Future 360 Games to Require Hard Drive

XF has learned that MS has plans for the 360 to do the very same thing. Games requiring the HDD will initially have a "HDD required" logo clearly viewable on the front of the case, as well being listed as requiring the HDD on the back info panel of the case.

[TriggerHappy]

hmm, recently a lot of "not enough" space on disc, lacking hard drive articles have been popping up, could all of this be leading to something ?

[CrazzyMan]

yeah, it could be. =)
ps3 don`t have problems with space on disc and have HDD in all SKU - FACT.
it`s a perfect piece of hardware for NEXTGEN games - imo.

EDIT:
true, but people disagree, lol. =))

[gta_cb]

true, but until the PS3 install base reaches the Xbox 360's its not going to be enough just having more space on the discs.

[tehcellownu]

The 360 just have to many problems...most likely devlopers will lean towards the ps3 more because it will provide them everythin they need..and more games will always increase the ps3 install base..

[DeadlyFire]

ARE YOU ALL BLIND????????????????????????? ???????????????

April 1st, 2007.....................

Its a joke.

[iceice123]

It's not true =) true next gen is with the 360, you want games you buy a 360 :)) HDD or not, it's the superior console this gen all around :))

[CrazzyMan]

i don`t wanna start a flame..
but yeah i want GAMES.

and what i got today on x360?
my favourite genres are jrpgs, slashers, survival horrors, 3d platforms, strategies.
and all what x360 got, 1 game for each genre, and it`s after 20 months!
i know, what games coming to x360, but TODAY it can`t satisfy my tastes (so and ps3, but only after 8 months).

x360 superrior? in what way?
1) ps3 has Blu-ray
2) ps3 has HDD in all SKU
3) ps3 is RELIABLE
so.. in what way x360 is superrior?
maybe for you, and some x360 owners, but for me, today definately NOT, and in near future probably also NOT.

[AngryTypingGuy]

@ Deadly Fire: Unless I missed something, it says Aug 1, 2007: today.

[Thugbot187]

I think it is you that is blind. It says Aug 1st. Next use a bit of common sense it wouldn't get approved if it was that old. If you read the article it references events that have taken place recently.

[Umbrella Corp]

if you remember Crazzyman the playstation 2 won the console war because of games if i were to follow you on your theory then xbox would have won and to let you know the xbox 360 has been having great games and my ps3 (yes i have one)is collecting dust.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

All I can say is hahaha you are a CrazzyMan, exclusives get lost because of one consoles popularity or because someone buys the rights and it just so happens that the 360 is more popular.

[CrazzyMan]

5-7 years it was ok, for not having online, not having hdd. Games was enough as reason for wining console war.
you see, for wining in last generation for xbox, it should have a good brand, high japan developers support, good price, a lot AAA titles.

you are wrong, if you think, that several reason is enough for winning.
============================= =============================== ========
ok, my point.
ps2 - many AAA games, price, japan support, respectable brand.
xbox - hardware, online.
winner - ps2.

ps3 - hardware, many AAA games, japan support(just wait TGS07), respectable brand, (better price in future), free online.
x360 - online for money, lower price, capcom+sakaguchi and fŸcked brand with RROD.

i mean, several reasons is not enough for winning. All reasons make you a winner.
when price on PS3 goes down, it will be even better then ps2 in all ways.

[nasim]

shame on MS??

rather than giving a HDD free to core owners MS are actually ripping them off with a 100% defective console

[JsonHenry]

I think this has more to do with being able to use the HDD as a cache for information, not a limitation on disc size.

No one whined and cried when they had to switch discs ONCE while playing and of the Resident evil series games.

And of course lets not mention the fact that the fetch time for the PS3 Blu-ray players are slower than that of the 360's DVD player...

[True Gamer King]

CrazzyMan
I hope you are crazy or your just in denial the 360 is by far a superior console it has a ton more games and great lineup that crushes the PS3s lineup. And I would gladly pay money for a better and more experienced online service. And I don't give a crap about Blu-Ray that's the reason why the PS3 costs more money. Microsoft gives you a choice if you wan't an HD-DVD player, they don't force it on you and make you spend more money than you have to. And as for power or graphics I haven't seen any games on PS3 that look better than Gears of War and almost all the multi-ptatform games look better on the 360.

So you ask in what way is the 360 better, the answer is EVERY WAY.

nasim
You need to shut up and don't say things like shame on Microsoft or that there ripping people off. Microsoft is 5 times the company sony is.

And we don't know if this is true or the full details (just because they say they learned about this doesn't meen anything they could be full of crap or got wrong information, it happens all the time. And if it is true I'm sure Microsoft has a plan.) So no one talk trash about microsoft or the 360 until we do find out everything.

[SteinigerGE]

Console build quality and reliability.

I guess you can't win them all! You sure you want to stick with "EVERY WAY"?

[True Gamer King]

I have had my 360 since the release and I just had my first problom a week ago. And my 360 didn't just break down and stop working it stilled worked my disk reader just burnt out because I play it to much and it's always on (so whenever I was on the dashboard and tried to click play disk it just said unplayable disk), and do you know why it's always being played and on, it's because of how many good games there are to play on the 360 and how much fun it is to play the 360. So Microsoft fixed the problem and are sending me back a new 360 free of charge. So if I have to send my 360 in every 3 years because of the fact that my 360 is being used to much because there are so many good games out. Then I would rather have that happen than not having enough games to play and having my console sit in the corner collecting dust like every sony fans PS3.

So to answer your question if I want to stick with what I said the asnwer is yep!

The 360 is better in "EVERY WAY!"

[CrazzyMan]

Today blu-ray player included in PS3 for FREE - is a Really nice GIFT from Sony.

explanation:

x360 premium 20GB - 400$.
ps3 60GB - 500$.

for additional 100$ you get + 40GB + wi-fi + card readers + free online gaming + some Big (MGS, FF, GT, GoW and etc.) AAA titles which will be only on PS3.
additional x360 20GB Hard Drive Disc itself cost 100$.

Blu-ray cost you NOTHING today.

Half year ago blu-ray cost for ps3 users 100$, for those who wanted cheap blu-ray player included in PS3, for those who wanted get Faster(FIRST) into HD 1080p movie. =)

TODAY YOU GET A BLU-RAY PLAYER FOR FREE.

plus:
1) 25-50GB disc will be more comfortable for gaming - fact.
2) it will be easier for developers create games and using HDD (just like in Oblivion) - fact.
3) cell power will provide amazing physics and AI - fact.
4) motion controler + nextgen vibration - fact.

<< And I would gladly pay money for a better and more experienced online service. And I don't give a crap about Blu-Ray that's the reason why the PS3 costs more money. Microsoft gives you a choice if you wan't an HD-DVD player >>
LOL, what choice?? when you get blu-ray for FREE! =))

btw Uncharted looks better. =)
GT5 the prettiest racing game. =)
Ratchet is like a pixar movie game. =)
so you better eat, then talk. =)))

there is nothing great about x360 today, only for fps and 3rd action games lovers, that`s all. =))
and it`s after 1,5 year! btw, ps3 outselling x360 in USA(europe and japan) with price 100$ more, when price get 400$, x360 will be humilated. =))

[DeadlyFire]

Apparently I am going Blind. I see Aug now. Must need new glasses I suppose. I see there are 2 stupid people that agreed with me on it being April. I suggest they go get some glasses as well. :P

This is still rumor and even if MS dropped their Core SKU they would still have about half their console owners without a HDD. Since most bought the Core model in 2005. If they were to force half their console owners to buy new consoles I would think they would rather jump ship than buy another SKU of the same console half way into its life because the games would require a HDD. I suppose they could just buy the HDD add on though. I still wouldn't suggest forcing console owners to go out and do this though.

