Microsoft says gaming companies must ‘do more’ to curb overuse ahead of WHO 'addiction' ruling

Dave McCarthy, head of operations at Xbox ,told The Telegraph that he wants to “push the industry to recognise that it is challenging to be a parent and manage digital and online.”

[fathertime4464]

How about the WHO come up with a program for the parental sickness that afflictly most parents. You know the one, it's where a parent blames 90 percent of their kids problems on everyone and everything else and let's their kid do what ever it wants instead of parenting

[KillMePrettyPlease]

That's what you call a passive aggressive parent.

[gidocem]

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[andibandit]

"let's their kid do what ever it wants instead of parenting"

If I let my daughter do that, she'd be glued to the ipad 16 hours a day.

[blacktiger]

that's bad parenting that kids don't know what they want and how to deal with it,

[81BX]

Actually that's pretty damn good parenting. He now only has 8hrs to not screw up! Excellent plan.

[TacoTaco]

Sounds like the post of someone upset they're being labeled and they don't wanna because it's their parent's fault.

[The_Sage]

Being a parent is about setting boundaries and limits and enforcing them. If your child is behaving in an unacceptable way it your fault. Period.

[GtPawnSacrifices]

You mean like this?
https://www.news.com.au/lif...

Step 1: Turn the internet off 🤪

[Seraphim]

Everything is caused by an outside source. It's not my fault, it's *fill in the blank.* There is absolutely no accountability with far too many people and parents.

it does seem like there are far too many bad and absentee parents nowadays. To be fair there's certainly plenty of others who do parent or at least try. between both groups there are certainly people who can't take responsibility for lack of their parenting. I can't get my kid off their tablet. Well yeah you gave it to them when they were 3 so they wouldn't bother you and they became accustomed to being on it the entire time they're at home. Thing is we're not animals. We don't give birth, nurse them for a few months then let them loose on the world. We have to instill values, set routines, teach, play, etc our kids from birth until they're adults.

Having said that idk that any console manufacturer has a responsibility. I guess they could all come together for a campaign targeting parents to inform them of what should be common sense. Excessive use is not good and could lead to problems for their children... Not sure what parental features the consoles do have but I suppose, if not present already, giving parents the ability to set time limits for their kids.

[trooper_]

Absolutely true.

[Rude-ro]

😂 although true.. the average age of the gamer is 21-35.
It effects adults more than children.

[Godmars290]

That's called stupidity. There's no real cure for that...

[bluefox755]

100%.

[gamer7804]

hah, this 100% , but this way neither the gamer nor the parent has to take any responsibility, its now the government's fault.

[rainslacker]

Why must game companies do more to curb overuse? What could they possibly do that they already don't? Parental controls are there. I think Xbox, or maybe it's PS, has a feature that can alert you at regular intervals about how much time you're playing. none of this is relevant to adults who own their own systems, and don't use the features, so realistically, outside of having a nanny installed at an OS or game level to cut your time down arbitrarily based on what someone feels you should be playing as a normal person, what can be done? Add a disclaimer that maybe if you play a lot of games, or play for a lot of time, that you may have an addiction? Such disclaimers don't work, although there is nothing wrong with maybe informing people and offering a way to get help if they want it.

I can sometimes game for a whole weekend if it's raining outside, or too cold to work in the shop, or during the week if I don't have much else going on. I can devote a lot of hours to gaming...well beyond what a normal person does. I find time during my lunch breaks to play a bit as well. I don't shirk my responsibilities, and there is no way for a publisher or console maker to discern if I am an addict, or have a disorder, of if I'm just someone who really likes to play games.

If the WHO wants to classify gaming addiction as a disorder, that's fine, but there is more to it than just saying it exists. There needs to be root causes listed, as well as potential treatments. Studies have to be done to ascertain that kind of thing, and about the only studies I see nowadays are some non-peer reviewed studies which come to arbitrary conclusions, and state that gaming can produce chemicals in the brain. Neither of which suggests that gaming is addictive, or that it can be a disorder on it's own.

I would like statistics on those who are diagnosed with this disorder, how many of them are also diagnosed with other things like depression, social anxiety disorder, ADD/ADHD, or some other less common disorder which causes people to not be active in society or place the wrong importance on the wrong things.

[l33t_haxx0r]

I'm not reading this, post is to long

[rainslacker]

Thanks for the constructive input I guess.

[Ricegum]

No one asked you to read it. Move along Xbox troll.

