What Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Should've Been

It is so easy to knock the final product of what dozens, perhaps hundreds of individuals put their blood, sweat and tears into. Whether intentional or incidental, those who decide to release a product to a market are liable to having their product reviewed, praised, demerited, hated, loved and everything in between. This is definitely one of those very times. Fret not, as I have no interest in bashing a product that was designed to appease millions. If sales are anything to go by, thats exactly what it’s doing so I have no place in arguing about how bad or good Marvel vs Capcom 3 is as a game. What I am here to do however, is help do what our minds tend to do sometimes even without our will– and thats to imagine. I wish to introduce a scenario, more specifically, a hypothetical or ‘what if’ situation. The likes of one that wonders what Marvel vs Capcom 3 could’ve, would’ve and most importantly should’ve been.

The ‘vs’ series (Capcom’s that is) has been around and relevant since about 1996. I wish to avoid a history lesson of all of the entries involved, but let’s just say audiences around the world had the privilege of enjoying over 5 installments of a series that consistently upgraded its fighting system and game features in each title. Those familiar with the titles can pinpoint every single difference and similarity from title to title, but I’m only going to touch base on a few. Had Capcom released a Collection edition of all their ‘vs’ titles (this includes those such as Xmen: COTA and Marvel Super Heroes), the first thing you would notice is that the art style or “sprites” remain mostly the same between each title albeit some animation tweaks and enhancements. As did button configurations, costume colors and the overall frenetic gameplay fans were used to. This lasted all the way up to Marvel vs Capcom 2, the game that saw the most changes with an enormous character roster and a new button layout. Needless to say, MvC2 was and still stands as the stalwart of the series. So powerful in fact that fans begged Capcom to continue to support the title through expansions or by possibly making a sequel. After 10 years, millions of fanmail and countless hours of waiting, Capcom finally granted them their wish.

It’s important that you understand just how much of an impact MvC2 left on its fanbase. It still remains one of the most played fighting games of all time, consistently rounding players up from around the world and pitting them against each other in famed tournaments. This is over 10 years later, I know of no other fighting game that even comes close. Enter Marvel vs Capcom 3, the sequel to perhaps the most anticipated game of all time. Emotions will and eventually dis run high upon its release. New fans are added to the wagon and old ones dismount in disgust. The community is divided like the Red Sea and Capcom becomes the body pillow and punching bag for fighting gaming enthusiasts around the world. A love/hate relationship doesn’t even begin to tell their story. The thing is….this is a problem or a predicament rather, that could’ve been easily avoided if and only if they remained true to the formula that have worked for them time after time.

I respect Capcom’s courage in wanting to branch out, expand their resources and talents, and try something new. What I don’t respect though, is their excuses for doing so. Capcom is constantly heard saying that to had remain true to the ‘vs’ series’ roots would’ve meant spending countless man hours redrawing sprites. In addition, they also felt that this process wasn’t what the fans wanted at all, and to continue to try to strive on an “antiquated” formula would’ve spelt disaster for the franchise and the fanbase alike. A respectable deduction no less, again, I admire Capcom’s courage to propel the company as a whole in all areas. Why they couldn’t choose an entirely different franchise to experiment on is beyond its fans. Judging by the reception from their fanbase, it is safe to say that Capcom should have played it safe when tampering with their most prized product. Had they did so, MvC 3 could’ve been an entirely different title. Let’s assume that Capcom wanted to do this, but was completely lost on how to proceed. Here’s what Marvel vs Capcom 3 should have been….

With today’s powerful systems at their disposal, Capcom would’ve been exposed to a level of unprecedented raw power to work with. I say unprecedented because when it came to fighting games, Capcom was always limited to the current technological state of the Arcade machine present at the time. The Dreamcast version of MvC 2 ran beautifully, there wasn’t any hint that the title was limited by its console counterpart. If the Dreamcast was able to effortlessly run a game that boasted beautiful visuals, super-frenetic, fast-paced gameplay, multiple game modes and a roster with 56 unique characters, can you imagine what could’ve been achieved with today’s systems?

