Why Microsoft will win this gen

Since the end of 2013 there has been a fierce battle as to who will rise victorious at the end of this gen of consoles. Visit any gaming forum and you will see a battle like no other between fans of the various gaming consoles screaming as to who they think will win this galactic war. The competition has never been fiercer and thankfully it has been to the benefit of us gamers. The slug fest (if you wish to call it that) between the xbox one and the ps4 has been a battle of epic proportions with no clear winner in sight (as long as you choose to ignore sales). One can only feel sorry for Nintendo who seems content to sit on the side-lines as they realise they just can’t compete with these two heavyweights.

Back and forth the two titans swing their fists at each other in a battle that has seen the introduction of features and games that their respective fans have been clamouring for. Determining who is winning is difficult due to conflicting reports depending on whose fans you ask. But can one determine for themselves? Is it possible to know who will win this epic battle long before the bell rings? Initially I would have said that the ps4 would reign supreme (based on being over 10miilion ahead in sales after only two years), but due to the information that has come to light I have no choice but to change my stance. I can now declare with confidence that the xbox one WILL win this gen.

I know this may come as a shock to some of you, as it was for me, but if you give me a minute to explain you will also see the logical reasoning behind this change of heart. After having many discussions online with many diehard xbox fans and observing many comment sections, I have come to realise that Microsoft has one thing that will guarantee their victory this gen that sony cannot and will never be able to compete with, leprechauns.

You see, I have come to understand, based on the many, many comments I have seen and discussions I have had, that Microsoft has a never-ending pot of gold that is kept safely in a special vault somewhere. This pot cannot be emptied and it is the source of microsoft’s wealth. I never understood before when I saw people constantly say that “Microsoft has unlimited money” , “Microsoft can afford to take a loss on hardware for years”, “Microsoft has no problem losing millions on the xbox division” and “Microsoft doesn’t mind losing millions just to beat sony”.

I never understood before why anyone would make such an insane statement, at least not until I decided to do a little digging myself to find the reasoning behind this line of thinking. You see I always thought that Microsoft and its investors actually cared about losing money and that they made their billions by doing smart business and aiming for profits. But now I have come to understand that none of that had anything to do with it. It was all because of leprechauns and their pots of gold. Thinking about it now, all that talk about investors being dissatisfied with the xbox performance was pure hogwash. That was probably a rumour started by some sony fans in order to scare major Nelson into finding a new job.

There is nothing that sony can do to combat this magic. It is widely known that sony only has about $50,000 in their bank account and that the only reason they are still in business is due to it being mandatory that all employees sell knockoff rolex watches on the side of the street on weekends. It is common knowledge that the ps4 business is supporting all other sony divisions. How else would they be able to keep open their financial services, their semiconductor manufacturing plants, the movie and music studios, the phone and television divisions and their electric vehicles and batteries departments. If it wasn’t for us gamers buying a $400 gaming console and spending 60 bucks every few months (not counting the psn flash sales every now and again) sony would be gone.

There is nothing and I mean NOTHING that sony can do to compete with those Microsoft leprechauns. It’s one thing to have a lot of money but going up against a competitor that has an unlimited supply of wealth is suicide, plain and simple. Regardless, I will enjoy my ps4 no matter how short a time we have, and I will enjoy watching to the end this epic battle of the giants, even though I know one of them will soon use the 10000000 karat gold 2x4 tucked secretly away in their trousers.

[Letthewookiewin]

Lol. This was perfect.

[Gazondaily]

Hehe it was funny and it is quite painful seeing some think that MS has unlimited reserves for the Xbox division.

Thing is, MS does have more economic wiggle room Sony but not the infinite amount of leprechaun sourced gold nuggets people think. It has to be just as cautious as Sony in deciding how and where to dedicate those funds to. This is a business after all.

But people have been viewing winning through a laser focus on sales but what MS has done with the MS brand so far, especially when you compare it to what has to be the most blundered launches by a major console manufacturer, it is mighty impressive.

If MS carries on straddling behind Sony in sales (which I see happening for the entirety of this gen) but continues to release the kind of games it is doing with as much diversity as next year and this real focus on gamers throughout, then MS will have won this generation for me. That, of course, is assuming Sony play it safe and you would be silly to think they would rest on their laurels.

2016 will be a VERY bitter fight between the two but it will be glorious. Microsoft is the underdog and it's a great 'fight' to watch for us spectators, particularly those with both consoles. That truly is winning because then you as a gamer ultimately become the arbiter in deciding who has won anything.

[donthate]

The thing is that MS Xbox division is making money and isn't having it's resources drain away. If the division needs cash, well MS replenishes it within reason.

In contrast, Sony is on the verge of bankruptcy. Their loans i.e. bonds are rathed junk status. The Playstation division is almost single highhandedly propping up all their other divisions (as much as it can). Resources are being diverted away from Playstation division so I expect the path Sony has laid out will continue as is.

Gakai is going to be a writedown soon as PS Now isn't panning out, and I hope Project Morpheus works out otherwise they are in a bad bad place despite the massive success of PS4.

I think there is a chance MS can reach parity with Sony in US/UK, but the rest of the world I think MS will have to just be satisfied with any marketshare gain they can get.

[indysurfn]

Yes, Microsoft has WAY more money. Yet Sony, and Nintendo keep outspending them. Does not help to have wealth your taking to your grave. Did not help Microsoft with anything except the original xbox. Since then they have stayed in third place.

There is only one software company Microsoft did not ruin within a few years of buying them. And that WAS Bungie(halo). And even they said enough was enough and left.

[Persistantthug]

Fun read.
But the truth is, is that neither Microsoft Corp nor their Gold spitting Leprechauns can afford to support the XBOX GAMES division indefinitely. As proof of that, if Microsoft Corp was willing to, they COULD HAVE bought their favorite bride/lady ,Bioware, when they were for sale, but they didn't. Why? Because while it is true Microsoft Corp has Leprechauns........Microsoft GAMES does not.
Also, as a side note, I'll just say that Microsoft doesn't really win anything unless it has a monopoly.

[Godmars290]

Would think that if the unlimited money pot had and vitality to it they wouldn't have shut down their movie studio plans before really beginning them. That always online and kinect being required were central to the plans around it.

[dcbronco]

Thug it's interesting how you use Microsoft not buying Bioware as an example of limited funds from years ago while ignoring the purchase of Mahjong just last year for three times the price. It wasn't about money, it was about perceived value. And in business profitability is winning. In your book Samsung must be doing terrible because Apple sells more phones.

Mars shutting down the studio had nothing to do with money. Microsoft got a new CEO. It is almost guaranteed a new CEO will make changes they believe are not what the company should be doing. Nadella is mistaken in my opinion because considering consoles are used half the time for other things with streaming being the biggest having exclusive content is a very important part of your console.

Nadella was shortsighted and has one of the greatest content minds running what's left of the studio and he should be using it. Most gamers probably have Netflix but don't realize Netflix would probably have gone out of business if it wasn't for their exclusive content.

The content providers got together to destroy Netflix by trying to setup their own services like Hulu but shows like House of Cards and shows plus smart exclusivity deals for foreign content have made Netflix a media powerhouse. Microsoft has the person who made CBS a network powerhouse and they should be using her. The money was already set aside so there was no loss attached to letting her try a few years. You can produce a lot of TV shows with a billion dollars. A billion gets you about fifteen seasons of Game of Thrones and that is an expensive show to produce.

[donthate]

@Godmars290:

Shutting down the movie studio is more about the direction and the vision Phil Spencer and Satya Nadella created.

Less about finances and more about focus.

MS might have more cash than most companies, and they are willing to spend it, but there is a limit. Where do you divert your staff's attention?

That is why MS is doing so good lately, because they are focused on the gamers and it shows!

Just look at what they did:

* best console game lineup in console history for 2015 and 2016
* new dashboard
* backwards compatible games
* monthly feature updates
* all GwG free games are BC as well
* awesome cloud technology with Crackdown 3
* Windows 10 integration with Xbox One
* DX12
* Windows 10 gaming focus
* HoloLens
* Xbox One Elite console and controller for the core gamers

and the list just goes on and on.

MS productivity is just unrivaled it seems in the gaming industry right now.

[Godmars290]

"Mars shutting down the studio had nothing to do with money."

BS. It had everything to do with their online plans falling apart. The whole point of the studio was to create in-house content to justify XBL Gold for non-gamers as well as plans for Kinect that would have made it into a marketing research resource, broad info gathering which they would have sold off to advertisers while also offering achievement points and other rewards. That was where they were going to make their money from the studio, and that's why it was shut down when the original plans fell apart.

