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Microsoft admits flaw in the Xbox 360

After more than thousand complaints of Xbox 360 users, Microsoft has admitted Saturday night that there is a flaw in the Xbox 360. That happened in the Dutch television programme "Kassa". The flaw causes CDs and DVDs that are spinning in the player to get damaged.

According to a press declaration from Microsoft, the Xbox 360 can cause scratches. Initially the company denied to be guilty for the damage. Microsoft kept saying for months that the gamers themselves are responsible for scratches on the discs.

After research on the Xbox 360 it was determined that the scratches occur by the lack of a so called "bump pillows" at the lens. From the data of "Kassa" it would concerns a worldwide serial of approximately 1 to 2 million Xbox 360 consoles.

In the consumer programme "Kassa" Microsoft promised to offer aid to users who have complaints in the form of repairing. It is however not possible to get a new console.

[Source nu.nl]

Alternative Sources:

Video of the programme &quo... - player.omroep.nl | By: Babylonian

Babylonian - contributor
Published: 943 days 13 hours ago | News | Xbox 360

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dalectrics - 943 days 13 hours ago

1 - This is exactly what happened..

..to mine, no doubt. The noises that came from my old drive woke the dead! Sent it for repair and they sent me a new console within 5 days, so I don't know about the last statement.

PS - tip for scratched discs, clean them with Brasso (UK product - used for cleaning Brass and metals but works a treat - saved me buying/replacing any scratched games)

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Babylonian - 943 days 13 hours ago

1.1 - Well....

The last statement concerns only to Holland i think. Espcially after the waranty of the consumers is expired.

But I think that the reason MS is not giving new consoles is because they had 1000 complaints, I they were to give all those people a new console than that would be a lot of money they would lose. If you look at the alternate scource I provided then you can see the programme. It is in Dutch but it shows the research that is done for the show. here is the link also: http://player.omroep.nl/?af...

And another thing if I might add. If the console only has that problem then why give a whole new one, just repair the one thing that causes the problem. And that is why they are only offering repair.

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Jebissaveme - 943 days 8 hours ago

1.2 - man! Where were you guys last night?

I put this story up and the xbots repoted it. you guys wana know how many times...166. thats rights 166. is that a record?

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deep - 943 days 6 hours ago

1.3 -

That's disgusting dude.

Good news and bad...it's all for this site.

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Jason 360 - 943 days 5 hours ago

1.4 - Jebissaveme

It was the doing one one person that 166 about 156 was one person don't try and use this to your PS3 fan advantage.

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bilal - 943 days 13 hours ago

2 - -

what are they going to do about that, release a patch that enables them to run games without spinning.

360 is the crapiest system today, even the ps2 lasts much longer. So when people start talking that a major portion of ps2 sales are due to repairs and replacements, 360 has and would have even a greater proportion.

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Ban Me - 943 days 13 hours ago

3 -

Does it say what drives are affected, or is it all of them.

Real responses please... no fanboy answers.

Cheers ;)

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nix - 943 days 13 hours ago

4 - oh. this problem?

i thought they were talking about the "ring of death". but i wonder if they will ever accept that one. would be catastrophic!

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Icryo - 943 days 13 hours ago

5 -

I want to know why the 3 red rings problem arises...

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TheMART at Xboxkings - 943 days 13 hours ago

6 -

This only regards the Toshiba/Samsung drives, as they don't have the rubber bumpers around the lens/laser.

I'll copy paste my post from the article just below. Both about the same problem...

Well, they're right about the T/S drive having no rubber bumpers close to the DVD drives lens.

BUT

As long as you don't move the drive while it's spinning, and having the console standing stable, it's almost impossible to get the disc to scratch. I have a T/S drive myself. I know at least 10 persons with a T/S drive. Never any scratches...

The most funny thing is (if you can read Dutch otherwise use babelfish), the research that has been done for this program Kassa said something completely different, read it here

http://www.hardware.info/nl...

In short they say:

Yep, the rubber bumpers are missing. That's a shortcoming of MS's product. BUT we have not been able to actually get the scratches in our lab, not even when we turned the console while spinning. NOT ANY. The discs came out without the scratch 'rings' as mentioned.

And they tested intensively. MS has acknowledged this problem in the mean time and will change the consoles if people want to including the discs.

If you ask me: I think those people have caused it themselves. I have no friend that got scratching like this using the console on a normal way. Their own research showed with intensive testing they couldn't reproduce the scratching. But, the rubber bumpers should have been there for sure.

Go read the link (with babelfish) and verify yourself!

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Ban Me - 943 days 12 hours ago

6.1 -

Thanks man.

I have the hitachi so should be fine.

As you say though, most of the time it's probably down to user error rather than the drive itself. A lot of people are more stupid than they would care to admit!

