Unreal Engine 3: Epic's Fail

The Power Review: The Unreal Engine 3 has fueled consoles for much of this generation and propelled some of its best games. But are developers relying too heavily on this middleware engine, and is that leading to the engine itself holding back the true potential of this generation's consoles?

[Why o why]

its obvious. Everything has a life cycle and UE3 or any other engine are not immune to the decline stage

[UNCyrus]

that's the point... however some console(s) seem to be clinging to it for dear life

*edit* better lokiroo? hahah

[lokiroo420]

You mean a console is clinging.

[OGharryjoysticks]

Using earlier games to compare the 360 and PS3 running UE3 is tricky because even though it's a middleware, devs didn't really know how to program for the PS3. Looking at the Wolverine screens (although they are small shots) to me it looks a little better on PS3 because I notice more details for some reason. And I also played that Batman Arkham Asylum demo at a kiosk at Toys R Us on PS3 and it looked and ran like a good game. Honestly the PS3 is tricky, but I really wouldn't doubt UE3 showcasing itself on the PS3 in future games.

[ShabzS]

unreal is a geat engine that has given it fare share of great games ... gears, mass effect, graw, splinter cell, rainbow six, mirrors edge, XIII...

but yes its time has come... enough with the measly updates it recieves, its time to start fresh from the ground up... either epic realises this themselves or they can wait till id tech 5 and cry engine 3 make them change a few things

[Nathan123]

Lets face it... Developers are going to hold on to UE3 until some other engine like CryEngine 3.0 takes over. Building a new engine for a game not only takes more time, but takes more money as well. Though the results are stunning (PS3 exclusives anyone?), but still we all know that how much time and money goes into building such games (at least 3-4 years).

I was really pleased with CE3. Hopefully it will take over. UE3 is definitely holding back the PS3.... The games always have issues with textures and pop-ins. I don't know if it's holding the 360 or not... Since the best looking 360 exclusive is Gears 2... UE3. Frankly I have yet to see a 360 exclusive made on a custom engine that rivals UE3's Gears for the 360. Halo sucked in graphics (640P!!! not even HD). I know a lot of games on the PS3 that kick the crap out off UE3 (Uncharted 1/2, KZ2, MGS4, GOW3... notice all made on custom engines). So in short UE3 is crap for PS3.

I hate to say this, but until UE3 engine is used, multi-plat will tend to be inferior on PS3. CE3 seems to be better for both consoles. UE3 should be buried by now. Even the UE3 itself is not surpassing its 2 year old games. Gears 1 (a 2 year old game!!!) & 2 are good, but rest of the games look crap. Let UE3 die in peace.

[bullswar]

UNREAL ENGINE 3 is like a same average actor being casted again and again for whatever new film is coming up.

Yeah it was gr8 in the beginning but as time pass ... you start to get bored of seeing the same actor acting with hiccups (popping texture), his facial expression, his voice, attitude and personality and this is exactly being happenned with UE3.

I need change or UE3 should bring up something extraordinary that'll again make us like this engine. For now Ive already paid my Obituaries to UE3 engine.

[Pika-pie]

Im sure they are working on a UE4 engine :)

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I agree that every engine will reach it's decline stage, but Gears of War 2 proves that Unreal 3 when pushed is still one of the best engines graphically for the 360.

What game available now looks better than GeoW2 on the 360? Even before GeoW2, there weren't any games that really gave it GeoW1 a run for its money in the graphic department until GeoW2. One could tend argue that developers are lazy for the 360 as well....

[gambare]

"What game available now looks better than GeoW2? Even before GeoW2, there weren't any games that really gave it GeoW1 a run for its money in the graphic department until GeoW2."

Uncharted

[Shadow Flare]

True. Unreal Engine 3 is like Jeff Goldblum. He's the same in all his films. What's that jeff? You're playing an eccentric scientist again in your upcoming film? Never of guessed that. And like Jeff Goldblum, all unreal engine games tend to have the same sort of look about them

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I intended my comment for the 360 only. I edited to clarify that. If they are going to get rid of the engine responsible for one of the best looking games for the 360, they better darn well make sure we get something better. That was my point.

Uncharted looking better than GeoW or vice versa is debatable.

[M_Prime]

i also think it has to do with what they are trying to do with the engine..

i mean the CE3 makes beautiful jungles.. but if you want a city scape it seems better done in UE3..(gears vs Crysis) and then there are custom engines but those will be used for sequals i bet..

i would also say personally the RAGE (GTA IV) engine really impressed me for the amount of stuff it handles.. i mean the whole city feels alive.. and done so well and looks pretty as well) but if this engine was used for gears wit would look like poop.. so each engine has its ups and downs.. and i think UE3 will be around for a while.. it the dark and dingy that it does well and until another engine does this well we won't be seeing anything too new... also amazing how versitile UE3 is... in my mind anyways..

[Shadow Flare]

lol i was about to post that link. Seriously anyone who thinks gears beats uncharted (let alone killzone) is out of their mind. I mean seriously, how many times does that kineticninja link need to be shown till 360 fanboys get the idea

[kickaski]

that comparison is completely unfair!... it's based on reality, and we all know reality has a Sony bias.

xD

[ShabzS]

i have to disargree with you there buddy ... while by no means i'm saying that gears 2 dosesnt look kick ass... however it is not the best the 360 has to offer graphically ... see this is where multiplats dont get thier credit where its due... far cry 2 resident evil 5 dead space hell even the upcoming lost planet 2 all look better than gears

having said that ... i still have yet to play a game that gives me an adrenaline rush as much as gears does... it just jacks up your heart beat .. i love it

[Tony P]

Why don't we let the devs decide when to ditch UE3? Most don't even know how a game is made. Engine hate...it's just silly.

[rockleex]

Because of its fake trailer back then, although Killzone 2 almost reached that same level of graphics and still ended up being one of the best looking titles out right now.

But no one likes to remember that Gears of War 2 had fake bullshots at much higher resolutions with better quality textures and lighting effects.

[phosphor112]

About Beyond 3D, it is actually a credible site, but the thing is, they only know PC technology, they don't know how any of this new technology holds. I doubt anyone on that site actually knows how the i7 works, not to mention the Cell. So when it comes to PC tech, they know their stuff, but they really can't compare 360 (PC hardware) vs PS3 (CBE/ non-parallel system).

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

... and the people here are much better judges of course? /sarcasm

Note, I don't agree or disagree with your statement.

[FamilyGuy]

Is on point, Gears 2 isn't the best looking 360 game because multiplat Resident Evil 5 far surpasses it and the upcoming Lost Planet 2 looks like it will do the same. I can't comment on the others he's mentioned though, simply because I have not seen them.

One problem though, what engine powered Resident Evil 5?

[ShabzS]

capcoms inhouse mtframework 2.0 ... same engine powering lost planet 2 ..

[Tony P]

"Why don't we let the devs decide when to ditch UE3? Most don't even know how a game is made. Engine hate...it's just silly. "

Clarification: Most *of us commenting* don't even know how a game is made. Devs obviously do.

[outlawlife]

@porcelaingod

your whole normal mapping speech just proves you don't know what you are talking about

every single game out there uses normal maps extensively, UE3 or not
normal mapping doesn't fake anything, it is a more efficient way of modelling and rending as opposed to using 100% geometry

if it weren't for normal maps game models would still look as if they were on ps2

[Raf1k1]

You completely changed what IdleLeeSiuLung said to make it look as though he was talking about all console games when in fact he was referring only to 360 games.

Not cool. I hope yout not representing us PS3 gamers

Edit: just realised IdleLee edited his to clarify he was on about the 360. Im assuming it wasnt obvious to begin with. My bad.

[M_Prime]

i have a SD 50" TV, i can't tell the diff on those 2.. once my tv dies and i buy a 40"+ HD TV then i'll see what you people are talking about first hand..

[7ero H3LL]

to many people are jealous of epic's engine, come on it f#cking blows away heavy rain's garbage engine.

http://www.gamersyde.com/st...

0:19 and 6:10 mirror's edge in HD
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

VS

http://www.gamersyde.com/st...

if you can't see how much better the kinematics are then i say you have less than half of 20/20 vision.

[aGameDeveloper]

Whenever I read an article like this, I see many retorts along the lines of "It's not the Engine, it's the lazy Developers!".

On the one hand, I agree: a motivated Developer could certainly rewrite parts of the Engine and author their content to make their game stand out from all the other UE3 games. The Developer could even make the PS3 version of their game outshine the 360 version (though that could be a LOT of work with an Engine that appears to favor the 360 architecture).

On the other hand, the way Epic markets UE3 and the way many Developers use it are the reasons why articles such as these ring so true. I will cover each point in turn.

MARKETING:

It appears that Epic's goal with the UE3 Engine was to get it in the hands of EVERYONE, in order to make it the defacto standard. They give the Engine to universities, mod developers, out-sourcers and indies very cheaply (sometimes for free). They promote the use of the Engine with the "Make Something Unreal" contests. Of course, there's nothing wrong with Epic trying to make some money.

The problem is that these types of users are unlikely to change the engine one bit, and will develop for PC almost exclusively. Thus, the Games Industry is flooded with worker bees for Epic that are experienced and comfortable developing for UE3 as it is delivered, and not often familiar with developing content that will necessarily work well on consoles (trusting the Engine to do that for them).

