HD-DVD Buyers Beware

HD-DVD is not going to win this format war. In fact, one of two things is possible right now: Either Blu-ray will win, or neither format will win. But the best HD-DVD can hope for is to just keep hanging in the game as long as possible.

[frostbite06]

The only thing you should beware of is this awful article on how some guy likes blu-ray and doesnt like that this other guy likes hd-dvd

[reaperxciv]

just ask WALMART...they are coming out with their own WALMART HDDVD drive

[Arkham]

Are you serious? Did you read the entire article? Do you know anything about thedigitalbits.com?

While I was prepared to be a bit critical of this news item (at first it sounded only like more scaremongering), I read the article and was suitably impressed with their thoroughness. I would suggest you take a step back and try again. There's more fact than opinion in there, which is probably what's upset some of the people below.

These guys aren't just a bunch of fanboys blowing smoke out of their collective butt. Whether or not you agree with their *recommendation*, they do know what they're talking about.

[Numark]

It is a fact HD-DVD has no chance of winning this war?

[Arkham]

I said the article had more facts in it than opinion, I didn't say it was the freakin' gospel.

Geezus, media literacy and reading comprehension truly suffer when you throw a keyboard and monitor into the fray.

[jesterlives]

If HDDVD is going to lose, why has BuenaVista decided to start making HDDVD and Bluray movies? Digibits left that piece of information out.

[MADGameR]

Looks like it was written by a PS3 fanboy

[xbox360migs]

Which you would expect from a biased point of view. I hope that people who have certain older Blu-ray stand-alones know they are screwed when it come to accessing interactive features on upcoming blu-ray discs because of the lack of standardization from the release of blu-ray, thats what happens when you bypass the dvd forum that is there to stop this sort of thing from happening and therefore protecting the consumer!
HD DVD did not let this happen.

[FadedDRFT]

Oh. here we go again. lol

[Firewire]

this war was over the day the PS3 came out! and I mean over!

[FadedDRFT]

.

[MadMax]

Yea, over for the PS3 lol. Nobody wants one of those overpriced worthless machines, no games. Absolutely no reason to blow $600 on that bulky piece of overhyped junk. HD is cheaper and more people will buy an HD player because of the price, not to mention there is no difference between the 2 in picture quality you moron. HD movies are even coming down in price and HD cable is dominating. Do the math people, HD aint going nowhere and either is DVD! PS3 can suck it!

[Keyser]

Madmax is...very mad.

I'm not sure who is going to win but I have a good idea. One side has more studio support and more players out there (PS3's).

Christmas is coming and parents are not going to have a problem dropping $30 on a bluray whatsoever. The price of bluray discs will probably fall a bit more also this Christmas because of stores trying to get people in.

Christmas and Black Friday are going to tell a lot.

[eLiNeS]

Look down the list for people with one bubble, they have all the answers. :S

Personally I don't know who will win and I won't support either until it has been decided. I won't be buying a PS3 anytime soon since there are no games that interest me yet and if some games do come out that interest me, they will most likely be coming out on the 360 as well, so from the looks of it, I might never get a PS3. OK, time to get my game on.

[sak500]

" - this war was over the day the PS3 came out! and I mean over! "

If thats the case then, the next gen console was over teh day xbox360 came out.

[achira]

ppl who buy hd-dvd have a problem. blu-ray will win, thats for sure.

[Lyberator]

No one is going to win you dipshits. HD-DVD and Blu-ray still only own freakin 2% of the market. By the time either one "wins" (when dvd is out of the picture) through the pipe movies will be all over the place. Look at how successful the video marketplace on the 360 is. Also, I love how everyone turns this into a console debate. Who the hell cares. How many stand alone players does everyone here own. Those are the people I want to hear from. Not the losers who buy thier consoles for movies instead of games.

[nice_cuppa]

i have 8 hd-dvd movies.

im on the losing team then am i ?

there is nothing wrong with blu-ray disc's.
its the monopoly sony have on the format that puts me of.
i want cheap movies.
and if there is no competition that wont happen.

this is what sony keeps trying to do.
establish a format and claim royaltys.

below.
dvd, vhs isnt sony...thank god.
but they keep trying...mini disc, bata max, memory stick, umd ect....

if sony win they get a cut, this keeps the price up.

[fenderputty]

you pay on average 10$ more for HD-DVD then blu-ray?

Either way ... it's not like you're going to loose. You're always going to have what you bought and, if you're forced to by something else, it won't be for a while. By that time price shouldn't be as big of an issue.

[THE_JUDGE]

Like with DVD now or VHS back then? You make no sense, Sony doesn't own every blu-ray disc made. Get real! Blu-ray has more movies and backers so it will win. In 5 years time the blu-ray movies will cost the same as a dvd. Stop worrying!

[ITR]

I hope you guys realize the main reason studios went HD/BD was because they wanted more money per DVD sale.

Currently if you sale at MSRP a retailer might make $3-5 bucks off a DVD sale.
If you price match with Best Buy then you might make a $1 per DVD sale.

If you price match against Wal-Mart you'll probably lose about a $1 per DVD sale.

Both HD and BD had to promise to keep the prices high for a certain amount of time before it gets to the point of DVD's today. I doubt 5 yrs was in that contract..probably more like 8-10 yrs.

----------------------------- ------------------------------- -------------
Most HD-DVD's are hybrid discs now so thats the reason for the price difference.
It's like buying a std DVD and HD-DVD on one disc.
BD should follow suit.

[Marriot VP]

We'll know this Christmas. Anybody buying in before than is taking a risk. Anyways, price is always the deciding factor. I'm not even choosing anything right now, there's no need to when I get all my DVDs upscaled to HD.

$300 - Samsung HD-A2 HD-DVD
$600 - PS3 or BR player

[Birdman18]

Just to clarify, Blu Ray can NOT make BD/DVD disks because when Sony went about making their format, they intentionally went around the DVD Forum. which might i add, was made to stop format wars like this from happening. so thats why its call Blu Ray DISK...not, Blu Ray DVD.. Toshiba took their format to the DVD forum and had them approve their format first. hence why its call HD DVD...

[MoonDust]

My IQ just dropped a little.

[WilliamRLBaker]

my brain! my brain! AHHHHHHH basically.

[ngg12345]

??

[WilliamRLBaker]

see the lil links? click one and it gives you the option....

[nice_cuppa]

press it,

[Expy]

Very good read.

The war is pretty much over, but some people jsut don't know when to back out, like in Vietnam for instance.

[FadedDRFT]

BUT who has won, I would say blu-ray, but HD DVD sales are on the up too.....

[WilliamRLBaker]

based upon what? that blu ray is each month only outselling hd dvd by like 5k-10k units?

Or that hd dvd stand alone players sell more then blu ray stand alone players?

Or because blu rays media sales only went up because the ps3 buyers had no games to play so had to get some thing to justify the 600 dollar purchase?

The war is far from over.

[THE_JUDGE]

I have plenty of games to play and I have bought movies too! There are games to play a plenty and stop comparing games and movies. They are both media but you don't say that about cd's. Look everyone cd's are selling more to be played on the ps3 so that means it doesn't have any games or movies anymore. Thats a stupid conclusion.

[cookiemonster]

who is approving these god-awful articles?

[MikeJonesOK]

It is kind of bias, but good read nevertheless.

[Mr Playboy]

I dont care but I think blu-ray will win this war

[FadedDRFT]

.

[nice_cuppa]

are you moving into the high definition television era ?

then hd-dvd is for you.

your favorite movies now in hd.

welcome to high definition.

[spacetoilet]

This is hard to read. Like a bible.

I have a question for any 1080p tv owners on N4g. How good is an upscaled DVD movie, compared to a movie filmed in 1080p and viewed in 1080p?
Surely it's not as good? I tried viewing a dvd on my pc monitor. I had it upscaled to 720p and I could not tell the difference.(from regular DVD)
Maybe this is because my monitor's native resolution is 1680x1050? So it was 'zoomed in'?

[MikeJonesOK]

Only titles I will have in both DVD and Blu-Ray will be "Coming to America." Still, DVD upscale is nothing like true HD. It gives a good picture, but not nearly as good as HD. Especially, with a 50+ screen.

[drtysouf21]

upscaled is nicer then standard 480p or 480i but 1080p still blows it away. I've compared this on the PS3 upscaling vs a Blu-ray disc and also on the HD-DVD add on for the xbox 360 which comes in at 1080i on my tv. I also own a phillips 1080p upscaling Dvd Player and its still no where near as good as Blu-ray and HD-Dvd. But you also have to consider the size of the TV i have a 65in 1080p so i can tell there is a big difference but on smaller tv's it may be less noticeable.

[omansteveo]

No Movies are filmed in 1080p

[MikeJonesOK]

^^^WTH YOU ON PCP?^^^

[ITR]

Most big time film makers use Panavision camera systems.
Most film makers still use the old 35mm and 16mm Panavision camera system.
These films are not 1080p.

Panavision HD 900F camera is HD somewhere between 720p-1080p.
It was used in Attack of the Clones. GL used a Sony Plus8Digital in the Revenge of the Sith.
HD 900F also shot:
DEBS and SpyKids 2

Panavision Genesis camera sys shoots just under 2k for a 1080p feature film.
Genesis movies:
Superman Returns (first to use the new camera sys)
Flyboys
Click
Apocalypto
Scary Movie 4
Grind House
Deja Vu

1080p film making is still not widespread because it's still cheaper to film using the old tried and true and then film the CGI scenes with a RED 4k camera sys. rental or Genesis 2k rental.

