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Microsoft shipped 5.2M Xbox 360s in the December quarter

GamesBeat: In its earnings report today, Microsoft said it shipped 5.2 million new Xbox 360 game consoles, bringing the total sold to date since 2005 to 39 million.

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THE MAX SPEED 215204d ago

Great news for MS. 2010 will be a Great year for them they can expect better Console Sales thanks to the better number of games in their release calender.

techie5204d ago

Down from 6 million in 2008 just to put it in context. Profits way up though - so good for them.

green5204d ago

Hardware sales down 12% but operating profits increase by 188%.Microsoft must be extremelly pleased with those figures because it now means that the 360 has been making money for 3 years now.2010 is looking like it will top the lot.

Hellsvacancy5204d ago

"Shipped" NOT sold - theres the difference

thewhoopimen5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

Microsoft spent about $75 million less marketing the console compared to a year ago, and research and development was down $50 million, or 10 percent, because of layoffs. - from article

So that's where a good chunk of the operating profit is coming from... We're talking close to if not 33%

5204d ago
Oner5204d ago

@ Hellsvacancy ~ I was going to say the same thing but in the form of a question like...Can someone please explain how even in the title it says SHIPPED along with part of the article actually saying ~

"Microsoft said it ***SHIPPED*** 5.2 million new Xbox 360 game consoles, bringing the total sold to date since 2005 to 39 million."

and how that equates to SOLD?!?! Just because you SHIPPED 5.2 Million does not mean you SOLD 5.2 Million. And since MS is known for stuffing channels how can that statement be true! Especially since MS does not count "sell through" to customers but rather "sell in" to retailers only...THUS only SHIPPING 5.2 Million.

IdleLeeSiuLung5204d ago

God dang! This means hopefully MS will invest more into Xbox!!!

Jamescagney5204d ago

Haven't we had this argument before? All manufacturers list as shipped sales, meaning 'they're gone, sold' as they have no real means of getting the figures of what actually sells to the consumer. They sell to the places that sell to the consumer, when it's gone from their warehouses and is in the hands of another - it's sold.

SOAD5204d ago

SHIPPED and SOLD denote the same thing.

Sony says SOLD to retailers. Microsft says SHIPPED to retailers.

Either way, once Microsoft and Sony send their console units to the retailer, that is the end of the transaction. Microsoft and Sony make their revenue only from the transaction between themselves and the retailer.

So, there's no difference. It is still a great success for Microsoft.

gaffyh5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

@cagney - Yes we've had that argument before, but people make it out as being impossible to calculate "sold" numbers ever, which is simply not true. Sony's decision to announce "sold to consumer" numbers rather than "shipped to retailers" numbers was widely reported by many many news sites when they announced it a few years ago. They even mentioned that this was a risky strategy, because it will mean that shareholders will truly be able to see how much consoles Sony is actually selling.

As someone has mentioned above, it is not that difficult to calculate "sell-through". As soon as a retailer has run out of console, it places an order for more, therefore the amount that was previously ordered, is what was sold. "Sell-in" on the other hand is what is shipped to retailers, and is what Microsoft (and Nintendo as far as we've heard) report in their numbers. Meaning any consoles in the channel are also counted as sold.

I've said it before, you can track sales of anything, may not be 100% accurate, but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than taking the shipped numbers. Anyway this is quite off-topic.

Oner5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

Sony & Nintendo count "sell through" to customers while MS count "sell in" to retailers. This has been PROVEN many times before but "certain gamer types" don't want to believe it and just won't let it go...I have said it before NUMEROUS times and will just repost the whole thing to save me time ~

Isn't it funny how "certain gamer types" always say this ~

"All companies report what they have sold to retailers"

Yet never produce ANY AMOUNT of links or evidence to support this statement? Only their opinion & plain words. No facts. No Proof...just empty claims. But yet there are others (like myself) who can ACTUALLY show proof to the contrary that Nintendo & Sony are the ONLY 2 COMPANIES who track "Sell Through" not "Sell In" ~

http://www.psu.com/PlayStat...

http://kotaku.com/357883/ps...

http://kotaku.com/5157636/s...

http://www.edge-online.com/...

What do people think? That it's the 1950's and that there is some Pocket protector wearing book keeper with a Pencil/Paper in hand and an Abacus on his side who tabulates orders/sales or something?

I mean FFS people come on now! Seriously! Get with the times! ALL MAJOR COMPANIES CAN TRACK SALES TO CONSUMERS digitally via PC...THAT is how business is done/ran! Especially ones of the caliber like Amazon, BestBuy, Target, Walmart, CompUSA, Toy"R"Us and MANY thousands of others! It is not as difficult as "certain gamer types" are trying to make it seem/be.

It's honestly laughable the amount of BS that people spew without proof around here! Whatever...but here is another interesting little know fact about how MS does things ~

http://kotaku.com/gaming/mi...

http://www.informationarbit...

What really is amazing though is how this damned article even says SHIPPED but then combines that somehow to equate SOLD and "certain gamer types" just won't comprehend or question the black and white words/proof right in front of their eyes!

Edit: Disagree all you want ~ I don't see any links or verifiable information to prove me wrong.

Edit 2: @ Cagney ~ Nope. Not worked up at all. I just dislike improper/invalid mis-information being spread as "factual" without any support to back empty claims.

Edit 3: @ jalen247 ~ You're right. And I actually do agree with you when you say "congrats to Microsoft for their success throughout 2009". I just wish it was done properly/correctly and not backhandedly/false...

