Forza 3 vs GT5:P comparison - Suzuka F430 comparison

josuttis - 62 days 7 hours ago

Doing an honest comparison of 1080p GT vs 720p Forza would defeat the purpose of this article.

The gaming media desperately wants to keep the illusion that 360 is in the same graphical league as the PS3.

Can you imagine the cries of outrage if the gaming media compared a 360 game running at 480p to a Wii game and spouted a bunch of both games 'have plusses and minuses' BS like this silly article?

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gameangel - 62 days 7 hours ago

If you showed GT5:P at 1080p, it'd just show up even more of the imperfections. IF anything they're doing it a favour by capturing at 720p as the downsampling smooths off jaggies and such.

Anyway, resolution is irrelevant - what's clear to see is that Forza has much more detail. But don't be sad or angry - it's OK - GT5 will surely best Forza when it turns up next year.

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Walther - 62 days 7 hours ago

>Running GT:P at half its resolution.

Epic humiliation for Microsoft and Turn 10 and Xbox 360.

Microsoft's first party studio get destroyed by:

* A demo of a PS3 game

* Two year old demo

* A two year old demo running at half its native resolution - in other words losing half the detail of the game

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josuttis - 62 days 7 hours ago

Granted Turn 10 has nowhere near the talent of Polyphony and they are stuck with the massively weaker Xbox 360 graphics hardware.

But...

that doesn't excuse Forza's absolutely F-ed up lighting model and car rendering. The massive parallel number crunching power of the SPUs in the PS3 give Polyphony the power to implement GT's insane lighting model, but even GT on the PSP has a more realistic lighting model than Forza 3 - but at a lower resolution.

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Microsoft Xbox 360 - 62 days 7 hours ago

Yeah the lighting engine in F3 is inferior in so many ways. Looks very unrealistic.

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deadreckoning666 - 62 days 7 hours ago

Most idiotic comparison EVER. Ur comparing details of one car. I still don't understand why either 360 or PS3 fanboys are goin crazy over either of these games. Driving sims are tired IMO. If u like driving sims, thats great. But I bet many people here that are defending either of these games don't plan on buying either one. There just doing it out of the "I have the opportunity to play it and u don't, so I win" mentality.

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droid and bot - 62 days 7 hours ago

why dont everyone just wait tell the games are out ?
and why is GT Running at half its resolution ?

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BulletToothtony - 62 days 7 hours ago

this is a crappy site, and the guy doesn't own a 1080p tv.

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G3TDOWN - 62 days 7 hours ago

seriously lmao ! jaggies all over the place, no good looking grass, the roads don't look as good as GT5 roads

the list goes on and on

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badz149 - 62 days 7 hours ago

one word: "priceless"

how can anybody be proud saying that when it's a comparison with a 2 year old game which was touted as a glorified demo and not at it's native resolution?? GT5P@720P is like a sheep slap in the face!!

ps: nice spin though!

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Maddens Raiders - 62 days 6 hours ago

Gran Turismo's been steering this PlayStation ship for quite some time. Looks like more smooth sailing ahead boys.

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ultimolu - 62 days 6 hours ago

This is getting so pathetic now. Seriously, it is.

If Forza 3 is so good, then let the game speak for itself. Why use GT5: Prologue?

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GUNS N SWORDS - 62 days 6 hours ago

you know, whoever though that ps3 and 360 gamers could coexists on the same thread wasn't thinking accurately....and if he was i don't see it happening.

clearly there's no point in making a zone for gamers if no one's abiding them. the gamer zone once again looks like an extension of the open zone, and for some reason it keeps on following that path.

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doG beLIEfs - 62 days 6 hours ago

aside from the fact that they have taken down the resolution maybe its just me but without a doubt IMO the brightness and the contrast levels on the GTp side is turned way way down. there is only midday in gtp and i can tell you this much it looks much brighter than this. you can barely see inside the cars in the gtp screens and when i play the game i can not only see inside the car clearly but i can see the reflection on the rearview mirror and see the track and or cars in the mirror.

if these "fair" comparisons are doing this kind of crap now with toning down the resolution and darkening the picture...what will they do when gt5 is shown with its 1080p glory?

maybe they will show it with the color turned off on the ps3 side.

just so sad really...the haters have nothing left so they resort to fixed views tactics and fabricate fair and balanced.

cycle through these gt5p screens and tell me that it does not look MUCH brighter

http://www.cheatcc.com/imag...

