Video Game Warzone #46: 1080p Native And Why It Shouldn't Matter

Torrence Davis of The Bitbag writes, "On today's show we once again tackle the native 1080p argument. I stress my points as to why it shouldn't matter to gamers if it's native or upscaled. Preference is one thing, but if resolution isn't stopping us from purchasing certain games, does it really matter? Also on this show:

* How to achieve N4G happiness (Torrence)
* Red Faction impressions (Torrence)
* Brink impressions (Hiphopgamer & Torrence)
* Quantum impressions (Hiphopgamer)
* G4TV possibly coming off the air (Hiphopgamer)
* And much much more…"

[ifhd]

1080p dose not Matter only when your game run at 720p and dev claim it run at 1080p.

[nbsmatambo]

havent seen this podcast here in a while..

nwayz, it doesnt matter as long as the end result looks beautiful

[ShinMaster]

I guess it matters most when your trying to play a native 720p game on a 1080p screen.

[error 74]

this podcast is sponsored
by mr windows 7 himself
Torrence Davis

good show
just having fun

[Marcelles25]

A majority of you guys don't have a FULL HD monitor so you can't throw in your opinion

when your playing a game thats not 1080p thats not being upscaled it looks bad and you CAN tell

you see jaggies on games like killzone 2 and when your trying to enjoy the beautiful game it takes away from the experience

plus the whole dev thing lol....

[Tsar4ever01]

Should it matter, don't know. My 40' Samsung does only 720p and strectches up to 1080i, So 1080p doesn't bother me much. I suppose It ONLY matters to all those who own 1080p HDTV's.

[Chubear]

... you guys do know that all this 1080p 720p etc etc talk is all about resolution right? It doens't make graphics better per-say you know?

A game running at 720p on a 32" HDtv has exactly exactly the same look as a game running on a 52' HDtv at 1080p. You don't get better looking graphics just because you have 1080p.

The reason why 1080p can be better is because on HDtvs larger than 32 or 37", the images do get stretched a little bit and to be honest, any normal person can live with 720p on a 53" HDtv. However, 1080p makes sure that the pic isn't stretched so you can now have the full clear and clean experience.

Can you see a difference in 720p to 1080p on a 52" HDtv? YES! most definitely.

Can you see a difference in 720p and 1080p on a 32" HDtv? NO! There'd be no point of 1080p on a 32 or lower HDtv.

1080p does not give you magically better graphics than anyone else, it just makes sure that those with large HDtvs (42" and up) can have the same quality in resolution as those with smaller HDtvs at 720p

[Marcelles25]

thats what i was saying except that no matter what size your playing on if its a 1080p monitor and your playing a 720p game it stretches the picture and it messes up and looks bad

[Mo0eY]

@1.6

LOL. Go play Oblivion on a 1987 19" TV and then play it on a 50" HDTV.

The differences are phenomenal. I know we're not talking about graphics and all that stuff, but by compressing or stretching out images, it looks horrible most of the time.

Oblivion 1987 19" TV = PS2 game
Oblivion on HDTV = PS3 game

Same goes for most other games that I played out there.

[Nihilism]

what you mean like killzone 2? lol it runs at a resolution my pc was using bout 6 years ago 1280*768

[Marcelles25]

whats your point

first killzone runs 720p 0.9 your talking 0.8

and it runs 1.4 or 1080p

and the only game that looks better than Killzone is crysis

and im playing on a 500$ and unless your pc is good it costs at least 700 dollars

[Nihilism]

killzone 2 DOES NOT run at 1080p native, scaled up?, maybe, cutscenes 1080p?, maybe, the game does not run at 1080p in play, kz2 runs at around 30frames at 1280*768 or 800, that's barely playable, and yes running crysis on very high with aa at a 720p res still looks amazing, but 720p is not 1080p, and kz2 runs at 720p

look at wikipedia its all there look around and find out how it REAllY plays....you must have been reading playstation magazine or some other b.s hype....

[Marcelles25]

YOU ARE STUPID AND OBVIOUSLY DIDNT READ MY COMMENTS IN THE FIRST ONE THATS WHAT I WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT KILLZONE NOT BEING 1080P THEREFORE ON MY 1080P TV YOU SEE JAGGIES AND ON MY SECOND COMMENT I SAID......

