DigitalFoundry: Killzone 2 Latency Analysis

Jager - 107 days 19 hours ago

For Killzone 2, they didnt patch it, they added an option to make the aiming quicker for those who b!tched about it in the first place. players can still use the original aiming, which is what i still use, because, guess what? there was nothing wrong with t in the first place. Just noobs QQ about no auto lock / aim assist.

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josuttis - 107 days 19 hours ago

I really hope other developers are studying Killzone 2's amazingly immerse controls.

Kiddie arcade shooters like Call of Duty and others where the player movement and guns act like a weightless gun on a stick just don't cut it anymore.

Killzone 2's linkage of weapon control with the player's animation and movement gives the player an incredible feeling of actually being right there on the battlefield.

Bunny hopping around and doing instantaneous 180s just feels retarded now. It was fun back in the 1990s in early fps games, but gaming has moved on and the bar has been raised by Guerrilla Games.

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raztad - 107 days 19 hours ago

@Meus

So, if someone disagree with you is a fanboy?

KZ2 controls is not everybody coup of tea, specially for COD4 lovers but this is nothing new (they were already present in KZ1 in a lesser way) and many hated the game because of it.

I do love KZ2's, it is a signature feature and force you to act more tactically cause it is not possible to do a split-second spin if someone flanks you. Onlines matches are always full, and a lot, so I'm not the only one that enjoy the game.

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ATY - 107 days 19 hours ago

The lies about the Killzone 2 controls were the last bit of desperation after a every other bit of FUD thrown at the game failed.

First it was gaming TV program that intentionally edited Jack Tretton talking about Resistance running live right there at the show over the Killzone 2 trailer to make it look like he was lying.

Then after Sony demoed Killzone 2 running live on PS3s that matched the 'impossible CGI' trailer, the FUD switched to claiming the game will suck because obviously if the graphics are that good...

Then after everyone was going nuts over the multiplayer beta and claiming it was the best or one of the best fps games they ever played, the FUD switched to claiming the single player would obviously suck if the multiplayer was so good

Then the amazing review rolled in and there was nothing left to try to trash the game.

Making up lies about 'controller lag' was the last bit of desperation to try to damage the game.

It is funny, and very sad, to see people still actually talking about the lies about the controls as if they were actually real.

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Meus Renaissance - 107 days 19 hours ago

Calling the gamers who didn't like the controls "kiddies" just shows your own immaturity levels, ironically. A gamer wanting to play an arcade racer instead of a simulator isn't any less of a gamer or an individual - yeah it's true although it might be shocking to some of you guys.

I personally have nothing against trying to make controls more immersive, but in a FPS when the main aspect of the game is shooting (especially online) - you need the player to feel the response of his controls. If he doesn't, then it doesn't matter how good it looks he will not enjoy it.

@raztad

No, people who disagree me aren't fanboys. But whenever this issue of KZ2's controls come up there seems to be a decisive and aggressive attitude towards people who called for it to be patched. Case in point the comments here calling them "kids" or "noobs". They seem to struggle to comprehend that a lot of people may not enjoy such controls.

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Rigmaster - 107 days 18 hours ago

Half of the garbage and lies spread about Killzone 2's incredible controls was part of the wider attempt by the gaming media to trash PS3 exclusives.

But the other half was all the kids who were use to huge amounts of auto-aim in games like Call of Duty and unrealistic weapons where you just point and shoot. The loaded up Killzone 2 and got destroyed by good players and started crying like babies that it obviously not them but Killzone 2's controls because they were all 'hardcore CoD players'.

Just for a sanity check I went back to the old archives of the Killzone 2 multiplayer threads on various sites. Not a single mention of the controls. Nothing but people going nuts over the mind boggling graphics and what an amazing multiplayer game.

Those controls in the multiplayer beta everyone was raving about were the exact same as the retail game.

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ATY - 107 days 18 hours ago

Guerrilla Games pulled off one the most amazing ownages I've ever seen by a company.

Back when the gaming boards were filled with non-PS3/Killzone 2 owners and players from arcadish shooters like Call of Duty screaming about 'teh controls', Guerrilla Games released a patch to the game and brilliantly made a vague statement about controls. But the controls were exactly the same. No changes.

