Oh boy.

Neckbear

Contributor
CRank: 9Score: 87220

Morality in videogames, and why it's awful (Most of the time)

Ah, moral choices. We all know them. Usually, in videogames, they're represented as "Good" and "Evil" choices, which fill up one of the two meters for said representations of your choices, and affects the ending/game itself.

However, in the first paragraph of this blog post, I already mentioned a FATAL flaw on these choices- the representation of "Good" and "Evil".

I personally don't consider everything to be "Good" and "Bad". In life, everything is just right in the middle spot. We do certain things because we have to- we don't follow such simple idealisms as being a bad or a good guy. Which is why games absolutely fail at presenting moral choices for you to pick- and why said choices lack emotion -almost- all the time.

Let's grab inFamous for example- without a doubt, a marvelous game. But my only problem with it is how the choices were so transparent- so obvious and so heartless, I just did a "Good" and a "Bad" playthrough of the game. I just couldn't help how shallow these choices felt; how everything lacked a certain human spark, you could say. At the end of the day, the moral system encompassed itself into "hurr i evil" and "hurr i gud".

Another example could be done- now with Mass Effect. It's the same shit. There's two completly two-dimensional choices throughout the whole goddamn game. It makes said choices feel shallow, lack emotion, and overall kill a great deal of immersion the game could have had. Hell, even two choices that seem completly deep and emotional, as well as hopeless overall, are reduced to "Paragon" and "Renegade" points. I won't spoil these for you, but goddamn, it's pathetic.

Honestly, it feels like our society is based on these thoughts; there are "Good" and "Bad" people, even when the world in front of ourselves says otherwise.

Gentlemen, we're all assholes in our lives, even when we don't like to think about ourselves as ones. We also make good descicions and do a few great deeds just to feel better about ourselves. There's no "Good". There's no "Evil". There's just a gray morality that becomes more and more apparent in our daily lives, and that, precisely, is what's lacking in alot of videogames.

Oh- but there's a few great videogames that do so otherwise.

As an example, I could showcase the "Shin Megami Tensei" series.

Y'see, these games usually revolve towards the bases of the end of the world itself, about religions, Gods and Demons. But no, the Gods and Angels aren't "Good" and the Demons aren't "Evil". Yes, you DO pick a side (Although the best path for ANY SMT game is Neutral), but it doesn't makes you seem like you're the best guy ever if you pick the "Law" (Angels and Gods) path or a complete senseless asshole if you pick the "Chaos" (Demons) path.

No- in fact, both paths are awful. Both Angels and Demons are complete selfish assholes, religious groups are usually crazy as fuck; self-lying/convincing circlejerks, and the endings involve either complete madness to the root of nature itself or brainwashed people that lose their freedoms for eternity.

And, see, this is how it should be. Another great example would be The Witcher, for reasons I won't spoil.

We're humans. We're not completly good, we're not completly bad.

There's no evil- there's no good- there's just something in the middle for all of us.

And that is how videogames should present moral choices to us- no good and no evil- just something in between. Some already do; but there's an astonishing majority that doesn't, sadly. And I would like to ask them to stop doing that shallow bullshit.

The Matrix4898d ago

Morality in video games: The annoying thing that makes me have to play twice through a game to get the "complete experience".

Neckbear4897d ago (Edited 4897d ago )

But REPLAY VALUE!

@ThanatosDMC

Yes, I know.

Although I feel J.C. Staff did an horrible job with the Anime's script, making it seem cliche-ridden and completly stupid, at least most of the time.

The novels are kinda better, I tell ya. Well, at least since they're better written and showcase character's emotions better without having to rely to moralfag cliche speechs or tsunderes.

Moreover, what I really liked about the novels is how everyone seems to have a point- a reason why they're doing what they're doing, without caring if they look evil or not (And let's face it, even Touma seems like a huge asshole sometimes) in the reader's eyes, and that's something I liked about it.

ThanatosDMC4897d ago

I'm starting to hate all the justice talk from Touma in the anime. Just punch that b*tch in the face all ready! We all ready know his stance on people hurting innocent people. We dont need to hear another 10 minute drama of it which could have been action scenes.

ThanatosDMC4897d ago

It's Touma's teacher... the thumbnail.

To Aru no Majutsu no Index is a good example of the insane amount of right and wrong which is completely dependent on a person's, culture's, or religion's perspective. Index and Railgun manga have deeper stories though. Wish i could read the novels.

SeraphimBlade4897d ago

Funny you mention The Witcher, I just bought it on Steam. Really looking forward to it.

My problem with Mass Effect is this: being a renegade should just be about playing by your own rules and getting as much power for yourself, but to actually "be" a renegade, you also have to be an uncaring, racist dick.

A good game to mention is Heavy Rain. Yes, the choices rarely have as much impact as they should, but it doesn't label your characters "good" or "evil," you make a choice and suffer the consequences. Simple as that, the way it should be. The "Shark Trial" is an excellent example.

