BioShock developer details PS3 improvements

morganfell - 436 days 5 hours ago

I already have it paid off. I traded in my 360 copy on the PS3 version when Xbox number 3 was sent back to me and it was dead when I took it out of the box.

There are 3 words that some people on this board hate...but can't change. "Now on PS3"

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sonarus - 436 days 5 hours ago

lol why would you trade in your 360 copy and pay extra money on top of that lol

If i was to purchase bioshock it would be for 360. I have played a bit of it and frankly i think its boring. Plus i am not a big fan of paying full price for yr old games

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DARKKNIGHT - 436 days 5 hours ago

lol, this is like 20 dollars on pc now. If you have a good pc this game is ok...remember its only singleplayer.

not worth the 65 dollars though

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JOLLY1 - 436 days 5 hours ago

what was your gamertag? I want to see when you played bioshock on the 360. It's not that I don't believe you, (I don't) I am just curious.

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sonarus - 436 days 5 hours ago

Just so you know this is not the first time he has been called out for not having 360 and he has proved it before

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Swamp@ss - 436 days 4 hours ago

I'm gonna show 2k this pretty bow that I wrapped a turd in...maybe they won't smell it.

Honestly though they don't need to save face...it's Bioshock. I'd still buy this game without the bow.

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IDemonstalkerXI - 436 days 4 hours ago

I bought bioshock on PC a long time ago. I can't justify getting it on PS3 now.

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barom - 436 days 4 hours ago

"there’s even a fancy movie accompanied by Bing Crosby’s 'You're Getting to Be a Habit with Me' to help pass the time if you’re not off making a tasty, preparatory sandwich"

lmao hahahah gotta love the sandwiches.

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SL1M DADDY - 435 days 23 hours ago

The game being released on the PS3 is not intended for those that have already played it on the 360 or PC, it is intended... Now get this... For those with PS3 that have not yet played the game. I know, it's tough but in the end, the more coverage this game gets the better. It is a great title for all to play.

In my case, I got rid of my 360 copy and will be renting the PS3 version just for curiosity sake. lol

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morganfell - 435 days 20 hours ago

JOLLY1,

http://i39.photobucket.com/...

A lot of people on this board do not like me. I could care less. But one thing they have learned not to do is call me out on something. I don't say anything that isn't true and tat I can't back up. I had Bioshock doubting Thomas.

Sonarus,

People that do not understand why I took the action I did concerning Bioshock need to realize something. I let MS screw me. Alot.

I had a launch 360. I was the first one on the list. Even the EB Games (now Gamestop) manager couldn't figure out how I did it. That 360 died at the 13 month mark. I paid $129 to get the 360 repaired. I wait 8 weeks and a day and I get a refurb back. I have sever DRM issues and redownload a lot of the material I had from my launch 360. That second 360 dies too after less than a year. I pay another $129 and I send it back in. The third one takes 6 and a half weeks to come back and when it arrives I take it out of the box and it is dead. RROD as soon as I plug it in.

At that point I had paid $260 bucks for repairs and lost 14 weeks of Live time. I was totally disgusted. I go without a 360 until they begin taking pre-orders on the HALO 360s. I trade in my 3rd broken 360. MS announces the 3 year warranty and I apply for refunds. I will eventually get those refund checks in March of 2008. I also was only reimbursed for 1 month of Live out of the 14 weeks I lost. I don't count the game between my 3rd dead 360 and picking up my HALO 360. To this day I have DRM issues. Of the games with issues that were solved a few months ago with the DRM tool, many of them are now worthless because no one games them anymore.

So I have my HALO launch 360 and I get Bioshock. I am running the first level and wham. My HALO 360 hard locks on me. It doesn't RROD - that happened this past week end. It hard locks on me. That;s it. Final straw. I take Bioshock and I trade it in. I don't buy any game, not one that it is available on the PS3. The only games I have left to buy on the 360 are HALO Wars and HALO Recon. Period. I kept a small friends list on the 360 and the most important people on there also had PS3s. Every single one of them lost a launch 360 to RROD.

