Fanboy Mindset on the Internet

Hey, guys, it's been a long while since I posted a blog comment on this site. My previous posts were about games and digital distribution and equality. This post is mostly about a disturbing trend I've observed on this site and how it has affected me as an individual. Firstly, I just want everyone to know that I am not a fanboy, but that I have become susceptible for fanboy arguments recently because I've become increasingly frustrated with certain people on this website, some of whom have decided to come back again and again under different profiles.

So this website is basically a bastion of argument between people who like Sony and people who like Microsoft, with the occasional appearance of people who are PC gamers and people who are Nintendo fans. Now, there's a difference between liking something in a healthy way and liking something in an unhealthy way. In my opinion, liking something in a healthy way generally means that you possess the ability to detach yourself from that thing you like, and have the ability to like other things in addition to that thing you like. Liking something in an unhealthy way means your devote your focus to that thing, you praise that thing unnecessarily and too often, you seldom talk about anything else, you criticize competing things or you pit other things against the thing you like and often ensure that what you like comes out to be the winner in any argument.

I'm talking about fanaticism. Winston Churchill described a fanatic as someone who can't change their mind and won't change the subject. By this definition, we can all be to an extent fanatical about someone or something. But the key modifier is the inability to change the subject. So, it's okay for someone to always like or believe one thing, but if they can't talk about anything other than that thing, then there's something wrong with them.

I have for as long as I've been a posting member of this site, been accused of being a fanboy for one console or the other, and recently have been accused of being a PC elitist. It's natural for people to compartmentalize - to place people into easily identifiable and understandable categories in order to know how to approach them. But some people on this site take that and run very far with it.

Here's a real example that just happened very recently (today) and compelled me to write this blog post. In an article titled "The Xbox 360 Will Die before the Xbox 720 Comes Out," a user that goes by the name of "yesmynameissumo" wrote:

"Remember how the PSPGo was a digital download only test? With PSP-3000s and other UMD models still on the market selling well (better)? Sony killed the Go, not the PSP. Huge difference in the comparison, which is also a little weak imo."

I replied to "yesmynameissumo" with a post that read:

"People don't like being treated as beta testers.
If the PSPGo was merely Sony's way of testing digital distribution then they shouldn't have priced it so high."

"yesmynameissumo" replied back with:

"360 owners were beta testers of hardware for almost 5yrs. People don't like what?"

Now, there's something very important to take away from this user's post. Firstly, he changed the subject, and secondly, he changed the subject to Microsoft and the Xbox 360. He decided not to say anything in direct response to my post, but rather to hurl a criticism at the Xbox 360. His way of defending Sony is to attack Microsoft and the Xbox 360. Isn't that strange? This is an example of fanboyism. Now, many might think, "but Kaveti, why do criticize Sony?" Good question. Why do I criticize Sony. My answer to that is this: I come to this website in between reading and doing homework (basically, it's my form of procrastination) and one thing that shocks me about the people on this site is just how brainwashed they all seem. And so, because I often see people praising every little thing Sony does and defending every move and every press release and every little thing, I find myself taking the opposing side. I don't mean to criticize Sony or the PS3.

I don't really care. Personally, I am sitting in front of my PS3 right now (it's set up below my TV) and my 360 is packed away in the closet with little chance of being opened again until Halo 4. But what people need to realize about me is that I am not, in any way shape or form a 360 fanboy or an MS fanboy. "yesmynameisssumo" assumes that I am a 360 fanboy, so he responded to my comment by attacking the 360.

The fanboys on this site seem to think, "either you're with us or you're with them." The truth is, I am against both of you. Now I use the term "against" very lightly here, because I don't really aim to attack fanboys every chance I get. It's not why I'm here. But I do find myself wasting an enormous time on people who are completely, utterly, hopelessly brainwashed.

And as I've mentioned before in comments, people tend to see what they want to see. Some people look at my username and automatically associate me with 360 fanboy because they recall a post where I criticized Sony. It's human nature. I'll give another example of something that was said today. In an article titled "Sony promised a 10 Year Life Cycle for the PS3," I wrote a comment that I didn't think Sony truly supported the PS2 for ten years because they shifted their software development to the PS3 in 7 years. Now, I got a lot of disagrees for that comment and quite a few replies from people saying that "support" means that Sony continues to sell the PS2. This is merely a difference of opinion on what "support" means. That aside, a user named "DragonKnight" commented to my second post saying:

"Please don't respond to kaveti. He just loves to go against the grain, I can't really recall a comment I've seen him make (no, I don't go through comment histories to prove points, that's sad) that is positive."