[grifter024]

Wow do you know what your talking about? First if and I stress IF you have a good up conversion dvd player then you wont really see a difference. Philips makes a crappy upconversion player always stuttering and stopping so the player can buffer the images. If your going to get a upconversion player then get an OPPO upconversion dvd player. The best upconversion player out there. Saying you used the PS3's upconversion player or Xbox360's upconversion abilities or using a walmart brand is ridiculous to say the least. I already tried a comparison and side by side if you calibrated your tv correctly(since not a lot of people do) then you wont really see a difference, the only time is when your sitting real close on the BR/HDDVD you wont see a lot of pixilation while on the upconverted you tend to see them. Good job trying to know what your talking about,

HD-DVD is selling pretty good I dont hear a drought of movies coming anytime soon so I'm suppose to be scared? If it losses what do my HD-DVD's dissapear or what? No I will still watch them I mean there Hight Def movies. Most of the movies out on BR are just popcorn flicks bang bang explosion explosion most of the movies are really boring and most people just watch them once. Br does have Disney/Pixar which I'm thinking will save them for a while. Plus "Christmas is coming" wow ya its coming but for how long? 6 months good job there buddy.

[tehcellownu]

The the 360 is awesome!!

Thanks for disagreeing!

[Mighty Boom]

This fanboy who wrote this artical is a biased doosh bag!

J

[macalatus]

The article has nothing even to do with video game partisanship, and yet you call the author a 'fanboy'? So, using your logic, anyone who disagrees on one particular subject (w/o using rhetoric) is automatically a fanboy?

Dude, please grow up or get out of your parents' basement for once.

[sonarus]

The bottom line is HD DVD is not winning. Thats what the guy was bringing out. Warner was exclusive they went neutral, Universal and porn the only one left and porn already switchin. If no one wins no one wins but there is no way HD-DVD wins. As more people buy high def tv sets, more ppl will buy high def players too its common sense. I don't feel this article was written by a biased fanboy just try to expand ur brain and see beyong your narrow view points

[Mighty Boom]

Your a fanboy.... Dooosh

[omansteveo]

Its hard to know for sure people will buy whats cheap ad gets the job done...the only reason this article is posted and were having this debate is bc of the ps3 if it was built in no-one would care and they would chalk it up as another Sony format that would eventually go sour.

As far as a war being over or soon-to-be your wrong as long as you go to the store and a a BLU-Ray/HD-DVD movies are 35 bucks you got another thing comin i mean seriously. This holiday will say alot. Sony should be wandering how the recent blu-player price drop is going to effect PS3 sales i know tons of people that bought pS3's bc it was the cheapest player.

I know bc i dont agree with this article im gonna get disagreed with flamed whatever the point is neither is a clear cut winner until DVD is out of the way. The title of this article should have both formats in it

[Skynetone]

HD-dvd cant compete against the ps3, its really quite simple

the only hope for hd-dvd is if they keep it alive and then include it in the next xbox/nintendo concole

but these format wars are annoying and i hope blu-ray crushes it
not because i own a ps3 but because i like simple standards what consumers will know

[nobizlikesnowbiz]

PS3 isn't really putting out all that great numbers in case anyone noticed.

HD DVD has a good chance of winning this thing. They're definatley the underdog though. Porn will have an impact on this race I beleive, and Sony's refusal to support porn won't help the BR camp.

[nobizlikesnowbiz]

Our narrow viewpoints? Did you read that article? He basically justified all of his claims that Blu-Ray would win on opinions. Then turned around and said it was wrong for the other guy to do the same. The dude who wrote this article is straight up retarded. I really feel slower after I read that one.

Total garbage- the format war is so far from over. Both sides have plenty of life left in them. BR is gay though I can't stand Sony's attempts to establish a monopoly.

EDIT: Maybe it would be bad for the consumer? Monopolies aren't usually good for people looking for a fairly priced product. Why do I get hated on for supporting HD DVD and not being a droid and accepting a format just because it on my console.

[MikeJonesOK]

When has Sony tried to become a monopoly? You talking about Big Money MarcoHard right? Sony tried to side along with Nintendo before they made the PS themselves. Sony sided along with Toshiba when it came to DVD. Just because they made a HD format own their own, they are trying to monopolizes the industry? Get the *#&$ out of here! Sony is not perfect, but they mostly provide very good products that people like myself like. I like the Xbox, but I like my PS a bit more. Bias? Yes. Gay fanboy? I rather be call a fanman thank you. BOO-YAAA

[VirtualGamer]

Whoever wins the format war will have a monopoly. Did Toshiba having a monopoly with DVD mean anything? Nope. I am curious why you don't want Sony to have a monopoly? Can you explain how Sony winning this time around would be bad? How would it be different then if Toshiba got the monopoly? Its one thing to make a statement like that and another to back it up with actual logic.

[macalatus]

Though I won't deny that Sony is trying to expand its business on many fronts as much as possible, I think your high on something if you believe that MS isn't on the same boat. Evidence? Why the hell do you think that MS entered the console business, despite their "near monopoly" (let me guess, you have a MS software in your computer, right?) control of PC home and office software. The answer? MS is also trying to gain a "near monopoly" control of the "other" computer business: Video games!

[FadeToBlack]

If you have purchased Blu-ray or HD-DVD movies you can still watch them on the player you have even if either of the format fails. To hear some people talk its like if the format is not successful the movies you own will expire and not be viewable anymore.

[Bill Gates]

Blu-ray > HD-DVD

Grade = A+ and a sticker star.

[Mighty Boom]

You understand the greater than sign!!! Give this man a GOLD STAR!!!

[gunnerforlife]

that was a long article, but the guy really had a point just look how the blue-ray is selling since the ps3 came out wat was it 58%blue-ray to 32%HD-DVD lol thats a huge gap give it another month and it will be 80 to 20 and i dont have a ps3 and i aint a sony fan boy i am just a guy that realises what true quality is.

[sticky doja]

58% + 32% = 90% ?

Where is the other 10%?
Just thought I'd point that out.

[Anything but Cute]

Experts who have seen them both say blu ray is much better quality, it delivers a better result. Blu ray has more movie studious supporting it. Why the hell would people want a lesser product to win? I want the format that delivers the best picture to win. That's it.

People talk crap about fanboys when they are the fanboys. I heard someone mention the XBOX 360 downloading service, WTF does that have anything to do with it? I don't know a lot about that but are they saying that everything will be saved on hard drive instead of renting discs? How much hard drive space do you need to have all your movie collection? I think that's f**ken stupid, I don't see that anytime soon.

[Lumbo]

actually both deliver the same result, picture wise. The only difference might be the lossless "true-HD" audio tracks that are on some of the BluRay releases, but as no affordable AV Receiver yet supports the format this is rather a mood point.

That more studios support BluRay is only a political decision by the studios, cause frankly NO ONE in the industry likes Toshiba and their DVD monopoly on current gen.

I decided based on the movies i wanted, and as i wanted Casino Royal the decision for a PS3 as player was a fast one.

[razer]

HD-DVD has the better picture quality with the VC-1 codec and early BR movies look like crap compared to HD-DVD. But now BR has adopted the VC-1 codec and the quality is the same as HD-DVD. Even this article stated that.

I think the article brings up some great points. Blu-ray has the big advantage of studio support. As long as BR has the movies people want it will dominate.

But for me, I don't care who wins because digital media distribution is what I'm about. Who wants to have a couple hundred disc's taking up space? yuck..

For me: Digital Media Distribution > Blu-Ray > HD-DVD

[ITR]

Things I don't like about HD and BD.

At 1080p you notice things like when the film stock and camera changes..or when their is low light.
Inside the thing looks awesome but when the film maker uses a low light stock we get a grainy type back drop. In 480p you don't see this transition.

Most LCD HD TV's are still too slow for action sports viewing. You tend to see a slight white trail following a person in motion.(I noticed this in all the $2-3k models) Plasma is better in this respect, but isn't very reliable and tend to fail within 3 yrs on avg.

I'm currently looking at DLP...I just wish it had better color saturation like a plasma.

[ApocalypseShadow]

no beating around the bush.bluray is the better format.

it can use the same codecs.
it holds more content.
it is more supported.
it has more manufacturer support.
the price of movies is about the same.

where is the article wrong?microsoft wants to be one of the biggest media providers.but so does sony.so does apple.that's business.

sony relented previously,but now they have a better disc backed by more companies.and sales of bluray movies in less than a year is now outselling hd-dvd 2 to 1.sometimes 3 to 1.

he's right.it's either you hate sony or you bought the wrong product.

[calderra]

...or BluRay and DVD only own 2% of the market and this is a really stupid war that only hurts ALL consumers in the end.

And BluRay techniaclly CAN support the same formats, but it generally does not due to licensing and other odd issues, meaning HD-DVD is often superior in audio and video. As well as still being cheaper.

Many people bought HD-DVD because the player cost half the price, had movies they wanted, and said movies were also a few bucks cheaper. In general, you buy HD-DVD if you're a videophile or are concerned about your wallet.

[SKUD]

Just because you disagree with there VALID point's doesn't mean its total garbage. Great post.