KILLZONE 2 RUNS 720P .9 NATIVELYYYYYY MEANING IT HAS MORE PIXELS THAN THE RESOLUTION YOUR TALKING ABOUT

I NEVER SAID IT RUNS 1080P NATIVELY I SAID IT RUNS IN IT

I WOULD KNOW WHAT IT RUNS IN BECAUSE I HAVE IT GOT IT DAY ONE

(RANT over)

[Blakzhuk]

Great stuff as usual. I'm tired of the native vs upscaled argument too.

[KingKionic]

yes its up!

[xabmol]

These guys need to learn how to EDIT.

[II Necroplasm II]

LOL Yeah.

Ahhh well, Warzone is good to listen to while high.

[Max Power]

I agree, I am at 20 something minutes and I want them to get the to the chase. But so far, so bueno, prolly won't finish the show.

[Tempist]

I can't decide what's worse, it took them 4 hours to actually do this, or people having to waste 4 hours of their lives listening to this? (I for one stopped after 30s of them trying to figure out what the fcuk they were doing.)

I expect better from all parties on this to have some form of professionalism or polish. Yeah it's unscripted and honest debate, but the fact that you can't do it in a reasonable time peroid leaves me with a lot of questions and critism for all parties involved.

[mario888]

As you know LCd has been the dominate Flat Screen TV. What's funny is when you go Electronic stores like Best Buy or PC Richards they have the 120hz TV split in half with one side running at 120HZ motion control and and the other is regular 60hz LCD.

Now if you go to the store and see them side by side you will notice the inferior picture that all regular LCDs have had all these years . I guess it doesn't matter, lol.. .

Proud Owner of a Panasonic 50 inch 1080P TV.

[i3eyond the Circle]

I have a 120hz..XBR8 and when playing uncharted for example it feels as if Nate is popping out the screen and the difference is very noticeable with 120hz turned off.

It really is an experience not to many get to witness for most 120hz HDTVs are quite expensive.

[KingKionic]

Not when there on sale at tigerdirect.

:D

[Minute Man 721]

my next T.V. 120 or 240 Hz 60". Got a 52" 1080P Aquos

[i3eyond the Circle]

tigerdirect always has the best deals.

240hz T.V. is what I'm aiming for next...it's going to take mass persuasion with the Mrs. but I'll eventually be able to get my hands on one this Holiday.

[Graphics]

In the settings for motion flow is it suppose to be on off, low, or high? and is game mode better than motionflow on videogames? I think i have been gimping my experience...

[jax07]

They dont edit because they want you to hear everything. They have real discussion and everything that needs to be said will be said you understand?

[Forrest Gump]

Actually I believe they don't edit it because they don't know how.If Torrence Davis wants his Podcast to be a quality Podcast he needs to understand that PRESENTATION is key.You can't just record audio and present it without any whatsoever editing,regardless of how 'raw' you want it to be.

I immediately shut off any Podcast that has clipping and a muddy mix,and this is one of them.The sad part is I actually think this could be one of the better Podcasts out there because it's not sponsored by Microsoft like ListenUp :(

[Lifendz]

but Tor is certainly doing his best to get some MS sponsorship. Most of the guys on this show are big MS fanboys. Constant Sony bashing, guys that don't know more than N4G tells them stating it's too late for Sony to do whatever, and one guy that can't express himself w/o using the F word every other sentence.

I had high hopes for the show but I don't like the direction its taken. I guess fanboy fodder gets hits/subscribers but not me.

[xabmol]

Oh, I completely understand that they expect me to listen to small talk, them getting ready, experiencing technical difficulties, and getting a bunch of hits while recording.

However, I just want some gaming talk. Possibly some news or ideas, but sitting through 4 hours of, "Uhm yeah... Oh look I'm getting hits. You guys there? oh he's not here today? Oh, hmm... So what did you guys do today? Blah, Blah Blah." is not something I would consider enjoyable.

Do you understand?

[DMasta718]

Great show as usual, Tor.

Like I was saying in the chat. It should'nt really matter especially to people with TVs 40 inches and less. 720p is good enough this gen. Most games are not even running native 1080p but still look damn good.

And I'm trying out your N4G advice, Tor. Hopefully it works for me lol

Edit: Even though its 4 hours (12 to almost 4am), it's still very interesting and nice to hear from everyone every minute. Also, helps to get more of a understanding from the people arguing amongst each other from both sides.

[TheColbertinator]

It doesn't matter too much but its a nice little feature on the HD consoles.I was real proud to see GT5 Prologue and 09 The Show having almost-true HD because they looked impressive on my Samsung.Its just eye candy and its no big deal just a nice luxury because I care mostly about gameplay hence why I have a Wii and I still play retro games.

