730°

Did Sony Lie about SSD? PS3 could run PS5 Ratchet & Clank Gameplay

Jon Burton "In this episode of Coding Secrets I look at how the Rift Gameplay in Ratchet & Clank can be achieved on much older hardware with no SSD. Don't agree?"

Jin_Sakai1012d ago (Edited 1012d ago )

But at what level? Even if it’s possible it wouldn’t be anywhere near the extent of the PS5 levels.

Babadook71010d ago (Edited 1010d ago )

Exactly.

'Store both alternate dimensions in RAM at 100th the quality? See it works! '

No. It doesn't. You need a fast SSD for this fidelity. PS3 (and PS4) LODs would be trash.

1010d ago
bouzebbal1010d ago (Edited 1010d ago )

There is a lot of PR into that and ps5 is optimized to take advantage of SSD… but ps3 is also a very special piece of tech that still remains a mystery today..

abstractel1010d ago

The question should really be "Can you run Ratchet and Clank PS4 (2016) but also add in switching between levels within a second?". The answer is no, so there's no lie. On top of all that, Insomniac also made a game that looks better than every other console game out there, even including performance demanding tech like raytracing.

I imagine this clever guy knows this but figured it'd be an awesome clickbait video.

Eonjay1010d ago

There are two separate uses in this game being discussed.

The first are the pocket dimensions. They are standard viewport hacks as described by Insomniac in its interview with Digital Foundry. This technique is quite common and Insomniac in no way asserted that it was because of the SSD. They were very clear.

The second are full dimension teleporting. These are not possible on the PS3 or PS4. These are instances where an entire level is loaded into memory from SSD in what is practically an instant. These are not persistent in memory. They are actually loaded on the fly, quite literally. There is no way the older consoles could stream this amount of data so quickly. The PS4 drive could achieve like 100 MB/s. With Compression on PS5 this reaches 9GB/s This is a gigantic jump gen on gen. Imagine if there was a similar 50x jump to the GPU? Thats the kind of advantage PS5 SSD has over PS4 HDD.

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Outside_ofthe_Box1010d ago

Isn't saying that the PS3 could run Rachet as is, more disingenuous then saying the SSD makes it only possible on PS5?

FYI companies say this all time. "Such and such is only possible on ________ console" When in reality you could always scale stuff back to make it possible. Last of Us II for example could run on PS3 if you scale back quality, but I don't think anyone would take issue with Sony saying it's only possible on PS4 hardware, besides Jon Burton maybe.

Lexreborn21010d ago

If you are scaling back to run on something and cutting content/level design to make it work. It’s not possible.
The last of us 1 remastered on PS4 is not possible on ps3. PS3 could only output 720p 30. PS4 could do 1080p 60 and pro did 4K none of which is possible on PS3.

Since PS3 and ps4 days devs have been saying the limits of the devices stop them from innovative ideas. Rocksteady wanted the bat mobile in Arkham city. It wasn’t possible on 360 and PS3.

But it was fully realized on PS4 and Xbone. Rift apart would have to be butchered to make it work on PS3 that’s not the same game if you have to butcher it.

Outside_ofthe_Box1010d ago (Edited 1010d ago )

"Rift apart would have to be butchered to make it work on PS3 that’s not the same game if you have to butcher it."

Which is my point. It's ironic that this guy Burton is accusing Sony of "lying" while saying that Rift Apart can run on PS3 which in itself is a "lie."

"If you are scaling back to run on something and cutting content/level design to make it work. It’s not possible."

I agree with that and should have made it more clear. I'm saying that if you're gonna say that game can run on old hardware if you cut back "such and such" or do something differently to achieve similar yet inferior effect then you can say that about any game. Was using Last of Us as an example in saying Burton (or any one of us) wouldn't dare say that Last of Us II is possible on PS3, yet he said it here for Rift Apart which is silly.

