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Toshiba HD-DVD, The winner of format war?

Toshiba has sent all troops to the war field to make a pretty tough christmas for Sony's Blu-Ray. In a fantastic move by Toshiba, Walmart and BestBuy more than 90,000 HD-DVD players sold during last weekend.

Within three days, HD-DVD format significantly increased its installed base and sold nearly as many as the best-selling stand-alone Blu-ray DVD player has sold since its launch.

Toshiba A2 HD DVD was the 20th position on the Google's Hot Trends in thursday November 1st. Near 100,000 , $99 HD-DVD players sold on Nov 2. That's $200 less than Toshiba's $299 list price and $100 off retail pricing of $199. Sony's dominant Blu-ray standalone player,the BDP-S300, is $499 and has shipped about 100,000 since it bowed this summer.

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asia.cnet.com

Danja - contributor
Published: 737 days 20 hours ago | Article | Tech

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scottie2521 - 737 days 20 hours ago

1 -

man y'all go to the bottom of the ocean looking for these stories, LOL!

EDIT: Cnet Asia? i'm not saying Cnet isn't a valid source, its just funny to see someone went to their asian site to find a story. obviously they were looking hard.

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cooke15 - 737 days 20 hours ago

1.1 -

Cnet is the bottom of the ocean?

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Thugbot187 - 737 days 20 hours ago

1.2 -

Clearly Scottie doesn't know...

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shmee - 737 days 20 hours ago

1.3 - CNET is owned by MS

BD is beating HD DVD 2;1 in NA and 9:1 in JAPAN at the moment

www.eproductwars.com/dvd

standalone HD DVD players.....???? HD DVD is non existent outside NA

even in NA BD outsells it 2:1 consistently in terms of softwares.

However Spidey 3, Rata, Pixar and cars are pounding the next gen charts as we speak so expect that margin to extend to 10:1 in the upcoming weeks

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Snukadaman - 737 days 19 hours ago

1.4 - shmee you mean you dont belive vgchartz yet you belive this eproductwars.com place??

Where are they getting their numbers from.I dont see nowhere where they say how they get their numbers...are they also pulling them out of their azz like vgchartz?

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1.5 jiggyjay | 737 days 19 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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enzobot24 - 737 days 15 hours ago

1.6 - @jiggyjay

Don't go into economics....

That 2:1 ratio still means Blu-ray is selling better - that's all that matters.

No matter how loyal HD DVD's install base is - 40% of PS3 owners are still buying twice as many high-def discs.

On a side note, Paramount was "compensated" by Toshiba and NEC to go HD DVD... they were perfectly happy being neutral before.

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Gizmo_Logix - 737 days 11 hours ago

1.7 - $99 quality?

Nope. Might want to check the upscaling ability of those players. Crappy!

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wallace1000 - 737 days 8 hours ago

1.8 - @enzobot24

Man you know a lot of people. There are about 5 million PS3 owners right and you know 40% of them are buying blu ray movies?! How do you keep track of 2 million friends? Or maybe you are full of crap because the PS3 owners i know (about 8) bought it for games and don't care about blu ray movies. If we apply your magic statistics to my sample, oh no i get 0%. Time for me to write an article about how 0% of PS3 owners are buying blu ray movies. I will just put a note at the bottom stating i have a sample size of 8 :-P

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C_SoL - 737 days 20 hours ago

2 - man, i just want it to get it over with...

Blu-Ray FTW.

But, i don't really care. i just want a format to win....

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jaja1434 - 737 days 20 hours ago

2.1 -

I'll give you this. If you agree to realize that about 1 out of 3 PS3 owners buy BR movies, as given by the fact that BR has a 2:1 lead in terms of sales. Then I'll concede that it has 1.3 million + whatever its standalones.

Deal?

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Grassroots - 737 days 20 hours ago

3 -

hahahah, your right it's over! Just look at the line up of movies, the software will sell on blu-ray of hd-dvd anyday!!!! They get Bourne, Shrek, Transformers, and the newly American Gangster. Most the other hits are on the other format, not to mention Mr. Spielberg's first HD movie Close Encounters. So these articles are a waste of people energy and time to right, read, or even wipe with.

People must underestimate Blu-ray and Disney. It's one (Toshiba) versus most of the electronic world backing blu-ray.

I'm honestly just sick of these stories taking up N4G, they are pointless, and well I'm here to look at game news.

I do apologize for the little rant about, just sick of seeing these horrible articles.