Jamescagney5204d ago

You're getting quite worked up aren't you Oner?

Calm down. Breathe deeply.

jalen2475204d ago

Don't waste your time. People on this site are mostly kids or nieve adults. They will believe what they want to believe even if the facts are presented to them.

Everyone should know that Microsoft's numbers are shipped to retailers numbers and Sony's numbers are sold to customers numbers. Those are the facts. But people can continue believing what they want to.

Regardless, congrats to Microsoft for their success throughout 2009.

Jamescagney5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

I see no facts. Present some conclusive facts. Conclusive, not links with something that says Sony only says they say sold not shipped. Hard facts, I would like to see them.

Pistolero5204d ago

Not this sh*t again....they all report sold to retail.

Sez 5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

http://www.gamegrep.com/ind...

"In the Supplemental Data [Both PDFs, JP and EN], we also get a quarter-by-quarter breakdown of hardware and software unit sales to retail, not end-user, meaning shipped for fiscal year 2006 and the first half of fiscal year 2007"

@gaffyh

did you even looked at the links he provided? i rest my case.

gaffyh5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

@Oner - Don't bother getting worked up about it man. No matter how much proof you give, people always seem to think that "sold to consumer" and "shipped to retail" are the same. Even though the words are different, and therefore mean different things.

:D

@Vega - Old. Sony started reporting sold numbers in 2007. Yeah I read them, but I also remember seeing an area on Sony's Japanese website that clearly differentiated between Sold to retail and sold to consumer, but they removed the IR page.

@pistolero - If there's PROOF, AND THEY ANNOUNCED IT, how is it not true? That's like if I said, an Apple is a fruit, that's a fact, and you say it's a vegetable. You think they can get away with lying to their shareholders? Also I explained how sell-through works, but seems like you are the one that's 12, because you can't understand.

Pistolero5204d ago

If you guys think Sony keeps track of individual sales to consumers you are simply completely naive about how this stuff works....how old are you guys?...12?

u got owned5204d ago

@ Oner

I want to know how Sony know how many consoles the have sold World Wide to costumers, because i have not seen any evidence, now since you think you know please show us proof of it, not links with something that says Sony says, please show us facts.

All companies show sold to retailers not to costumer since they have no way of knowing

Oner5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

Even in this article http://news.spong.com/artic... where Chris Lewis (Microsoft's vice president Interactive Entertainment Business for Europe, the Middle East and Africa - EMEA) states this ~

"We count installed base differently to (SCEE). We count the number of units in the hands of consumers."

And later was clarified by SCEE as to exactly how it did calculate its sales - and which territories it covered. A spokesman for the company (SCE) had responded as follows:

"We calculate our install base by 'sell through' and have done for the last four years I believe", we asked for a little additional clarification...

"We classify 'sell through' as the number of units consumers have actually purchased from retail. 'Sell in' is the number of units we've sold to retail."

Chris Lewis was incorrect and the Microsoft EMEA was then asked for FURTHER clarification of which they NEVER replied back to DISPUTE the claim by SCEE & at the same time DEFEND the claim that MS counts sold to consumers.

That was the ONE and only time EVER that ANY spokesperson from MS said they count "Sell through" and it was NEVER corroborated, supported, defended or proven. Whereas there have been NUMEROUS account from Nintendo and Sony doing the contrary.

You can believe what you want...you will anyway...But there is more evidence, information, spokes persons & press releases that supports what I am saying over what other say about "sold to retailers".

@ vega75 ~ you gave **1** link that was old while I gave a few that ranged from the launch to as recent as September 2009 all supporting "Sell Through". If you have more info I would like to see it. I have no problem being proven wrong...just give me more proof.

@ below ~ and you can believe whatever you want but this isn't the 1950's and technology can track what has and is being sold...if not how would business' know if they are profiting and do proper accounting? Hell how could the USPS, UPS, DHL and any other number of package companies be able to track items IN REAL TIME!?!?!

u got owned5204d ago

@ Oner

Dont let your passion for Sony fool you, if you think Sony knows how many consoles they have sold to costumers then you are lost buddy. What ever make you feel better.

heroprotagonist5204d ago

It's true. If you think any company knows exactly how many of their consoles are currently in people's homes, you are lost.

Bzone245204d ago

sony contacts every single retailer in the world that sells any of their products each and every month to get the sold to consumer numbers.

NPD reports sony's, among the other consoles, sales every month in North America. sony responds to these numbers every month. Even though they already have the numbers because they collected them themselves.

They never dispute NPD's or any of the other companies reporting the number sold in other countries, because they are always spot on with the numbers sony collected by contacting each and every retailer in the world. /s

soxfan20055204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

Nintendo reported it's Wii & DS numbers today, and they specifically mention "sold to retailers".

http://news.vgchartz.com/ne...

Tinted Eyes5204d ago

I find it hilarious that even though poeple post proof they still go "bu bu bu they both used shipped"

Hilarious

ThanatosDMC5204d ago

No matter how much you argue logic to fanboys it will fail. But yes, i agree with you completely especially your argument of how postal service works since hundreds of millions are shipped around the world. I watched that episode of UPS in discovery channel.

Sez 5204d ago

i don't have to prove fifty links. all i needed was one to prove a point. sony counts sold to retailer as well as nintendo and MS. if sony could count sold to consumers. why would they wait for NPD,media create,ect. to get WW sales. and being as NPD numbers aren't 100%. sony could easily provide accurate numbers in which there wouldn't be a need for those outlets.