- A character roster that could’ve easily exceeded 100 characters. Capcom need not to fear about over serving in a title that people still play faithfully 11 years after its inception. If the Dreamcast could handle 56 without breaking a sweat…

- Super-fluid visuals and character animations ala Blazblue. Well over 30 stages can be equipped in a title running on hardware such as the ones currently available. Hand drawn backgrounds would’ve been o.k by the fans I’m sure.

- Each character having at least 4 different specials. Characters still recognize each other during gameplay ala MvC 3

- At least 6 different outfits for all characters. This feat has been attained by them before, changing a color has little to no detrimental effect on processing power

-Kept the same button layout. Their new “Easy Mode” could’ve been the current MvC3 layout. No one would’ve had a problem with an easy mode had they kept the buttons the same

- Capcom didn’t have to RE-draw every sprite. They simply could’ve added to the already existing ones by tweaking and enhancing them. Suffice it to say, if time was ever an issue with Capcom, this would have not been

- A bevy of modes, bonus stages, trials, mini-games and trophies/achievements would have kept most satisfied for decades

- MvC2 introduced the newest and most robust features of any of the installments before it, the “Assist” feature being the most memorable. MvC3 could’ve expanded on this system by implement features such as choosing which DHC (Delayed Hyper Combo) you wanted to use, instead of just DHCing to the person who happened to be next in your line-up. Choosing whether or not you come out with an attack when switching your partner or maybe even DHCing all of you special bars.

- Specific online options could’ve allowed or prevented people from using such new features, or even allowed things like: No assist, specific assist types only, no switching, no X-factor, Turbo modes, no Easy mode, 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2… the list goes on and on

Its an unfortunate feeling knowing what could’ve been but never will be. Theres some joy to be had in the imagining of what may have come to pass, but alas it is just that…an imagination. Essentially, MvC 2 was sort of a Mortal Kombat Trilogy in the sense that it brought together all the characters Capcom had originally released in the titles before. It isn’t too far-fetched to understand that maybe, this is all the fans ever really wanted….more of the same. According to many people, Capcom dropped one of the most valuable balls in existence. Had gamers known, I’m sure Capcom could’ve taken another 10 years making this game, and hardly no one would’ve complained. Who knows, maybe with a little luck, Capcom may one day release some DLC for the PSN/XBL MvC2 versions. I mean after all, they did eventually release Marvel vs Capcom 3….or at least what they call Marvel vs Capcom 3.

[Megaman_nerd]

I think Capcom went the right way with the art style of the game, a sprite based game would have looked too anime to resonate with today's fanbase of the series. Back in the day was fine because it was the norm but after games like Arcana Heart and BlazBlue got released on the US Capcom just had to distance themselves from that and create something more unique.

For me what ruined the game was the roster and the actual battle system, on top of having an updated version of the same game in less than a year. Fan favorites like Megaman, Cyclops, Venom, Gambit, Captain Commando, Ken, etc. were left out of the game to include garbage characters that no one even uses like Arthur, the raccoon, Firebrand and MODOK is what killed the game for me. The character selection is so random I don't feel that unity like in the old games.

Then we have the battle system were all of the characters have the exact same main ground and air combo. They tried too hard to make this game casual as hell and failed. The game is fun but not for too long. I played MVC2 (I have it on Dreamcast, PS2 and PS3) for years and years but I'm already bored of MvC3 in less than a year. And yes, I bought Ultimate and only played it like 3 times. =/

[dedicatedtogamers]

CAPCOM's choice to go with the 3D engine - I think - had more to do with the engine itself. They made it for Street Fighter IV and they really wanted to milk it for all its worth in every possible game. Techinically speaking, Street Fighter is way more popular than MvC worldwide, and if CAPCOM wasn't willing to draw sprites for SFIV...well...I'm not surprised they went the easy route for MvC3.

