Destiny 2 dev calls enemy scaling "lazy," sparking outrage from Diablo 4 community

A Destiny 2 developer has decided to call the enemy scaling system within Diablo 4 as "lazy," sparking outrage from the community.

[LordoftheCritics]

Agreed.

Lazy af.

D4 is slowly becoming as hated as Immortal.

I'm on Act V and am falling asleep.

[dumahim]

It does feel a bit odd having everything level along with you. Also, seeing someone 20-30 levels below you in the same fight holding their ground because the same level 50 mob is only 20 to them.

[NotoriousWhiz]

I think this is much better. It means people can play with their friends regardless of what level they are and still get a good challenge.

[mgszelda1]

@notoriousWhiz
As an adult with multiple kids I couldn't agree more. My time is not the same as everyone around me so we can be different levels

[Goosejuice]

Idk if I would call it lazy. To me it seems more like they r trying to make it more grindy so u have to play longer. U can't really power lvl anyone because of this like in d3.

[just_looken]

They updates are doing that getting ready for the barttle pass and new wave of mt's

[just_looken]

I finished the campaign on world tier 3 see 4 on the horizon

If you played 2013 diablo 3 you have played diablo 4

On act 4 the final section took me almost 2hours you fight every campaign boss again walk for miles then fight the final boss as she does pre canned attacks.

I died 3 times 2 times were my skills would not work mashing LB but no health for me and oh a soft lock then the final boss a auto death because i fell through the map.

I recorded it all

The enemies just get more sponge or numbers but never more smart and never is oh this is new and fresh sections.

[anast]

This

[just_looken]

I just uploaded that gameplay rouge build first time doing act 4 no guides coop etc.

I went to town used the 30min double damage to demons though it was finial boss time but nope generic boss #4532 time.

After that and a cutscene i lost that dmg boost hazah
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[neutralgamer1992]

I think it should be a option to select whether someone wants to play with enemy scaling or not. Also not surprising that you are not having as much fun. It’s the launch of a new game and like always not many brought yo any micro transactions and instead praised the game because the checks cleared I guess

Very few reviews are now trustable because these reviewers get early access, paid trips and accommodations paid to come play the games and other benefits like special merchandise

It’s best now a days to wait months before touching a new game especially from publishers with history of greed. By waiting developers will patch the game with real feedback and in 4-6 months game will be in better quality

Sadly we are to the point where vast majority of big releases aren’t ready at launch. Look no further than how these so called influencers are praising cyber punk DLC and going as far as to call it a brand new game. First these morons build up hype and than later act like they had nothing to do with hype and setting high expectations

[just_looken]

If you have a copy your should try cyberpunk now i was on it the other night it feels off now on controller its like your a robot/tank turning aiming or moving its all slugish.

Cop ai still spawns around you or in walls i would say 60% of day one issue are still around.

But maxed out pohysco raytracing path tracing it looks amazing dead open world as the civilians just walk like day one or all do the same thing but it looks great.

I expect the dlc to be a short overpriced broken experience.

[neutralgamer1992]

Exactly I have it and you are right. Gamers are quick to defend their favorite games

[Sonic1881]

Before Diablo 4 came out, I was concerned it would follow Immorals and take inspirations from Diablo Immoral. Unfortunately they went that route 😕

[Cockney]

Immoral? A bit harsh, you must be very outraged indeed

[Fishy Fingers]

Seems a bit stupid to me to be so naive. Boarderline d***ish.

Would be lovely if everyone had time to grind in games together, they dont. But as someone who does (lvl 72) with friends who dont (lvl20-30) its great to be able to play together and its not either crushingly difficult or laughably easy for one/some of us.

[luckytrouble]

That's one way to see it. The other way is that it makes progression kind of meaningless. This feels like a game design concept where you simply can't have your cake and eat it too. Someone is always going to be getting the shorter end of the stick.

[JEECE]

Yep. I wish devs would just take the next step in these situations and remove the progression system altogether.

[--Onilink--]

If all that mattered was the level then yes, but that is not the case, just as you continue to level up, you continue to gain additional means to specialize your build in ways you couldn’t before.

Someone who is level 70 or 100 should absolutely have all the tools necessary to be much more effective than someone at a lower level even with the game scaling the enemies for both of them.

And if they are taking the same amount of time to kill an enemy as someone who is 50 levels below them, then that means they made a very poor build, either in terms of skill sinergy, paragon points, effigies and /or gear they are using

[luckytrouble]

But then why have levels? Why not find a different way to organize your progression? At the end of the day if I can effectively stomp the same content at level 20 that you can at level 80, does build even actually matter anyways? It seems more like a game of choosing your own difficulty the long way rather than properly curating the experience. I once again get that from a multiplayer experience it keeps things more seamless, but being that seamless sure seems to indicate everything I may have gotten from higher levels wasn't all that necessary.

[--Onilink--]

Except you cant stomp content at level 80 in the same way you did at 20.

There are entire builds that are perfectly fine for all the way up to 50, but afterwards become completely inefficient for higher leveled content.

In the same regard, you cant actually spec out for some of the best builds in the game until you are higher leveled because you lack either the skill points, the paragon points, the glyphs or just the resources to customize gear in a specific way that you normally wouldn’t have early on.

This also putting aside that you also have full control of the difficulty of the world with the tier system.