[True Gamer King]

I guaranty you if there was no Blue-Ray it would cost $100 to $150 cheaper. Blu-Ray is not free if it was the PS3 would cost the same amount as the 360. And do you wan't to know why they dropped the price to $500 it's because no one was buying there console mainly because of the cost and the lack of good games. They were forced to drop the price. Your saying Blue-Ray is now free that's Bull Sh1t, the only thing that changed after the price cut is everything got a little cheaper, because sony was forced to drop the price. So now instead of paying $150 to $200 for a Blu-Ray player your paying $100 to $150. And if you think Sony would have dropped the price if they didn't have to your a complete idiot. Microsoft never had to make a price cut because they were actually selling consoles they still don't have to make a price cut because they will continue to sell more consoles than Sony. If they choose to make a price cut which they probably will, the PS3 will be in the same spot it was before, which was a console that cost a lot more than its competitors and wasn't as good (which basically means a waste of money.

Sony made a big mistake by including a Blu-Ray player. If they hadn't included it, the PS3 probably would have cost $400 to $450 which would have allowed them to sell a lot more consoles, they still wouldn't sell as many games as the 360, because of the PS3s lack of good games, but they would have still sold a lot more consoles, and that would have put them in a far better position and there would be no need in a price drop, where they are now not make as much money on each console as they were.

So by saying Sony is giving you a Blu-Ray player for free that is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. So you may want to wake up out of what dream your in and relize nothing is free in this world and nothing ever will be.

Oh and the 360 will never be humilated, it's the PS3 that should be humilated, the PS3s the one that was forced to make a $100 price cut in the first 9 mounths of its release. LOL how embarrassing LOL. :)

[Salvadore]

If they had just drop the Core in the beginning, they wouldn't need this.

[Vfor5]

Amen brother. Microsoft just stuck their foot in their mouth. Sh1t, the 360 could have been such a great console if they wouldn't have rushed it. seriously. Don't get me wrong, I love the 360, but it could be the perfect console.

[P4KY B]

?

[gta_cb]

most probadly, not a prob for me =D i mean seriously who on this website actually brought a core? i went straight for the Premium

[Captain Tuttle]

When my crappy Premium died 2 days before Gears of War was released. With the warranty extension I've now got 2 360's, much to the chagrin of my wife.

[vidoardes]

Hmm... what's that... what's that smell? Ah yes, the impending scent of a flame war...

[Nemesis]

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

[Dread1981]

Firebat in starcraft gotta love them :-))

[AuburnTiger]

If MS was to do this, it would be a huge blow to anyone that bought a core 360. And then you gotta think about developers, are they going to make a game if it means to cut the userbase by a 1/3 (assuming that 1/3 of 360s sold was a core)

[Nemesis]

Could also have the opposite effect though, with developers now having the option of targeting HDD equipped 360's exclusively, should it prove necessary.

If I had my way, MS would just abolish the core system completely. I mean, how much can it really cost MS to include an HDD with the 360 when I can buy a 60 gig laptop HDD for £30. MS could probably get them for a third of that price and swallow the cost themselves without having to pass it onto the consumer.

I didn't disagree with you BTW.

[Infernus]

Nemesis you're absolutely right. MS could get lots of HDD's cheap, especially when buying in bulk.

Auburn, the developers will indeed be missing a quite significant chunk of the 360 market by needing a HDD for their game(s). I dunno if you're right with the 1/3 of all 360's but it's probably not far off that much.

It just goes to show Sony look ahead more than 3 years when they make a console. MS just wanted cheap components to help push out a console faster than Sony and have ended up with the basic console being restricted after less than 2 years.

You can't rush out a games console if you want to make money and MS have pretty much proved that point already. MS have shot themselves in the foot with the Core imo and it's about to become all the more evident over the coming months on the road to 2008 - 'The year of BIG games'.

360 owners can't really argue that the Core owners will get ripped off when all the big games require a HDD and they can't play them. I hated not having enough room on my PS2 memory card and having to buy another one. I always saw Sony as this company that makes money on extras and peripherals you have to buy for the console like the memory cards and the multitaps and what not, but this gen they've included all that's necessary (You only really have to buy a HDMI cable and that's only if you own a HDTV), whereas MS have become what I saw Sony as before, they charge for the HD-DVD drive, online play, wireless adapter, etc etc and now we have this HDD issue too.

I dunno but MS are just playing their 360 owners around, saying the console is cheaper when overall it's just not. It's just that people are blindly buying the console then saying "Oh so I have to pay for that. Well that's fine because MS gave us a choice. Oh and I have to pay to play online, but that's fine because XBL has loads of downloadable content on it, oh wait I can't fit all that on my system as I don't have enough HDD space. Oh well at least they gave me the choice to buy a new HDD. Well I can still play Halo 3 so everything's fine."

I'm sorry to sound like the stereotypical PS3 fanboy but that's how I see this issue atm. That's why I have a problem with the 360, because of the MANY extra charges you have to pay to get close to the functionality of a PS3. When MS talk about choices, they're mentioning the things that should be standard in a next-gen console. The choices thing comes into play with the XBL and PSN content because you have the choice about whether or not to pay for that content (Except on XBL you have to pay an annual fee but you get my drift).

[Vfor5]

You should also be sorry that your fukcing post is longer than the bible. Damn boi.

[Omega Kaze]

Is that developers are having some trouble putting all this information onto these disks. So having a hard drive (expecially for the future) will be necessary. As long as it doesnt take up too much space then it shouldnt be too bad...hopefully.

..and if it is bad, then many people are going to be pretty angry...just a little...yeahh...

[vidoardes]

when a game streams data to the HDD, it uses it like a temporary RAM, so you wouldn't have to worry about it taking up space. Some games can 'install' part of themselves to the HDD, whcih in turn does require permant room taken up on ya storage disc. Two differant scenarios mate

[Omega Kaze]

didnt know that, well thank you
Learn something new everyday.

[vidoardes]

I'm think I'm pretty safe in sayign that most of the devs prefer to use the streaming option, so your HDD space would be safe. It's why the PS3 load times are (supposedly) quicker for Oblivion

[Nemesis]

This can only be a good thing. I've never understood Microsoft's reluctance to give the developers what they want on this issue. They must have been calling for this for a while.

[edit] Hey, looks like i got myself a stalker. Let me guess... nasim, you little scrote.

[Ju]

I cannot confirm that Oblivion streams from HD or caches from BD, what it does, however, is it duplicates sectors (BD is big enough) and reduces seek times resulting in much faster media access.

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

If they drop the price of the 20 gb Hdd then people will buy one...100 $ for 20 gbs was the early 90 this is 07 my 200 gb HDd i got for 100.. oh yeah I just got my last gb of ram...GEARS OF WAR PC bring IT

[gta_cb]

you can get an external 500GB HDD for about £69.99 so yeh i think the Xbox 360 HDD needs a price cut.

[ben hates you]

you complain complain about everything Microsoft yet you use their softare

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

I have nothing against bill gates windows and so forth I even want a Zune..over an Ipod .. I just see most 360 as the PC console and i have never been a pc gamer..Im more consoles bias and with all those PC ports just seems to me as so..also I am getting a 360 just for halo and too human

[Nemesis]

As a 360 owner I have to admit, Microsoft have been ripping the consumer off with the price of their HDD's. I can buy a 60GB laptop HDD for £30 (about $50) and i'm sure MS can get them a lot cheaper than that. Profiteering is one thing, but when it starts depriving developers the tools they need to make great games, it's time to stop.

[Tempo]

its now what almost two years in and that mofo is still $99 in most places. [amazon has it slightly reduced 89.99]. So yeah that pretty f@uk'd up.

[SimmoUK]

Got to love MS, so much for core owners, this validates Sony's decision to include a HDD with every model sold...

[Omega Kaze]

The last generation all xbox's came with hard drive, now they tried to give people the option to get one or not. But this doesnt make any sense anyways because everyone needs memory to save things anyways. Expecially when alot about you console has to do with online and downloading things to begin with!

Oh microsoft...

[gta_cb]

yeh kinda funny, then again i only see people buying cores for people who dont have internet (very low ammount) or for young ones to play games like Viva Pinata lol. hardcore gamers and even the average gamer in my eyes should have brought the Xbox 360 Premium or waited for the Elite.