Nevermind that the point of my original comment was to point out that MS doesn't have a bottomless pit full to the brim with money.

[dcbronco]

Mars your argument makes zero sense. Microsoft can still do analytics without Kinect. Just like a cable company does with a cable box. The analytics part of Microsoft's plan is alive and well and is far more about snap than Kinect. The ability to have a sidebar that gets user feedback in real time is what advertisers want. It was simply a matter of Nadella being a strictly business oriented mind instead of Ballmer who oversaw the entire field.

If you look at the stupidity of investors that almost doubled Microsoft's stock value because Ballmer left even though the movie studio was the only real change Nadella made. Ballmer's been gone a year but people act as if universal apps and Azure were built overnight. Those were Ballmer. Nadella was the head of Enterprise services but Ballmer was the head of the company.

I do understand that the cloud is estimated to reach over a trillion dollars in potential revenue for companies, but Nadella is missing the point that innovation in computing is often pushed by gaming. AMD and Microsoft have been working together on the APU since 2004. That is now paying off for both of them and us. And Nadella's cloud. But half of the time spent on those consoles is spent on videos and music. Netflix showed even a financially starving company could be transformed into a powerhouse with exclusive content. Microsoft started out with a billion. Netflix has its hands around the throat of the very people that tried to strangle it. They did the same to Microsoft with content with music in the beginning. The networks and cable are dying, only a fool doesn't see owning your own content matters more in gaming on video than on games. Video is far cheaper and the returns far greater when you hit.

And Microsoft is looking for something to do with their profits. They have had a problem for several years trying to figure out what to do since they have already purchased just about everything they could think they wanted. See attempt to get AOL and the 30 billion they suddenly gave to shareholders a few years ago because they didn't know what else to do with it.

[Why o why]

So from what im seeing people disagreeing to, MS has its unlimited cash cheat turned on....since some beleive that, I'll run with that for a moment. What MS lack is the courage or the knowhow to grow their own. They had the same infinite cash cheat on last gen yet they outputted substantially less games than sony and they'd at least need to output more than sony to stand a chance of 'winning ' this gen.

Reality is theres more to winning than just having unlimited funds... just ask ms themselves. This is their 3rd attempt and its easily dispelled the myth that loot is all thats needed.

[Xavior_Reigns]

God help the trolls if Windows and Office ever flop! Mercy Lord Spencer!! (Go ahead and mark me for trolling again, still buying a XBO this holiday, but yep I hate MS.)

[rainslacker]

Humourous sarcasm is always fun. Too bad it's usually lost on those who don't read past the title and maybe the first couple paragraphs.

To address your blog on a serious note though, the winner is rarely decided until after the gen is over, or when it's approaching the end. Last gen could have been neck and neck...a first for consoles, but it all depends on how you look at it.

Looking at things now, Sony will win, but things change over time. However, almost 2 years in, it's hard to imagine a shift in consumer trends when one console has become pretty entrenched.

At this point, it's not really MS exclusives that will let it win, it will be some screw up on Sony's part to put people off the PlayStation brand. No matter how people may want to believe it, there is no way that the console that has never been as popular as the others will suddenly overtake and become more relevant within the course of a few months. It takes years to right a course in the consumer market, and by then, the next gen will likely be on the cusp of announcement.

It's just the reality of it. If MS was going to do something to "win" the generation, they would have had to have done it already. Spencer's promotion, and subsequent change in course was the attempt at getting this to happen, but I think people today are looking at it on the short term, and not the long term. Everything that Spencer is doing now is to keep the XBox brand relevant and in the news, so when the next gen comes, they can come out swinging with really aggressive competition. They're establishing their brand...in a better way than before...and much of what they're doing now is how Sony has been for a while. Sony has been mostly silent, just letting the products push the brand, while MS has had to to act like a wacky waving inflatable tube man for people to pay attention.

MS did good last gen by making the brand relevant, and then screwed it all up in one day....maybe some before if you want to consider their shift towards the casual. They're still suffering for that, and I think they pretty much handed the gen to Sony since Nintendo just don't seem to care. Now they're basically starting over this gen to make their image as a place to play, and hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes and not act like they are so awesome that people will just lap up whatever crap they put out...because it was made blatently obvious it won't happen.

Spencer's current direction with the brand is great...but realistically, the problem with Xbox was never the games....ever, it was always MS itself.

[stuna1]

Well said, you wrapped every thing up nicely and even added a cute lttle bow.

[johndoe11211]

Unless sony ROYALLY screws up (or microsoft starts giving away xbox ones) I think it's pretty safe to call a winner for this gen. But hey, like I said in my article, microsoft will probably decide to give away 20 million free xbox ones because of their unlimited supply of money I always hear people talking about.

[muzikjunkie80]

microsoft giving away free xbox ones woulnt be to unrealistic imo, if you read up about the original xbox before it launched microsoft actually contemplated giving away the consoles for free and making money of the software sales for it to compete with sony and nintendo.

anything is possible.

[johndoe11211]

@muzikjunkie80

Exactly! As long as those leprechauns continue to spit gold out of those pots the investors would have absolutely no issue with microsoft just giving away 3.5 billion dollars worth of merchandise. That's what I've been told by many xbox supporters and it makes complete sense to me.

A lot of people believe that these investors are in this to make money but that's not true. They're actually in this to fell good about themselves and make the public happy. They just want that warm fuzzy feeling inside. What's even better, I fully expect them to give away a free copy o f halo 5 and forza 6 with those systems because....you know.....it's microsoft.

[freshslicepizza]

i never seen this coming. a parody from a well known sony fan suggesting the xbox one will win.

it's amazing how disruptive the xbox brand has been to playstation fans. it's like they can't even enjoy sony's systems unless they think and breathe xbox.

it's pretty safe to say sony hit all the right notes with the ps4. pricing, design (capabilities), marketing, messaging, and most importantly history.

[Gazondaily]

"Spencer's current direction with the brand is great...but realistically, the problem with Xbox was never the games....ever, it was always MS itself."

The problems weren't the games? What about Microsoft was the problem for gamers?

[Persistantthug]

Are you seriously asking that question, Mr Septic? Were you asleep for all of 2013?

[rainslacker]

It's not just gamers that distrust MS. I'm talking in a rather generalized way here, and MS doesn't exactly have the reputation of being a company that thinks about the customer, or even cares about them. They spent decades earning their current reputation, and while it's not all warranted, much of it is.

The problem, per say, is more that MS has a bad reputation as being all about itself, and it's hard to watch their PR stuff without having a big bucket of salt near by.

MS products themselves aren't all that bad for the most part. Their OS is fairly lacking in many areas, but it's made great strides to become more accessible and flexible. Their productivity software is pretty great, and I love working with some of it. Their office stuff though is bogged down in endless DRM which forces upgrades, or pushes businesses to keep spending money. Their whole cloud initiative is geared towards making all software a service, just so they can capitalize off these services. Adobe actually started this before MS, and it's worked well for them. Not that it's a bad way to go, and it does have advantages, but it's not something appropriate for all ends. Make no mistake though, Azure is meant to do away with the desktop PC for the masses.

For my comment above, and to bring it back to gamers, this whole mentality that MS is somehow a godly company that can just somehow win by throwing money at things doesn't circumvent the perception that people have of them.

Their current track, I wouldn't say they're doing anything overtly that is a problem for the gamers, and I even think they're doing some really good things. But that doesn't just erase them shifting to the casual at the end of last gen, nor does it mean people have just forgotten that they tried to pull the most anti-consumer move on the game industry to date just over 2 years ago. The games, and the Xbox console itself weren't anti-consumer...it was MS policies..hence, MS is the problem...not the console.

People don't forget these things, and while not everyone may hold to it, it is a huge mountain they have to overcome. Even MS knows this and some years ago they even stated they were going to try and become a more trusted company.

Xbox gamers are the only ones I see praise MS endlessly like they can do no wrong. So most of the stuff we see around here, or other forums, stays in here, or these forums. Go to any PC site, and you will see a much different attitude towards anything MS does. There really isn't much to say about MS games that is negative, because they do produce some good games, but their corporate policies hinder their ability to be seen as a positive influence.

[Gazondaily]

@rainslacker

You haven't really given me any specific examples though. I don't see the big problem with MS from what you're saying. It's just a critical assessment of some of the areas they dabble in. I don't see how MS themselves are the massive problem?