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Babylonian - 943 days 12 hours ago

6.2 - well mart

the link isn't working for me right now, but at the end of the show they say that if you place the 360 stable enough you won't get scratches.

I haven't watched the whole show cause I'm at school right now and they have no sound but I'm gonna listen to it when Im back.

I do think that it occurs often when you move the 360.

*edit* I just read the article, they said that they tested it by using many different disc and without any scratches. They used the console verticaly and horizontily and still now scratches. But they did get scratches from flipping the console whil spinning tin the disc.

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Ugly American - 943 days 12 hours ago

6.3 - That would be nice...

Tell that to my two 360's that have had the disc scratching problem. Both have been laying horizontal and both have ended up grinding on my discs. One finally rubbed so hard on the disc that it no longer works. The other one is my wife's and gets less play time, but I imagine it will have the EXACT same issue before too long.

I picked up a new Xbox 360 in Dubai for $460.00. I figured it was about as much as I would pay with taxes. So I will get the first broken one fixed(it is a launch Xbox) when I get home from this cruise, and trade it in for the Elite.

I have had no red rings of death, just the disc rubbing. I love my 360, but it is obvious to me that it is not perfect. But at least I have games to play on it vice my PS3. It has definitely run out of usefulness until I get some new, GOOD games.

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TheMART 2 - 943 days 12 hours ago

6.4 - somebodys home ... mart fly?

360 is electrocrap. ps3 is the pure powermachine this gen. i myself had 2 360s with a ring of death and i did nothing but changing a game.

at my local videogamestore they´re just selling ps3s cause all the people know that its the best system available

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blackmagic - 943 days 4 hours ago

6.5 -

haven't had problems myself...

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IPlayGames - 943 days 2 hours ago

6.6 - Die hard fanboy to the end

I can respect that. But man your company is making defective consoles ON PURPOSE. thats not cool for gamers anyway you cut it.

You say you've done all these test but ive seen it for myself under normal conditions. It not just scratches game but does it enough that you can play them.

so all they need to do is accept that the three light is there doing to. Now im wondering how good they made the Elite.

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artman - 942 days 21 hours ago

6.7 - oh marty.... marty ... marty

this is no M$ fault, ths is the third party supplier fault... M$ is a SAINT!
your statement is not very clever to read... no matter who's fault... it is under M$ quality check and assurance... now blame the person who is incharge with quality check.

if Cell doesn't working well... blame to IBM and other... hello?
blame china to produce a crap 360, blame hitachi or samsung to make a crappy dvd-rom, blame the chip factory to create overheat design of chip... blame everyone... they are still 360. why don't you blame M$ not to produce everything themself?

windows bluescreen? blame the PC, is not the OS fault, red light? blame the developer...
I see something is missing here...
it's alrite to be a fanboy... but be wise~

I have 360.. and I know how it works ok... yes my 360 didn't scratch my disc yet, but it got red light... and useless now.
that's my fault, because I don't check around the forums (like this one) before I buy.

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Saint Sony - 943 days 12 hours ago

7 -

Do NOT ever change the xbox360 from vertical position to horizontal if you got disc inside. This will most likely damage your game or what ever disc.

Here's a youtube video of one other test which really shows what happens.

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frostbite06 - 943 days 6 hours ago

7.1 -

too bad for quake 4. My personal choice would have been pdz or ridge racer

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id dot entity - 942 days 10 hours ago

7.2 -

Woah hear that sound when he's changing the stance of the Xbox! But sounds pretty logic to me that you don't move your Xbox when there's a disc inside.

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Nik - 943 days 12 hours ago

8 - About time

they admit to their mistakes.

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Bathyj - 943 days 12 hours ago

9 -

Ok, now that they've admitted problems with such a bog standard component like a DVD drive whats the big secret about the 3 red rings? Tell us the story there M$. Its time, dont you think.

EDIT: Oh I see someone disagreed with my statement. Don't you want to know why your Xbox keeps breaking down and what M$ intends to do about it? I know I do.

2ND EDIT: Ha, another disagree, but 2 agrees, as well. So from my own little poll of 5 five people (including myself) we can surmise that 60% of people whose X360's break down care about it and think M$ should tell us what the problem is, and 40% of people whose X360 have broken down, dont really care and think everything's cool.

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artman - 943 days 12 hours ago

10 - honesth statement at last~

so they are not honest to the customer all these times... if dutch TV haven't put that on the show... I doubt that MS still denied the scratchs disc...
how about red light??

honestly... MS had put a lot of junk quality on their 360~ technology advance... yeah ... for use in 2-3 years... quality and reliability ... NO~

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uHuRu - 943 days 12 hours ago

11 - Crap.

Xbox 360 hardware is really flawed. the hardware is pure crap.