Kosic1010d ago (Edited 1010d ago )

It's the same with the Nintendo switch to get games to run on that you get a lower resolution/graphic setting version of the game.

And tbh it is the same game. Not the same experience. Its once you cut content out that's where the game is not the same.

The game is the puzzles, the controls, the levels. A game isn't the graphic level.
We grew up not caring about graphics because you could experience a game with low quality graphics and be amazing.
Where as you could have a rubbish/bare bones game that looks great.

JackBNimble1010d ago

One thing I do know is R&C could run on current gen consoles . This magic ssd was either a flat out lie or extremely exaggerated and misleading.

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badz1491010d ago

Is this guy Phil Spencer? Talk is cheap!

Tapani1010d ago

This whole video is completely BS. The amount of data in the pipeline is multiple times larger than what it was in PS3 era, it is tenfold or hundred fold, depending on the game.

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1010d ago Replies(3)
neutralgamer19921010d ago (Edited 1010d ago )

But is that really a dog at next generation consoles or ssd? Because PS3 was quite powerful for it's time. Jak and Dexter didn't have load screens and that was on PS2. I am ready for days of no load screens. When I played HZD fast travel took over a minute to load and that's one of my favorites games of all time

Christopher1010d ago

To say "the exact same thing" is massively disingenuous here.

Miles Morales is on PS4, but those instant reloads and whatnot are not on there at all. Both are loading environments, but why can't they load that environment as quickly and seamlessly as you can on PS5? Obviously there *something* there that makes it possible.

R&Ccan absolutely run on PS4/PS3, but those on rail scenes to control loading would be much longer as would those scenes where it's not on rails would suddenly have loading screens or loading animations/scenes.

Sciurus_vulgaris1011d ago

There is a level in Titanfall 2 named Effect and Cause. The previously mentioned level allows players to nearly instantly switch between two different variants of the same map due to rapid time travel. When switching time periods, enemies and the overall environment change. Titanfall 2 was released last gen for the XB1 and PS4.

I’m not a game developer. I don’t think it is not unreasonable to state that Rift Apart maybe technically possible on the PS4 with increased loading and decreased visuals. However, the smooth,rapid, essentially loading free transitions between world and dimensions of an integral feature of Rift Apart.

LordoftheCritics1010d ago

That was a very cool lvl in Titanfall 2. The entire campaign was slick.

Sciurus_vulgaris1010d ago (Edited 1010d ago )

Titanfall 2 reminded me of Half-Life 2, every level was unique.

VersusDMC1010d ago

I haven't played Ratchet yet so do you Rift into totally different environments?
I've seen videos where the scenery changes from city to jungle in seconds.

Because in Titanfall 2(that I've beaten) the level that is brought up all the time is just a cosmetic change to the same environment. Facility in the present ruined but still just the same environment and the Past where the same environment is cleaner. They do the same in dead space with hallucinations when the same room will all of a sudden have a bunch of extra assets appear out of nowhere but it is just the same room.

I don't think we can call it the same thing.

PS. Titanfall 2 Campain is totally underrated and super cheap. Pick it up.

KeyAppearance1010d ago

Yep, exactly this! As excellent as that level and the whole campaign was, it was much less resource-intensive than loading in brand new environments

Bathyj1010d ago (Edited 1010d ago )

You can not only step through a portal into a totally new environment and back again, you can stand there and see that environment before you step into it and even walk around the portal behind it while remaining in the original environment and see there nothing on the back of the portal, meaning that yes it is not some cheap trick where it's essentially the same environment already loaded with a different aesthetic. It really is loading in a completely new level in an instant.

1010d ago
Teflon021010d ago

Yeah in Ratchet, there's a world that you hit a crystal and it instantly changed the world. While it's the same world. It's layout is completely changed and it's loading an entirely different stage. There's a big difference between it and little tricks like changing textures and loading 2 areas at once in lower poly counts and shifting a character between them. There's big limitations to tricks vs legit doing it

Fluke_Skywalker1010d ago

@JustTheFax That's not true at all, there are pocket dimensions in every level where you walk through portals into completely different worlds that ar just instantly there. Also as @Teflon says there are levels where you smack a crystal and the whole world changes in a flash instantly.