[Rimeskeem]

I have an easier time reading that entire post than trying to figure out your name.

[Smokehouse]

When have you ever heard of a company trying to “curb” the use of their own products lmao. This is stupid. “WHO” is exactly right, who the hell are they to determine anything? So these guys at combobreaker that practice 6-7 hours a day on fighting games have a disorder?

[DarXyde]

I might be the only one in this topic who is intimately familiar with WHO by nature of work and connections, but I think you are misguided.

Much like the APA (American Psychiatric Association), when things are classified as disorders, there is very strict criteria that rules out other causes and must persist for a certain amount of time and impact activities of daily living. In this case, it is the International Classification of Disease. For example, diagnosing something like premature ejaculation is ruled out if it is not a problem-- that is, it cannot be diagnosed if someone is content with their performance. Likewise, some mental disorder diagnoses are ruled out if it is not better explained by another phenomenon. You cannot, for instance, diagnose someone with a psychotic disorder if they use meth and are not detoxed before assessment.

In the case of gaming and training, I guarantee there will be a clear criteria that outlines something along the lines of "difficulty stopping" and impacting their abilities to take care of themselves, which goes into the territory of being gravely disabled. There is a reason why it takes a long time for the considerations we hear about to take effect. It will include things like duration, specifiers based on severity, and strict qualifying factors that address context.

I assure you, the WHO is quite comprehensive.

[rainslacker]

@Dark

That still doesn't answer why the gaming companies are responsible for deciding how to handle it. It's not like smoking, where the most they did in the US was require warning labels which didn't do anything. I doubt they'd say they couldn't advertise the stuff anymore. Disclaimers already exist, and there are parental controls.

I just fail to see what more gaming companies must do to curb overuse, because at the core of the terminology, it requires "overuse" be defined. I can play up to 40 hours a week. Sometimes more if I'm on vacation without much to do. I easily get in 20 hours a week either way. Am I addicted, or do I just really enjoy playing games? I mean, I guess I could watch TV or read instead, but games are more satisfying. But, how are console makers or publishers able to determine if I'm just an avid gamer, or if my play time is excessive and how are they able to tell if I"m shirking other responsibilities that would make it more of an addiction?

How are gaming companies able to curb something beyond education, and do we need more disclaimers at the start of our games, which no one reads anyways? The WHO is more than capable of educating people if it's an issue, but MS and Sony coming around talking like it's an immediate action item, and like there is much more they can do, just for the PR of it, is not constructive, and it's premature until the WHO actually does define it.

I don't suspect the WHO will try to get governments to regulate gaming because of it or anything, but even as a gamer who follows gamers, and hears about these cases at times, they seem exceedingly rare in the bigger picture, and again, if I had to guess, addiction to gaming isn't the disorder, but the need to suppliment other parts of their life, which they achieve through gaming.

I don't take issue with the WHO defining it as an addiction disorder. I take issue with others acting like they need to do something without understanding how it's defined, or the pandering that they're using to try and look good in the press. It's a serious issue for some, that the game industry has no responsibility for, and has no logical means of helping other people with before it becomes a problem for those people. If they want to set up education funds through the ESA or something, that's cool I guess.

[gamer7804]

this is mostly just talk, they'll add a feature like a warning when you've played so long, like popping up a warning like Kinect did saying you've been playing for an hour you want to take a break? or more parental control features. This really won't affect anything. I'm more concerned with censorship.

[DarXyde]

rainslacker,
"That still doesn't answer why the gaming companies are responsible for deciding how to handle it.”
Gaming companies are NOT responsible for handling it yet, but Microsoft's statement is about preempting policy.
“It's not like smoking, where the most they did in the US was require warning labels which didn't do anything."
Smoking is outright unhealthy. Gaming has bad components praying on addictive aspects of the human psyche, but not necessarily; disciplined, self-controlled smokers indulge in poor behavior every time they smoke, but gaming has not been found to be outright unhealthy.

"I just fail to see what more gaming companies must do to curb overuse, because at the core of the terminology, it requires "overuse" be defined."

It is. Per the article: “[a] pattern of gaming behaviour characterised by impaired control over gaming.” Addiction of any substance/behavior is explicit in that overuse is basically an inability to quit despite consequences. The ICD-10 is freely available, so I encourage you to look at some of the existing criteria.

"How are gaming companies able to curb something beyond education, and do we need more disclaimers at the start of our games, which no one reads anyways?”
Industry actions would likely work to mitigate some of the addictive practices associated with gaming (loot boxes, excessive grinding).