[OptimusDK]

Why do you want it to get easy?

[JEECE]

Yep, it's a baseline for me to be interested in a multiplayer game that it's a good experience for everyone in a group, regardless of if they've played 2 hours, 20 hours, or 200 hours. I hate the more modern trend of the full multiplayer experience being locked behind hours of grinding (which creates an obvious opportunity for microtransactions).

That being said, I usually apply this principle more to shooters; for instance, it's one of the reasons L4D is so much better than Back 4 Blood and it's one of the reasons MCC is a better multiplayer experience than most progression system based modern shooters. I can see how someone approaching Diablo from a pure RPG background would get frustrated by this.

[Kaii]

Isn't this obvious though?
Back during the legion expansion I was somewhere on the Broken Shores & a friend messaged me to say "Take off some gear & dps some stuff" It was QUICKER to kill mobs with gear taken off than it was with it on & that instantly removed any sense of RP progression or some sense of attaining power when the illusion was broken immediately, and you can't fix that.

Gear aside you've broken the core thing In these games when it comes to lvling & getting 1 skillpoint does NOT amend or bridge that gap.

[just_looken]

Are you talking about D2 i have not played in awhile

[Kaii]

Taking the gear off was for wows expansion legion

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

The one thing Destiny 2 developers are masters in is "lazy." After 1 expansion and 2 seasons of content, the only weapons that are not reskins are the six from the raid. Plenty of new Eververse cosmetics designs though.

As for difficulty, these same devs just changed Destiny 2 so that you are level-handicapped in most content and will get one-shot if you even step into the new patrol zone before you are max level.

https://www.reddit.com/r/De...

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

It seems like an effort to make it easy for peolple to group up, regardless of personal progress.

Less “lazy” and more most efficient solution.

It would be nice if it was just an option, but I think people that start together will have nothing to complain about, right?

[LordoftheCritics]

''...easy for people to group up...''

There is no matchmaking
There is no group finder
There is no global chat

It's a mostly pretend online game.

[NotoriousWhiz]

While grouping up in the traditional sense is a pain. I do enjoy the random world events that take place where I'll often end up fighting with strangers (who are usually many levels higher than me) and it doesn't make it a cake walk and we both end up having a good experience, getting our own loot, and moving on with our own adventures. For me, this game is several times better than Diablo 3, and may even end up topping my nostalgia with Diablo 2. Having a blast with it.

[slate91]

Scaling enables me to play with my friends who are way different levels than I am. They arent wasting their time and Im not either. Its just a different system with positives and negatives as with other systems.

[Christopher]

This is another opinion-based thing. Both sides are right, they just want different results.

[GameBoyColor]

haha don't wanna hear this from the guys who made a cyberpunk city with nothing in it and the npcs are just digital shards that float around.

[-Foxtrot]

Someone working on Destiny called another game....lazy

Offft. How ironic.

[isarai]

It is though, it also completely ruins the whole aspect of leveling up yourself, like so matter how high level I am everyone will match me? What's the point then? I like it better when there's just different enemies and regions for different levels. Like like wandering into a real f#ck around and find out situation only to return later and crush it as a god.

[franwex]

“Outrage”

[anast]

I just got back into Destiny. There are two quality F2P games out there: Path of Exile and Destiny 2. Make no mistake D$ is a F2P game.

[EmperorDalek]

I was going to buy Diablo 4 until I heard about the scaling system. Way to kill off 80% of the reason to play a game like this, it's not like the combat is anything special by today's standards.

[shinoff2183]

I absolutely hate level scaling in rpgs its annoying. I'll say I don't disagree with the dev cause I don't believe they are wrong.

[jznrpg]

I really don’t like enemy scaling either.

If there’s a game I want to play with friends and they are low level I just make another character or 2 and keep a couple in those ranges.

[HyperMoused]

The reason i dont like it is if i have a boss im having trouble with, i cant just go get stronger and come back, kinda sucks

[VivaChe]

Why not have an option to turn on/off?

[tienchiase]

very nice

[Kosic]

I don't mind it in this game. As the leveling experience can be rather quick at lower levels. I'm level 27 and I have yet completed the first act, as I went of completing dungeons and side quests. Now imagine without the world scaling around me, I'd be doing content that isn't as related to my level.

For other games, I agree having a world where it pushes you to explore because you begin out leveling makes sense.

It could be considered lazy design. But if I look at borderlands and you complete the game at level 30 and have to rerun it twice to hit end game. That is lazy. Especially when all they're doing is increases the world damage, health etc by X amount. You end up with a broken game that can one shot you from a distance due to no fine tuning.

[Neonridr]

no offense, but any Destiny dev calling out anything else as lazy is ironic AF.

[gleepot]

HAHAHAHA Go back to sleep bungie, you're drunk.

I can't think of a lazier and more out of touch developer than Bungie with how they continually shoot themselves in the foot with Destiny.

[mastershredder]

Two toxic as F communities. It’s like shi7 calling sh7, shi7. Let that spark some “outrage”.

[GamesAsAService]

He is 100% right.

Enemies becoming bullet sponges is very lazy game design.

If you have two identical in-game activities and one is supposed to be a harder version for better rewards, then throw in some new game mechanics, or enemy attack styles or movements. Anything is better than just increasing their health.

[Tzuno]

Mhm, community manager responded to this while on official forums they don't even respond