Hellsvacancy5204d ago

Good 4-u Oner, u stick by ya guns mate

Bubble +1 2-u

Dev8 ing5204d ago

When did any of the Big 3 ever wait for NPD numbers? They respond to the figures released which would be stupid not to spin the news to make your console seem good ie free advertising. I worked at an electronics store in the 90's and back then the companies knew exactly how many tv's were being sold. Hitachi for example had points for every tv sold and people could track their points on the Hitachi site so not only were hitachi tracking the tv's sold they were also tracking which salesman sold them. Hatachi wasn't the only company, the accessory companies tracked each stores accessory levels and when the number of items of a particular sku dropped below a threshold the retailer specified they would automatically ship more of that item.

That all happened in the 90's. Distributors track retail numbers this is a fact. It is in the retailer's interest for them to do this.

Oner5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

TY guys...although it was at the expense of 2 of my bubbles down from 8 earlier today and from 9 or 10 just a few weeks ago. But that's okay ~ I'd rather be right and properly informed with 1 bubble than talk BS, propagate misinformation and have 10.

Bottom line is this ~ those who don't understand or willingly comprehend that this is the year 2010 and there is PROVEN technology that can track such things in real time are the ones who are TRULY lost.

But I will say this so there is no misunderstanding ~ I am not saying Sony & Ninty know EXACTLY what has been "sold" or "sold through" as not EVERY company has or uses the technology but the majority of the places that make the majority of the sales (Bestbuy, Gamestop, Target, Walmart, Toys R Us, Amazon and so on) can provide this information.

How could/would their own business run otherwise if they can't track precisely what they have sold? It doesn't make any sense to "believe" they can't do this. ANYONE who has worked in a retail POS setting can tell you if a customer walks in and says they want "Item Z" they can INSTANTLY check stock...thus this information is readily available to the home offices of a great number of retailers.

PERIOD.

Edit: Just in case for the misinformed ~

http://www.informationweek....

http://www.checkbox.com/blo...

http://www.salesforce.com/a...

Ilikegames765204d ago

on the 360 fans, as logic and fact are non-existent with them. To them fact is what MS tells them.
+bubble to you for the enlightenment.

soxfan20055204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

You were trying to make it seem as if MS has a different way of counting sales than Sony and Nintendo do. Both MS and Nintendo released sales numbers today, and they both are reported EXACTLY the same way - "shipped", otherwise known as "sold to retailers.

Why would Nintendo choose to report todays numbers as "sold to retailers" if they really had an accurate count of how many were actually purchased by consumers?

I posted a link (1.25) to today's Nintendo report that contradicts what you said in your 1.12 post. That's why you lose bubbles - for posting untrue information with the intent of making one company look bad.

Edit - read the Nintendo report. It's clear as day. The phrase "shipped to reatilers" is used numerous times. That's the truth. It's very easy to understand, regardless what "type of gamer" you are.

I don't doubt that the technology exists to track individual sales. But the fact that Nintendo, the far-and-away market leader and biggest video game company EVER (multi-billion$$ as you say), chooses to use "shipped to retailers" speaks volumes about which method is more reliable in the industry.

Oner5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

WRONG.

I don't lose bubbles for posting untrue information. I lose bubbles because I speak the truth that "certain types of gamers" don't want to hear, contemplate, understand or reason with the use of plain old COMMON SENSE.

Just because a company MAY use sold to retailer in a press release does not limit them from EVER again using real time data that is available to them. Especially in these economic times a company NEEDS this sort of data to survive. Remember they are MULTI-BILLION dollar companies and they didn't get there by "guessing"...

5204d ago
krouse935204d ago

I have never seen a marketing department spew out such BS every quarter. Just to make them look better to investors really. Such a scummy company.

commodore645204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

Oh boy.

Oner certainly is carrying the flag for Sony today!

It stands to reason that Sony do only report shipped/sold to retailers as their sales number, despite the repeated and oft misquoted claims to the contrary.

One merely needs to ponder the additional cost that Sony would incur by asking each individual retailer to report sellthroughs.

Would retailers do this out of the goodness of their heart?
No, of course not, they'd charge Sony a fee for doing so.

We need to consider that the ps3 is already 4.7bn in the red and SOny is reputedly losing an additional $33 per console sold.

Sony is proactively REDUCING all PS3 related costs so as to finally show a ps3 profit. In fact, thousands of people were made redundant at Sony, last year, as a perfect case in point!

NOW.... ask yourself... why would Sony WILLINGLY spend additional resources on collecting 'sold at retail' numbers, which serve no useful benefit except to the ps3 fanboys on n4g?

Why would Sony incur this seemingly totally unnecessary expense which neither MS nor Nintendo seem to think is necessary?
It's ludicrous and illogical.

Unless, of course, it's all a lie and Sony does in fact report 'sold to retailers' like the other two.

That, it seems, would make a lot more sense.

Perkel5204d ago

@ commodore64

lol ... where were you 2-3 years ago ? Sony and Nintendo released press note and you still think that's a lie.

Sold to customer is number for shareholders not for n4g fanboys. If you are shareholder you are more interested in actual sold to customer number than shipped.

Also shipped =/= sold to retailers. It's number with numbers from stores, magazines, not just retailers.