KillBill1010d ago

If you read on what devs commented on Ratchet & Clank they commented on many of the assets already being present as well use of simple skydomes. Watch the video and you will understand that the so called "completely different environment" really aren't what you imagine them to be.

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yeahokwhatever1010d ago

other games have done the dual times in 1 area. what makes that different is that you're juggling some of the assets, not entirely different open world maps.

darthv721011d ago

It could have certainly been on the PS4 (with rifts) but im not so sure about the PS3. Graphically sure, given how good Crack in time is but the fast loading of the rifts could have posed a problem.

I_am_Batman1011d ago (Edited 1011d ago )

In principle it would've been easier to do something similar on PS3 than PS4 (at much lower asset quality/density of course). The reason is that the ratio between mass storage bandwidth and memory was more favourable on the PS3, especially when a large portion of the game's data was installed on the HDD. The PS4 had a really bad ratio which lead to a lot of memory being wasted because assets would have to be preloaded very early. To make this work devs had to implement effective ways to predict what data will be needed.

The PS5 pretty much flipped that ratio on it's head. It takes a while for game engines to catch up to the paradim shift. As we move away from the cross-gen window I expect to see the asset streaming bandwidth being utilized more freely without relying on scripted set pieces so much.

Kavorklestein1010d ago

No paradigm shifted. It's just loading stuff as you approach the object it knows you will inevitably SMACK because obviously you will. It's a feature made more possible with fast SSD speeds but it's not revolutionary.
It is, however, neat.

I_am_Batman1010d ago (Edited 1010d ago )

@Kavorklestein: The shifting paradign is the development environment. Ratchet & Clank is built with an early and evolving toolkit which has it's roots in the last generation. Going from 2 minutes to fill the entire memory on PS4 to just over 2 seconds on PS5 requires a complete makeover of the asset streaming pipeline. It'll take time until devs can fully unlock and utilize the PS5's potential. As cool as Ratchet & Clank is (and it is pretty cool), we haven't seen nothing yet.

ecchiless1011d ago

that guy have to delete and reupload his video.... check the first comment on the video to know why. The guy seems to have a beef with imsoniac... maybe cause they dont hire him xD

Christopher1009d ago (Edited 1009d ago )

If people don't know what this is talking about, he deleted a whole portion of the video that goes against his whole argument. That being about the crystal whacking to change environments which weren't explained by any of his other items. It was instantaneous and loaded whole new environments. But he removed it to make his argument stronger for the parts he wanted and ignored the parts where it didn't fit.

Very disingenuous presentation of arguments when I found out about this. Very Anita Sarkeesian of him.

ecchiless1009d ago

yea the guy is pathetic, a salty dev for sure, variant from youtube got him in the lie.
An example from Youtube comment section:
VariantAEC

What is being done cannot be done without those smart optimizations he mentioned which is very different from what is being done here. What he thinks is level streaming just isn't and he does (right before ending the video admit that) so he actually is the one who is lying here.
This game would not run as well without ultrafast I/O.

VariantAEC1004d ago

@ecchiless
Thanks, it's nice to know some people read my comments and understand them.

What annoyed me most about his video is that he does know what he's talking about but chooses to deliberately claim that the ultrafast switching to two stages would be possible as is on much slower hardware regardless.
Jak III's opening cinematic shows us that couldn't happen; it would take too long.

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510°

Days Gone Director Says Bend's Project Costs Over $250M; Says PS Co-CEO Doesn't Want 2 Zombies Games

Days Gone director claims Sony has already poured in at least a $250M in Bend's project; says Days Gone sold more than Death Stranding.

shinoff21832d ago

Well that sucks. Seems they want more online trash. I'd rather of had the sequel if it was single player

MrNinosan2d ago

What online trash games did PS Studios release last 10 years?