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Death - 62 days 6 hours ago

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Forza 3 demo I downloaded off Xbox Live Marketplace was free. The GT5: Prologue disc I bought cost $39.99 at Gamestop. I really want to believe that is more than a demo since I actually paid for it. We can downplay Prologue all night long, but at the end of the day it's a stand alone release with a pretty hefty price tag considering how limited it is compared to a full release.

720p is half of GT's "native" resolution? 720p is 1280x720 pixels. That's 921,600 pixels on screen at once. "True HD" is 1080p which is 1920x1080 for a grand total of 2,073,600 pixels. GT5:P runs natively at 1280x1080 which comes out to 1,382,400. The PS3 is upscaling the rest to 1080p which is the same thing the Xbox 360 does with games that aren't native 1080p.

I'm not sure why people get so excited over native resolutions. Your eye can't tell the differance. Devs are smart and know how to use the hardware to optimize their games. Both games output 1080p and both games upscale.

-Death

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Mr Logic - 62 days 6 hours ago

Nobody sees anything wrong with comparing a demo that is 18 months old to a new game?

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Mr Logic - 62 days 6 hours ago

Forza 3 looks amazing, but IMO the cars look "plasticy".

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Death - 62 days 6 hours ago

"Nobody sees anything wrong with comparing a demo that is 18 months old to a new game?"

I'm more surprised nobody feels paying $40 for a demo is kind of a rip off. I'm starting to feel bad about buying Prologue now. Are we sure we want to call Prologue a demo after fighting so hard to justify the price tag a year or so ago?

-Death

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soxfan2005 - 62 days 5 hours ago

You should know by now that PS3 fanboys will consider GT5P a demo when it suits one arguement, and a stand-alone release when it suits another.

GT5P had 6 tracks and 70 cars. The full version of GT5 is rumored to have 70 tracks and 1000 cars, meaning Prologue is less than 1/10th of the full game. However, it costs $40, 2/3 the price of a full game. Yet, these are the same people who complain about Halo 3:ODST's price.

@1.2 - "The gaming media desperately wants to keep the illusion that 360 is in the same graphical league as the PS3."
People who live in the real world know it's not an illusion. PS3 fanboys like you and your multiple accounts are the only ones in denial about it. But, go ahead and bury your head in the sand and cry "media bias" if it makes you feel less insecure.

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MNicholas - 62 days 5 hours ago

Amazing what the power of suggestion can do and the magazine has wrongly suggested that Forza 3 is a better looking game when anyone who's technically knowledgable will tell you the reverse.

Let's get the first and most obvious out of the way ... the cars. Apart from drawing twice as many car, GT5 Prologue's car is blatantly smoother and more detailed. The lighting in Forza 3 simply pales in comparison. What's more, while GT5 Prologue allows you to see the beautifully shaded interior through the rear window, Forza 3 simply blacks out nearly all interior surfaces to conserve shading and texturing capacity.

As for the backgrounds, the truth is that the backgrounds in Forza 3 are worse.

Neither has good textures in grassy areas.

However, GT5 Prologue has far more grass objects. Vastly more. There's tons of grass in GT5 Prologue but it's rather sparse in Forza 3.

The road edge textures (where road meets grass) uses sharper and visibly less compressed textures in GT5 Prologue. The white lines, which, believe it or not, are made using polygons (in both games) rather than painted textures, are much smoother and better defined in GT5 Prologue.

Forza 3 also displays some truly bizarre artifacting, perhaps resulting from the way the 360 handles alpha to coverage (ie., not enough samples). It's pretty bad actually.

Forza 3 is also skewing the FOV (field of view) considerably such that things appear farther away than they really are. This allows more LOD reduction on environment objects and reduces strain on the hardware but isn't realistic. Burnout games do this as well but those don't pretend to be sims.

It's ironic that gameswire talks about the detail in Forza 3 dotting the track because thats exactly what it does. Lines, fences, and trees are very dotty indeed due to the low sampling rate.

There's a reason GT5 Prologue looks so polished and clean compared to Forza 3. It's not just because Forza 3 has lots of jaggies. It's because GT5 Prologue is simply using a lot more samples per pixel in everything it does, from transparent surfaces to lighting. It's also rendering more polygons and more pixels. In fact, it's doing more of everything.

To put it simply:

Forza3: 0.92 Million pixels/frame
GT5 P : 1.38 Million pixels/frame

GT5 P is literally rendering 1.5 times more pixels/frame with visibly more samples per pixel and noticably more polygons (especially dynamic objects like cars and grass).

That's a vast gap in performance.