If you read SONY official finanse document every quarter you see there not shipped but sold and number aprox. because they can't say 23324234252 consoles sold.

this is diffrence :) if you don't see it you are a fanboy.

thewhoopimen5204d ago

Sorry you had to bear the brunt on ignorance. I got disagrees for posting fact as well .. directly from the article. That's how inane some of these xbox fankids are. MS took cost cut 33% of their budget to make their numbers this quarter. Those are short term methods to boost dollar amounts.

@vegas75 You point one article showing sell-through from Nintendo and that becomes undeniable fact? How sad that Oner pulls 4+ articles citing otherwise. Where do you think I as the uniniated would stand? Could it be possible that Nintendo could have BOTH sell through AND sell in numbers? The real question is where is MS clarification on their methodology? Why is it always so dodgy to the consumer? How is it that Sony and Nintendo, both halfway across the world where their primary language and practices in 日本語 still have clearer accounting practices than MS?

Bzone245204d ago

It's really hilarious that fanboys in the sony camp really thinks that sony is magically wired in to every retail shop in the world that sells their products to get the sold to customer numbers. NPD would not be neccessary if that was the case.

Sold == Shipped.

Consoldtobots5204d ago

many of us have already explained this MANY times. We live in an age where I can use satellite tracking to FIND MY LOST PHONE and know EXACTLY where it is and somehow these dumb fanboys want everyone to think theres black magic to counting sold to consumer.

We allll know why don't we, it reveals the truth, MS and the 360 are losing their one year lead FAST.

Foliage5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

"It's really hilarious that fanboys in the sony camp really thinks that sony is magically wired in to every retail shop in the world"

It's called the internet you moron. It isn't "magic".

You are so naive to believe that a company doesn't know how many units they have sold? How else would they know whether to restock?

There is this magical thing that every retail company does called "inventory", and there is also a magical device called a "barcode scanner". You scan a "barcode", the computer takes a unit off your total stock, this figure is sent to the distributor for that region, which in turn sends it to the product manufacturer.... it's not really that hard to understand is it?

I worked for a video game Publisher the last 3 years. We knew exactly how many games we had sold-through at any given time. It's 2010, not 1950. If your investors do not know how many products you have sold, that happens to be a little thing called "fraud".

No one is claiming that Microsoft isn't capable of accessing the internet (well, unless they are using a 360). Sony and Nintendo CHOOSE to reveal their correct "sold to customer" figures. Microsoft on the other hand CHOOSE to reveal their shipped to retail numbers. They are hiding their stagnant sales numbers, and you guys are the only ones dumb enough to fall for it.

And really geniuses... how do you figure NPD does it? Magic?

MiloGarret5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

I think Oner, and those supporting him are 13-15 years old. Tops.

EDIT: Oh, and just to be fair, those of you arguing against this blatantly rabid fanboy... are morons, shame on you!

MORGiON5204d ago

Have any of you clowns who think Sony cannot know it's sold to customer numbers ever worked in retail (other than a box boy or some idiot job). retailers (especially large chains) provide suppliers with extensive sales (some retailers even make the suppliers pay for this data, and yes they pay)

Guido5203d ago (Edited 5203d ago )

And on another note, Oner, you are wasting your time. Trying to educate the Xbox fanboys around here is like tossing pearls to the swine my friend. I have tried it and failed to break through so trust me when I say don't waste your time.

With that in mind, I see what you are saying and trust your facts. Kudos for shedding light and proving that once again, MS is the SPIN KING.

And to this comment:

"It's really hilarious that fanboys in the sony camp really thinks that sony is magically wired in to every retail shop in the world that sells their products to get the sold to customer numbers. NPD would not be neccessary if that was the case."

The NPD is for investment purposes and not for corporate heads. It helps us, the investors to make sense of the business on a month to month basis since the corporations only hand out quarterly reviews.

Let me make this as clear as I can for you little Xbox fanboys out there. The NPD does not tell Sony, MS, or Nintendo how many consoles they have sold. The big three know these figures already and not always, if ever do the two numbers from both the corporation and NPD match up at the time of the quarterly release. Don't be stupid...

ReBurn5203d ago (Edited 5203d ago )

Um, they don't know to restock by proactively checking inventory at retailers. They know to restock based on orders from retailers. Retailers decide what makes it into their supply chain unless demand is higher than supply, which isn't the case for consoles right now.

What probably happens is that they extrapolate the sell-through rate based on the number of orders they receive from retail and the previous numbers shipped to retail. And it is probably pretty close to accurate, because retailers don't want to carry more stock than they can sell.

For instance, say Target typically likes to keep 50,000 PS3 units on hand to make sure that their stores are adequately stocked with 3 units each with more in the distribution center to replenish from. That's probably not the real number, but go with me. If Target orders 20,000 units of PS3 for March delivery, then Sony feels it safe to say that Target will have sold through 20,000 units by March. There's no way to know precisely how many sold through, but you can wager a pretty close guess within a couple of percentage points.

mint royale5203d ago (Edited 5203d ago )

@oner

why have you just gone into overdrive attacking MS again. The article had nothing to do with that pointless debate.

As for your example of MS claiming they estimated to consumers and this was the only time they have supposedly cliamed this - I have already explained this to you. Any compnay can estimate sold to consumers and in your link that is what MS did. Theres no need to go into a whole conspiracy theory because it doesn't fit your logic. Sony estimated sold to consumers as well in that link. No problem there?

