Tired of this Schmidt Episode VIII: The Last of Politics? (Part 2)

[ CONTINUED FROM PART 1: http://n4g.com/user/blogpos... ]

Creation/Creators:

Now I don’t think it requires much effort to see how logically faulty such wishes can become. With such a nebulous definition of “politics” to consider, this inevitably severs a lot of inspiration developers take from the real world during the creative process that may not have been considered yet; and developers aren’t really automatons that can simply divorce themselves from taking in such inspirations either, as if there’s an on/off switch. But if the argument then morphs into keeping just a certain sliver of politics you’re bothered with (x) out of ‘your games,’ then it follows with asking this: who’s to say someone else won’t then demand another sliver you deem inoffensive (y) ALSO be kept out and on and on this goes ad infinitum ‘til the only thing left is a large vat of viewpoint-vanilla? To me: that reeks of a more damaging stagnation to this artistic medium than all the COD clones you can muster.

There’s also the blatant hypocrisy that can’t be ignored. When people previously dared to air socio-political criticisms about games the argument often devolved down to telling those people to just not buy the games and/or make their own. Now—conveniently enough!—when some developers actually have more financial flexibility and creative opportunity to develop games and/or game storylines more in line with their viewpoints, kneejerk reactions about how SJW politics from Druckmann and others are sneaking into your games seems to be a common complaint that appears to receive no reprimand. From once taking a hardline stance for creative freedom when another slaughter-simulator was announced (19), which I believe was a justifiable response, to screeching about “politically correct, regressive” political persuasions from Blizzard just because they decided to announce Tracer was a lesbian (20)? Give me a break. That kind of attitude shows you’re interested in “creative freedom” with an asterisk applied.

I don’t want to insinuate most gaming enthusiasts are exhibiting this double standard, but my experience suggests it’s not some insignificant portion either. Regardless of numbers, the main point being creation ought to remain an open lane for any such political discussions; in fact, I figure an artist’s genuine challenges to your predisposed beliefs, especially on such crucial topics, ought to be beckoned rather than dismissed.

I guess part of what makes me post such a longwinded refutation to this no-politics-please wish comes back to the enjoyment of challenge, not just of mechanical difficulty but intellectual ferocity as well. The notion of games positing beliefs counter to my own, as done by books, movies, and songs since time immemorial is part of what fascinates me about this medium; which also extends to the in-depth criticisms OF said games that may also make me pause and reconsider x or y aspect of a game. Just as I have considered and deeply disagree with the notion of “safe spaces” on college campuses so too would I hate to see a similar outlook sinking into this expressive medium.

Another inspiration for this blog is in several of the most politically-charged games, identity politics or otherwise, of recent years affecting me in a number of ways. One such example would be Gone Home.

While I reviewed Gone Home mostly on its design and storytelling (21), I must admit it also put me in an uncomfortable position that could bear out in my personal life which hadn’t dawned on me before. You see the story wasn’t just some twist about Samantha being a lesbian; there’s also conflicts like her parents’ acceptance, with religious inclinations being a key factor in their dismissive attitude after she comes out. When considering some in my extended family are conservative-leaning Catholics, I’ve wondered if there’s the chance some of my cousins’ kids may experience a similarly disparaging treatment were they to come out. And since the game’s framing device is you playing Samantha’s sister it’s a way of both her, and the player, acquiring an understanding and sympathy of that complex experience. These kinds of contemplative afterthoughts wouldn’t have occurred had these developers stored away their ‘personal politics’ while making this game.

Wrap-up:

With all this said, does this mean every game and/or game review has to bring up politically-focused considerations? Of course not. There’s dozens upon dozens of great palette-cleansers that I’m a big fan of playing. It also doesn’t take much sleuthing through my own user-submitted content to see excitement in praising nuanced game design, story structure, visuals, and more. There’s so many avenues to explore and discuss that don’t even broach socio-political topics; but at the same time, whenever such conversations are had pouting over the very notion that someone’s bringing them up, or incorporating them into their work, makes you look like the same petulant child you depict your opponents of acting.