[Maddens Raiders]

this is one of the best HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray articles I've read in some time. Whether you're in or out of the Hi-Def race, the format war has become more relevant now more than ever. With the HD TV sales moving along at a good clip and HD drive palyers dropping in prices by the second it seems, this is a good time to be in the market if you're so inclined. The one area that I took away from the article was:

-- "Simply put: If you're still not quite ready to get into high-def discs, then sit tight a little longer. The prices, selection and features of both hardware and software will all improve in the months ahead. On the other hand, if and when you ARE ready to get into high-def discs... we say Go Blu. It's really a no brainer, folks.

So yes... Blu-ray Disc is now officially the high-def format of choice for The Digital Bits. In the same way that we recommended everyone chose anamorphic widescreen DVDs over the alternative, we think you'll come to appreciate this advice in the months and years ahead as well.

To those of you who happen to disagree with us, favoring HD-DVD instead, more power to you and we respect your decision. We raise our glasses to you. (Skol, friends!)" --

Yeah, I can see where people would think this guy is some kind of Sony fanboy, but if you really take what he is saying at face value, he's just dissecting the facts and stats. I think SNE has a huge leg up with the PS3 trojan horse in this race, but as long as HD-DVD is out there lurking -- it just can't be counted out. Yet.

Cheers.

[macalatus]

As much as it pains me to be a PS3 owner, Sony have a really good chance of winning this format war, but at the cost of their biggest flagship product line: The PS brand

[gunnar2906]

BR wins cuz Sony owns big part of hollywood.
Sony, Pioneer, Philips, thompson, hitachi, panasonic,lg, samsung etc isnt going to produce HD-DVD playing thingys. Only toshiba, sanyo and OMG microsoft are for HD-DVD crap...
I cannot figure out why Americans say "overpriced" or "expensive" or "cannot afford it" for a $600? Here in Moscow even a 14-years old guy or gal can earn enuff money making photocopies in an office for 1-2 months without a problem.

[Ghost 0f 0nyx]

But I wonder if anybody has thought about the possibility that Sony deliberately pushed all the good games back for the PS3 so that it would increase the odds of Blu-ray winning? I'm not saying thats what I believe, just throwing the idea out there. I wondered since I have been buying all sorts of blu-ray movies to hold me over till MGS4. Agree/Disagree? If this is the case, then I think its a brilliant strategic plan.

[Why o why]

wouldn't that be an extremely dangerous tactic. That could of had the opposite effect. I love conspiracies. Elaborate

[jwatt]

That does help with BR sells but that might not be what they intended to do.

[badkolo]

HD DVD will win, HD DVD players are 299 and by xmas will be 199 and thats when blueray will lose and more companies will use hddvd, the cheapest blueray player is a ps3, thats not going to help.

[gunnar2906]

The Wal-Mart $299 HD DVD player .... 2 million HD DVD players produced by China's Great Wall corporation ...... The guts are developed by Taiwan's Fuh Yuan ...
Hey there in the USA ... does the word "quality" mean anything for you? Or you are going to use the chinese cheap crap?

[nobizlikesnowbiz]

Chinese and Taiwanese build quality is actually quite good.

[Boink]

lame article.

unless this idiot has somehow managed to find a crystal ball that works.

[Expy]

Just look at the companies supporting each format. I think that speaks for itself.

[badkolo]

that will change, if more people end up with the cheaper hddvd plaers then the movie companies will have no choice but to support it in the end.

[badkolo]

I just checked and hddvd players are 199 at some stores, blueray is still aove 600 bucks and your thinking its gonna win just becuase its on a ps3, get real. money talks and 199 is better then 600.

before a year hddvd will be at dvd prices for players and movies and blueray will still be 500 to 600 bucks.

[jwatt]

Well guess what, Hd-dvd has always been cheaper but it's still being out sold by Blu Ray. Hd-dvd has to keep cutiing it's price because that's all it can do.

[sak500]

last time i checked PS3 wasnt even selling well for a console, let alone as BR player. So what makes them think ps3 will make br successful?

[Arutha]

Bill Hunt has been pro Blu Ray for for awhile. The whole lets compare a Box set vs two stand alone movies in sales is complete BS(Pirates vs the Matrix collection/Ultimate). Lets face it a stand alone movie that sells for $25 should move more then a $75 dollar box set (avg between the two box sets) and with that box set you either like the second and hate the third movie, or hate both sequels. It is not a fair comparison really.

Here is the thing. Why can't both formats survive on their own? BR still does not have their BD-J stuff ready while HD DVD had their HDi activities since day 1. With this in mind Warner Brothers has been putting out movies for HD DVD with interactivity while holding off for BR to get their act together on it. If WB decides to go HD DVD exclusive then this format war is far from over.

Player wise the PS3 I still think is the best BR player on the market. It does everything and then some that the $1,000 player due and is a heck of a lot cheaper. HD DVD players are already cheap $299 and getting lower.

Picture Quality wise and Audio Quality I think they are both on Par. It all depends on the encoding. Each has particularly well done movies. All that we need now is cheaper movies.

I own both and glad I bought both. At worst if HD DVD fails I have a great up converting DVD player plus it will play all my HD DVD movies(Currently have 26) and if BR fails I have a PS3 that can play games. Either way I am happy. Personally I don't care who wins or who is in the lead, just put out movies for me to watch!

Edit:
Here is a great list of exclusive movies coming this summer for both formats. I may have to get a second job since this could get pretty expensive!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs...

[ITR]

What people fail to understand is when you buy the Matrix collection your getting 3 movies...not 1 or 2 but 3. If you bought the Ultimate one you also got the animatrix movie...for a total of 4 movies.

I currently like Apple's approach which is supporting both formats since the newest FCP allows you to edit projects for both Blu Ray and HD-DVD...and Leo is going to support both formats as well.

I'm still holding out on a HD TV set...maybe for another 12 months to see whats going to happen with the formats and for better LCD technology.

[badkolo]

me either i own a hddvd add-on and the ps3, so i couldnt care less, but facts are that if you look on yahoo shopping hddvd players are 199 and in 1 year they wll be as cheap as dvd players, blueray has only 1 cheap player and its called the ps3 at 600 bucks, without the ps3 blueray would fail, more studios support blueray becuase sony has that taking cared of, theya re movie juggernauts, but in the end if more hddvd players get sold and more movies are boiught and the cheaper price while blueray is still expensive the studios will give up and make movies on hddvd as well, its gonna happen soon.

[cmrbe]

The article is a bit biased but i like the fact that they backed up almost everything they said with links, weather they are true or not i don't know. I do agree very much though and i am sure most of you do that this format war is crazy and i hope it will be over soon so we could have a single format. For me personally i would prefer the Blue ray to win simply because form what i gathered is that the Blue ray is superior technically. I may be wrong but that seems to be the consensus from articles i read sofar.For those of you who don't like Sony or Microsoft. Please do understand that they are corporate companies who are in business to first and foremost to make profit.I don't really care if Sony or toshiba get royalties if either of their format wins but what i care about is they put out quality and innovative products which in Sony's case in my opinion have done for quite a long time. May the best valued format wins

[gunnar2906]

The Wal-Mart $299 HD DVD player .... 2 million HD DVD players produced by China's Great Wall corporation ...... The guts are developed by Taiwan's Fuh Yuan ...

no comments .....

[FadeToBlack]

The average Joe working class American could give a rats ass about where the player was assembled or where the parts come from. When they see the cheap price tag and say "Wow thats a great price i can afford this!", they will buy it vs the more expensive option. Why do you think they sell so many of those cheap brands of HDTV's.

[dale1]

who buys $500 dollar standalone systems blu ray or hd dvd players
people who own hdtv,s and what do they want content no disney on hd dvd
means bad news for kids so where do they go blu ray most people that spend this type of money have done there homework when freinds of mind ask three stores currys comet and dixons about what to buy they pointed
straight to blu ray no mention of hd dvd they even tryed to push them the ps3 stating the kids could play games on it

[ITR]

Disney is liable to go duel formats soon.
If Apple supports both..Disney will follow soon after.

Funny thing is most folks that buy Disney tend to buy reg DVD's..very few ask about BD or HD.
Hell Target only stocks about 3-4 of each title in BD or HD. I was the Elec Dept Manager so I do know abit about that. The only place I saw that stocked more was Best Buy. We got one of their BD/HD shipments and they had about 20 HD and 20 BD Superman Return's in it.

[gunnar2906]

I bet Chenese can bulk shops all around the world with handcrafted BR-players for only $199. But if Sony cares about its reputation it doesnt let them do.

[Hypnotic]

I'll just stick with my DVDs. The only people are going to get burned are the early adopters. I honestly don't think either format is going to win out of DVDs for a very long time.

[ITR]

I hear that!

[TheMART]

Ah great

No one can predict the outcome of this 'next gen' videodrive war.
Untill a few months ago, the HD-DVD sold more then BR. Only because of the Europe PS3 launch, BR kicked in. Now PS3 sales have dropped so hard, the HD-DVD will pick up more again.

Only in a few years we'll know what happened

[fenderputty]

You forget that cheaper Blu-Ray players will be out this summer while only attributing Blu-Ray sales to PS3 numbers. Nice though ... you got a chance to toss in your usual Doom and Gloom PS3 garbage. Carbon copy ...