HOWEVER. The thing you do not quite grasp is that in FINANCIAL REPORTS which remember are not meant for us, but for sharholders, and thus have to be 100% relevant and accurate, all sales from all companies are to retailers. It is the retailers that pay them the money and it is the money recieved that shareholders care about.

I must admit it is quite funny how you can spread this crap and actually believe what you say. I can understand people getting confused by numbers from companies PR departments that are purposely misleading without being completely untrue but you take it to a new level.

@Maxx below

There is the problem. If you are a shareholder you do not care how many are in consumers hands but rather the sales and revenue of the company. Sony have never said they report to CONSUMERS in their FINANCIAL QUARTERLY REPORTS. This is where people like oner get mixed up beciase they can and do report estimations of sold to consumers for random bits of sales info - eg. 'we sold 10 million in Europe.'

Alot of confusion as well has come from when Sony stated they had changed the way they reported sales figures in their financial reports. However if you reserached this thing before 2005 you would know that Sony reported shipped to their own warehouses figures. There was nothing wrong with this but shareholders wanted more accurate info so asked Sony to report sold to retailers (SOLD). This did not mean consumers and you won't find the word consumers mentioned but many people understandably got confused. There is no way sony would disadvantage themselves competitively to give lower figures. Sold to retailers, shipped to retailers - its the same thing and the big 3 all do it.

EDIT 2:
The title is wrong, MS have not reached 39 million sold to retailers but 38.7 million.

The Maxx5203d ago (Edited 5203d ago )

Ok there are some interresting points from both parties here.

1. If it was so easy for a company to track each unit sold to the public, then why is it MS and Nintendo don't use this method and only Sony does? I am sure each MS and Nintendo have the resources to implement this if they haven't already?

2. Shareholders don't give a crap about how many units are sold to the public. It is the overall revenue attained from that devision that matters. Investors and share holders care about the bottom line, NOT how many were sold. Ala ME. I have stocks in both MS and Sony and overall units sold to customers is irrelevant. The revenue earned from units shipped is what puts money in MS's and Sony's pocket which in turn puts it in mine.

Whatever the case is, MS and Nintendo are using shipped units as their scale. If Sony is using sold to customers than that is their propagative, however their numbers will always be lower when discussing topics like these and until MS and Nintendo release actual sold to customer numbers we will never know how close the sold to customers and shipped numbers are to each other. They could be off by 1 million or 6 million, we will never know.

vhero5203d ago

Man some people gotta know the difference between shipped and sold. This is just another way of making MS look better than they really are. They still sold well though but PS3 still outsold them worldwide in December quarter.

Oner5203d ago (Edited 5203d ago )

I think I have made my point very clear and supported it with information that shows sales can be tracked even in real time. If anyone doesn't want to believe it or think it's not possible, then go right ahead and be blind with ignorance & stupidity...because it seems that's what you do best. But lest you forget we ACTUALLY live in a digital age and the technology is here and now and is key to BIG business. It's not magic nor voodoo. Just simply ~ 1's & 0's.

Lastly I wanted to add how I find it amazing that when people don't have a valid point they ALWAYS resort to attacking the poster and not the post itself! And at that point you lose all sight of the point and any bearing of validity. So ASSume all you want about my age without ANY bit of evidence or information to come to such a conclusion. But what that confirms to me is that you are clearly immature (no matter your true age) to actually believe the BS statements you so dearly profess.

And on that note since this is my last bubble ~ Thank You, to all who are reasonable and educated enough to understand my point correctly. Your support and PM's are greatly appreciated.

Edit: @ Mint you actually have a good point (never said you didn't) but you won't let go of the fact that this data is available and possible...and again just because a company might use "sell in" for "this or that" does not mean they don't use or have access to "sell through". To think otherwise is ignorant.

Bzone245203d ago

"It's called the internet you moron. It isn't "magic".

You are so naive to believe that a company doesn't know how many units they have sold? How else would they know whether to restock?"

So every company lists their products on the internet? Every company gives sony access to this info?

"There is this magical thing that every retail company does called "inventory", and there is also a magical device called a "barcode scanner". You scan a "barcode", the computer takes a unit off your total stock, this figure is sent to the distributor for that region, which in turn sends it to the product manufacturer.... it's not really that hard to understand is it? "

Once again, all companies just give sony open access to this info?

"I worked for a video game Publisher the last 3 years. We knew exactly how many games we had sold-through at any given time. It's 2010, not 1950. If your investors do not know how many products you have sold, that happens to be a little thing called "fraud"."

You knew how many games you sold right, but not sold directly to the consumer. You got the numbers that sold to distributors and such.

"And really geniuses... how do you figure NPD does it? Magic?"
NPD get's a sampling of numbers from select retailers, kinda like Nielson does for television ratings, to figure out how many was sold. Numbers aren't exact, but the best available to show the sold to retail numbers. Especially since sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all report shipped numbers. No matter how they word it.

cmrbe5203d ago

you x360 fans believes that MS can track sold numbers of Halo 3 to customers in 1 day and yet Sony can't with their PS3 sales to consumers.

Sony has been in the electonics bussiness a hack alot longer than MS. There is no reason to doubt their ability to track unit sales to consumers like they have said.

Cryos5203d ago

Let me just say this... I worked retail just 2 years ago, with a system that was ANCIENT by any big box store's standards, and I could track our stores inventory, what new shipment was coming in, when it was coming in, and the inventory of every other store in the district. Using that data, it's fairly easy to figure "sold through" numbers. Most large national retailers would have this done automatically.