You mean the missteps they made? Fair enough but they're rectifying them and have made great strides haven't they? They've benefitted the industry immensely by bringing proper competition to the table.

"Xbox gamers are the only ones I see praise MS endlessly like they can do no wrong."

Well that's just a small section isn't it? Let's be honest, at least around these parts, Sony fans have an almost religious affiliation with the brand. In fact, their behaviour is so destructive that many accuse Sony fanboys on hating every platform but their own. Hence the meme that 'they just hate on your console of choice '.

Back to the question at hand, many were ripping MS apart and are now moving goalposts dramatically or REALLY reaching to find something to complain about (not directed at you). First it was their lack of first party games, now you're saying it isn't the games that's the problem. Well that's quite a massive statement when all Ive read from many people critical of MS and Xbox, that that is precisely the problem?

I don't see a massive disparity between the way Sony and MS conduct their affairs in terms of the idea of upholding gaming 'justice'- both are VERY CLEARLY driven my making profits. Well this gen Sony definitely made all the right moves and MS the opposite but we've seen before how Sony have blundered badly too. Actions speak louder than words and MS are certainly not paralysed.

For me, I make the assessment on games. The politics of it all is background noise. So when 'it isn't about games' then naturally I'm going to ask, what's more important than that? Right now, MS are doing quite well by gamers imo. That's the most important thing no?

[rainslacker]

You're looking for specific examples, and I'm talking more about the general perception that people have about MS. I wasn't trying to make this into a Sony does it too argument, and I will concede that most businesses can do things that don't always favor the consumer.

But what do people actually see these companies as? Do people see Sony has a hostile, consumer unfriendly company, or do they see Sony has a provider of quality hardware and games? Do people who aren't Xbox fans consider MS a quality hardware manufactuer who has the consumers best interest in mind? There's a fine line between what is and what isn't, and unlike MS, Sony has not had that many instances where they were blatantly anti-consumer, or anti-competitive. Sure they exist, and I'd rather this discussion not devolve into a point, counter point of the lesser of two evils. I'm simply talking about general perception.

The big difference, and the major point I'm trying to make, is that MS problem is MS itself. Their actions over the past 20 odd years have rubbed people the wrong way, and that carries over for a long time.

You are smart enough to know that people can hold onto grudges, whether they hold a place in reality or not. The general mentality of what MS has done, and the perception that people have of them, is in no way represented the general consumer in the gaming forums. Go look on PC gaming forums or general PC forums and you will see a much different view of MS than you will see here on N4G.

It's fine to look at the Xbox brand, and MS part in it, without considering the politics. It's even reasonable when your looking at it for your own reasons on if you want the system or not. In fact I would encourage it. But to assert that everyone is wrong in their perceptions when MS own faults throughout the years are well documented, and that it should be ignored because it has no application to the XBox brand is just ignoring facts. If anything, their actions 2 years ago only cemented in my mind, and I'd imagine many others, exactly what kind of company MS is, and at the time, it was the problem with the Xbox.

In many ways, I believe it's still holding them back, which is why I believe that their biggest focus now is to keep the Xbox brand relevant and remove the stigma of MS corporate stench from it. So again, MS itself was the problem, not the hardware, or the software.

But the reality of all this is, is that you are trying to assert your reasons from a personal standpoint, while I'm talking about things from a more general consumer view. There is a lot of hostility towards MS in general, sometimes people don't even understand why they don't like MS. It's just so ingrained that we should hate the big guys that it persists, and will always persist.

[rainslacker]

Cont'd

The reasons that these perceptions have become part of our culture are because of MS own actions, and some of it is exaggerated by the media's need to bring down the giant. If you want me to document stuff, then I'm afraid there isn't enough characters available, and I invite you to peruse Google...but since I know you're smart, you know exactly what MS past holds, and why these perceptions came about.

Overall, right now, I don't see a major difference in the way that MS and Sony conduct business with their respective console brands when it comes to producing games and manufacturing consoles. In fact, I see MS acting more like Sony than they ever have, and I'm liking their new focus. I just don't believe that their new focus is going to cause them to pull ahead this gen, or change the tide of consumer trends. That's why I believe this new focus is more long term for MS, and it's expecting too much to believe that MS can win without some major mishap by Sony. Let's face it, one of the reasons people were so excited for Sony at the start of this gen was their huge focus on AAA big titles until the very end of last gen...whereas MS was criticized quite often for their shift in focus to the casual.

[gangsta_red]

"...and MS doesn't exactly have the reputation of being a company that thinks about the customer, or even cares about them."

And why is that? Exactly what have they done that no other company have themselves done to customers? I think it just has become a norm to hate on anything MS has done or doing and it's gotten to a point where people actually forgot but are still harboring this resentment from the many on the internet.

Their may have been some legitimate reasons from the PC crowd years ago but from the gaming crowd I don't see any. Now one could say that a lot of complaints stem from people who prefer and defend Sony so fiercely like you Rainslacker. That every misstep is turned into a huge ordeal and brought up whenever MS is discussed no matter how far in the past an incident may have occurred.

".but realistically, the problem with Xbox was never the games....ever, it was always MS itself."

To me this is such a non-issue, especially if you're a gamer. Because despite what your personal opinions of MS as company are they have more than provided their users of Xbox with the games they all enjoyed.

[rainslacker]

@gangsta

Again, it's about perception, not reality. Is MS completely evil, twirling their mustaches while they come up with ways to screw people over? No. They're a corporation trying to increase profits. It's what companies do. I'm not trying to get into an argument over whether or not other companies do it to, I'm simply pointing out that MS is not trusted by people. What they are today, what they were yesterday, what reasons are based on fact, and what are based on feels are rather irrelevant to what people actually feel.

You and Septic seem to want to imply that MS is some kind of victim of some sort of smear campaign and are completely innocent, or they are hated on unjustly. You're both smart, and I know at least Septic knows some of the things they've done in the past. Heck every gamer here knows what they did 2 years ago, and to think the entire company, including the Xbox division is somehow found Jesus and are somehow born again and have no interest in screwing over the consumer for their own gains are just blindly ignoring what MS is, and has been for a very long time.

However, I will address whether it's an issue for the gamer. Well...apparently it isn't an issue for those that have an Xbox, or seriously consider it. But for a great number of gamers it actually is. The PC crowd most definitely is not in love with MS. They get excited from time to time...like with DX12, but there was a lot more excitement over SteamOS than there has been from MS with the exception of DX12.

Has MS been providing their gamers with the games they enjoy? Lately, I'd say yes, they've been doing very well. But what about the last couple years of the 360? What was the biggest complaint about the brand? Wasn't it their focus on Kinect? Do these things just disappear overnight or over the course of 6-12 months? I'd say no, and I'd say that the consumer at large has a long memory. When you annoy or upset your customers, they're much less likely to give you another chance than if you just provide them with good products and service to begin with. Customer satisfaction 101.

This is my point...not which company is better, less greedy, nor what is fact and what is unjustly deserved opinion. Perception is key to success.

[Godmars290]

"Perception is key to success."

Or ironically failure. Since people who work in MS seem to be so focused on the fact that whatever is offered will only succeed, its lead to instances like the DRM reveal. With having plenty of time to react to ever growing negative reaction to rumors, then making conflicting statements meant to present the Xbox brand as the only option. Until pre-orders begin fall off or outright getting canceled.

I mean, the term "Xbot" came from fans of the console quoting PR statements word for word.

[dcbronco]

Septic no one is going to give you any specific reasons because there aren't any. The problem is that perception is reality and unfortunately we live in a world where that perception is usually 95% baseless. You can look at just about anything. I was watching the John Oliver interview with Edward Snowden earlier and already most of the people interviewed on the street had no idea who he was. That is ridiculous.

The I don't trust Microsoft thing is all the rage with the "cool" kids now based on too many sheep. The nazis couldn't have done a better propaganda job. If you read any given thread on this site you will see someone early in the thread make a comment that hits a note for sheep and then see twenty others repeat it. Like the"I don't trust" nonsense.

If you ask why they might parrot drm. Didn't Sony have a rootkit issue? Did Sony come forth immediately on data stolen. But do I believe Sony is a bad company? No. But you had clowns going on and on about always on hurting the troops while I'll bet the same people couldn't tell you why the Iraqi war was illegal and that actually killed some of the troops and actually attributed to a average of 20 former soldiers a day commiting suicide.