[lVlemphizStylez]

just stop saying that already...because youre dead wrong..I know ALOT of people that bought the Core and I plan to purchase one myself...Just because you didn't buy one doesn't mean other people don't buy it...

[Nemesis]

I always thought MS made a huge mistake not including an HDD as standard. The things are so cheap, there's no reason not to.

[ericbs]

It is good cause it will help Microsoft have a sku around the price of a wii. Also, if i wanted to do system link, i would just go out and buy a core.

[HokieFan]

I do love my 360, but I think the lack of a standard hard drive was a poor choice on their part. The Xbox had it, why would they go backwards? I think there are valid arguments on both sides over their decision to go with DVD instead of HD DVD or Blu-ray, but I don't see the argument for no hard drive.

[nicodemus]

I completely agree. Microsoft never should have had a HDD-less sku. If anything, all skus (including the core) should have had a 10 gb, non-removable HDD, so that if people wanted to forgo downloading arcade games and stuff, then they wouldn't need the Premium, which should've had a 20 gb HDD, on top of the built-in 10 gb. (Didn't have to be those exact numbers, but you get my drift)...

[Valin]

Ok so if this is true then here are my predictions Microsoft will first of all drop the core to between 199 and 249. This will be very similar to sonys strategy of droping an old SKU and selling it all off at a discounted price then bringing a new sku in to fill the gap but in MS's case no new unit will be brought in as the PRO is already there.

Second prediction. THE HDD add ons will recieve 30 and 80 dollar price drops respectivly. Microsoft want us to download content off XBL and htey are currently charging way above cost price for these add-ons at the moment.

Third Prediction Price drop for Pro will only be in US and Japan However Elite and Core system will be discounted across all regions. Europe will recieve a bundle similar to sonys strter package. I'm assuming this will co-inside with Halo 3 launchand the launch of the chat pad and the bundle will look something like this.

Xbox 360 console
2 wireless Gaming pads
20 GB HDD
1 wired headset
1 chat pad
All cables + Halo 3.

[Meus Renaissance]

Shane Kim did an interview yesterday where he said Microsoft will NOT do business with developers who force the need of a HDD for their games.

I'd rather believe him than this article. So I call this debunked.

[HokieFan]

I thought he said that they would "push back" against the developers, not that they wouldn't do business with them. I have to believe that if they said they would put Metal Gear Solid on the 360 if it could require a HD, Microsoft would agree to their terms. :)

[Meus Renaissance]

"Push back" means a No. Not "please dont force us"

[HokieFan]

You really think MS would turn down MGS over the hard drive issue? I'm sure they're pretty strict about it, but I have a feeling some huge game down the line is going to require it, and MS will have to give in.

[Meus Renaissance]

MGS isn't dependant on a HDD as much as it is on Blu-Ray. Unless MS would agree to 6 or 7 discs?

Or a stripped down version of MGS4 a.k.a. "the cheap man's version".

[Gorgon]

Microsoft says many things...like for example that there were no problems with Xbox 360's hardware...

They WILL accept games that require HDD, if need be. And I think there will be a need for that. It was a pretty stupid decision on the part of MS not to make the HDD standard with this console's generation and the needs of next-gen titles.

[kewlkat007]

Hey this is still the PC model, plus doesn't game run and load faster on a HDD?

Plus whats up with this article,

http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

I could of sworn they said the Core will be here forever? Unless someones lieing.... anyhow this is still Rumor but the titles is missing the infamous Question Mark, as always.

Why is there no ?, the title states as if its fact, let me see who approve..well there ya go.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Maybe this validates the stories of Microsoft dropping the core? Drop the price, sell it through the holidays and than drop the core like an ex g/f...than drop the price of the HDD to $50 and you still only paid $350 for your console with a HDD...if that takes place that's really not a big deal. If I bought a console and than in 2 years I knew I had to pay like $50 so it would help the games I wouldn't really complain. And no everyone I am not condoning the lack of the hard drive in the first place, no I am not a "Microsoft sheep" blind to the fact they have made some really BAD decisions. But if what I explained above does happen, while stupid, it wouldn't be a really big deal

[gta_cb]

didnt read all of your comment, but if MS was going to drop the core, then surely they wouldnt put this on the games as there not going to have a SKU without a HDD available, and would "expect" (aka make) the core owners to buy a HDD... a little confusing...

[360Sheep]

doest oblivion require the use of a HDD?

[HokieFan]

Not technically, but it would be tough to complete that game in one sitting with no way to save it. :) It needs at least a memory card, but the HD isn't required.

[solidt12]

I am glad they are doing this. I have a PS3 and 360 and you can see a difference in the quality on some 3rd party games on the PS3. The load times are better when you have a hardrive, and I notice most PS3 games have more content. The 360 needs this to allow developers to grow there games.

[tehcellownu]

microsoft screw the people with the core system..lol..

[Whoooop]

I think is a good decision on their part.

They will rape all the core users sooner or later, but I think they are willing to sacrifice that small amount of owners so they can help developers do their job easier.

Good business decision nevertheless IMO.

[tehcellownu]

raping the core users is good business?? if i have a core ill give them a big middle finger to them..lol..

[Whoooop]

If your decision hurts a small part but benefits a WHOLE lot other (in this case the majority of 360 users) then that sacrifice can be considered good business.

People and companies get to do sacrifices like this every day..

[CrazzyMan]

you just proved PS3`s higher price. =)))

[Whoooop]

I think PS3 higher price caused by their confidence/arrogance on Bluray it's starting to pay off and will pay off even more in the future..

so it was a good business decision from SONY. :)

PS: CrazzyMan give me your PSN...
My laziness is starting to fade and I'm beginning to add people on my list.

[Figboy]

good business, to *ME, would be *NOT to screw *ANY of your userbase in the first place.

we can argue about the Blu Ray/HD DVD/DVD issue all day, but Microsoft *SHOULD have included a hard drive in *EVERY 360 from day one.

now, Core users either have to buy the $100 20gig HDD, or the $180 120gig HDD.

not only was Sony's decision to include Blu Ray in the PS3 a good move, but including an HDD in every SKU standard was a good move too.

i would have preferred for MS to have released the 360 in November 2006, with all the bells and whistles (HD DVD drive, larger hard drive, etc. it would have been about as much as the Elite), than rush the system out a year too soon, then have to backpaddle about quite a few aspects of the machine.

then: "1080p isn't needed."
now: "you can have 1080p output via VGA."

then: "you won't see any 1080p games this generation."
now: "you can upscale to 1080p on the 360!"

then: "HDMI isn't needed."
now: "The 360 Elite has HDMI!"

then: "No games will require the HDD. It's all about choice."
now: "Some games will require the HDD. you can *CHOOSE either the 20gig or the 120 gig HDD!"

then: "DVD is enough for next gen games."
now: "PGR 4 won't have day or night cycles because we can't fit it on the DVD. Mass Effect is having trouble being fit on a DVD. GTAIV is having issues being fit on a DVD."

then: "We'll never have a Blu Ray drive add-on for the 360. it's all about choice."
now: "if Blu Ray wins, we *MAY consider an add-on as an option. maybe."

i'm sorry, but they've made quite a few interesting turnarounds in the past year and a half, and to me, that signifies either short-sightedness on their part, or a lack of vision. take your pick.

i really want a 360, but things like this just keep on holding me back.

yes, i coughed up $600 for a PS3, but so far, i have no complaints. the hardware is reliable, it has a *LOT of cool features, and it has a few games worth popping into the drive, with some *REALLY good ones hitting before it's first birthday.

you don't hear about Sony releasing a buttload of add-ons to add features that should have been included.

we're starting to see Microsoft's cost-saving decisions come back and bite them on the rear.

do you think Core users are happy they'll be *FORCED to upgrade their console if they want to play new games?

what happened to choice?

even with the PS3's two SKUs at the beginning, having a 20gig or 60gig didn't matter to the games. still doesn't.