Notellin2d ago

The past has nothing to do with the future. This is such a terrible argument. Everyone knows about their current live service push.

_SilverHawk_2d ago

It's so tragic what happened to days gone. It is such an amazing game but bandwagoners trashed it and it underperformed in it's launch year. Days gone is the best open world zombie game released in the past five years. I was recently playing it on pc and I'm still amazed by it.

Games are very expensive to make and it seems like it's normal for a AAA game to cost over a quarter billion to make so if a quality game like days gone greatly underperforms then people shouldn't be upset when they see a lot of GAAS. I still remember a lot of bandwagoners calling days gone trash but years later it's now amazing when it's considered a failure by sony.

If a game isn't the best thing seen since hats with pockets then a lot of gamers who haven't played it automatically calls it rubbish and whoever made it should be incarcerated

Cacabunga2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Co CEO prefers gamers to boycott.. so be it. I’ll never buy a gaas.
Just imagine buying a game you cannot replay in some years.. this shit must stop.

Days Gone did zombies in a very original way. The story was also so engaging. You actually only meet Zombie hordes later in the game. There are many more enemy groups to deal with.

MrNinosan2d ago

@Notelin
I am one of the few who bought Days Gone on release day and loved it completely.
However, "more online trash" is phrased like Sony has put out alot of trash online games.
We got what, 2 games? Helldivers 2 and GT7, 2 of the most sold Playstation games where both is loved by millions.

You, me and especially shinoff has no idea if Fairgames, Marathon and Concord will be trash.

Just because we (as in you and me) don't love or support online games, doesn't mean millions of other do.

And we don't know what Bend Studio is working with? We don't know if they're forced to make a online game or another amazing single player experience.

The only thing we do know is that it's not Days Gone, sadly due to poor sales the first 6 months.

shinoff21831d 22h ago (Edited 1d 22h ago )

More online trash wasmt meant how insee it comes across. I should've worded it different I was meaning the focus they currently have on it.

Anything online is online trash to me. How long did naughty dog spend on that dumba last of us multiplayer, how about Concord, or even the other couple we hear about. I fk with Sony because rpgs and their 1st party single player games. Been like that for years. I hate seeing them waste time, money, and talent on trash. I understand bot every game is gonna be for me but this focus they've seem to had on multiplayer is extremely disheartening. Even at the state of play the only things I was really feeling were Astrobot and silent hill 2 and I'm content with that, not everything is for me. It's just the online focus I hate. Ms bought up 3 to 4 wrpgs developers, Sony just ignores rpgs 1st party wise.

And a days gone 2 would've been much better then whatever online sht bend is working on. I do know sometimes I get very idk emotional. I do need to work on toning that down a bit lol

SimpleDad1d 12h ago

Ammm let's see... That All-stars, Foamstars, Babilon 5 wass gaas...
Concord... can wait to play that...Marathon uuuu... Last of them gaas... U
Horizon Zero dawn has a project that leaked as a Fortnite lookalike.

They bought Destiny that is a dead gaas...people love ti.

Helldivers 2 was luck.

Jimbo was all in and pushed Sony single player games 5 years behind.

Spiderman gaas was cancelled... I mean every 1st party studio was doing gaas.

Bend had to pitch a gaas game... Open world coop something

I can't remember more... Of that crap.

tay87011d 11h ago

@simpledad. Destiny 2 isn't a dead game. Its the number 5 most played game on steam. I dont play it, but alot of people do.

MrNinosan1d 6h ago

@SimpleDad
You failed to mention a single PS Studios game that has been released last 10 years.
Either your reading skills are crap or you think Sony own every studio in the world.

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just_looken1d 6h ago

I rolled my eyes at concord not only was it just yet another cookie cutter hero shooter but that qucik look for the hero select.

Already has a free section then paid section along with a they/them she/her dei crap top right.