Has Microsoft done anything to gamers that was bad, yes. One thing. They made a huge mistake with RRoD. They tried to hide it as they tried to fix it. And I don't believe they ever truly came clean on the failure rate. Was dropping the original Xbox wrong, no. They made mistakes in trusting NVIDIA and Intel but they were not the problem. They learned their lesson and moved on. They lost five billion dollars. Did people want them to lose another three carrying Intel and NVIDIA just because? That is the thinking of a child. I had an original and moved on because I understand adult decisions.

Was Kinect to spy on you. That's just plain stupid. Only fanboys and tinfoil people buy into that one. And always on was a joke complaint. It will offer so much and detractors are mostly idiots. They are who Steve Jobs was talking about. I don't think it should be mandatory. Just let the offline people have a lesser experience.

I think it was Winston Churchill who said the best argument against letting the average citizen vote was spending five minutes talking to the average citizen. The same applies to gaming policy.

[Godmars290]

"Septic no one is going to give you any specific reasons because there aren't any."

Paying for online/XBL Gold.

RROD

Buying timed exclusivity and DLC.

Kinect from the Milo demo to the Star Wars presentation.

Anything having to do with the original online plans for the XB0 and MS's reaction to it until the reversal.

And lastly, the willful blindness of the Xbox fan camp and mistakes MS have made. That they will defend choices MS makes even when they negatively effect them. Like the long standing argument of the 360 going with DVD instead of HD-DVD, insisting that the tech wasn't needed while having to compensate for storage shortcomings.

The pointless and short lived movie player add-on. The updates which bricked old and new consoles. Having to buy special larger HDDs costing well over what could be bought off the shelf. Fanboys defended each of these moves while sometimes thanking MS for the "choice" being offered.

With such kind of BS going on and being praised its no wonder you can't find or realize *one* wrong or evil thing that MS has done.

[rainslacker]

@dc

I'm going to clarify one last time, since people keep asking for examples. I stated those examples can be found on Google, as MS history is well documented, yet Septic, Gangsta, and now you act like people don't dislike, distrust, or outright hate MS. I know all three of you to be smarter than that, so I wonder why all three of you completely disregard my actual argument about perception.

What I'm talking about is consumer buying trends, and why they may exist. It's as pure as that. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not trying to insist, or imply that MS is one thing or the other, nor am I trying to compare them to another company.

I've stated some of the perceptions may be baseless, or at least exagerrated because of people's predisposition to hate on the big guy. I won't deny that some people are irrational, or not completely informed. I am in no way saying that these people are right in their perceptions, or that it's wrong of them to feel the way they do. I'm simply trying to open up discussion on why the X1 may struggle when compared to the PS4...although it is doing pretty well when taken as it's own thing.

The absolute number one reason I don't want to list examples is because what happens 100% of the time is people come in and say how those reasons are irrational, or go on to list reasons why the other companies do it as well. The discussion devolves into a point, counter-point of trolling and vitriol that goes back and forth until bubbles are expended. Heck you even do this, doing the whole, "Well look what Sony has done".

My whole comment isn't about what is fact, or what is misunderstood, or what is false. It's about the perception that the general consumer has about MS. I can't really believe that the three of you all believe that people don't think this way, even if it's just a very long running feeling or joke...or maybe you're ignoring the fact that I stated twice that I'm speaking generally. I know there are fan boys who will defend to their death their console of choice, but all you've all done is completely ignore the point I'm trying to make to try and paint me as wrong. You don't have to convince me on what MS is or isn't, I can research and find that out for myself. Heck, I'm old enough to have witnessed most of MS crap troughout the years, and I know at least Septic has too.

Even MS knows what people think about the MS name.

Go look at your Xbox one console box or any accessory and find the MS logo on said box. Go ahead I'll wait. Why would they do this? To disassociate the negative image that the MS brand has in people's minds from the Xbox brand. I can't think of any other big company that doesn't have their name plastered on their products due to brand recognition....can you?

While not a MS thing, Phil Spencer has stated himself that he wants to change the Xbox's dude-bro image. Spencer understands that image plays a key role in marketing a brand.

[rainslacker]

Cont'd

And finally, MS own actions which show they know what people think about them

http://www.fastcompany.com/...

There's an article out there responding to this one that states, "Wanting to be cool, and being cool, are two very different things". I won't link the article because I found it to be rather negative towards MS, and goes against my intentions here, but I believe that one line is where MS stumbles. They want people to see them as the cool, hip, innovative company, but most people don't see them as that. In some ways they are very innovative, in other ways they are stalwart in their approach.

Anyhow, here is a good article which paints my point a bit more eloquently.

http://www.cnet.com/news/do...

MS success is based on it's stranglehold in other areas of the market, but those markets are also being threatened due to user habits in how they use technology. That's why One Platform is coming about. It consolidates their products into one thing, so people are less likely to disassociate MS with their computing usage habits. That kind of thing would be devastating for MS. In this case, it's actually advantageous for consumers though..but it's well known, even in these parts, that that was the whole reason the Xbox brand came about in the first place...to have their name in a place that was becoming more mainstream, and MS knew that eventually consoles would become their own computers, and in fact had some part to play in that happening.

Anyhow, the "I don't trust MS" is not some new mantra by the "cool" kids today. It was the same mantra that was the rage by the uncool kids when I was one. The hipsters are generally just a generation behind. Nowadays, MS is less hated than they were 10-15 years ago to be honest.

When it comes to the consumer though, I believe it was Agent K who said, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." This is basically the jist of my argument. A person can make informed decisions if they so choose, and in that case, the X1 may be a perfectly acceptable device for them to choose. But when you throw in social pressure, and general feelings about something, they can often change their point of view and not work to become informed. Because of MS past actions, and the general feelings which persist and hang over them, MS itself has become the problem that affects the X1 more than the games.

[Why o why]

Huh....ill give a specific reason, in fact, a couple

They're cash rich yet they totally fell off and stopped supporting their console with games as they believed their job was done. That complacency and just enough attitude pissed off many gamers outside of those asking for 'specifics'. You're obviously not the guys ms lost. Relying on 3rd party to feed your punters is a crap move in the eyes of many gamers outside of this section. Their output totally changed despite being the richest in the game. Ms put their rear ends on show to the casuals with the project natal...at that point, they overlooked thier core. They were influenced more by nintys success and tried to muscle in. Yes, everybody wanted a piece of that pie but cash rich companies should be able to do both right.....lol

Going back a little further there was something called rrod that was swept under the carpet by many n4g apologists. Eventually ms pulled a trump, avoiding a class action lawsuit by offering replacements... that was savvy play but the damage, for many, had been done.... they lied and said it the failure rate was within the norm....... question.... would that not lead some to believe ms are dodgy and fuel distrust. Tell me about the ps2 failures as a retort and Ill say maybe, just maybe that had a knock on affect when the ps3 was released. Truth is rrod was one of the biggest tech failures in modern history and it wasnt even the only hardware issue releated to the 360. Ms just weren't a hardware company. That was a problem with them like many accuse sony as being crap with os's.

Back to more recent years and their whole deal with it crap and the quietness that came with it definitely pissed people off. Their vision wasn't everyones cup of tea. What happened after that is well documented but what further pissed some people off was the fact that the reversal was blamed for some of the good features being removed... it was almost like a spoilt child throwing a tantrum. We cant have this so you cant have that. Up til now, nobody has given a reason why some of the better features were removed.

Depite what ive said, I think ms has turned the corner. I dont care if they were forced to, just that they had the ability to right their wrongs. I like phill more than most vps and he seems like the best guy to have at the helm. Lets see if their new movement lasts or a whole gen. Good luck my fellow gamers

[freshslicepizza]

@Godmars290
"Like the long standing argument of the 360 going with DVD instead of HD-DVD, insisting that the tech wasn't needed while having to compensate for storage shortcomings."

at the time it was exactly the right thing to do. bluray and hd dvd were in its infancy and the pricing to include a hd dvd drive at the time would have outpriced themselves. adding bluray to the ps3 forced sony to lose billions. sony being a major movie contributor had a vested interest in bluray winning the format. microsoft could afford to sit on the sidelines while making it harder for sony to win the format.

after looking back tell me exactly how by not having hd dvd built in hurt the xbox 360? very few games compared to the large library needed multiple disks.

you look at sony and how the value of the company is a former shell of itself from the 90's compared to the wealth of microsoft and tell me again which company as a whole has adapted with the time better?

sony as a game supplier and maker easily beats microsoft and their history allowed them to weather the storm with the ps3 and its high price tag. imagine how poorly the xbox 360 would have done if they had priced it at $600. it would have been the next 3do.

yet here we are with sony trimming the company down and selling assets just to stay afloat. the way the company was structured was no longer feasible and you had engineers basically running the company to the ground. microsoft also had poor leadership under ballmer but they still managed to keep the company profitable as a whole. as for the gaming sector they finally have people in charge that seem to get it and the head ceo is one smart cookie. there is a positive attitude at microsoft not seen for years and spencer is a reflection of that new direction.

this attitude for whatever reason does not resonate with many here on the forums. these so called critics who suggest microsoft do this and that are showing signs they never cared in the first place what happens with the brand. in fact i imagine many of them would just see it gone entirely, much like the topic creator here. be very careful what you wish for. the ps3 was priced at $600 and luckily the xbox 360 put it in its place rather quickly. imagine what sony would do with no viable competitor?