The fools complaining about the controls fell for the bait and started claiming victory:

Some claimed 'teh lag' was fixed
Others claimed no, the acceleration curve was 'fixed'
Other claimed no, the deadzone was changed

It quickly became clear that non of the fools crying about the controls had any clue what they were talking about. It was a masterful way of destroying the controller FUD.

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HDgamer - 107 days 18 hours ago

I love Killzone 2 controls, I felt in control and that my weapons had weight to it. I honestly didn't see what people meant that the controls were difficult to use, only the part where they wanted to change the inputs to exactly like COD4 which what I didn't like at all. Although this is a sci-fi game it has realistic controls which is kinda funny because COD4 is based on realism but carries the arcade type of controls. Such a deep multiplayer with a great single player story to get into I don't see how anyone can't pass up this great game.

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morganfell - 107 days 18 hours ago

The twitchers were out of luck with Killzone 2. It requires skill (thanks goodness) I am so glad the CODers cry so much about the game. It's funny watching them come into a K2 match and get hammered.

K2 isn't for the mindless crowd. The coordination and tactical team effort necessary to win in Warzone combined with the weighty and immersive controls simply floor any other FPS title currently in release.

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HDgamer - 107 days 18 hours ago

This is the type of game that you don't need to run and gun. Take your time, wait till the enemies come in the room either blow them away with explosives, drones or your shotgun.

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Marquis_de_Sade - 107 days 18 hours ago

I disagree HDgamer, one of my gripes with the game is the guns are too accurate fired from the hip, with the exception of the STA 52, pretty much all the guns can be fired very efficiently form the hip.
Look at this video:

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ultimolu - 107 days 17 hours ago

Okay, so nobody can challenge your opinion even if they're not a fanboy. I used to have respect for you and your comments but now it's gone.

Good job labeling people like that.

On topic, as a female...I didn't have any problems with the controls. To me, the controls were easy to get used to.

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PLAYstar - 107 days 17 hours ago

Ok Meus, I myself is a Xbot, but let us just put that aside and have a serious conversation.

Ok so you said those who complain about the controls shouldn't be called as "kids" or "noobs"? Then what you call those who suck so much at video games and still put the blame on the controls? It's a simple question, but I doubt you can answer with a valid point. ;)

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Hutch2355 - 107 days 17 hours ago

Unfortunately its all fanboys that do this. Ps3 fanboys cry whenever you say anything bad about an exlusive, just as any 360 fanboy crys whenever you talk about rrod or anything else bad about there fav. system. The fact that you made a good observation about this game, from your opinion, and you get that many disagrees and hatred tells you that you hit a nerve. Personally I didn't like KZ2. Now you will see tons of disagree's and I will prob. lose bubles, but I didn't like it. I love my ps3, I loved uncharted, infamous, mlb the show, and I can't wait for uncharted 2, GT5, and the tons of other ps3 exclusives, but I will never understand the venom and hatred by fanboys on each side spewed at the other console. It is sad. Don't believe me, just watch the disagree's pile up and my bubble disapear.

On a side note, I live in Billings Montana, and if you are looking for a ps3 slim, my walmart had 9 this morning when I was there, so anyone in the area, go get one. I already got mine for my bedroom yesterday.

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Rofflecopter - 107 days 17 hours ago

i liked the controls, but i feel that a game like COD wouldn't work as well considering the fact that its a faster, twitchier game. Killzone had finesse and lots of skill is needed to dominate multiplayer, whereas COD is made to be more of a shooter for everyone.

As far as the hip firing thing, COD was really the first game to completely remove accuracy when not aiming down the sights. Taking Counter-Strike into account, you never aim down the sights unless you're sniping. In Killzone, aiming is simply a way to increase the range of your shooting.

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Real Gambler - 107 days 14 hours ago

Even if Digital Foundry and Eurogamer look like they love the 360 more, they also did an analysis of Halo 3.

http://www.eurogamer.net/vi...

There's about 3 frames difference between Halo suppositely twiching warp speed trigger and Killzone 2. Now keep in mind that again, results are ballpark, so errors are still possible.

Basically, there would be a 1/10th of a second delay in the trigger.

Can you move out of the way of a bullet in 1/10 of a second? Don't you think that after firing a few hundred bullets, you brain cannot adapt to the small difference? Do you think you can press a typical real life weapon, repetitively within 3/10 of a second (as showed on video).