[HDgamer]

I do believe G4tv is going off the air. They are showing less game related shows, Aots is only one 4 days a week while Xplay is 3 episodes a week. All these crappy movies keep showing up.

[Max Power]

you don't like cops or cheaters?

[HDgamer]

two things that have nothing to do with gaming

[strend]

Hasn't been the same since they took off The Screen Savers & Call for help

Both were good for finding great little gadgets & Apps

[pixelsword]

To say that upscaled versus native didn't matter would be the same thing as the graphical differences between PS3 and 360 games didn't matter... although people up and down this and many other sites will purchase their games on one or the other console based upon those same slight differences: even if they could not tell the difference themselves or would not know otherwise if they bought the inferior version.

So I must state that I believe that native 1080p games matter.

[Scrooge McDuck]

i forgot Tor is that undercover xbot

[Bladestar]

Native vs upscaled is probably the most important thing to Sony leg humpers... Because it's one of Sony's promises that they are still trying to hang on to. Sony promised native 1080P at 120 FPS for all games...

It hurts them that though Microsoft was right about 720P being the target resolution for developers in general.

Later since Sony made a big deal about 1080P Microsoft added 1080P and hdmi to the xbox 360 to end the ordeal... not because 1080P was important but just to shut the leg humpers.

To make things more obvious and to prove that Microsoft was right... Sony and developers making exclusive PS3 games end up making games not on 1080P as sony promised all games would have... but in 720P.

Sony's biggest games...

Metal Gear 4 = 720P
Kill Zone 2 = 720P
Uncharted = 720P 30FPS

and the list goes on and on...

I find it hilarious that while Sony leg humpers keep trying to make a big deal about native 1080P and how super important it is... a must have... Sony and their exclusive developers keep making games in 720P... what those that tell you about these idiots and Sony?

When a 360 game outputs 1080P they make a big argument about native vs upscale.... when most PS3 games which were promised to be at 1080P... are 720P they don't even mention it...

They argue that Kill Zone 2 has the best graphics ever.. yet the very same game is not 1080P... what does that tell you about how important is 1080P when it comes to graphics...

[ThatCanadianGuy]

k

[II Necroplasm II]

L

[ssipmraw]

killzone 2 - 720p
halo 3 - 640p

720 > 640

PS3 wins

your last statement is flawed by the way bots claim the 360 has the best graphics but many of their games cant do 720p

[Mo0eY]

@3

Please go buy a 50+ inch HDTV and come back to me when you see the differences in 640p/720p/1080p.

[Socomer 1979]

im at a crossroads in my life right now about games that look like crap & games that are so technically beatiful & how much devs pay attention to the littlest details. a 1080p game is like definate day 1 purchase for me.

Games I've Played today:
Valkiria Chronicles
NAruto ultimate storm
Heavonly sword
Infamous
socom confrontation
killzone 2
metal gear online

Tommorow im playing :
motorstorm pacific rift
Resistance 2 from ps home
street fighter IV from ps home
mlb 09 the show
thats my weekend & the week gets even better with the ps3 & PSP.

do you know how many games i have that i dismiss because its pure multiplatform crap?
they arent bad just not the quality im expecting now at 720p, 1080i or 1080p.
1080p means must have to me. I disagree with these fools because i saw Torrences tiny tv & HHG's room looks like it smells like socks. Game on.

[Socomer 1979]

killzone 2 looks like crap at 720.
MGS looks the best at 1080p .

Naruto ultimate storm is played at 720p. anything else & graphics suffer like a sloppy gears of war graphics.

[Jac5al]

Great show as always Tor.

[RumbleFish]

I think it's very easy. 1080p is really important for the few games that are running at native 1080p like e.g. Wipeout, GT 5 P., VF 5, because they look like sh!t on 720p TVs. Most of the games that run in native 720p look better if you don't upscale them, but it's absolutely wrong to say that 1080p doesn't matter.

[LordVonPS3]

I've said this to Torrence and I'll say this to you...

* Wipeout HD is sometimes 1080p native (it has a dynamic frame buffer).

* GT5P is not 1080p native in game (1280x1080 at a 1080p signal), but is 1080p native in the showroom / garage scenes.

* VF5 is not 1080p native (1024x1024 @ 720p and 1024x768 @ 1080p).