DEVELOPERS:

When UE3 was first available for licensing, Developers that bought it did so with the intention of creating great games. However, use of UE3 has evolved (devolved?) into the "cheap and safe" choice, for the following reasons:

1.) The price of the Engine has dropped over time.

2.) New (and thus cheaper) employees experienced with it have become available, due to Epic's marketing strategy. No need to train them up on an in-house Engine.

3.) Developers have become committed to the UE3 pipeline by using it on multiple titles (often across entire studios). Also, since they already have it on hand, they often use UE3 to prototype and shop a new game to Publishers, and then become stuck with it. "Stuck", because a good amount of work has already been done, and perhaps the Publisher dictates that the Engine not be swapped out, as a condition of picking up the game.

"Cheap and safe" is especially true if the Developer uses UE3 with little modification. He will introduce fewer bugs and the schedule is easier to predict and stick to without heavy Engine work. The number of expensive programmers needed for the game is reduced, and the ones needed for implementing game-play won't have to dig into the guts of the Engine - which is pretty risky, the way all the pieces are tied together.

The use of UE3 also makes Publishers more comfortable with picking up a title early in development Developers - especially less-experienced Developers who need a Publisher early, due to lack of resources). To the Publisher, UE3 is at least a known quantity, which helps determine risk. In some cases, the Publisher may even dictate that the Developer must use the Engine if they want their title to be picked up. This is partly why you will see a lot of movie tie-ins created using UE3 - they have to be done quick, cheap, and on-time.

All of this works out great for Epic. Unfortunately, these practices also result in a lot of "Unreal Tournament" and "Gears of War" clones, in look and feel, for which Gamers are becoming dissatisfied. It also means that any UE3 weaknesses (PS3, for example) are propagated across most of the titles that use that Engine.

CONCLUSION:

So my take is that "It IS (partly) the Engine...AND (some) lazy Developers...AND (some) risk-averse Publishers!".

[cherrypie]

Game engines evolve. There is nothing to "move on" from.

This entire article is useless fanboy blather. Uninformed baseless "opinion". Not even an "opinion" frankly, as it is totally unequipped and uninformed on the topic on which it comments.

UE3 a "failure"? Is that why Epic has so many dev. houses using it? Is the author -- and this totally worthless forum -- *actually* suggesting they know better than dozens of Dev. Houses? The same Studios that are spending hundreds of millions on projects based around UE3?

That sound like "failure"?

Or, how the failure of Gears of War? And Gears 2? Metacritic 9.3?Those "failures"? Piles of awards, exceptional reviews and 11 Million copies sold? That kind of failure?

Is the Killzone-engine a success? Killzone2 sold 55k copies last month. The total sold is less than 1.5M worldwide. That kind of "success"? Meta critic 9.1?

What we see here is the simply sour-grapes. The most obvious type. That UE3 is Xbox 360 / Windows centric, and it is the preferred middle ware for the generation, the Playstation 3 owner feels "left out". Its **NOT** Epic's fault that Sony built a confused development environment and the result is "pretty equal" (IBM's Technical Architect David Shippy's verdict, NOT my opinion, but the lead behind the Eng. Team @ IBM who did BOTH CPUs).

EDIT: HEY PORCELINGOD: "For the massively weaker Xbox 360" -- NO amount of repeating your bullshait is going to make the PS3 more powerful. It is simply NOT THE CASE. READ ABOVE. Only a victim of self-delusion or sony marketing can say such nonsense with a straight face. READ THE DAVE SHIPPY INTERVIEW!

The fact is that the PS crowd is just bitter about UE3 is sad. Simply sad.

UE3 is a MASSIVE success in fact. By any relevant measure. It is a GROWING success by any measure.

That the PS crowd has such sour grapes about UE3 is an insult to the gaming commmunity.

No amount of ignorant belly-aching, and worthless blather like this article will change that; those that **MATTER** are flocking to UE3 -- and their is no need to pretend you (author or SDF@N4G) know fracking better.

Have some humility, its embarrassing to see you people behave this way.

[outlawlife]

that screen you are touting as fake was never said to be in game, it was said to be 'in engine'

those are 2 compeltely different things, you can render anything inside of the engine

and again with the normal mapping speech, go look at the normals in games like killzone, lair, any title, they are just as prevalent as the ue3 games

every single title 360,ps3,pc uses normal maps these days

look at the new assassins creed, or even the old one...altair's clothes were modeled as flat plains and then were normal mapped into a cloth look

killzone 2? huge use of normal maps here is the blog of one of the modelers, his main tools were maya and *MUDBOX*
....why is mudbox significant? because it is a sculpting program to create NORMAL MAPS

http://www.web-design-cambr...

epic primarily uses Zbrush which is very similar to mudbox but quickly becoming the standard for high poly sculpting and normal map generation

your normal map argument doesnt hold any water when the flagship visuals for both systems employ the same exact technology

a developer on the use of normal maps in the industry specifically referencing killzone in regards to a guy attacking it for the exact same reasons you are attacking UE3

"Schreiber: The author insists on Killzones’ use of graphical cheats somehow diminish the quality or technical achievement of the game. This leads me believe that the author has never worked on in-game assets. Videogame graphics are based on industry techniques that are in essence cheats. New cheats, or techniques, is what is the basis for progression. Normal maps and bump maps are cheats techniques that most next gen games use, it is standard stuff. Normal maps itself are a technique that cheats the player into seeing depth in an object that isn’t really modeled into the in-game geometry. Also lighting models, skinning system, post process screen effects, all cheats. Techniques developed that can achieve better graphics, more realistic lighting and shadows, better FX, smarter AI are the reason why games have evolved to the point they are today, and you can have 60fps on 1080p. Seriously that’s the essence of videogame graphics. Movies employ cheats as well, they film on blue (or green) screen, they fill in scenes with 3d environments and characters, and they use miniature sets instead of blowing up a real town. Again these cheats are techniques that have been used and created to achieve a standard and also promote an evolution of the media."

normal maps are industry standard, they don't apply to just gears of war or epic games, nor just xbox 360

they apply to every single game you play on this generations consoles, so take your garbage argument somewhere where people think you know something

i've been using these exact tools for several years, unreal engine isn't faking anything, it is doing exactly the same thing everybody else is

the only difference was epic was ahead of the competition this generation and did the hard work for everybody else

when you are the lead dog people get jealous, people imitate, and eventually you are surpassed

to say ue3 is a bad thing is incredibly uneducated, had epic not been working on next gen tech before anyone else it may have been a year or so longer before we started seeing the type of visuals that we are

everything epic has done with UE3 pushed the industry further, if you actually disagree with that then i feel sorry for your naive mind

is it the best engine out there? for some it is, for some it is not

is it showing age? of course, it was the first which is why UE4 has been in development for about a year and we will probably be seeing it at the beginning of the next console cycle

saying that ue3 is weak because of normal maps is foolish and that is just a fact

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

UE3 fails if its running on a PS3, everything else it seems to run and look just fine.

[DARKKNIGHT]

lol

[likedamaster]

Outlawlife & Cherrypie

Bubbs up. You two seem to know what you're talking about.

[phosphor112]

@CherryPie - I'm sorry dude, but why are you even bringing in the sales game? It has almost no relevance to a consumer. 1 million games sold is a success for game makers, of course they would LOVE 7 million and so on, but 1 million is far from a failure. Anyway, bringin in the sales numbers only gives more for the fanboys to bash 360 about. I like the 360, but the reason why I seem so critical about the 360 is because it is being touted as something bigger and better than it actually is. Personally, I hate the sales number game. Ooo, X game sold Y ammount. So what? Furbies sold like crazy, don't mean their good.

@ Outlawlife

Yes, normal mapping is used by everyone, but the statement of you saying KZ2 used a "huge" amount is false. While Mudbox is a normal mapping program, GG used very little normal mapping. They mostly used polygons for their detail, and the deferred rendering to produce the shadows, highlights that they wanted. I can go on and on about UE3 vs KZ2 engine, but it really is pointless unless one is getting into the business and ALREADY is doing such things..otherwise..by the time you get into it, everything will be different.

[Gun_Senshi]

lol at people saying gears 2

you mean this game?

[outlawlife]

since people who clearly don't play the game are posting up screenshots, how about we post some actual shots of what the game actually looks like?

these all captured by me personally, in multiplayer

you can post all of the shots you want to make the game look as ugly as possible, anybody can do that with any game...why not play the game once and realize it looks nothing like that?

pick apart these screens as much as you want because that is what it looks like, if you are going to be an idiot be a fair one

http://img40.imageshack.us/...
http://img33.imageshack.us/...
http://img39.imageshack.us/...

[StephanieBBB]

The batman footage is all pre-rendered. Do you know how I know this? No texture pop-in. If you look at mass effect, gears 2, uncharted, kz2 they all have texture pop-in in thier cut sceenes. Thats because it's realtime and what the engine actually plays like when playing the game, which is the only important part.

Mirrors edge has some very low resolution textures and it doesn't look that great IMHO on either PS3 or Xbox 360. On PC it might be another deal but I've only seen some screengrabs from it.

Now check this out. Heavy rain club footage.

http://www.gametrailers.com...

This is realtime. Do you know how I know this? Check out the light pop-in rendering at 0:09 on the middle green ledge between the two cube formed lights. Don't tell me that this engine doesn't kick the living sh|t out of UE3. With this much stuff going on and no framrate drops at all. You have to give it props.