In closing, it can feel mind-numbing to see a certain collective within this medium’s fanbase so absurdly infatuated with the superficial trappings of maturity without displaying consideration of meaningful maturity in the process. Hoping games are taken seriously in the broader culture yet yearning to dictate what those terms mean; as if there’s a way to be art with no strings attached. That’s not how it works. We can’t just clamor for the adulation of being an expressive medium capable of the same impact as film or books without also receiving a similar level of scrutiny. If that’s too much to ask then…it’s just going to be something lesser, eternally content with not carrying the same capacity as those other forms of artistic expression. I’m pretty adamant of where I stand on that notion; hopefully you feel the same.

Links:

19. https://blogjob.com/oneangr...
20. http://www.oneangrygamer.ne...
21. http://n4g.com/channel/gone...

[coolbeans]

Oh yes! The strained SW-inspired blog titles continues! >:D

Anyways, I hope everyone enjoyed the 2-part blog. Please feel free to leave your comments and/or questions down below, or in Part 1's comment section if you're so inclined.

[opinionated]

Philosophy is different. If you group identity politics in with real ideologies then you are ignorant. Real politics have nothing to do with the superficial skin deep platitudes of modern brain rot we call politics. That's like comparing any rand to Anita sarkeesian.

[coolbeans]

Sure, philosophy is different...which is why I don't touch much on that aspect within this blog.

"If you group identity politics in with real ideologies then you are ignorant."

https://www.google.com/#q=i...

Take your accusations of ignorance to somewhere it may actually apply. Politics as to what I've been discussing above does appear to apply; just changing the name to "real politics" shows you committing a No True Scotsman fallacy. The way I see it: "politics" applies much more broadly than you believe. Examining & discussing in-group/out-group dynamics which carry real-world consequences (like say anti-discrimination laws across certain US states) seems just as "real" of a political discussion as your local municipality's hypothetical budget cuts. Both can equally exist under such a broad term.

"That's like comparing any rand to Anita sarkeesian."

...what? I mean...I'm talking about creation & critique in this 2-part blog, but that doesn't mean I've directly compared them.

[opinionated]

My apologies. I thought cursing wasn't an issue and I didn't see moderator lol. I didn't mean it in a bad way or an attack. Do you see what I'm trying to say though? I talked about the collapse of Andrew Ryan and the whole paradox scenario with infinite when they came out. I don't want politics out of games, I think that stuff is great, I want "real politics". My favorite games are the dystopian games, the rise and fall of great societies. They can be thought provoking without a heavily scripted narrative.

It doesn't take any thought to look at your skin color (or whatever superficiality) and decide what group you belong to. It's only political because there are mobs of enforcers who attack the dissenters, they made it political. That's what your definition says. Identity politics are harmful to a free society in my opinion. Not the discussion of identity politics but the practice of it. Things like affirmative action have been proven to be incompetent and it never goes as planned. It almost always does the opposite of intention and makes things worse. The war on poverty was a disaster, the war on drugs is a disaster, everybody has gone to rapture was a disaster. A virtue signal is not real policy, there are records of the consequences and the results are atrocious. The failure is ignored because "they meant well" and that is unacceptable in my view. That's why I said it's not real politics. It's not "good/interesting politics" I should probably say. Though I do agree that personal politics are just everybody's core beliefs and has a very broad description. I place certain creeds over others and make no bones about it, I expect this is normal for everyone.

[coolbeans]

No problem. I knew there was no malice directed at me when you stated that, rather it was just a slip of the tongue. I wasn't a fan of marking it when the whole comment was helpful in clarifying a few things. I'll copy-paste a lot of it in this comment.

-"There is a huge difference between attacking a game like bioshock that is about ayn rand "objectivism" just because it offends you. And then attacking a game because it "objectifies" certain characters or doesn't have an equal representation. Sarkeesian has been a part of the creation process as an advisor of issues like these. One is philosophical, has substance behind it and can generate discussion. It is political, it's about a real systemic ideology and society. The other is largely hollow, superficial skin deep Balkanization. You are a part of a group by birthright instead of individuality or merit."