so you don't have Wi Fi, or memory stick readers. big deal, Wi Fi can be included via a $30 adaptor. the memory stick readers can be remedied with a cheap USB periphial. even lacking those features, both consoles did the same thing.

the 20gig HDD on the 360, once formatted, only gives you 13gigs free. if you like having videos and demos on your 360, you'll be out of room in no time. if you're all into this digital download thing like a lot of 360ers seem to be (at least whenever the necessity of a higher capacity disc medium is brought up), the only choice you really have is the 120gig HDD. which isn't cheap.

the 60gig HDD on the PS3, once formatted, gives you 55gigs free.

after including a bunch of demos, music, videos, and photos, i still have 20gigs free, and i haven't done any housecleaning on it yet (you know, getting rid of saves from games i don't own or play anymore, deleting old vids and music and demos, etc.).

if i were a Core 360 user, i'd be pretty pissed about now. especially since the 360 isn't compatible with just *ANY 2.5" SATA HDD, like the PS3 is.

if i need more than 60gigs, i can run out and buy a 160gig SATA HDD for much less than the $180 that 360 users have to shell out for their 120gig HDD (i just checked newegg, and found a 200gb 2.5" SATA hard drive for $140. a 250gig was $190. an 80gig is $50, and MS wants you to pay $100 for 20??).

the only positive about this is that games won't be held back so much due to the DVD, but the consumer is being shortchanged here, especially considering how closed a platform the 360 is for non-proprietary periphials.

i don't mean to sound like a PS3 advertisement, but it being so open to things like keyboards, mice, headsets, HDDs, etc, give you more, and generally *CHEAPER options, even if you *ARE paying a high price initially (though the console is $500 now, so it's an even better deal).

don't get me wrong, the 360 is a *GOOD machine. as long as you buy the Premium or Elite, and even then, the Premium's hard drive may not be enough if you love to download stuff, and need to partially install games on the HDD.

[Whoooop]

Is all that directed at me?? or only the first comment and the rest is in general???

I'm asking because I agree with everything you said..

I was just saying that in the position that MS is right now, it's a good decision if they decide to please devs with the HDD requirement.. Even if some get raped.. :)

Besides MO on that, I totally agree with everything you wrote.

[TLSBill]

Great summary. The then/now is a good list, I remember with the original xbox they slammed the PS2 for not having a HD(then), then decided they didn't need one (Core, not quite as "then"), to same games will require it (now).

Maybe that's why it's called the 360?

I just want them to get it right so I can buy a box and play Mass Effect & PGR4..

[ben hates you]

most likely anyone who buys a core is probley just saving money for the hard drive later

[tehcellownu]

you mean the overprice hard drive??

[celticlonewolf]

Would be this so bad well yes and no I mean a article not long ago posted here siad that teh core only made up 20% of the 360 sales now how many of them got a harddrive as well or got one later on theres really no way of knowing. If this happens then only some games will have this as a need and if teh price of the core comes down and the price of the hard drive then people will still get a fairly good deal depending on how much the drop is when all this takes effect. I mean one could look at it like 299(if the bought it at launch) around 2 years of play time and then spend a nother 80 to play some of the top end games. Or later when and if this takes effect with a rpice cut of lets just say 100, 199 plus mem card 30 play the games already out and when a game comes out that you have to have the hard drive puy 80 or what ever they will drop it to. Should ms have realesed all the 360 with hd well maybe but I think the core was really aimed at the kids not the hardcore gamer where the games are not very big and can fit on a dvd9. I think ms didnt figure how the wii would corner that market so completly. I think with the right prise drop this will work out fine for them and atleast keep them in the game longer and keep develpers happy. Maybe this is what they ment when they said BR dvd wasnt needed who knows maybe along they figured they might have to do this to keep up. Goodgaming everyone

[Erocket76]

Why are people so stupid? Why would anyone want to buy a bare bones system and then keep having to add this and that and do with out having this and that. Why not just get the better machine that already has everything in the first place. I have a lot of friends who got the 360 because they thought they were saving money. They have spent a lot more than I did for the PS3. My friend tells me, man that PS3 is just too much money. I can't afford it right now. So he buys the 360, then he buys the Hard Drive then $200 for the HD-DVD drive?!?!?!?!!?!??! MORONS!!!!! I don't get it???!?!?!?!

[XXDeathBringRXX]

Why buy a core?

[power of Green]

Not really its just that fanboys are posting this type of news over other types more often for one reason or another.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Microsoft already stated recently in regards to GTA4 on the hard drive issue and was asked what if Rockstar say HDD required to play the game? MS advised they are working closely with Rockstar to ensure that never happens as they do NOT want to alienate the CORE user.

[tehcellownu]

So what would you say if Rockstar Games demanded you have a hard drive if you want to play GTAIV on the Xbox 360?

SK: We get to make the call on who gets published on our platform...[inaudible] we'd push back on any publisher saying things like that.

23: that would lead publisher to drop support..

[nicodemus]

I can't believe it's taken this long (assuming this rumor turns out to be true). One of the biggest advantages of xbox over ps2, and it was scrapped from 360!? It's been irritating me to no end as long as I've had the system, playing Oblivion and thinking: "How much better could this have been, if the game didn't have to be compatible for the lowest denominator? (HDD-less 'Core')"

It's not gonna happen, but I really wish Halo 3 had a "HDD Required" sticker. That way, I'd know they'd been able to try for the absolute maximum out of the console...

Drop the core MS. Do it now, today!

[harpua]

"Microsoft, We're sorta kinda next-gen gaming"

[Azures]

Its not enough that they didn't make HDDs standard, why do they make them cost SO much to the consumer? $100 for a 20 gig hd?!?! $100 for a wireless adapter? 160gig internal notebook hdd for $100 on newegg, probably less with their random price cuts and mail-in rebates. $50 for a top of the line usb wireless broadband adapter.

GTA4 requiring hdd space is not surprising at all, the sheer size of the new Liberty City with that level of hd graphics...the load times might be outrageous without being able to save some info on the hdd for streaming.

[Thump1967]

Have close to 10 friends that have the core but since the 120 came they have a modified premium let it role baby

[Bill Gates]

I thought the original xbox was one of the best consoles EVER. Right up there with the Dreamcast, and PS2. With that said, after being witness to the way M$ handled the original xbox, and past business practices, I could only sit back and watch as M$ was getting ready to rip consumers like xbots a new butt hole. It's a sad thing this 360 thing. A SAD thing indeed...HAHHAHHAHAHHAHA

[Odion]

ya until i see some kind of real proof of this I am talking this as 100% rumor.

However the Core does only account for less then 20% of people, and if they just dropped the 20 gig HD down to like 40 bucks and dropped the 120 gig then their prob wouldn't be that big of a thing.

I don't see the 4 million PS3 owners complaining that their all going to have to buy the rumble controller for like 60 or 70 bucks to play rumble games.

[lVlemphizStylez]

you used a horrible example...I'll let you retract it...Because there is a daunting difference between a controller that would add a feature to a game and a HDD that is "REQUIRED" to play the game to begin with...You can still play your MGS4 without rumble...But if something is REQUIRED, well it means exactly that...you can't go further WITHOUT IT...

haha I got a disagree with no rebuttal...Cute. Caveman mentality.

[The Wood]

The Xbox might not have won the last title fight but it did win some rounds by having things like hdd as standard (quick feet), better graphics (harder punch), bigger media format (great uppercut). What ms has failed to do in the rematch is remember SOME the techniques that won it some of the rounds in the first fight and the larger media format (great uppercut) and (quick feet) were not improved upon.

[LiquifiedArt]

Support that crappy company known as Microsoft, and you get crappy support and poor choice. Keep blindgly following the Green Power. You Guys are so blind its funny.

~whatever enjoy...

[mintrieri]

The only reason to cache to the HDD is to speed up load times. So, there is no technical reason to require the HDD if the engine is coded to handle both cases.