@outlawlife

Gears 2 is probably the best looking game on the 360. But lets just leave it at that.

[outlawlife]

i'm not even saying that it is the best on 360, i'm just saying to the folks above if they are going to post screens try posting ones that aren't hand picked/setup in odd situations to prove a point

use real time shots, from real game situations

if they want to prove a point or argue a point they should be able to do it without posting biased screens

[Gun_Senshi]

your screen shots still look ugly, and the screen shots i posted are direct feed during gameplay not bullshots.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

These are true screens of Gears of War 2, not photochopped low res pics that Gun_Senshi shows that he probably chooped himself.

IGN http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/... Notice the high rez, high quality screens? thats because these are real and don't come from a PS3 anti 360 PS3 fan forum. These screens were also taken after the level has loaded up and not "conveniently" while the texture was still loading up.

Sorry Gun_Senshi I know this bit of truth hurts, but try some neosporin and some aspirin.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

I'm glad Gears of War 2 doesn't look that crappy on my TV.. i mean seriously, where did those screens come from?

I don't think Gears of War 2 is the best 360 game (graphically), I'd put RE5, Lost Planet 2 (from what I've seen), and even Banjo Kazooie (because of it's art style) above it.

[StephanieBBB]

Sorry Jason but that first image is a bullshot. You can see this in the overkill of sharpness and detail at distance. Also look at the furthest away leg on the squid mob. It has motion blur put in after the shot was taken to make the picture have more depth.

That is not how it looks like in-game.

This is an uncharted bullshot:
http://nukoda.com/wp-conten...

Motion blur in the background where the pirates are at. Texture sharpness enhanced. Light sources added. High Anti aliasing. Camera fixed in place to capture what the artist wants you to see.

Actual in-game:
http://media.photobucket.co...

Do you see how the camera angle is far from how it is in-game? Exactly the same way as in the gears 2 one.

Check out outlawlife's screengrabs because they are acurrate to how gears 2 looks in-game.

[bullswar]

Unreal Engine 3 is outdated and should be wipped out from this planet.

[cherrypie]

"Unreal Engine 3 is outdated and should be wipped out from this planet. " Agree(10) | Disagree(4)

N4G is worthless. What absolute ignorance.

[chidori666]

totally agree ...

effects ridiculous, as glitchs of war2 games and games of 360fixme when using this engine of unreal is already getting boring and dated... look at the engine and killzone 2 will see the difference with much better effects.

[Shadow Man]

((X)) ((O)) ((<-))

[Sunny_D]

What happened shadow? Don't have anything to say? You know the article is right. Honestly, you should be mad that UE3 is being used too much. Don't you want your 360 to show more power?

[Nelson M]

Strikes Again

[gambare]

((X)) ((O)) ((<-)) ((RRoD))

[brandonk129]

its an overused average engine, and they seriously need to make another one. no more generic gears of war games, they are terrible when compared with uncharted/mgs4/killzone 2.

[butbutbuttehcell]

Hmmm but your idol David Jaffe said Gears of War 2 had the best graphics this gen last year...are you sure you know better than him? He's a loyal PS3 fan like you so why would he say that? Let me tell you - cos he's not a biased gimp like that majority of this site. But he is an idiot, and a f**kin ugly one at that.

[n to the b]

the only fail is this article. blame 'lazy' devs, not an inanimate piece of software or even that software's creators. having "Epic's Fail" appear in the title is BS.

[n to the b]

of course that didn't stop the sfags from coming in here and braying like a bunch of j@ck@sses, "Epic sucks, Unreal sucks, 360 sucks!!"

and look at Shadow Man's disproportionate amount of disagrees. obviously he's being tracked and nailed with blind disagrees, why would all the other comments' agrees/disagrees here come no where close to 16??? what a sad sad bunch you 360 haters are.

please go kill yourselves now.

[ifhd]

its time for Unreal Engine 3 to die.

[YeOldeGamer]

This article SHOULD be titled Unreal Engine 3 : A Sony Fanboy's Whiny Tale.

[die_fiend]

lol my thoughts exactly. I mean, before killzone 2, wasn't Gears of War 2 the best looking game this gen? I'm pretty sure it looks better than MGS4, if not show me a screenshot proving otherwise. Cos I thought Gears 2 looked immense and I'm currently playing MGS for the first time and can't see how the graphics are better. They're definitely some of the best but I don't think snakes face looks better than Marcus's. Killzone 2 is definitely the best look game this gen, haven't quite finished it yet but it's got incredible graphics which pretty much shame all other games so far. The lens flare is so good. And the people who say it's bland and has no colour really need to be quiet and play it cos it's a very colourful game! More so than Gears 2. However, it has copied quite a lot of things from Gears like getting split up from your team, and jumping on a moving train and fighting your way through lol and many other similarities. Still, UE3 is clearly a really good engine and the people who think it's not are fanboys

[Sunny_D]

edit:
Wrong

[thewhoopimen]

How about unreal 3: the xbots ONLY retort? what is it now 2009? Unreal 3 was cool in 2005. You guys sure live in the past.

@4.1 nope. Uncharted came out right after geow1 and blew both geow1 and geow2. Unlike you i've actually played and beat all said games above.

[Sunny_D]

Well I believe that Uncharted Drake's Fortune was the best looking game along with Heavenly Sword at the time they came out. It had so much color. Also, Gears 2 being the best looking game at the time is your opinion. But, MGS4 does have better graphics; The awards for best graphics aren't there for nothing. Don't forget possibly the most realistic graphics on consoles would be Gran Turismo 5 prologue. That's just a demo too. LBP has one of the best lighting and textures of any game to date. And of course, Killzone 2 holds the crown now. Infamous has the best sandbox graphics to date. so yeah. UE3 is old. 360 gamers should complain about their games using the same damn thing.

[lokiroo420]

how about this, unreal engine: bargain bin gaming?

[Bathyj]

Doesn't bother me any. 90% of my gaming is done on PS3 and all our good games have propriety engines built for the hardware they are on. Not "One size fits all" middleware.
XB only owners might like that wet plastic look but it just doesn't cut it on PS3.

PS
Suunyd
Finally, someone besides me recognises that LBP has EASILY the best textures ever. You can zoom so close in creation mode and still wood looks like wood, rock looks like rock and so on. The only other game that comes close is Uncharted.

[shazui123]

mgs4 gfx> GEOW2 gfx
proof =
GEOW2 - http://farm4.static.flickr....

MGS4-

http://z.about.com/d/playst...

[lokiroo420]

haha, claiming graphical prowess and getting owned, then neglecting the glitch fest that is gears use of the unreal engine, as Tim and Eric would say, "Great job!"

[Nathan123]

Uncharted 1 (yes..don't even bring 2 in the comparison cause it's out of this world) beats the crap out of Gears in graphics. Just look at the screen shots (in the article). The detailing in Uncharted was beyond Gears. Just look at Marcus's ear in the first screen shot.. Looks as if even the muscles in the ear are growing.. and then look at the Drakes' picture.. Yes it's real time.

And please don't even start comparing MGS4 with it. Gears is just shades of brown... where as MGS4 uses all colors (from snowy region to jungle to war zone in desert kind...). It doesn't have any pop in issue and the texture seem much better. UE3 cannot handle other colors well... Just look at games like Mirrors Edge... The white seems soo bland and washed off.

In short, if you want to create a yellowish or brown game, then make it on UE3. It will look as stunning as Gears.

[die_fiend]

Right so those screenshots - tha main character model at a reasonable distance compared to an enemy model literally inside the camera. That's fair! I've no reason to be biased but I just can't see how MGS4 is better than GEOW2 in terms of graphics. MGS4 has loads of aliasing on a decent sized screen...although I am speaking to the biggest PS3-bumming collective on the planet by posting on this site. It's like telling Microsoft that Sony are better, they just won't accept it even if it's true.

Does someone want to get the main character models at the same distance and compare instead of that ridiculous one provided by the inbred above? Y did David Jaffe who clearly bums PS say that Gears 2 had the best graphics then? Surely you lot idolise him so he must have credibility.

@ below - Yeah it does, y did Jaffe who loves PS say so? 360 lurkers?I've got both and I haven't touched my 360 since I got a PS3...but like I said, I can't see how MGS4 graphics exceed Gears. I'd like a decent screenshot proving otherwise.

[vhero]

hahahaha gears looks better than MGS4?? hahahaha thats soo funny god you 360 lurkers really know how to make me laugh. Without the unreal engine the 360 would be screwed this gen as Gears made the 360 what it is today like Halo made the first Xbox. The engines still got plenty of life and uses nearly all the power of the ps3 and had the capability to use ALL the power of the 360 and all of its potential so why use anything else when you can get full potential out of the box??

[JD_Shadow]

Yeah, of course you would say that. It's the usual retort if you got hurt by what they said. Why is that the only answer you guys have to articles like this?

Thing is, if you read it (which I doubt you did), you will see that they said that the engine held back the 360 games, as well (I'll let you read it because this site deserves the hits by pointing it out, even though you probably won't).

I've been saying it for months now that the UE3 engine is VERY outdated and very overrated (and before anyone says it, yes, the article DID bring up Mirror's Edge as the only one that actually didn't have as much issues with it using the engine). It really needs to be killed (along with Valve's Source Engine).

