530°

id On Rage 360 Discs: MS Not Being Dickheads

Yesterday, a report quoting Rage lead designer Tim Willits saying that content had been cut from the id Software title due to the limiting size of Xbox 360 discs was quickly shot down by Willits himself.

Following the mix-up, Shacknews had a chance to sit down with Willits and put the issue to rest, as well as several other controversial topics related to Rage (PC, 360, PS3)--many of which were originally raised by id Software president John Carmack.

"As far as game content, I will swear on the lives of my children that nothing was cut," said Willits in an early shoot-down of the rumor. Now Willits says the whole thing was a classic misunderstanding."

"Microsoft is not being dickheads," he said. "It was a simple kind of miscommunication. Microsoft does not charge a royalty per disc, but there is a cost of goods that goes along with manufacturing."
BIoodmask - contributor
Published: 458 days 19 hours ago | News | PlayStation 3 | Xbox 360 | PC
 
 

123Next »
Showing: 1 - 50 of 115 Comments
1 Blademask | 458 days 20 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show
Shut this user up Let user speak
Jamie Foxx - 458 days 19 hours ago
1.1 - I WOULD HAVE MORE RESPECT
if he just said ok yeh i said it,it was my feelings and frustrations at the time,i shouldnt have publically said it and let my emotions get the better of me, instead of all this wriggling and squerming now probably because microsoft have reprimanded him,how could he not know in this age where people blindly follow a certain console that his comments would spark controversy?
Shut this user up Let user speak
JUUKENS HOT - 458 days 19 hours ago
1.2 - "As far as game content, I will swear on the lives of my children that nothing was cut,"
can we all hold a vigil for his children...RIP
Shut this user up Let user speak
Amnesiac - 458 days 19 hours ago
1.3 - Don't worry
no woman would mate with him.
1.4 theKiller | 458 days 18 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show
Shut this user up Let user speak
Ju - 458 days 18 hours ago
1.5 -
I don't even understand why that's a controversy. He said, they had to design the game in a way it works well with a disk change. So ? And they changed the level design into 2 big chunks instead of a couple of small ones. Why do they need to run circles around that argument instead of just simply saying, that's what it is. I agree, that the game might have looked different if they wouldn't have had done that, and its obvious, that the other versions have had to be adjusted towards that. I wouldn't go so far to say "the other versions suffer" because of that. If you do multiplatform, you need to take all eventualities into account. But why can't they just stick to their word instead of doing this damage control now. That looks really bad, IMO. Like someone must have kicked somebody's a.. And come on PS3boys, we are getting great exclusives this year. ID won't do PS3 exclusives, so why the out-rage ?
Shut this user up Let user speak
Rock Bottom - 458 days 17 hours ago
1.6 -
The guy hates his children.
Shut this user up Let user speak
arika - 458 days 16 hours ago
1.7 - rage on xbox (actual gameplay)
rage on xbox is going to be this way......
insert disc 1....
loading..........
then you play area 1, then when you go to area 2
please insert disc 2....
loading..........
then while playing on area 2 you have to go back area 1 because this is a sand box game and you do this a lot....
please insert disc 1....
loading..........
then so on and so forth....

this is the future of xbox 360 games! it just can not compete with ps3's future proof plan... bluray is the future for consoles.... wether we like or not it's here and its not going away, fortunately for me I LIKE IT!
Shut this user up Let user speak
deeznuts - 458 days 16 hours ago
1.8 -
Could be spin.

He said he swears nothing was "CUT"

In order to be cut it would have to have been created first. It is quite possible they wanted to do more, but didn't, because of the size limitations. So the idea was cutoff early.

I'm not saying this is what happened. I'm saying this is what could have happened. And since this is the same guy who made the "cut" comment in the first place, it is entirely plausible.
Shut this user up Let user speak
VF34EJ25 - 458 days 16 hours ago
1.9 -
Now I don't know what's going on in the development at id, but from what it sounds like. They had to reconstruct their ideas about the wastelands just to make all three versions the same. Pleasing the lowest denominator which is the 360s DVD drive.

Why cant they just suck it up, and pay for the "cost of goods" (if they now don't wanna call it royalties) and just put it on a third disc.

This is a case of two people from the same company saying opposite things. Who to believe now? I'd put my money more on Carmack though. He seems like he loves to work with MS and the 360, but is not in denial about the 360's DVD drive.
1.10 arrrgh | 458 days 11 hours ago - comment has been reported as SPAM -
Shut this user up Let user speak
Foliage - 458 days 10 hours ago
1.11 - @arrrgh
I bet you will have a hard time finding a PC without a hard drive.