But I agree with your points. CAPCOM's excuse was "it would take sooooo long to re-do all the sprites". Okay, assuming that excuse is valid (it isn't, as I'll point out), then why don't you use that extra time you saved by, y'know, adding in more content and more features. Ultimate MvC3 (the Ultimate version, mind you, not the original MvC3) has MAYBE the same amount of content as MvC2. So, I don't get it, CAPCOM. You saved all this time by going 3D and not redrawing every single sprite, yet where did that time go? Making DLC?

Now, BlazBlue is a good comparison. It has great sprites and great backgrounds. However, I am willing to give CAPCOM the benefit of the doubt because you'll notice that BlazBlue only boasts 10-12 characters, which is NOTHING compared to the 35-50 between MvC3 and UMvC3.

However, there's a little game called King of Fighters XIII.

33 characters, not including DLC. Full-2D sprite backgrounds. Loads of specials, EX moves, Neo Max (hypers), and more.

So, lemme get this straight: SNK Playmore - a company that has a fraction of the team size and budget as the almighty CAPCOM - manages to make a full-2D fighting game with 33 characters, and I'm supposed to believe that it would be "too much work" for CAPCOM to do the same? Really?

[Deadpool616]

I'm glad to see you express the same emotions I have towards these games. Capcom isn't the same Capcom we once knew and loved. The Capcom we have now is nothing more than an impostor with the same name.

King of Fighters XIII is my fighting game of 2011. That's saying a lot considering how horribly unfinished KOF XII was. SNK Playmore did an amazing comeback 2011.

[maniacmayhem]

KOF XIII doesn't do or play the same way UMvC3 plays. the quick switching in and out of characters, the snap backs, call assists the 100 to 200 hit combos with assists combos. So yes it would have been more work on Capcom to make it sprite based.

With kof you have to draw each and every individual sprite and redraw with each different motion, move, throw, counter you name it. That takes a lot of time. Just look at how long the load times are between rounds.

A lot of the new KOF'S supers, neo max and ex moves are recycled or beefed up looking special moves. Even some of the characters are just the same sprites with switched heads (vice, mature, Joe, hwai(?)). And lets not even talk about the last two bosses which are so horribly cheap looking that it feels like the engineers just ran past their deadline and gave up.

Don't get me wrong kof xiii is a good game. But snk needs to step it up a little bit more.

and don't forget a lot of that time is spent in negotiations with Marvel on who they can use and how they can be used. unlike kof, capcom has to deal with an outside license and please its holders. Everything they do with those characters has to be approved by marvel.

[dedicatedtogamers]

Not sure what you mean about load times. Takes less than 3 seconds between rounds for me. I loaded it up earlier today ('cause it's a fun game). And I don't see why that's an excuse. The CAPCOM team that made Marvel vs Capcom 3 had three times as many people and thrice the budget of the SNK Playmore team. They could have very easily kept the game in 2D. I'm not saying it's a bad game because it's in 3D, but a lot of gameplay aspects were sacrificed in the transition to 3D.

The EX moves add in additional hits and moves. For instance, doing one of Kyo's EX moves adds in an air kick and an extra 4 or so hits on to the regular Special move. Sure, we're not talking about 100-hit cheap juggles, but that's not the sort of game KoF is. That's a MvC thing.

As for some characters being the same sprites with switched heads...you clearly haven't played the game for more than 5 minutes. Vice and Mature have COMPLETELY different movesets and stances. One has stretchy arms, for crying out loud. Joe and Hwa share the same "idle" stance, but that's where the similarities end. Their combat styles are very different. Two other similar characters are Ralf and Clark on the Ikari team, but they also play very differently. There aren't any palette swaps or repeat characters in the entire game with the one exception of how Human Saiki and Ash look/play very similarly. I guess I should go on and on about how Ken is just a palette swap of Ryu in MvC3, right? Or how X-23 is just a quicker Wolverine, right? Hurr hurr hurr. Or, more accurately, maybe I should point out how the primary air combo and ground combo for every single character are identical (in terms of pulling it off)? At least KoF makes each character feel unique to play.