... BUT I absolutely agree that it is absolutely wrong to say that 1080p doesn't matter - to fanboys and techies. I've been through this with Torrence and most gamers out there will have 1080i/720p HDTV's. *Most* gamers however, won't even know what 1080p is. Torrence is being fairly generic in his statements and that goes for the dads, boyfriends and unknowing gamers out there.

Keep in mind that the sort of people who post on N4G / other gaming sites are often the type of people who can be bothered to read & discuss articles. These people will have a better idea than most.

[rbluetank]

when you say Brink is on level with Killzone 2. can you please explain? i wanted to know about the atmosphere in Brink. the art direction looks good by the screen shot. killzone 2 looks very darn good and it has Atmosphere. i haven seen any game with this much atmosphere/gun play/graphic combined...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

thanks for the information on R3.. i hope they put that stuff you mention in the game.... that shiaet would be hot!!!

[ivanbez]

I have an XBR bravia so native 1080p all the way

[hatchimatchi]

i don't think it's necessary for all games to be 1080p but it's nice when the option is there.

[kewlkat007]

With consoles already being expensive I doubt most even own a 1080p set. This only matters mostly to fanboys and their superiority rants.

[xabmol]

GoW3 in 1080p looks awesome!!

1080p is awesome!!

I don't care if "most people don't have a 1080p TV. I have one, and 1080p is awesome!!

I wish all games ran in full 1080p!!

Because 1080p IS awesome!!

[kewlkat007]

but with the economic situation, I just cannot see the majority of gamers chasing out just to buy a 1080p set because they want the best experience. Some are fortunate and some are not...in the end I doubt most care.

[bjornbear]

R u crazy? =S....i'll just read news thanks =P

[ActionBastard]

1080p doesn't matter to 720p owners.

[xabmol]

720p doesn't matter to 480i owners.

[xabmol]

Color doesn't matter to Black and White TV owners.

[mac4u10]

Of course it matter its not rocket science plus have a look at how beautiful wipout HD looks hopeful my 360 will be able to archive games of this statue.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

When I put my PS3 in 720p mode the screen looks sharp but the icons have a slight fuzz to them but when it's in 1080p the difference is massive, everything is pure crisp and there's no fuzziness around the XMB icons or the in-game character models.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

By the way Bladestar you are one insecure guy you know that, in every article you blab out your entire family history. This isn't school any more, we're not preparing essays for our English exams on this site, If You failed your English exams then tough luck that's your fault so stop practising your retake exams on N4G.

Your flipping entire comment history is filled with freaking essays & Novels lol.

Games running at native 1080p/120fps will be coming soon

'ONLY ON THE PLAYSTATION 3'

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

Bladestar to run TRUE Next-Gen graphics (PS3 games) in 1080p/60fps is very hard but to run standard slightly upgraded PS2 graphics (360 games) in 1080p/60fps is very easy.

See it's not very hard to understand.

[Bladestar]

Yeah.. as always you failed to counter my point...

Let's see if I dumb it down for you to understand.

You was quick to proclaimed, "TRUE Next-Gen graphics (PS3 games) in 1080p/60fps"...

so, what do you call the games I mentioned above:

Metal Gear 4 = 720P
Kill Zone 2 = 720P
Uncharted = 720P 30FPS

none of these game output at native 1080P... and many other PS3 games...

are they "standard slightly upgraded PS2 graphics"?

by the way... it's kind of dumb that you cannot tell the difference between PS3 output resolution vs 720P, 1080i and 1080P upscale or wherever you want to call it... You go as far as to even indicate that developing for various output resolution is a matter of difficulty when it's all about CPU/GPU/Memory ability to manage it and not code...

Developers making games at 720P vs 1080P in both consoles are not doing it because writing the code is harder or easy.. in many cases this is transparent to developers writing code... but just a matter of the hardware GPU/CPU/Memory not being able to manage the game they envision at 1080P forcing them to do it at 720P...

Educate yourself leg humper.

"Games running at native 1080p/120fps will be coming soon" ahahahaha! Ladies and Gentleman I give you an uneducated baseless comment... this is what happens when someone has no idea how CPU/GPU/Memory works in video games... mmm... who knows maybe Sony will release a memory upgrade in the next PS3 firmware update... mmm.. hopefully Sony upgrade the PS3 Memory from 512MB to 4GB.