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calderra - 943 days 11 hours ago

12 -

Microsoft DID talk about this issue, IN THE SYSTEM'S MANUAL!
It says not to tip the system over while a disc is in. And that's the statement that covers this exact issue.

If you leave your system stable on a good surface like you're supposed to, you will not have any problems.

Understanding the whole issue/10!

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Babylonian - 943 days 9 hours ago

12.1 - I don't ant ro break down your argument or disregard the 360

but during the programme there were also people who didn't do anything wrong with their 360 and still got the same problem.

It is also hard to believe that 1000 people all moved the console while letting the disc spin. You can't say all those people are dumb and don't know how to take care of their console.

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hamburgerhill - 943 days 11 hours ago

13 -

I have 2 360's and have yet to see a scratch! 360 isn't crap and I would still buy another one over another platform which I feel is crap!

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FadeToBlack - 943 days 11 hours ago

14 - Well

I myself have also had 2 360's and know about 5 friends that have never had this problem. When you look at the big picture most customers dont experiance any of the problems some flaming fanboys claim to have on this site. Same goes for the other consols also. Someone hears about a problem 1 person has and they use it as flaimbait for the consol war agenda.

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darthkojima - 943 days 10 hours ago

15 - 360 is pure crap..

why buy that crapy console huh? the consoles engineering sucks big time.. the first time I saw the 360 diagram it really sucks. resistor and capacitors are junks too bulky.. compare it to PS3's chipsets engineering design was just meh..

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TheMART at Xboxkings - 943 days 10 hours ago

15.1 -

Don't talk sh!t man... You know nothing about engineering if you say this clearly.

BTW the PS3 has strange engineering...

Sony thought the Cell could also do all GPU tasks. Late in the design process they found out it was to weak for that, so they went to Nvidia with a bag of money. Said: What can we buy for this amount of money? Nvidia gave them a standard PC card, already outdated. It's integration isn't flawlessly.

The 360 has a special build GPU, optimal integrated with all parts. Now that's engineering.

What has a DVD drive to do with the way the 360 is build BTW? In it's origin this is Toshiba/Samsung's fault. They should have had the rubber bumpers in place just with their PC drives!

Hitachi did the job right there

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cuco33 - 943 days 7 hours ago

15.2 - to 15...

are you an engineer? are you an electrical engineer? are you a manufacturing engineer? did you look at both board layouts and understand what you are looking at? or did you just see the different circuit layouts and components on each and preach your brand loyalty that one is better than the other or that one LOOKS better? even if sony's layout is better, your post obviously shows you have no clue what you are talking about.

copied from the OTHER thread below...
"first off... ps3 has NOTHING to do with this article, so dont bring it up. this is a message to all, DON'T BRING IT UP. this site continues to go to crap because of all the fanboyism and brand loyalty

second off... before people start crying out malice and say the 360 is a hunk of crap and that they dont care for their customers, note that initial complaints aren't enough statistically to show the specific problem does exist. it takes many to pinpoint what exactly is wrong with what system, what serial, what components and is not an isolated case... that is why managers are more than likely to blame the end user and not their product. this happens across the board with game consoles, radios, cars, refrigerators, everything... for this particular case initial specs for the drives most likely didn't state to have the bumpers in them, and since this is business, the vendor probably saw fit to not utilize them for cost savings. ever hear a penny saved is a penny earned? yeah... business... the good thing is that most likely the requirement spec for new drives will have this feature, all be it to the cost of a frustrated customer and bad publicity. you don't really think that a company can be in business with so much bad press do you? their fans would turn on them. and that would cost them more in the long run. also dont forget that sites like these blow things out of proportion every time the 360 red rings or the bad ps2 lasers are mentioned... it reminds me of the imus sharpton crap going on as we speak..."

i'm not saying MS is at fault for admitting the issue only now, but i am saying STOP YOUR BULLSH*T PEOPLE! ps3 may very well resort to similar issues as it hasn't been out on the market long enough or been used to the extent the 360 has been, hells my sister's laptop is a sony vaio and is the biggest crud of crap i ever came across. she spent well over $400 to "fix" an issue that was supposed to be done under warranty. what they did was reformatted the HD, reinstalled windows xp and the same issues arose. now is that MS's problem for their OS or sony's problem for their laptop not being able to start without an error, charge correctly, loading issues numerous times via their LITE ON branded sony dvd-r drive, etc? the issue could very well have happened if she mishandled it, or if someone delivering the package to the store dropped it.

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Nervsys - 943 days 3 hours ago

15.3 - Wait til PS3s actually get used

Yes this may be a serious problem for some, but at least 360s are being stress tested (playing games) by their owners rather than just collecting dust like most PS3s.

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level 360 - 943 days 10 hours ago

16 - Repair or Replace....