[dale1]

japan has only one format bluray and europes heading that way ps3 sales 3.6 million sold 5.5 million shipped and 11million to be shipped
smart move sony made and microsoft didn,t fit a hddvd drive why options for bluray didn,t microsoft rep say possible

[nirwanda]

with a bit more thought and taking a few risk's if they sold the players at a slight loss like a console and sold the disk's cheaper as they use a similar process to the way they press dvd's and strike deals with all the supermarkets and electrical retailers i.e. push our players and we will sell you the disks for half the price of blu ray disks

don't think either are going to win for years and the problem is both formats are consortium's nether than monopoly's so no one grab the bull by the horn's and take the loss for the first few years to get a foothold in the market without upsetting the other partners dvd will rule for another 5 years at leased

[pshizle]

KILL YOURSELF FOR BEING HOMO

[drtysouf21]

you are ignorant and clearly not on my level so i won't even attempt to bring my IQ down by retaliating with another stupid ignorant fanboy comment like yours. If i hurt your feelings by posting this story then sorry here's a kleenex.

PS: i own all 3 consoles so you can say what ya want about me!
Here's a pic to prove it. If your going to come at me you need to come better then that.

[Why o why]

dont worry. its the mental age of a bot with a connection and way too much time on their hands shining through

[Chemical Daddy]

The general public does not care about fan boys, they do not care about blue ray and they do not care about HD-DVD. The deciding factor in this so called war is the non tech public most of which are just fine right now with DVD. In the very near future digital download will trump both formats. Both Blue ray and HD-DVD will be obsolete.

[Stiffler203]

Please Blu-Ray hasn't won sh!t. If you remember Sony came out with a thing called the Beta Max it was actually better then the VHS but lost to it. Do you know why a little thing called porn which make like billions a year. Also the fact that it was priced so high and the VHS was cheaper. Plus I guess you don't look at standard DVD sales which smash both formats to dust in sales.

[THC PRITCHARD]

there is no war in Hddvd and BR

Br upto 200 gig soon

WOW

[Bombomb]

Production costs for BD and HD-DVD

"According to Rick Marquardt, who previously was the Senior Vice President of Warner Advanced Media Operations (WAMO) that helped the DVD format achieving its wide success (Roberts, 2006), manufacturing BD discs would require an estimated US$1.7 million cost per each existing DVD manufacturing line (Marquardt,2005). Each major manufacturing facility would also require a minimum of two mastering systems, at a minimum cost of US$2 million per system, according to Marquardt.

In comparison, Marquardt states that the cost to adopt existing product
lines at DVD manufacturing facilities to HD DVD-production would be minimal.Marquardt says the cost of upgrading an existing DVD line is about US$150,000 and a DVD mastering system can be upgraded for US$145,000. Due to the lower (initial) production cost for HD DVD, the players also come at a lower retail price.

The first HD DVD player, Toshiba’s HD-A1, was listed at S$499.99 upon release in the USA in April 2006. The first Blu-ray players, Sony’s BDP-S1 and Samsung’s BD-P1000, were announced to cost respectively US$999.99 (sony.com, [2006-05-25]) and US$999 (amazon.com, [2006-05-25]) upon release during the summer of 2006.

Whether the production costs will affect the outcome for the format battle in the long run is uncertain. Most of the interviewees believe that it might be of HD DVD’s advantage initially, but that in the end the customer decides what he/she wants and the companies will produce accordingly (see chapter 6)."

Add Walmart and cheap Manufacturing Shops all over Asia, then you can see, why we will see cheaper HD-DVD players soon, which just might start to change things. Right now BD, has more support and thats the biggest factor, We know this.

If we see more Companies start to favor dual format players, then this thing is far from over, as well as more consumers that start to purchase either or, can also turn the tide real quick.

[fenderputty]

yet fail to mention the cheaper Blu_ray player available this summer, while mentioning cheaper HD-DVD players. You also completely ignore the amount of PS3s being used to play Blu-Ray movies. Kinda funny don't ya think? I guess I shouldn't fault you though. Plenty of other people have done the exact same thing in this thread. You also fail to mention that the movies are cheaper on the Blu-Ray format.

Still ... I'll say it again. By the time this format is decided, switching from one to the other will be MUCH cheaper.

[Why o why]

the trend that retailers are selling both formats at the same price. Uk standpoint.

[Arutha]

Yes Sony is introducing a cheaper BR player, but it is a crippled player. It is pretty much a bare bones unit(Audio up to Dolby Digitl Plus, no Dolby True HD or DTS HD). If you put that side by side with the HD A1(which came out last year for the same price) the HD A1 would blow it out of the water. Sure it is cheaper for a BR player, but it is still twice as much as a A20 (Amazon has it for $250 right now.

HD DVD will always probably have the lower price against Blu Ray players for awhile. What I liked about HD DVD from the get go was that it was only $499 to get into a new technology. I remember how expensive DVD was when it first came out.... Ouch..

[HaKeRsCanRotINHEL]

care-less about the next-gen format war! ;) Sarcasm ('< ~~~~~~~~~ :0

[VORODOR 2]

HD-DVD HAS BEEN GETTING FUKING POWERED TO THE MAX AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO BECAUSE PS3 IS ABOUT TO DROP THE BOMBSHELL ON THE G@YBOX 120 LATER THIS YEAR, WHEN THE PRICE DROP HAPENS AND THERE TO MANY KILLER APPS OUT ON PS3 FOR GAYBOX 120 TO HANDLE, I WOULD HAVE A BOUGHT A XBOX 360, BUT THERE'S A REASON I BOUGHT A PS3 OVER THE G@YBOX 120, THERE'S NO GAMES OUT FOR THE XBOX 360 THAT REALLY APPEAL TO ME, WHEN I SEE SOME THAT APPEAL TO ME I MIGHT BUY IT THEN, IT'S SIMPLE AS THAT; I THINK THE REAL REASON I'M SAYING THAT IS BECAUSE THE FIRST YEAR WAS AWFUL FOR THE XBOX 360, SH!TTY GAMES OUT FOR IT, ONLY NOW HAVE THEY MANAGED TO RELEASE SOMETHING WORTHY GOW, AND I DON'T LIKE THAT GAMEPLAY IN THAT, NOW ALL THE OTHER REALLY GOOD GAMES ARE MULTIPLATFORM, OBLIVION, GRAW 2, BLA BLA BLA, XBOX IIS FOR LONLEY G@YBOYS.

[Arkham]

I hear Draino tastes like candy.

[Rockstar]

"If Blu-ray begins to dominate this thing, Microsoft will simply announce a Blu-ray add-on drive for the 360 and continue on their merry way."

That would be interesting to see to say the least.

We'll have to wait and see.

Good article IMO.

[calderra]

That's another old story, actually. Before Xbox 360 released, Microsoft announced they weren't really too invested in either side, and it BluRay won, they'd have BluRay drives in WindowsPCs and put an external BluRay drive on 360. If HD-DVD were to win or at least survive, they'd prefer to stay with that as they do have some investment in that direction.

But, for example, 360 will never put games on either next-gen format and will stick with basic DVD, so Microsoft really can't lose. It's just that Sony fans are oh-so-worried about "winning"...

Even when Sony admits they're looking to move to download-based services and away from optical media in the near future anyway, thus rendering this whole thing utterly pointless from the beginning.

[Why o why]

x box owners dont like blu ray. its the strangest rationale ever. Ps fans not liking hd hdvd is just as strange but because the ps comes with blu ray it makes a little more sense. We as consumers need this format war to be over and quickly. Save fanboyism for your console of choice not the format war.

@calderra
depends what you mean by future. ps owners have a real invested intrest in wanting blu ray to win where as only hd dvd drive owners for the 360 are the ones with invested interest in this war. From my understanding also ms will use the blu ray if it wins the format war so unless you have the 360's hddvd you should have no reason to discredit the author of the article so strongly.

[IRISHCALIBER]

HD_DVD Rules the roost! The know crowd are aware of this as well as the average consumer. So, instead of paying any mind to the BLU-RAY propaganda, just head to the article page and E-Mail the crew over at Digital Bits(email address at bottom of article)and give them a piece of your Mind. I DID!! OoHH it Feels so good! Even the Hollywood Directors Guild know this!

P.S.- It's as simple as HD-DVD is consumer friendly. I have children with portable DVD players for the car and their rooms and I have an HD-DVD player in the Family Room. I can buy one film that will play in all machines. Makes the most sense. Now if only Disney would get their heads out of Sony's collective arses, I would start buying Disney films again!

[jwatt]

"Now if only Disney would get their heads out of Sony's collective arses, I would start buying Disney films again!"

This is exactly why Blu Ray will win.

[MadMax]

THE TOECUTTER, BUBBA ZENETTI, JOHNNY THE BOY, BLUE RAY PLAYER. ALL GOIN DOWN ALONG WITH THE PS3!

[MadMax]

BORN WITH A STEERING WHEEL IN HIS HAND!

[MadMax]

Roadwarrior out now on HD AND BLURAY, do yourselves a favor and go out a buy it. I dont care on what platform you choose, just go buy it!

[Bathyj]

......and Candleeni wants his hand back!

[RedSeven]

I think the most important factors are the exclusive content and the price. HD-DVD is cheaper but lacks support from some major motion picture companies. Bluray has the support, but has a higher price range. To be honest, depending on which part of the States you live in, the cost of each player might matter less. Here in NYC, a lot of people just seem to think an item that costs more is better, so I see more people purchase bluray players. If I go to Alabama, I see more people buy $5 VHS players and think it is the greatest invention.