If I were you, I would not worry or argue about the delay.

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fishd - 107 days 14 hours ago

Translation:I can't aim for sh1t unless the game does it for me

Maybe you should stop playing Cod

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Headshot81 - 107 days 14 hours ago

the contols are perfect, since they match up both the Key & mouse/DS3. I've played kz2 at my friends pad where he has the keyboard setup, i could tell you that its just as challenging to become accurate(maybe a really small but SLIGHT advantage).The controls add to the gameplay since we dont have people running around in closequarters with 1shotkill sniper rifles while having TWITCH perfect accuracy. You cant do those twitching 180's, so you need someone to watch your back if you want to live longer=Teamwork. I don't know about you guys, but KZ2 is the best fps out, ONLY for the hardcore. BOOOMMM HEADSHOT81 !!!!!!

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cmrbe - 107 days 11 hours ago

There is nothing wrong with KZ2 controls.I honestly love it to bits. God forbid if someone tries to make controls more realistic.

COD4 and KZ2 despite the fact that both are FPS are completely different games. Why don't you see this?.

An honest question to everyone. Do we as gamers want all games to play the same?.Do we all want every FPS game to control like COD?. Alot of you as well as the media b1tch about generic, hell KZ2 is mostly trashed by haters because they say its generic and yet when GG implemented a unique control scheme you guys b1tch about it?.

I have gamed for over 24 years now through 6 console gens. Every game i get to play i learned to adapt to its controls no problem and not b1tch about it because i understand that they are different games and devs have a specific control schemes that they believe is best for gamer to experience their games. Its just amazing how much you kids whine about different control schemes this gen.

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cyberwaffles - 107 days 11 hours ago

really people, the controls aren't bad if you just practice them. i like weight to my guns and movement like in bad company and killzone 2. i hate cod's false sense of weight when using RPGS and stuff, but cod's main problem is how people bunny hop into a room while laying down to kill someone. how can you jump so high and agile in the air when you got all that equipment and gear on? pisses me off when someone jumps like halo to get a cheap kill.

MW2 seems to be a little bit more weightier though; too bad they have knife throwing and dual wielding guns now. cod just gets noobier by the day.

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DaTruth - 106 days 19 hours ago

How could you call all the people who like KZ2 controls fanboys, and then cry about "teh venom, teh disagrees".

We disagree that everyone who enjoys KZ2 controls is a fanboy! If you generalize a bunch of people as fanboys, don't be surprised when they generalize you as a "kiddie, who can't play".

Some people on the net say some stupid things and then are surprised when it elicits a bad response! "Lol, I call everyone stupid fanboys and teh disagrees, teh bubble removal, teh venom spewing; what's wrong with teh fanboys!"

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aldesko - 107 days 15 hours ago

Same here. I recently played again after a hiatus and it took me a few rounds to get used to it, but then I was back to normal. I hope they don't change it in KZ3.

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Meus Renaissance - 107 days 19 hours ago

I can appreciate some fans wanting to have a bit more challenge in FPS's but to criticise others who want to play video games for fun instead of wanting "realism" in a game is just sad. The frustrating thing was I couldn't adapt to the deadzone which meant whenever I went online and dominated a match or get owned, I never felt joy or anger. It was like the entire match was a fluke and I couldn't enjoy it. What made it stupid was it felt the same when using even a pistol.

GG made a decision at first to add this to make the game "different to other FPS's" and whilst I agree some gamers lack a diversity in their tastes, I felt this example was a mistake by GG.

Killzone 2 would have not have been any lesser if it shipped the way it was post-patch. I don't think people enjoy simulation in their FPS's. The sales and reputations of other games illustrate that

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Cajun Chicken - 107 days 19 hours ago

"My psn is extravegant"

N4G quote of the week.

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Marquis_de_Sade - 107 days 19 hours ago

To be fair, I find Killzone 2 rather easy online, aiming down the sights is pointless with the ISA rifle. I haven't played much on my current account - Pvt_Joker_89 - but I have a 2.1 k/d ratio. This includes matches against generals + on the DLC maps, not just low rank scrubs.

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deadlybrand - 107 days 18 hours ago

did you watch the video before posting such comment!KZ2 is a good game,but from the looks it seems you have a better way to time latency them digitalfoundry.

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Ravage27 - 107 days 17 hours ago

imo the controls have the right balance, and i consider it to be the best of all the shooters i've played thus far.