PC games are almost always installed to the hard drive first because of major compression applied to the game that can't be uncompressed in real-time. That is where the 360 once again fails, no standard hard drives = no standard installs. Installs also take the disc drive speeds out of the question. Dual layer DVDs tend to get real slow on the second layer. Not to mention a lot of PCs you will find in a store now-a-days have better hardware kicking around in it than the 360 does.

Which brings me to my next point, PC games have the great ability to offer minimum and maximum required specifications with their games. Console games cannot. So when you hear that a PC game is the superior version it was likely reviewed on a high end PC. Again better hardware better results.
Shut this user up Let user speak
jlemdon - 458 days 6 hours ago
1.12 - HD-DVD
yeah the HD-DVD wouldn't have this issue right now, if it weren't for cheesy ass M$. They made me spend 200 bucks on something they was getting rid of in a few months.
1.13 godofthunder10 | 458 days 5 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show
Shut this user up Let user speak
Expy - 458 days 19 hours ago
2 -
Carmack > Willits
Shut this user up Let user speak
Statix - 458 days 18 hours ago
2.1 -
I don't understand why Carmack said one thing, and now all of a sudden Tim Willits is saying another. I could've sworn Carmack said MS charges royalties for multiple discs. It's as if some Microsoft execs pulled id aside and gave them a talking to about the greater interests.
Shut this user up Let user speak
Real Gambler - 458 days 17 hours ago
2.2 - Well, now it's not royalties anymore....
"Microsoft does not charge a royalty per disc, but there is a cost of goods that goes along with manufacturing. "

So those devs are complaining because they have to add a $.25 cost per dvd now? Very strange. Somehow, I have a feeling that they don't pay a royalty, but they may have to buy their dvds from Microsoft directly for $5.00 each : ) No royalties, just very expensive cost of goods...
Shut this user up Let user speak
Sevir04 - 458 days 16 hours ago
2.3 - what i cant understand is why does he have to cover up what he's sayinhg just because it set the internet ablaze
We all know ID software loves the 360 and the PC to death but,really dont give your preference a free pass, if it's making you cut back and using it as the lowest demoniator because of certain limitations.

we know the 360 is an extremely capable machine but MS's choice to stick with DVD at the time because 360 game development at the time was mostly PS2 ports and small size Pc ports, didn't show huge growth in games size for next gen because it was brand new. but really going into this console generation the foresight of looking forward from 1-3 years later would certainly give way to bigger games and bigger space demands. and since this is MS's blunder, skewer them because the made you cut back on your original intention...

Look at Kojima he certainly loves the PS3 but even he said that the OS3 couldn't carry out his full vision and ended up cutting out stuff for the final product. Dont give MS a free Pass just because you love there product, even Ninja theory who loves ps3 said it was horrendous working on the console because it was so damn hard to program for..

this spin still has the same out come the game was changed to accommodate the the 360 because it couldn't carryout the original vision due to space limitations of the DVD gimped technology, and thats just outside of the texture issues this game is already having on the 360 version.

Point in close carmak said the 360 version will be the weakest, you cant spin it any way, MS chose poorly with DVD and more and more devs are showing it. to the point that a multiplatform baseball game last year ranout of space and had to offer it as free download on XBL...

MS just wanted to be early and the took the wrong choice, own up and bash MS where they faltered.

thats what happens you you rush you product, you get it half baked..
Shut this user up Let user speak
DaTruth - 458 days 15 hours ago
2.4 -
He said the royalties are for proprietary software and they charge more for the third disk. There's no way to mix it up with manufacturing costs. Like XBOX fanboys always say:"Games have been releasing on multiple disks since there were disks and no one ever complained".