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Cherchez La Ghost - 737 days 13 hours ago

3.1 - Wow...,

It's funny that you say that. Despite the fact that Blu-Ray has more studios, if you go to Circuit City (or Best Buy) they have the equivlent row amount of movies for HD-DVD as to Blu-Ray. Remember this also, 80% of these movies are remakes of older movies in Hi-Def. Face the facts, since HD-DVD died at least 20,000 times on this board..., "IT'S THE RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD"!!!!! BOOOO!!!!!

Remember, everyone does not play video games, so why buy a PS3 for a Blu-Ray player. We cannot say this about the 360, since the HD-DVD add-on is optional and strictly for HD-DVD movies only.

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chrno - 737 days 20 hours ago

4 -

lol.."stand-alone Blu-ray players" Notice how it does not take the ps3 into account, again.

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jaja1434 - 737 days 20 hours ago

4.1 -

So you commented on this without even reading the article? How do I know this, because he explicitly takes about the PS3 in 3 separate paragraphs. So umm try to actually read next time before you comment least you look like a moron. :)

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Thugbot187 - 737 days 20 hours ago

4.2 - Why so many fanboys loose credibility- they fail to read.

"BDA claimed that Blu-ray is the premiere high definition format of choice with 25 different companies having released Blu-ray related products and more than one million PlayStation 3s shipped to the U.S.

Considering PS3 stations sold in US and Europe and Asia, It seems that Blu-Ray is the winner of the fight and has outpaced HD-DVD with an order of 5 to 1."

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beavis4play - 736 days 3 hours ago

4.3 - i read the article thug

it just seems weird to me to not put the ps3 in at the beginning with the rest of the players. this "stand-alone" crap is getting old. the ps3 plays blu-ray movies.-it's a player. and i'm not a fanboy. but the way these stories are written is flawed. whether it's the add-on for the 360, ps3, or other players made by diff. companies; they all should be counted. i think you lose credability by not wanting a more accurate article to represent what's going on.

and by the way- there are over 2 mil. ps3s in US.-not 1 mil.

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Danja - 737 days 20 hours ago

5 -

BLU-RAY...FTW...

"I DO BLU"....

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SharpeNoir - 737 days 20 hours ago

6 - This is getting embarrassing...

If you're a fanboy about to post something to do with this ridiculous format war DON'T! You're embarrassing yourself and everyone around you! It's sad and you should be doing better things with your time! Why do you care anyway? The format backers don't care about you! Toshiba, Sony, Microsoft, they don't care about you! So why do you care about them? Yeah they might make cool technology for us to enjoy. But at the end of the day they charge a price for it! Its no free gift or favour to you! Since when do they repay you defending them in forums and message boards? By selling you things!?! Making you part with your hard earned cash!?! They don't care about you! All they care about is your money!!!

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Snukadaman - 737 days 20 hours ago

6.1 - look at the persons avatar that posted this...

do you think he is a hd-dvd fanboy?

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kydrice - 737 days 17 hours ago

6.2 -

Because everone who has some kind of anti-MS icon is really an anti-MS guy? Your logic is massive fail.

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jaja1434 - 737 days 20 hours ago

7 -

So that one day sale they did sold almost as much as BR total sales? Excluding the PS3 of course.

Anyways I predict...
30-HD is dead
7-inferior format
56-no 1080i
62-desperate

12 intelligent comments
And lastly- 20 know don't care either way.

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XXXRATED - 737 days 20 hours ago

8 -

is the author kidding me toshiba has a tiny little ledge to stand on and the blu-ray truck is heading right at them doing 200mph can't you see? 7 million plus 100000 = 7100000 bluray players hddvd 490000 players + 100000 addons for xbox = 590000 how does this even come close to making any lead for hddvd. looks like toshiba is trying to snipit without stating the real numbers.

i like bubbles!

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pwnsause - 737 days 20 hours ago

9 -

you guys are kidding making these crappy stories right

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testerg35 - 737 days 20 hours ago

10 - So...

that's where all your money goes.. movies! No wonder no one is buying PS3 games.

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jackdoe - 737 days 20 hours ago

11 -

Still, you can't deny the importance that the PS3 plays in the format wars.

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Snukadaman - 737 days 20 hours ago

12 - too soon...but those 90K new owners of hd-dvd will count

lets see who wins in the upcoming months...