There is a very nice sense of weight and recoil in KZ2 and it made shooting a gun extremely enjoyable. Getting a DS3 for this game is probably one of the best decisions i've made, love the rumble when firing a LMG.

Some ppl may have issues with controls and all but i can't understand why GG has to suffer such injustice. When you think about it, KZ2 has faced an endless barrage of criticism(mostly fanboyish bullsh*t) right from the start of development. Everytime GG silence the critics, there will be yet another 'issue' that pops up and gets blown out of proportion. It's like there are many people wanting the game to fail for 'some reasons'. Seriously, there isn't another game i can think of that has to go through such SH%T.

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aldesko - 107 days 15 hours ago

"I felt this example was a mistake by GG."

And people disagree with you... it's not the end of the world.

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nycredude - 107 days 14 hours ago

Meus

Just stop commenting cause the more you comment the more arrogant you look. Just because you think people don't like simulation in FPS don't make it true. I love it and I probably will NOT buy cod MW2 cause of it. Fact is twitch fps gaming is best reserved for a mouse and keyboard where it belongs.

As for your week proof that sales of other fps show that people don't want simulated fps, it's bogus.

You are comparing sales for a multiplatform game (assuming you are talking about COD) that is a very popular franchise against the second iteration of a fps that did NOT do very well the first time around.

And for the record they didn't make this decision to make the controls this way with Killzone 2,Killzone 1 had this already.

It's ok to not like the controls but acting like everyone should agree with you is a little childish and very arrogant.

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PshycoNinja - 107 days 14 hours ago

Killzone 2 gets so much sh^t since it came out its not even funny. I'm a dual console owner and I even know that Killzone gets so much unneeded sh^t.

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Oner - 107 days 13 hours ago

Some people just don't get it...

WEIGHT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TIME IT TAKES TO PULL A TRIGGER

When you press FIRE it should FIRE instantaneously. WTF!?!? Is so damned hard to comprehend? When I shoot my G19C there is no delay when I pull the trigger! So if GG wanted "realism" then there was no reason for Killzone 2 to have such delayed control latency. PERIOD.

Weight or whatever realism they tried to simulate is absolutely fine. But a delay in action is unacceptable. It is 2 DIFFERENT and separate things. There is more to it as well ~ like why a handgun "weighs" as much as a rocket launcher or fully loaded rifle and THAT also adds to the arguments (but that is yet ANOTHER separate issue but not really a big deal since that is negligible in the realm of play)

Simulation of Weight = Good
Input Timing Delay = Bad

It's that simple. One has to do with TIMING and the other with WEIGHT. I can't say it enough, it's 2 separate issues. BUT they amplify the "problem" when combined TOGETHER. THAT is where people get it mixed up and automatically say "Oh you are just a COD twitch noob shooter" even that in itself is BS since COD4 is not even a twitch shooter...the UNREAL titles on PC is a prime example of a twitch shooter...a HANDHELD controller based FPS can NEVER be a twitch shooter ~ get your definitions straight people ~

Seriously. To those who get it twisted ~ Understand & Comprehend the situation before you throw out labels about something you clearly don't properly "get". The weight & "feel" of Killzone 2 is awesome...but when I press fire it should fire right there and then. It's that easy.

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DaTruth - 106 days 19 hours ago

You're the one who first commented in the thread and called everyone who doesn't agree with you, a fanboy. How you don't understand the controversy, says much about your intelligence, and your hypocrisy!

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Marquis_de_Sade - 107 days 19 hours ago

In some aspects yes, the storyline is rather cliched, but the controls definitely separate it from the crowd, the only thing I don't understand, is why a pistol "feels" the same as an RPG or shotgun. Overall a top game though.

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Saaking - 107 days 19 hours ago

Well imo the story was good, or at least as good as most other FPS storyline. I enjoyed it more than COD4 or Halo 3's story and I found it quite compelling. The end definitely had me wanting more.

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Marquis_de_Sade - 107 days 18 hours ago

Don't get me wrong, it was a solid single player game, I just played it for the fun set pieces and gameplay rather than the storyline as it was essentially WW2 in space.

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Saaking - 107 days 18 hours ago

True, I saw some connections to WWII. I really hope they do some sort of epic galactic war in KZ3 :)

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OpenGL - 107 days 18 hours ago

Killzone 2 only runs at 30fps.