[jesterlives]

If HDDVD is going to lose, why has BuenaVista decided to start making HDDVD and Bluray movies? Badder Santa is coming to both formats but Digibits kind of left that piece of information out.

[Bloodmask]

If you research the net you will find out that the cell(developed by Toshiba, Sony, and IBM), was engineered at the exact same time as Blu ray. That was really its primary purpose. To be a really good Bluray player. They couldn't get it to run games at all without a graphics card. The RSX was only finalized 6 months before the PS3 launched. That is why it is not that advanced. Sony also tried to market the cell to the PC gaming market, and it was rejected by every company. The cell processor was only put in PS3 to image the Bluray movies and sucks for gaming applications......Period.

So essentially what you are getting when you buy a PS3 is a high end Bluray player with a graphics card slapped in it as an afterthought.

If you look up the architecture of most of the Sony standalone BD players they are similar to PS3, I kid you not.

Sony has been planning this Bluray push on the world for over 4 years through the PS3.
All there hardware divisions will benefit from royalties from Bluray. They are forcing Bluray on the consumer and not even offering them a choice even if they prefer HDDVD. I just hate to see people fall for it because they are fanboys. Almost all the PS3 games are put on what are called BD9 disks...They are the exact same as DVD9 in size. The only difference is that they can be read by a blue laser as well as a red one.

Sony is basicly pushing hardware onto game publishers that was never meant or optimized for game coding. That is why all the developers complain, and why there are so many game delays.
They are basicly having to learn how to program all over again. Its just a shame that the public can't see it for what it is, and only for what they wish it were. Everybody suffers in the end. The consumer and devolopers bc of cost of Bluray and time spent to try and get their games to even run on the cell. The movie industry will also suffer.....with bluray being so nuch more expensive than HDDVD.

Just figured you might want to know the truth...The cell has no hidden power. That is why multiplatform games always run better on 360, because it was actually meant to run games. The cell processor on the other hand was designed specificly with Bluray in mind. Don't you thing it is kind of coincidence that Toshiba helped design the cell processor and they don't even make video game hardware. What they do make is an HD DVD player though. This has nothing to do with being a fanboy it is all based on fact. Sony has lost every format war they have ever started. They are just using the PS3 to make it unfair to Toshiba who offers the same quality technology at a very discounted price.

On a side note I base my arguments on fact so I would appreciate if anyone clicks disagree to explain why. Not just take my bubbles bc they are a fanboy. Anyone who finds some validity with my argument I would be very happy to have my bubble back. Thank you very much and Happy Gaming to all.

[GeneYus]

Mr. Madison. What you've just said....is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I guess you just got internet access or something cause you are so misinformed its almost scary. Its like you've had your head buried in the sand for the last year cause you're spouting off "fact" after "fact" that have been disproven in articles posted on this very site. For example the BS about the RSX being slapped on at the last minute. The cell can render ok, its made for games. Yes for BluRay too, but for many other uses as well, the reason all those companies were involved in creating cell is cause they wanted to create a multi-purpose chip that could be used in all their devices. The cell processors can work together. This could mean crazy interactivity between your appliances and electronics. If you REALLY think these guys spent BILLIONS of dollars on making a blu-ray player you need to stop drinking cough syrup or at least get your meds tweaked cause you're way off man. Look at the way they're using PS3s in tandem for folding at home. The PS3s have come in and dominated the folding project and they're only a FRACTION of the processors out there working on this project.

RSX was basically added to provide finishing touches or shader options (someone who knows more please elaborate I only have a vague recollection of what RSX really takes care of), its by no means just slapped on. It was good technology at the time, not the best, but good enough for what it needed to accomplish. The first gen ps3 games were being rendered almost entirely on the RSX which is why they havent taken the next gen leap. Yes some of the games are there, but not in the way we've been expecting, heavenly sword, uncharted, little big planet, eight days, ratchet and clank, go do some freaking research, if you think those dont look like some of the most impressive games you're some kinda blind or willfully idiotic. Why cant you just recognise a great piece of hardware?

As for the article, if you had read the original one it was in response to, you would know that the rebuttle was well balanced and defended, whereas the AICN article was a fluff piece. The talk backers there were even calling him a sellout cause he stated such obvious missinformation such as HD having more titles than BR. Arg I was on a rant there....

[hfaze]

OOOOOkay... I want some of what you're smoking, because it MUST be some good stuff! ;-)

http://www-03.ibm.com/press...

26 Apr 2007: IBM (NYSE: IBM) today disclosed a cross-company project to integrate the Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell/B.E.) with the IBM mainframe for the purpose of creating a hybrid that is blazingly fast and powerful, with security features designed to handle a new generation of "virtual world" applications, such as the 3D Internet.

Not one mention of Blu-Ray in that article...

Not to mention, if Cell is for nothing other than Blu-Ray, then why would Toshiba have invested so much money into it... Considering they're the ones backing HD-DVD after all...

Also, a little lesson on the Cell processor, and what it is capable of.

http://www.anandtech.com/cp...

If you're saying that Cell is not a powerful CPU, then just take a peek at the Folding@Home statistics.

http://fah-web.stanford.edu...

The PS3 is CRUSHING the other clients, even the GPU client. Now you're saying that with this kind of power that gaming will not benefit?

This sounds like the same lame BS that people were saying when the Playstation 2 first came out. "It's not a gaming machine", "Why are they forcing a new disc format on gamers, we don't need DVD"...

Hmmm... I wonder if those predictions were right... /sarcasm

[Arkham]

Bub for you because you used one of my favourite Billy Madison lines. ;)

[ApocalypseShadow]

the TRUTH is that one format

1.can use the same codecs
2.can hold more content
3.is more supported
4.has more manufactures
5.cost the same or less than hd-dvd movies
6.costs the same as dvd9 360 games
7.the higher cost of making discs is not passed on to consumers.
8.has players that have been slashed in half in one year.
9.has movies that can be played in a game system.

hmmmmm......i think we have a winner!that would be quite..........ummmmmmmm....OB VIOUS.

as for cell,apple refused because they are fine with the G series of chips and their own products.you don't see apple accepting windows os or accessories.apple wanted control.not because cell was inferior.same with pc chip makers.they got a lock on the pc market.

as for ps3 being a bluray player.it's a mighty fine one at that.thanks for pointing that out to everyone bloodmask.

that would be the TRUTH.

[Bloodmask]

Your right one format would benefit the consumer. Too bad it is all Sonys fault that there are 2 formats.Do you realize that the only reason why there is a format war is bc of Sony. When Toshiba, Sony and IBM were done egineering the cell processor and HDDVD there was only one format(which royalties were to be split between Toshiba and Sony). Just like the standard DVD. Sony split off the merger and basicly used Toshiba just for funding. Sony and Toshiba went their separate ways and Toshiba started their own brand HDDVD, which they bought the rights to the name. They started selling their players a year before Bluray was on the market. What Sony has done is split the market bc they wanted all the royalties for themselves. Bluray wouldnt even exist if it they wouldnt have screwed Toshiba in the end of it all. So blame Sony for screwing the consumer because they wanted all the royalties of HD technology for themselves.
They are using consumer ignorance to force Bluray on consumers in PS3. They haven't faught fair from the very beginning. The only reason movie studios are even backing them is bc of the trojan horse PS3. Consumers buy HDDVD players 4 to 1 over Bluray...it is a fact. Sonys greed has screwed the consumer and not even offered them a choice to which format they prefer bc they have blind sided the install base of HD players through a forced purchase in PS3.

[Bathyj]

I choose to watch movies made by Sony pictures.
I choose to watch movies made by Tristar.
I choose to watch movies made by MGM.
I choose to watch movies made by Warner.
I choose to watch movies made by Paramount.
I could go on.

I choose to play games on a console that gives developers room to grow their games bigger than last generations.
I choose to not have my games crippled by space limitations of a 10 year old format.

I choose to back a company that has delivered for the last 2 generations and not abandoned their customs because it became apparent they couldn't win.
I choose quality from a company that hasn't sold me a bad product in 33 years.

And I choose to pay $200 more to get it.

These are my choices and I live with them. You make your own and do the same but dont tell me how to make mine and then have the gaul to call others fanboy.

[freeza]

ppl are going to do what they want anyway so let them waste their cash on whatever they want

[Bathyj]

Especially 2 points I've been sayin for a while, (no wonder I agree.)

M$ dont care about BR or HDDVD. The only reason they are even paying lip service support to HDDVD is just to screw Sony. If they had choosen BR from the start there would never have even been a format war. it would have been over then and there. And think about it, from a PC storage point of view, bigger is always better so HDDVD make little
sense for them.

2nd, people who claim Porn will win the war. I think he said pretty well what I've been saying. Back in the 80's if you wanted Porn in your house, it was buy a magazine, or buy a Video tape. That was about it. Since this internet thingy came along Porn is so easy to get, lots of people actuall get it without even trying. Its not really an issue anymore and is not going to be an influence this time round.

The 3 things BR needs to beat HDDVD are
1. Userbase
2. Studio Support
3. Availability and price.