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13 HarryEtTubMan | 737 days 19 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

14 bootsielon | 737 days 19 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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Shaka2K6 - 737 days 19 hours ago

15 - Walmart and BestBuy more than 90,000 HD-DVD players sold during last weekend.

meh the articule already fails there it was shipped numbers not sold to costumers.
they really think their cheap 180i pos players will help them in the war, cnet pls.

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Gahigiddy - 737 days 19 hours ago

16 - Insanely stupid move.

Lower priced players make it affordable to hicks, but do these hicks have the cash for a setup which actually UTILISES HD?
NO!

You have to gradually reduce the price, which BR is doing wonderfully. PS3 has won this war singlehandedly.

This here is like throwing HD-DVD bricks at a Blu-ray tank.

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jaja1434 - 737 days 19 hours ago

16.1 -

Lets see the "hicks" count for about 90% of the buying market.
And the rich comprise the rest of the 10%

Now if you were a company which would you market to?

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Rooftrellen - 737 days 16 hours ago

16.2 -

"You have to gradually reduce the price, which BR is doing wonderfully. PS3 has won this war singlehandedly."

If a $100 off sale is dropping the price too quickly, what are the two $100 PS3 price drops, then?

It seems to me the only difference is that Sony has dropped the price of the best selling bluray player twice by the same amount this "large" price drop in the weekend sale has, making the bluray price drop more rapid.

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judd - 737 days 5 hours ago

16.3 - @16.2 - Your logic fails or you failed math class.

Dropping from $300 only a month ago down to $100 is a 66% drop. If the PS3 had been dropped from $600 to $400 (which it hasn't - different SKU, but that's an entirely different argument), that's only a 33% drop. Which is still less than if you are considering the Toshiba HD-DVD drop as being from $200 to $100 - a 50% drop. In reality, the PS3 was only dropped $100 - a 16.7% drop.

Taking the largest percentage of a drop for the PS3 that you can come up with (throwing out the idea of different SKU's), you find a 33% drop. The lowest percentage of a drop for the Toshiba HD-DVD drop is 50%. So, using the more favorable extremes for the Toshiba, the PS3 still has a significantly less price drop.

The same dollar amount of a price drop isn't the same drop. Would you consider something as expensive as a Dodge Viper having a $1,500 drop bigger or smaller than a Mustang having a $1,500 drop? Which one is more significant? The one that had a lower beginning point.

The dollar amount of a price drop is only relevant when you consider the percentage of the original price that it has been dropped.

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solidt12 - 737 days 19 hours ago

17 - 5.36 Million PS3/Blu-Ray players sold to date

Suck it.

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17.1 Bladestar | 737 days 19 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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DJ - 737 days 18 hours ago

17.2 - Don't listen to Bladestar.

PS3 actually has a slightly higher attach rate than the 360. It's also impossible to determine the attach rate of Blu-ray movies because it's unknown what percentage of PS3 owners are actively purchasing Blu-ray movies. (estimates say 15~20%, approximately)

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17.3 Bladestar | 737 days 17 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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Ignorant Fanboy - 737 days 17 hours ago

17.4 - DJ

owned

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THUNDERMARE - 737 days 16 hours ago

17.5 - bladester

I just want to point out that regardless of what the attachment rate is, the sale number still matter.
It really doesnt matter if HD-DVD got 100% attachment rate if it manage to see 300,000 players, BD just need 10% of attachment rate to make it even.
In business sense, its better to sell 100 million unites and have only 10-20% attachment rate rather than selling 10million and have 50% attachment rate.

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Fan Tastic - 737 days 19 hours ago

18 - Having a Fire Sale to blow out year old inventory does not win a war.

Don't be so naive.

The people who buy these are people who already have players or people who want the free pack ins with no intent of buying HD DVD's on a regular basis, also ebayer's living the American Dream.

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Shaka2K6 - 737 days 19 hours ago

19 - Hahaha.

cnet/microsoft?
asian?
blog?

lmao h-dud boys are getting desperate.

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darthv72 - 737 days 18 hours ago

20 - I find your lack of faith disturbing....

For there to be a clear cut winner, an exclusive of superior magnitude needs to be released in one format or the other. NO DVD EQUIVALENT!!!

History lesson for those who dont know this. Many years ago you had three competing formats in the music industry. Records, tapes and newcomer...CD's. The recording studios and the companies that press the different media were getting to a point where it was not cost effective to produce the same album on all three formats.

The majority of listeners had tape and record players but CD's were on the rise. The adoption rate of the new CD format was very much like the current HD format war. One way to "force" a decision was to start eliminating formats. The first to go (in this example) was records.