I think those that are dismissing oner's argument are missing the main point. THIS DATA IS AVAILABLE TO MS AND NINTY AND SONY and all other manufacturers. How is it possible that these companies get it? Aside from the obvious that in order to get wholesale prices it could be mandated, it's also possible to get when order information comes through.

The REAL question is why don't they all use sold-through. The answer is pretty simple. It inflates the numbers of the company that doesn't. If sony and MS each have 5 million units sitting on the shelves of stores, and one company counts them and the other doesn't, that's a huge shift for one company (by PR standards)

+ Show (51) more repliesLast reply 5203d ago
MetalGearRising5204d ago

Well done Microsoft 39 million xbox360 consoles sold so far. That's 39 million happy xbox360 owners and growing the PUBLIC have spoken and chosen your console as their Number 1 console of choice with such astounding AAA games coming out this year and Natal i wouldn't be surprised if u surpass the wii.

ATi_Elite5204d ago

how is the xbox360 with 39 million units sold number one when Nintendo has sold over 70 million Wii's?

4th quarter 2009 which is September October November December, 4 months.
The Pc sold over 80 million units.

The 360 has lost steam because Sony will report they sold 6 million PS3's and only trails the X360 in America. The PS3 has outsold the x360 worldwide. Just 5 million more to go to past the x360 in America.

I will easily bet the PS3 passes the X360 before the X360 gets with in 10 million units of the Wii.

EvilBlackCat5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

yup Wii is the one that rule them all this gen.

65 Million Wii Units Sold. Can U Dig iT!!!???

@ Krayzie Bone

Dude put your fanaticism away please. Consider this Xmas 2010

Do you really believe that PS3 can win this Holiday's?

Of Course you will... yeah of course.

@ kenpachi on 2.1

"Microsoft cant keep relying on Halo and GeOW to save them"

Dude Halo and GeoW are not the only games on Xbox360 and you know this. But hey none of the so hype games on PS3 make me buy a PS3.

Guess which one make me get a PS3

"Gamers follow games and not consoles" - EvilBlackCat

Well... you dont wanna ask so here it goes

Ninja Gaiden Sigma 1 & 2

Yeah call me a Xbox360 fan only B!tches

NO GoW3, No KZ2, No GT5, No Heavy Rain, None of your hyped games... etc.

W831SOLIDSNAKE5204d ago

Don't forget to subtract 33+% from that number ok. Besides the PS3 has been selling faster since launch at a higher price therefore the public has spoken......They prefer quality. The only reason crapbox has a high number is because of people buying more then one after the other breaks. So therefore the real Number would be finding out how many still work....that would show something surprising....the BreakBox well BREAKS HAHAHAHAHA

Dumb Bot

Pistolero5204d ago

Not true...the 360 has the same 6 million lead over the ps3 as it did when the ps3 launched...the ps3 hasn't closed the gap at all.

II-Reaper-II5204d ago

Its really sad that a company has to overstate its hardware install base just because they know that another certain company right in their rear view mirror.PS3 should be no more than 4 million behind the 360 if that.So if 360 has supposedly 39million then PS3 has 35 to 36 million

Wrathman5204d ago

it must really give the ps3fanboys on here total butt hurt when they read these articles every month.despite them owning 2 ps3's.one fat and 1 slim.both with multiple accounts.sony just can not close the gap.or shift software.just blu-rays.

oh that reminds me.i gotta dust my ps3 and charge the controller.im gonna rent a blu-ray tomorrow nite.

LMAO

heroprotagonist5204d ago

"PS3 has 35 to 36 million"

Where did you pull that number from? Oh wait, don't tell me, I don't want to know.

How in the world do you think they would be at 35 or 36 million based on the last numbers they gave us? Did they suddenly sell a couple million that nobody knew about?

Be real, the 360 has about a 6 or 7 million console lead over the PS3 right now.

II-Reaper-II5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

Hey Hero here some facts for u.PS3 is ahead in europe by about a quarter million and growing ,the PS3 is ahead in japan by about 4million units and growing.Now according to Xbot site Vgchartz the 360 is ahead by about 8.0 to 8.5 million in america.If u offset that u have a 4.25million lead.This is not even counting the rrod and banned rebuys.

Ilikegames765204d ago

bots don't know how to count. MGR is too young for Sesame Street.

II-Reaper-II5204d ago

360 has about 20million in USA about 14 million in Europe and about 15units in Japan.Now they didnt teach me Microsoft math in in school,but how the Fvk can they say 39 million.

Wrathman5204d ago

my spider senses tell me 'droid butt hurt'

LMAO

damage control in full swing here.

bbbb bu but the blu-ray. lmao!!!

Ilikegames765204d ago

you always saying butt hurt. For all I know, you don't have spider sense, heck you don't even have common sense. Your butt hole might be the one tingling from all the rape MS did to you.

The_Beast5204d ago

Shipped=not how how many sold

awesomeperson5204d ago

Ahh wrathman, please only say LMAO! if its funny, I do not see the point of saying "I have to charge my fake PS3's controller since I'm watching a movie tonight LMAO" if that is not in the bit funiest. Firstly all self respecting movie enthusiasts own the movie controller, I do not.

Also to the guy saying everyone has a fat and slim PS3, grow up. Do you have every model of the 360? Well you probably have due to RROD...

Without RROD and not so stealthy bannings of 1million people before a certain big launch, I can bet the ammount of units sold on the 360 would be smaller.