Also, dropping the bottom SKU goes against Microsoft's entire business plan, of bringing the 360 to a mass market price.

And finally, MS just admitted a hardware problem and set aside a Billion dollars to make sure their customers where being taken care of. This is not the act of a company who will turn around and start making incompatible games.

This rumor is just a off-shoot of the current fanboy driven 'DVD9 is teh suxors' crap we've been hearing. Just stop it.

[lVlemphizStylez]

alright I'm a reasonable man...I'll talk to the fanboy minions on the Sony side to stop, if you talk to the Xbox fanboy minions and tell them to stop the MGS4 rumors...Deal?? (I'd say they are equally as unfounded and stupid)

[mintrieri]

=)

Agreed! Truce then.

-MGS4 is not coming to 360 and will remain exclusive to PS3 until the end of time.

-DVD9 will never be a limiting factor for a 360 game, as never getting off the couch to change a Blu-Ray disk during a 200-hour session will lead to heart disease and therefore less PS3 customers. (Damn, I tried but it's so damn hard not to crack a joke!)

Cheers, IV.

[sandip787]

that comparison is, well in a word, LAME.
anyway, if only 20% percent of people own a core, then i guess it doesnt matter. oh wait, wouldnt 20% of 360 owners be over 2 million?!
now that is a big old shaft to the rear.
now dont say that nobody buys core - ive just proved that wrong. also, dont say that core comes with memory card. because it doesnt. not in the uk anyway, i checked game and gamestation today. now im not saying the 360 is a bad system, i really arent, but it was a bad choice not including any form of HDD. 10gb would have been great.

[LiquifiedArt]

Support Microsoft? Do you really want them to ruin the gaming industry? cause tahts what is happening gradually. Soon enough you'll be upgrading your console every year or 2, with Ram, and various components, and paying 50$/month for what the PC does for free. Take a mental note at all the "BIG" 360 games are PC games too. odd?? me thinks not.

Am i the only one on the REality Bandwagon?

[Nemesis]

I think even the most hardcore 360 fans have to agree that MS dropped the ball on this one. Not including an HDD as standard is probably the worst decision made by the Xbox team.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

The core just should have come with a 5GB HDD. something small but enough for use with games that need it.

That said, I have ZERO problems with them making games that require a Hard Drive...the core is a small percentage of gamers anyway...and lets be honest...those with the core most likely are not hardcore gamers ...and therefore wouldnt be playing a game that needed it anyway.

[tk]

They should have done it from the start. the puny 20GB will not do too good with this. Would need the 120GB to be viable. Pity about no standard HD like the PS3 - otherwise the core owners could upgrade - now they will pay through their noses for an upgrade.

[Adamalicious]

Microsoft is in a tough spot with this one. The lack of an HDD definitely makes things tricky for developers, but allowing them to require it opens up a whole can of worms. Microsoft sure isn't going to want to subsidize HDDs for all the core owners out there, and they can't afford to just leave them out in the cold. Moving forward I think we're going to see this becoming more and more of an issue.

[Keyser]

I wonder what portion of 360 sales are core? Does anyone know?

[harpua]

Its probably their core sales. [slaps knee]

[AngryTypingGuy]

Why should people who have a HDD suffer for the people without it? I think it's great that this is happening. What do people without a HDD do? Don't they ever shut their 360 off?

[ALIEN]

Here's my opinion!

I think Ps3 is the perfect gaming maching, I mean, not perfect, but the PS3 offers alot of good things for $500. All the PS3 needed was games, n that's no longer a problem, because they are coming, "this fall and all da way through 08". While 360 have the games, but it doesn't offer what PS3 offers, n that is going to hurt 360 in the long run. And please don't tell me PS3 has no games.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

LOL...Oh come on, you pretty much dared us all not to say it...I just couldn't resist.

PS3 has some games...and certainly has more coming. Better? ;)

[Ru]

I hope it true!

[DJ]

5% of 360 owners I believe, so it won't affect very many users relatively speaking. However, this does how how short-sighted Microsoft was in making an HDD-less 360. Even the low-end PS3 had a Hard Drive AND HDMI.

[lVlemphizStylez]

where'd you pull that 5% statistic from....Oh yea, the air...sorry but lets not throw around numbers without a source...

[the_gaming_guy]

1) Why can't people be open minded to other people's opinions?

2) I own a 360, but I don't slag off the PS3. Why? Because I know that I feel that I made a good choice in consoles. I went for the console which offered me the best games, the best price and the best online. But, the does not mean that the PS3 is redundant in my mind. Give me some decent exclusive games such as GT, LittleBigPlanet and The Getaway and I'm interested.

3) I also hate this talk about the PS3 having disc space for THE FUTURE. I don't know about you guys, but I live in the present, and I wouldn't mind if Microsoft released a new console in a few years which would contain technology that makes Sony ashamed.

4) I am not a fanboy, I own a PS2, PSP, Ds Lite, 360 and a Wii. I make my own decisions and I am voicing my OPINION. You may disagree, but just stop and think about it.

Thank you.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Your comments were well stated, nicely organized and lacking fanboy overtones.

Are you sure you are on the right site? ;) +bubble

[Azures]

If Microsoft keeps digging themselves holes with these consoles their might not be in it next generation at all.

[Fux4Bux]

Well not having a standard HDD has been 360's worst limitation alongside DVD9s. And it has nothing to do with how good the games are. It has to do with what more developers could've done with the caching and disk space. You think those 5 extra GeOW single player levels in the PC version were made specifically for it? No, chances are they had to cut them to make space.

But yeah I hope they do this. The Core was a huge mistake to begin with and should've been discontinued long ago.

And really this is also just another instance of MS tricking their customers and then screwing them over by forcing the purchase of accessories.

[TheMART]

So wait a second.

"Recent rumors regarding games being "dumbed down" abound, coupled with word from our contacts last week that the the Core was being discontinued had lead us to believe MS was about to make a big change to the way 360 games are made."

They combine a rumour with another rumour of possible discontinuing the Core.

The last has been shot down by MS so...

This whole newsstory is incorrect?!

[Shaka2K6]

They are gonna force those people who bought the core for $300 to buy a real next gen. console like a PS3 of if they are fans of xbox they will have to spend $400 more just beacuase they are not gonna be able to play the next games.
come on microsoft stop milking your fans and screwing your costumers cant believe therea alot of people here supporting such crap.
like someone said around here a while back.

reason 12938485 not to own a xbox 360.

[TheMART]

Read this Bottleneck 3 fanboy

"Recent rumors regarding games being "dumbed down" abound, coupled with word from our contacts last week that the the Core was being discontinued had lead us to believe MS was about to make a big change to the way 360 games are made."

They combine a rumour with another rumour of possible discontinuing the Core.

The last has been shot down by MS so...

This whole newsstory is incorrect?!

[DaEnforcer]

Looks like all Core users got screwed, now they all will have to buy the ridiculously overpriced HDD's

[BIadestarX]

People that do not have a hard drive got screwed?
First we got SOny fanboys saying that the Core is not selling.. and microsoft should take it off the market. Now.. they make it sound as if everyone has a core...

Ok... let's see.. who has a core without a hard drive? Anyone?

I remember, for the PS2.. some games required a hard drive... and some of us got it to play those games...

Some games right now require a hard drive to play... Final Fanasy XI does...

Anyone wanting to play one of these games that do require a hard drive will most likely have a hard drive. People buying the core... are usually people that don't even play online, play casual games or not the few games that will require a hard drive.

Besides, how much is a hard drive? I can find it for $80. If I want a game really bad... do you think $80 will stop me? People buy the games.. and if the game they like requires something... they will simply go and buy it... which is why people buy racing wheels, etc.

If someone that wants to play Metal Gear is willing to pay $500-$600(new SKU) + $60 the game... do you think they will have a problem paying $80 for a hard drive to play a game they want to play and get to use the drive for all other games?

Once again, low life Sony fanboys are trying to make a big deal out of something that's not... Heck... tell that to people that have wii consoles... they don't even have the option.. and you don't see the complaining...