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Pandamobile - 107 days 17 hours ago

12 frames is almost 1/2 a second on KZ2.

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callahan09 - 107 days 16 hours ago

I don't know why their latency is so bad, because nearly half a second is pretty delayed, but when I play Killzone 2 I don't get nearly that bad of a latency between pulling the trigger and seeing the response on the TV.

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OpenGL - 107 days 18 hours ago

Plasmas suffer from input lag just like LCDs, they just have MUCH better response times(like 0.01ms), so you won't experience any ghosting.

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myothercar - 107 days 17 hours ago

The latency used to be worse than this. They chopped off 3-4 frames since the retail version. The latency was most noticeable when pressing the fire button. You don't need a slow-motion camera to notice it. Uncharted and Resistance 2 respond to R1 seemingly instantly, whereas in Killzone you can tap R1 and lift your finger off well before the gun fired. Like Guitar Hero and Rock Band, some FPS scenarios involve lining up your reticule waiting for the moving target to come into your crosshairs and then you fire. With latency the moving target is going to already be 2-3 feet past your crosshair.

And no, it's not controller or TV lag- as I said, Resistance 2 and Uncharted are lag-free. Also, scrolling through the XMB with my dpad is instant. Furthermore, it's not "weight," because I'm not even talking about the right stick and turning. I'm only talking about the shoot button in KZ2, R2 and UC:DF.

Gamasutra ran an article on the importance of responsiveness in videogames. You should check it out because it goes into the deeper reasons why gamers need latency-free controls.

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Rhythmattic - 107 days 16 hours ago

myothercar

I Agree.

Im thinking GG decided it should be like a real Guns trigger. It takes a moment......

Its never instant. No matter what people want to believe.

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Marquis_de_Sade - 107 days 18 hours ago

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I find it sad how you conform to the gamerzone rules.

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Saaking - 107 days 18 hours ago

What do you mean? I have to follow the rules else I get banned.

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Marquis_de_Sade - 107 days 18 hours ago

Don't take this personally, as you're certainly not the only one. I just feel like I'm talking to two different people. Which version of you (open zone or gamer zone) do you feel is a more honest representation of you?

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Mooey - 107 days 18 hours ago

I totally agree, man. When they updated with that patch to "fix" the controls, everything was retarded. The controls were heavy to add to realism.

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topdawg122 - 107 days 15 hours ago

Agree KZ2 isn't for noobs and the controls were just fine, just because they weren't as fast as cod or halo everybody started b*tchin. This game makes you think a little more tactically and methodical in order to win

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Marquis_de_Sade - 107 days 18 hours ago

Killzone 2 doesn't need gamebattles or MLG as it has an excellent in game clan and tournament system.

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hates video games - 107 days 18 hours ago

Gaming is a hobby not a sport. Plus learn a little English next time.

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dustgavin - 107 days 18 hours ago

"Pro Gamers play Cod4 and Halo 3 and Gears 2."

People who enjoy last gen gaming and visuals play Cod4, Halo 3, and Gears 2.

Fixed.

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Monolith - 107 days 18 hours ago

r u serious!

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ZBlacktt - 107 days 16 hours ago

LOL, that's a funny right? I know it must be. COD is the most repetitive online game out now. It's small maps has every player going to the same spots every single game doing the exact same thing over and over. Even with it's small maps and small amount of player's. We all see it lag as well. Like WTH is up with that? Mostly Ground War and the map Bog ( which is a total joke ). Online game is nothing but pure hype. The random nade death is just the worst thing ever ( player's just tossing 3 nades in the air in your color dot map location ) because the maps are so small. Or you've only got a few choices to run through the maps. Aim assist? Your kidding right? Martyrdom perk? A joke right? This is like online playing 101 for beginners. The leveling up to 55 over and over and over is just total boring after the 4th,5th time.

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hates video games - 107 days 18 hours ago

I cant stand when people consider it a sport. Sports have to have some sort of physical activity to actually be considered a sport. Gaming is a hobby period!

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Saaking - 107 days 18 hours ago

Exactly. These type of gaming competitions isn't about who really is the best, it's about who's faster and better responsiveness. You don't need to train for it, or go through rigorous training, you just need to be faster. I laugh at people who try to pass this off as a "sport"

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Mooey - 107 days 18 hours ago

The only pro games that should be in pro games are the Counter-Strike and Unreal games. Those are the only real games that require MONTHS of practice daily to even think about getting in.