How stupid do I have to be to keep pouring money into a 360 hole when MS hasn't even been able to come close to making things square with me?

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xhairs9 - 435 days 19 hours ago

This is exactly why I love Morgan Fell, he's not an idiot, and he just delivered you a pwnwich.

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The Lazy One - 435 days 17 hours ago

How did you pay so much? they extended the warranty about 1.5 years after release. You said you got it day 1, +13 months, +1 month repair time, + (less than a year) months till you sent it back again.

I know it's semantics, but it's misleading to say less than a year, when it was less than 5 months.

Also, all your money should have been refunded, and you should have gotten 2 months of free xbl, as well as a free Microsoft Game Studios game.

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IdleLeeSiuLung - 436 days 4 hours ago

Why is it that every freaken game on the PS3 requires an 5GB install? Is it such an inferior technolgoy that textures can't be streamed fast enough? Extra space, but slower streaming seems almost a step backwards.

I can at max have 8 games immediately playable. What bullshit is that?

In my opinion, at least on the 360 I can play any game immediately. NO bullshit installation. Guess what, my 360 also cost less!!!

Some other fanboy will disagree, but you know what, I have not had a single problem with my 360. Works like a charm almost a year afterwards! My PS3 have been keeping my Wii in company as a paper weight. Let's hope my hard earned money isn't wasted on these two consoles....

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Final_Rpg - 436 days 4 hours ago

When you can get a 320 gb hdd for 100 dollars or less space isn't really an issue.

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FantasyStar - 436 days 4 hours ago

You're not alone, I hate the installs too.

The reason installs are done because the way developers organized the file structure isn't organized well-enough for the 2x BR Drive to pull data off constantly, so they use the HDD to offset some discrepancies when gauged against the 360 version. Unfortunately, it's entirely up to the developer whether or not the gamers see an improvement over load times vs. the 360 version, or we just have gigs of space wasted and we get worst loading times than 360.

I like to use the example of the dump truck making 2 stops instead of one. Dump truck makes at stop at the 2x BR Drive to collect data, then it drives upward to the HDD where it collects the other set of data, then it drives towards the final destination: the CPU where it all gets executed and the stuff is sent into memory for later use. This process is repeated many times and well...If you want to see for yourself, just load up a game that requires an HDD install. When the game is loading, listen to your 2x BR Drive reading your disc and at the same time, you see the HDD access light blinking furiously. Is it a Sony hardware flaw? or is developers too lazy? You make the call.

What I know so far is techniques I've seen developers use after looking at the file structures of BRs (cause I got Linux) is that some common forms of data like textures and assets used constantly throughout the game is duplicated across the BRD itself to cut down on access times and keep data-rate constantly running. The HDD-installs themselves, I guess contains the other half of common assets used throughout the game to cut-down on access times. If you can cut down on access times and keep the data rate constantly flowing, then that itself can be enough to see the shortcoming of the 2x BR Drive, but we haven't seen enough games do this.

My take on the situation is that we'll never see an end to HDD installs so long as the PS3 uses the filthy 2x BR Drive. I seriously want Sony to stealth-upgrade all PS3's with a 4x BR Drive like they did with the PS2s back then. Hell I'll pay for a stand-alone 4x BR Drive and install it myself! I'm in the same boat as you and I'm tired of my GBs being used up for almost no real reason when the 360 doesn't need it. What makes matters worst is that the 360's NXE installs actually improves its loading times for most of the games, unlike the PS3's. Sony's gotta do something about this. Developers gotta do something too. I didn't pay more for the PS3 just for it to have inferior loading times compared to the 360, which the 360 is cheaper! Sony's not making me feel very comfortable buying games for its system right now because of this hassle. I buy all my multiplatform games for 360 because of this and I think that's pretty pathetic on Sony's part. If Microsoft puts out the better games versus the competition, then they'll get my money. Sorry, but that's how it is.