[Spotie]

Wow.

I don't even know where to begin with you guys, Septic. I mean, did you seriously ask what problems gamers could have with Microsoft? Is gangsta's memory so bad that he forgot a few short years ago?

How the hell can you guys praise Phil Spencer on one hand for turning the brand around and undoing all the damage you claim was done only by Don Matrick, and yet simultaneously act as if Microsoft hasn't EVER done anything worthy of, at the least, distrust? Furthermore, why can you all not even contemplate the question without trying to find some way to accuse Sony of doing the same?

If there's any reason johndoe is right- even though this is sarcasm at its finest- it's that the diehards like yourselves will keep moving goalposts and changing definitions until, in the end, Microsoft HAS won this generation.

If you can't use straight-up sales, it'll be market share gained from last gen. Or better multiplats. Or better selling exclusives. Or more games during the holidays.

Eventually, it'll be something insane, like Microsoft sold more XB1s than Sony sold rocking chairs. ANYTHING, so long as it gives MS the win. To that end, any and everything Microsoft does is glossed over or "forgotten," which makes gangsta's comment incredibly ironic. I mean, how can you ask as if these reasons don't exist, yet in the same breath act as if you remember, but the people trying to reference them for their "hatred" don't?

Your stories are all over the place. And the worst part is that you try to portray yourselves as some sort of neutral, despite how painfully obvious your bias is. And then you have the nerve to try and accost someone who doesn't play that game.

If you guys are gamers at all, then it's not video games you play. You may pick up a controller every now and then, but it sure as hell seems like you'd rather flip=flop on whether sales, exclusives, marketing, third party deals, various markets, and other such things matter.

Games, though? Don't seem to be very high up your lists...

[DigitalRaptor]

Holyyyy crap.....

Septic, Gangsta_red. Dcbronco..... Did I just read what I thought I read? Some people say I'm willing to ignore certain things about Sony and PlayStation to make a point, but I'll be damned, this is something else. This is on another scale.

You're willing to forgo things you ACTUALLY know about. Things that happened extremely recently, and things that are WELL documented, just to make it seem like everything is rosy because Phil Spencer did, and said a few things that their Xbox PR department told him to do to right the ship that was sinking by their own making.

I mean this stuff has followed MS around for years outside of the gaming space, and for good reason. Now loyalist gamers who love the Xbox brand are looking for reasons to find to cover up all of this action and behaviour. Both Rainslacker and Godmars provide things of proof. Things you can't argue with. Things that happened. Things you asked for and proven. And you'll still go the ends of the planet to disagree with it to defend a company that's bread and butter action plans involve the word "stranglehold" and has done for many many years. Unbelievable.
------

@ Spotie

"Your stories are all over the place. And the worst part is that you try to portray yourselves as some sort of neutral, despite how painfully obvious your bias is. And then you have the nerve to try and accost someone who doesn't play that game."

Gangsta_red is absolutely one of these undercover fanboys and stealth trolls that puts on a neutral facade by offering misdirection whenever MS or Xbox comes under fire in any way that is detrimental. But as has happened time and time again, he continues to enter Sony/PS articles defending Xbox trolls, or having a problem with what Sony fans are saying in ways that are of detriment to Xbox or MS. Whilst in Xbox articles, he does the same thing. There is no balance, which is why it's funny he pretends otherwise.

He has issues with people being on Quantum Break articles being critical, but comes on to nothing short of positive Naughty Dog articles with the intention of high-fiving an Xbox troll and then downplaying TLOU, despite being ripped to shreds by people who know what they are talking about (comes from having played the game).

He will say that he owns a PS4 (doesn't prove it, mind) but then tells us all how he'll play Street Fighter V and No Man's Sky on his PC, despite playing all the Xbox One games that are ALSO on PC, on his Xbox One. Funny that... not fishy, at all.

He will go into PS4 lineup discussions absolutely downplaying Japanese RPGs as more or less irrelevant, just so he can try and "win" an argument about his preferred lineup of games on the Xbox One, but later come into an article discussing Sony's commitment to Japanese games and RPGs and praise it in high fashion. I fail to see the consistency. But of course, it's a clever facade. As smart as he thinks he is by trying to misdirect and expose others' hypocrisy and bias he simply continues to ignore his own. It's no longer possible to hide the bias, yet he acts like it's still hidden or fictional.

[maniacmayhem]

@Hicken

"I mean, did you seriously ask what problems gamers could have with Microsoft?"

And here's the problem and exactly what Septic, Red, DCbronco and others were saying. All of you have a personal bias with the MS but it has nothing to do with it's games or anything relevant to what they are doing NOW.

It's the same excuse with the lot of you:

"They did this ___ years ago"

You guys, who are not surprisingly Sony die hards are trying to prove how awful MS are but have no real reasons to associate their supposed shady business tactics to the games they are putting out.

"and yet simultaneously act as if Microsoft hasn't EVER done anything worthy of, at the least, distrust?"

And what does that have to do with GAMES Hicken? What does that have to do with the Xbos One? I guess Sony, Nintendo (EA, Activision, Google, Apple, IBM) are shining beacons of heavenly light guiding all gamers to lands filled with chocolate and taffy. All companies have had their run ins of shadiness in the eyes of some, MS just seems to be the company a lot of you hold on to when pretending to fight some evil empire.

Again, your own pretend prejudices has nothing to do with games for the Xbox One. Or gamers who enjoy that system.

"Furthermore, why can you all not even contemplate the question without trying to find some way to accuse Sony of doing the same?"

Maybe because Sony HAS done the same in one way or another and maybe it's you all that are so intent on defending Sony that you can't even see it. But yet you and others are super quick to point out every little detail you find wrong with MS.

The problem I see with almost all Sony fanboys is they want MS to be JUST LIKE SONY and when MS does business, make deals or put out games or advertise not like your beloved company you all get upset and start complaining and comparing what they do with what Sony does.

****
"will keep moving goalposts and changing definitions until, in the end, Microsoft HAS won this generation."

Are you serious? You really want to talk about moving goals posts and sales talk? I remember all last gen it was:

- Play games not sales
- We will never pay to play online
- Indie games don't count when Xbox fans were trying to add XBL games to their exclusive list

It's amazing how you forget all that you were championing and arguing about when your PS3 was in the same situation but now praise Sony for doing the exact same thing. Goal posts are moved so much their wheels with a hemi engine.

"If you guys are gamers at all, then it's not video games you play."

My gawd, the irony of this statement is just so incredible it hurts. Hicken, you of all people should never attempt to call anyone else of being bias or questioning their gamer credentials. Especially when you have flipped flopped more than anyone here, accused MS of forcing Sony to make their players pay for online, slammed CoD but now thinks it's an acceptable game only because Sony is backing it, slammed Titanfall for not delivering up to your expectations but yells at everyone else for expressing the exact same sentiment for The Order and on and on.

"Games, though? Don't seem to be very high up your lists..."

In all honesty I see Spetic, Red, DCBronco and Moldy actually discussing all types of games for each platform and being excited more than I see you, rainslacker and especially Digital. I would classify them as gamers more than I would you.

[Gazondaily]

Agreed manic. Full on haters here talking about Xbox as if they have a legit opinion on Xbox games? Get out of here.

Rainslacker and Why can at least conduct a proper discussion.

For Xbox fans, the games aren't a problem. Thats the thing that matters most so let the haters pretend MS are the issue. Their opinion as gamers for me is worth ziltch.

[rainslacker]

@maniac

Here's my problem with the way this particular thread has played out.

While I will say that people will see me as one of the Sony die-hard, and they'd be right, I still made my original comment without praising Sony, without bashing the Xbox console or it's games, and without actually making a comment on why MS may suck.