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2good4u2 - 107 days 10 hours ago

MLG a joke? because they play halo, gears and cod as their flagship games of course. halo is the most skilled shooter out there. other games are just some center of mass spraying, halo = 4 headshots in row.
COD and killzone are the easy wins here.

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cyborg6971 - 107 days 10 hours ago

Your out of your mind and obviously have never played KZ2 to think halo takes skill. If you truly think that pm me your psn id and I'll show you how unskilled you are.

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2good4u2 - 107 days 9 hours ago

the first time i played killzone i did like the first 2-4 campaign levels and then hopped into multiplayer. i hate the PS3 controller and i was still strugling a lot with the controlls and i was MVP! killzone is some easy, center-of-mass, few hits kill shooter made a little bit more 'skilled' by making the controls harder.

i don't have a PS3 but you can give me your XBL gamertag and i show you how skilled halo is and how unskilled you are.

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2900d4u - 107 days 9 hours ago

Give one valid reason why halo doesn't take skill.

In halo you shoot 3-round bursts (with the default weapon in MLG). You have to headshot someone 4 times while hitting every single round to kill him. It takes quick reflexes and a perfect aim. In killzone you spray someone for a second and he's dead. It's more who sees who first.

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cyborg6971 - 107 days 9 hours ago

The huge amount of aim assist hows that 2900? Every time I play any cod or any halo my crosshairs are always pulling to and locking on a target. I notice none of this in Klz2. And I love all of them cod (Except the big red one.) All 3 halo's. And killzone 2. Not killzone one as much. Starwars battlefront 1 not sure about two let you take auto aim off in MP Loved that series. And I agree with you 2900 it's who see who first but that's with every FPS.

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2good4u2 - 106 days 23 hours ago

i agree, but i don't have that with halo. in halo the more skilled people can easily out-br someone (as that's called in halo) it's mostly whoever misses one of the 4/5 headshots is dead in the more skilled games. halo is MLG's flagship game for a reason.

BTW, where's saaking GT?

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Saaking - 107 days 18 hours ago

Why would I want an overpriced heater with less exclusives,no wifi, no HDD (arcade version), last gen hardware, extreme unreliability, last gen dvd, battery controllers, not capable of true 1080p etc, etc.

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Monolith - 107 days 18 hours ago

again r u serious

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ZBlacktt - 107 days 16 hours ago

Let see smart guy?

Worst reliable console in gaming history ( yet you bought it ).

No Wi-Fi

No Blu-ray, old DVD drive

No Game of the Years and DVD will never have one

Scratches game disc's

Sounds like a helicopter when in use

How do you live with these facts every single day? At any time any PS3 owner could have bought down to the always "cheaper" console. But with a 54% failure rate. I think they have a brain. Anything worth playing on that junk console is multi format. So what's the point in buying junk? Really? It's such junk, old and last gen. Someone like yourself who backs that piece of junk really only shows your intelligence and financial picture.

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2good4u2 - 107 days 10 hours ago

nice list. 1 legit argument in there that doesn't even matter to me.

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dustgavin - 107 days 18 hours ago

Yea....avatars, twitter, and paying for online service is SOOOO hardcore.

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Marquis_de_Sade - 107 days 18 hours ago

Cool story bro

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Monolith - 107 days 18 hours ago

seriously ur retarded

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dustgavin - 107 days 18 hours ago

"Oh and Dvd blows Blu Ray away in games and give me a break in movies because NetFlix and Zune owns ur stupid overpriced Blu Rays..."

I can picture you standing on your Hd-dvd player like it is a soap box saying all this.

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Monolith - 107 days 18 hours ago

this guy is a joke, he thinks blu-ray sucks and dvd is better, thats effn mind boggling

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2good4u2 - 107 days 10 hours ago

Where are the tons of droids from this site in that list?

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topdawg122 - 107 days 15 hours ago

Yeah they are for the hardcore, thanks for admitting that

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likedamaster - 107 days 14 hours ago

I see what you did there Soda. Most people know a turd when they play one.

Turd, n.

1. A piece of excrement originating from a Developer by means of defecation.

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