Honestly, Doesn't it sound like something MS would do; come on, be honest with yourselves.
Shut this user up Let user speak
gano - 458 days 19 hours ago
3 - Damn
You mean to tell me he has to be selective in what he say.
Damn, let the kids balls go. And people support companies
where a man has to make statements like his.
Wow.
Shut this user up Let user speak
aiphanes - 458 days 19 hours ago
4 - So this game is on multiple discs on the Xbox 360?
Is this true?
Shut this user up Let user speak
Relcom - 458 days 19 hours ago
4.1 -
2 discs at least confirmed
Shut this user up Let user speak
StephanieBBB - 458 days 19 hours ago
4.2 - That sucks.
disc swapping is so last gen...
Shut this user up Let user speak
The Lazy One - 458 days 19 hours ago
4.3 - last last gen...
I don't remember swapping much last gen...
Shut this user up Let user speak
TheOtherSide - 458 days 18 hours ago
4.4 - last gen !!??
StephanieBBB - 41 minutes ago

4.2 - That sucks.
disc swapping is so last gen...

if you think that, so it must mean that this gen is the one disk 5 minutes install time and long loadings. (MSG4, one disc but allot of loadings and installs :)
Shut this user up Let user speak
StephanieBBB - 458 days 18 hours ago
4.5 - See my comment at 13.2 for all your answering needs...
And now im out of bubbles so I'll see myself to the door thank you.
Shut this user up Let user speak
waltercross - 457 days 23 hours ago
4.6 - @TheOtherSide
Actually Installs are the norm, happens with every game
for the PC, this is where Sony went good at, Mandatory
Installs help the game perform, but don't just take
my word for it, Look it up.

Multi disc's is last Generation.
Shut this user up Let user speak
MURKERR - 458 days 19 hours ago
5 - can all gamers light and hold a candle in the air for his children
wave that candle slowly...RIP young ones
Shut this user up Let user speak
heyheyhey - 458 days 19 hours ago
5.1 -
..LOL!!!!! harsh, but very funny man

i doubt he's lying though
Shut this user up Let user speak
DaTruth - 458 days 15 hours ago
5.2 -
He's not lying. You have to make it before you can cut it. They had to replan the game. Oh, and the textures will suck because of high compression.
Shut this user up Let user speak
thor - 458 days 19 hours ago
6 -
MS has got angry about them downplaying their console and its limitations. So now they're trying a big U-turn right after they said THEMSELVES that DVD has held the game back. They have made decisions to re-do the structure and content of the game based upon the fact there are only 2 DVDs. So the PS3 version will be different, likely shorter, than it would have been had the 360 not been involved. The 360 version itself will likely have downgraded textures and sounds to fit the data onto the disks.
Shut this user up Let user speak
StephanieBBB - 458 days 19 hours ago
6.1 -
This game was on the doubt list before this turn of event, now it's pretty much off radar for me atleast.

To think that they wanted to have 5-6 wastelands and ended up with 2 is a huge blow to both the story and lenght of overall gameplay. I sure hope farcry 2 comes out as it "should" or else I'll be sticking to LBP for my creation addiction.
Shut this user up Let user speak
habsfan9 - 458 days 19 hours ago
6.2 - @ StephanieBBB
IMO, you should get LBP regardless of the quality of Far Cry 2, which actually looks pretty good. LBP will be epic.
Shut this user up Let user speak
GiantEnemyCrab - 458 days 18 hours ago
6.3 -
Or maybe there was some miscommunication and I think the fact that he swore on his children that nothing was cut shows how passionate he is about getting it across to gamers that nothing was cut.

The thing is PS3 fanboys(as proven by comments in this article) will continue to call BS on this and will continue to spread the FUD about the game. Some going as far as saying MS paid them or pulled them aside.

This issue is resolved as far as I'm concerned. I will believe the ID people over a bunch of nobody commentors anyday.
6.4 Blademask | 458 days 18 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show
Shut this user up Let user speak
GiantEnemyCrab - 458 days 17 hours ago
6.5 -
Blademask: Glad you are representing the PS3 fanboys. Let me say the fact that you use the word "spin" just proves what I was saying. This is NOT spin and more clarifying the facts. I don't have to say anything because the developer himself spelled it out clearly. If you refuse to believe it and you want to think sacrifices or cuts were made that is your deal.

"You can keep pretending that people are saying the article a lie, but its just a delusion. Like the rest of your life."

That comment right there proves you have to resort to insults to make your comment. You are full of fail and once again prove my original point.

Yes, if the 1 DVD9 disc isn't enough you add a second. What is the big deal? From his comments they basically changed the geographical size of the area's by removing several smaller areas and making them 2 larger ones. The key point being NOTHING WAS CUT in order to do this. PS3 gamers are not going to even notice the difference and if technically they needed to make that change there is nothing to do damage control about.

It is being blown out of proportion and sensationalised but like my original post said you will continue to spread the FUD so I am wasting my breath more than likely.
Shut this user up Let user speak
KingME - 458 days 17 hours ago
6.6 - @giantenemycrab
Careful,

If you keep getting the best of them, they'll start PMing each other to conspire to take away your bubbles. That's what they do when you're too intelligent for them. Oh, I see they have already begun to take yours. Welcome to the club.