"I don't suspect the WHO will try to get governments to regulate gaming because of it or anything, but even as a gamer who follows gamers, and hears about these cases at times, they seem exceedingly rare in the bigger picture, and again, if I had to guess, addiction to gaming isn't the disorder, but the need to suppliment other parts of their life, which they achieve through gaming"

Did you know that many people with drug addiction abuse substances as a means of coping with trauma? Addiction in general is frequently a coping mechanism, not supplementation: biting nails to quell anxiety, getting a fix to dissociate, gaming extensively to compartmentalize stress or assuage feelings of social unfulfillment.

As a branch of an intergovernmental entity, WHO will not regulate governments. WHO's role is essentially influencing public policy/advocacy, intervening with epidemics/pandemics, and mitigating health concerns of developing nations by developing programs & assessment tools directed at providing infrastructure and compliance with minimum standards.

"I don't take issue with the WHO defining it as an addiction disorder. I take issue with others acting like they need to do something without understanding how it's defined, or the pandering that they're using to try and look good in the press. It's a serious issue for some, that the game industry has no responsibility for, and has no logical means of helping other people with before it becomes a problem for those people."

I understand your point that it is difficult to address something that has yet to be published, but it’s proaction over reaction. Is it for good press? Probably. But it hardly matters if they end up making good on their statements without intervention. I disagree that no logical means of prevention exist. Identifying addicting aspects and understanding how long an issue has presented itself are important: what are frequently played games? What games have the highest amount of gameplay hours per person? Are there commonalities? With some demographic probing and statistics, reliable factors that predict gaming addiction can be established—probably loot boxes and heavy grinding. Things can be done, and I believe you underestimate how prevention is possible.

[rainslacker]

Except MS is stating that they "must" do something to curb overuse. I understand they should do this ahead of policy, but a WHO policy won't have any affect on the actual selling or usage of video games, because one can't just judge if a person is addicted based on play time. Even if WHO affects policy, I'm not sure what kind of regulatory policies can be officially made that would be legal. It requires a clinical diagnosis. Unless the WHO ruling somehow incites panic and everyone thinks that gamers are somehow addicted, in which case, just par for the course, as the media will play it's part to make a mountain out of a molehill, and we'll just be back to where we were in the 80's and 90's, where all gamers were apparently bad people with no life.

Except there are more gamers now, both casual and hardcore, and there will be those who play games, but think they aren't as bad as those they'd judge. Like the people who say bad things about people who smoke pot, then pour themselves a drink.

"The ICD-10 is freely available, so I encourage you to look at some of the existing criteria."

That's not the issue I take from all this, although I've touched on it a bit here or there. My issue is what can they do to curb it more than they are already doing? And despite classification, if it happens or not, how could these companies or publishers possibly hope to determine if someone needs help. About all they can do is inform, or maybe set up fuding for help. I think either Sony or MS already have a thing that lets you know if you've played too much. It's an optional feature though. But beyond that, are they going to stop your ability to play a game?

Addiction, in most cases, isn't something that can just be stopped by an intervention. An intervention isn't about solving the problem, it's about getting people to see they have a problem, and hopefully wanting to get help. About all these companies can do is maybe intervene, but they can't go too far, because it's too assumptive on their part to say that someone is actually addicted.

"Industry actions would likely work to mitigate some of the addictive practices associated with gaming (loot boxes, excessive grinding)."

Yeah....that's not going to happen. Quite the opposite really.

"Did you know that many people with drug addiction abuse substances as a means of coping with trauma"

Yes, and I feel gaming addiction is likely more often a replacement for some other disorder or mental condition, as it will fill a need in the person.

"but it’s proaction over reaction."

No, it's no action as of now. It's pandering by saying that something needs to be done. Sony did it too. Neither has committed to anything, and saying they need to do something, as if they can do something, despite obviously not appearing like they even have an inkling of what to do, is more for PR, than it is to make it seem like they can somehow do more than they're doing. It's a temporary way to keep the spotlight off them, by acting like the sympathetic supporter. It can grow from that, but the current statements from both companies don't really do that, and I feel they've done about all they can do at this point without getting directly involved in people's lives. This doesn't mean they can't offer funding for information services, or even to help people who need help. Like lotteries or cigarette companies have their addiction hotlines.

[Godmars290]

Honestly? Because they've based their game design models on addictive traits.

[l33t_haxx0r]

You actually read all of that?