1. It has with PS3. Once there are 10 million PS3's at Christmas, or 20 million by next Christmas, HDDVD will just be a memory we'll tell our kids about in 10 years time. It went CD-DVD-BR. Some tried to make a DVD 2.0 once but it died and we went straight to the next thing.

2. Um everyone knows this right. Its like if PS or XB or Wii had 90% of ALL DEVELOPERS on their side. Who would stand a chance?

3. In Australia I never even saw a HDDVD until a month ago. There were a couple titles shoved into the BR racks, (you know those cardboard standee things.) I said to the manager as a joke Sony might get upset having HDVD's in a rack and space they have paid for. I was mucking around but he obviously thought I had a point cos now the HDDVDs are sitting on the floor next to the BR's. They wont give them any other room or shelf space. And while the prices seem to vary from title to title HDDVD is no cheaper than BR. They are about the same, but I'm not sure if I've seen any combo disc so they must be worth more. On eBay BR's are going for about the price of a New DVD in retail so thats not to bad. If a new movie comes out I want (especially some thing with lots of FX or animated) then an extra 5 or even $10 Australian is worth it to get it on BR. They just need to hurry up with the titles. I dont know why it takes so long but they could just about end this thing if they released a Pixar Box set on BR for a couple hundred bucks. CGI is where you'll notice the biggest leap in quality because they are all from a digital source to start with.

PS. PS3 is a really good quality BR AND DVD player. I've got a Pioneer DVD recorder worth about $700 and I actually think the PS3 gives a better picture, especially since the upscaling update. I feel like slapping people when they post "Sony forced me to buy BR, I'm not going to throw away all my DVD's."
Ummm. no one says you have to buy BR movies. It just stands to reason that if you already have the machine, and a HDTV which you probably do or are thinking about if you bought a HD console then HD movies make sense. I know as soon as I got my TV i wanted some content to show it off. Hell I only got it for X360 and PS3. As for throwing away your DVD's, man thats so dumb. Why would you? They look better than ever. Do you think I dont buy DVD's anymore because my BR collection is growing? Get real. There not enough title yet on BR to satisfy me and older movies are way cheaper on DVD's. I buy probably 3 to 5 every week and only get BR if its something I really want. Like I said, not enough titles yet, but they are coming.

Anyway have fun.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Yawn another HDDVD VS BLU-RAY article, Sony fan claims victory next it will be an HDVDV fan that will claim victory.

[ApocalypseShadow]

of a lier and a hypocrite.

if you don't like sony,SELL YOUR PS3.

as bathyj said(good comments by the way),we CHOSE to get ps3.it wasn't forced on us.

we weren't SUPRISED by bluray when opening the box.we knew it was there already.

we CHOSE to get ps3 because sony hasn't failed yet when it comes to consoles.and we wanted high def movies to go with our high def games.

100 million ps1s
115 million ps2s
25 million psps in a nintendo controlled portable market.(because every other portable failed)

with a track record like that,who would you pick?

oh,i see.you picked the horse that came in last last time and was shot to death by it's owner.

and now you're wondering if the horse you picked this time has the legs to go the distance.and now you're saying the competition is using steroids.

stfu.

[carlman23]

We're still measuring sales of these things in the 10,000s! A single good DVD can outsell all Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies sold to date combined in a week!

Blu-ray may destroy HD-DVD, but it's frickin' nickels and dimes right now. Why would the public give up on traditional DVDs anytime soon? Think of how long it took DVD to become established.

Are we going to have to hear about this for years to come???

[Genki]

It's amazing how each and every spinned angle equates to truth in the eyes of some.

Arm yourself with some one-sided information(even though there was a lack of hard info in your post), and you can't be wrong. Any other way to look at it is BS, right?

You remind me of Tom Cruise and his ridiculous shtick on psychology. "I did the research, so I know what I'm talking about, and you don't!" For someone who's so sure of himself, you sure aren't very open-minded to the possibility that you might be...um...wrong.

Anyway...on with the dissection..

"They couldn't get it to run games at all without a graphics card."

See the videos of Cell rendering the gas station explosion. Read any Factor 5 interview...Hell read several developer interviews. But wait...you're stating facts, I forgot...nothing else could be true, just propaganda or BS, right?

"The cell processor was only put in PS3 to image the Bluray movies and sucks for gaming applications......Period." ;

This is your definition of a fact, huh? Silly me. This whole time I was thinking facts could be proven and supported by, I don't know, proof and evidence...maybe?

"That is why all the developers complain"

Another one of those facts, right? I guess it must be true, because good news about the Cell is just unheard of in todays world!

"That is why multiplatform games always run better on 360, because it was actually meant to run games."

I suppose you've never heard of ports, have you? So I suppose you were the same person that said the Super Nintendo wasn't a games machine when the arcade ports of Street Fighter made it home, right? There's a reason for everything...and I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but this particular reason doesn't fit your petty little agenda as you would like it to. Bad ports happen. All hardware is not created equal. There's a fact for you.

"The cell processor on the other hand was designed specificly with Bluray in mind."

How right you are. I must have been dreaming when I heard of the Cell BE being used in various applications for the military, supercomputers, servers, F@H, and oh..wait...it's on the top of my head! Eureka! GAMES!

"Don't you thing it is kind of coincidence that Toshiba helped design the cell processor and they don't even make video game hardware."

This is an easy one.

Toshiba - electronics giant.

Cell processor - designed to work in....you guessed it...ELECTRONICS

"This has nothing to do with being a fanboy it is all based on fact."

LOL If you say so boss. So far I've yet to see one thing supporting any of your foolish claims. Keep it up though, it's mildly entertaining...these "facts" of yours.

"Sony has lost every format war they have ever started."

I know! Remember those stupid CD thingies? Gosh, I haven't seen one in YEARS! I'm glad that I still have my trusty old cassette player, and by the sounds of it, so are you...

These fanatics never cease to amaze me. Try another hand at being cunning, because this one didn't work out too well. As a matter of fact. just fold, because nobody is interested in your B.S., but thanks for asking, though.

[PimpNick_1980]

Fanboys are still pissed that there PS3 is going to s##t! Or has already. Thats why the movie and game studios are jumping off sony sinking ship. Just look that the sales trends of there last FAILING formats. Beta, Mini Disk, now Blu-Ray. There all to simular.

[icechai]

Read the article instead of jumping into the comments to flame. This article actually isn't about the Sony PS3! *gasp* Its about the movie industry and the writer from a major tech site believes its either blu-ray or bust. Mainly it was written to counter AICN (a major film site) on their thoughts that HD-DVD would win. Digital Bits gives some convincing arguments and uses some reputable data to back it up (if you think the Nielsen company caters to fanboys only, you probably aren't in the working world yet).

The future of HD video storage are not going to be determined by fanboys only. I think this article is an interesting read as to the other non PS3 factors that are involved in Blu-Ray supremacy.

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

I and many other people dont like dMD we want a hard copy in our hands wat if your hard drive crashes do u get it for free(no)
..wat if u want to take it ova a fiends house..there are plenty of problems with that...Ill just give it to blu ray for now...Aslo if this was not a Sony format would u people hate it so much..FUD xbotx against sony..They will preveil no matter how much FUD u bots throw out there..I dont know why u hate playstaion so much when u got a perfectly good system to love why hate another great sytem....HATE THE WII

[solidt12]

Unless the name HD-DVD can make a big difference this season, Blu-Ray won last year.

[dolomyte3d69]

Unless you work for Sony or Microsoft, of have some serious financial interest in either of these companies, why is everybody on this fanboy trip? Is it really that serious, or is this mainly an ongoing joke that goes on daily? Truth is, I could care less who wins the war, because once this war is over, another one will kick off. I started off playing Nintendo 64 games, then bought a PS1, then PS2 and then an XBOX. I preferred the gaming on my XBOX, so it was obvious that I'd buy a 360 when it surfaced. I have a dedicated home theater, so I eventually bought a Toshiba HD-A1. I bought the PD3 a few months ago and love it. I bought the Wii for my daughter, and guess what? I love playing the Wii more than any of the other consoles, mainly because it's more interactive and my wife will join me most times. The PS3 is a remarkable machine and I love Blu-Ray, but the PQ isn't on par with the HD-A1. I watch movies weekly and I've hosted a few movie nights. The HA-A1 gets most votes for PQ every time. I don't have the latest HDMI AV receiver, but I have a very solid system that I use 5.1 analog for TrueHD/DD+, and the audio from the HD-A1 is also incredible. I'll eventually upgrade my receiver for TrueHD/DTS HD support for the PS3. Bottom line is, everyone can't afford to own both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. If HD-DVD fails, I'll have a very good DVD player with solid upconversion capabilities and several HD-DVD titles to play when I feel the need. If Blu-Ray wins, I'm already straight with the PS3. I don't lose sleep over Sony or Microsoft, because the execs for both of these companies are not losing sleep over me. They may lose sleep over my money, but not me. If you love HD-DVD, buy it. If you love Blu-Ray, but it. If you can afford both, then you can't lose. If you want to wait it out, get a Oppo DVD player, save some cash and continue to trip off folks arguing over who will win a war that's not theirs.

[artman]

I don't bother which is winning, ... 360 user why bother? there is no 360's game using HD-DVD anyway... even you bought an ad-on HDDVD Player.
I don't buy those ad-on, I think it's pointless.

This is more into Home entertainment world, not gaming world... why 360 fans so defensive so much in this? if you guys really into the Home theater things then you should be worry...
I don't care which one is win... but I think Bluray offer something more, that's all.