[maniacmayhem]

It's obvious you have no idea how game development or time management works so I'll just leave it at that.

I've been playing KoF since 95, so stop that "5 minute" nonsense right there. I have invested a lot in this new KoF. And you saying that every character in MvC3 has the same air combo makes me think that you only played the game for 5 minutes. I can easily spam low jab into a fireball motion or back foward for every character in KoF and pull off a combo.
this means every fighting game has basic combos the challenge is finding the advance set and using them which both mvc3 and kof has.

And what was sacrificed from the transition from 2D to 3D? I would really like to know an answer to that.

"hurr hurr hurr" ??? I have no idea what that means.
did you spasm on the keyboard?

Just because the characters have different move sets doesn't mean their different sprites. Joe, Hwai, Vice and Mature use the same sprites. Hwai uses the same moves as Joe, if you can't see this then I can't help you any further.

[dedicatedtogamers]

Yes, it's "obvious" I know nothing about game development and time management. Or, I simply am not content to make apologies for a developer that cuts corners and milks their franchises. You take your pick.

I'm glad you've invested a lot of time into the new KoF. It's a great game. When I said that every character in MvC3 has the same basic air/ground combos, I'm talking about the controller input to pull of the combo, not the attack itself. I apologize if I didn't make that clear.

"hurr hurr hurr" means that I can make vague, inaccurate generalization about MvC3 just as easily. You said how a lot of the character sprites, supers, and Neo max moves are recycled, to which I sarcastically replied "yeah, and Ken is just a palette swap of Ryu, and X-23 is just a faster Wolverine", pointing out that perhaps you were exaggerating a bit in your claims.

As for Vice and Mature using the same sprites, maybe I'm simply not understanding what you mean.

How is this (Vice): http://www.youtube.com/watc...

The same thing as this (Mature): http://www.youtube.com/watc...

The two characters have different idle stances, different basic combos, and even different rolls iirc. Joe and Hwa, yes, share a lot of attacks and the same basic sprite.

2D fighters feel very different from 3D fighters. Controlling a character in a 3D fighting game like MvC3 feels "bouncy" or even "heavy" like it was in the first SF4 edition, while a 2D fighting game like BlazBlue or KoF13 feels - in my opinion - far more refined in its movements. Please keep in mind that I'm not saying these 3D fighting games are bad. You seem to be taking this way too personally. MvC3 is a phenomenal game, probably my #2 sidescrolling fighting game of this generation. But I still think it lost a bit in its transition from 2D to 3D.

[maniacmayhem]

***Or, I simply am not content to make apologies for a developer that cuts corners and milks their franchises. You take your pick.***

Capcom does milk, i wont argue that. But SNK did the same with KoF XII. That game was an incomplete mess and they sold it at $60 to add insult to injury.

***You said how a lot of the character sprites, supers, and Neo max moves are recycled...***

A lot are, look at Clark's super, now check out is neo max ...what's the difference besides the screen zooming in closer when he back breaks a character. Compare that to past KoF's where at the last moment of the back break he would jump up catch the character and do a back to back suplex.
Another example is Andy Bogard's neo max, all it is is a zai-ei ken up close. There's a lot more but you get the point.

Trust me I'm not taking anything personal, you're the one who resorted to vague, inaccurate generalization "hurr hurr hurr". I seriously had no idea what that meant.

Some of the characters in MvC3 are heavy due to size or weight, but play chun li or x-23 and compare them to Sentinel or Hulk and tell me if chun or x-23 are heavy.

my point is this, capcom has an engine i believed they used the Lost Planet engine. They are not going to waste their time and resources on 2D sprites when 3D can get the samething done faster and with better effects. Try doing the mvc3 style cinematics with 2d sprites whenever you pull off and connect a level 3 super.