1.) Citation needed in regards to Sarkeesian's proposed influence. If you're talking about that Mirror's Edge: Catalyst debacle, EA refuted that already. http://segmentnext.com/2014...

2.) From this 2nd + 3rd comment, I can understand what you're trying to communicate but I don't necessarily agree with it. It's true that Ayn Rand and her political philosophy covers a lot of ground in regards to morality, the role of government, and much more. It presents deep challenges to our perceived norms--even today. Even with this considered, I still think you were using a No True Scotsman b/c being this deep, philosophical thing isn't the only requirement to be political, or simply politics that are interesting/good. Just like Ken Levine & Irrational Games can make a political game with the Bioshock series, so too can I make something political that's just a twine game or choose-your-own-adventure that's more limited in scope (let's say the corruption of my local mayor or budget cuts to the police department).

3.) I think a big blind spot from you is not considering how much "skin-deep" issues have influenced society. Race has been a huge issue for all of the USA's history to some degree or other. A game like Mafia III is political by examining civil rights during the late 60's. Gone Home showcases a common response by religious parents in the mid-90's: a rather dismissive attitude towards the notion of their child being gay/lesbian. That kind of attitude shaped politics during that time, and still do in the US to lesser extent today (depending on which state you’re in).

[opinionated]

1.) Pure assumption on my part. I have seen everyone from Neil druckmann to the saints row guys thanking her for work and how it changed them as a studio. I did hear she was official on the mirrors edge game though, I assumed it wasn't the only one but I don't follow her work honestly. Have you seen the new agents of mayhem gameplay from the saints row guys? The roller derby chick that scratches her butt and spits like a dude lol. It's interesting to see the "gender role" activist influence sometimes to say the least. I like the volition devs though, their games are always decent and I'm hyped for AOM.

2.) I don't think everyone can do what Levine did. Pushing politics to the extremes is what I think makes interesting political games. GTA is a political satire in the terms you describe but I wouldn't describe it as a political game. I never stopped moving in bioshock, the story was just a optional tape recording that I picked up every once in awhile, simplistic but it worked. Best storytelling and voice acting I have experienced so far and it could get deep if you decided to look at it more deeply. It was based on philosophy, a roast of rands ideas and I loved it. Having a fun shooter game to play at the same time is really hard to do I'd imagine.

3.) I disagree that it's a huge issue today to the vast majority of people. I feel that the identity politics crowd are segregationists and race baiters but they are a small minority. They want us to go back to the 60s with a new wave movement called "intersectionality". The same banner flown by the recent white hating bioware guy. I agree that mafia 3 was political and that the civil rights issues were real. I don't think the people that cry racist today have a clue of what it was like back in the Jim Crow oppression. I think they are clownish honestly lol. I guess what I mean is that you will learn about rand and segregation in a politics class. You're not going to learn about the mafia or how to come out to your right wing fascist parents in a politics class lol. That's just personal family stuff. I don't see that as political just as I don't see the political satire GTA as political even though it clearly is lol. But I did acknowledge that personal politics can mean anything including cultural, it's just core beliefs.

[coolbeans]

Part 2:

-"Bioshock is easily my favorite game and that's why I decided to comment. It's heavily political and to put something like gone home in the same category is a offensive joke in my opinion. Identity politics has no substance and the games that promote it mostly just virtue signal. There is no discussion to be had over tracers sexuality like their is objectivism and collectivism. Who cares? It's not political, it's a sexual preference."

1.) I think you'd be surprised just how many subtle design queues from Bioshock are utilized in Gone Home. But it’s not like there’s some kind of competition. It's possible for two completely different games to BE political without having to have such deep examinations about x, y, or z. Gone Home was never trying to do that. Its focus was on providing an intimate portrait of a high-schooler going through a turbulent time in her life. While it may not COMPLETELY reshape everything I’ve ever known like some book by Noam Chomsky, Milton Friedman, etc. it nevertheless presented something that I ruminated on long after the credits rolled. And I believe it deserves credit for that.