Fable III is the absolute worst when it comes to this. When you become king, you have to raise a certain amount of money or a crap-ton of people are gonna die. But raising all that money means being kind of a dick as king. It's silly because you're considered a "good" person for keeping your promises, even when they cost millions of lives, and "evil" if you don't to save them. I love hard choices like that, but having them be labeled defeats the purpose.

PirateThom4897d ago

I think the problem is that it's too polarised. Good or bad. Games don't reward the person who plays the choices and comes out neutral, the game usually expects you to be a villain or a hero.

Mass Effect 2 had one stand out part where there is a stunning choice where there was no right answer, I won't spoil it, but the choices both had pros and cons, to the point the game totally shifted out of the normal "paragon/renegade" choice pattern and had to explain the consequences of the decisions to you before you made the choice. To me, that's how ALL decisions should be treated, but obviously ried to the narrative better than a pop up box explaining "OMFG THESE CHOICES ARE NOT RENEGADE OR PARAGON TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT!!!" and, ultimately, nothing really felt affected by the choice.

Trroy4896d ago (Edited 4896d ago )

Classic mythology is much the same.

"Gods" are always selfish, and hardly any different from "demons", in an astounding number of ways. That includes modern day ones... the ones that will send you to the bad place for not worshipping their greatness and generally being scared of their awesome power. There's a reason gods and demons are portrayed in child-like fashion in the vast majority of myths and legends. Those stories are meant to teach children the meanings of "right" and "wrong" with respect to living in a society as humans do. They teach by offering an example.

"Gods" act childlike, because they represent the apathy of nature and the natural world to us, as humans -- we're just not "special" in the eyes of nature, nature does what nature does, and that's that. "Demons" represent a descent of human morality into something that is anti-social behavior. Gods, thus, are immortal, and ever present. Demons are destroyed eventually, by their own mistakes, and the self-destructive nature of their behavior. There are special gods that represent human society, and what human society thrives on, and these gods are the ones that are pleased by "good" (i.e. good social) behavior.

Some modern religions have the.. err "touch of man", as it were. Their texts are tainted by the zealots who modified them over the years to serve their own purposes. I guess you could say that many modern religious texts are, at least in part, the "work of the bad guy" (whatever bad guy that might be), in that regard. Everything is pretty gray without a discerning eye, in the end.

I agree that video games, for adults, should not be special, when it comes to morality. They reflect the same ideas ever other media does, and that religion has over the ages. Video games for children, on the other hand, might be better off painting the black and white morality portraits that they always have. The idea of the darker and lighter shades of gray derive from the knowledge of "black" and "white", as it were.

The knowledge that the world, itself, is cast in shades of gray, always comes with time.

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Hellblade 2 is a defining moment in the evolution of real-time graphics | Digital Foundry

The Digital Foundry verdict on the technology of Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2.

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PrinceOfAnger5h ago(Edited 5h ago)

Such a good looking game, best graphics this gen so far

" When the camera zooms in for a close-up, the level of detail is such that it left me guessing whether I was looking at real-time graphics or a pre-rendered cutscene. Thankfully, with Photo Mode being available at any time, you can easily confirm that they are, in fact, real-time.Of course, it's really the animation you experience while playing that impressed me the most. The expressions visible while engaged in combat or simply exploring really help bring the characters to life. "

As a story-focused game, characters and character rendering play a significant role in the presentation. However, while the pre-release media largely focused on Senua herself, Hellblade 2 features a surprisingly large number of other humans. It's without doubt one of the games defining visual features - the character rendering in Hellblade 2 sets new standards, delivering sequences that, at times, almost resemble actual filmed scenes with real actors. This is one of the first examples of a game that stands up against the promise of the UE5 demo The Matrix Awakens. The scenes feel very natural and realistic in a way that manages to somewhat sidestep the uncanny valley almost completely.

Einhander19723h ago

So, the other day I was talking about how DF lies, and their bias. I said cross-reference what they say with other videos and you'll see that what they say is dishonest.

You can see here, that frame-rate is section is hidden near the end of the video and it's one of the shortest sections and of course the segment they show is all 30 fps and they of course don't show any series s footage, but they specifically say it holds 30 FPS "flawlessly".

"It does reach this target flawlessly in my experience with virtually zero hiccups - it runs at 30fps and 30fps is exactly what you'll get from start to finish."

Now watch this video
https://youtu.be/UNwO6WZD0c...
https://youtu.be/UNwO6WZD0c...

Here it drops to 21 fps for example
https://youtu.be/UNwO6WZD0c...

I just used these videos because they were already posted on N4G and Analista De Bits it above questioning about legitimacy, but you can find other people who will also show that the game drops frames regularly, especially on series s.

Petebloodyonion2h ago

OMG! You caught them Lying hard because the game frame dips from time to time to 29 frames per second and at one point it drops for flash at 21 FPS.
Clearly, they are trying to hide something and the 99% of the time that the game holds 30 frames doesn't mean squats in a saying with VIRTUALLY Zero hiccups.