Now, I've got a problem with this. If a user is going to make a judgment about someone's character, why would that user then say that he refuses to check the comment history to prove his point? If you're going to make a claim, use evidence, please. Don't think you're above it. If people would check my comment history, they would see that I make plenty of negative comments about Microsoft and the Xbox 360, but because of confirmation bias, people tend to see only what confirms that preconceptions. So if people think I'm a 360 fanboy, then the information they remember best is posts I've made that are critical of Sony and the PS3, and they will tend to ignore and/or forget posts that I've made that are critical of the 360 and Microsoft. Just a few days ago I criticized Microsoft's customer service for trying to lure me into extending my XBL membership when the reason I called them was to cancel my membership. But PS3 fanboys tend to think that everyone other than them on this site must be either a 360 fanboy or a PC elitist. And it works the same way for the other types of fanboys (360 fanboys think everyone else is a PS3 fanboy or PC elitist, etc).

This explains why "yesmynameisssumo" responded to my comment about Sony with a negative comment about the 360. This user seems to think that I somehow would be affected by this comment. Well, in a sense he's right because his comment prompted me to write this blog post. But his reasoning is wrong.

I know that I'm not the only one who's bothered by this constant aggression on N4G. A person can't say something critical of a company without igniting the ire of some fanboy for some hunk of plastic. Now, so far I've really only made mention of PS3 fanboys and the reason for that is merely my perception of the site. I could very well be wrong, but I do believe N4G is by far home to more PS3 fanboys than 360 fanboys. And oftentimes when someone says how terrible the PS3 fanboys are, a PS3 fanboy will say, "You should have been here in 2007. The 360 fanboys were worse and now it's payback time."

Payback time, yes. Unfortunately, people like me are caught in the blindfire, and sometimes we become aggressive too. I lost a bubble yesterday or perhaps the day before when I entered a thread about Skyrim and said "Brand loyalty disgusts me" in response to a user who was calling for a boycott of Skyrim altogether simply because the PS3 version isn't up to scratch. And so I replied:

"If there are gamers that have both consoles then why would you promote a boycott of the game entirely? It runs well on the 360 and PC. Seems like a butthurt response. Brand loyalty disgusts me."

I got marked for trolling for that comment. The person who made the comment that Skyrim should be boycotted altogether got a multitude of agrees and reaffirmed by opinion that this website has more PS3 fan(boy)s than other kinds.

Here's another interesting tidbit. I'm sure I'm not the only one who notices when a seemingly unfamiliar user posts a comment that sounds so fanboyish, I decide to check the user's profile and see that they joined just a day ago or just a few hours ago and have posted maybe 25 comments in the last few hours. This situation occurred to me a couple of days ago when a user who goes by the name "TurretKiller" was marked down for trolling and he complained about it so I responded that he had only been a member for 2 days and was already making trouble.

Keep in mind that by this day he has joined 9 days ago. Now, he responded to my comment about him with this:

"I remember when you used to have 5 bubbles, how the mighty fall"

I sighed immediately upon reading this sentence because TurretKiller had either deliberately or unwittingly made it known to me and the rest of the users that he is indeed a multi-account user. I know this because I haven't had 5 bubbles for a very long time, since N4G renovated their site and decided to rest everyone back to 3 bubbles, I think (of course since then I've alternated between 3 bubbles and 4 and now down to 2).

I was very frustrated by this user and am very frustrated that there are many people on this site who create new accounts after being de-bubbled to 1 and then continue on trolling with their new accounts, acting as if they haven't done anything wrong.

A lot of people don't call attention to these "new" users, but whenever one of them says something extremely fanboyish, I make it a point to respond to their comment with "joined so and so days ago" or joined "so and so hours ago."

Fanboyism is something that really irks me, so much so that I find myself stooping to the level of these fanboys, and often this is an issue because I may come across as a fanboy in the process. If I say something negative about Sony, please don't assume that I give a damn about Microsoft or that I somehow want Sony to "fail", and vice versa. And please, to all the fanboys here: just stop being that way. This might be the only place where your existence is tolerated. I know the internet gives everyone a sense of anonymity, but that's not going to last, and everyone knows that in the back of their minds. Where will you go when that day comes?

[Chaostar]

Aww, I was all set to read another whiny blog about losing a bubble or not having a submission approved but then you had to go and be all logical and insightful.