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

http://www.kineticninja.blo...

http://www.kineticninja.blo...

Uncharted 1 is graphically leagues better than Gear 1 and 2.

[ultimolu]

...I have tissues if you need one because anyone who says Gears looks better than MGS4 needs their eyes examined. ;~;

[Marcelles25]

http://farm4.static.flickr....

http://z.about.com/d/playst...

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3...

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3...

http://farm4.static.flickr....

http://farm4.static.flickr....

http://farm4.static.flickr....

Did i realy have to do that

@below
made me laugh so hard

[Torch]

"...Cos I thought Gears 2 looked immense and I'm currently playing MGS for the first time and can't see how the graphics are better..."

Further to careful inspection, I'm hard pressed to agree with you that yes, Gears 2 does indeed have the graphical edge over MGS.

But you've gotta admit that MGS nonetheless looks pretty darn good for a game that's over a decade old.

[Nathan123]

Whatever Die_Fiend... If MGS4 wasn't good looking enough for you, Killzone 2 took the crown (as you agree) from Gears 2 (or MGS4 IMO) in terms of graphics. Gears 2 is a great looking game, but just is too monotonous in it's color pallet. And that is what I am emphasizing why UE3 is crap. It cannot handle colors like Green and White without them bleeding off the edges. Also, the pop ins, texture problems (again see the Gears picture in article... look at the back..), frame rate issues and glitches all are clear signs that the engine has reached it's old age.

Only good looking textures and light don't make a game great looking. Factors such as FPS lags or pop in issues or glitches... All contribute in graphics section. And that is why I feel MGS4 is better looking cause it doesn't have any pop ins.. nor does it have any frame rate issues and neither does it have any glitches... The same cannot be said for Gears my friend.Also, the color pallet used in MGS4 tells that the engine is leagues ahead compared to UE3. Anyways it's personal opinion... In terms of gameplay and story MGS4 kicks some Gears ass...

Oh ya for comparisons just look at any of the above links posted by the commenters. Even UC1 was better looking (and the screen shots can be compared at similar zoom in modes). At least games like MGS4 and UC1 don't resort to blurring the draw distances in order to keep the frame rates up.
I might be an inbred according to you, but at least my eyes are working well unlike yours.

[die_fiend]

oh at last a sensible response. Thanks Nathan, it's about time I got one. good points about pop in and a few glitches that don't happen in MGS4, I didn't really factor those in I just thought of a general glitch free situation for both. But when Gears isn't glitching it looks just as good. Do you really think Gears 2 is monotonous in it's palette? It's a lot more colourful thank 1...I thought it was quite colour, but yeah it's only really one colour at a time.
U say MGS doesn't have frame rate issues, I don't know what you mean by that. It's certainly not stable, you can tell when it's suddenly gone up to 60 and back, but it never drops below 30 that I've noticed which Gears does at times so I suppose it's better in that respect but it's not locked down which I kinda expected. I'm only on Act 2 on MGS4 and it doesn't seem that colourful, maybe that will have changed by the time I've played more.
"If MGS4 wasn't good looking enough for you" It's definitely good enough, it's certainly a really good looking game, I just think Gears looks a bit better when it's not glitching like you mentioned. From all the stuff I read I was expecting MGS4 to blow me away and I can't see how it's better. Killzone 2 definitely took the crown from any other games, shat around the rim and put it back on their heads IMO. I mean they're just incredible and it totally lived up to the hype surrounding graphics, and the gameplay's pretty damn tight to match. I can't wait to see what happens with the PS3 cos I do think the 360 is probably close to being maxed out unfortunately, whereas the early PS3 exclusives look damn sweet so imagine in like 2 years.

btw I never said you were an inbred, cos at least your comments are rational
So you don't think Dom's face has more detail than Snakes and Drakes. You talk about 360 having plastic looking faces, just LOOK at Drakes. It's as shiny as a new mirror. Is Dom's? And look at Snakes shoulder. It's so blocky! I have no reason to be biased as I own both consoles, but on this site you just can't reason with the majority of people cos they're actually in love with a console lol

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

Owning both consoles doesn't automatically make you unbiased.

[Nathan123]

Ok so we have a neutral ground.... KZ2 pwns MGS4 and Gears 2 in graphics... Uncharted 2 will pwn KZ2 in graphics.... Heavy Rain will pwn it in graphics and finally GOD OF WAR 3 will pwn everything in graphics (well at least we can hope for)..

Die_Fiend: btw... Dude you have just reached Act 2.. there are 3 more ACTS left and all in different places (SPOLER ALEART**:from snowy Shadow Mozes to Jungle terrain to modern city to a battle in Cruiser in Act 5.... al use different terrain...SPOILER ENDS**)
You are just getting started. Just wait for the awesome boss fights. I don't believe you are commenting after only playing the first 2 Acts... No wonder you think Gears is better looking.

[7ero H3LL]

(Microsoft Xbox 360)

that comparison is compleat bull sh!t.....using BULLET SHOTS as a comparison, G@Y.

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/obje...

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/obje...

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/obje...

[Oner]

^^^ How about some Uncharted pics right off of regular peoples HDTV's? ~

http://img.photobucket.com/...

http://i225.photobucket.com...

[DARKKNIGHT]

what are yopu talking about?

its pretty clear that the gun in the upper right hand corner of the gow2 pick owns everything on the ps3 graphically.

[360DownINflames]

But yea its held back games because people are trying to do to much with it.

Its a shooter engine, no more.

This gen their quality did seem to drop.

[i3eyond the Circle]

The Unreal Engine3 is just a poor excuse for developers not creating an engine that implements there games art styles to the way they see fit.

1st Party Ps3 developers help each other in creating games that can match target renders and even concept art.

Just think if Bioware created an engine that can perfectly render a SciFi world without the horrid texture load ins and framerate drops the potential mass effect could have..

These days developers are just trying to get games off of the shelves because like any other industry people have to get paid...it's there careers and time and effort has a limit.

Sony see's this and they contribute to us gamers slow cooked titles with grade A quality to let us know that not every game will be limited because of time and budget.

Rid the UE3

[red2tango]

This is exactly true. I read that Killzone 2 had a collaboration with Santa Monica studio and other studios helping each other. Even Insomniac offered help. Hell Infamous and Sony created seperate engines that are free for developers to use.

Asking for help is never a bad thing and I wish more developers would swallow their pride and try to make a good game. I'm sorry but UE3 is just overused and abused. Sure Epic can make a game on it, but most of the other games don't look as good as engines like CryEngine 2, Killzone 2 engine and the Ratchet and Clank one.

I say kill UE3 and make UE4 more compatible towards all consoles.

[PirateThom]

Guerilla got a lot of help from various Sony studios. Santa Monica did a lot of work with them, Insomniac did a lot of the AI work. The engine and game came out fantastic.

PhyreEngine seems to be a popular engine for PSN (I'm guessing it's free to use), Flower, Mars, Savage Moon all use or are going to use it. DiRT and Race Drive: Grid also use a modified version of it.

[NMC2007]

Wow, it seems like everytime I come here there is always something stupid being posted, this truly is a stupid site.

So let's see here, Epic's Unreal Engine 3, an engine that has powered some very great games this gen, an engine which is upgraded every year, an engine which lots of devs seem to love using, a very very successful engine............ hmmmmm *looks at thread title*

-_-

I don't bother reading the article because the title is too stupid.

If at E3 the engine upgrade doesn't do anything significant then devs will move on, Epic hasn't moved on because this is their engine of this generation, I am sure UE4 will be announced for next gen with incredible upgrades and tech just like UE3 at the start of this gen, so I wish people would just STFU about Epic's engine already.

You want Epic's engine to go away then talk to the devs who keep licensing it from them.

-_- JFC....

[sofocado]

Is time to use another engine. Evolution Engine

[DevastationEve]

dark sector's engine? yeah that game had some nice graphics. it was also called the sector engine at one time.

i'd like to see what they can come up with some time soon.

[KeenanTheSavage]

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Unreal Engine 3 had it's time, and now it's time for it to just die down a little bit.

[LinuxGuru]

The only thing the Unreal Engine can produce is good looking particle effects (although most newer engines have particle physics which is just sweet) and pretty awesome textures.

Everything else...it's beaten over the head with a stick. Animation, lighting, draw distance, game effects...all surpassed quite some time ago.

[mrkeith]

yeah i agree they totally need to update this engine

[TheColbertinator]

I don't care too much for Unreal Engine 3 apart from Gears of War and Mirrors Edge.However those videos showing off MT Framework 2.0(Lost Planet 2),Id Tech 5(Rage)and Crysis on consoles(CRYengine 3) all look very impressive

[Sunny_D]

I agree steven. Capcom's engine has been producing some of the best looking multiplatform graphics this generation. All the games that use it have their own style, so none look too similar to each other like UE3 with it's plastic looking characters.

[butbutbuttehcell]

Speaking of plastic looking characters, did you ever play Uncharted? Let me guess, I'm wrong. Take a look at a screen at tell me that their faces aren't as shiny as your momma's fat @$$

[gtafan]

Agreed every single game that comes out of this engine. Looks like Unreal Tournament correct me if I am wrong but just like Call of Duty it's for suckers that don't know any better. Haha.