Not to mention Microsoft overinflate their sales figures, and come out with the exact same ones a few months later. It just tells me Microsoft are a company who is untruthful in every single way.

Sir_Ken_Kutaragi_5203d ago

MORE Micro$oft BS!!! ;-D 39 Million??? ;-D ;-D ;-D

azazin5203d ago

@MGR

Why didn't you comment when SCEE announced GTA IV Episodes for PS3? You dumb f*ck.

+ Show (15) more repliesLast reply 5203d ago
Omega45204d ago

How did their profits TRIPLE eventhough their sales slipped 0.o

Well done MS they are in some serious money

sack_boi5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

I'm guessing the X360 is dirt cheap to produce now and XLIVE is REALLY, really profitable for them.
Once the Valhalla X360 (Xbox-Natal maybe) is done, things are going to be even better for them.

techie5204d ago

They didn't have any big games to market either.

Plus...the games division isn't in any serious money. It's still down around $1.5 billion. Hopefully they'll make it profitable before this console cycle is out (though repairs may stop them from doing that)

Foxgod5204d ago

They probably brought down the manufacturing costs.
Thats, and they probably lost less money repairing RROD consoles, as RROD happens a lot less then it did a year ago.

gaffyh5204d ago

Most likely XBL and Modern Warfare 2 probably brought in quite a lot of royalties.

green5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

Halo 3:ODST's live action adds,Forza 3 and GTA4 liberty stories all had huge marketing campaings.What about the massive marketing campaign for the 360 sky player service that had them pay ITV huge amounts of money to take the premiere advertising slots for Xfactor (the UK's most watched TV show at the time).

Can you also imagine how much Microsoft must have paid Activision for exclusive advertising rights for Modern Warfare 2?Microsoft spent a truck load of money advertising during the last quarter of 09.

EDIT: And you got any links to show that the division is down 1.5 billion?Last time i checked RROD cost was absorbed by microsoft as a whole and whatever they lost from the XBOX it has obviously been wiped clean by the companys profits all together. http://www.n4g.com/industry...

thewhoopimen5204d ago (Edited 5204d ago )

If you read the article fully there's kind of a note about how MS's xbox division cut marketing budgets by $75 mill and saved $50 from layoffs... That's a good chunk of the "profit" pie. Money saved is money earned.

Addendum: The "real" growth is around $375-125= $250 , $250- 130 = $120 $120/$130 = 0.923 or about 92% up. Still nothing to scoff about, but certainly not that 188% painted in the article.

evrfighter5204d ago

must cost under a 100 bucks to manufacture a 360 nowadays. That makes all the difference in the world

BRG90005204d ago

Don't forget that consoles themselves are often sold at a loss, in order to get them in homes and profit later on games. So really, if console sales go down and game sales stay the same, profit will go up.

Of course, the consoles might be selling at a profit by this point in the generation too, it is hard to know. But it's one possible reason for the negative correlation.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 5204d ago
MetalGearRising5204d ago

I know it's only a matter of time when xbox360 is No.1 the wii has lost it's steam the games are crap and how many times can Nintendo keep relying on Mario or Zelda sooner or later milks gonna run dry.

kenpachi5204d ago

Microsoft cant keep relying on Halo and GeOW to save them

5204d ago
ryano232775204d ago

and that would be the smartest thing you've said MGR

xc7x5204d ago

passing up Wii,not likely,getting passed up by PS3,more likely.

RetroPietro5204d ago

lol you crack me up! xbox wont get to number 1, we all know its gunna end in 3rd place and wii looking steam?? it outsold everything at christmas?!

Pistolero5204d ago

Nah...the 360 will never catch the Wii...just like the ps3 will never catch the 360.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 5204d ago
Cyrus3655204d ago

Simple, Microsoft is making their money now on Xbox Live subs, and their accessories, which they pretty much have a monoply on, since they've banned 3rd party memory units for example.

Msoft in NPD reporting always has like top 6-7 accessories... This is where they making their money, on the 200 dollar 120 HDD, or the wireless stuff, that cost like 5 bucks.

Show all comments (179)
90°

7 Iconic Games That Put The PS1 On The Map

The first PlayStation is home to an array of iconic video games that went on to define the sheer significance of this console.

SimpleSlave19h ago

I think from a historical perspective I would change Spyro for Grand Turismo. It's the franchise that made the PS1 look like an absolute unit. Other than that, I can't argue with the rest when it comes to games that defined the PS1.

And to be honest, there should be space for Tekken 3, Wipepout and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater in order to round out the PS1 identity as the machine to own at the time.

With Tomb Raider 2, Silent Hill, Symphony of the Night, Tenchu, and Soul Reaver as backup contenders.

60°

Pacific Rim Pinball comes to Pinball FX

This could be fun as they make great tables. Go big or go extinct. Prime your senses for a neural handshake and step into the cockpit of a Jaeger. It is on you to cancel the apocalypse when Pacific Rim Pinball comes to Pinball FX on May 16.

290°

Microsoft’s Surface and Xbox hardware revenues take a big hit in Q3

Microsoft just posted the third quarter of its 2024 fiscal financial results. The software maker made $61.9 billion in revenue and a net income of $21.9 billion during Q3. Revenue is up 17 percent, and net income has increased by 20 percent.