2.) Well if you look at link #20, apparently there is some discussion to be had about Tracer's sexuality. Because, going by what the writer (popular GamerGate reporter) indirectly suggests: some people just want to relax and not worry about "regressive" politics invading their games…which somehow Tracer sexuality does. Nevermind that it’s just a lore detail and not blatant in any way during gameplay. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy from people who seem to consider themselves "pro-developer freedom" moaning...about a developer's creative decision.

-"Btw I am all about creators making what they want...People can create whatever they want."

I'm glad you and I are on the same page here. :)

[opinionated]

1. Fair enough.

2. Gamergate was a left wing vs left wing battle that has needed to happen for a hundred years. It's healthy believe it or not, instead of the robotic collective they usually have. The right wing in the US is like 15 different factions. There is only one left wing. I'm not in that fight but I can see the Marxist tactics on both sides. It's a culture war. One side is pissed about identity stuff not being shown enough and other side gets pissed when devs pander to it.

[coolbeans]

Alright. I think I can squish this one down to one response.

-" 1.) I have seen everyone from Neil druckmann to the saints row guys thanking her for work and how it changed them as a studio. I did hear she was official on the mirrors edge game though, I assumed it wasn't the only one but I don't follow her work honestly."

Well, you suggested she was an adviser, which assumes some kind of role in the company or involved with development. Which is why EA refuted that claim & the petition. That hysteria only caught on b/c some overzealous (and kinda creepy) Destructoid blogger tried pushing that narrative. But is she an influence? Okay, sure. But that's kind of the nature of any creative medium: taking influences from all kinds of prominent figures--some of which aren't as well-received as others.

-"2.)"

I appreciate your admiration for Bioshock's quality. In regards to GTA: I think the FIRST & most prominent categorization would be that it's a 'satirical' game (discounting game genres that is). The question then becomes: what is it satirizing? Politics (US in particular) is one of its biggest focal points. The way I see it: that ought to be more than enough to open itself up to the kind of critiques someone like Carolyn Petit had made.

-"3. I disagree that it's a huge issue today to the vast majority of people."

Perhaps not the vast majority (depending on how you determine that), but I would implore to examine which US states still have laws on the books that I've brought up here.

-"2. [Part 2 comment] Gamergate was a left wing vs left wing battle that has needed to happen for a hundred years. It's healthy believe it or not, instead of the robotic collective they usually have."

Can't say I buy that personification of GG tbh--especially when a pretty right-wing guy like Adam Baldwin's the one who started that hashtag. Plus, for being such a "left-wing" group that's totes for free speech and creative freedom, do you not find it a bit strange for one of GG's most prominent journalists on the subject to be even griping--not directly of course--about something as innocuous as Blizzard announcing Tracer as a lesbian? Because that's what you'll find in link #20.

[opinionated]

1. The fact that she is a prominent figure is confusing to me. My point was that comparing her cherry picked Frankfurt critical theory nonsense to ayn Rand is disappointing to say the least. If she didn't offer her official services to companies then I was mistaken, it was just something I heard and it's totally believable given the undeniable influence spoken by the developers themselves.

2. Yup I agree that it's political satire. I wouldn't describe it as a political game personally.

3. The vast majority of us are not fringe left or fringe right. The term "silent majority" was coined to give contrast to the small but vocal loudmouths. Which laws do you mean? Can you give an example of some state laws that infringe on constitutional rights in the same way segregation or slavery did?

3. What I mean by left wing vs left wing is the tactics. I don't know who started the hashtag and I didn't follow it that closely. From what I have seen though, the stuff about fake journalism was real. Gaming media is shameless, almost completely rotten (like most media these days). I'm not hating on that aspect. When gamergate would have mass email campaigns threatening advertisers with boycotts and everything else. That is a Marxist tactic, that is literally no different then neogaf or whoever bombarding a dev because you can see a characters panties. If you scrolled through the gamergate hashtag you would see nothing but self proclaimed left wingers. They were socialist egalitarians that rejected the identity politics that the main game publications were pushing. That's why I found it interesting, the left wing vs left wing battle rarely happens. The collective force of unity is their bread and butter. Opposed to the right wing who are at each others throats constantly.