I made what I feel is a very valid point about why MS may be "struggling" when compared to the PS4...and to be fair, their sales only pale in comparison to the PS4, but it's doing well otherwise. I never even really asserted that was the actual or only problem, and I will say now, that it wouldn't be because the market is much more complex.

However, when trying to have valid discussion, I get responses that are all trying to steer the discussion towards what exactly has MS done over the years. While I find this particular stuff worthy of discussion on whether it was really that bad or not, this was not the place for that particular discussion.

The only reason I can see them wanting this is because they want to discredit my actual point by saying how I'm wrong because of "-insert reason here-", or go on to paint other companies as just as bad. Whether I, or others, feel these things are bad or not are irrelevant to how the consumer at large may actually perceive MS bad because of those things.

But the actual topic of consumer perception went by the wayside outside of Septic's reply, which seemed to imply that there wasn't a underlying feeling of distrust among consumers about MS.

I don't really think that digital, or spotie, or others on the Sony front responded to my actual point except in a couple places where they tried to shift focus towards why those they were responding to were wrong because they were Xbox die-hards, which to me is equally as bad.

Overall, I think the idea of being critical is now considered trolling or hateful, when to me it actually makes things easier to understand why they are the way they are.

I really don't know what more can be done around these parts. Trying to have a logical discussion just can't seem to happen because people get way to defensive. It's not constrained to one side, and what could be a informative debate full of facts, rhetoric, and possible philosophical moments is wasted on trying to discredit the commenter or the entire subject by ignoring possibilities which are definitely present.

All I'm asking is for discussion on whether or not the perception that many consumers have of MS hinder their ability to sell more consoles. Admitting that there are people that dislike, distrust, or hate MS, does not make you a bad Xbox fan...it makes it so you can start to change other's perceptions because you can address things in a logical manner which make sense.

I don't feel that anyone in this thread really changed anyone's perceptions, or even attempted to, because they didn't even try to address how those perceptions affect the company, so it gives no incentive for people to examine their own feelings to decide if those perceptions are based on reality. It was all about why people are wrong to have a negative perception of MS, and telling people they're wrong never seems to go over well.

I'm going to make one last analogy to illustrate my point.

Consider Google and Valve. Both companies are generally well respected in tech. Both these companies have done things which go against the consumer's interest, yet people still seem to really like them, and don't mind their place in technology.

Now consider this. Both these companies were built on the mantra of being the antithesis of what MS stood for.

[Why o why]

maniacmayhem

Sorry bro.. You're saying the goalpost have been moved. I'm sorry but that goes both ways. Now sales and gaps DONT matter to those who used to champion the 360s lead in 1 frikkin region ignoring the rest of the world. Ps3 was closing the gap on the 360 from a 1 year, year+ head start. PS gamers aren't now championing sales exclusively either, they're championing BOTH, games AND sales if you hadn't noticed. Yeah Yeah, we get jack sh*t from Sony financially but what was good for the goose is good for the gander and its human nature throw crap back at those who threw crap at them.

In terms of paying for online.....Fully sucked and sucked up by many ps fans. I personally felt for those who didn't subscribe to PS+ as there was now a paywall. I myself had ps+ membership from it started so nothing had changed so the crow I had to eat wasn't too. Funny thing is all of those fans from the 360 crowd that downplayed ps+ like paying for more games was somehow crap for varying reasons.. NOW look, those same downplayers are now in G4G vs PS+ articles fighting their corner....seems like a plus point now init.

Oh, did you forget some people labelling the ps4 'indiestation'. This is despite releasing more retail titles than the x1. Now some of those who used to rightfully laud indies, downplay sony's improved indie dedication and games. You were right though, some ps fans did downplay ms's indie push just like some of them downplayed achievements...yeah, I remember.....we be loving them sh*ts now though.

We're all hypocrites or can be bro. We can all shift goalposts but lets not wear blinkers all of the time aey and point the finger at 'them' all the time whilst ignoring our own side frailties .....please fellas, don't become what you pretend to loath

[Spotie]

@maniac: "what they are doing NOW."

Right. Because what they did last year and the year before are just SO long ago. No one could possibly have added that to the long line of negative things Microsoft has done in gaming and made up their minds on how they feel. Everyone has to forgive and forget, just like you guys, right?

It's hilarious that you're talking about "NOW" when you keep tryin to bring up comments from a year or more ago. Get out of here. Not worth any more of my time.

@rainslacker: It's not that these guys are wrong because they're Xbox die-hards. In that respect, they're no different from the die-hard fans of anything else.

The problem is the WAY they express that fandom. Categorical denial of anything they don't agree with- usually while accusing others of doing the same, straw man arguments out the wazoo, and goalposts moving like a hula dancer's hips. I don't have the patience- and usually I don't have the bubbles, either, thanks to them- to calmly explain out everything like you do. They also, a bit, remind me of some young guys I work with who just don't WANT to get it.

@Septic: Good job, guy. Your opinion is just SO much more valid than anyone else's. And we should all ESPECIALLY take note of what you say, since they can't seem to do any wrong in your eyes. That'll DEFINITELY give the rest of us a trustworthy source of information, right?

Also good job on generalizing that every Xbox fan is fine with the games they have. Oh, unless you had one HELLUVA poll to ask them all about the library. That must have been a bitch to orchestrate.

Oh, and you DO realize that MS actually IS the problem, don't you? In some cases, at the very least. For example, it wasn't the games that revealed the XB1 with nothing but talk of TV deals and sports. It wasn't the games that denied that RROD was even happening, that said "too bad" if you didn't have an internet connection, that turned paying to play online into a thing.

It's not the games that decide which games to develop, which franchises to annualize.

These are all- if you're being honest(what are the chances of that?) legitimate issues people do have with Xbox, and Microsoft is the reasons for those issues.

Microsoft has a long history of less than polite actions even before they got into gaming, and that didn't change one they joined that market. You make comments like "What about Microsoft was the problem," knowing full damn well what the problems are because they're discussed every day. But then you invalidate all that because people who have problems with Microsoft aren't Xbox fans, and therefore their opinions don't matter to you.

The equivalent of plugging your ears and singing "la la la la" with your eyes closed.

You, and moldy, and maniac, and dc, and gangsta don't want to hear that there are problems, and so there are none.

I could be wrong, though. You each could be willing to admit that Microsoft has screwed up somewhere, that that mistake has caused people to distrust them. That not everybody is just out to hate Microsoft across the board and for no reason at all.

The question is: WILL you? Cuz the moment you do, you can't just turn around and pretend like everything's perfect and always has been. Well... you CAN, but...

[Godmars290]

"the winner is rarely decided until after the gen is over, or when it's approaching the end."

Really? "Winners" of a gen didn't become a thing until Sony came in with the PS1 and, all counts by sales, trounced the N64 and sent Sega, the static yet viable eternal #2 to Nintendo's #1, into a panic.

Likewise when MS entered consoles in the wake of Sega's exit though they took the #2 with the Big N demoted to #3, the PS2 dominated the market with a lead in the tens of millions which only grew. Yet by commentary the first Xbox made a strong showing while the Gamecube, which was only trailing by a couple of million, failed.

It was that odd "Xbox wins regardless of facts" favoritism which started the 360's reign, with its over a year lead and Sony mess up with the PS3 besides, yet by near the close of that console gen MS was losing ground, had lost Japan and most of Europe, and is probably the closest instance of your theory. And it doesn't favor MS.

Again, MS and their fans seems to carry an aura of entitlement, that the company should be The leader in the gaming industry that's hurt such a conclusion far more times than the camp is willing to admit, and the whole Spencer the savoir is just a new round of that. With the first Xbox MS came off as not having to make a broad appeal, while with the 360 and starting into the XB0 that they just had to provide a platform and support would be there while post DRM/always online they're praised for doing what the other guys have been doing from the beginning - which is provide 1st party support. And even then, though announcements have been made, its suddenly assumed that since Sony's now in the lead, a position they've been in before, will now sit on its butt and let MS overtake.

Have been dealing Xbox fanboys since the beginning, since around the cult mindset that began with the 360 that is, and aside from honest wins - those not being defending XBL Gold and RROD - its been a sad ride.

[rainslacker]

You make some interesting points.

"Really? "Winners" of a gen didn't become a thing until Sony came in with the PS1"

Not sure if you mean that the idea of a winner wasn't that big a deal until the 360, or that the the idea of a winner was never a thing before Sony entered the market.