[mario888]

Ideally you want your games running at 1080P native. That being said , why does Killzone 2, Metal Gear solid and Uncharted running at 720P set the standards as far as graphics? Food for thought Blade or you could still keep believing what Ms says.

The reason that MS says 720p is all thats needed is because the 360 can only upscale to 1080p. While the ps3 can send the signal natively at 720p, 1080i and 1080p without the use of a upscaler chip. And if you have a 1080p native TV you will get the best possible picture.

FYI: Killzone 2 is native 1080i which at one point was the highest HD Standard until 1080p came out and screwed all the peeps who bought 1080i TVs. Yes, Blade 1080i is higher resolution than 720.

Another example: GT5 runs 1200×1080 is as close to 1080P as you can get as far as racers go. If you run this on a TV that is native 1080p, the TV doesn't have to scale much at all you will get a best possible picture. If GT5 full version comes out at native 1080p the TV does not need to scale all all.

Bottom line Blade , the PS3 is a better hardware when it come to graphics than the xbox 360.

BLADESTAR WROTE:
by the way... it's kind of dumb that you cannot tell the difference between PS3 output resolution vs 720P, 1080i and 1080P upscale or wherever you want to call it...
`````````````
You have a point there. Go into a electronic store when you get a chance soon and look at the new 120HZ tv the are displaying. They usually have the screen split with one side showing regular LCD and one side showing 120hz motion control.

If you had a choice which one would you get? You could get a regular LCD and go home knowing you won't see the difference unless it's side by side, lol.

[jax07]

This pod cast has a very casual flow. Its not an official show more than it is freinds just talking amongst themselves. I like it like this but you know to each his own. Anyway Second thing and anyone can answer this, is there a big difference between how good 1080i and 1080p look?

[the new king 74]

response to hiphop, call of duty waw is not 1080p . they just have it go to 1080p its actually 1024×600. out of all the ps3 games , less than 30 are native 1080p .

[mario888]

As far as the technical aspect of games these guys don't know what they are talking about. Native resolution refers to the original content. All TV have built in scalers and you can also make the PS3 send the signal as 1080p by going into the setting like they say. The tv will then take the signal and scale it 1080p. That being said, just because the tv plays the game at 1080p does not mean it 1080p native.

Torrence keeps trying to pump up Forza by saying that professional drivers used GT because there was no Forsa at the time. Forza's tracks are not 1 to 1 like GT . So if you were to drive 100 miles an hour around the track it will not reflect the actual time if you were to do it on a real track and that why real drivers use GT . Maybe because they used dvd?

LOL, i laugh at them when they say real drivers use Foza. The only real drivers that use Forza's are the one's on MS payroll and they also have a ps3, lol

[the new king 74]

But check the facts gt5 prologue is not true hd . it plays1200×1080 and is upscaled to 1920×1080p.

[mario888]

GT5 resoluton 1200×1080 is as close to 1080P as you can get as far as racers go. Racing car enthusiast should hope that when the full version of GT5 comes out it's truly running at 1920 x 1080.

BY making the game as close as possible to 1920 x 1080 native 1080P native TVs will be not need to upscale and therefore you will truly get the best possible picture possible.

[Stationfan]

Torrence why do you always take jabs at the ps3 community, while at the same time trying to be a spoken for multi console owners.

Be less biased and take jabs at both gaming communities, as both consoles have there faults too. Or does your fanboy googles only register the ps3 faults.

I appreciate your shows but its freaking annoying every time you just single out the ps3 owners.

[tordavis]

Name 3 jabs I've taken at the Playstation community that I haven't taken to the Xbox community.

[Stationfan]

Havent listened to all of it yet, But were did the God of War 2 1080p 60fps come out, isnt it God of War 3. From previous remarks on other podcast about not knowing that the new ps3 sku lacking media slots nowadays,

And making a mistake regarding What God of War number were at, i can tell you dont find it as a priority to be up to date on your ps3 news.

[tordavis]

You haven't made any sense here at all. I said list jabs I've made about the Playstation community.

Your GOW claims are incorrect and who gives a f@ck if I forgot that they took memory slots out of the new PS3's? I have an original with all the slots.

[Stationfan]

To tell you the truth Torrence, i stopped listening after 40 minutes and that Insomniac joke wasnt really funny. I stopped because i got tired of hearing Mothafuk this mothafuk that.

About the media slots, that shows just how informed you stay up on the ps3 side. But i bet you know all about the new xypher, jasper or what ever new sku on the 360 side.

But anyways good day to you sir.