Backpack Kid Sues Epic Games Over Using the Fortnite Floss Dance

From GameWatcher: "Russel Horning, known online as Backpack Kid, is yet another person that's suing Epic Games over using one of their dance moves as Fortnite in-game emotes without compensation or asking permission. The emote in question is the Floss, added way back in Fortnite's second season.

Horning's mother has filed the lawsuit on behalf of her 16-year-old son."

[gangsta_red]

Every person that can shimmy seems to want to sue Epic for their avatars dancing like them.

Epic should just take out all the dancing completely. I just mockingly stand there staring at the player when they do the dance emote.

[isarai]

Lol im waiting to see what random person tries to sue over the dab

[GottaBjimmyb]

I really don't get this idea. That would be like someone suing so you think you can dance if one of their 2 minute routines contained this 3 second move or the carlton. Would be not only insane, but unreasonable. There is:
1. No evidence these people were the first to do this move
2. No legal claim to these moves prior to their lawsuits, so almost no way they win.

[Sono421]

Honestly who are the lawyers dumb enough to take these cases? I swear everyone is progressively getting more and more entitled and idiotic at the same time, a terrible combo.

[RacerX]

If you created a move, and then someone else made tons of money by monetizing it, you'd probably want a piece of change too.

[Takwin]

Migos came up with the dab, so they can sue for it.

[BadElf]

Offset or Takeoff? Maybe.

[Tazzy]

Lmfao I'm sure its not far away and the funny thing is these dances aren't trademarked by anyone people are out to make a quick dollar and it shows.

[StormSnooper]

You can’t sue over dance moves/choreography that you didn’t copyright, but the guy from Scrubs for example may be able to claim something because I believe his dance occurred during an episode, no? The episode was copyrighted, so may be he has a claim.

Let me put it this way, if you were the actor, and you did the dance, then another sitcom used your dance in their show, would you have a claim? This is the same thing.

[milohighclub]

If they were using other peoples music would they be entitled to sue?

[gangsta_red]

I'm sure they could since writing and making music is protected by ownership laws....but is dancing?

[NapalmSanctuary]

@gangsta_red *copyright laws.

@milohighclub Social dance steps or simple routines.can not be copyrighted.

[rainslacker]

The Floss is quite literally one dance move. Just reversing it to one side of the body or the other does not make it a routine.

A single dance move is not something that can be copyrighted. So, it doesn't matter about music, what he has here isn't able to be copyrighted. There is no reason to seek copyright for something that has been performed publicly. Copyright is automatic from the moment it goes up to a verifiable and recordable public medium....just like music is. The registered copyrights on music are typically for the written form, but extra filings are done for more legal protection and to make it easier in cases of infringement. However, a simple recorded performance, shown publicly, is more than enough. And YouTube serves as a poor mans copyright filing.

[gangsta_red]

@napalm

Copyright! Thank you.

Edit above:

"*AND just mockingly...."

Ugh...

[rdgneoz3]

@rainslacker. Just posting on YouTube doesn't let you sue in court. You have to copyright it first

https://info.legalzoom.com/...

"However, it is much better to register the copyright, because it creates a public notice that you own the rights and enables you to sue in federal court if someone uses your choreography without your permission."

[milohighclub]

@rdgneoz they only have to register the copyrite before they sue, so they could register it now and still sue them as they have evidence of them creating it.

[Christopher]

My understand is that dance routines can be copyrighted, but not dance moves. Dance routines are specifically choreographed and detailed, dance moves tend to evolve from early versions that we don't know who was the first to really make those moves, only who made it popular at one time for that version of it.

[Soc5]

Its not even really about whether they are entitled or not, lawyers know that the legal process itself is costly and companies will settle for a smaller amount just to not have to deal with the issue. So sometimes people sue just hoping for a handout from the company to make them go away, and it's cheaper than spending months in court.