[Xi]

last remnant
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3...

mirror's edge
http://manvshorse.files.wor...

Wheelman
http://cache.kotaku.com/ass...

The agency
http://loot-ninja.com/wp-co...

lost odyssey
http://xbox360media.ign.com...

liesure suit larry
http://www.softsnab.ru/imag...

fatal interia
http://www.videogamesblogge...

borderlands
http://www.borderlandsthega...

[patterson]

Unreal Engine 3 = poopy

[Foxgod]

Even tho awesome games where released on the unreal engine 3:

Mass effect 1 + 2
Gears of war 1 + 2
Unreal tournament.

The unreal engine indeed didnt deliver for other games what it promised, having said that, Epic still earned buttloads of cash with the unreal engine 3.

[Sunny_D]

Here you are again talking about Sales and money. This article is talking about graphics, but i guess you wouldn't care? :/

[Foxgod]

The games i mentioned have kickass gfx.
Also, i didnt mention game sales, i mentioned the licenses that Epic sold to game developer studio's.

To Epic, the Unreal engine is a success, Epic wont say to themselves, oh our engine is such a fail because we made loads of cash with it.

Instead Epic will say to themselves, we had some pretty good success with our engine, now lets improve it further to ensure a steady incoming in the future as well.

But hey, i suppose to you low sales equals success.

[OneShotThrill]

lets not turn this into a PS3 vs 360 sh*tstorm again. As an owner of both consoles i would love to see the UE3 be seriously updated or put out of use. it has given us some great games that were good looking but its seriously overused and getting outdated.

[Foxgod]

E3 is coming, last years updates to the Ue3 on E3 where pretty underwhelming, hopefully they will make it up this year, and show some awesome updates.

[ShabzS]

that the unreal engine needs a major over haul.. its probably one of the few engines with major late texture popins...

although the water physics in the latest updates seen in gears 2 were quite frankly amazing... really one of the best water physics i've seen in gaming...

[Salvadore]

It comes as a surprise to me that a lot of developers relied heavily on the UE3 even though it wasn't optimized for the PS3. Titles after titles were delay and Sony had to jump on board to help out Epic Games with the source codes, which is totally unacceptable.

[Foxgod]

Sony never helped out epic games, why would epic games need help with their own engine ?
Is the other way around, developers couldn't pull off to get the unreal engine running on the ps3.

Epic themselves proved with Unreal tournament that the unreal engine is optimized for the ps3.
For most developers the complexity of the ps3 was enough pain already, a complex engine on top of it made it quite a hassle to develop UE3 games on the ps3.

[PirateThom]

http://www.thegamergene.com...

Sony already had a dedicated team to assist developers, Epic took advantage of it for the good of all developers using Unreal Engine.

[Digital Commando]

It's just old, wait till Id Tech 5 and Cry Engine 3 people

[cherrypie]

Yes. Tech Demos of upcoming video-game technology is impressive.

Do you _also_ think that UE 3.x and UE4 are not _also_ going to be impressive?

UE is in _constant_ development. Do you people even understand software?

A project started -today- with a UE license will use a UE different from Gears 1 FFS.

Just stop, you people are a laughing stock.

[Ps_alm3k]

to make a new engine..(my Opinion)
Lazy as devs!!!

[YeOldeGamer]

...they ARE making a new engine, dumbass. They started laying the groundwork for UE4, shortly after they finished UE3. That's what Epic DOES. UE4 will likely debut on the next XBOX...maybe on PC a bit sooner. UE3 3.0 will be shown at E3, just like 2.0 was shown last year.

Try to refrain from commenting, if you're just going to post stupid sh!t. :/

[DYD]

I'll explain why he's wrong.
he's blaming bad looking games on the engine when it is often the art of the actual game.

he's are failing to factor in the fact that each game has to have diffuse maps, normal maps, specular maps, emissive maps, shaders, and ambient lighting all made from scratch and set up before it even reaches an engine.
he mentions things like "rampant pop in issue with textures loading in late on characters and the environments" when that has nothing to do with the engine, but with the compression of the disc to fit the game on a DVD and "that weird haze that most UE3 games have around objects in the background" which is just post production bloom that can be turned OFF when making the game (Lost Odyssey for example doesnt use it)

Many of the issues he's talking about are hardware issues not 'engine-related'. Like for example a lot of the screenshot differences are because of the way the hardware relates to the texture maps. They could look relative identical if the game artists set them up equally but doing so takes a long time and isnt cost effective.

Also the Xbox 360 has hardware based scaling of images to scale images to whatever resolution is needed on the fly. Since this is done in a dedicated chip this leaves the Xbox 360 CPU and GPU free to work on the game. The PS3 requires that all graphics scaling to be done in software by the CPUs. Granted it has a lot of CPU power but hardware based graphics scaling is a much more elegant way of rendering 3d images at multiple resolutions. This is another reason why ps3 has 'glitchy' textures in games which has nothing to do with the 'engine'

[Xi]

I still feel mirror's edge is the best looking game this generation. And I honestly don't care whether people agree or not.

Not only that, Mirror's edge had no texture pop up, none of that haze around objects, and one of the most colourful and bright colour pallets of games this gen.

The unreal engine is only a tool, it can be heavily modified (like in mass effect) or it can used straight off the line. The developers that know what they're doing will always produce a top quality title whether or not they use in house or unreal. Developers always have the ability to use custom lighting models or throwing in seperate middleware such as light sprint, they can implement procedurally generated texture if they wish, create custom shaders etc.

On a side note, developing games is exspensive and unfortunately some developers arn't first party, and don't have the ability to develop an in house engine such as first party sony, ms, nintendo. Some developers just don't have the funds, both in time and money to modify an engine to the same degree as large developers. It's not the unreal engine's fault that people seem to all make dark, dirty, brown 'realistic' games, that just happens to be the most popular at the moment.

[keysy420]

totally agree i think the engine is way too over used and it benefits MS. a new propriety system should be used to make games when it comes to exclusive and not just one for all exclusives

[DevastationEve]

the sony fanboy defense came in to make sure this article was receiving hits.

it's funny though that they diss the engine and don't even know the first thing about one. how can you guys diss something you know little about?

if you all REALLY knew your stuff you'd know that the game engine is the TRANSPARENT part of the game, you never see it, i mean a ue3-based jrpg will look like any other. the engine is just the source code, it doesn't have any ethnic preference (besides the character set for encoding, lol).

as for those who say it's time for something new you've basically been blind for quite a while. not every developer uses ue3. capcom's mt framework 2.0 for instance already blows away anything i've seen from ue3 based games, proving that x360 has yet to be maxed out. and monolith's lithtech engine that powers FEAR shows off some pretty wicked stuff too, even today!

when a game stutters or has poor performance or otherwise just looks like it's gotten some miles on its tires the developers can further extend the life of the engine by making optimizations and revisions. ue3.5 was the revision employed for gears 2, specifically built and optimized for x360 hardware. of course the hardware never changes so there's only so much you squeeze out extra.

clicking disagree will automatically donate 10 cents to those poor desperate souls lay awake at night, crying over their purchase of a ps3...sad, i know

[Foxgod]

Amen.
I laugh when people say stuff like, omgeh, the ue3 engine is the suck, because of the animation and stuff, ignorant bunch.

Also the updates made gears 2 run better, and look better then its predecessor.
Bioware also already stated that Mass effect 2 has no pop ins or lag like the previous one did.
This is also thanks to the updates applied to the unreal engine.

[raztad]

WTF are u talking about?

I see here a several comments from 360 fans dissing the UE3 engine. Ps3 owners are not concerned about UE3, cause first/second party ps3 titles are made using in-house engines. If anything, it is worrisome multiplats titles are lagging behind cause UE3 limitations.

On the other hand, Batman:AA is using the UE3 and it looks very good. Is it just the art style? Could it be the best looking game on the xbox so far?

[DevastationEve]

let's also say that a game stuttering or having issues is also a sign of rushed/canned development. some of the better devs out there will keep their games in development, working out bugs and inconsistencies until it's perfect. this is where you can respect guys like kojima productions and bungie. for halo3 bungie hired an entire building of beta testers and was said to have started with around 50000 known bugs, which they worked down to a tiny fraction (800 i think, it's hard to make games bug free) before being satisfied.

it's funny, but i passed by an old arcade machine the other day and saw how smooth and stable it played. 60fps! usually it'll be a tradeoff between framerate or graphics.

edit at raztad:

yeah i know ue3 had some issues with multiplats. which isn't supposed to be the case, but we are talking two very different platforms for development. it's the devs fault for not working out the kinks. not the engine's fault. a good dev can make their game the way it's supposed to be, the rushed devs just want to start pulling in sales numbers and therefore DO rush things just to go multiplat. but can you blame them, i mean they're all competing for sales!

this is what i noted once, that developers who use ue3 to make let's say a 3rd person tactical shooter along the lines of gears have to compete WITH gears! if gears is already better, they basically just shoved some money epic's way for an engine and then made something subpar with it.

so i agree that licensing engines shouldn't be as wide spread as is the case with ue3. everybody should just man up and get to crackin on their own stuff.