[coolbeans]

-"1. The fact that she is a prominent figure is confusing to me...."

You can thank the worst of her detractors for that. A plethora of anti-Semitic, sexist, etc. comments were hurled her way just for the very announcement of such a Tropes vs. Women game series. That got picked up by a lot of game sites and certain YouTubers just kept droning on and on about her before, during, and after her episodes released to the point where everyone in gaming just HAD to have known about her by now. EDIT: And I want to be clear that I've not directly compared her to Ayn Rand in either the blog itself or my comments. Two different people can be involved in politics, culture, etc. to SOME capacity without being comparable to one another. Just like I'm not going to compare the late Christopher Hitchens to some smaller fish that advocates for school choice.

-" If she didn't offer her official services to companies then I was mistaken..."

I guess it depends on how you're delineating between services or the advisory role mentioned earlier. She's given general talks that've been at certain expos I'm sure writers, developers, etc. attend. She's had talks with teams, but never any news (that I recall) of being directly hired and/or advising games in development.

-"Can you give an example of some state laws that infringe on constitutional rights in the same way segregation or slavery did?"

To that degree? Well, presenting terms like "slavery" into this conversation is a lot more extreme than what I've brought up. Re-read how I've phrased those sentences and then watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

-"3. What I mean by left wing vs left wing is the tactics."

I see. I suppose that's a way to look at it. I can't say I really buy the notion of seeing "nothing but left-wingers" etc. etc. when looking up the GG hashtag. How many of those self-same people who were a part of that went nuts over Donald Trump, for instance? Even basket-cases like self-proclaimed "white nationalist on paper" Davis Aurini talked about liking the hashtag and being involved at the beginning when it was more of a cultural movement (anti-feminist/anti-left flavor). I don't want to generalize that as being the norm--far from it, but it's tough for me to have such a clean picture as you seem to after seeing some of what went down.

[opinionated]

1. That's a part of it I'm sure. The main reason the hate was so strong was because the media piled on it like it was some revolutionary new thesis, some earth shattering breakthrough in the way we look at society. The media adopted the same mindset. I have seen the tropes video and it's mostly cherry picked/loaded statements. Utter nonsense. I have nothing against her personally but I know where her mindset comes from "critical theory" and I reject that stuff completely.

I know you didn't. I don't remember why I brought her up or bioshock lol. Oh yeah, when you were calling people hypocritical for wanting to take something out of a game (identity stuff) you said something could be taken out that they like because of complaining. The thumbnail is "no gods or kings, only man". Textbook ayn rand stuff. I was merely pointing out the difference between identity stuff and philosophy stuff. I don't think they weigh the same on the scales. Those were just the examples I used to convey my point.

2. Her services as in getting paid to influence and advise the developers. I know for a fact she has influenced developers, I don't know if she was ever paid for her services. I heard she was but I didn't care enough to confirm.
If she wasn't then my mistake.

3. My bad. My thoughts leaked from the comment to the user below lol. I don't know what you mean then. That oppression doesn't exist anymore yet you would think it was worse than slavery after hearing how racist and misogynistic modern society is from the identity crowd. Our society is civil besides the few instigators who get unwarranted attention.

4. How is it hard to buy. Most young people are left wingers. That's the draw of the left wing philosophy, free college, free healthcare etc. the left wingers in gamergate just happen to be anti-identity politics. They don't see themselves as black, white, gay, etc, they see themselves as gamers and the media told them they didn't matter anymore and set them off. Like you said it's not really political as much as it is cultural. A fight against the media for the narrative.

Trump got most of the working class union democrats to vote for him too. Life long left wingers voted for trump. Were they voting for trump or voting against Hillary though? That's the real question. I voted against Hilary myself, I'm not a left winger though. Trump is more left wing than I would like.