[amazingmax7]

Everyone wants some of Epics/Fortnites money :P

[KyRo]

Yet there was a video on buzz feed with the creepy look dude saying its cool that they put it into fortnite. Now he's trying to sue 😂 Even the Carlton dance, the actor has come out and said he copied it. As I said before all this is going to get laughed out of court.

[rainslacker]

His parents, who manage his career, which is weird for a YouTube celebrity, but whatever...are the ones suing on his behalf. He said he doesn't really care that much, and even said he was fine with it being in the game.

He said a while back that he should be compensated for it in reference to another game it was in...NBA2K(not sure the year). But that seemed more like joking, and not a real expectation of getting paid.

Whether he's telling the truth or not I dunno. The lawsuit filed on his behalf could be something he wants, but he can deny accountability and remove some of the negative hate that'll come from it by disavowing his intent. In the mean time, he lawsuit alone will bring him attention, which is probably more valuable to his parents as managers...and likely him. They have to know that the single dance move he performs as a dance, is not a routine, and is not able to be copyrighted.

Personally, what little I watched of him was rather dull. Maybe it's a generational thing, but if this is what passes for entertainment nowadays, it's no wonder everyone runs to the internet to annoy everyone else.

Anyhow, they should have waited for the first lawsuit to finish. Robero has the money and more standing for his case, and it could set a precedent, instead of them potentially fighting an expensive legal battle. Epic isn't known to settle when they think they've done no wrong, and in a case without precedent, they're likely to fight on the chance they won't have to pay others. If they settle, they'll receive a flood of lawsuits, and it'll force the expectation of compensation for the entire industry to have to pay....which could cause a flood of these sorts of claims for any game that offers them....like most online games really, since at least half of them have some sort of dance move taken from other sources.

[SuperRaccoon]

The dance from Alfonso Ribeiro is a choreography, not a single dance move, which they did shamelessly copy. Much like with Donald Faison, who also had a full choreography and not a single move. These are, in fact, covered by law.

[rainslacker]

Maybe just add a big middle finger emote instead?

Went looking for the dance in question, here's the kids response the lawsuit

"10:08 AM -- Backpack Kid tells us his mom and manager feel Fortnite is taking advantage of him, and he's letting the grown-ups handle the legal process.

Backpack Kid spoke out on "TMZ Live" Tuesday, saying he doesn't care about getting a fat check from the lawsuit, because he just cares about people watching and enjoying his videos. Besides, he says he's got more important things on his plate, like his 17th birthday and new single. "

Like the kids attitude at least.

Edit: having watched the dance, it is quite literally just one dance move repeated over and over again. That is not copyright-able material. Wish people, or at least their lawyers, would learn the law before doing these frivolous lawsuits.

Wonder if we'll see a flood of these lawsuits now. Will be interesting to see what happens at least. I'd like to see a precedent set in a court of law, so at least it's not as open to interpretation as it is now.

Edit 2: Apparently he also has a lawsuit filed on his behalf for the dance being included in NBA 2K.

https://www.tmz.com/2018/12...

If anyone is interested.

[CorndogBurglar]

"Wish people, or at least their lawyers, would learn the law before doing these frivolous lawsuits."

This is actually the sad state of having the ability to sue anyone over anything. Anyone can try to sue. It's up to the court to decide if its worthwhile to actually go through with it.

Also, many people that try suing know full well they are in the wrong or that they don't have a leg to stand on. But they do it anyway because a lot of companies will just settle out of court because it's cheaper than actually paying to get lawyers and fight it in court, even if they win.

The really crappy people in these situations are the lawyers that agree to take the case knowing full well it is a frivolous lawsuit, yet they take the case anyway in Hope's of settling out of court.

[milohighclub]

"A copyright affords protection to creators and owners of unique intellectual property that is fixed in some permanent, tangible form such as a written notation, book, video, sound recording, or drawing. To be eligible for copyright protection, your CHOREOGRAPHY must be original. Under U.S. copyright law, as soon as an original work of authorship, such as CHOREOGRAPHY has been created in fixed form, then copyright protection exists from that time. This gives the author or his agent to rightfully claim copyright."