Nothing like a day off of work to fire up concord to read about the new characters sexual identity and or preference then a paywall do you want o buy this character shit like no i just want to shoot my gun have fun.

-Foxtrot2d ago

It would be a shame if it was true that Hermen never gave the franchise a chance simply because he didn't like it and they already had a "Zombie" game with TLOU.

NaughtyDog are most likely moving onto a new IP next so it would have been the perfect time to do it.

ThinkThink2d ago

Here's where xbox steps in and releases state of decay 3 day and date on ps5.

shinoff21831d 22h ago

I mean it's not out of the realm of possibility at this point.

Grilla2d ago

Days gone 2 was canceled before Herman was in charge. That happened like 4 years ago.

vfl5232d ago

4 years ago he was head of Playstation Studios. He would've probably had a hand in the cancelation.

Notellin2d ago

Man two seconds of research could have saved you from this comment. Amazing work Grilla you fit in with the uniformed N4G community who speaks before verifying anything that they say.

Redemption-642d ago

Maybe encourage people to buy the game at full price and not when it's heavily discounted or go on plus. If this game had sold well when it was full priced a sequel would have been in the works. They made a single-player game that most people didn't support until they dropped the price.

Cacabunga2d ago

The guy’s just a moron.. he should have stayed within game development. His choices will have a terrible impact on the brand in the long run.

tay87011d 15h ago (Edited 1d 15h ago )

Dude is pretty pathetic. Sounds like a guy who's girl left him for someone better. Always talking about days gone sequel that never was, even though he is no longer at bend and hasnt been for a while. I for one am not upset about the lack of a sequel. It is one of the worst 1st party games in recent memory. Completely jank, played like an xbox game. The only redeeming quality was the hordes.

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excaliburps2d ago

Yep. Kind of weird since it wasn't a sales flop, no?

I know we have to take what Ross says with a grain of salt since we're hearing just one side of the story, but even so, the game wasn't bad at all. Heck, it's my brother's favorite last-gen game from what I recall.

The amount of zombies on screen, imagine that with the PS5 and SSD? That would be insanely fun!

Grilla2d ago

Most copies were sold on sale. Not enough ppl bought it at full price. I paid 20$ for it 6 -7 months after release.

Notellin2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Yeah we should never believe the creators side until we hear the corporate/big business side as history has shown we should always believe billion dollar corporations.

What a bootlicker statement.

derek1d 23h ago

@Notellin, of course you'll believe an embittered ex-employee with an axe to grind because it's evil Sony he's complaining about. You guys act like days gone was this huge success and somehow Sony hates easy money a sequel would have generated. The game was mid and so was the response to it. They're still supporting the developer who is making a new ip that could be great.

shinoff21831d 22h ago

Days gone was fantastic. I bought day one but didn't get around to it for months. When I finally did I was pissed at myself for waiting so long lol

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P_Bomb2d ago

Well I don’t want 10 live service games, but they have no problem doing that lol. Ugh.

CrimsonWing692d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Oh great so we only get what the big wigs want… y’know, the people that really have their fingers on the pulse of what their consumers want. Faaaaantastic!

rippermcrip2d ago

Well consider they know the sales... they do know what the consumer wants.

It sold shit.

-Foxtrot1d 22h ago (Edited 1d 22h ago )

But if it’s true what this guy says it sold better than Death Stranding

Yet that got a sequel and Kojima aside out of them both DS didn’t really NEED a sequel compared to Days Gone which ended on such a cliff hanger twist.

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60°

Greetings from the newly minted CEO - Shams Jorjani

Operating under the username BigKahuna_AGS, Jorjani created a lengthy thread on the Helldivers subreddit to introduce himself to the community following his appointment as CEO in early May.

50°

Frostpunk 2 Dev Talks Creative Risks, Supply and Demand, and More

Game Rant speaks with Frostpunk 2 co-game director and design director Jakub Stokalski about everything 11 bit poured into the sequel.

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