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u got owned - 62 days 4 hours ago

Both games look good and both games have its strength and weaknesses. I have played the Sh@t out of F2 and GT5P and i will play the Sh@t out of F3.

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Megan Fox - 62 days 4 hours ago

GT5P has better AA and lighting everything else goes to F3.

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aaron5829 - 62 days 4 hours ago

As sarcasm.

Isnt it that the xbox fans calling it a demo since day 1 ? "Oh you'd rather pay for a glorified demo...lolzz failzz" " ohhh 40 bucks for a demo ... lolzzzz" "go back and play your 40 dollar demo you droid!!" " Sony milking the franchise, charging 40 dollars for a demo... you droids will do anything to suck sony ballz..."

Sounds familiar ?

And now, when the ps fans use the term demo (in a sarcastic way), the xbox fans goes... "How can you call it a demo, when you paid for it.." " Since when GT5P is a demo.... it cost 2/3 of the full game..." blablabla..blablabla

Whatever guys...

Fanboys.. you get on my nerves.

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darthv72 - 62 days 4 hours ago

but this comparison blows. I hate the fact that gt5 cars are smaller on screen as compared to forza. Is there no view setting where both are set at the same (or similar) draw distance on the screen?

While gt5 has nice lighting, forza has better sizable car models (bigger on screen). I personally like bumper cam but next to that I like the above car view (being shown).

Why cant fans on each side just be happy at what is being offered?

Also, why is it matter so much to the gt5 fans that forza looks like it does? Criticize the devs for their assinine statements but dont criticize the games. Both are hot no matter what.

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MNicholas - 62 days 4 hours ago

Wishful thinking.

Car detail: GT5 Prologue
Number of cars: GT5 Prologue
Resolution: GT5 Prologue
Lighting: GT5 Prologue
Shadows: GT5 Prologue(smoother)
Road Detail: GT5 Prologue (better lines and bumps)
Grass: GT5 Prologue (far more grass, animated)
Realistic FOV: GT5 Prologue (not artifically skewed)
LOD: GT5 Prologue (visibly less artifacting and rendering errors)
Quality of rendering: GT5 Prologue (insufficient samples per pixel result in dithering and other artifacts in Forza 3, which also has lots of jaggies)
Trees: Forza 3 (frankly, both use last-gen trees)
Buildings: Mixed (both win a few)

The only areas where Forza 3 competes are trees and buildings. Both games use trees from last-gen consoles. Forza 3 uses trees that are better looking up close but LOD out to a bunch of sprites at a relatively short distance, very reminiscent of SpeedTree.

Everything goes to GT5 Prologue by a landslide.

An in-car view would have been even less flattering for Forza 3.

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DeepInterludium - 62 days 4 hours ago

More detailed huh?
http://i38.tinypic.com/2554...

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fishd - 62 days 3 hours ago

poor gameswire,They are trying so hard
*pats gameswire on the head*

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tuglu_pati - 62 days 3 hours ago

i have to give this one to forza 3. Still, GT5P looks good for a two year old demo.

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god_o_war - 62 days 3 hours ago

all i can say is.... this is my desktop background

http://i38.tinypic.com/2554...

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Microsoft Xbox 360 - 62 days 3 hours ago

Seriously, do you know where that word "demo" for Prologue originated from? GT5P was first labeled a demo by the 360 fanboys. Go read up all the articles here on N4G and you will see what I'm talking about. But now that FM3 is here or almost here, the term seems to backfire to you 360 fanboys because FM3 is no where near graphical qualities of GT5P. It must suck to see your beloved 2009 game get beat by a 2007 "demo" huh? LOL

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soxfan2005 - 62 days 3 hours ago

Beat?? Hardly. Remember, the PS3 came out a year later than the 360, and cost $200-$300 more - it should have much better graphics. Yet, Forza 3, on technology that's a year older than PS3's, looks just as good. I'll give GT5P a very slight edge in a few graphical areas, but overall, they look roughly the same.

Of course, many people here are shallow enough to care only about graphics - gameplay doesn't seem to matter to them. And it's gameplay where Forza shines above all others - go read up on it.

GT5P doesn't "beat" Forza 3 just because of a few barely noticeable graphical differences. Games have a LOT more to them than that.

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GMR_PR - 62 days 3 hours ago

F3 have much detail but i think that's what makes it look less real. In some screens GT5p looks better and F3 looks better in other ones. I think overall both games look similar.

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pixelsword - 62 days 2 hours ago

those are the two most current games, so why people are wasting their time with Prologue is beyond me.