[theshredded]

Mp grindy tactics should be cut back and made better. Like Why should I take more time time to level up in COD nowadays and why does Rainbow Six coming with only one operator still a thing? The people who don't complain are stupid idiots that are asking to be abused.

[Angerfist]

The same WHO that says you are mentally sane when you mutilate yourself cause you feel you have the wrong sex.

[CaitSith]

What do you know, you're a cis gendered white man! My body, my choice, you POS! /s

[DarXyde]

ICD codes:

F64.0
F64.1
F64.2
F64.8
F64.9

Do your research. It saves you this kind of embarrassment.

[Rimeskeem]

The brain works in mysterious ways, there is a lot of science behind that whole thought process. You should research it, seriously, its interesting and it will educate people so they dont make naive assumptions.

[Cikatriz_ESP]

Science? Pssh. Everyone knows the human body is governed by politics.

[rainslacker]

Generally speaking, anyone that willingly mutilated themselves, would be classified as insane. Aren't there actual names disorders for people who do that without the impetus of gender association being a factor? Why is it not the case because one also feels they are the wrong gender.

Gender is a physical trait. It's pretty irrefutable, and based on rather defined metrics. There is actually more than Male and female, but for those with specific genetalia, they are that gender.

How they feel about it is more based on sociological beliefs on how a person should feel because they are a certain gender. There may be physiological factors involved which influence a person feeling a certain way.

I just feel people should accept who they are physically, and be comfortable with who they are mentally. A person's scientific gender shouldn't define them. If they want to feel like a different gender, or behave or act in a way that a specific gender is generally expected to feel or act in society, then I say let them have at it.

[IRetrouk]

What can the game companies really do though? It's on us to sort it out isn't it? They sell the console and games, we buy and play them, what is it they should do more of? If they start controlling how much time we can play for etc then sales will slow, Games already come with warnings saying not to play for too long and to take regular breaks, parental controls are also available on consoles, if you or yours are addicted to this hobby then it's on you to sort that crap out, not Ms, Sony or the other gaming companies.

[rob-GP]

All they need to do is what Nintendo does, put a disclaimer up saying you should take a break every now and again, and maybe have it pop up a similar message after a few hours of continuous play. That will cover them as it’s advising you what to do.

They’ll never forcefully stop you playing or restrict your time allowed. That’s something parents can already set up in the parental settings, but nobody bothers. With the switch I think you can do it remotely with the app.

[Petebloodyonion]

How about changing the ACTUAL mentality of GAAS?
Things like rewarding you for playing each day.
Providing you with advantages over certain user if you play more or certain moment in the day.
Rewards base on time.
Loot boxes.
Etc.

Here some ideas:
Breaking the structure of the game into chapters of normal game time each.
Having moments where the game allows you to rest (as an example when your hero rest in an INN having a message suggesting that you too should need a rest).

[jznrpg]

Well MS has done a good job this gen because they didn’t make many games that would get overuse

[rainslacker]

Yeah, but they're giving away super addictive grindy GaaS games on the cheap. They're peddlers of this stuff, getting our kids addicted on games so they can push the good stuff later. It's no coincidence that MS is buying up all these purveyors of high quality video crack. It's all part of their master plan, these game peddlers, and their two faced snake oil lies!!! /s

[mmj]

Digital games is starting to make sense now, corporations and government will be able to control when and how long you are able to game for. It looks like we are implementing China's social credit score system through the back door.

Micromanaging peoples lives is what totalitarian regimes do.

[william_cade]

Take your kid out camping, traveling, learn a new language together, take in a few plays or something. Set an example via action.

Anyway, these companies want overuse, they are full of sht.

[Psychotica]

I am the adult and I don't want to do any of that either..

[william_cade]

yeah, there's 'something' to do, which is the point.

[rainslacker]

If I took them camping, I could come home and have time to play games.

Quite honestly, most people with kids seem to say that they dont have time to play games that much, so I'd imagine it's not about setting examples, but rather the lack of setting limits and expectations.

Of course, most gamers are adults, and its really discouraging that people think that this is mostly about kids, because even though we as gamers know it's not the case, we still perpetuate this myth that gaming is dominated by kids, and is a child's past time

[william_cade]

I'm an adult (old ass) gamer. And do stuff outside. I think the issue is when we walk outside and almost everyone is glued to their cellphones. Completely ignoring actuality whether that's setting limits or actually doing stuff. Everything that expresses itself through one's culture is by deed (example).

Don't shove "your" face in a phone all day and talk about limits and expectations etc.