If it's the former, I'd have to say I agree 100%. But I would also say the explosion of the internet around the same time could have just caused the play ground console wars to erupt into what has become a endless cycle of bickering. The later though, I can't agree with, because I remember having these discussions as far back as SMS/NES...but again they weren't as toxic, and the availability of concrete data was almost nill, so it was more often than not based on system preference anyhow. Looking at it though, due to that last point, it's possible that the idea of a winner not being important due to sales may not have been a thing.

Last gen was sort of an anomoly IMO. All three console makers had good sales, but defining a winner depends on how you want to define it. Did they win on pure volume(Nintendo), did they win on making market headway against strong competition(MS), or did they win by staying fairly steady, overtaking strong competition, and maintaining their mindshare in the market(Sony). It's easy to define a winner to suit your argument, and because of that, it makes the whole argument stupid to begin with. They all did well, none of them failed, and that's a great thing for the industry, and by extension the gamers.

I don't really want to get into a discussion about the cult mindset, although it is the actual underlying topic of this blog. All I can say is I don't really understand how it happened. Fan boys have always existed, but I can't say I've ever seen them in such abundance for any MS product.

I do give credit to Spencer, although I know he's not the lone steersman, and is more of a front man for the overall corporate machine. I do believe he has some influence, and that influence probably did have something to do with saying, "This is how we get the gamers back".

I do kind of agree that the overall acceptance of poor policies from publishers and manufacturers has led to a degradation of consumer respect from the industry though. The amount of crap they try to pull, and them acting like they're doing us a favor by doing it is rather disappointing. But gaming isn't the first industry to go from a grass roots thing, to a investment led corporate profit milking structure.

[Godmars290]

What the PS1 managed to do was open gaming to the general consumer market where once it was more thought of as a hobby for kids and teens. Before then the likes of Sega and Nintendo could simply exist with no real worries. Then MS, with their command of the PC market, came into gaming and for all intended purposes floundered. Had the edge in tech but otherwise failed to make a similar splash to Sony's first outing much less have the first Xbox stand equally against the PS2 unlike old Big N vs Sega.

Of course the growing internet played a part in what happened next, but where Sony was applying marketing lamely towards fake sites and ads to push their stuff, MS was hiring budding web and forum celebrities to point and laugh at anything the competition - largely Sony - did, they were also creating the "We Can do No Wrong" mentality which lead towards militant fanboyism.

As far as instant messaging being around during the Genesis and SNES: yes things would have certainly been different. Largely and if only because the existence of such tech would have changed the nature of everything around it.

[Gazondaily]

"Again, MS and their fans seems to carry an aura of entitlement, that the company should be The leader in the gaming industry"

"Have been dealing Xbox fanboys since the beginning, since around the cult mindset that began with the 360 that is"

Lmao wtf is this?! Entitlement and cult mindset and youre NOT describing the Sony fanbase?? You have one extremely skewed view of things mate.

The Sony fanbase (strictly talking fanboys here) is the only fanbase that stands atop a mountain and derides and ridicules every single platform out there. The Siny fanbase genuinely feels it is THE best platform UNQUESTIONABLY.

PS vs Xbox- this is the bitter battleground because the 360 slapped the PS in the face early on

PS vs Nintendo- deride all Nintendo titles as the same old underpowered recycled games

PS vs PC- all of a sudden power doesn't matter because it costs a gazillion dollars.

Nah mate, you are WAY off. The Sony contingent (the fanboy element of them) have time and time again proven themselves to be the most toxic and downright idiotic, hypocritical and corporately loyal bunch of lemmngs out there.

We saw it with fake drm signing petitions, fake Amazon recues en masse, even one of our videos where we leaked the Xbox Ui and the Sony fanboys raced to spread their BS.

Ive even seen the majority of people agree en mass that Microsoft leaving the arena would be great andthe lack of competition would benefit the industry! In fact, I reckon you'd love their exit but not for any noble reason loosely wriggled into an argument with no foundation whatsoever.

Like the slogan says, they dont just love their console of choice. They love to hate yours.

[johndoe11211]

"The Sony contingent (the fanboy element of them) have time and time again proven themselves to be the most toxic and downright idiotic, hypocritical and corporately loyal bunch of lemmngs out there."

Septic, let's get something clear here. the moment you write something like that only shows that you fall into the same bloody bracket. NO ONE has any right to call any fanboy base (not fan base) worse than the other. The moment you do you become an even bigger hypocrite.

How many times have xbox fanboys argued on this site that the ps4 is no more powerful than the xbox one? how many of them are saying now that the xbox is more powerful because of the clouds? Almost every single xbox fanboy is saying now that sales don't matter even though if you pull up some of those same people's comments last gen you would see them bragging about sales.

How many of them on this site right now supported microsoft with their DRM BS and called us idiots for not accepting it? How many fanboys last gen made excuses and covered up for microsoft concerning the RROD even after it was discovered that the 360 had the highest fail rate in electronics history? How many of them supported microsoft to the last even though microsoft practically abandoned the 360 in the last 3 years of last gen but now is calling sony's lineup this year barren even though they have released about 10 sony exclusives so far this year?

How many of them kept hanging onto every word mrxmedia printed even after microsoft themselves were denying those utterly ridiculous claims? How many of them now are saying that only north american sales matter and are looking at the rest of the world like garbage? How many of them criticized driveclub's online issues and said that the full game should be given away on ps+ for free but then completely ignored the exact issues with HMCC that persisted for MONTHS.

Here's the thing, can I write a similar list of hypocritical statements for the ps fanboys? ABSOLUTELY, but that is not the point here. The point is that ALL (including PC and nintendo) fanboys are "idiotic, hypocritical and corporately loyal bunch of lemmngs", ALL. you CANNOT single out any.

The reason you cannot see that is due to you being utterly bias from the very beginning. From the day you first posted on n4g your first 15 posts were severely attacking and criticizing sony fanboys. You obviously came here from the get-go with an ax to grind. Why is that? I have no idea and it's completely irrelevant. Does that make you a bad person? Not at all, but it does show why you are viewing this with extreme bias.

Personally, I tend to disagree with most of your views when it comes to gaming but at the same time you are one of the few people here that can actually have logical (even though I tend to disagree) debates. Me not agreeing with you does not make me think you are a fanboy, however when you make completely irrational and ridiculous comments like this, it tends to make one wonder.

I am not against you for liking xbox more, it's your preference and I respect that, we can't all like the same things, but i do expect that someone in your position and with your ability to rationalize to be above making comments like that and having views like that. No one fanboy base is worse than any other and I would think you of all people would be above that.

Am I expecting too much of you? You tell me. At the end of the day you don't have to give two hoots about what anyone thinks of you but don't expect people to think you are rational and unbiased if you are showing otherwise. I'm out of bubbles now so I won't be able to respond to anything you write. This is not me attacking you, it is me showing you a grave error in your way of thinking on this topic. sol goode.

[Gazondaily]

@john

From drm, to misterxwhatever, i havr seen very few Xbox owners support that.

I'm sorry but the PlayStation contingent of fanboys is the absolute worst in my dealings with them. And some of my own close acquaintances exhibit such a stubborn nature and full on fanboy mentality.

Its just my experience with them. And its downright ignorant to ignore them when the likes of MightyNox get mass agrred and bubbled up for their sheer BS posts.

Most of my experience with them is on here though so that's probably more telling of the PlayStation community on here. But I've seen them infest my own video channel and I've dealt with them face to face (as can be seen in one of my videos).

Its my honest view. One of the reasons I joined n4g (my brother, a Sony fan introduced me to it) was because i was bemused by the sheer bullying and nonsense the Sony contingent were piling on. Thats why you'll see my first few comments retaliate against them.

I'm holding a discussion live with some die hard Sony fans from N4G (hopefully next week) so that will be interesting. But yes I view Sony fanboys as the lowest of all fanboys just because of the sheer arrogance and downright hater mentality. They suck. I'm sorry but that's my view on it.

[Godmars290]

@Septic:

Defending XBL Gold when it was only online support. Attacking people looking for help when reports of RROD started. Nearly anything to do with Kinect. Praising the "choice" the HD-DVD add-on offered while letting it flounder like the lame thing it was. The 11th hour defenders of the XB0's DRM policies because of the game sharing deal. Nevermind the details surrounding it.

When I say the Xbox fan camp isn't all there, acts against their own interest as consumers, I have examples. When you say say Sony fanboys are the worst, all you do is insist that Sony fanboys are the worst.

You don't see the problem?