Not everyone can be like Naughty Dog when it comes to successful streaming textures and almost zero-loading times. The fact is that Naughty Dog DID publish their techniques about stream-loading, memory-footprints, and set-determined HDD cache on the Playstation Edge network. Why developers to this day cannot re achieve what Naughty Dog did is anyone's guess.

I refuse to upgrade my HDD because I'm not going to pay for developer's and Sony's shortcomings with more of my dollars for little-to-no loading time improvements. This is something that should be been addressed after PS3's 2nd Year. While on the other hand, I'm thinking about picking up a 120GB for my 360 because of NXE and the fact that the HDD will actually help improve loading times versus the competition. Isn't that something?

P.S. - Although FW2.5 does make me feel better though :) I've been waiting for Sequential-Video playback since forever, and that's something the 360 can't do yet.

@sonarus

I used to think the HDD-installs was because of lazy-devs like Capcom and other devs, but MGS4 requires HDD-installs AND intermittent Act Installs as well. I consider Kojima FAR from lazy and even his team can't work around it. I think this issue far escalates past "laziness" IMO. I hope Sony proves me wrong, I want to eat my own words. I want PS3's standard HDD to be its strength, not its weakness. I have alot of faith for PS3, but it's being shaken, and tested alot against the grain that is 360. I hate admitting Microsoft's better off, but well...they're better off and NXE's better installs' loading times is just going to make that much clearer to every gamer out there that what PS3 can't do right with HDDs installs, the 360 will get it right and better.

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sonarus - 436 days 4 hours ago

Well to be fair not every game requires a 5GB install.

Uncharted doesn't do any install and it is easily one of the best looking games this gen. It really just depends on the tech used on the game.

The install is just simply devs taking the lazy way out and using it because its easier. Now that 360 can do installs, most 360 games will be optimized with installs in mind. It will get to the point where to get the best out of most high end games you really have to install it. So just giving you heads up i would watch how you talk about PS3 installs before it comes back to bite you in your heiny:D

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Jpinter - 436 days 4 hours ago

It's called the Unreal Engine. It's crap on the PS3

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Jpinter - 436 days 4 hours ago

It's called the Unreal Engine and it's crap on the PS3

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OnslaughtX - 436 days 4 hours ago

Fantasy Star, thanks for making a great, educated post about why things are the way they are. It's a pity that both the 360 edition being ported over (file structure) and the PS3 format (2x BD drive) work against games (specifically ports). Ah well...

And Jpinter is right too. Pity that Epic won't do anything about it, since they are essentially in MS's pocket. (And no, I'm not trying to start crap, but let's be honest here.)

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FantasyStar - 436 days 3 hours ago

Onslaught, thanks for the compliment. While I don't think Epic is in Microsoft's Pocket, I do think they're holding hands often.

I'm still waiting for those 20 hour FPS games and 200 hour RPG games made only possible with BR, only to be hindered by fears of loading times. It's such a shame to see potential as great as Blu-Ray(BR) being wasted because of a bottleneck as silly as read-speeds.

It's funny though, I remember that Sony sent over some specialists to optimize UE3 for the PS3, but I haven't seen a game outside of UT3 that saw these benefits. I also seem to remember Silicon Knights suing Epic games over the fact that they withheld better builds of the UE3 for reasons of anti-competition. But that's just me being a crackpot-conspirist because I think Epic is doing that again with the PS3. Give the 360 the better builds of the 360, while hindering the PS3 with older builds.

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Cliff_BleSHITski - 436 days 1 hour ago

$87 on NewEgg.com gets you a 320g HDD for PS3!

Or you could buy a 120g Xbox proprietary drive for $200

Less than half the price with triple the storage! PS3 FTW!

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swinesucker - 435 days 22 hours ago

seesh, does it ever end

people acting like they are game devs hacking at the code of uncharted 2 right in front of them

give it a rest dude

and your hand too

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Variable - 435 days 20 hours ago

Fantasystar, thanks for posting a complete book, I'm sure everybody will read it!