The core has it's purpose... for example, I currently own 2 xbox 360... I have one attached to my TV in the living room... plug to my monitor... that way... when people are watching TV I can still play.

I am thinking about buying a 3rd one to put it in my bed room... Why would I want a hard drive for? I already have 2. That's where the core comes in... when microsoft drops the price... it will cost $250.

Unlike the PS3 the xbox 360 hard drive snaps very quickly... no need to have 2-3 hard drives... and I am thankful microsoft is not forcing me to pay for the drive, even if I am not going to use it.

Or better yet.. sometimes I have friends that come to my home... having to plug the console is a pain... have them bring their hard drive... quick and easy...

[doublertist]

ps2 didn't have a hard drive...
some games need hd for ps2...

Welcome to the next generation of gaming...games require more space now then they did before this is not your parents Nintendo or atari, the systems now are advanced and need space for updates, no one predicted that ps2 would need those things but they were put on there as add on's so maybe someday some company could utilize it, where as PS3 knows that people will need the space in the future for games, just stop trying to fight the facts and admit that MS made a big mistake by offering a system with no HD...and if you ask most 360 people why they bought the system its to play Halo but now they cant play more than whats on the CD and they will have to play a dumbed down version since they have no HD for getting all the extra features...
also you compare spending $500+ on MGS and a PS3...basically spend $400 on a 360 then $180 on a hddvd drive then $60 for halo 3 and you still cant play the game in 1080i?

anyways i have swayed from my point...this is a next generation system and should have a hd and the fact that MS didnt look this far in the future shows that they have not planned well and will eventually alienate a section of their fans

[lVlemphizStylez]

80 dollars USED for 20 gigs ....you see NOTHING wrong with that??? Maybe you're the blind fanboy...You prefer the MS HD that REQUIRES you go to them to purchase over 100% on the dollar per gig of memory over the PS3 system which takes any standard HD purchased at any computer store??...For your 80 bucks or a little more ppl have gone up to 120 gigs on their PS3..And when the time comes, they can upgrade further...How much does MS charge for 120 gigs?? Oh wasn't it like 180 bucks???

[MarioFromTexas]

and forcing blu ray on gamers, but it's okay for M$ to now forced $100 20gb harddrive to play 360 games, it's funny how you xbots have double standards...I guess 360 gives you choices ok, if you want to play multiplayer games it's $50, if you want hdmi it's $479, the way I see it that's not choice that's a requirement if you can't get the same experiance from 1 sku, when the PS3 comes ready to play games right out of the box....

[0LDSCH00L]

IN what way is the 360 superior? well I will explain!

#1) A LIBRARY OF 500 GAMES!!
#2) SUPERIOR ONLINE, ONLY IDIOTS DISSAGREE!!!
#3) SUPERIOR SUPPORT & SEVICE
#4) AN INSTALL BASE OF ALMOST 12 MILLION!!!
#5) BEING ABLE TO GAME WITH PC (games for Windows)

[Rageanitus]

With a ~1.5 year lead They only have a few games I want to play
gears of war ( which is coming on pc), r6vegas (ITs multiplatform, graw (its on pc), graw2 ( multiplatform)

I would expect much better for a paid service, and even so I experienced much intense battles on a pc multiplayer (xbox multiplayer simply does not compare.... but maybe it has all the stats recorded, but do I really care) Maybe its too difficult for the simple minded to find multiplayer sessions on the pc.

Support... no comment

Install base of 11 million as a first mover sounds mediocre.

I dont see many pc gamers playing with xbox boys the market is different.

And did I mention reliablity!!!

[chelcho]

AD.1 This is truth
AD.2 Can you play 40 players online and for free?
AD.3 This is big plus for unreliable console LOL
AD.4 vgcharts says 10,25 millon and no one knows how much is working
AD.5 Is this so big advantage? I'd rather prefer play on PC then x0

There is only one x0 advantage over ps3: games library and this will change soon :)

[TheMART]

I'LL JUST KEEP REPEATING BECAUSE NO ONE SEEMS TO FREAKIN' READ!!!!

So wait a second.

"Recent rumors regarding games being "dumbed down" abound, coupled with word from our contacts last week that the the Core was being discontinued had lead us to believe MS was about to make a big change to the way 360 games are made."

They combine a rumour with another rumour of possible discontinuing the Core.

The last has been shot down by MS so...

This whole newsstory is incorrect?!

The Core 360 IS not cut by MS. They keep selling that. The use of the HDD is also a rumour.

So there is nothing to worry about. Yeah one thing:

THe PS3 BluRay drive is too slow to read properly, so they use the HDD. That's not nescessary with the 360, the DVD drive is much faster. Just see the games compared starting up!

[Azures]

"THe PS3 BluRay drive is too slow to read properly, so they use the HDD. That's not nescessary with the 360, the DVD drive is much faster. Just see the games compared starting up!"

So you've begun blatantly making up facts now? Wonderful.

The drive read speed is comparable, especially on mastered discs like games.

[felidae]

you really have to tell me what's so special about the 360.

I own one since yesterday (bought it for Halo 3) and right now ... i really don't know what to play.

One thing's for sure. Now i know that exclusives and some multi titles look definitely better on the ps3.

Everybody told me that the new Flatout is amazing and that it looks like Motorstorm and stuff. Today i played the demo; damn, that stinks. Motorstorm is 10 levels higher.

Ace Combat doesn't look that good. Blacksite demo has framerate issues, Blue Dragon demo ... OMG, so bad, Dirt has framerate issues, Fight Night R3 looks and plays way better on the ps3.

So what's left. Gears? ... i've played that 6 months ago on my last 360

Please, tell me - what game should i play?

Back to Heavenly Sword demo.

[Thugbot187]

I honestly say get rid of the core. It really doesn’t have an advantage other than people just wanting to be cheap or not thinking. If you buy one of those memory cards they are like 30 bucks for 16mb so you should just pay for the premium version get the hard drive so you can save games and call it a day. Besides having a hard drive with more space helps devs give us games with better graphics and A.I.

[doublertist]

why its not...

1)Look at the game line up coming up for PS3, quantity is nothing compared to QUALITY
2)Charging for online, PS3 is free and still getting better everyday, just wait for PS HOME, so call me an idiot but ill be the idiot whos $80 richer than you
3)has anyone had a problem with their PS3 which they needed support? where it wasnt clearly SONYs fault?
4)install base took 2 years to build with no competition...
5)if anyone wants to game with PC's, get a PC and play for free

[RadientFlux]

Supporting Piracy I see.

As for Quality it depends on your preference. If you prefer western games then xbox 360's line up has the Quality. If you prefer japanese games then PS3 has the Quality you want. Just because you don't like a certain genre doesn't mean that genre is crap.

[doublertist]

first person shooters = 360 until killzone 2 comes out

everything else = PS3

WERD!!!

[GameHero]

Oh yea, thats that black box thing that they quit making. I been useing that to hold my door open...I forgot about that, it does play games anymore, but it sure allows a nice breeze to come in.

Gotta run, going to revisit "God of War 2" on the "PS2"...

JK, it was a good machine for its time, too bad it didn't last...hey at least it had a built in hard drive.

[Shaka2K6]

@HAPPY70

IN what way is the 360 superior? well I will explain!

#1) A LIBRARY OF 500 GAMES!!
most PC,PS3,PS2 ports....

#2) SUPERIOR ONLINE, ONLY IDIOTS DISSAGREE!!!
well for $80/year you better get something thats really worth it eh.

#3) SUPERIOR SUPPORT & SEVICE.
Hahahahahahaha dont make me laugh son.

#4) AN INSTALL BASE OF ALMOST 12 MILLION!!!
On which about 1/2 of them already have their x360 bricked and the rest will soon follow after.

#5) BEING ABLE TO GAME WITH PC (games for Windows)
We know most games for x360 eventually come out later on PC and better this makes the x360 very uselesss as a gaming system.

as always xbox fanbois weak flambait/easy target.