[coolbeans]

1.) Not so much the thesis, but the format. Utilizing a video essay series specifically examining sexist tropes in games hadn't really been done like that before. Most sites jumped on the bandwagon of talking about it AFTER it received such vitriolic responses.

I see. Well, for context as to why I went with that Bioshock thumbnail comes back to something I alluded towards in Part 1. Here's the portion:

"...and yet, a reviewer that may sternly believe in their artistic qualifications and analyzes a game’s content and meaning are disparaged from doing so—at least when it’s broaching a topic they’re not comfortable with considering."

Bioshock's always been one of those 'comfortable few' for people to examine & discuss how Rand's Objectivism was critiqued throughout the game. Nary a peep from anyone who'd dare suggest "keep your politics out of mai games" when it propped up games as artistic or meaningful. But when a negative, if small, criticism is given AGAINST a popular game (like GTA) it's time to batten down the hatches. It wasn't my original thumbnail there, so that's why I changed to current one.

2.) As mentioned before, I see an adequate disparity between getting payments to do lectures and being directly involved within development itself. Everything can be walked back on in the former, the latter not so much. As shown in my link before: the latter doesn't apply to her.

3.) It's still as follows in my 2nd reply to you: that "skin-deep" issues still greatly affect portions of modern society, such as in the US. My video link discussed how certain states still allow discriminatory actions. That is very much political.

4.) Because as I already mentioned before, the hashtag was started by a right-wing actor and a literal white nationalist admitted to catching on to the movement in its infancy. I'm therefore left with little doubt that more people on the right (and perhaps now alt-right) may have also been involved in it. Rendering your suggestion of it just being "left wing vs. left wing" incorrect.

"Trump got most of the working class union democrats to vote for him too."

Yes, but let's not pretend those single-issue voters can be considered in the same group as the one we're talking about.

But I feel like we're getting dragged into this GG discussion now, whereas my focus was specifically aimed at the double standards of one GG reporter. "Ambivalence" would be the word I'd use when it comes to the overall topic of GG, its intentions, etc. I'll just leave it at that.

[opinionated]

1. Cherry picked YouTube critiques have never been done before? Well anyways, I didn't know about gamergate until after the "gamers are dead" articles so I can't really comment. I just remember thinking "wow look at these idiots trash their audience and commit suicide..." lol.

I never saw the first part of your blog honestly. My mistake if I took it out of context.

2. Influence is direct involvement imo. To me it sounds like a pity party going by your part one response. "Lets pay her since she was trashed on the internet". I would find that more acceptable than actually believing what she says lol.

3. I couldn't watch the video. YouTube is blocked at my work. Discrimination is a lot more prevalent in the eyes of someone like sarkeesian than the average person though. Reality is relative I guess. Like I said, these days programs like affirmative action and the war on poverty (meant to help black people) have done the complete opposite and trashed communities. Is that not discriminatory just because it had "good intentions"? The systemic oppression doesnt come from where these people say it does. The identity left is no different from the Christian Right that would attack games like gta. Zero difference. Faith based opposition and morality police.

4. Ok I see what you are saying. Adam Baldwin did not start gamergate lol. He might have started the hashtag in a joking sense but he did not start that catastrophe. He wasn't the ring leader lol. And of course some right wing folk would join in on the left attacking their own. I'm just going by what I have seen.

A couple gamers that got jobs at websites were adamantly left wing and anti-identity stuff. Liz something or another got a job at escapist. The tag was full of leftys. I don't get the whole "alt-right" thing either. They are even more minuscule than the SJW left. Like I said there are many alt-rights. You have the libertarians, establishment bushies, the free market guys, the evangelicals, the corporate cronies, on and on. "Alt-right" has no meaning, it's just a way to demonize a group of people without actually listening to what they say. In gamergate terms, the "alt-righters" were actually "alt-lefters" which is why I found it interesting. I'm not trying to sell you though, if you don't believe me that's fine. Anyways the convo was fun!

[coolbeans]

-"1. Cherry picked YouTube critiques have never been done before?"

No, CinemaSins existed before them. Seriously, you know what I mean. It's most likely the first in its kind of video essays to exclusively focus on tropes against women in video games.