I understand the contrarian urge very well and have also been pulled into a few, less than savory, arguments. I lost my bubbles in an ill-advised attempt at humour that went a little against the N4G commandments.

We've all been on the barrel end of the 'attack is the best form of defence' response and, 9 times out of ten, it means you just won that argument.

I know the ignorance on display is sometimes overwhelming but it really is sometimes best to just let it slide. As for the ability to get your true opinion across without tempting a fanboy backlash, well, I'm not sure that's possible here to be honest.

[DeeZee]

You seem intelligent, just ignore all the childish people on the site. The trick is to only comment on stories you really care about, that's what I do. Actually, I don't even read the comments for about 90% of the stuff here (including the ones for things I've written on my site). Because most of the time you'll just find yourself in a fight if you try to be fair and logical.

[coolbeans]

Certainly an exceptional read but I'm worried about specifically naming certain posters in blogs on this site. Normally, blogs seem to be exclusive to the poster's submission catalog (or it's highlighted if you follow that poster) on other gaming sites whereas they're on the front page on this site-until new ones come in.

Question: Are there written rules I may have missed regarding this?

[lorianguy]

Well put. Thanks for that interesting read :)

Fanboys are irritating little kids who defy logic to get their way. I even have an anatomy picture ;) (May have to zoom in)

[mynameisEvil]

For those of you wondering what the picture says (Took a bit of effort, even with my perfect vision)...

Brain: Devoid of any reason or critical thinking skills, very ape-like in size and shape.

Ears: Their finely tuned ears are capable of tuning out facts and others' opinions.

Heart: Upon study, we found no trace of a heart present, we think they run on sheer arrogancy!

Lungs: We found nothing but hot air and a lot of negativity.

Bowels: Full of Mountain Dew and Cheeto residue.

Hands: Covered in calluses and smelling of lotion. Weird!

(Pointing at dick-area) Empty: *blank space*

[lorianguy]

Thanks for that :)

It was 3 times the size of that originally but I don't think N4G will allow it any bigger :/

[Christopher]

***I know that I'm not the only one who's bothered by this constant aggression on N4G.***

That's pretty much every single gaming site on the Internet. Heck, that's pretty much the Internet.

I know it's easy to put all the blame on N4G, but the blame is on the Internet and the well known Greater Internet ****wad Theory.

[DeeZee]

I agree, looking at comments on sites like IGN and YouTube are just as bad, if not worse. It'll never change. People say stupid stuff because they know a nonsensical, and untraceable handled is attached to it, not their real name.

[kaveti6616]

You're right. I meant to say that since I usually frequent this forum rather than youtube and other gaming sites, I'm bothered most by the aggression here. With youtube, I generally just watch the video and maybe read the top comments which are usually humorous, but with N4G I tend to read the comments in the thread because I assume that since this is a gaming site the comments will revolve around a common interest.

I'm surprised this blog post was approved.

[Tuxedo_Mask]

I don't know why you're bothering to complain about this. Yes, some people can be immature sometimes, myself included, but as this is a community based site it will sway with the community.

As for your comment on Skyrim that was marked as trolling, it looks like a trolling comment to me. You may own a PS3 and a 360 and have no dog in the fight, but what you wrote could have been interpreted as emphasizing the fact that the PC and 360 versions were stable while the PS3 version had issues. Was it true that the PS3 version of Skryim had issues? Yes, but that statement added with the following two sentences of your comment implied that you were relishing that fact, even if you weren't.

I'm not saying N4G is perfect, but it seems to work pretty well to me.

[DragonKnight]

"If a user is going to make a judgment about someone's character, why would that user then say that he refuses to check the comment history to prove his point? If you're going to make a claim, use evidence, please. Don't think you're above it."

My evidence is the existence of this blog, the fact that you admit to posting negatively because of the ironic position you take of disliking negativity and the contradictory position of playing "Devil's Advocate" by posting negatively to people who are posting positively because you see it as blind devotion.

My evidence is the comments you made in the very thread from which you took my comment from. Besides, I wasn't trying to make a claim, I was stating what was clearly obvious and adding my own experience with the posts I've seen you make. You make negative posts, you constantly go against the grain. If people want proof of it, they can look through your comment history themselves because I don't have to. I see it all the time, thus there is no reason to "get anyone on my side" as it were and prove that you make antagonistic posts, and I'm not using antagonistic in the confrontational sense of that word.