Read Full Story >>
theverge.com
darthv723d ago

Xbox content + services up 62% while hardware down 31%... seems about right with the way they tout you don't need the hardware to play. People can play on their phones or smart tv or other means. I don't hardly play on my consoles directly since getting devices like the logitech g-cloud and ps portal. Which is to also say I have been playing more digital than physical because of these devices.

solideagle2d ago

you should apply in MS PR team buddy, I think you will do a great job in my humble opinion :)

Sonic18812d ago

I thought darthv72 and Obscure_Observer already work for Microsoft 🤔

dveio2d ago

MS: "Xbox services and content without AB up 1%, with AB up 62%. Hardware down 31%. In total a loss of 350 mill."

darthv72: "Seems about right."

MS: "Excuse m ..."

darthv72: "I don't hardly play on my consoles directly."

MS:

Lightning772d ago

What he said was facts. How he plays games is no concern of you. Don't get too mad about it.

Cacabunga2d ago

I can tell people like you are an absolute minority..

If service is up means their fans and fanboys accepted this model and subscribed to it. The near future you will see a big decline because the service is saturated.

darthv722d ago

to you it may seem like the minority... but your bubble is shrinking because more and more are following suit. convenience is a hell of a drug and its also why physical sales only amount to 30% of overall game sales. times are changing, you either get with them or you get left behind.

neutralgamer19921d 22h ago

Darth

30% physical sales: yet Phil and xbox division are in a rush go give up on that 30%. they don't have any right to give up any piece of the pie since the control such a little of the pie to begin with

also, the market is clearly speaking that the model Xbox is pushing isn't working right now the keyword being right now. you are right about freedom to play anywhere so i hope they put their games on steam

shinoff21832d ago

But that's been ms for years. When things aren't going their way they try to change the way things are said. For instance console sales are down, they stop telling how many sold instead telling us how many hours spent in halo or headshots. So it makes sense console sales down just say people are playing on more devices then previous. What they won't say is how many xbox players jumped ship to ps5.

Cacabunga2d ago

Hardware sales are so bad that Sony and Nintendo are blowing the sales off the water with their hardware.

If Xbox are losers, others aren’t..
Xbox already tried everything with Xbox live then subscriptions went down so much that they had to find something else. Their fans subscribed then reached saturation rather quickly.

Hardware and exclusive games is where it’s at! Keep gamers excited, announce decent software and people will support you

itsmebryan2d ago

@shin
Well keep it simple Sony 's operating income is down 26% and Microsoft's is up 32%. No MS spin there, just facts. 😉
Cheers

S2Killinit2d ago

MS is after diminishing consoles as a medium. They want to destroy this market because they couldnt win. MS’s vision is to dissolve console gaming.

romulus232d ago

Odd that a company that touts you dont need the hardware to play is already touting another console in the works.

darthv722d ago

They are not reliant on the HW but still want to maintain a presence (no matter how small) is a good thing. It shows commitment to the craft. It reminds me of SNK and how they made games for their own hardware (Neo Geo) while also making them for others because they knew there was a market to do so. They knew they would sell more to others but also sell to their own niche fan base.

TheEroica2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Perfectly reasonable post down voted by insecure corporation friendly folk.... But not gamers. Real gamer want accessibility and ease of acquisition for all.... Company shills are the only ones still telling us that hardware locking people from games is good for us.

Chevalier1d 22h ago

@Darth

You should stop parroting metrics like an idiot without context.

"Xbox content and services revenue grew 62% in Q3 from a year earlier, “driven by 61 points of net impact” from the purchase of the third-party video game giant, Microsoft said."

61 of the 62% was from their merger so net increase is ONLY 1%

https://www.mesaonline.org/...

itsmebryan1d 13h ago

@chevalier

It looks like made a great purchase. Much better then Sony buying Bungie. 😉
Cheers

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1d 13h ago
purple1012d ago

Xbox hardware revenue tanks to lowest point of Xbox Series generation

Profchaos2d ago

I'm not surprised surface is struggling they aren't relevant anymore

DOMination-2d ago

In the last two years they've started exiting the consumer market altogether. All of the newest Surface products are business models only. They can't seem to work out what they want to do with it.

XBManiac2d ago

Too expensive hardware when others offer the same or more for less? Good work, Green Team.

SimpleDad2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

"Despite some early successes for Xbox games on rival platforms, Xbox hardware is down by a massive 31 percent this quarter."
"Without Activision Blizzard, Microsoft’s overall gaming revenue would have actually declined this quarter."
"Xbox content and services would have only been up a single percent without Activision Blizzard..."
"It looks like next quarter is going to be a similar story for gaming at Microsoft, too."

That is crazy... so A/B/K is carrying the whole Xbox gaming.
Oh and Microsoft will be fine. Windows, Office and Cloud are growing with each pc purchase.

purple1012d ago

Activision: "we gonna need a bigger rucksack/backpack please"

Microsoft: "why's that"

Activision: "to carry yo' weak ass'

Profchaos2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Top brass have also wanted to start seeing returns on the 100 billion they have put into various Xbox related moves so seeing more multiplatform games is highly likely especially from abk

It's basically saying that PlayStation is the reason Xbox is afloat right now thinks to Ps5 versions of COD

Kornholic2d ago

So basically PS and PC gamers' money is keeping Xbox on life support.

MrDead2d ago

The only growth MS will get out of the console industry is if it supports it's rivals platforms. Xbox is a pointless machine now. I can see them on a big push for live next, and they won't give up on trying to buy Steam.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2d ago
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