And Capcom may be bigger than SNK but that doesn't mean ALL of capcom is working on MvC3. Capcom has other games they are working on like SF X Tekken, Asura's Wrath plus that other fantasy action game which i forget the name of, not to mention anything else we might not know of. They can't afford to have the entire company work on one title.

KoF XIII is a great game but i'm dissapointed that they took out a lot of the characters from XI. Not to mention they reverted almost all the characters to their original move set which to me equels lazy. You don't know how many times I wanted to do a power dunk with Terry.

Edit:
By the way the only difference between Vice and Mature are their head and arms. They do have different move sets, I'm basically talking about the look. When drawing 2D sprites artist engineers usually do them in pieces. I'm sure the artist uses the same torso and legs for both Mature and Vice. The same for Clark and Ralf.
Go into practice mode and switch between those two characters you will see their idle stances are the same.

[maniacmayhem]

What kills me about MvC3 is you have all these characters and yet people play the same character over and over. I swear I play against nothing but Weskers and Dantes. Wesker is on every team I play against. He's a ridiculous character with the easiest assist pop up ever. A special that if blocked puts him at the other side of the screen and safe, not to mention high priority normals.

Not to mention x-factor. I think I would have enjoyed this game more if x-factor was removed. You play the game kicking major a** just so a level three xfactored Hulk just comes in and ruins your team each with one half of a combo.

Not cool capcom.

[unkn0wn]

Obviously you wouldn't agree to this, but simple solution to those problems is buy ultimate. Seriously.

Another suggestion? Learn to fight against Dante and Wesker specifically. Dante is very easy to punish, and Wesker is cake if you know how to block correctly.

[maniacmayhem]

I am talking about Ultimate.

and I have learned to fight against Wesker and Dante. The problem wasn't beating them, the problem is I fight them all the time.

[unkn0wn]

I'm not saying the game is perfect but a lot there were problems with points you bring up

"- A character roster that could’ve easily exceeded 100 characters. Capcom need not to fear about over serving in a title that people still play faithfully 11 years after its inception. If the Dreamcast could handle 56 without breaking a sweat… "
>This one irked me the most in that you don't seem to understand that the fighting style of a lot of the characters were copied and pasted between sprites in MvC2

"- Super-fluid visuals and character animations ala Blazblue. Well over 30 stages can be equipped in a title running on hardware such as the ones currently available. Hand drawn backgrounds would’ve been o.k by the fans I’m sure."
>This confuses me because MvC3(&UMvC3..) is known for retaining its fluidity throughout all the fast-paced fighting. I can agree to the stages to an extent, but it seems at that point your nitpicking, that's just me though.

"- Each character having at least 4 different specials. Characters still recognize each other during gameplay ala MvC 3"
>Each character has at least three, and they all cover a variety of situations. If all the characters all had specials that covered everything, there would be no point in activating one or the other,

"- At least 6 different outfits for all characters. This feat has been attained by them before, changing a color has little to no detrimental effect on processing power"
>Wish granted, there's seven in ultimate. One being an unlockable. Ultimate is only 40 bucks, trade in your old copy for 5-7 dollars and pick up the new one.

[unkn0wn]

"-Kept the same button layout. Their new “Easy Mode” could’ve been the current MvC3 layout. No one would’ve had a problem with an easy mode had they kept the buttons the same"
>To appease the old school players I wouldn't mind this. But the whole thing is seriously overkill. This is one instanced where something "streamlined" was actually for the better. In the end, your still just memorizing button sequences :/

"- Capcom didn’t have to RE-draw every sprite. They simply could’ve added to the already existing ones by tweaking and enhancing them. Suffice it to say, if time was ever an issue with Capcom, this would have not been"
>I've never actually met anyone that would prefer an archaic sprite system over the 3D engine. Kudos.