[JD_Shadow]

1. Did you REALLY need to say "the sony fanboy defense came in to make sure this article was receiving hits."? That kinda killed a LOT of your cred there. That basically tells me that anything you would say afterwards is to spite anyone that disagrees with your view. That line of "SDF" and whatever other variable there is OF that phrase is just as overused as the UE3 engine. So does stuff like this at the end: "clicking disagree will automatically donate 10 cents to those poor desperate souls lay awake at night, crying over their purchase of a ps3...sad, i know". Is this really necessary? Why does everything HAVE to be a PS3 vs. 360 argument? And why are you scared of disagrees, and why are you trying to say that we somehow NEED to justify our purchase of a PS3 to anyone? Are you saying that anyone that buys one is a fanboy? What are you trying to do there? Oh, and this site DESERVES the damn hits because this is a well thought out, well-written article that says a lot of things that we already know and that you should already know.
2. The article gave certain examples via screenshots that might prove your point false if you had just read the article. Bioshock is a good game, don't get me wrong, but I've had times where the game just locks up on me for no reason, with me having to restart my PS3 by turning it off in the back. Completely uncalled for and shouldn't happen. Why doesn't any other game do this on my PS3 (even other games that employ the use of the UE3 engine)? Granted, ME used the PS3 as the lead console and thus they were able to work out the kinks of it, and I haven't played MK vs. DC enough yet from me renting it from Gamefly enough to say that they lock up on me like that, too. But it seems imperative that it's ONLY Bioshock (so far) that does that. And Bioshock uses the UE3 engine.
3. Let's not forget the mess that was The Last Remnant, and the idiot that was behind it: http://www.gamegazette.net/...
4. Do you not WANT the 360 games to get better?
5. I've been reading some of the responses to this article by people defending it, and I have to say, they seem to only be defending it because: "Honestly now, UE3 has constantly slapped Sony’s face this generation. There was the constant delay of multiplatform games that used UE3 on the PS3. This gave the 360 a de facto timed exclusive, and also branded PS3 with the nickname, The Delaystation 3. Then when said multiplatform games arrived, they looked and ran worse on the PS3. UE3 made many gamers doubtful, some still are, of Sony’s claim that the PS3 is more powerful than the 360, because the majority of games that use UE3 run better on 360." --This article.

Basically, we're being fanboys of game ENGINES now.

[Droid Control]

I mean, look how different Gears looks to mirror's edge and bioshock...

The real problem is developers being lazy. I can understand why they use it, they can concentrate more on the art, and less on the engineering, its just a shame that by and large, that philosophy doesn't seem to be working out...

[MetalGearBear]

unreal engine 3= epic fail
NICE!!! blame M$.

[Nelson M]

It Must be Good
Right ?

[shazui123]

never heard "queefy B" before xD hes a real douche. almost as bad as Aaron Greenturd

[Karum]

Saying things like the custom engine made for Halo looks better than UE3 is farcical. Gears easily looks better than Halo 3 yet hos reason for not using Gears a sa comparison was because it is a TPS and not a FPS? gtfo lol

Now whilst I agree that a custom built, proprietary engine created around the hardware of one console will always outshine a cross platform middleware engine, Hao 3's engine is a terrible example, the game is not only not as good looking as Gears but isn't even in an HD resolution. Not knocking the quality of Halo 3 as a game, this is about the engines used rather than the games but I think the UE3 has easily outshone w/e engine they used on Halo 3.

[OneShotThrill]

I own a ps3 and currently have maybe 2 titles that use UE3. Just about all the rest are using unique in house engines. My 360 library on the other hand almost half of them are using the UE3. Like i said b4 this isnt about ps3 or 360. this is about either devs pushing the engine better or major updates coming to the engine so it can be refreshed. Dont we all want graphical and artistic improvments or are you just gonna ride the UE3 because its used more frequently on the 360. Plz just grow up.

[Xi]

Because in my collection of about 15 xbox games I have like 4 games that use ut3, 2 of which were made by epic. Maybe you're buying to many multi-platform games for your 360, you should buy some on your ps3 too.

[specialguest]

I've always thought that was done that way on purpose. I didn't know the engine was forcing that effect.

[Ps_alm3k]

I would choke hold that mother Efin UE3!!
Put that son of B@tch to sleep.

Then again, I'm not a wrestler, so its all just an opinion.

[KampferZeon]

would be to hope the UE3 to last for another 5 years.

The PS3 has already moved on towards a more dynamic approach where the 1st party studios write their own engine for their projects while sharing know-hows and techniques in their engine.

There are no AAA games on PS3 now or in the future that will use Unreal Engine or anything from Epic for the matter.

The longer the exclusive games on 360 kept using UE3 , the bigger the gap between the quality of the 360 generics and the ever improving PS3 exclusives.

p.s. Given Epic's notorious service as a Middle-ware provider, I don't think any other 3rd party studio will want to use the UE4 engine.

[raztad]

I definitely agree about major PS3 games (exclusives) being on in-house engines but I would want to see multiplats titles improve as well.

Lets look at Batman:AA and Bioshock1. Both based on UE3 and both looking, IMO, evenly good.

I got some hopes with Batman:AA, game looks very good. I think developers put in good use the UE3 in that game. Probably is just the art-style, probably they heavily modified the UE3 in order to get B:AA run smooth and good looking, but whatever the case, B:AA is looking like one multiplat title to get, if the gameplay is really awesome.

On the other hand, Bioshock1 was a looker but the next iteration is not improving. Why is it staled?

[KampferZeon]

I think most prominent 3rd party console developers like Square, Sega, Capcom have their own multi platform engine in house. So Multi-platform titles are also improving.

Plus there are other engines available in the market at the moment, we have big names like Cry-Tek, Id, but we also have small players developing engine. Even Sony has a multi-platform engine called PhyreEngine available for everyone.

The guys who are really stuck using Unreal Engine are like the Epic and Bioware guys who have to produce Console-PC multi-platform games. For these guys, they have no choice but to use Unreal.
Unfortunately for 360 gamers, Epic and Bioware produce most of the exclusives on 360.

As to why the Unreal engine is not improving dramatically, I think there are some problems with UE3 inherited in the design of the Unreal series, but also people seems to really think the 360 and PC are really look alike, but the 360 is actually nothing similar to PC.

First the 360 does not have system ram, the CPU and the GPU shares the Graphics RAM link to the graphics chip, Also the 360 has a daughter die with the 10MB edram. If you have been following the technical stuff, you will often hear the 10MB edram is the design bottleneck. Everything like the, resolution, Amount of AA, and lighting effect is decided by the 10MB limit.

I don't know if it's true, but to me Microsoft make it more program friendly, Microsoft has made it very hard to fully utilise 100%.

[madjedi]

I guess for the people that disagreed with you reading is a challenge or didn't even read it at all.

I agree, if the 360's exclusives continue to use a multiplatform engine such as the u3e and not the ps3 1st party exclusives route.

Aka a custom engine designed only for that system, it will continue to lose ground to the ps3 1st party games with custom built engines.

Having said that i thought re5 looked damn good for a multiplat, that game is definitly up there visually. Re5 and lost planet 2(haven't seen it yet myself) are proof that the 360 is not a slouch when it comes to hardware.

But it needs more than just the u3e, it needs a/couple dedicated engines designed specifically for the 360 to get the most out of the hardware.

As for the reason i don't want the u3e around for another 5 yrs, i want variety, i want games to look different. Different styles, atmospheres, lots of different colors.

The thing i don't want is the lionshare of games this gen to use the exact same engine or 2 engines and all the games start looking to similar to each other.

[siyrobbo]

unreal engine 3 has been great, its starting to show its age a little now though. The competetion is going to to get fierce with the release of the new RAGE engine from ID (ID Tech whatever number its at now) and cryengine 3

[ultimolu]

Time for next-gen technology.

[Xi]

We would need next gen hardware.

[JD_Shadow]

WOOOOOSH!

That went RIGHT over your head, did it?

[Xi]

My retort completey went right over your head didn't it?

But then again, judging by your post history, not to mention your inabilty to quote a simple idiomatic expression, my guess is simple math usually goes right over your head too.

[XDF]

When I play a game I can care less of what engine it is on if it is a great game and look good. Bioshock, Lost Odyssey, Mirror's edge, Mass Effect and many other games used the UE3 and it has produced some really great result.

Oh, KZ2 was built on a new godly looking engine, and it still scored lower than Gears and sold way less. 58K in April NPD, LMFAO, common, superior graphics engine/harware is not everything, it is how good a game is to play that suck people in to buy and play the game. You people need to know your role and shut up and just be happy that we have great games available on the PS360, regardless of these BS engine debate/I have more exclusives crap.

[JD_Shadow]

Why am I wondering what orifice you pulled THOSE so-called "facts" from?

Seriously, where do we FIND these people?

EDIT: So...umm...since you're looking at me like that, can I ask you, then, where's your links and numbers and facts that back up any of your claims? Have none?

Hmm...maybe you're right. You should be looking at me, because I'm apparently talking to ANOTHER brick wall.

[XDF]

Oh N4G of course, DAH!!!!! Yea, Darkpower, I am looking at you..

[XDF]

is this the number you are looking for?
http://news.softpedia.com/n...

Can you stop your editing now since you just got ownz...LMFAO

[JD_Shadow]

Dude, EVERYONE knew KZ2 slowed in April. That's not what I was talking about at all! You said that it sold less. Read: it sold less across the entire time it was out. You're only focused on one month and counting it as its entire sales figures. What happened to the two days and whole month out of MARCH, as well?