As you can see by the several comments in the video you posted people are venting their anger about how well the Serie S is holding up and how well the game is running across the board

But I guess MS probably paid the users to Shill for MS also since it's your narrative
By the way, let me inform you that 87% of Steam users who got this game are recommending it!
https://store.steampowered....
Must be shilled too right?

darthv722h ago

You're trying too hard... John enjoyed the game and stated as much in his testing.

Einhander19721h ago(Edited 1h ago)

Petebloodyonion

OMG! You caught them Lying hard because the game frame dips from time to time to 29 frames per second and at one point it drops for flash at 21 FPS.

I did catch them lying, thanks for noticing.

The problem isn't me. The problem is that you're O.K. with it because they are lying in a way that supports your personal opinion.

darthv72

Get mad at me because I catch them being dishonest? I'm the bad guy, not the people who are actually lying. Man, the world we live in today is absolutely backwards, it's the bizarro timeline...

If I wanted to take the time I could show you that this isn't the exception, they constantly lie and mislead people in their videos.

HulstWholeSlate35m ago(Edited 32m ago)

But you’d be fine if it was a PlayStation Studios game they were reviewing…

Einhandler is triggered. Can’t handle an Xbox game getting praise. 🤡

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 35m ago
OptimusDK4h ago

Incredible graphics..this is finally next gen graphics. It’s an experience more than a game. You can fault it or accept it and embrace what it gives you. It’s like Sony 1886.

PrinceOfAnger4h ago

(Summary)
- Takes advantage of everything UE5 offers
- Final game 'lives up to the lofty expectations' of the 2019 reveal
- Character rendering sets new standards and nearly resembles movie sequences with actual actors
- Leverages Unreal's Meta Human 5 to bypass the uncanny valley feel
- DF were left guessing whether some cut-scenes were in-game or real life footage (photo mode shows they're all real time)
- Character detail and how light / specular etc reflect on it praised
- A lot of the visual make up is tied to the post-process effects
- No option to disable things like CA, DoF etc but it's all suitable to the games presentation
- Soft filmic image quality and wider FoV praised

Resolution and Visuals:
- DRS 1296 to 1440p (w/ black bars 964 to 1070p). Series S will be covered in separate video
- 'Not sure if adding more pixels would make a difference to the filmic quality'

UE5 Features:
- Lumen is used extensively for direct and in-direct lighting, a lot of real time changes and shadows etc all update accordingly
- 'Phenomenal stuff'
- Lumen does a better job than traditional real time lighting system for indirectly lit areas like under ramps etc
- Lumen reflections used in combination with SSR for water bodies. Some water bodies can show SSR artifacts when moving camera
- 'Anyone looking at the game in motion will be impressed even if they do not understand the technical reasons'
- Unreal's fog is used effectively, fog lights up with light sources and runs at high quality
- Water effects and waves are praised. ' Absolutely stunning'

- Nanite is extensively used and eliminates visible pop-in even during scene transitions
- Minimal repetition or tiling, uses photo-grammatory
- Some assets like tree branches can show low resolution when zoomed in with photo mode, however

- Fine shadow detail is retained even when zooming extremely in thanks to Unreal's Virtual Shadow Maps
- Shadow quality is not always perfect and can show cracks in some instances but very consistent by and large
- Not the first UE5 game to use all these features, but by and far the best looking game to do so.

Performance:
- 30 FPS but the performance is locked and never dropped in John's testing on Series X
- DF tested the game on their Series X - similar - PC to see how much performance could be gained over 30
- 4K with DRS, they were able to stay locked at 30 FPS on High
- DRS 1440p with 60 FPS target sees game play at high 50s with more drops in cut-scenes
- DF thinks based on this test, SX can do 60 FPS with a more aggressive DRS target
- However, PC version can show massive frame time stutters that the Xbox version does not in the same areas
- DF summary: 60 FPS is theoretically possible, but for a stable 60 they might need to drop settings a lot

Audio
- Headphones are needed for Binaural audio effect that the game uses extensively
- DF thinks it is 'incredibly engaging'

Trailer Comparison:
- They compare the Giant fight trailer with the same area in the final game
- Final game has lesser lens distortion and difference in how the flame is lit
- The flames felt more 'fluid' in the demo versus the final game, otherwise no difference in the segment noted

- DF thinks Ninja Theory 'reached their goal'
- Praise the polish, presentation etc.

Obscure_Observer4h ago

Excellent work from Ninja Theory to get the Series X to finally flex it´s 12TF muscles to the max!

Thanks for the summary, @PrinceOfAnger.

Cheers!

PrinceOfAnger3h ago

After all 60fps is possible on series x with tweaking the graphics settings! :)

Lightning771h ago

They hate those facts very much lol.

darthv724h ago

If they achieved this level of quality their first time using UE5... I can't wait to see what their next game is going to look like.

PhillyDonJawn2h ago

Remember the trailer release and ppl didn't think it was insane footage cause it looked too good

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