[RadientFlux]

jeez take one rumour article about the x360 and watch PS3 fanboys write the same old generic comments they write in every article.

Actually that might be a good idea, keep approving the x360 rumour stories and keep the PS3 fanboys away from the good articles. So when I want to read something about Halo 3 the first thing that comes up is not a 12 year old's comment on how Halo 3 is gay.

[cloud360]

I have all 3. wait i forget just yesterday i traded my wii and 360 core for an x360 elite (used).

i think the ps3 wud definatley be the better con*ole(??) if it had a wide variety of games to choose from.

..............well sony really fuc*ed this one up. but wait didnt the ps2 have the same problem until Final Fantasy X was released in japan 2001 start selling 1.7 million first week. the ps3 just needs a killer game

[GameHero]

Halo 3 is Gay!

Just kidding....that was funny though!

[Vip3r]

This is why I like to have everything at once because sooner or later not having an important part with come back to haunt you.

[Lightning Mr Bubbles]

I'm still thinking of what games to buy this holiday. My most anticipated game is Rockstars new supposely for the PS3. I want some sick new IP's. I'm disappointed in gaming right now, it's not different enough from last gen.

Not to mention a lot of the current house hold names are going multi platform because of development costs and more level competition. I want game developers to be more ambitious. Multi platform games suck. We need new IPs.

[Rageanitus]

This will silence or tone down some xbot propaganda. Samething happened with the hd-dvd vs blu-ray fiasco

I still remember hearing xbots chirping away that 9 gb dvd's are good enough for all games. I guess were going to see future xbox games installed on HD's just like PC's having been doing for many many years.

For the ps3 consumer they dont have to worry too much about purchasing a new HD, because it will be mostly used for mods,addons, demos etc... smaller things things rather than manditory Installs. And even so the hd is not proprietory so a consumer can simly put a new hd easily if they wanted (Pc style)

I can smell it now xbots debate will sponaneously change from we dont need more than 9 gig's to omg the load times are much faster.. Which is good but you still have to buy a proprietory HD which is dam expensive .

[mintrieri]

Wow. Is this thread still going on?

People, the article is from one obscure site that references an unknown source and provides no evidence.

It is BOGUS.

Here are some more rumors for you: "Sony Home will require a real-estate license and 2nd morgage!" or "Cell Chip achieves sentience and demands Constitutional marriage rights!" or "Massive storage of Blu-Ray eclipses sun. Millions parish!" There, they were written on a web-site and so must be true. Shame people.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Good the games will run more smooth, PC games run more smooth because of this. This is only a bad thing to disc lovers or PS3 fans, infact the only ones who even care about disc are PS3 fans and you guys are so outnumbered PC, 360 and the Wii you guys don't even have enough PS3 to impact the gaming industry, so good luck with that.

[Figboy]

Sorry!

just that first sentence was actually directed at you, everything after was me getting carried away and going on a rant. lol.

after about the fourth paragraph, i *FORGOT i was even talking to anybody. lol.

[ASSASSYN 36o]

Where was all the sony boys when the ps2 didn't even have a harddrive. If it wasn't for xbox ps3 might have never even had a harddrive. I never met anyone on xbox-live or in person that didn't have a harddrive on their xbox 360. Technically all games already require it because of downloads, and patches. Memory cards can only go so far for even the light gamers.

[jlemdon]

and make games that going to use up all the space make it for HD-DVD and then use the HDD for faster loading time.

[FeralPhoenix]

The 360 is great, aside from its past hardware problems I think its the best gaming platform hands down, but IMO M$ definitely made a mistake not to include HDD in all SKU's, I know some believe they should have included one of the HD formats but I believe DVD9 will be fine for games for quite some time, AAA games like ME and Halo3 are all the proof I need to see but HDD in all SKU's would have been another option that dev's could have used for games, space is definitely a benefit of HD medium,(positive for PS3 devs) but its not a must have IMO, a HDD in all sku's would be much more beneficial, I think it was M$'s biggest mistake not including it.

Yeah, yeah I know they wanted a lower entry level sku but really the vast majority of gamers do not want the Core, its sales a far far behind the Elite and Premium in comparison......so actually its a relative small amount of Core owners and everyday it gets smaller because most of them eventually buy the hard drive.... really ask the store workers at your local Gamestop for yourself, most of those who buy Core's fall into 1 of 2 categories......1 either they don't play online and just simply want to play a few next gen games as cheap as possible or 2 younger kids who can't wait until they have the extra money saved for a premium but plan to buy a HDD later on. I understand M$ wants to make it affordable but IMO the existence of the Core hurts them more than it helps them, because most of those who purchased the Core would have brought the Premium anyway, they just would have had to wait a little longer thats all, so that only leaves a very small percent who won't ever buy a HDD and that small percent doesn't justify M$ not giving the dev's the ability of using the HDD as an option.

[MK_Red]

Its really bad when a company does something that hurts some of early buyers. With Elite and now Halo 360's announced many normal Premium adopters felt rather bad and now they're doing this to Core owners?

But that must be done as some devs including GTA4's are already complaining about Core systems' lack of HDD.

[Shaka2K6]

All multi games like AC,GTA4,DMC4 ect. are going to downgraded to a console with last gen. media,no hardrive and no 1080p support with HDMI.
ahhh this is why i hate multi games so much.

[bootsielon]

Why? Because Core users tricked into getting "the same" can't really play every game available on the platform. That's like a Sega CD or 32X move. You have to pay at least $100 to play every game now if you have a Tard Pack.

You know why I feel more screwed though? Because I got the "Premium" pack, assuming I was getting "the best". I didn't even get 20GB of space, it was only 13GB, and I'm a hardcore gamer, a heavy console user, and a videophile too. Microsoft should have released the "Elite" first, then the Premium to reach casuals, and never the tard pack.

Now I'm screwed with either constantly deleting and administrating content (like I wasn't already) on my measly 20 GB (i.e. 13 GB) HDD, or buying a 179 GB HDD. What a load of sh1t.

I've downloaded almost every thing there is to be downloaded to my PS3, and I still have about 20 GB left. That's more than you get with a Premium 360, and yet I have lots of content on my HDD.

Edit:

Dr. Pepper, you failed to notice that I said 90% has either Core OR premium. I'm considering the Elite too, as it is available, you know. I say screwed because they always said Xbox 360 games would NOT require the HDD. Furthermore, there was never a choice to upgrade until one or two months ago when the Elite came out, and it's too expensive compared to third party alternatives on PS3. On PS3 you can upgrade to ANY HDD you want. Furthermore, even when the 20 GB version was available, there was always the CHOICE to get one with a decent amount of space for games. Xbox 360's only decent option for games, especially now that games will REQUIRE HDD, is the Elite. Unfortunately, most users will never get the Elite. How's that not gonna piss every 13 GB HDD user, I don't know.

I say yes to better working games. I say no to chicanery, and what Microsoft did to Core owners, and even early adopters of the Premium system was that.

And by the way, it IS 13 GB, not 16.

[Dr Pepper]

I'm pretty sure 90% of 360 owners don't own the core version. And I'm pretty sure you start out with 16 GB, not 13 like you said, with the remaining 4 GB used to help the 360 function better and faster.

I think this is good news, why should we say no to better functioning games?

[greed]

That is why i am glad that i bought a ps3 no problems other then the lack of games but that will soon be resolved.

[Toolman]

I have the Premium already, but i have to say Microsoft dropped the ball on this.
They got it right the first time with the Xbox, why mess it up so badly on the 360?

Geez talk about shooting your self in the foot

[ElementX]

Who really cares? The Core buyers are probably casual gamers. Not every new game will require a HD. Just the larger ones that probably can't fit on a DVD. Casual gamers play occasionally. They don't buy 30+ hour games, which will probably be the ones using HD anyway.

[True Gamer King]

Couldn't agree with you more.

[Bloodmask]

When games are coded they can detect for HDD.

If HDD is detected it will be used for streaming. If HDD is not present streaming will not be used.