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JANF - 62 days 2 hours ago

My vote goes to F3, F3 has much more detail. The only thing i like about Gt5P is the anti aliasing the game looks smooth, both games look good though.

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vhero - 62 days 2 hours ago

Gotta love how they all have to compare with GT5P to get their thrills eh? Why not compare with one of the need for speeds on the PS1 while your at it so you can say your better than a nearly 10 year old game aswel as a 2 year old game.

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Maddens Raiders - 62 days 2 hours ago

Boom!

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beardpapa - 62 days 1 hour ago

Forza 3 looks "just as good" as GT5p ? Nah. You kidding me? That's like saying Vince Vaughn looks just as good as Brad Pitt.

You know what looks just as good however? Quantum Theory & Gears. "Just as good" is a better statement for those two.

And yes, like someone above said, the only reason why people use the word "demo" for GT5p is because that's what the "other" people have been calling it while ridiculing PS3 owners for paying $40 for this "demo."

AFAIK, i remember having to pay for the previous other prologues in the series, but regardless of that, GT5p is much more than a "demo" but hey! That's what the "other" people liked calling it. F##king double standards I tell you.

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IDemonstalkerXI - 62 days 1 hour ago

Gran Turismo 5....(Prologue) <- def. Introduction, ....it is a Prologue what comes before ...the full game. What we see here is a comparison of a very early build of GT5 to a final build of Forza 3 no?

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hay - 62 days ago

@IDemonstalkerXI: Nah, Xbox fanboys will then scream something like: "you sony fanboys are pathetic, comparing new game with half a year old one."

Huh, on the funny side I actually mistaken F3 and GT5P screenies, looked and was like: "whoah! where are those jaggies from? My game doesn't have that much jaggies!" And after a few seconds it occured to me that it was Forza screenie. Huh.

To be fair I think Forza3 has the edge on most of environments(newer tech, obviously) but GT5P beats it in car models and lighting. They just exceed each other in different areas.

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starvinbull - 62 days ago

The one thing that stood out for me in those screenshots was HDR. Forza 3 doesn't appear to have it.

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Syronicus - 61 days 23 hours ago

Having to compare a new game to an old DEMO is pathetic to begin with but what is more pathetic is that the demo looks better than Forza 3. And they had to dumb down the demo to 720 instead of using it's native resolution. Sad, pathetic, disappointing. Prolog beats out FM3 - again.

Maybe if the devs at Turn 10 spent less time trash talking and more time developing, they might have made a better looking game...?

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Oner - 61 days 17 hours ago

This comparison is BS. You can see the proof right in the pictures themselves. Look at all of these "direct comparison" grabs right from their site that THEY provide and you will CLEARLY notice how there is a weird artifacting/graining on the GT5P F430's rear diffuser. Once you see it you will notice it leads into the car itself along with the lower HUD and some of the backgrounds ~

http://www.gameswire.net/co...

http://www.gameswire.net/co...

http://www.gameswire.net/co...

http://www.gameswire.net/co...

http://www.gameswire.net/co...

http://www.gameswire.net/co...

http://www.gameswire.net/co...

http://www.gameswire.net/co...

Correct GT5P screen grabs on other more respected sites DO NOT HAVE THIS what I can only describe as an artificial macro-blocking compression effect or something.

Now I know "certain types" will claim I am being some conspiracy theorist blah blah blah, but the evidence/proof is there for ALL TO SEE and confirm for themselves. If you don't see it then you have selective vision for some odd reason (and I would wonder why?)...

Here is a PROPER 1280x720 grab of GT5P's visuals for those that would say other wise and don't want to believe the facts right in front of them ~

http://www.cynamite.de/imgs...

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MNicholas - 61 days 17 hours ago

Turn10 simplified the car model considerably and skewed the perspective. Most of you understand that reducing polygon count improves frame-rate but the concept of skewing perspective or field of view is probably something new to most non-developers.

As you know, things that are farther away appear smaller. In video games, this allows the far away objects to be rendered using simpler models, sometimes just simple sprites suffice. This trick is quite common on all platforms. It's unrealistic but makes it easier to achieve a target frame-rate.

With Forza 3, they've done precisely that. They significantly skewed the perspective to shrink objects farther away from the camera since that allows very aggressive LOD to be used, ie., they can use simpler models for buildings, trees, spectators, etc.., and most importantly, dynamic geometry like cars.

The perspective is so skewed that even the main car model appears to be deformed.

Here's a quick comparison of Forza 3 with a real car and GT5P. I've added vertical lines between key aspects of the car models to highlight how proportions are represented in the game vs real-life.

http://img245.imageshack.us...