It's both. I seems the first (actually doing stuff) is where most people stop.

[AK91]

Ugh

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Oh boy WHO you guys can be Microsoft a bit delusional

[meep316]

Maybe it would help if people weren’t convinced the world has gotten much more dangerous and let their kids play outside.

[Felix_Argyle_Catbro]

Literally who thinks that?

[meep316]

Have you talked to anybody at all in the last 10 years?

[esherwood]

They should be worrying about making the games as addictive as possible. I can make the responsible decisions on my own

[xX1NORM1Xx]

i love this, as if we haven't had in depth parental controls since 2005... if you don't use them you don't get to blame the manufacturer. If i drink bleach and die my family can't sue the company (well they could but they would lose because i misused the product) its just common sense...

[AshleeEmerson]

This is a really funny thing... Instead of the media constantly killing these companies over silly things like game addiction (is there a movie addiction), they decided to be preemptive and strengthen themselves before the media could do any more damage.

Video games company stepping in front of the bullet before it's actually fired to soften the impact of the range that the bullet travels is a very smart plan; Next Generation games breach that line of unreal graphics and VR experiences like never before so this is wonderful.

Do research to show the industry, that the gaming industry is actually self aware of its own issues and can learn to walk on its own.

[rainslacker]

The media will say, "games are addictive".

Then spend all day reporting the same thing over and over with hardly anything new, with maybe a new opinion every few hours, and encourage you to keep tuning in so you can have all the information required to make a judgement call that they want you to make.

Turn this around on TV addiction, and the media would say that that's not a thing. Or at least they aren't responsible, and if someone feels they have a problem, they should seek help, all while feigning empathetic sympathy

[HighPlayer28]

Smh Microsoft and Sony looks like they will be in bed with the delusional political bs next gen. Im not liking what Im hearing right now from these 2 companies. Instead of talking about improving their gaming platforms both are trying to be therapist and catering to non gaming issues. Both need to shut the hell up right now and stick to gaming.

[StormLegend]

Amen

[rob-GP]

The problem is, if the disorder is officially recognised then they have to make some adjustments otherwise the consoles could get banned in some countries. I’m sur you’d rather be able to buy the next console than finding out you can’t legally obtain one

[Psychotica]

There are generations of video game players who spent numerous hours a day playing video games as a kid and still managed to survive to adulthood. Same thing happened in the generations before home video games, people spent hours just sitting there staring at the tv with no interaction at all but still manage to survive..

[tontontam0]

MS:we should curb overuse....

Also MS: GAMEPASS, netflix for video games.

[tontontam0]

I work for 8 hours a day sometimes I can't help it, I go overtime. Maybe I'm addicted to work. WHO should declare work addiction as a disease.

[_LarZen_]

Can’t say I’m surprised that almost no one commenting have even taken the time to read up on what this actually is before moaning and complaining.

[Platformgamer]

what's wrong with the new sony CEO and microsoft?

[Segata]

For 20 years or so some Nintendo games remind players to take a break. Earthbound did this a lot. One of the things companies can do is stop designing their games to be so addictive. Like Fornite. The game is not really designed to be rich and fulfilling as a good game just cheap ways to lure people back in to spend more money. Same with most mobile games.

[rainslacker]

I was playing ys origin recently. Game is pretty traditional linear fare. But, it's fun, and I would easily play it for 8 hours some days. Hell, I liked it so much, I ended up going for the 2nd set of trophies with the vita version I got on cross buy.

My point, while games are sometimes designed to keep people playing, that's just kind of the result of a good game, so I dont think it would matter if they were designed without the designs you talk about.

Addiction to gaming would be to satisfy some need the person has. Doesn't matter what game it is they use to achieve that

[Segata]

Older Ys games are great RPGs you can either play in short spurts or long periods. The original Ys is like 6 hours in length.

[Rimeskeem]

First the unnecessary and insufficient war on drugs. Now the unnecessary and insufficient war on gaming.

Both being fulfilled by yours truly,

Past and present administrations

[Redlife2g]

I'm a father of a 7 year old boy. I don't need gaming companies to do anything other then make great games. I'll handle the parenting part. I only allow him to play if his homework is all done and for 30mins daily during the school week. On the weekends he can play longer but thankfully he has friends that like to do things outside (apparently this is rare now so I'm very thankful lol)

[LOLcheeseORZ]

When I was a child, my parents didn't let me play games all day. These parents let their children do whatever they want sound too passive.