All games will always be compatible with core just load times will be slower. Because of no streaming from hard drive.

The only games that would possibly be affected are online only games bc hard drive is neede for XBOX Live.

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

I cant believe some peoples defense to this.

1.Who really cares? The Core buyers are probably casual gamers. Not every new game will require a HD. Just the larger ones that probably can't fit on a DVD. -Element X

2.If HDD is detected it will be used for streaming. If HDD is not present straming will not be used.
All games will always be compatible with core just load times will be slower and. Because of no streaming from hard drive.
The only games that would possibly be affected are online only games bc hard drive is neede for XBOX Live. -Bloodmask

3.If it wasn't for xbox ps3 might have never even had a harddrive. I never met anyone on xbox-live or in person that didn't have a harddrive on their xbox 360 -ASSASSYN 36o

4.However the Core does only account for less then 20% of people, and if they just dropped the 20 gig HD down to like 40 bucks and dropped the 120 gig then their prob wouldn't be that big of a thing. -Odion

Keep telling yourselves that.

[ElementX]

Sure, Mr. I own a PS3. Well I own both systems. The Core system is marketed towards casual gamers, people without an HDTV (no HD cable included), people who don't care about wireless (wired controllers included), people who don't want to DL addons and patches (no HD included), furthermore, no headset for online gaming.

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

so i`m mr.ps3 now.
well i had a 360 before it broke.

and your still making excuses for a broken console.

[btkadams]

well duh, who didnt see this one coming.

[Kaneda]

that bought the core system... :) they didn't see it coming...

[KillJoi99]

Who is this XF site?

[RussianSniper]

Like having to pay for repairs wasn't enough, now those poor souls need to buy a harddrive to play.

[Kaneda]

Can you upgrade HD on xbox? or do you have to buy a brand new system?

[SteinigerGE]

I think you have the definition of "push back" wrong. If you look at dictionary.com, the definition is, "cause to move back by force or influence". So it actually means that M$ will use it's considerable influence to "strongly encourage developers to come with an alternative (non HDD requiring) solution". It does not simply mean "No".

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

This would truely let 360 games expand their capabilities for sure. Imagine the sequels to 360 exclusives if they utilize the hard drive? they shall be really glorious. Also to all the people who bought a core and never had expected the use of a hard drive are blind in my opinion. The core is more of a version you buy with knowing you'll NEED more components later, keeping that in mind. It's a version that you SHOULD know that you WILL NEED TO upgrade. I just waited till I could get the premium. All in all I think this is a great move, this will lead to some amazing things for the 360's games!

P.S. = I honestly have got to say Sony messed up hardcore not including the HDMI cord in with the system, and Im rather thankful that my television supports HDMI as well. Cause when I first got my PS3, I didn't have the HDMI cable on day 1. I got it a week later. But that first week I had been playing through component, Resistance looked like a PS2 game... it was sad. To anyone without HD-TV's and HDMI... that are playing PS3's currently... Im so sorry for you. Fortunately for me I get to expierence the full package. Next-Gen gaming with all you need to buy now-a-days is feeling like more of a expensive burden more than entertainment also... in my opinion that is!

Im also having faith in LAIR once again... as it has been delayed to add new online like features? maybe so! but the main reason as I know (and you're a fool if you don't think this) they will be adding where you can choose to use joysticks or sixaxiss while in the air! what you think?

Good gaming to all of you!!!!!

Find me on LIVE @ Xbox360me

Find me on PSN @ SeanKWD

[skylar2000]

www.xbox360sucks.com

[marcellizot]

I have avoided the comments for so long and as soon as I start reading them agaian it's just the same old tripe.

It never fails to amaze me how many people still talk about their console 'winning'. What does this actually mean? Are you going to buy your console a little gold medal and drape it around its cables if it shifts more units than its compeitors?

We all have preferences, fair enough, but does anyone actually think that if they can somehow prove their favourite system is better (impossible no matter what console you favour) than the competition, others with different consoles will somehow start to enjoy their favourite gaming system less?

It is all so illogical, if I was Spock, my head would have exploded by now.

Ok, rant over, resume flaming whilst I go and enjoy some gaming

[pandabear]

Wait a minute I saw an interview just a few days ago with microsoft and when asked what if Rockstar said we're making GTA for you but everyone will need an HDD to play it - and the reply was something olong the lines of - we're in control of what games are released and we wouldn't work with anyone who would alienate any of our customers. Is this just lies then M$ ????? Have M$ finally realised that they have f*$ked up this gen by going backwards when every xbox had a built in HDD - why would you take it out, oh of course to 'give the consumer choice'

[DiLeCtioN]

didnt we know this already

[DaEnforcer]

Too bad now the causal gamers won't be able to buy all the games they want ;)

[Bathyj]

I called this from the start and its a shame. I never liked the idea of a HD less SKU cos of this reason. Coming next before the end of this generation "HDDVD drive required to play this game."

[Kirderf]

So this means you wont be able to play all games for the 360 if you don't have a harddrive? And if you have a HD and it gets full, do you have to delete stuff from the hardrive then? Now I'm seriously considering to buy a ps3... but got no money so can't do it :/

[Asylumchild]

They have to keep changing the xbox360 because of the PS3 being more powerful. It truely is hiliarious. PS3 come out with HDMI so they make the xbox360 elite with HDMI and more GB to double the PS3. Now all these games that are being made and studios that have shifted over to disigning games for ps3 because they can go such farther, now xbox360 is going to have games where you need to buy the HD DVD spending $200 for it... so what $400+$200=$600 xbox360 has amazing online so I probly will end up buying this peice of crap HD-DVD even thoguh I dont own a HDTV but what the hell I'm all ready on my 3rd xbox360 I dont really care anymore...

[Maddens Raiders]

*_*
*_*
*_*

W3LCOM3 CHANG3
PLAY B3YOND

[NextGen24Gamer]

I don't mind if certain games release requiring the Hard drive. And Most gamers who own a 360 have the premium anyway. The only people upset about this are Ps3 owners. 360 owners are just fine with this if it pans out. Core owners would still get to play 99% of the 360 games. But they can always pick up a hard drive if there is a game released that requires it. If that ever happens I would assume MS would lower the price of the 20 gig hard drive. Maybe to coincide with the price cut.

[M1am1U]

the thing is, Core users were using some form of storage for game saves and XBLA downloads to begin with. Either they bought a HDD, or a memory card. If all they bought was a memory card, they're not really out that much if they have to upgrade to a HDD. So, it doesn't really seem like big news to me. Realistically, how many gamers out there play a game and not save it? I would imagine they would be in the extreme minority. I agree with you EliteGamer, a reduced 20Gb HDD would be a nice concession for Core users that haven't already purchased one.

[Asylumchild]

Im a 360 owner and im a bit upset... I dont own a HDTV and dont have $200 to buy on a player for hd dvds I would have bought a PS3 if so... If I ever save up $200 im going to save another $50 to buy a Wii not some HD-DVD drive...

[M1am1U]

they are referring to a HDD (Hard drive), not an HD-DVD player. It won't be necessary to have an HD-DVD player to play games, but it may be necessary to have a HDD.

[BrainDrain]

This was always one of my biggest gripes about the 360, that they chose to have one model with a HD and one without. Thus, forcing developers to program for the lowest common denominator (no HD).

It may not adversly affect my gameplay that much, but it would nice to have all units have a HD. Hopefully they eventually scrap the Core unit and redesign the console to have an included drive (like the PS3).

[doublertist]

360 finally realized that they need to have a HD as well as HDMI support which can play 1080p, they need to completely redesign their console but find a way not to alienate their current users but they need to find a way to offer these things they didnt expect to need when they rushed the system out the door...too bad they have already lost so much money extending their warranty and replacing so many xbox's, so that prettymuch ends the talk of them trying to bring their origional customers and fans into the REAL next generation of gameing with better definition on their televisions and the space necessary to save and play the new games that come out unless they are willing to fork out the money for a 360 elite.