As you can see, with GT5P, everything almost exactly lines up with the car in the photo, from the fenders to the tail-lights to the side-mirrors. The minor differences are because the car in the photo is very very slightly turned to the right and the camera is slightly lower than in GT5P.

However, with Forza 3 there are huge differences. Even though total car width is the same in all the images, the tail-lights are farther apart than they should be while the side mirrors smaller and much closer together than they should be. Side mirrors are only a few feet farther from the camera than the tail-lights yet even they are significantly affected by the skewed FOV.

This is just one of the many compromises Turn10 has made to achieve 60fps. It's one of the more clever ones because few will notice but the performance gains are significant. Sadly it also makes it unrealistic.

Can a racing game give you a warped view of the car and it's surroundings and still be considered a sim?

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Bodyboarder_VGamer - 61 days 17 hours ago

That is very true but still didn't stop 68 people to disagree with you... When you run GT5:P at 1080P there are more visible jaggies. This is a well known fact.

But this is a double edge sword too because if you are watching both games in person on a 1080p capable tv then GT5:P will look sharper than Forza even with the more noticeable jaggies because there will be no scaling involved. But (too many buts, I know) in a comparison like this one GT5:P actually benefits by running at a lower res than its native for the reasons that @gameangel explained.

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Bodyboarder_VGamer - 61 days 17 hours ago

Okay, @Oner's comment was indeed very interesting! And the best part is that he has proves!

It seems like gameswire doesn't has the right equipment to grab screens at its maximum quality...

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darkmurder - 61 days 16 hours ago

Youd hope GT looks better considering how long its been in development for.

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likedamaster - 61 days 12 hours ago

Forza 3 blows it away in every way.

F3 FTW!

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ambientFLIER - 62 days 7 hours ago

Demo? Wait, I thought you guys said it was a full-fledged game? Why would it cost $40 if it was a demo?

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Pope_John_Paul_II - 62 days 7 hours ago

because it had tons of content for a game that was not a final product, not to mention, a constant flow of updates that kept the game going.

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Bill Gates - 62 days 7 hours ago

Even in pictures GT looks like it's running at 60fps..sooo smoooth!!

Meanwhile Foolza 3 looks like a wheelchair being tossed down a flight of stairs .....AHHAHAHHAHAAHHAAHHH A

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2good4u2 - 61 days 19 hours ago

so killzone 2 also lost against a demo?

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likedamaster - 61 days 12 hours ago

Forza 3 looks obviously better. And you don't have to wait 6 more months to play it.

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SpenserTracy - 61 days 13 hours ago

It flops.

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ambientFLIER - 62 days 7 hours ago

The people look the same in both games.

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arsenal55 - 62 days 4 hours ago

the track was disc 1 but the car was disc 2.

gt5 2 year old DEMO FTW!!!!

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DavidMacDougall - 62 days 7 hours ago

GT5:P wins over Forza and its years old, GT5 has already destroyed it and its not finished yet! LOL

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DonCorneo - 62 days 7 hours ago

are you a dummy? that's how real tracks look.. play mario kart if you want out of this world tracks

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thebudgetgamer - 62 days 6 hours ago

anyone else notice how in one game you can clearly see through the back window, the other not so much.

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suunyd - 62 days 6 hours ago

Forza MotorSport: The Real Parking Simulator.

@TheBudgetGamer: They blackened the back window so that they wouldn't require as many polygons to be used when playing. If you look at the Menu cars of Forza 3, you see the windows are clear. As soon as you play the in game model, it becomes dark.

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thebudgetgamer - 62 days 6 hours ago

lying?

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Grand Turdismo 2015 - 62 days 4 hours ago

WOW. You just can't win with these PS3 idiots! Forza has better track and environment detailing, with things like shadows, trees, trackside objects, etc, yet that's a disadvantage now because real tracks are supposed to look sterile? WOW. This is just sad. If GT5P had better environments, we'd hear about it non-stop, yet now it doesn't matter all of a sudden. In fact, you droids would be happy with a one-billion polygon car driving around on a blank screen...how pathetic.

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cmrbe - 62 days 4 hours ago

The person that waste their time looking at others activity is sad.

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kingdavid - 62 days 3 hours ago

That took 2 minutes to do. How is that sadder than spending ever minute of every day browsing n4g?

Why arent you playing the esteemed ps3 exclusives instead saaking?

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The Creep - 62 days 2 hours ago

wow it looks like saaking needs a life loool

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flaming_xbot - 62 days ago

learn how 2 drink or spell or something epic fail

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