[IPlayGames]

Is HD relying on the timed exclusive "Matrix" to help because thats the only movie that i want from HD but come xmas ill be happy.

HD need studio support. Anybody buying either format will be doing some kind of research (being its so early in both life cycles) and wut they will find is how many movies will be exclusive to BR.\
Star Wars
Disney (And dont act like us parents put the movies on just for the kids)
Porn (I know its sound scary HD porn but i wanna see it)

As for consoles go experts have already proven that PS3 BR player is better than the 360 add-on www.1up.com (i belave its in the April edition). If u already own a 360 i can see u buying 1 but if your gonna buy 360 + HDplayer that doesnt make any sense. just go with a ps3 for the extra content and potential.

[Uganda64]

Tell it like it is.
Only, the idea that downloading will take over for DVD any time soon is wrong.
I heard someone say the LIVE video marketplace was very popular/successful. It's a total bomb compared to Apple's iTunes video downloads, and that's a TOTAL bomb compared to actual DVD sales. Also, LIVE VM is just rentals.

Doubt that anyone saying HD-DVD still has a chance or that this was written by PS3 fanboys etc actually READ the article.

[Pika-pie]

I like it how people cannot say they believe that BluRay will win without being labelled a "fanboy"

Well i think its obvious that Bluray will be next gen format, HD DVD is a dead horse now.-

-cue 'your a fanboy' posts...

[bolitas100]

BLUE RAY FORMAT IN MY OPINION WILL RULES YEARS AND YEARS THE EXCELENT QUALITY HE DEMANDS IS SUPERB.WHOS SAYS THE OPPOSITE ITS BECAUSE DONT REALY HAVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT.BLUE RAY - THIS IS LIVING

[peksi]

YOURS TRULY

GEORGE 5 YRS

[tudors]

I like to have all the information I can get but seriously this site seems to cause too many topics that appear to cause argument between Sony and MS; how about we just try and be a bit more intersted in the games they have to offer.

[Pika-pie]

Totally agree -

People somehow manage to twist almost every news story into a MS v PS3 war.

[MK_Red]

I hate the whole situation. Sony and Toshiba shoud have worked together to make one unique ultimate next gen format not the mess we are in. Two Pirates movies on BD and The Matrix Trilogy on the other format. Stop this madness.

[Alymon]

Seriously? Again?

Come on.... whether it is well thought out or not, the fact is, it's still speculation and opinion.

Either buy whatever format you want based on what each format offers you, buy a combo drive that plays both when they are available.... or wait til the dust cloud settles and then decide.

But stop bickering and moaning because some website posts their opinion on it.

[gta_cb]

dont like the title, i think it should be called

"next gen movie guys beware" as its simple you mite buy the wrong format, so please stop with these silly articles and just win the format war, someone! i wanna play HD-DVD or BluRay movies soon, but i dont wanna buy any till we have a winner.

[Havince]

but then, i bought my xbox coz i play GAMES, wasnt and arnt intrested in HD, but also, i think blue ray is flopping aswell, until the time the players arnt a rip off and the movie prices are reduced

[Havince]

a player that plays both HD and blue rays available. but its about £1000

[Alymon]

Yea, I remembered hearing about it, but I wasn't sure it was available and I knew it was too expensive.

Until a combo drive because readily available for a few hundred dollars. 1000 is way too high to expect much support for it.

[Hectic_Kris]

im going to have to purchase a player that plays them both not yet tho going to wait to see what happens nd for prices to drop a bit or i might just even wait for ps3 to drop in price and then il have blu ray pllayer on there and possibly might even purchase a hddvd drive for my sexuall 360

[Saint Sony]

Hehe, could not care less. People get mad about 2 formats that will die in next 4-5 years when new and a lot better media comes out.

[540damn]

lmao at all the microsoft and hd dvd fanboys. feelings hurt much? sound like a bunch of cry babies.

[progx]

this is just as bad as that sony protection group complainer crying about people buying HD-DVD over blu-ray.

[Chemicalcode]

Gettin far too bored of these vs stories, they'll be shouting from the rooftops about digital distribution (As Microsoft is doing with 360 now, In US a least) before the dust gets anywhere near to settling on this format war. Having got the 360 HD player and seen BR running in stores I don't think they give the leap in quality over things like SKY HD or equivalent services, that justify their high costs. A set top box and a few terabytes of storage Is the way I'll be going.

[zonetrooper5]

"Very good read.

The war is pretty much over, but some people jsut don't know when to back out, like in Vietnam for instance."

Lol now thats a dumb and funny comment. You can't compare a format war to an actual War where people died. Here, let me tell you about the Vietnam war. America only invaded Vietnam because they thought that the Vietnese would become communism as they were just south of China who have always been communist. The USA is capalist and hate communists. However, Vietnam was never communist and in fact they hated the communist. America did not reliaze tihs so they decided to start a war which ended up with them getting their asses kicked.

Some American schools are even teaching the students that they won the war, America never won the war, they retreated with their tails between their legs. The power of Ideology, powerful isn't if?

Anyways, back on topic, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are not selling as much as you would want them too. Neither of them for a few years will be going. As for now, its gonna be a long time before one format pulls through.

[codeazrael]

It amazes me that a story so full of errors get any type of attention. The fact of the matter is that blur ray discs have a razor's edge lead over hd dvd in disc sales. How much of an edge? Try around only 2,000 disc lead, and much of this can be contributed to PS3 owners trying to fill the void in games that they may be experiencing. The more important factor to note is that the hd dvd stand alone players still have a very healthy lead over blue ray, and like it or not, the porn industry's loyalty is not necessarily the nail in the coffin, but it is a vital factor in deciding this format war. And realize, just like Sony is having to realize with the PS3, it is not all about the bells and whistles that you offer, economics will play a huge part in a product's success. And Sony should know this better than anybody. And I find it funny that now since they are claiming to have the more powerful game console they are confident that that will be the deciding factor in this current console war, when in just the last generation the more inferior system in terms of power, the ps2 dominated in sales over the more superior xbox. Not turning this into a console conversation, or not meaning to at least, but getting back to HD format, even walmart is going to be carrying an hd dvd player so cheap, that it will definitely help win the format war for the hd dvd. Think about how Microsoft managed to undermind everything Sony has done for consoles to the point to where after only one console the 360 is now the number 1 next gen console out there. Now given that, and given that microsoft is also involved in hd dvd, the same undermining is going on, and not just for the cut they'll get from royalties from the format, but think about it, if blue ray fails, then all.......I mean the people who actually own a ps3 will then be faced with the reality that their next gen console has a proprietary disc drive, and when that happens, then in my opinion, that will kill the ps3. Talk about killing two birds with one stone!

[Kleptic]

Great post...there hasn't been a console war where the "most powerful system" won since the SNES...the original playstation was similar to the Saturn (ps was better at 3d polygon rendering, the satrun was far superior at sprites)...and both where hugely weaker than the N64, which failed by pushing a horrible format back onto players again...

enter the dreamcast, ps2, Xbox, and GC...the dreamcast was in a position where the 360 is now after the initial launch of the ps2...the ps2 was harder to develop for...but Sega had totally screwed themselves with a lot of 3rd party devs. by abandoning the Saturn...and then the ps2 started getting more and more exclusive 1st party games that pushed the system...and the other developrs took notice...

however it was hugely inferior power wise to the original xbox...and they were a n0ob going up against Sony's established brand...the GC was even more powerful than the ps2, but nintendo has always pushed nothing but their own franchises for the most part, and it never really got anything 3rd party that was worthwhile other than RE 4...

So with this war, everything points towards Sony not coming up on top...if the past has anything to do with it...The ps3 is arguably the most powerful hardware wise, yet is lagging in every department when it comes to games right now...and being the most powerful has not done much to persuade people's buying habits for over 12 years...

I do agree with this article in that, if anything, there most likely won't be a clear winner...both will probably be around for a very long time, with one only slightly ahead...which sucks for the consumers...because no one wants two players in their living room, just because the big corporations couldn't agree on anything...

[UltimateTroll]

There's no debate about it Sony BLU-RAY has got this one in the bank, keep on dreaming Xbots HD-DVD is done for this is something Billy boy gates never banked on, even if there format failed and they released BLu RAY add on, that would be a major win for Sony, because MS would have lost and people would have to buy a BLU-RAY player making Xbox more dearer omg how funny lol!

[sabbath420]

No debate? In the bank? Dude you are so blind and misled by sony and the lies they spew.

[Bordel_1900]

The best article I've read about the supposed format war.

From now on I'll buy only Sony products, Toshiba is out the window.

@codeazrael
That's not the truth and you know it. The truth is that since march 2007 Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD by 3 to 1.

[jules301h]

Wow, for someone who is pointing out the errors in Mr. Knowle's article, they sure do have a lot of errors in theirs. The difference is they know what they are talking about. After all, by boastful omission, they were right about dvd and divx. So, why do they choose to deliberately hide the truth. I don't know. But, this is what their article hides:

"More people purchased BOTH pirates BDs than purchased any Matrix box set".