These dudes have cult like beliefs in Sony and the PS3 and MS and the 360 is the cults sworn enemy. An you now represent the enemy since you went against them.
6.7 Blademask | 458 days 17 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show
6.8 lowcarb | 458 days 16 hours ago - deleted by mod -
Shut this user up Let user speak
DaTruth - 458 days 15 hours ago
6.9 - @lowcarb
XBOX Fanboys started the argument before PS3 was even on the market. None of us owned a next gen console and had every opportunity to purchase a 360 if we had wanted to, so there was no need to defend our purchase. How could PS3 fans shutting up stop the arguing if you all were arguing before we even owned our console?
Shut this user up Let user speak
beans - 458 days 12 hours ago
6.10 - Datruth
Actually both 360 and PS3 fans have been back and forth since the beginning but now it seems as though PS fans just can't let it go and enjoy the games. I too believe that if Sony fans would stop then this who;e fanboy war would end.
Shut this user up Let user speak
lowcarb - 458 days 19 hours ago
7 -
This poor guy had to swear on his kids only because Sony fanboys twisted what he said like they normally do with everything else. It sucks the game will be on 3 disc but then again it doesn't because the 360 version might just run and look better (based on earlier reports of how the pc and 360 were on par and ps3 lagging behind as usual)then the PS3 version. Anyways all rage is to me is Gears of war in 1st person view and vehicles which might be gimped because of the PS3 now.
Shut this user up Let user speak
habsfan9 - 458 days 19 hours ago
7.1 -
Are you completely delusional? He said it himself that because of the 360, the PS3 and PC versions would have parts cut out. If you think that any multiplatform game will look better on the 360, then you, my friend, are an idiot. Just accept the fact the 360's DVD-9 fails and that the superior PS3 and PC versions are paying for it because ID Software wants all versions to be the same........cause they're douchebags....
7.2 Blademask | 458 days 19 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show
Shut this user up Let user speak
The Lazy One - 458 days 19 hours ago
7.3 - @X.1, X.2
You prove his point.
7.4 lowcarb | 458 days 18 hours ago - deleted by mod -
Shut this user up Let user speak
Statix - 458 days 18 hours ago
7.5 -
Any developer worth his salt isn't going to say that the PS3 holds back the 360. At least, not anymore. And I would like to think that id Software is a technically competent developer.
Shut this user up Let user speak
DaTruth - 458 days 15 hours ago
7.6 - @lowcarb
How did PS3 fanboys twist it. That's exactly what Carmack said. EXACTLY WHAT CARMACK SAID!!!!!! There's no twisting required. Twice Carmack said the 360 DVD format and royalties screwed the game. TWICE!!!! And Carmack's a MS fanboy!
Shut this user up Let user speak
The Lazy One - 458 days 3 hours ago
7.7 - "That's exactly what Carmack said. EXACTLY WHAT CARMACK SAID!!!!!! There's no twisting required. Twice Carmack said the 360 DVD format and royalties screwed the game. TWICE!!!! And Carmack's a MS fanboy!"
exactly his point. He never said they "screwed the game" he said that the game would continue to be the same across all versions, and that because of the disk royalties, the 360 version may need more compression than the other versions.

He never, not once, said that "the 360 DVD format and royalties screwed the game." He never even blamed DVD's, just the royalties, for the added compression.

if you disagree find me a quote.
Shut this user up Let user speak
acdata - 458 days 19 hours ago
8 -
We haven't solved all the compression issues yet. We're close to it. The PS3 streams things slower than the 360, so by the time we ship, there may be the case where getting things off the disk faster may ultimately look better. Until we are really done, and until we can get a reporter to come to id for a 'first look,' it's really difficult to predict, because DVD streaming may play a factor."
Add Comment (Gamer Zone)
Gamer Zone Posting Guidelines
The Gamer Zone is for members who want a more friendly and civilized discussion. This section is heavily moderated by the N4G staff, so leave your fanboyism at the door please. Members who are unable to behave in a mature and respectful manner will be temporarily or permanently restricted from posting in the Gamer Zone. Using words such as Xbots and Sony droids, or other words from the console war vocabulary, is strictly prohibited in this Zone.
Read More...
 
 
You must log in to post comments.
Username:  
Password:  
 
 
About N4G
N4G is a social game news site that covers the game industry 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
More Info... | Submit News