"- A bevy of modes, bonus stages, trials, mini-games and trophies/achievements would have kept most satisfied for decades"
>I agree with you on this one, however, in a lot of fighting games where different modes are included, they feel stupid and tacked on to be honest. And in ultimate, there's 480 missions. Yeah. Also, if you haven't tried Heroes and Heralds you really should.

"- MvC2 introduced the newest and most robust features of any of the installments before it, the “Assist” feature being the most memorable. MvC3 could’ve expanded on this system by implement features such as choosing which DHC (Delayed Hyper Combo) you wanted to use, instead of just DHCing to the person who happened to be next in your line-up. Choosing whether or not you come out with an attack when switching your partner or maybe even DHCing all of you special bars."
> I don't know what game you're talking about at this point, because if I wanted to choose which person to DHC, I would just put the order in which I would want to do it. Problem solved. Also, you can DHC all your bars, just reset by use of Xfactor. Another problem solved. I don't understand why I wouldn't come out with an attack on a character switch though. That seems like it would be really easy to punish someone who doesn't attack on entry.

" Specific online options could’ve allowed or prevented people from using such new features, or even allowed things like: No assist, specific assist types only, no switching, no X-factor, Turbo modes, no Easy mode, 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2… the list goes on and on"
>This one I agree with 100%

[redDevil87]

Wesker needs more buffs!

[UnSelf]

@unknown

"I don't understand why I wouldn't come out with an attack on a character switch though. That seems like it would be really easy to punish someone who doesn't attack on entry. "

im not sure if this happens in MVC3, but in MVC2 when your character dies the next character simply leaps out the screen instead of shooting out with a kick attack as when you switch. When this happens, you have the ability to hold block or come out attacking. What i implied was imagine being able to come out with the option to block like they do when your lead character dies, at will, instead of ONLY when your character dies. Hope i cleared it up.

"I don't know what game you're talking about at this point, because if I wanted to choose which person to DHC, I would just put the order in which I would want to do it. Problem solved."

your are correct, which is a very smart way of DHCing to the person you want to DHC to. But i feel a more optimum DHC method would be if instead of having the correct line-up to DHC to, imagine you can DHC to any character you want regardless of what order they appear in your line up.

"And in ultimate, there's 480 missions. Yeah. Also, if you haven't tried Heroes and Heralds you really should. "

haha, sadly this article was written wayyyyy before Ultimate came out :P. most of the points stand however.

"- A character roster that could’ve easily exceeded 100 characters. Capcom need not to fear about over serving in a title that people still play faithfully 11 years after its inception. If the Dreamcast could handle 56 without breaking a sweat… "
>This one irked me the most in that you don't seem to understand that the fighting style of a lot of the characters were copied and pasted between sprites in MvC2"

in all honesty dude, real fans of marvel and capcom characters dont really care about trivial things that hardcore fans do. Yes though this game is a true fighting game at its core, MVC2 is known for being the "MK Trilogy" of the VS. series. Clones, similar sprites etc didnt piss no one off as much as you may think it may have. In fact im pretty sure its part of the reason the game is still so heavily played.

You can choose from almost every famous marvel, capcom character and just enjoy that feat in itself. I had ppl who've never played games in their life excited that they can now play as Ironman, War Machine and CA on the same team.

this point is moot however, because part of creating what i label as "The Real MvC3" wouldve been getting rid of clones and having every character unique from each other. You really think that when making MVC2, Capcom was worried about having "too many characters?" They took a chance and it was probably the smartest thing they ever thought of. They shouldve did it again. Ken, Akuma, Sakura, Dan, Ryu all shoto fighters but no one ever gets tired of picking them in their countless iterations. Options, options, options, people love options. If it was up to me there would be 500 characters in this game. Who cares if the hardcore fans aint picking them?? someone will and thats the fan i want to appease

[unkn0wn]

I appreciate the well thought out response to my critiques. I can see how from a different perspective these things may still bother you.