So what? The matrix box set forced people to buy all 3 movies together. I for one, only want the first matrix film, so I did not purchase it. I know I am not alone in this. Pirates purchasers could choose, they did not necessarily have to buy both films. They didn't need to shell out $70 on the spot. Not everyone can afford to spend $70 on one movie set. Further, the matrix box sets are 3 movies, not 2, and they retail for significantly higher prices than both pirates films combined. Finally, the numbers don't specify which set was purchased, the ultimate, or basic, so there is no way to know exactly how much money the matrix sets made for the studios. At the least, it is $1,098,100 and that is if no ultimate box sets are sold. Pirates sold 1,175,000. That's a difference, if no ultimate box sets are sold, of only $76,900. When you consider the amount of ultimate sets sold, and the fact that many people are holding out for the single releases of each movie so they don't have to buy the whole set (for instance, like the mission impossible collection) the sales figures are much closer. But, the article doesn't bother to mention that.

it has the support of EVERY HOLLYWOOD STUDIO BUT UNIVERSAL" (am I on a message board with 8 year olds, is the caps really necessary?):

They neglect to mention Weinstein. They have some great films. I personal like clerks 2 and lucky # slevin.
The statements that there are great titles coming, cheaper models for BD applies to hd-dvd as well!

amazon had a huge toshiba blowout sale, only $239 for the player, and it was ranked #1 in electronics for some time. Newer Nielson numbers do not take this into account and it will be some time until we see how these huge player sales help software sales.
Also, what happened to all of fox's scheduled releases? Why were they delayed and when are they coming out?

They mention Toshiba losing money on the player, how much money is sony losing on every PS3 they sell? More than Toshiba!

They don't mention combos at all. BD does not have them. I don't want to buy 2 copies of a new film because I want to be able to watch it in my car, or my bedroom, or relatives house, as well as my main home theater in my house, and I don't have to with combos.

They also don't mention the higher cost to make BD's and the problems with importing special features (No U-control and hard to implement with java, this is why no batman begins or matrix on blu-ray yet), or the players that are already obsolete because they lack ethernet ports.

[omansteveo]

Why are people still talking about this further proof that Blu-ray wasn't intended for games and isnt need for games 200 million PC gamers would agree with me.

[Arkham]

PC games are run from harddrives, not a disc. CDs/DVDs are only used as a medium to deliver the compressed installation files, not as a gameplay disc. Your comparison is entirely invalid.

[Kleptic]

while its obvious that a lot people don't use their gaming machines for movies...ther are a group of people that do...If the ps3 had two versions, one that was $200 cheaper without a BD drive...I still would have went with a the version I purchased...

DVDs look like crap on my 60" compared to BD...the BD side has more of the movies and firms that have rights to the movies that I want to watch...I have nothing against HD DVD, its just that there are very few movies that are ONLY on HD DVD that I have interest in...most are available on both...and are roughly the same price, so it doesn't hurt me...

It is funny how so many people get so upset about how "BD shouldn't be pushed on gamers..." ...who cares...its a format that doesn't hurt gaming at all...while its not very needed also, its not a bad thing...it just simply made the ps3 more expensive...which, if you care about the games coming out for the ps3, you get over pretty quickly...

The biggest problem with the ps3 is the lack of games...if you didn't want a BD player, and you are not happy with the current lineup of games...............why did you buy one?...

Something tells me most that complain about the ps3 pushing BD on gamers...Do not own one...I have yet to see a ps3 owner say "I hate my ps3 because Sony pushed a BD drive on me..."...its mostly...."I hate that I bought a ps3 because there is absolutely nothing, game wise, out yet"

while a lot of ps3 owners definitely do claim that BD is absolutely necessary for games right now...they are wrong...nothing has illustrated that its needed at this point...but it also isn't hurting anything, other than that temporary hit on your wallet...Its the Cell that is hurting games right now...development costs are huge, and Sony has done little so far to push or show what 3rd party developers can get out of the machine...I don't dislike the 360 at all...and may eventually get one if they come out with a broader layout of games...the only thing that is pushing the system so far has been shooters...and Forza 2 hasn't impressed me nearly as much as I was hoping it would...

The real enemy to "next gen" console owners is the Wii...thats the thing I absolutely hate...and am tired of hearing about it...

[codeazrael]

He said...........*I have yet to see a ps3 owner say "I hate my ps3 because Sony pushed a BD drive on me..."...its mostly...."I hate that I bought a ps3 because there is absolutely nothing, game wise, out yet"*

Well yeah, you should hate that the ps3 don't have any games over hating that you were forced to adopt bluray as a format......after all, it is a gaming system first.

Next thing which I am not even going to waste time quoting from you was that maybe you'd buy a 360 when they get a broader layout of games??? Uh, last time I checked, not only are they now bringing what was at one time only pc games to the box like rts games, they already as far as games have a better spread then Jenna Jameson!

[codeazrael]

With the pending release of GTA IV on a next generation system, that game alone will validate or disclaim any reason to rush to moving to higher capacity discs.........even though I thought Oblivion fitting on a DVD 9 no less with room to spare was proof enough. If the 360 needs to use like 3 discs or more for GTA IV then I will say that M'soft should have rethought not making HD DVD their main drive. But as I said with Oblivion, with those graphics being so good and that game being soo long, to say that bluray or hd dvd is necessary for this generations consoles is b.s. plus what's the big deal anyway, even if a game did come out on multiple discs and it was more financially feasible for a company to release a game like that to bring you a product for cheaper, then what type of lazy bastard are you to not get your fat butt off of the couch and change a disc.........not even close to often?

[progx]

"Here, let me tell you about the Vietnam war. America only invaded Vietnam because they thought that the Vietnese would become communism as they were just south of China who have always been communist. The USA is capalist and hate communists. However, Vietnam was never communist and in fact they hated the communist. America did not reliaze tihs so they decided to start a war which ended up with them getting their asses kicked."

-Why are you bringing this up? Your wrong anyway. We got involved in vietnam because the south didn't want to go red like the north. *I duno wtf you've heard* We won every battle when the reds weren't hiding among civilians and using children as weapons like p*ssys. U.S. public opinion/pressure is what got us out. The south only fell when U.S. forces left and the south vietnamese couldn't win themselves.

If your gona bring stuff like this up do it somewhere else, and know wtf your talking about.

[codeazrael]

Another point to bring out about the need or lack of to make higher capacity discs the format of choice for this generation is a point that J. Allard made. He asked developers which ones had the budget to create games that would use the disk space on an hd dvd or bluray. Now considering that production of next gen games have already skyrocketed supposedly, and also considering that just like movies, when it comes down to the finished product, so much content is trimmed from the game anyways. And no developer had any compelling reason to bring to the table about why a higher capacity disc was needed, especially considering also that economically for game studios, it makes more since to release additional content via microtransactions on LIVE or wii or ps-whatever. And that is definitely proving to be the way to go and game studios love it. Because once you sell a disc, that's it, no more residuals for you. But when you over time release additional content, much like the shivering isle expansion for oblivion or maps or whatever, you not only can make additional money from a title instead of cramming content on a disc and being done with it once its sold, you also can take more time to make whatever additional content you release more quality content, and everybody wins, especially the game studio. And microtransactions are definitely something that gamers have adopted. I mean you can buy maps, themes, pics.......I mean the possibilities are endless, and studios and gamers alike are eating it up. So to review, all the content that bluray gamers are hoping for to fill those discs to capacity now, if Sony is smart and wanna make additional royalties to make up for alot of the loss they have incurred with the ps3, they will tell developers to put the basic game on the disc, and any additional content, do like LIVE and list it as microtransactions on the playstation network, and this is something that you won't have to twist the arms of developers in the studio, because if it is going to make them additional money, then not only are they all for it, but they are in fact banking on that same strategy. You see, the $100 plus games that you heard may come out this generation are in coming and in some instances have already arrived, but they are and have come in a different form as far as price point. Make the gamer think that he or she is buying a game for an already higher price of $59.99 and if they game is good enough, the additional money that gamer spend online to buy maps, expansions and whatever else will meet as well as exceed that $100 price we heard about games getting to. Great strategy! And just think, I remember when Microsoft was the only one really believing in online and really pushing everyone to adopt it. They seen the revenue potential. And as a game studio you have to appreciate that. So, in summary, a high capacity disc is really irrelevant right now.

[bootsielon]

But anyway, a console maker would certainly know more (especially a successful one) on what format to deliver games, since a console maker has the eye set on the future, Sony saw 10 years away; of course developers wouldn't know if they set their eyes two years from now; perhaps Allard didn't ask japanese developers like Square Enix or Konami. Anyway, for long lifespans, I guess not Microsoft and not Nintendo; they probably have only planned a 4-5 year lifespan for their consoles. PS1 and PS2 both had the most storage:RAM ratio compared to their toughest competitors. They've had the most advanced storage discs for game consoles always, and now the same applies with PS3. PS1 lasted about 10 years, and PS2 will probably last more than that. PS3 could still be competing with PS4 and Xbox 720 the way PS2 is competing now with PS3, Wii and 360. The gamecube wouldn't be able to do that. Hell, the Xbox could do that had microsoft not screwed up with backwards compatibility and completely dropped off its support. There are many games that will utilize or need that storage, which is proof that, even if it's not needed for all games, the higher density formats aren't irrelevant for gaming; it's always better to have more space, regardless of how much you can download. After all, not everything can be downloaded. Sometimes for a game to be complete, it has to fill more space than just a DVD9; like GTA4, 2 days 2 vegas, and so on . Sorry to crush Xbot's dreams, but it's true.