IBM Research Division became involved for the purpose of exploring new organizational approaches to the design. IBM process technology was also involved, contributing state-of-the-art 90-nm process with silicon-on-insulator (SOI), low-k dielectrics, and copper interconnects [3]. The new organization would make possible a digital entertainment center that would bring together aspects from broadband interconnect, entertainment systems, and supercomputer structures. During this interaction, a wide variety of multi-core proposals were discussed, ranging from conventional chip multiprocessors (CMPs) to dataflow-oriented multiprocessors.

SONY'S IDEA m8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob

[LinuxGuru]

With a Cell processor in the TVs, aren't they going to need forced-air cooling now, instead of just air vents?

I don't really want a TV that has to blow air out loudly because of a processor that gets hot.

First, the TV itself gets hot. SO you have the screen AND the processor that are giving off rather a large amount of heat.....so....cooling solution, anyone?

[wallace1000]

That is pretty impressive.

[g4me_he4d]

cell in ps3, cell in toshiba tv, ps3 with cell in toshiba tv my head hurts. (just a joke)

[stuntman_mike]

im glad i backed off from buying a hd tv early these tvs look good.

[Silver Bull3t]

I'm glad they're finally starting to use the potential of this cpu. Embed a cell in all my A/V gear please. Aren't these things supposed to network nicely as clusters too???

[stennexxx]

Toshiba worked with Sony on the cell chip and tried to be like Nintendo and back stab Sony. Well now they got their arses handed to them. And to my gamer friends who understand technology like i do please let your friends understand that unless M$ is going to build a very fast broadband pipeline the likes in Japan or Singapore, there is no way that you will get movie download quality like what's on the blu-ray discs. Also they would need a massive but costly Hdd to hold all their movies. The PS3 can do all that and more for $399. Just a saying.

[ScottEFresh]

The cell truly is a beast!!! 6 HD channels running at once on one screen? Dirty!

[sevanig]

They are not using the same cell chip as the Ps3, they use one with only 4 spu's... spurs engine

[acdata]

but the ps3 cant up scale 720p to true 1080i xbox360 can do it

[LastDance]

i was just...and i mean JUST playing assassins creed in 1080i on ps3.

Although it looks better in 720p.

So even if you were right i dont think its a good thing. Upscaled is doggy crap.

[ben806]

why is this not in the sony t.v's? all thats comin next year for them is the bravia engine 2. a cell processor both in the ps3 and the sony t.v's would be a good marketing tool.

[Cartesian3D]

they already have the BEST LCD panels in the world (beside Samsung) .. and enough market share for making HuGE profit..

so they dont need to put a Cell processor into their TVs just for marketing!

and with a Good video Source u wont need a Processor in your TV(in near future all Video sources will be in HQ HD),in my opinion this action from Toshiba is temporary

Toshiba wants to make money from Cell production ASAP ,and they will

[bootsielon]

How about banning WageSlave for a change? His verbal diahrrea shouldn't have been posted on the Gamer Zone, why can't anyone reply to him and hand him his ass on a plate for a change?