You dislike the confrontational nature of this site and blame it on fanboyism? Then why do you contribute to the very problem you don't like on more than just an occasional "oh I just can't take this anymore" basis? It's one thing to post a comment every now and then decrying fanboyism, it's another thing to consistently be negative, act the part of a fanboy and say you're not one, and contribute to the very problem you then complain about.

Whatever, it's your rights to say and complain about whatever you want, but it seems redundant to be both a part of the problem and complaining about it.

[kaveti6616]

I agree, but in my defense, becoming part of the problem was not of my choosing, and constantly bringing up fanboys is merely my mechanism against it. I did not mean to become part of the problem, and this blog post was somewhat about my regret about becoming part of the problem.

But I still think that your claim is somewhat wrong. There are times when I'll see a user post a really negative comment that seems fanboyish, and so I'll check their comment history (just the 5 most recent posts) to see if they do this consistently, and I'm sometimes surprised to find that they don't. So I don't jump down people's throats every time they say something negative. It's my attempt at being fair. But as I said in my blog post, there are other people who don't extend the same courtesy, which is why I've been alternately labeled a 360 fanboy and a PS3 fanboy and a PC fanboy based on one post that I make. People are very dismissive in that respect. They judge others based on one post. But I make an effort not to do that.

And if you check my comment history, I don't actually consistently contribute to the problem. I occasionally contribute to the problem. But you won't check my comment history, because that would "sad."

[Why o why]

Nice piece. Wish i was here when you initially posted it. I feel its one persons viewpoint filled with one persons experiences and i guess thats all you can provide but we all know your preference and thats not a problem but a little more balance would be kool. Im sure somebody could write a blog with your comments in it to prove their own point, i know for sure you could of used some of my comments directed at you;) A bit of balance or more objectivity would of been nice. Im sure you've witnessed the counter side to your experiences but again..its only fair that you've put your own but if you think some of that 2007 element aren't present AND strong then you are lying to yourself. What really surprises me is that you have 2 bubbles. I say this because MOST of the mods i assume have a preference towards the pc and 360 and ive had some strange conversations with some of them both in topics and through tickets and whatnot...Thought you would of been protected *wink wink*

I think theres a bubble cap for some people. I called somebody a punter and lost a bubble and had my comment marked as x.. After querying my comments disappearance i was tolled.... 'Dont troll and you wont be marked as trolling... what kind of bs circular reasoning is that..lol. Anyway I've spoilt your solid blogpiece by digressing but will look forward to your next one should you do another. Nice one +1

[PCE]

Well yes telling everyone to boycott Skyrim just because they release a bad port for a particular system is stupid, however Bethesda has no excuse to release a defective game and singling out any platform. Anyone has the right to be pissed off as I am currently as $60 came out of gamers' pockets to play on a system of their choice. Me and my GF own the game on PC and my brother plays the PS3 version, I play Skyrim on PS3 as well for the trophies. We both have lag issues (we both have our own PS3s) to the point the game becomes virtually unplayable, and thanks to no mod support for consoles we have to sit around and wait for BUGthesda to repair the game via some mythical patch that will never come, no matter how many times Bugthesda claims they'll address it. I am to the point I demand a refund or some compensation for our copy of the PS3 version or I'll engage in a lawsuit against Bugthesda for releasing defective products that warrant a recall.

And quite frankly I am getting sick and tired of watching my favorite hobby being butchered by the very same people that built it.

[Hyperbomb69]

Why the hell did Megaman_nerd get tagged for trolling? He wasn't even trolling he's just telling it like it is...SMFH

[coolbeans]

Did you even read his second paragraph? It's completely unrelated to what kaveti's arguing about.

[DragonKnight]

Did you? If you had, you'd have seen he was framing his argument about how kaveti whines about how the site is, but contributes to the problem in the same way he hates. He's telling kaveti that he can whine and complain about fanboyism all he wants and it's not going to change anything, especially since you can't change people's opinions and also when you're contributing to the problem.

People here don't know what trolling means. They down vote as trolling when the other options won't work because it's become a buzz word for someone who says something disagreeable.

Trolling is being an a$$hole just because you can, because it's the internet and no one can do anything to you. It's purposely making remarks against the majority consensus for the purposes of relieving boredom a.k.a. "for teh lulz." Megaman_nerd's post was nothing like that.

This is yet another reason the bubble system DOESN'T WORK!