[CorndogBurglar]

Destiny 2 also has the Floss in it. Why isn't anyone suing them? Oh, because Fortnite is the most popular game among the public right now, so it gets targeted. That's right.....

Not only that, but why are they not suing anyone else that uses the dance? There are wrestlers in WWE that use it. Why not sue them also? If they are going to sue over a dance then they need to start suing everyone that has done it.

People are so ridiculous.

[Jakens]

Forza four also.

[ABizzel1]

Unpopular opinion or not. Pay these people and percentage of the gross income of the dance emotes and move on.

Regardless if the dance moves are copywritten or not, they are still protected under right of publicity claim, where these dance moves have been heavily associated with these individuals whether through song or popular actors / characters, which they are legally obligated to protect.

The whole issue with this is the simple fact Epic is making millions off of these emotes, and they originators should rightfully be paid. It could be as small as 5% of the Emotes first annual earnings, but they deserve something.

[rainslacker]

Association isn't claimable, except when done as part of a trademarked brand....like Apple for instance. There are many things that came before someone uses them, and it isn't right to have someone else be able to claim something as theirs just because they popularized it. In this instance, the name of "Carlton Dance", could be considered a trademarked part of a brand, however, the Carlton character and the actual dance aren't trademarked, even in an implied sense, as they're part of a different trademarked property and that trademark isn't known for that dance...so even if somehow it becomes trademarked now, Epic wouldn't have been in the wrong on this point, and as far as I know, since they used it before it was trademarked, they are entitled to use it afterwards, as there is no grandfather clause on trademarking....which is why some older games can still use Candy in their name.

I know of no such thing as a publicity claim, unless you're talking about trademarks. Dances can't be trademarked, they are an intellectual property for the routines. And they fall into that category for claims.

I think people understand the issue that Epic is making millions, people are questioning if the people that inspired the dances have a right to compensation because the dances themselves may not be something that can be considered intellectual property, or they might be considered derivative work.

[princejb134]

lol is a get rich scheme. Im sure backpack kids mom figured by suing she will get a lot of money

[Christopher]

"Horning's mother has filed the lawsuit on behalf of her 16-year-old son."

Mommy wants dat dough! I hardly think the kid is really in this on his own.

Edit: just FYI, the floss dance is the perfect way to embarrass your SO at their business Christmas party. I highly suggest it.

[rainslacker]

Pfft. I don't need a stupid dance to embarrass my SO at a business Christmas Party. I'm a real man, I can do that all on my own without any fancy tricks.:)

[badboyz09]

Fortnite should just go away for a year

[TheEnigma313]

Just don’t play it. It’s that simple.

[PhantomS42]

Forever seems better

[Shikoku]

It's should just go away

[ALMGNOON]

this stupid hate won't stop MILLIONS of players from playing this game, if you hate the game just don't play it !! is that hard to do ?

[Eidolon]

Yeah but Fornite is kind of a cancer. I mean, I get that it could be fun, but the hype is undeserved. It's only popular, because it's popular, some how. Because of streamers, and e-sports/tournaments, which I'm pretty sure Epic has a hand in. If you look at it objectively, it's really not that great, there are way better video game experiences. Epic did a real good job of taking popular culture and milking the fk out of people. Take away costumes, and dance moves, their paid tournaments. This game would be dead. GAURANTEED. It's the bandwagon effect. Aesthetics, thrown money, shouldn't make the game.

[Ninte]

better make up my own dance and hope that fortnite pick it up so i can sue them too.

[rainslacker]

Pre-requisite and process

be a stupid dance which probably lacks any style(The carlton actually was stylish for what it was, a parody....the Floss, not so much...just a preppy white boy trying to look cool/stupid). No more than 3 moves. Be popular because of how silly and stupid it is. Name it something definable. Sit on it for years and while maybe known, not really be that much of anything worthy of brand recognition or used to make money. Forgotten by everyone for the most part. Sue when a company decides to add it because someone saw it that one time and they happen to make a lot of money off the game, even though the bulk of that money is not likely from dance emotes.