I think it was the debut album of Vanila Ice (somebody correct me if wrong) that has been touted as the first album released "SOLELY" on CD meaning there was no other format you could buy. Fans of the song had to buy CD players in order to play the album. A move that pretty much worked. Now it wasn't the first CD because there were lots of other artists with CD's on the market, but those other artists also had tapes and records for people to buy if they didnt have a CD player.

So you see one side could end this by securing a deal for a big name movie (not already out) and have it made SOLELY for their format. If it pays off it would have a similar effect to the music industry in the early 90's. I say it has to be a movie not out because if there is a DVD version chances are that people would buy that as that is considered the least common denominator.

Blu backers can still watch all the paramount and universal movies on their players. They will be upscaled dvd versions just as all hddvd supporters can watch all the disney and sony movies they want on their players in the same fashion. As long as there is this middle of the road option people will stick to it and pick up the HD version of a movie they want to see in their format of choice.

I would have thought Sony could tip the scales with SM3 being exclusive to Blu (not even dvd or umd version) but the number of people who dont have a blu player (not to mention the movie doesnt have the presence that the original did) was just too much for sony to risk. Perhaps another blockbuster but with dvd versions of LOTR and star wars already available it negates those franchises.

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Cuthroat - 737 days 5 hours ago

20.1 - Good idea, but...

the cost of a CD player was at most a couple hundred dollars. People have to go and get something besides the HD DVD or Blu Ray player - they need the TV (at least) with it, so now you are pushing up to at least around a $1000 - all for the purchase of one movie. The install base of High Defenition Television has to increase - this probably won't happen until a major television network goes HD only.

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darthv72 - 737 days 4 hours ago

20.2 - TV needed....maybe

I have seen many posts saying that even on a regular 4x3 set the colors and quality is better than regular DVD. Yes having a set that can do 720p and up is a boon for showing off the higher quality of an HD movie but for some they get the player then the set.

Point is they go hand in hand. How many people have a PS3 but don't have a HD set to play it on? Do you really think that for every PS3 sold that person has at least a 720p set to play it on? The same question applies to the 360. It supports HD resolutions for games and upscaled movies but does that mean that the 11+ million sold to consumers that all of them have an HD set? The answer to both analogies is NO!

You can enjoy the quality of the format of choice by simply looking beyond the constraints that may be in front of you now. Just think, you wont always be watching movies or playing games on a 20" 4x3 set. So why limit your purchase of something simply because you can't display it properly ATM?

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Vulcan Raven - 737 days 18 hours ago

21 -

so if the ps3 is used as a bluray player and continuously sells more movies how is shipping 90k a significant fact? So the idea that toshiba dropped the price to $99 and i already know that the ps3 dropped its price twice, so my point is say 2.5 million ps3 owners buy 2(5mil) movies each and the 90k hd dvd players sold buy 3 movies(270k) how is that a significant gain? just some questions i would like answers 2, thanks!

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crck - 737 days 18 hours ago

22 - I dont know how someone could paint this as a rosy picture

for HD-DVD. They lost a buttload doing this. What other company will want to make a HD-DVD player for such a loss? The answer is no one. Toshiba will continue to be the only company that makes these players and will be the only company to continue to lose money on them.

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kydrice - 737 days 17 hours ago

23 -

HD-DVD is winning because C|net Kazakhstan told me therefore it's true and no one can prove me wrong.

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level 360 - 737 days 17 hours ago

24 - get even

Think of the price ladies and gentlemen, it's all about the price.

Everybody knows it's a steal for a HD-DVD player and with a good branded ( Toshiba ) player.

Has the same visual experience to more comparable expensive counterparts.

With the rest of the money you save, you can buy some decent HD-DVD movies, snacks and put all the rest back to your bank account!

Get smart and even.

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Apocalypse Shadow - 737 days 16 hours ago

25 - sad bladestar.just sad.

360 has been on the market for an extra year.obviously,360 is going to have a higher ratio of games per console.

6.59/2 years to 3.58/1 year.

i remember when fanboys bagged ps3 at launch for having a ratio of 1.2 per ps3.now it's 3.58.ps3 gamers must be buying games.

as for toshiba,selling both units at bargain bin prices is not good.bluray is still selling more movies.and no other company wants to make hd-dvd players because there's no profit in it.

good thing toshiba is being bailed out by microsoft money.

mag lev................

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