And why do you care about this, anyway? Don't you WANT 360 games to not be held back by a middleware engine? Do you not want developers to be innovative? It's a wonder why you're defending this engine so much! Agenda, perhaps?

@Xi above since I have no more bubbles (give me some, please): You do realize she was talking about new tech in gaming engines, not platforms, right? You CAN get more out of the current platforms if you are not held back by the same goddamn engine.

I don't expect you to care about any of that, though!

[XDF]

You should be the PR for Sony...First, you asked me for solid numbers and I gave you the solid numbers to backed up the pathetic April sale of KZ2. Then you go around spinning and take Feb and March sales in consideration. Ok, so you have 3 months and KZ2 sold less than 680K..Fable 2 sold almost 800K in less than a month in NA. That is just bad anyway you spinned it for the greatest looking console game of all time, because graphics is THAT IMPORTANT.

Who gives a rats about what engine a game is based on...As long as it plays good, fun, and not wait an eternity..cough..GT5..cough, then it is fine with me. That is like saying Paramount should delayed Transformers 2 because in two years the CGI will be better and will look better...You see what I am saying.

[die_fiend]

Graphics are pretty important on this site tho. That's cos Killzone 2 came out and had the best graphics giving PS3 the upper hand. Before the PS3 had the best graphics it was all about gameplay on this site lol. But yeah Bioshock is probably my favourite game this gen and isn't even close to having the best graphics.

[XDF]

Yup, L4D, Halo 3, Battlestations Pacific (yes, Battlestations), and Lost Odyssey are some of my favorite games...and guess what, the graphics are good enough for what it is. If graphics was everything, then Neo Geo, 3DO, and the original xbox would have won the console war for their respective generation.

[H0rned]

You two should know that a good engine/graphic helps to create a better atmosphere, effects, massive environments and a more enjoyable next-gen experience these days! It depends on how the developer uses the engine, if you use the UE 3 engine like some Developer *cough*...*chough* than graphics CANT BE IMPORTANT TO YOU! It is naturally that the graphic is only a piece of the entire cake, which is filled with the other pieces (Gameplay, Story, Sound...). I bet with you, that you dont like to play worse/flat/buggy/unfinished/cr appy-looking games for a long time! SO THE ENGINE/GRAPHIC IS IMPORTANT! Thats how I see it.

[kwyjibo]

It's as simple as that.

Studios are well versed in the engine, Epic provide excellent support, great tools, and it has become a standard. Studios can cut out costly engine development, focus on design, and hit both HD consoles.

If you don't like UE3, then there's nothing you can really do about it but wait for the competition to arrive. With CryEngine 3 and idTech 5 up and coming, it'll keep engine development at the forefront and stop any complacency from settling in.

[H0rned]

Than you are completly wrong! Open your eyes and take a look at Capcoms MT Framework engine, than you will see, which is really the best crossplatform engine out there.

[kwyjibo]

MTFramework isn't available for third party licensing though.

[Sibs]

take the 's out of the title and I agree. It's fine if two or three games use it, but nowadays every single game is UE3 and it's starting to get very annoying.

[Xbots play games]

Fan-Bloggers and F-Boys have the greatest memory loss when it come to the Unreal Engine..

This Engine made it possible for some of the greatest games this generation. If developers had better options for their games, then it is obvious they would have used them.

Do you think the mass majority of gamers gave a d@mn what engines when they played Bioshock or the Gears series?

Absolutely not..it is only when F-boys and websites waste energy splitting screenshot hairs that actually care. Is their a more successful middleware out there..if it is show me.

Does it fail because it delivered the DESIRED results for the development cyle of their projects or do we get to the heart of the matter..this is only about the PS3 and bragging rights.

Games cast money and do not take 5 minutes to make. Gears 1 and 2 had a two year turn around cycle..but easily delivered the goods. Do companies always have the Killzone 2 development luxury to build an engine and wait 4 years before it's released?

The funniest part about this generation of gaming pundits is the generational shift of graphics over gameplay. The old head purist gamers would eat you alive if you cited that a graphically weak 2D game, wasn't as good it's 3D competitors that had flooded the market. Fast forward and CLEARLY games like Gears and Bioshock look amazing..but two months after Gears 2 came out..they said it was ugly??

Thank GOD..the BIZZARO internet world means nothing to the OFFLINE gaming consumer..or it would be the games that failed..and not this article..which is the only thing that fails in the long run

[likedamaster]

Way to shove L4D avatar in their faces(ps3fanboys). LOL. It was considered a complete flop in their eyes(until they actually played it). They forgot that a game has to play well and, most importantly, be FUN.

on topic/
Agreed. Unreal Engine 3 has provided us with some of the best looking/playing games this gen had to offer. Games such as Rainbow Vegas, Gears, Bioshock, and Mirrors Edge are perfect examples.

[Flewid638]

Unreal is great for textures and models. But it BLOWS when it comes to animation.

Characters and backgrounds look GREAT.........until they start moving. All of a sudden, everything becomes wooden and "stick-figure-ish". Almost like they're moving like dolls. Animation is what makes a game visually convincing.

Gears and UTIII are the only 2 games where they managed to "sort-of" do better in the animation dept.

[dogmeat eater]

The developer creates it themselves and can modify anything they want. MGS4 was inhouse and the graphics and everything turned out to be truly amazing.

[KingKionic]

I cant agree with this article. There`s a lot more they can do with the engine. A lot great games have come from this engine ,and hopefully it will continue .

[Cajun Chicken]

Yep. Can't wait for ID Tech 5 and Cryengine 3. Middleware is getting annoying, but the economy is stopping people from making engines.

[ShabzS]

just remember that, unreal engine gave mirrors edge. Its all in the developers hand. honourary mention: XIII

[pshizle]

time for unreal engine 4

[rbluetank]

can someone name one game that cut the amount of players by 20% in order to keep the game engine from laging,and ect...online after it was released 7 to 8 months ago!!! i tried to play comp mp to help my wife level up a level. the game is now 4 vs 4 and the stun grenades or really flash grenades... wtf i am being complete honest the game still lags.... this engine has out served it purpose and just a carpet bagging scheme by epic now... their money grabing every opportunity that comes their way...... it is not their faults that people buy dirt cheap and produce shiaet!!!

5 vs 5 now 4 vs 4+%20 decrease... wtf!!!

[rawd]

1998 called they want their 3d engine back. Although the Shartbox360 can't handle anything much more powerful

[TwistedMetal]

ps3 was useing completely new and different tevh that devs who been briefed on it barrly understood it. so I was pretty pissed when average pc/x360 site owners bashed the heck out of ps3 and what its capable of when they didnt even know what it could do. Im suprised there are still x360 people lieing and hiding the facts about xbl like they did with gears graphics.

[H0rned]

When you look at games like Uncharted 2, God of War 3, Trico or Gran Turismo 5 you will see that the engine of those games are two levels above the games, which use the UE 3 (Gears of War 2) for example! It is really difficult to create gorgeous/artistic/inspiring games with the UE 3. The only Developer that managed to pull off a gorgeous-looking game is 2K with their Bioshock. I think that the UE 3 is more dedicated to create cinematic-games ( Gears of War 2). Sure they are working on the UE 4, which will surpass the UE 3, without a single doubt!

[NotSoSilentBob]

its not that UE3 is a failure. But it has become a crutch that 90% of Dev's have decided to use instead of writing their own Engine. Although the Economy is down, their profits aren't down that much. They are just riding what everyone else is saying(Our profits our below expected we can't spare any money cause any waste is to much). It does take an investment in a console/PC engine but sadly Compaines just want profit. They(Devs) are not going to put any potential profit out the window for no reason.

[NotSoSilentBob]

I get a disagree. Could you atleast say why you disagree mr. ghost?

[H0rned]

The MT Framework engine is not available for other third party development-studios, but when you speak about the best crossplatform engine, you should know that the MT Framework engine is the clearly winner!

[tlassanske]

Wrong post

[DFresh]

Thank you Crytek for the Cry Engine 3 which runs better on the PS3.
Cry Engine 3 = Future.
Unreal Engine = Past.

[ambientFLIER]

Wow. That was an extremely weak baiting attempt.

[sayedstafa]

texture pop-up

[N4g_null]

Man I remember the last time people did this to epic. They then went to cash some checks. I will be the first one to bash their engine but after seeing what they fixed I have to give them props, yet are their better ones, hell yes.

For epic to shine again they would have to make a true differed rendering engine, a 2d engine, and engines for other games.

I wonder what you guys would be saying if epic was making a big announcement for SONY at E3?

[REALgamer]

They claim Microsoft has been clinging to UE3.

Haven't they realised that not a single first party MS game has used UE3? Rare are using their Viva Pinata engine which looked amazing in Banjo 3, Lionhead are using their own engine for Fable 2 and Bungie used their internally developed Halo 3 engine.

It wasn't MS's choice what engine gears or Lost Odyssey used, it was the studios and MS was just publishing the game.

Obviously the developers using UE3 did so for their own reasons, they could have used another but they didn't.

The compatibility issues with PS3 are common, but the developers must have seen some payoff in using UE3 because from reports from studios developing on it, it's one of the easiest engines to use. It might have some issues such as the texture pop-in, but if it means the developer can spend less time worrying about technology and more time building a great game, why not?