[rdgneoz3]

If you file a copyright on said stupid dance, then you can sue. If not, good luck.

[Veneno]

Filing a copyright helps with that but you don't need to have one to sue. Copyright exists when your work takes on a form.

[Vokun13]

Next you're gonna see that orange shirt kid giving them a run for their money.

[Snakefist30]

Good!

[Relientk77]

Who

[kayoss]

im going to sue Epic for copying my walk.,

[rainslacker]

I put up a hastily built wall once, and recorded the whole thing on YouTube. Imagine how much money I'll get, considering its a core mechanic of the game, and not tied to just some MT dances.:)

[Eidolon]

That's just a concept, the animated dance moves are pretty much 1:1 with choreography from the creators. Epic COPIED all this and is making millions without a single credit to the creators of the dance moves. If you can Copyright and sue for WORDS, you should be at least credited for a dance move, which is wayyyyyyyyyyy more specific, if you consider velocity, angular momentum, distance, limb direction etc.

[rainslacker]

Don't you oppress me!!! I want some of that fortnite money.

[lociefer]

Holdon holdon, i'm a male... fortnite has male characters..... LAWSUIT TIME !

[Sm00thNinja]

I don't think you understand how things work in general lol

[lociefer]

Neither do these people. But they try

[Sm00thNinja]

😂😂😂 I suppose

[porkChop]

Ok, no. I understand some of the other complaints over dances, but not this one. This kid didn't invent this dance, it was around way before them. Clearly his mom is just looking for a pay day.

[Chumdiddy]

I OWN MOVEMENTS. I OWN THIS ONE. THIS ONE IS MINE.

[windblowsagain]

A Fortnite Player looked at me funny. I feel abused i'm suing.

[FPS_D3TH]

Destiny standing on the sidelines like 😬🤫

[FPS_D3TH]

Brb going to copyright basic human movements

[Eidolon]

Lyrics/novels/quotes/speech are just words, language and larynx vibrations , no one owns that. Harder to randomize a 3 second dance move than it is to randomize say a 3 second written speech .

[Rikimaru1977]

this is just getting really stupid. Greedy people.

[Eidolon]

Epic is greedy.

[mastershredder]

yeah um...some other "kid" with a backpack wants to sue you for taking that very original and imaginative name (to go with basic mcbaserserson next to no-skills dancy Pooh). This is like letting the stuidest celebrities open their mouthes on matters of science. Stop giving these twits the opportunity to leak into gaming news topics because they can hold a contoller. A monkey can do that. maybe we should sue him next, I mean that is any gamer's "move" right? ka ka ka Cringe combo.

[Takwin]

Fortnite should give 88% of all proceeds (gross, not net) from the sales of dances to their originators, same as they do for game creators. #logic

[sprinterboy]

Just when you think you've seen it all

[Tankbusta40]

BREAKING NEWS FROM NEXT WEEK:

BOY GEORGE SUES BACK PACK KID FOR BEING FLAMBOYANT

[stefd75]

Can you patent a dance move ?? Does this mean he will sue every tv show, film and YouTube video for using that dance.

[BadElf]

What's in the backpack?

[whothedog]

Once I patent walking, watch out Epic.

[authentic]

Fortnite used my horn on their bus, filing a lawsuit.

[ocelot07]

I always thank the bus driver when I get off the bus. Damn you epic I want my well earned cash!

[BlackRaven85_1]

Funny. He stole that dance from a band. He took it first and claimed it was his.

[Dirtnapstor]

His mother stepped in and is suing on his behalf...of course she is.
Ironically, like the other two, Backpack Kid's dance move suit has no real legs to stand on.

[vork77]

this title should be backpack mom made him sue because he did not even care

[2ndhandcorn]

Used to dig kneeling and praying for dead enemy in Lost Planet or mashing crouch and weapon change would do the jerk , loved the multi in that game .

[TheHan]

None of them here should even be a reason to sue