@moldybread:

"after looking back tell me exactly how by not having hd dvd built in hurt the xbox 360? very few games compared to the large library needed multiple disks."

Likely hurt them in the EU and certainly Japan. Promotion the 360 as a media center then not only not having HD-DVD or BR but bad DVD drives?

Also, no real point in bringing up what games were effected since the changes implemented to expand DVD capacity then the installs, which then impacted HDDs, made buying larger ones mandatory, is somehow a moot point in the Xbox camp.

"you look at sony and how the value of the company is a former shell of itself from the 90's compared to the wealth of microsoft and tell me again which company as a whole has adapted with the time better?"

None of that has to do with video games, at least on MS's side. It was the outside general software patients which kept the Xbox brand afloat, just like PCs, TVs and cell phones threatened to sink Sony. For every hundred million the 360 managed to make in a quarter, there were billions it still had to make up for. Hell, while the PS3 may never make up for its losses, at least it could be said that the Playstation division once held up the rest of Sony. Which apparently hadn't been financially secure otherwise except during the Walkman years.

[H1t_Monster]

The only way micro would win this gen is if they gave away the console they're selling.What makes you think because 1 company is wealthy then another that smaller company can't compete,the wii says hello.You remember nintendo last gen the smallest company of all 3 and they wiped the floor with the 2 giants.Money doesn't sell products,good product sell it's self,if you make a product that people want and a superior 1 againts its competition then it doesn't matter who has the most funds.Remember it's the costumers that decide who wins and so far 25 mil to micros 14 mil indicates that sony wil win this gen,am I happy? no I rather see them neck to neck so we as consumer could benefit from all of the freebees and price cuts, but so far its been sony all the way and reason 4 no price cut on its hardware and if you think micro would win America wishful thinking,its been 22 months in counting and micro should have over taken America by now and it hasn't happen.Now unless micro gives those consoles away I don't see them winning this gen but they will be a very close secound.Thanks multi console owner.

[johndoe11211]

You must really be fun at parties.

[Major_Glitch]

@hit what the?! I'm assuming there's some semblance of a point in their somewhere.

OT: Fun read. I've been saying it for a while, but I'll say it again: barring some horribly strange and anomalous mistake on Sony's part, the PS4 WILL WIN THIS GEN. In fact, it's no longer a battle for first between Sony and MS. It's a battle for second place between MS and Nintendo. Better get your "secret cloud power sauce" ready MS. You're gonna need it going up against Nintendo.

[Persistantthug]

H1t_Monster,
Bro, take a deep breath.....actually, take several. Once you do that REread the story.

[iliimaster]

i like the xboxone for the faster smoother screen captures and video saves, you dont get interrupted by a blue screen like when you push share

[johndoe11211]

uuuhhhhhhh.........oooooooooka aaaaayyyyyyy..........sure buddy........

soooooo........how long have you had your ps4?

[iliimaster]

whats that mean? i got my ps4 11months ago gta v bundle, just picked up my xboxone 2 months ago.... you're response tells me you havn't tried it on the xboxone... it helps alot when you want to save a video file or screen capture in Vs online because on xbox a pop up happens and you can see the whole screen and call out, on ps4 the big blue menu pops up and it takes away from gameplay? am i the only one who knows this? lol

[BitbyDeath]

There is a setting in options that will let you change that so you won't be interrupted while gaming. FYI

[BillytheBarbarian]

I wasn't happy with the Xbox One. I am a little bit happier now that I can play Gears 3 on it. Now it's just missing the custom Sountracks feature. I need my own damn tunes. Then I might be happy with Xbox one. I still play 360 more than the Xbox One and PS4. Just nothing all that great is out yet.

[Software_Lover]

............ What.

1) They won't win. Even if they had the strongest console with the best software.

2) Who cares?

[johndoe11211]

How do you guys survive on a daily basis??? Seriously, what I would give to know what your life must be like.

[Software_Lover]

Rather busy? The Leprechauns took some of my gold so I'm building an army of 4 leaf covered garden gnomes to get it back.

[InTheLab]

So you read it after posting this?

[KwietStorm_BLM]

"There is nothing that sony can do to combat this magic. It is widely known that sony only has about $50,000 in their bank account and that the only reason they are still in business is due to it being mandatory that all employees sell knockoff rolex watches on the side of the street on weekends."

hahah

[memots]

i have heard of this pot of gold too.
Some were even saying last gen that Ms would buy Sony and Sega.

Comedy gold !

[Software_Lover]

............. Show me someone that said Microsoft would buy Sony and I will show you the picture perfect definition of a troll.

[memots]

Come on Software_lover you have been around long enough to know that this happened here.

:)

[DefenderOfDoom2]

Well , here are the results . The winner of Playstation vs Xbox is ._.

All of the people who play video games .

Entertaining blog.

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

"Why Microsoft will win this gen" - You're thinking way too small there.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[DragonKnight]

I loved that video. Man that takes me back.

[user9950279]

........ wow.

[DarXyde]

You realize there was an NDA in effect regarding the leprechauns, right? We were going to inform MisterXMedia discreetly to get our free wristbands. Way to go.

[johndoe11211]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. My bad, I was just so excited to tell everyone about my discovery.

[DarXyde]

Heh.

I'm reading the comments now and I have to say that I am honestly floored how many people simply didn't read the blog. It wasn't even long. It didn't over-elaborate.

Yikes, guys.

[outsider1624]

"Why Microsoft will win this gen."

LOL!!!!!

[NewAgeisHere]

Thank you for this comedy piece. Very entertaining.

[LightofDarkness]

Ok, so trolling is OK so long as it's submitted in blog form?

I recall reading a blog only weeks ago in which moderators specifically stated that "sarcasm" and "comedy" are OK so long as they're not blatant trolling, but this is rather blatant.

I hate to be a "kill-joy", but if this was the other way around it'd have been reported to death and promptly removed before there were even 10 comments.

I harbour no allegiances to either of these companies, but this is some serious bait right here. It's written with the intention of being a comedy article, but it's comedy for a very specific kind of "fan", that only they and their ilk would find amusing. It is also clearly here to raise the ire of a certain other group of fans. It's childish. It is also very symbolic of the endemic Sony bias that seems to have crept into this site at the administrative level at this stage.

Are we just abandoning all hope of this site being anything more than a Sony fan echo chamber?

[johndoe11211]

Careful, you'll burst an eye vessel.

[LightofDarkness]

Ah, an unapologetic, arrogant troll to the bitter end. "Eye-vessels" aren't a real thing (unless you're evoking images of some form of horrifying containing vessel for seeing parts), but then your non-existent comedic skills haven't stopped you from writing terrible blogs, so go nuts.

[BillytheBarbarian]

Yep. If this was anti Sony it would have been failed.

[DarXyde]

But....it kind of is anti Sony.

What makes this funny is Sony is in the lead and he offered an outlandish reason for a comeback. It also pokes fun at the whole "secret sauce" thing Microsoft seems to have going for the Xbox One. Let's not be bitter and take it in stride. There were plenty of articles like this early last generation that were the opposite and were pretty funny.

To be fair, last generation, all we heard were comments like, "AWWWWW YEAAAAH, THE POWER OF TEH CELL PROCESSOR. OH GAWD, I CAN FEEL ITS POWWWWAAAAAH!!!"

Now, people are doing the same with "TEH CLOWDZzzz".

Neither are very mature, but the reactions from both sides are pretty funny, if not hypocritical. It's pretty obvious that the Xbox gamers are upset in here and that's because you're taking a joke too seriously. Then again, I suppose the PlayStation gamers are having a hearty laugh at this because it's making fun of Microsoft. Either way, it is a joke. Purely so. Go write an opposing piece and make it funny. I promise you'll get a chuckle out of me if your writing is on point.

Both sides like to cry foul and say, "if the shoe were on the other foot..."

In truth, if it were, would you still have an issue with it or would it actually be funny? You can ask yourselves that now, but I wonder how honest with yourselves you'd be.

[StrayaKNT]

"Why Microsoft will win this gen"

I agree.

[Fro_xoxo]

The second I saw the name of the "author". I didn't even bother reading. I knew it was bait.

It's amazing that some people take this imaginary console war thing so seriously, you'd take time out to sit and write gibberish.

I hope you got a pat on the back from your fellow fanboys lol.

[StrayaKNT]

Well said

[Lukejrl]

I found the discussion of this article mostly intelligent. Kudos fellow N4Gers

[Letsplayhalo]

why do you care?

[the-dragons-bane]

lol this was perfect! well done