It'll be good once the CryEngine 3 is a viable option for developers too, just to expand the choices for new developers that don't have the money or time to spend on their own custom engines.

UE3 was a massive boost to graphics back when the first 'next-gen' games were running on updated versions of last-gen engines. Of course, now there's other engines to compete so it's good Epic have been working on UE4 and even doing the updates to UE3.5 for Gears 2 which has still kept it on the forefront so it can compete with the best games today.

[Matpan]

Interesting read. Though the title of the news is a little bit too exagerated. I wouldn´t call it a Fail... the engine has been quite milk and widely used, and that is for a reason.

Surely it is time to move on to a next iteration of the engine, or a new engine all over :)

[JD_Shadow]

This is to XDF's comment at http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-... , since I have no more bubbles to post in the Gamer Zone:

Okay, you dumbass, let me explain this real slow: I wasn't talking about the April numbers, which you want to shove down everyone's throats, it seems. I get that you showed it to me. Everyone and their mother said something about the KZ2 April numbers. YOU, though, said "Oh, KZ2 was built on a new godly looking engine, and it still scored lower than Gears and sold way less." You are SO quick to highlight the April numbers when you KNOW that it's not what I was wanting from you. You make it sound like KZ2 dropped IN the month of April. You're using only the data you WANT us to see, completely ignoring anything that might prove your ass false, and then from that alone, trying to say that I was owned somehow and that I am a Sony fanboy by saying that you were wrong (which you were because you twisted my question around). Why don't you try researching the total numbers of sales (again, going to sales, anyway, like you and the rest of the lunatic fanboys seem to go to to refute ANYTHING before labeling anyone who disagrees with your twisted logic a Sony fanboy).

And then you're trying to say that we're only bringing up the graphics. We know graphics aren't everything, but that's the first thing we're going to see when delving into the game. It's a first impression, and from what we know these systems CAN produce in graphics, it can be inexcusable to have such issues now that the systems have been out for a while. What the ARTICLE was saying was that too many games are using the engine (read: it's overused) and that it's holding the ability of the systems back because the engine can only do so much, and devs seem to be too dependent on it.

Plus, if you read one of my comments at http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-... , you will notice I gave another clear example of the UE3 having issues (and before you say "oh, that's just on the PS3; that just shows how sh!tty the PS3 is at running games", read the entire thing I said on point 2 about Bioshock locking on me and that not happening with any other games I've played on the PS3). That's WHY I said "check my other comments", because I laid it all out for you, yet fanbabies like yourself just refuse to listen.

"That is just bad anyway you spinned it for the greatest looking console game of all time, because graphics is THAT IMPORTANT." Umm...YOU'RE THE ONE ARGUING WITH ME, DIP SH!T! With your lazy research to boot! And what the hell am I spinning? I just asked you for something that you chose to ignore and instead only gave something we already know about and tried to pass it off more than Bush tried to pass off that there were actually WMDs in Iraq (there weren't any. Maybe you should join Cheney in his tour about torture since you know how to lie an awful lot).

"Who gives a rats about what engine a game is based on" You obviously do because you're trying to shove this damn engine down my throat!

"As long as it plays good, fun, and not wait an eternity..cough..GT5..cough, then it is fine with me." And where's Alan Wake again? See what I did there.

I'm sorry to everyone else, but the way he's going on in the Gamer Zone pissed me off.

[N4g_null]

Seriously don't get too pissed these guys don't really care about any of this they just want the games. Epic is suppose to have a big announcement and I remember them talking about some new things happening also. If I remember the neo geo was pretty good also and no one bought it. The same thing goes here. Some actually new facts while others are acting like they are still in high school. Facts are not based on the majority LOL. It's a fact that you need a little bit more than a SPU to beat out the xbox totally. It is also a fact that you have a lot of angry xbox 360 ex owners here. I really don't blame them but they are actualy messing up sonys plans a little. A price cut is not going to get it for the PS3 they need different games.

[Saaking]

You really can't say the Unreal Engine is bad because there have been some awesome made with it; however, it is very overused.

[phreaky]

as far as the industry is concerned, UE3 (and UE4, 5, 6, etc) are for many the lifeblood that allows any given dev to continue.

We are in the midst of an economic slump. The cost of game development has never been higher. If we want quality games as much as possible, and there is a set of tools available to a dev to utilise in order to reduce development costs, we ought to bear in mind that this would provide the devs with a far more viable option in terms of an unique game concept.

If an engine had to be built from the ground up every time a new console came our or every time a company wanted that bit more oomph with the game's looks, it would be prohibitively expensive.

UE3 allows devs a lot of freedom to focus spending on other things, which in turn provides us with more games. If we had just a few amazing games rather than the mix that we have today, the games market would stagnate far more than any impact of UE3.

I'm not going to go into any fanboy antics on this, either. The two consoles are now demonstrating what they are each capable of,and that is hugely impressive. Gear of War is still a stand-out game in many circles, and Killzone 2 finally showed what the PS3 can do, with Uncharted before it.

The question that needs to be considered is which if those would have been more profitable had the devs just used the UE3 engine, if any? A license for UE3 is more than likely cheaper than ploughing wads of cash into the development of an engine.

Granted if the game is a success, you can then tweak your existing engine, but if it fails and is hammered because the engine is all wrong, you have months - if not years - of wasted time and money.

Just my 2 cents...

[Frnicatr]

Clearly, it's time to move on for Unreal Engine 3, but like look at how much money Epic made off of it, games still use it and still look good.

But still, we need something new.

[TheBand1t]

I'd like Unreal to be replaced with Dice's Frostbite engine.

Now THAT'S an awesome engine.

[butbutbuttehcell]

UE3 has produced probably the most AAA titles this gen hasn't it? Gears 1 2 and Bioshock are all much better than the majority of games. And if you hadn't noticed, those games have sold a hell of a lot better than these other 'supposedly better' games. So how is this Epic's fail when their engine has created these hugely successful games? And Gears has great graphics but I suppose you didn't notice this. You PS3 bummer boys need 2 get ur penis's out of the killzone 2 disc and realise that there are other games in the world that are great.

[AllSystemsRocks]

Fanboys all over here for both side Amen... Graphics are great on both consoles and they are close, both side fanboys need an eyes check soon ! Unreal 3 or CE 3, no one here are able to make games and you are running your mouth so stop whinning, buy / rent your games and play !

PS3 fb " Mom check it out Uncharted 2 will come and all xbots will be Killzowed"

360 fb " Dad Gears, Gears, Gears, Gears " " Son stfu and play "

[hakis86]

I'm not sure it's the UE3 that is holding back the 360 - I mean Cliffy and the guys at Epic claimed that they have really pushed the engine on Gears 2 - that mean to the point where the 360 is running out of juice, I guess.
But if it IS the UE3 that is the "bottleneck" if you will, then maybe we'll start seeing improvements with CryEngine 3. The CryEngine has a good reputation so I don't see why developers can't move over to it :-)
I mean, are there any other alternatives, really?

and then there's option number three: Maybe the PS3 simply is mor epowerful/more smart designed when it comes down to raw graphical horsepower.

We'll know the truth in 2015 I guess xD when looking back.

[obinofunkenobi]

Bioshock is not in the Unreal 3 engine. It's in a heavily modified version of Unreal 2.

[MriownBOTH]

yeah what 7 million gears, 5 million gears 2 sold......must be a epic fail...such ignorant people.

[bjornbear]

..but its not..

Quite the contrary, the innovative rarely sells well, and therefore theres the infamous (great game =D) relationship between selling vs. innovating.

Look at the companies that are pushing the boundaries, taking risks and trying new things (and at times failing) compared to companies that repeat the same safe formula, and sell...

Which one is going to bring the world forward?

Don't be silly to assume because something sells that its good, its the biggest mistake any consumer can do (and most consumers do). To be objective and fair, you must look far beyond sales, and at times, even disregard them.

Sales only state the marketing and efficiency of a company to get their product across to the masses, not always to do with innovaton (except in the publicity department), so you stand corrected.

Epic's engine is failing because its a comfortable solution to game development, and quite a restricting one too.

[BobbySaget]

I agree, one of the reasons alot of PS3 fanboys claim that the 360 cant 'hold its own' is because every single game we have is a "PC GAME" that was just SLOPPED into the 360. We truly do not have a single game that was designed specifically for Xenon nor Xenos.

This is why you heae alot of developers as well as tech guru's claiming that there "is nothing on the PS3 that cannot be on on the 360" For the most part this is true.

KZ2 could be ran on the 360 if deferred rendering engine was re-designed for the 360. In its current form, the 360 obviously couldn't run it. This DOESN'T mean the 360 version would be worse in anyway. You can disagree but i have experience developing for both consoles and i am highly certain that it could be done.

Uncharted 2 might be a different story, there is alot of stuff Uncharted does does that the 360 would have trouble doing. But there are several things the 360 can do that the PS3 has trouble doing (HDR,AA,AF,RES). It isn't remotely a "stretch" to think a nearly identical game being created on the 360.

Truth is that both consoles have old hardware, and neither one has hardware that is "worlds better" than the other. I have no doubt in my mind that the PS3 will put out some amazing visuals as its life-cycle continuous on, but as of now i think the 360s BIGGEST weakness is its developers.

For the love of god.. STOP GIVING US PC games!!!