[coolbeans]

@ DragonKnight

"You can state your opinion and even include some facts of why XBL is better than PSN but that's not gonna change what I think. For me the fact that you can play on PSN for free is a really huge and very important feature so no matter how much you try to convince me that cross-game chat this or universal party that is better that's not gonna change anything even if everything you just stated is a fact." - Megaman_nerd

There's no way this could be considered a decent way of framing an arguement. Retorting to a blog with an example of "my opinion is PSN is better than XBL b/c it's free" has nothing to do with the topic at hand; however, the first paragraph does. If I recall, I believe mods have to give the final word as to whether or not they bubble down/up someone. If you don't agree with their definition of 'trolling', take it up with them.

[Christopher]

Megaman_nerd wrote: "This blog only proves that you're a fanboy..."

Nope, definitely not trying to elicit a negative response there.

[smashcrashbash]

Another blog complaining about fanboys. I swear there are more people complaining about fanboys then their are fanboys. I never understand why people take it personally when people don't want to listen to what they say.Not everyone cares or wants to listen to what you hate or what you think should happen.

That is life. Because you think what you have to say is so important doesn't mean that other people think so. If People don't want to listen or act idiotic, then move on.There will always be ignorance and arrogance. In a way Megaman_nerd is right. People act on this site as if it is their job to convert gamers or something.

You speak your mind whether you get reported for trolling or get nasty remarks or a million disagrees and leave it at that. I don't like where Nintendo has reached from where they used to be during the days of the SNES and I say so. Of course a million and one Nintendo fans will jump to toss me disagrees and form a defense wall but so what?

Giving your opinion is just that. If people disagree, or don't believe what you say or see some type of bias in your statement or something you said wrong don't want to see you side of it they are not obliged to do so.

[Silly gameAr]

kaveti has written some pretty fanboyish comments himself. I find it kind of funny that he would write something like this.

I do agree with you about the multiple accounts. It's really childish how some people will make whole new accounts just to troll certain people or products.

[JD_Shadow]

The main issue I have with this is that you have done what so many others have done on this site when bringing this up, and that is that you never bring up any time when a 360 fanboy on this site does stuff like that. It's like people don't believe 360 fanboys exists or, if they do, don't become as immature as the PS3 fanboys do. I can't understand this as to why people believe 360 fanboys are just good little angels on this site. There are so many I can name on this site that cross the line in the name of the 360, but yet, they never really get called out when these types of blogs come out. It might be because you've only experienced the issue with the PS3 side (and this past year was bad for them with how they acted about Geohot and jailbreaking. Good LORD, post after post of wishing death or horrible acts of violence to be done to people and then whine when they get called out on it), but it happens on the 360 side, as well.

[coolbeans]

From the blog: " I could very well be wrong, but I do believe N4G is by far home to more PS3 fanboys than 360 fanboys. And oftentimes when someone says how terrible the PS3 fanboys are, a PS3 fanboy will say, 'You should have been here in 2007. The 360 fanboys were worse and now it's payback time.'"

Kav doesn't fail to recognize there are major 360 fanboys on here as well.

[Titanz]

I lost 3 bubbles for non-trolling reasons, and certain poster's get rewarded for trash talking Microsoft, or Nintendo articles. This site is heavily, "one sided" and moderators need to do a better job at regulating the rules.

It's the ultimate form of censorship, under a bullsh*t Sony regime.

[Gazondaily]

Its a herculean task juggling being a 360 fan and trying to hold on to your bubbles, let alone gaining more. I know this.

I would suggest ignoring the fanboys but, I myself always seem to get suckered into a retort. I suspect that I'll end up with one bubble in the end, but I'd rather have some integrity as opposed to lubing myself up for the mob.

[PooEgg]

I really enjoyed reading this blog post. Thank you for taking the time to share your opinion.

In general I try to be an open minded and respectful person, but there are certain subjects that push my buttons and ignorance is at the very top of my list. My biggest problem with fanboys is that many of them have no idea what they are talking about. You see people who have obviously never touched a certain game console, going on an on about how horrible that game console is. I just don't get it.

I also hate people who leave zero reviews on Metacritic for games that they have obviously never touched. Whenever I see that I just shake my head and feel just a little bit embarrassed about sharing a hobby with such completely childish people.

Regardless of the over abundance of fanboys here, I still like N4G a lot. Sure it has annoying fanboys of all types, but it is also the one place where I know that I will find all the news about gaming in one place. To me that makes ignoring the nonsense a bit easier.