_"I never saw the first part of your blog honestly. My mistake if I took it out of context."

Well that's not very helpful to this discussion, is it? :P

-"2. Influence is direct involvement imo."

I guess we'll just butt heads here then. Let me put it this way: reading Marx's work may have some implicit influence on creators, but that doesn't suddenly mean his direct involvement is noted during that one comedic sequence in Grim Fandango. Whether on campus or elsewhere, people give talks that may pose different perspectives all the time. Working with that person like staff? Different ballpark.

-"Like I said, these days programs like affirmative action and the war on poverty (meant to help black people) have done the complete opposite and trashed communities. Is that not discriminatory just because it had 'good intentions'?"

I do agree with you on the negative effects affirmative action and war on poverty have done. When you have the time, I hope you do check out that Youtube vid & re-read my earlier comments to see where I'm coming from.

-"4. Ok I see what you are saying. Adam Baldwin did not start gamergate lol."

Right, just as I said earlier. I didn't suggest he was a ring leader, only that he started the hashtag, which--I must say--was inspired by a YouTube video that made some dubious claims. But for a guy who may not be a ring leader, he was pretty vocal about the movement afterwards starting the hashtag too.

https://www.google.com/#q=A...

In any case, I appreciate you presenting your thoughts/experiences about it. Though I will be completely honest that I'm incredibly skeptical of how you've personified it.

[opinionated]

1. True. I have never seen someone call saving a princess "internalized misogyny" before lol. Those stories are older than time itself.

I just never saw it lol. The bioshock image made me click.

2. I see what you are saying. I think Marx and Lenin are directly involved, unfortunately lol. It's not a roast of their ideas, it's their ideas out into practice. We can agree to disagree though. And I will watch the video.

4. Personified it? What do you mean? He's just one guy though who started a hashtag movement on accident lol. I think he was actually mocking gamers at first with the reference to the watergate scandal.

This is one of the first images I saw.

http://giant.gfycat.com/Bas...

I know they were left wing because I disagreed with them wholeheartedly with their mob ambush tactics, personal attacks and political views like socialism. The thing is I respected them, they were genuinely funny and I was proud of them for breaking off and standing up for gaming against a crappy media. I have respect for debate and discussion like we just had even though we are probably completely different. Civility can go a long way but the modern right has no idea how to fight the modern left. They cave faster than a wet paper bag against the Marxist assault. I guess to beat a wolf you need to be a wolf.

[BeardedPriest]

Guys says that Gone Home isn't political when gay rights were a huge legal contention in the United states for a such a long time. *Facepalm*

[opinionated]

Gays have always had the same rights as straights. Emphasis on the word "were" also because the scotus decided that the equality clause applied to gay marriage. "Living constitution". The indentity politic people love to hijack the 14th amendment that was dedicated to black slaves. People that actually did have their rights as citizens infringed upon and had a civil war to stop. It was put in our federal law so that no state could deny it. There is no comparison. To IP people the equality clause is the excuse used for everything they do, illogical egalitarians with the skeleton key. It's political in the sense that some states recognized it and some states didn't. Marriage wasnt a right, it was a state issue. The identity politics people hate federalism unless the pendulum swings their way. States like leftist California hate states rights when they in charge of the central federal beast. They are authoritarian when in rule. When the other party strolls in it's secession time lol. The hypocrisy is so laughable.

I'm a states right guy, I can finally relate to these people. You want trump to leave your state alone, welcome to the party. Welcome to the entire point of our political structure. It doesn't matter if you have 55 million people in your state or 1 million, you each get 2 senators. States are supposed to be more able in terms of their own decisions. Our law shouldn't be decided by 9 black robes unless it does indeed impede on our constitutional rights. They do not legislate, their personal opinions shouldn't matter. I think gay marriage would have been legalized eventually anyways give or take a few really religious states. Same with weed. These kinds of things just take time, the iron fist pillage of instant gratification only repeats history and drives a wedge. That's human nature though, what can you do?