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GravyPie - 435 days 17 hours ago

I have absolutely no problem with installing games and I cannot see what the problem is with people kicking off about it. It's what your hard drive is there for.

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RH06 - 435 days 16 hours ago

The game must be built for the ps3 to use the 40+mb a second that the drive will produce...Just like the Iron Man Bluray, way more Mb per second than the DVD, and it runs them both the same!

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HB-Sauce - 436 days 5 hours ago

I agree, but still I feel like I can't miss out it though.

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JOLLY1 - 436 days 5 hours ago

If you didn't play this on the 360, you should really get it for the ps3. It is a fantastic game.

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Hershy999 - 436 days 4 hours ago

I would have gotten this game if it weren't for all the great titles this fall.

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FantasyStar - 436 days 3 hours ago

You just owned him, bubbles+ for comprehensive studies.

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edhe - 436 days ago

Indeed,
bubbles for journalism.

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tuaamin13 - 435 days 16 hours ago

Also, I'd like to add, if the developers have to POINT OUT the changes to gamers, it's probably not significant.

Fanboys picked that demo clean in less than 12 hours after release. Now all of a sudden the devs want to go be like "See see, pretty textures right? It's better, even though we said it wasn't about a month ago. Please forget about that and buy our game"

I'm buying the game anyhow because my laptop doesn't run it, and I don't have a Xbox, and this is still a sweet game, regardless of how pretty it looks.

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DJ - 435 days 22 hours ago

Or are even the exact game show demos presented at events like E3 or TGS. But PS3 game demos run at whatever resolution you select, whether it's 480i, 480p, 720, 1080...

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pixelsword - 435 days 16 hours ago

...and the reason why PS3 owners aren't jazzed on DLC is because the Blu-Ray has the space to handle it, so we prefer wait a little longer and get the DLC goodness on the disc (like MGS4 did) rather than get the game and have DLC.

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Omegasyde - 436 days 5 hours ago

Wait till Killzone 2. The multi-player data could fit one DVD alone.

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JohnnyChimpo - 436 days 4 hours ago

Blu Ray isn't the reason for the game being enhanced, it's because of the Cell processor being able to execute mathematical equations faster then your xbox can RROD.

Of course it's better, look how many companies it took to do this, 4 companies 3 -2K companies and 1 DigitalExtreme comapany. That right there goes to show you that even the brilliant of minds couldn't quite master the PS3, because it is way ahead of it's time. As for the 360, a few simple old generic scripting here and their, and presto you have another mediocre 360 game.

I have yet to be impressed by the 360 the way Uncharted, MGS4, and LBP have impressed me in terms of next-gen graphics, controls, animation, innovation, story-telling, execution, and design.

hehehe silly 360 f@gs

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n4gzz - 436 days ago

agree.

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pixelsword - 435 days 16 hours ago

1. I'll believe 2k over you any day

2. UTIII for the 360 didn't look as good as the PS3 version, so obviously they took off some sheen and had the space to add more stuff.

3. Peter M. said similar things when he said "Fable 2 couldn't have been done on anything but the 360" when all you do is have a friend come in at any time... like a regular old co-op game, so I guess he's just saying anything to get your money too, eh?

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JohnnyChimpo - 436 days 4 hours ago

Those pics are from the Beta version, aka DEMO! No demo is ever fine tuned, what the hell do you think this article is about. Damn read the article first please before stating stupid information based on a demo

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pixelsword - 435 days 15 hours ago

...when your delayed DLC for GTA IV comes out.

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pixelsword - 435 days 15 hours ago

...so you don't sit through load screens like the 360 version.

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karlostomy - 433 days 7 hours ago

don't the games STILL load faster on the 360?

Don't they?

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karlostomy - 435 days 19 hours ago

last time i checked, 360 installs were optional and developers were instructed to make them optional.

But keep on spinning, dude.
When you get dizzy, simply spin the other way round.
(That has worked wonders for the sdf in the past)

*this message brought to you by your Spin-addicts-anonymous support group*

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