It's good that Microsoft has admitted to these faulty consoles, now they should also put-out a statement on their websites about this problems and possibly repair/replace them. Every consumer deserves to get their money's worth considering how expensive these consoles are, and also the game softwares. And to those fanboys who keep defending that it might be the consumers' who are at fault - let me tell you, that you are also one. Don't defend these rich manufacturers especially on this sort of issues, they were definitely cutting on cost which has made them pay dearly.

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Marty8370 - 943 days 10 hours ago

17 - Buy A PS3.

Problem solved.

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18 Says you | 943 days 9 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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omansteveo - 943 days 9 hours ago

19 -

The reason you dont here this about ps3 i bc theres no games to buy for the system to scratch

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ItsDubC - 943 days 9 hours ago

19.1 -

This was either a witty potshot at the PS3 or a fanboyish assumption that the PS3 will have the same drive issues. Entertaining to say the least.

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TheExecutive - 943 days ago

19.2 - lol...

you can scratch blu-ray discs all day and they will still play... unlike the DVD.

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brianodom - 943 days 8 hours ago

20 - HARDY HAR HAR

ROFL

they hid it in the 360 only section of this site...HAHAHA

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decapitator - 943 days 6 hours ago

20.1 - nope

it was on the main page..dont know why it got moved though.

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tehcellownu - 943 days 8 hours ago

21 - they thought they can get away with it

but it came back and haunted their as$ i remember xboxfanboys was blamin the people who owns it and not microsoft..i was laughin so hard..why fight eachother when microsoft hardware is the main problem..

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22 BubblesDAVERAGE | 943 days 7 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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fenderputty - 943 days 6 hours ago

23 - /chuckle

/chuckle

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THELANDSOFSAND - 943 days 6 hours ago

24 - old news, and something microsoft are working to fix.

umm, i remember this 'secret' flaw being discussed about 4 months after launch- people were moving their console with the disc in and scratching up copies of PGR and perfect dark- microsoft told people not to move the console when the disc was being read (i.e spinning). they offered to replace copies of scratched games for people who were unfortunate to catch this flaw. they also moved to replace the offending samsung drives with new parts from hitatchi and in the past month, BenQ.

Gamefly also sent out a message to its subscribers about this issue at the same time, about 4 months after launch. It's fairly well known in the gaming circles.

i have yet to scratch a disc in my console while playing- i had a launch console and i am about to be using my 3rd console from microsoft as i seem to be burning out my dvd lens's with too much weed smoke, incense or endless Gears Of War frag-fests (!). both times i had my console replaced microsoft customer service was very helpful- the first console was replaced for free out of warrenty and the time i was given a yers Live subscription and a years warrenty for free as well as a 50% discount.

my new console will have the benQ drive in it which is supposed to be a lot quieter and more reliable- I'll let you guys know how it really is in a few days.

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id dot entity - 943 days 6 hours ago

25 -

I saw the episode of Kassa and I was pretty surprised that Microsoft admitted the flaws (finally).

I am planning on buying an Xbox 360 next week... keep my fingers crossed that mine has "bump pillows".

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TheMART at Xboxkings - 943 days 5 hours ago

25.1 -

Yep it will.

MS only delivers Hitachi drives now with the bumpers. I've been following forums on repairs, all T/S drives send in came back with a Hitachi drive

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overrated - 943 days 6 hours ago

26 -

ha

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The BS Police - 943 days 6 hours ago

27 - My 360 doesn't scratch discs.

And best of all, my 360 is a launch console, I never heard of any problems with scratched discs unless if somebody tilted the 360 with the disc inside.

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Babylonian - 943 days 5 hours ago

27.1 - It doesn't concern all the DVD players on the Xbox

just a certain few. But it's quite funny though, Sony as getting a lot of bashing on the PS3 about their hardware and at this point I haven't heared a lot about defective PS3.

The PS3 also has a Blu-ray player and it should be noted that many people thought it would have many issues because it's new technology and all, ironically it turned out to be the Xbox 360.

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shotty - 943 days 5 hours ago

28 -

I had 2 cracked disc but none were scratched (I have a console made oct 2005 btw), the console works fine though. I remember reading that the newer drives all have rubber padding to prevent scratching so if you are so determined to see the rings of light flip when you move from horizontal to vertical then do so but please take the disc out first ;). None of us hopefully dont flip our PCs or DVD players while they are spinning disc, also DO NOT leave your console or any disc based deivce on top of a Subwoofer or right up next to it, it will cause the disc to bounce around and possibly crack.

We all spent alot of money on our games and contrary to beleif, neither microsoft, sony or nintendo can't defy the laws of physics and every reaction has an equal opposite reaction so shaking a console which is spinning at 10000 RPM is going to cause that disc to exsert most of its energy against the side of the drive in a fraction of a second.

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